Computer Privacy Digest Fri, 08 Jul 94 Volume 5 : Issue: 002
Today's Topics: Moderator: Leonard P. Levine
Video cameras in City Centres
IRS SSN risks may abate
Re: Question About CallerID
Re: Question About CallerID
Re: Question About CallerID
Re: Question About CallerID
Re: Question About CallerID
Re: Question About CallerID
Re: Physical Location via Cell Phone
Re: Get Your Files & More
What's a Cop to Do?
The Computer Privacy Digest is a forum for discussion on the effect
of technology on privacy. The digest is moderated and gatewayed into
the USENET newsgroup comp.society.privacy (Moderated). Submissions
should be sent to comp-privacy@uwm.edu and administrative requests
to comp-privacy-request@uwm.edu. Back issues are available via
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with password "yourid@yoursite". The archives are in the directory
"pub/comp-privacy". Archives are also held at ftp.pica.army.mil
[129.139.160.133].
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From: "Prof. L. P. Levine" <levine@blatz.cs.uwm.edu>
Date: 08 Jul 1994 11:16:54 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Video cameras in City Centres
Organization: University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
from Risks-Forum Digests (16:20,21) Forum on Risks to the Public in
Computers and Related Systems ACM Committee on Computers and Public
Policy, Peter G. Neumann, moderator
From: "Scott A. McIntyre" <scott@shrug.org>
Date: 06 Jul 1994 11:50:25 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Video cameras in City Centres
In a report on the BBC last night (Tue July 5, 1994) the merits and
RISKS of the recent installation of a city centre wide television
monitoring system in Liverpool was discussed.
After the abduction and murder of James Bulger a year or so ago, most
of the residents of Liverpool were all in favour of having their
movements monitored by the bank of high resolution cameras, covering
all streets in the main centre of town.
A private company is in charge of the system, but the police (both
local, and as the report suggested, national) have instant access to
any of the camera views. There was some discussion as to the dangers
of companies, organisations, and even the government obtaining access
to these tapes to discover who shops where, buys what, etc; yet by and
large people seemed willing to allow Big Brother to move in to combat
crime and make the streets safer.
The RISKS are obvious. With enough crime, poverty, social decay,
people may be willing to assign away all personal freedom in the
perhaps futile attempt to recover the lost days of leaving your front
door open and unlocked, and your car window rolled down whilst you
shop.
------------------------------
From: Robert.Allen@eng.sun.com (Robert Allen)
Date: 06 Jul 1994 20:24:40 GMT
Subject: Re: Video cameras in City Centres (RISKS-16.20)
An interesting report. Even more interesting to me because I first
read about the efforts to instrument society w/ video cameras in a
comic book about 5 years ago, and the comic had been written at least
10 years ago. For those interested in seeking it out, the comic was a
limited series (perhaps 10 issues) called V for Vendetta. It was
written by an English author (I believe it was Alan Moore) who had a 1
page editorial in one of the issues wherein he decried the slide of
English society into what he saw as facism. In his preface he wrote
that he hoped to get himself and his family out of England as soon as
possible because of what he saw happening to society. I believe he
specifically mentioned TV cameras on street corners, and these were
definitely central to the story. They also had audio pickup
capability, and vandalizing them was a capital crime. The story dealt
with how the English gov't became facist after a 3rd world war. "V" is
a lone hero (?) who bucks the system, assassinating various gov't
figures, with an ending I won't spoil for you.
Life imitates art. The complete series is available at any decent
comic book store (check your yellow pages) or even a large book store,
in bound, graphic novel format.
------------------------------
From: "Prof. L. P. Levine" <levine@blatz.cs.uwm.edu>
Date: 08 Jul 1994 11:17:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: IRS SSN risks may abate
Organization: University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
from Risks-Forum Digest (16:21) Forum on Risks to the Public in
Computers and Related Systems ACM Committee on Computers and Public
Policy, Peter G. Neumann, moderator
From: gerlek@cse.ogi.edu (Michael Gerlek)
Date: 06 Jul 94 13:13 PDT
Subject: IRS SSN risks may abate
from the Wall Street Journal, 6 Jul 94 (pg A1, col 5):
IRS officials are considering removing Social Security numbers from
the mailing labels taxpayers stick on their returns. The reason:
"Some concerns about privacy," an IRS spokesman says.
-[mpg] gerlek@cse.ogi.edu
[Good news! I raised that topic along with some related problems raised
by RISKS readers (such as the amount of the check peeking through the
envelope window) at my IRS Commissioner's Advisory Group meeting in DC
three weeks ago. I'm delighted to see a speedy reaction! PGN]
------------------------------
From: bernie@fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell)
Date: 03 Jul 1994 02:02:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Question About CallerID
Organization: Fantasy Farm, Pearisburg, VA
"J. Shickel" writes: Does 'Caller ID' return the telephone number
of callers with unlisted numbers?
I think it may vary by region, but the folks served by Bell Atlantic
are told:
{\bf Note}: If you are in an equipped area and you call someone
within your Bell Atlantic Regional Calling Area who has {\bf Caller
ID}, your number will be shown on their display unit even if you do
not have the service and even if your number is {\bf non-published}
or {\bf non-listed}.
--
Bernie Cosell bernie@fantasyfarm.com
Fantasy Farm Fibers, Pearisburg, VA (703) 921-2358
------------------------------
From: kadokev@rci.ripco.com (Kevin Kadow)
Date: 03 Jul 1994 00:27:26 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Question About CallerID
"J. Shickel" writes: Does 'Caller ID' return the telephone number
of callers with unlisted numbers?
At least in Chicago, not only will Caller ID give the number, but CID
with name gives the name for any caller, listed or unlisted, who
they've got around to entering into their database- unfortunately the
database seems to be consistently a few months behind reality.
--
kadokev@ripco.com Kevin Kadow
FREE Usenet/Mail, inexpensive Internet - Ripco... Wearing white hats since 1983
Dialup:(312) 665-0065|Gopher:gopher.ripco.com|Telnet:foley.ripco.com ('info')
------------------------------
From: aa996@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Francoys Crepeau)
Date: 06 Jul 1994 17:54:03 GMT
Subject: Re: Question About CallerID
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
"J. Shickel" writes: Does 'Caller ID' return the telephone number
of callers with unlisted numbers?
Yup! It'll even display most long-distance numbers! However, the
number will be displayed as unavailable under some conditions, such as:
caller routed thru a PBX, caller in an exchange with old switching
equipment, etc.
Also, the phone company will (in Canada, at least) make available to
you, upon request (and at no charge) the option of preceding your call
with *67 (different on rotary), which will make the receiving party's
call display show "PRIVATE #". This was in response to people bitching
about their inability to make calls while still keeping their unlisted
number unlisted.
Because of the great number of non-technologically-inclined people
around, I still get the occasional "How did you get my unlisted
number????" reactions when I return some people's calls when they
haven't even left any msg.
I am curious as to what the situation is outside Canada for caller-id,
call-return and these other bells and whistles...
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
| Francoys Crepeau, Ottawa, Canada (613) 565-7198 (VOICE) |
| aa996@freenet.carleton.ca (613) 565-7199 (FAX) |
---------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: dunn@nlm.nih.gov (Joe Dunn, MSD)
Date: 06 Jul 94 20:44:27 GMT
Subject: Re: Question About CallerID
Organization: National Library of Medicine
"J. Shickel" writes: Does 'Caller ID' return the telephone number
of callers with unlisted numbers?
This is the primary reason for all the legal challanges to the caller
id service. People who have unlisted numbers would be giving out their
numbers unless there is a mechanism of blocking the number.
A big advantage of having per id blocking on a call by call basis is
that it would be prohibitively expensive for a telemarketing company to
block their number. People could then stop answering calls from them
when they see the number. Downside is that if you had an unlisted
number you would have dial extra numbers for every call to block your
number going out.
The other solution is line blocking, in which all calls have the id
blocked. Downside: what if you had to call 911 and the number was
blocked because you forgot to dial the extra numbers to send your
number. And telemarkters would pay a one time fee to block the number
so you would be in the same boat you are now. Pick up phone, listen to
pitch, hang-up rudely...
Another problem is, calling an 800 number. The courts have ruled since
the company with the 800 number is paying for the call they own the
call and have the right to getting your number. So, how do you handle
not giving out your unlisted number when you call an 800 number, even
when you pay to have your number blocked??
------------------------------
From: Wendy Resnik <alresnik@delphi.com>
Date: 06 Jul 94 19:14:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Question About CallerID
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
"J. Shickel" writes: Does 'Caller ID' return the telephone number
of callers with unlisted numbers?
I think it depends on what state you are in. In many states, including
Wisconsin where I live, unlisted and unpublished numbers are displayed
with Caller ID. Unpublished/unlisted numbers are unrelated to Caller ID
in the sense that when you pay for this you are paying not to be in the
directory and/or not to have your number given out by Information.
Some poeple assume that unpublished means it doesn't display on Caller
ID b, but it ain't so.
------------------------------
From: markm@kgw2.xetron.com (Mark Malson)
Date: 08 Jul 1994 03:23:07 GMT
Subject: Re: Question About CallerID
Organization: Xetron Corporation
"J. Shickel" writes: Does 'Caller ID' return the telephone number
of callers with unlisted numbers?
Depends. I had an unlisted number here in Cincinnati, and I was told
that when we got Caller ID, my number would squawk "PRIVATE". Well,
were we surprised when my wife called my sister-in-law and she
answered, "Hello, Karla." Our number _was_ being sent to Caller ID
boxes. I called the phone company and they told me that I had to
specifically ASK them to not transmit my number, even though my number
is unlisted. I then ASKED them to do it, and they informed me that
there would be a $6.00 service charge! I told them that I had been
paying extra for privacy that I was told I would have yet did not, and
now they want to soak me for more to get what I should have had in the
first place! I asked for her supervisor who was apparently pretty
busy, so she just went ahead and waived the fee.
The bottom line is, you have to ASK for it, even if your number is
unlisted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------\
Mark D. Malson \ A Devil's Dictionary for Democrats: \
Xetron Corporation \ \
460 W. Crescentville Rd. \ affordable (adj.) - Of or regarding debts due \
Cincinnati, Ohio 45246 \ after the elections eight years hence. \
markm@xetron.com \
\
----------------------------------------------------------------------------!
------------------------------
From: dcrawfo2@mason1.gmu.edu (Daniel C Crawford)
Date: 02 Jul 1994 09:01:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Physical Location via Cell Phone
Organization: University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
And as the cells get smaller, the location detail gets better.
What will happen when we have micro-cellular phones, a cell for
every building, or even a cell for every office! Think about the
level of personal tracking that can be done with this level of
detail!
The size of the cell does not matter since the location, direction and
speed of travel can be mathematically figured using triangulation of
the three closest cell sites.
PS> I reply since my current mailer doesn't easily do Follow-Ups but
you are welcome to use this information in the forum.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Charles Crawford || "Run my name through your computer ..
dcrawfo2@gmu.edu || Pore over everything in my C.V. ...
703-406-2243 || And you'll still know nothing 'bout me" Sting
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: palbert@netcom.com (Phil Albert)
Date: 02 Jul 1994 23:03:12 GMT
Subject: Re: Get Your Files & More
Organization: Disorganized
glr@ripco.com (Glen Roberts) writes: Directory of Fax on Demand
Documents. To receive any of these, call (708) 356-9646 from your
fax. Follow the prompts and press start when asked to. You'll
immediately receive the information. Please note, document #'s in
the 600s and 900s are strictly informative in nature.
Maybe I'm missing something. If I call this number, listen and respond
to the Automatic Response Unit, which converts DTMF signals to commands
for an automated faxing system, I can receive documents by fax? For
this to work, the documents must be on-line. Why can't I get them
on-line via e-mail, ftp, gopher, www, etc.? Isn't that easier, and
much cheaper?
------------------------------
From: patchman@netcom.com (J. Patrick Henry)
Date: 05 Jul 1994 19:53:03 GMT
Subject: What's a Cop to Do?
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Greetings Cyberati,
My question regarding the Clipper is this: If a law enforcement
official suspects illegal activity behind electronic enemy lines, what
would he/she do for surveillance if he/she didn't have the Clipper?
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End of Computer Privacy Digest V5 #002
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