From editor@telecom-digest.org  Fri Jul  9 00:20:03 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA07285;
	Fri, 9 Jul 1999 00:20:03 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 00:20:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907090420.AAA07285@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #201

TELECOM Digest     Fri, 9 Jul 99 00:19:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 201

Inside This Issue:                          Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Need Help With Phone System Quotes (Dan Simoes)
    Question on Direct Inward Dial (DID) With VSI*Fax UNIX Fax Server (D Star)
    Re: GTE Cellular Tries to Hold Dead Man to Contract (Fred Atkinson)
    Re: FCC Extra Line Charge (Sidney Zafran)
    Re: Horrible Data Connection (Herb Stein)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Steve Uhrig)
    You Believe *67 Works? (Leonid A. Broukhis)
    Calling Number ID vs. Unlisted Numbers (Lauren Weinstein)
    Caller ID & Star-69 (Was: Weird Wrong Number Calls) (Eric Morson)
    Re: Help! I Paid Good Money For These (Steven)
    Re: Want to Stop Caller ID? *67 Can be a Quick Fix (Jason A. Lindquist)
    Re: Request For Local Calling Area Information (David Esan)
    Re: Cell Phone Companies Go by Own Rules (John Nagle)
    Re: Asian Telecoms Search (Rowena C. Macaraig)
    Snooping OK on Pager Numbers? (Monty Solomon)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: danix@cloud9.net (Dan Simoes)
Subject: Need help with phone system quotes
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 16:13:51 GMT
Organization: Cloud 9 Internet, White Plains, NY, USA


Help out a poor unix sysadmin turned IT manager :)

I work for a small software company, with 47 employees, growing to
about 80-100 by next year.  We are moving to a new office space with
18,000 sq ft in the White Plains, NY area.

We have put out RFPs for three things - cabling of the new space, voice
infrastructure, and data network design.

On the phone side (which is where I need the most help), we are getting 
proposals for:

Inter-Tel Axxess
Nortel Option 11C
Nortel Norstar
Siemens HiCom 300E 30P
Lucent Definity Prologix
Lucent Merlin Legend
3Com/NBX (voice over IP)

It seems that this stuff is all pretty similar when you get down to
it, so I'm looking for "been there done that" recommendations.  No
particular needs on our part other than a system that will scale as we
grow.  We have a voice T1 coming in with 8 copper lines as backups.

The 3com/NBX system is very attractive because it is full-featured,
and cutting edge technology.  It's also less than HALF of a comparable
"traditional" PBX from the other vendors.

I'm partial to the Nortel system since that's what we've had at almost
every company I've worked for in the past, but the price is sky high.
The Siemens and Lucent systems are comparably priced, with the
InterTel coming in a bit lower (but I've never heard of them ...)

Any opinions/suggestions are welcome and greatly appreciated.  Again,
this is not my area of expertise and I don't want to make a costly
mistake for this company trying to get off the ground!


Many thanks,

Dan

------------------------------

From: Dan Star <danstar@execpc.com>
Subject: Question on Direct Inward Dial (DID) with VSI*Fax UNIX Fax Server
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 11:44:27 -0500
Organization: ETCO
Reply-To: danstar@execpc.com


Hello,

The company I work for wishes to set up a VSI*Fax UNIX Fax Server that
will automatically route faxes to "fax boxes" for individuals.  For
example, an incoming fax would be inspected by the server and
determined to be for John Smith's fax box and then the server would
route the fax to John Smith's fax box.  Then John Smith could view on
his monitor the fax with out any human intervention in the routing.

To do this it is necessary to have a DID trunk line(s) so that each
person can have his own fax number.  The line would be connected to a
DID-capable faxmodem which is connected to the server via a serial
cable.

My question: what is needed to terminate the DID trunk line besides
the LEC's Network Interface box?  Can we just cable CAT3/5 right to
the DID-capable modem from the Network Interface or do we need some
piece of intervening equipment?


Regards,

Dan

------------------------------

From: Fred Atkinson <fatkinson@loralorion.com>
Subject: Re: GTE Cellular Tries to Hold Dead Man to Contract
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:46:32 -0400 


Pat, 

	This doesn't surprise me at all.  

	There are so many people who look to take advantage of
different folk's death.  When they see the obituaries, a number of
them send bills for goods and services that were never provided or
performed.  In fact, they may have never done business with the
deceased.  So, this person's son or daughter steps in to close out the
bills.  How does he or she know that the bill is a hoax?  The only
person that might have known and could have flagged it is deceased.

	I am 'Fred W. Atkinson, III'.  When my grandfather, 'Fred W.
Atkinson, Sr.' passed away, he had been living in my parents home
where the telephone was listed as 'Fred W. Atkinson (without the
Jr. on the listing).  After we'd returned from the funeral, my dad
(Fred, Jr.) was sitting in the living room and I was in the back of
the house.  My aunt, who was with us for the funeral, came inside and
answered the telephone.

	The operator informed her that 'Fred Atkinson' was at a
payphone and was trying to charge a long distance call to this number.
The operator wanted to know if she'd accept the charges.  Not knowing
I was in the back room, she assumed it was me and accepted.  Five
minutes later I walked into the living room and my aunt shrieked in
surprise.  That's when she told me this story.  As I listened to her,
the telephone rang again.  This time, *I* answered it.  The operator
said that 'Fred Atkinson' was at a payphone and was trying to charge a
long distance call to this number.  She wanted to know if we'd accept.

	I told the operator that we had buried 'Fred Atkinson, Sr.'
this morning, that I had my eyes focused on 'Fred Atkinson, Jr.' and
since I was 'Fred Atkinson, III' and there were no more at this
address, I suspected that whomever was making that call was committing
fraud.  She thanked me and hung up.

	After I flew back home, my mother said she got several more of
these types of calls.  No doubt this person or these persons saw the
obituary, looked up 'Fred Atkinson' in the telephone book, and tried
to charge long distance calls to that number.

	So, watch it when you have a death in the family.  There are
some very unsavory types that would love to take advantage of it.
And, like the slammers and crammers, they come up with some very
resourceful ways of doing it.  They figure that the family is too
grief stricken to catch it or even care.


Fred


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: The most crummy bunch of losers in the
'sell to a dead person' con-game was the company which operated for
more than twenty years starting sometime in the 1930's until they were
put out of business in the late 1950's. By subscribing to several
hundred medium and small town newspapers which were delivered to them
each day, they were able to read the obituary column in each of the
papers and pull their scam. Let's say John Smith died on Monday and
his obituary was in the paper on Tuesday. They'd get the paper by
Wednesday and prepare their product for shipment the same day. Their
product? A very large, ornate 'family Bible' with the deceased's name
in gold engraving on the front imitation leather cover. This was the
style which was very popular for a century or more in the USA, with
a large section in the center colorfully illustrated with maps and
pictures of biblical persons -- as if anyone had the slightest idea
what any of them looked like, but don't let a few little facts get in
the way -- and most important, a section for recording a 'family tree'
and listing the births and deaths of family members. Simulated gold
edges on the paper, etc.

Please recall that during about the first century of our government,
until the late 1800's, birth and death records were not standardized,
nor even required in many states. In order to 'prove' someone's age
or the date of their marriage it was quite common to bring out the
family Bible and review the records therein. Such a 'bible record'
was considered acceptable proof by the US government in those days.

So the company would send out this very lovely, very nicely boxed
family Bible, engraved with the deceased's name **and mail it to the
deceased** knowing the family would see it come in the mail a few
days later, while still in a time of grief for the family, and would
open the package which arrived addressed to dear old grandpa. Inside
an invoice was enclosed with a 'personally written note' which said
something like this, 

      "Dear Mr. Smith, thank you for your order. Your
   Bible is enclosed, and we know you and your family will spend many
   treasured hours reading together from God's Word. Don't forget to
   begin now recording the vital details of your family's life on Earth
   using the family tree forms enclosed in the center. Won't this be
   a wonderful surprise when you present it to your family? As you
   requested, we've said nothing to anyone about your purchase, so you
   can be assured no one in your family knows what you have done. Our
   invoice for *twenty dollars* [my emphasis, 1940-50's money] is en-
   closed, won't you please honor it promptly, that we might continue
   to share the Word of God with others who seek it. Your friends at
   the Bible Publishing Society." 

Well! What do you suppose the family did? Of course they *assumed*
that the old man had ordered it before he died, and not wanting to
disgrace his memory or make his final purchase on credit turn him
into a deadbeat by stiffing the company -- dead and stiff alright --
they would send in the money requested to the company. They'd see it
engraved with his name and realize that returning it would be 'an
inconvenience for the company' and wanting to do the 'right thing'
they paid. 

One woman who was a witness at a hearing convened by a government
agency (not the Federal Trade Commission, but some predecessor of that
agency, I think) told the investigators that 'when I wrote and told
the company I could not afford to pay it all at once, and offered to
return the Bible to them, they wrote me back and told me very nicely
it would be okay to pay in four month installments of five dollars
each, and that they would not charge us any interest as long as our
payment arrived on time each month. I sent them a money order on the
first of each month.'

The scam finally unraveled after years of successful operation when
the 'Bible Publishing Society' (actually just a man and his wife
who bought the Bibles for a couple dollars each and stamped them
up with an engraving tool) made the mistake of sending out an 'order'
to the family of some drunken, hell-raising old fool, himself a con-
artist -- albiet now deceased -- who they knew perfectly well would
never have made such a 'purchase', and went to the postal inspectors.
The government investigators found that about thirty thousand families
had been decieved in this way over approximatly twenty years, so
careful were the man and his wife in selecting the 'right sounding
names' (we don't want to send this to Jews) and 'right looking'
obituaries (was he a church member, active in his community, etc).
They also concentrated on rural, small town communities in the south
and midwestern states, avoiding any place where they suspected the
citizens would likely be more educated. They were caught when a delibe-
ratly bogus obituary of a non-existent person of upstanding character
and Christian conviction was placed in a newspaper and the merchandise
arrived a few days later.
 
Senator Everett Dirkeson of Illinois upon announcing something about
the results of the investigation said 'The more I followed the
testimony given by people who were victimized by the company, the
more my stomach was churning. I think I shall go be sick now ...' 
He added a very witty postscript to it all saying, "I suppose this
will risk me being in violation of the constitutionally mandated
requirement for separation of church and state, and that the
government may not support any establishment of one religion, ahead of
another, however I will say it anyway. There is a special place in Hell
already reserved for those two crooks."  PAT]

------------------------------

From: Sidney Zafran <sidsandy@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: FCC Extra Line Charge
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 10:06:37 -0700
Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc.
Reply-To: szafran@alum.mit.edu


PacBell did the same to me in May. They, however, charged me the wrong
retroactive rate from 4/23/99 forward. I was verbally informed that rate
credit is forthcoming.

"John S. Maddaus" wrote:

> Maybe this is old news, or not news at all, but Bell Atlantic just
> sent me a notice that my monthly charge was increased retroactive to
> January on my second residence line due to an FCC directive allowing
> LECs to charge more for the second line.  Seems odd to me since I have
> not read anything about this in the NG, but then again maybe this was
> old news and they only decided to hit us with it now.  I think it
> amounts to a monthly increase of $3-4.  Seemed a little steep.

> jmaddaus@usa.net

------------------------------

From: herb@herbstein.com (Herb Stein)
Subject: Re: Horrible Data Connection
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 20:00:39 GMT
Organization: newsread.com ISP News Reading Service (http://www.newsread.com)


In article <telecom19.191.8@telecom-digest.org>, Dave O'Shea 
<daveoshea@email.msn.com> wrote:

> Heather Drury <heather@v1.wustl.edu> wrote in message news:telecom19.
> 187.13@telecom-digest.org:

>> We have just moved into a new house (new for us) and are doing battle
>> with Southwestern Bell over our data connection.  Basically, sometimes
>> it works, sometimes it doesn't and SWBT insists there is no problem.

> Oh, I feel your pain!

I have somewhat better luck in the Manchester area. But then I
cheated. I retired from SWBT 2 years ago. But Dave is probably right
about moisture. Big problem in the undergound cables. I eventually
went to ISDN.

> I finally broke down and got ISDN service - $172.00 per month. Ouch.

My current ISDN bill is $130 plus or minus. I think that's abount $90
for the BRI and $11 for the ability to dynamically bond the 2 B
channels together into a 128K connection and still be able to use the
lines for voice. Who knows what the other $30 is. Since I also use one
of the B channels as a business line, I bought an Ascend Pipeline P75
ISDN router to terminate the line ($600 - ouch!). 

I've not looked at the ADSL pricing yet, but I've heard it's about the
same as ISDN. More bandwidth though. I have asked about a bandwidth
guarantee and not heard back yet. Since I provide hosting services


Herb Stein
The Herb Stein Group
www.herbstein.com
herb@herbstein.com
314 215-3584

------------------------------

From: Steve Uhrig <suhrig@bright.net>
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 12:56:40 -0400
Organization: bright.net Ohio


Steven Lichter wrote:

> Here is a good one. Pacific Bell switchroom telephones are blocked by
> default. I found that out when I had to call home while working in
> one, my phone blocks anything without CID.

	Probably for good reason. I keep all of our switch room phones
blocked also. If you call a customer with the CID on, they think they
now have a personal phone number to report their problems to. I get
enough phone calls each day without having customers calling in
wanting to report their problems to me instead of the 800 reporting
number.

------------------------------

From: leob@best.com (Leonid A. Broukhis)
Subject: You Believe *67 Works?
Date: 08 Jul 1999 17:09:50 GMT


A popular belief says that if one dials *67 and then calls a regular
phone number, the caller will be identified as "private", "anonymous",
etc. Not so with the phone numbers provided by www.webley.com
(312-416-xxxx).  They will report the caller ID info to the subscriber
even if the caller has dialed *67.

Is it a violation of any regulations, or does it mean that, generally
speaking, there is no way to ensure privacy when calling a regular
phone number?


Leo

[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: If what you are saying is true, and
not just some fluke occurance because of a technical problem, I
think it is a terrible invasion of privacy. Have you reported it?   PAT]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 99 10:17 PDT
From: lauren@vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: Calling Number ID vs. Unlisted Numbers


Greetings.  Contrary to what was stated in a recent piece excerpted
from the L.A. Times on this topic seen in a recent TELECOM digest,
there is in general no direct, default relationship between unlisted
numbers and Calling Number ID blocking status.  Even here in
California, where per-line CNID blocking is available, you don't just
get it automatically when you have an unlisted number -- you have to
ask for it.  It would certainly have seemed logical for unlisted
numbers to have CNID blocking by default, and attempts were made to
mandate this setting, but they were not adopted.

So just because you have an unlisted number, don't assume you have
Calling Number ID blocking!


 --Lauren--
Lauren Weinstein
lauren@vortex.com
Moderator, PRIVACY Forum --- http://www.vortex.com
Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy
Host, "Vortex Daily Reality Report & Unreality Trivia Quiz"
  --- http://www.vortex.com/reality

------------------------------

From: Eric@AreaCode-Info.com (Eric Morson)
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:58:50 -0400
Subject: Caller ID & Star-69 (Was: Weird Wrong Number Calls)


> I think that caller ID would not help since *69 uses the same
> mechanism for retrieving the number. You would get an "unavailable"
> from caller ID as well. If I'm wrong about that, someone please 
> let me know.

That is incorrect.

Star-69 will work if the call came from a number serviced by your local
provider. A cellular number, T1, trunk line, etc, will not work even if
the number is local.

Even though caller ID may show a number from WAY out of state, it may or
may not work with Star-69.


Eric B. Morson
Co-Webmaster
AreaCode-Info.com

EMail: Eric@AreaCode-Info.com

------------------------------

From: steven@primacomputer.com (Steven)
Subject: Re: Help! I Paid Good Money For These
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 08:02:08 +0800
Organization: Prima Computer


Sorry, Docomo is digital 800, which is a Japanese system compleetly 
incomparable with the GSM 900 (possibly a few 1800 cells) in the PI.


Steven

In article <telecom19.193.6@telecom-digest.org>, wengmacaraig@
hotmail.com says:


>       I know that I shouldn't  bother you with this but I don't know
> anyone who can help me.

>       I am from the Philippines. A Japanese who came to my country
> sold me some Japan made cell phones (DoCoMo & Kyocera). When I brought
> the units to a mobile sevice provider, I was told that Japan uses a
> different system which is not being used in my country. Our technicians
> are not familiar with the Japanese system and the frequency they are
> using. Is there a way to convert Japanese standard cellphones to
> function in my country? We are able to use all US and European cellphones. 

>       I paid good, hard earned money for those phones.  I was hoping to
> go into business and sell them here in my country. Can you help me? If
> you cannot, perhaps you can refer me to someone who can.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:02:45 -0500
From: Jason A. Lindquist <jlindqui@constitution.isdn.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: Jason Lindquist <linky@see.figure1.net>
Subject: Re: Want to Stop Caller ID? *67 Can be a Quick Fix


In Usenet comp.dcom.telecom, newsgroup moderator said:

> And see if you can force privacy to
> stay in effect on calls you forward, and if the switch forwards *your*
> number on call forwarding or the *true number* of the person calling. PAT]

I was curious about this myself, and gave it a try (though without
*67.)  If I set my home (PacHell) phone to forward to one of my cell
phones (Airtouch and Sprint PCS,) the inbound caller's number does
show up on the cellphone's CNID display.


Jason Lindquist  <*>     "Mostly though, I think it gave us hope, 
linky@see.figure1.net     That there can always be a new beginning.
KB9LCL                    Even for people like us."
                            -- Gen. Susan Ivanova, B5, "Sleeping In Light"

------------------------------

From: davidesan@my-deja.com  (David Esan)
Subject: Re: Request For Local Calling Area Information
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 20:11:34 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


I don't really want to be a doom sayer, but this project, particularly
as proposed, is doomed to failure.

There are about 22,000 distinct localities in the NANP (that is places
with distinct V&H coordinates).  Many locations have hundreds of
exchanges that are considered local.  New York and Chicago have
thousands.  Consider New York City -- calls that I would define as
local are all the exchanges in LATA 132.  This includes area codes
212, 516, 718, 917, part of 914, and the new area codes 646 and 347.
That's a lot of information!  And consider that you would have to have
entries for each locality in the New York area.  Try the 300 different
localities in Chicago.

Veramark does call accounting.  Maintaining a database of local
calling areas is part of what we do.  It is also one of the most
problematic areas that we have.  The NANP is averaging 2000 new
exchanges and three new area codes a month.  How are you going to
maintain your database?

As noted elsewhere this does not include the various expand and
contracted local plans.  Florida sites often have the choice of three
plans.  Then you have those places where you can buy various expanded
calling plans for a few dollars more.  I won't even get into the
various plans available in Louisiana, plans that seem to change by
town, parish, day, and who is bribing whom that week (sorry Mark!).

BTW, when we can't find the information in tariffs, and we can't get
it from the local telephone company (its a secret you know), we have
to pay a service to provide us with the information.  If you can
provide it for free, that would be wonderful. :-).


David Esan
Veramark Technologies
desan@veramark.com

------------------------------

From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle)
Subject: Re: Cell Phone Companies Go by Own Rules
Date: 8 Jul 1999 17:36:52 GMT
Organization: Netcom


Mike Pollock <pheel@sprynet.com> writes:

> NEW YORK (AP) - Whether it's local or long distance, home phone or pay
> phone, it's understood: A call starts with ``hello.'' If there's no
> answer, there's no charge.

    By international agreement, toll billing begins at the point the
connection goes bidirectional.  But apparently this doesn't apply to
cellular.


John Nagle

------------------------------

From: Rowena C. Macaraig <wengmacaraig@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:  Asian Telecoms Search
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 01:51:26 -0700


I have a listing of all GSM operators all over the world, including
web site addresses of some. If you think they 'd be useful , I'd be
glad to email them to you.


Weng


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: People who want this can write direct
to Weng for a copy.   PAT]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:32:47 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers?


by Declan McCullagh

3:00 a.m.  7.Jul.99.PDT

WASHINGTON -- Police can easily "eavesdrop" on pagers if a bill
approved by the US Senate becomes law.

The bill says law enforcement officials can monitor all messages sent
to targeted pagers without having to convince a judge that the
information can be found only in that way.

"Congress is trying to do an end run around the Constitution and gut
the privacy of millions of pager owners," said David Banisar, author
of The Electronic Privacy Papers.


http://www.wired.com/news/politics/story/20597.html

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #201
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Fri Jul  9 03:49:10 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA13449;
	Fri, 9 Jul 1999 03:49:10 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 03:49:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907090749.DAA13449@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #202

TELECOM Digest     Fri, 9 Jul 99 03:49:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 202

Inside This Issue:                          Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Jurassic Telecommunications, Part I (Donald E. Kimberlin)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Michael David Jones)
    Multiple Location Cell, Landline & Long Distance Service (D. Snow)
    Re: Horrible Data Connection (Ray Sanders)
    Re: Rotary Dial Telephone (Ray Sanders)
    Re: VoiceNet Calling Card Experiences Wanted (Julian Thomas)
    Asian Telecom Search (kho@ph.ibm.com)
    Re: Selective Call Screening (Heywood Jaiblomi)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 19:22:13 -0400
From: Donald E. Kimberlin <dkimberlin@prodigy.net>
Subject: Jurassic Telecommunications, Part I


Jurassic Telecommunications, Part I

     This is the first in a series about the beginnings of what we
today so casually take as Telecommunications.  Reaching back into
those late Victorian and Edwardian era times before the world had
electronics, the first developers were forced to accomplish their
feats with unwieldy, often heavily mechanical methods one could as
easily credit to Jules Verne.  While a large part of these methods
have become obsolete, it is amazing to consider what those first
contributors to telecommunications did accomplish.  At the same time,
seeing their methods reveals some delightfully simple ways of
understanding how the patchwork of today's technology operates and how
to manage it.

Valdemar Poulsen - The Doctor Frankenstein of Telecommunications?

Poulsen is perhaps best known for his other major contribution to the
art of telecommunications, a literal fire-breathing monster that
functioned as a radio transmitter. That story, however, stands quite
apart from one that more closely parallels Mary Shelly's tragic hero.

If the immortality we hope for really exists, then it follows there is
likely a collegium of archangels or a pantheon of gods of man's higher
accomplishments.  Valdemar Poulsen rightly deserves a place in such a
group for his contributions to man's shrinking of time and space; to
man's increase of social intercourse, and thus, one would hope, the
furtherance of peace and harmony in the world today.

However, one of Poulsen's major contributions has had its dark sides
as well as its benefits.

The first notion of recording sound by magnetic means seems to have
been stimulated rather early in Thomas Edison's spew of development
around 1880.

Then-prominent American mechanical engineer Oberlin Smith, after a
visit to Edison's Menlo Park, NJ laboratory, filed an 1878 patent
caveat that was never followed up. It described the notion of
recording electrical signals produced by a telephone onto a steel
wire.

While investigating ways in which speech might be recorded, Edison;s
assistant Sumner Tainter noted on March 20, 1881; "A fountain-pen is
attached to a diaphragm so as to be vibrated in a plane parallel to
the axis of a cylinder. The ink used in this pen to contain iron in a
finely divided state, and the pen caused to trace a spiral line round
the cylinder as it is turned. The cylinder to be covered with a sheet
of paper upon which the record is made."  (1)

It's interesting that had the Edison team followed this route and
succeeded, the world may have had postally mailable recordings on
paper sheets a hundred years ago.  Rather, however, developments
focused on purely mechanical means to record and play back sound.  Not
yet having any of the electronics necessary to amplify the weak
magnetic signals or to prepare the magnetic medium by biasing it,
mechanical recording certainly would have been seen as the only
practical method of the era. From the Edison notebooks, it seems that
idea lay fallow for almost two decades.

Oberlin Smith decided in 1888 that he would not pursue his idea. He
"donated" it to the public by publishing his ideas about magnetic
recording in the journal Electrical World.  (2) This publication may
have caught the interest of Poulsen, who after all, had attended the
university at which earlier Danish physicist Hans Oersted made the
connection between electricity and magnetism in 1820.  By 1893, then
24- year-old Poulsen was working for the Copenhagen Telephone Company.

Poulsen attacked a point about magnetic recording that Edison had not
addressed -- the matter of how to play back a magnetically recorded
message.  He found that, indeed, Faraday's principle of magnetic
induction would operate to make a magnetic recording playable.
Poulsen's first demonstration device was simply a steel chisel edge
along which he moved a small pickup coil.  He sidestepped a suggestion
by Smith of using cotton thread impregnated with iron powder,
advancing directly to a wire suspended across a room. He mounted the
record/pickup coil on a moving trolley.


To achieve a compact and portable device for his patent application,
Poulsen had by 1898 formed the wire into a drum-like vertical
coil. This was rotated with a crank to cause the wire to pass under a
fixed record/pickup coil assembly, as shown here. (3)

 Poulsen's earliest patent papers showed he was aware that tape was a
practical option to wire. It was not until later designers attempted
to store steel wire on reels that wire twisting became an irritating
source of high audio frequency loss. That change was not to ensue
until around 1928, when Germans working for AEG and BASF addressed the
Edisonian notion of applying iron power to a paper (by now paper tape)
backing. This created the Magnetophon tape recorders used in German
broadcasting until their discovery by American Jack Mullin at the end
of WW2.

But, back to Poulsen and his first development.  At the outset, his
Telegraphone was intended to store either analog speech or digital
Morse telegraph signals. Poulsen's original Danish patent application
indicated his Telegraphone was intended for use to answer unattended
telephone lines and record messages for later playback.

Thus, we see that Valdemar Poulsen's first plan for his development
was to provide Copenhagen Telephone Company with central office based
voice mail, which of course, has a parallel in the telephone answering
machine and other forms of voice mail we now encounter daily.  Much is
made by persons in the recording industry of Poulsen inventing
magnetic recording, but little or nothing is said of the often
frustrating other outcome of his work!

It would appear, however, that the world little appreciated Poulsen's
breakthrough at the outset.  He took it to the Paris Exposition of
1900, there paralleling a promotional device used by Alexander Graham
Bell a quarter-century earlier.  Just as Bell managed to get the
Emperor of Brazil to exclaim interestedly that a telephone worked (in
Philadelphia in 1878), Poulsen snagged Emperor Franz Joseph of Austria
into a demonstration of recorded voice on the Telegraphone. Based on
that royal attention, the Telegraphone was described in glowing terms
by the technical and scientific press as superior to the phonograph
and a great advance in physics as well. It won Poulsen a gold medal,
but not business success.

Poulsen obtained patents on his Telegraphone in a number of nations,
and even founded an American Telegraphone Company in 1903, with a
manufacturing plant in Wheeling, West Virginia.  Efforts to market the
Telegraphone as a business office dictation machine met with little
success, but a number of Telegraphones were marketed to railroads
through Western Union Telegraph as recording devices for Morse
telegraph messages. Correspondence in the Lemuelson Collection of
Western Union at the Smithsonian Institution attests to use of
Telegraphones on the P. and R. railroad, the Northern Pacific
railroad, the L. and N. and the D. and H. railroads.

One can surmise the Telegraphone drew AT&T's attention, as a version
was offered that could answer an unattended telephone - even in 1903!
American Telegraphone moved to Springfield, Massachusetts in 1910,
then went into bankruptcy receivership in 1918, never to emerge; only
to finally close in 1944 following Poulsen's 1942 death.

Other interests, however, benefited and prevailed from Poulsen's
original concepts, even during his firm's bankruptcy.  Not the least
was AT&T, which for reasons not completely published, began delving
into magnetic recording in 1930. Bell Telephone Laboratories initiated
a major research effort in magnetic tape recording under the direction
of Clarence N. Hickman. By 1931, prototypes designs were made for a
steel tape telephone answering machine, a central-office message
announcer, an endless loop voice-training machine, and a portable,
reel-to-reel recorder for general purpose sound recording. None were
said to enter production except for the voice trainer, which failed in
the marketplace. AT&T's official policy on telephone recording devices
was that they would not be allowed on public telephone lines. (4)

The steel tape ramification of magnetic recording seems to have been
of particular interest to AT&T. Although their interest in magnetic
recording was declared not an AT&T business objective, I personally
saw steel tape playback units used in AT&T's overseas radio station
for Miami at Fort Lauderdale, Florida.  In that use, vertical steel
tapes ran in a glass-enclosed cabinet about 6 feet high over flat
brass rollers to endlessly play back the message heard by so many on
HF radio over the years, This is a test transmission from a station of
The American Telephone and Telegraph Company.  This station is located
near Miami, Florida.

Similar messages emanated from plants near New York and San Francisco
for decades. ostensibly from those Telegraphone-like steel tapes.
Obviously, by the 1960's, the later developments by Armour (since
Marvin Camras' work in 1939), Brush and Ampex interests were
mushrooming so as to overshadow any remembrance of the start Poulsen
gave to the recording art.

Along the way, however, there was a heinous incident in which
Poulsen's conception figured.  At the Telefunken radio long wave radio
stations built around 1910 at Tuckerton, New Jersey and Sayville, New
York, Telegraphones were found useful for first recording Morse radio
messages at normal speed, then transmitting them at high speed on the
radio link so as to gain throughput on their expensive, gargantuan
international radio links to Germany.

It just so happened that by 1915 Telegraphone-originated high speed
transmissions raised the curiosity of radio experimenter Charles Adgar
in New Jersey when WW1 was still a European war. Adgar, when one day
playing back recordings of the US - German link, had the spring wind
down on his Edison machine. Messages from Sayville became
readable. One of them was a copy of the infamous 'Zimmerman letter',
in which the German Foreign Minister encouraged Mexico to attack the
United States, to divert attention from the European war. The final
straw was the message on May 7, 1915 telling German submarine U-39 to
'get Lucy', ordering the sinking of the passenger ship Lusitania.

On intercepting that message, the US Navy immediately seized the
Sayville and Tuckerton plants of Telefunken, ultimately expropriating
them after the war. Finally, when GE and Westinghouse joint ventured
the Radio Corporation of America, the new RCA was given them as part
of reparations for the war.  Poulsen, who obviously knew of his
machine's involvement in that action, may indeed have felt like our
tragic hero, Doctor Frankenstein.

Want to know more? Here are some references and websites with related
information:

(1) http://www.dmg.co.uk/ibex/museum/25years_a.htm

(2) 'Some possible forms of phonograph' by Oberlin Smith,
The Electrical World, September 8th 1888.

(3) Danish Patent 1,260, Valdemar Poulsen, 1898.
http://www.cinemedia.net/SFCV-RMIT-
Annex/rnaughton/POULSEN_BIO.html

(4) http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~dmorton/mrchrono.html
http://www.asb.com/usr/w2g3zfj/lusit.htm
http://www.asb.com/usr/w2g3zfj/fliwh1/hiscom.htm


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: If you were reading this Digest several
years ago, you will recall that Donald Kimberlin was a very frequent
contributor; then he just sort of dropped out of sight. I hope that 
the above means we are going to be hearing from him again on a regular
basis. Of course his article above will receive permanent placement
in the Telecom Archives at http://telecom-digest.org/archives/history
very shortly.  Welcome back, Don!    PAT]

------------------------------

From: jonesm2@rpi.edu (Michael David Jones)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: 8 Jul 1999 16:33:12 -0400
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY, USA


steve@sellcom.com (Steve Winter) writes:

> TELECOM Digest Editor wrote to Gregory L. Abbott saying something like:

>> there are still some dreadful problems with lack of security and
>> the casual handling of personal information. I do not think credit
>> card ordering on the net is safe at all; there are lots of problems
>> with that. I would never want to use my credit card on the net on
>> any regular basis and/or tie it in with my name and address.

> But, Pat, would you then not take that same credit card and hand
> it to a minimum wage employee in some store (or over the phone)?
> Credit card companies have a lot of procedures in place to protect
> cardholders.   What are you afraid might happen (that would not
> be refunded to you if fraud became evident)?

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: In an actual, physical store setting,
> there are several safety features available, regardless of the wages
> paid to the clerk or the clerk's own ethical standards of behavior.
> For starters, I can notice if two charges slips instead of one happen
> to be 'accidentally' imprinted, and call the clerk's attention to it.
> Which is not to say I cannot get my money back later, its just easier
> for someone who is on a limited income and budget like myself to not
> have to take that extra step at a later time. On the net, if someone
> is 'sniffing' for credit cards, it is not the fault at all of the
> merchant that someone intercepted my number, in effect printing up
> a charge slip twice, but I cannot even tell it is being done or
> take steps to correct it.

OTOH, how often do you hand your credit card to a waiter in a
restaurant who disappears with it for 3-5 minutes? You have no idea
how many impressions he may have taken with it, and he's certainly had
enough time to write down the name, number, and expiration date which
he could use over the phone or internet. *You* may not use your card
over the Internet, but if you're like most people you've probably
handed it to at least two dozen people in the last six months who
*could*.


 Mike Jones |  jonesm2@rpi.edu

Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons.
	- Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949

[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: You are correct that there are many
times a person will take your credit card out of sight for some short
period of time. A waiter in a restaurant is a perfect example. But
then you go on and fill in the blanks for me. Where is the ideal place
for him to use this hijacked number? On the internet of course where
after all, the physical plastic cannot be presented, and a signature
in his handwriting is not a desirable thing either. Even then, he
might have a problem however unless he knows your address. Many inter-
net businesses do make use of AVS -- address verification service --
as part of the approval process. They ask you on line what your
address is, and it best match what the sales authorization people have
on file when they try to obtain an approval. 

One 'adult' site which was getting hit horribly with fraud -- yeah,
yeah, I know, they should talk, with their fraudulent peep-show 'live
hidden cams, watch those nude teens who do not know they are being
observed' -- also tosses another fly in the ointment, or two flies
really. Many/most VISA cards also have a 'security number' printed
on them; right above the first four embossed digits one will see four
digits as part of the card design itself. Usually these four digits
are the same as the first four embossed digits.  So this site says
to its prospective users, 'what are the four little digits printed
on the card right above the first four embossed digits?' Oops! Oh,
I guess you did not think to write those down, tiny little print that
they are in when you purloined the rest of the number in the back
room at the restaurant or whatever.

Their other gimmick is this: They have a master list of which bank
belongs to which first four numbers. All VISA cards begin with a 4
and all MC cards start with 5. Discover Cards by the way always start
with '6011'. So let's say the series '4432' is issued by Podunk Bank
in the town of Podunk. The customer gives an address in Podunk, okay
so far so good. But then the site says, "well, we are just curious
about something ... your card was issued in Podunk, and you live in
Podunk, but we 'happened to notice' that you are calling through an
ISP over in Timbuktu, 2000 miles away. Do you usually do business
with a 'local ISP' a couple thousand miles away? ... ah, you must
be on vacation, or a business trip, is that it?" And the fraud user
about that point decides these people know too much, and splits.

Now there are flaws here obviously. A card from a national issuer
like let's say CitiBank or BankOne is likely to show up anywhere.
If the user is connected through a national ISP, he will likely show
up anywhere also, so you cannot always assume the worst. But for a
large number of customers, you are going to find them in the same
town as where the issuing bank is located (or nearby) and you are
going to find them showing up with an IP address that relates to the
same general area.  

One web site begins its order-taking process by explaining 'we will
only make delivery to the address which is listed for the card; you
must tell us that address before we begin to validate your card, and
the associated telephone number. We will soon attempt to verify the
telephone number and call it to speak with the cardholder. We note
that you are connecting to us from IP address xxxxxxx which is the
(name of) ISP in (city name). This will be part of our records in
the event there is some misunderstanding or a need to clarify the
order you are placing.' Does it surprise you they get very few fraud
orders?  

This works with sites that have merchandise to be delivered, and they
*always* get a signed receipt on delivery.  A problem comes up with
web sites which have no merchandise to deliver in person to your door,
and are charging only for 'information' services, i.e. the adult sex
site operators. Their fraud rate is much higher, and a good many 
people personally could care less about the well-being of people who
run those sites anyway; the more fraud there is, the sooner they
will leave. I guess that is the rationale. 

But if your business on the net is legitmate, try adding these few
extras to your validation process --

'What is the security code on your card?' I believe the answer is
always that they will be the same as the first four embossed digits
although some VISA operators may choose to not put them there or
use them. A person with only a fraud number and name might well not
know about 'those extra four tiny digits printed above the account
number.'

ALWAYS get the address in the user's own words, and spend the couple
cents extra in the sales authorization process to use Address
Verification Service. Make sure the user knows this is the ONLY
address which can be used for delivery.

Have a database showing the clearing house number for each VISA and
MC franchisee bank, i.e. '4421' is the Podunk Bank. Ask your 
customer 'what bank issued your VISA card?' Likewise, if 4421 is
the Podunk Bank, why is the customer in another state somewhere?
Visiting his relatives in another state, used their computer to
login, was surfing the net and just decided to buy your product?
Well, yeah, possibly, but not likely. 

Begin building a database of attempted and successful frauds. Is
there always one particular ISP that seems to be a problem with
his customers? (You should definitly do a reverse DNS lookup while
you are in the sales approval process). If so, then lock that ISP
out; block his whole class C ... or maybe do not lock him out, just
wave red flags like crazy when you see one of his users coming. From
your database of fraud attempts (or successful) try and begin
developing trends; see if you can't get to the point you can almost
successfully predict a fraud before it happens. 

Get an email address from your customer; try and finger him right
then and there, can you do so? Do the names match?

Consider the time of day/day of the week when someone comes to your
site to make a purchase. You should log it, along with his IP and
his service provider anyway, but give some thought to it ... is
someone going to log in to your site at 5 AM on Sunday morning to
make a purchase using a credit card issued to a business?  If he
has a card in a business name at any time of day, does your site
sell things that a business would be likely to purchase via computer
and credit card?

Ditto in reverse. Pretend you were the person buying the merchandise,
is that how you would go about it?  

You have to be reasonable about these things, and no one single 
red flag should stop the sale, but all things taken in context
by a smart business person should help reduce fraud. 

                 ===========================

A funny story: Twas the day before Christmas, and credit card
sales authorizers will tell you Christmas week is the worse week
of the year for fraud; they come out of the woodwork the week of
Christmas, holiday cheer and all that. Bum checks, stolen credit
cards, you name it. 

Friend of mine in Chicago worked for Marshall Field Department Store
at the time, about ten years ago. He was a sales authorizer in the
credit department, working the night shift. The day before Christmas.

A limouisine pulls up and out steps this man who looks like some
kind of European royalty, elegantly dressed, expensive ring on his
finger, etc. With him, a young lady about half or maybe one-third
his age. Of course all the sales people start frothing at the mouth
and finding out where to get in line so they can suck up and
all that. Well, this fellow decided that for his lady friend he
would take a fur coat, value $3000. He also wanted a ring for her
with a price tag of about $1000. Oh, a few other odds and ends of
course, the total bill a little over $5000. "Just open a new 
account for me and put it on my bill says the gentleman ..." and
of course the phone was soon ringing up on the tenth floor in the
back offices where the credit people work, with the manager of the
fur department on one line and the manager of the jewelry department
on the other line each trying to get the new account set up for this
fellow.

The sales authorizer, the only person in the department because the
customer service people and clerks go home at 5 pm although the store
itself is open until 10 pm goes over to the credit bureau machine,
types in what he wants, 'pulls a bureau' on the identification given,
has done it so many hundreds of times that he can spend ten seconds
looking it over and make a decision; he sees that the credit all just
appears to be impecable ... absolutely perfect ... but as he said to
me later, 'something just grated on me, something just seemed wrong
with it. Here it is fifteen minutes before closing, this guy rushing
all the sales clerks to get his purchases ... why now? Why a woman
in her early twenties it would appear and him in his late fifties?

He said he picked up the phone where the fur manager was waiting on
the line impatiently, and just told him flat out, "I am not going
to give him shit ...". Oh, well you should have heard the fur flying
then. With the customer being one of these 'Do you know who I am, my
good man, I will get you fired tommorrow' types ... The fur manager
and the jewelry manager actually called the vice-president in charge
of credit sales at his *home* at ten pm demanding to get an approval
for the customer. The VP calls the sales authorizer and wants to 
know the problem. The authorizer tells him this customer is a total
fraud, but I am not going to say it to his face. The VP says he will
approve it the next day so the authorizer leaves the paperwork on
the VPs desk and leaves for the night.

Fast forward three months ... the authorizer, who was carrying a
vendetta anyway at getting overruled on it by the VP of credit
has kept a note with the guy's account number on it. He sees that
the account aged out, and gone to in-store collection but the
collection supervisor had already placed the account with an attorney.
He goes in the VP's office where the collection manager happens to
be sitting anyway and laughs hysterically in both of their faces
and says 'I told you that guy was 100 hundred percent pure fraud',
and of course there was nothing they could do but sit there and be
abused by their employee, with more than $5000 in merchandise gone. 

It turns out the guy had completely stolen identification from some
person with good credit, had the guy's wallet with all the ID in
it, had gotten the $400 suit and the expensive ring he was wearing
on his own pinky finger using the guy's credit cards somewhere else,
and had stiffed the driver of the limouisine that was taking them
around town by paying him with a stolen check drawn on an otherwise
worthless account anyway. Presumably the young lady with him got
paid in cash, but who knows ... he had paid for their dinner and
drinks using -- you guessed it -- a fraud card. The day before
Christmas, last minute shoppers, rush, rush, rush ... knowing the
sales clerks want to get out and go home; make that one last nice
big sale, etc.   

                     ===========================

He told me later that two days earlier he had called the security 
officer on one of the floors and had him pull a credit card from
someone using it for payment and bring the card up to the office. 
He described the customer as a young black kid, about 19-20 years
old. I asked him was it on account of bad credit?  No, he said, it
just didn't seem to me his name would be Sadie Rosenblum; if you
were an African American mother, it that what you would name your
kid? No, I guess it isn't. He said the kid even tried to claim that
Sadie was his grandma ... and when it was suggested then let's call
grandma and have her come on down the store now, the kid ran.  

Most people doing credit card fraud are not that bright. You
internet merchants play with their head a little and shake them
down; you'll eliminate huge gobs of your fraud.      PAT] 

------------------------------

From: dsnow <dsnow@primalimage.org>
Subject: Multiple Location Cell, Landline & Long Distance Service
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:15:51 -0600
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises


Hello all,

Telephone costs are eating me alive.

I have homes in Las Vegas, Nevada and Salt Lake City, Utah. Telco's
are Sprint and US West, respectively. I have cellular service in Utah
(Airtouch) and recently dropped a 2nd NAM account in Vegas. Thank God
my ISP (Mindspring) can be accessed from either location.

While I doubt there is much I can do about the land lines, is there
any combination or bundle of cellular and long distance services that
might save me a few bucks?

I have AT&T long distance, but for a decent rate they wanted thier $5
service charge on the lines at both locations. Since I can only be in
one place at a time the extra charge usually ate up any savings.  (The
AT&T rewards program was a joke too, they told me they couldn't
combine my useage at both locations because they were from different
telephone companies.)

What I'd really like is a local number in both cities that can find me
wherever I am and reasonable long distance rates on both POTS lines
and wireless. I'd need modem (internet) access at both locations.

Glad to see this newsgroup is alive and well. I used it regularly
years ago when I was running a BBS and fighting with the telco ...


Thanks,

D Snow


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Yeah, I am still alive and well
for now at least. Glad I could be of help back then; maybe we
can help you this time also.   PAT]

------------------------------

From: Ray Sanders <rsanders@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Horrible Data Connection
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 00:13:16 -0400
Organization: Gopher Tortise DMZ
Reply-To: rsanders@gate.net


Dave O'Shea wrote:

> I'm about 3100 feet from the SLC hut that puts us onto fiber for the
> haul back to the CO. According to the local techs, Bubba and Elmer,
> I'm lucky to be able to break dial tone at that distance. But,
> heh-heh, I still pay full price for service - $50 a month per line for
> local service only!

Yep, sounds familiar. I'm about 4000' from the SLC box. But that in
itself is not the problem, one of the techs explained to me that my
lines (and everyone else on this rural road) are just taps on the
cable as it goes by. The cable is about 10K feet in length. So I'm
parallel connected to 10K of cable, even though I'm only 4K feet
from the SLC.

> I finally broke down and got ISDN service - $172.00 per month. Ouch.

Your lucky. The SLC here (north central Florida) is connected to
the CO via a multi-pair copper cable (several T1s). No fiber, therefore
(as BellSloth sees it) no ISDN. I *did* have an FR-56 thru that box for
two years, but declined to pick up the $175/month fee (to get it to the
cloud and on to the ISP) when I changed employers.

> Chip in with neighbors for a fractional T1?

If only I could get these people to envision broadband. A cable modem
would blow them away. I'm even looking into radio modems (64K sync
full/duplex) to bypass BS for the six miles into town. There's gotta
be a better way!


Ray Sanders
rsanders at gate dot net


------------------------------

From: Ray Sanders <rsanders@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Rotary Dial Telephone
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 00:22:20 -0400
Organization: Gopher Tortise DMZ
Reply-To: rsanders@gate.net


LARB0 wrote:

> Five hour backup won't do alot of good when the power is out for one
> or two days. With central office power, the phone works fine -
> especially since COs have backup generators. During winter ice storms,
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> we've lost power frequently - once over two days. This is my main issue
> regarding wireless and IP telephony - the loss of "lifeline" service.

 True, COs are generally prepared to run for a week or more with no
mains power. But those of us in rural America have another
problem. Our service is provided from the CO to the residence via a
SLC box. The SLC box has batteries which are good for 24-48
hours. After that, the SLC goes dead.  And along with it, all the
phones serviced by the SLC. The local techs tell me they have portable
generators at the CO to be distributed to the SLCs if such a situation
happens. Might get interesting, a couple dozen generators sitting at
lonely rural intersections hummin away in the midst of a small
population with no electricity.


Ray Sanders
rsanders at gate dot net

------------------------------

From: jt5555@epix.net (Julian Thomas)
Subject: Re: VoiceNet Calling Card Experiences Wanted
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 03:14:52 GMT


In <telecom19.198.5@telecom-digest.org>, on 07/07/99 at 10:52 PM,
jt5555@epix.net (Julian Thomas) said:

> Er -- if this is www.voicenet.com then the above is true only if you have
> a local access number for VOICENET.  Nothing about 800 access on the web
> site.

Jason got back to me on this - his voicenet calling card has this URL:

http://WWW.voicenetcard.COM/


voicenet.com seems to be primarily an ISp with some internet telephone
stuff.

 
 Julian Thomas: jt 5555 at epix dot net  http://home.epix.net/~jt
 remove numerics for email
 Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc  http://www.possi.org
 In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!
 
 I don't do Windows, but OS/2 does.

------------------------------

From: kho@ph.ibm.com
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 07:15:52 +0800
Subject: Re: Asian Telecom Search


huck siang LIM <huck_siang.lim@ibm.net> wrote:

> I would to have listings of all telecommunications Operating companies
> in Asia countries including Hong Kong, Taiwan, Malaysia, Thailand,
> Philippines, Indonesia, China and India.  Also, can you please list
> out the regulatory body in these respective countries?

I read your query  and decided to reply ...

"PHILIPPINE Scenario"

1. Regulatory Body:
   National Telecommunications Commission -  regulates the dialling
   prefices, calling rates, radio frequency licenses, watchdog of the
   Philippine Gov't on all telecom related affairs and etc...
   Executive Order #59 -  Issued on February 1993. EO59 is a policy
   guideline for the compulsory interconnection of all authorized public
   telecommunications carrier.

2. Telecom Operating Companies

(Huck Siang, I'll just write down the major telecom players in the
Philippines, although there are still quite a number of small telcos
located in some remote places)

A). International Gateway Operators(IGF)  with Wireline services
   Eastern Telecommunications Philippines, Inc.(ETPI)
   Philippine Global Communications, Inc (Philcom)
   Capitol Wireless, Inc. (Capwire)
   International Communications Corporation (ICC) or Bayantel
   Digital Telecommunications Philippines, Inc (Digitel)
   Philippine Long Distance Telephone Co. (PLDT)

B). Cellular Mobile Telephony System(CMTS) ONLY
   Pilipino Telephone Corp (Piltel) - NAMPS & CDMA
   Extelcom - NAMPS

C). IGF & CMTS with Wireline Services
   Isla Communications Co., Inc.(ISLACOM) - GSM
   Globe Telecom (Globetel) - GSM
   Smart Communications, Inc.(SMART) - ETACS & GSM


Most of these operators have their wireline commitments to the Philippine
Government.
Such that if you are a CMTS operator you are required by the government to
install about 400,000 landlines and all IGF operators have a commitment to
install about 300,000 telephone service. If both CMTS and IGF then a total
of 700,000 is required.


Hope this helps.

Gary Y. Kho
Business Analyst/IT Specialist
ICMS Enablement
IBM Global Services
2/F IBM Philippines, Incorporated
IBM Building, 8758 Paseo de Roxas
1226 Makati City, Philippines

Work    : (63-2) 8781929
Mobile : (63-912) 8004752
Pager  : (63-2) 141-962552
Internet: kho@ph.ibm.com

------------------------------

From: hjaiblomi@gloucester.com (Heywood Jaiblomi)
Subject: Re: Selective Call Screening
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 02:20:39 GMT
Organization: Department of Silly Walks


In article <telecom19.200.3@telecom-digest.org>, Peter_Simpson@ne.3com.
com wrote:

> It would: 

> - allow you to program time periods during which certain levels of 
> restriction would apply (dinner, for example ... no "out of area" calls
> allowed.) 

> - allow you to maintain a list of "blocked" numbers and "desired"
>   numbers.'
> - assign unique "ring patterns" to certain calling numbers. 
> - support "access codes" and default messages for restricted numbers
> ("sorry, we don't accept unidentified calls" or "if you're not a
> telemarketer, press 1 now")

This product already exists, and is a card which fits in your PC. Art
Hunter (hunter@drex.ca) made them in the early 90's and there may
still be some left.  The only thing on your list that it does not do
is accept an "access code" but it does have time choices, blocking of
numbers, it knows the difference between out of area and blocked, it
allows you to block by name, it allows you to search by number, and
all kinds of other neat stuff.

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #202
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Fri Jul  9 13:47:08 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA05429;
	Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:47:08 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:47:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907091747.NAA05429@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #203

TELECOM Digest     Fri, 9 Jul 99 13:47:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 203

Inside This Issue:                          Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Please Contact FCC re: SBC/Ameritech Merger (Monty Solomon)
    Help Defeat UCITA (Monty Solomon)
    Book Review: "Connecting to the Internet", Andrew F. Ward (Rob Slade)
    How Secure Are Leased Lines Today? (John Eichler)
    How Does AOL, etc Offer Dial Up in So Many Cities? (ONG SoftWare)
    Area Code 321 on Jeopardy! (Carl Moore)
    Bills Would Fence Off the Facts (Monty Solomon)
    Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers? (Adam H. Kerman)
    Re: Caller ID & Star-69 (Was: Weird Wrong Number Calls) (Danny Burstein)
    Re: You Believe *67 Works? (Leonid A. Broukhis)
    Re: FCC Extra Line Charge (Dan Lanciani)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 01:02:09 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Please Contact FCC re: SBC/Ameritech merger


Message forwarded:

  Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 21:07:11 -0600 (MDT)
  From: Audrie Krause <audrie@consumerchoice.org>
  Subject: ACTION ALERT: Contact FCC re: SBC/Ameritech merger
  Sender: phones-owner@consumerchoice.org


* * * * * * * * * ACTION ALERT * * * * * * * * *

FCC Invites Comments on the Proposed Conditions to the SBC/Ameritech Merger

PLEASE CIRCULATE WIDELY TO APPROPRIATE LISTS AND NEWS GROUPS

Comments must be filed by July 13, 1999; reply comments by July 20, 1999
(Disregard this notice after July 20, 1999)

Three years after Congress deregulated the telecommunications
industry, local phone service is still a monopoly. And the Federal
Communications Commission (FCC) is on the verge of making it an even
bigger monopoly.

The FCC is asking for comments on proposed conditions for the
SBC/Ameritech merger.  The conditions were proposed by SBC and
Ameritech in response to concerns raised earlier this year by FCC
Chairman William Kennard.  See:
<http://www.fcc.gov/Speeches/Kennard/Statements/stwek920.html>.  The
FCC is recommending that the merger be approved subject to these
conditions. This is very likely the LAST CHANCE consumers will have to
express concerns about the merger before the FCC issues a final
decision.

The proposed conditions do not provide the concrete assurances that
consumers need regarding local phone competition.  News reports have
characterized the proposed conditions for competitive local service as
"fuzzy," since the details are vague regarding SBC's commitment to
expand outside its existing service territory.

SBC's track record with consumers is the worst in the nation.  Without
specific, concrete proposals and timelines, the vague proposed
conditions will remain just that.  Local phone competition will
continue to be supressed and consumers will be stuck with an even
larger and more powerful monopoly.

Address email comments to: ecfs@fcc.gov <mailto:ecfs@fcc.gov>.  The
Sample Comment included below contains the minimum required
information in the required format.  The Docket Number is correct and
must be included when you submit your comments.  Substitute your own
name and address, and write your own comment below the <TEXT> field
(or copy and paste the sample comment).

A summary of the proposed conditions is available on the FCC's web site at
<http://www.fcc.gov/ccb/Mergers/SBC_Ameritech/conditions062999.html>.


* * *   SAMPLE: THIS IS HOW YOUR COMMENT SHOULD BE FORMATTED * * *

<DOCKET-NUMBER>      98-141
<NAME>               Jane M. Doe
<ADDRESS1>           902 Snyder Lane
<CITY>               Wichita
<STATE>              KS
<ZIP>                29988
<TEXT>

Dear Commissioners,

The proposed conditions for the SBC/Ameritech merger are too vague to
ensure that consumers will finally see the benefits of local phone
competition.  The FCC must do more to ensure that local competition
develops before approving the merger.

* * * * * * * END OF SAMPLE COMMENT * * * * * * *


A Public Notice with complete information on how to file email
comments is at
<http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Public_Notices/1999/da991305.html>.
You can request the instructions and a sample by sending an email
message to: ecfs@fcc.gov <mailto:ecfs@fcc.gov>.  Leave the subject
line blank and in the message field type: get form <YOUR EMAIL
ADDRESS>.  Instructions and a sample form will be sent in a reply.

Comments are due by Tuesday, July 13, 1999.  Oppositions or responses
to these comments are due by Tuesday, July 20, 1999.  The Docket
Number is 98-141.

See <http://www.consumerchoice.org/SBCmerger.html> for more background on
this issue.


THIS ACTION ALERT IS IN EFFECT THROUGH JULY 20, 1999.  PLEASE DISREGARD
THIS MESSAGE AFTER JULY 20, 1999.

For more information, contact:

Audrie Krause
Email: audrie@consumerchoice.org <mailto:audrie@consumerchoice.org>
http://www.consumerchoice.org

To subscribe to this Action Alert list:
Send a message to: majordomo@consumerchoice.org (no subject needed)
In the message body type: subscribe phones

To remove your address from this list:
Send a message to: majordomo@consumerchoice.org (no subject needed)
In the message body type: unsubscribe phones

To subscribe or unsubscribe from an address other than the address you are
presently using, contact the list owner at:
phones-owner@consumerchoice.org

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 00:58:10 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Help Defeat UCITA


Forwarded message:

  Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 02:19:14 -0400
  From: Free Software Foundation <gnu@gnu.org>
  Subject: Help defeat UCITA

[The Free Software Project is posting this message to aid a campaign
led by others (see below) against UCITA.  For more information,
please see the web sites below.  Please repost this message as
widely as possible, wherever it is appropriate.]


UCITA (formerly UCC article 2B) is a plan to change the law in the US,
state by state, to give software publishers unprecedented power over
software users, through "shrink wrap" licenses.  Software owners would
be able to prohibit you from doing reverse-engineering to figure out
the protocol used by the program, prohibit you from telling the public
about bugs you encounter, insist that you can only sue them in
Paraguay, change the license terms post-facto, and enter your computer
to shut off the software if they claim you have violated their
one-sided license.

UCITA would also apply to other products that contain software or
information -- for example, digital watches, microwave ovens, and cars.
Wave goodbye to consumer protection laws.

Fortunately, there is a strong campaign to oppose UCITA.  Infoworld
has organized a letter-writing petition campaign which you can join.
See http://forums.infoworld.com/threads/get.cgi?115803.

The principal vote (in late July) will by a committee of the state
representatives to the commission on uniform state laws, and there is
also a campaign asking you to write to your own state's commissioner.

See http://www.badsoftware.com/ for advice on how to do this, and much
more information about UCITA.  Another resource page about UCITA is
http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian/UCITA/.

I hope each US citizen or resident reading this message will help
oppose UCITA in one way or another.

------------------------------

From: Rob Slade<rslade@sprint.ca>
Organization: Vancouver Institute for Research into User
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 08:15:35 -0800
Subject: Book Review: "Connecting to the Internet", Andrew F. Ward
Reply-To: rslade@sprint.ca


BKCNTTIN.RVW   990618

"Connecting to the Internet", Andrew F. Ward, 1999, 0-201-37956-2,
U$19.95/C$29.95
%A   Andrew F. Ward
%C   P.O. Box 520, 26 Prince Andrew Place, Don Mills, Ontario M3C 2T8
%D   1999
%G   0-201-37956-2
%I   Addison-Wesley Publishing Co.
%O   U$19.95/C$29.95 416-447-5101 fax: 416-443-0948 bkexpress@aw.com
%P   291 p.
%T   "Connecting to the Internet"

The preface states that the book is for experienced network
administrators who are connecting their LAN to the Internet for the
first time.

Chapter one outlines IP internetworking and Internet services, but
spends most of its time dealing with routing.  The routing content is,
at one and the same time, much more detailed than most first time
administrators would probably want, and not particularly clear.  There
is a broad, but rather generic, guide to Internet Service Providers
(ISPs) in chapter two.  For connecting your LAN to the provider,
chapter three gives a comprehensive, but terse, outline of access
circuits.  A number of concepts and details of Internet security are
discussed, albeit very quickly, in chapter four.

Chapter five looks at practical details of network design, based on
the prior material, in terms of configuration.  Testing and
diagnostics are reviewed in chapter six.  Going live, in chapter
seven, notes the throwing of the final switches, as it were.  However,
it is also evident, at this point, that a number of areas, such as
policies, registration, and so forth, have been ignored in favour of
getting the hardware and software running.

The final chapter talks about management, but seems to assume some
ideal network where both users and providers are much more capable
than is generally the case.  As only one example, the text states that
complaints from users tend to come in the form, "Do we have some kind
of firewall that stops Application x from running?"  In reality, you
most often hear something like "My BuddyBox won't pop!" and must then
determine a) whether the user is trying to run a Wintel client on a
Mac, b) what and where the BuddyBox server is, c) that "pop" means
send, d) that the user has no Buddies, and e) that BuddyBox Inc. never
got beyond alpha release, and, in any case, has been bankrupt for
eight months.

Unfortunately, while there is a good deal of information in the book,
it has concentrated on those areas that sysadmins probably will
already have explored to some extent.  The topics left unexamined are
precisely those that technically aware Internet novices would need.

copyright Robert M. Slade, 1999   BKCNTTIN.RVW   990618


======================  (quote inserted randomly by Pegasus Mailer)
rslade@vcn.bc.ca  rslade@sprint.ca  slade@victoria.tc.ca p1@canada.com
I finally realized why Windows is truly multitasking.  I find
myself keeping some secondary task (like ... mail) handy so I can
make good use of the time I spend waiting for Windows.'n                                                    -Steve Edelson
http://victoria.tc.ca/techrev    or    http://sun.soci.niu.edu/~rslade

------------------------------

From: John Eichler <jeichl@acxiom.com>
Subject: How Secure Are Leased Lines Today?
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 07:58:19 -0500


Pat,

I would like to know if you or any of the Digest readers have any
references to the security aspects of leased lines today.

My gut feeling is that today such leased lines (with the possible
exception of lines from the central office to the customer's premises)
are more virtual rather than physical, especially when long distances
are involved.  This would be for overseas leased lines also.  As such,
it seems that they would be susceptible to the same interception as
regular lines would be.

I would like to have some facts to back up what was said in the above
paragraph and would appreciate any information pertaining to this
topic.


Thanks in advance,

John Eichler

------------------------------

From: ref@ongsw.com (ONG SoftWare)
Subject: How Does AOL, etc Offer Dial up in So Many Cities?
Date: 9 Jul 1999 13:44:10 GMT
Organization: ONG SoftWare
Reply-To: ref@ongsw.com


I am wondering how the system is set up so that AOL and your other
major service providers are able to have dial numbers in so many
cities. I am talking now and prior to the internet days, what I mean
is before the internet took off and AOL started to offer it. What type
of equipment is used, leased lines, etc.

Thanks and I look forward to all the information you can provide.


_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ 
ONG SoftWare - ref@ongsw.com
-= Creators of Web Organizer for OS/2 =-
HomePage: http://www.ongsw.com
[The Complete OS/2 Links Page! ]
http://www.ongsw.com/links/links.html
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:56:50 EDT
From: Carl Moore <cmoore@ARL.MIL>
Subject: Area Code 321 on Jeopardy!


In the Jeopardy! game I saw yesterday, the final clue (category was
"U.S.A.")  was that the counties near Cape Canaveral had gotten this
new telephone area code.  The response, which no one got, was "what is
area code 321".  The wrong responses were area codes 747 , 351 , 813
(you know 813 is already in use on the Gulf Coast of Florida).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:34:36 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts


by Oscar S. Cisneros
3:00 a.m.  6.Jul.99.PDT

A coalition of big money data vendors is pushing database protection
bills through the US Congress that could fundamentally disrupt the
basic functions of the Internet and radically alter how information
can be shared.

There are two competing bills that would protect data compilers by
prohibiting the duplication of their databases. Critics fear the more
restrictive of the two, Collections of Information Antipiracy Act
(HR354), would make criminals of companies that collect and aggregate
data -- companies like Yahoo and Amazon.com.


http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/20550.html

------------------------------

From: Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.chinet.com>
Subject: Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers?
Organization: Chinet - Public Access since 1982
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 06:07:15 GMT


> WASHINGTON -- Police can easily "eavesdrop" on pagers if a bill
> approved by the US Senate becomes law.

> The bill says law enforcement officials can monitor all messages sent
> to targeted pagers without having to convince a judge that the
> information can be found only in that way.

> "Congress is trying to do an end run around the Constitution and gut
> the privacy of millions of pager owners," said David Banisar, author
> of The Electronic Privacy Papers.

I'm not aware that there is an existing privacy right. Wireless
communications take place in the shared public spectrum. Use of a
pager does not convey an exclusive license to a portion of the
spectrum while telemetry is sent.

Even those who do hold licenses can only exclude others from
broadcasting, not from listening.

The federal cell phone eavesdropping law is an exception. I still
consider it to be an outrage.

We have the right to be secure in our person, papers, and
possessions. But we have another right, a natural right to use the
public way. That includes the airwaves. The more rights we grant
individuals to use the public way and exclude everyone else, the more
we infringe upon our own rights.

------------------------------

From: dannyb@panix.com (Danny Burstein)
Subject: Re: Caller ID & Star-69 (Was: Weird Wrong Number Calls)
Date: 9 Jul 1999 02:21:08 -0400


In <telecom19.201.9@telecom-digest.org> Eric@AreaCode-Info.com (Eric
Morson) writes:

> I think that caller ID would not help since *69 uses the same
> mechanism for retrieving the number. You would get an "unavailable"
> from caller ID as well. If I'm wrong about that, someone please 
> let me know.

Close, but not exactly correct.

There are a whole bunch of possibilities and many of them get handled
differently, based on whether the incoming call is local or long distance,
and whether it's been set for caller-id "block".

Taking these step by step (with the caveat that this is how things are
'supposed to work'):

	a) local call without blocking:
	caller id shows the number, *69 returns the call

	b) caller id WITH blocking:
	caller id shows "private". *69 may do any of the following
	depending on local practice:
		1) give you an error message
		2) return the call, but list the number on your
		monthly bill as, say, 555-XXXX [with the X's 
		used in place of the real four digits. or you
		might, more often, see '555-0000')

	c) long distance without blocking:
	caller id gives you the number. however, *69 will
	*not* put the call through (it may read you the 
	number, but it won't complete it because for
	some reason or another the ILECs don't pass
	these calls over to an IXC. I've never heard
	a good reason why they don't simply use your
	pre-selcted ixc, but they don't

	d) long distance with blocking:
	caller id gives you 'private'; *69 gives you error msgs

	e) cellular calls to you:
	if the real cnid of the actual phone is passed to you
	(as opposed to gettign the number of an outgoing
	trunk or some other quasi number), then this should be 
	handled the same way as a regular call and be returnable 
	based on local/long distance criteria.


Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
		     dannyb@panix.com 
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

------------------------------

From: leob@best.com (Leonid A. Broukhis)
Subject: Re: You Believe *67 Works?
Date: 09 Jul 1999 08:02:26 GMT


In article <telecom19.201.7@telecom-digest.org>, Leonid A. Broukhis wrote:

> A popular belief says that if one dials *67 and then calls a regular
> phone number, the caller will be identified as "private", "anonymous",
> etc. Not so with the phone numbers provided by www.webley.com
> (312-416-xxxx).  They will report the caller ID info to the subscriber
> even if the caller has dialed *67.

> Is it a violation of any regulations, or does it mean that, generally
> speaking, there is no way to ensure privacy when calling a regular
> phone number?

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: If what you are saying is true, and
> not just some fluke occurance because of a technical problem, I
> think it is a terrible invasion of privacy. Have you reported it?   PAT]

It is true. I've been told that this is legal because "webley.com is
not a local phone company" [whatever that means]. The reason is they
used to have only 800-series numbers for their subscribers, but
started selling regular numbers (for the Chicago area only) and handle
them the same way as 800-numbers.

By the way, whom should I report it to?


Leo


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I would start with the Illinois Commerce
Commission, which regulates telephone companies in Illinois. Second,
I would try to make sure that as many wembly.com customers as I could
reach were informed of the matter. Also, a couple of the telephone
consumer organizations in the Chicago area.   PAT]

------------------------------

From: Dan Lanciani <ddl@deas.harvard.edu>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 04:17:17 EDT
Subject: Re: FCC Extra Line Charge



jmaddaus@NO_SPAM.usa.net (John S. Maddaus) wrote:

> Maybe this is old news, or not news at all, but Bell Atlantic just
> sent me a notice that my monthly charge was increased retroactive to
> January on my second residence line due to an FCC directive allowing
> LECs to charge more for the second line.  Seems odd to me since I have
> not read anything about this in the NG, but then again maybe this was
> old news and they only decided to hit us with it now.  I think it
> amounts to a monthly increase of $3-4.  Seemed a little steep.

These little fee increases are appearing at an alarming rate, and the
spins the LECs put on them are a bit disturbing.  My mother recently
received the following notice from Bell Atalntic:

``Beginning January 1, 1999, the Federal Communications Commission
required Bell Atlantic to define all additional telephone lines at a
residence as non-primary and subject to a higher FCC Line Charge of
$6.07 per month, instead of the rate for a primary line of $3.50 a
month.  (The FCC Line Charge on the first or only line at a location
remains $3.50 per month.)''

``Bell Atlantic has identified a telephone line at your residence that
is subject to the higher FCC Line Charge.  The last four digits of the
number for the line are shown on the mailing label.  Bell Atlantic
attempted to identify these lines to begin billing the increased
charge in January.  However, some of the lines were identified only
recently.''

[They go on to explain that you will be billed retroactively.]

So, the question is, just how big is this lie?  We know that the FCC's
numbers (which did increase recently) are caps on how much the LEC can
charge (and of course, this charge goes into the LEC's pocket; it
isn't a tax or fund fee or such as they would like you to believe).
So the part about the FCC requiring BA to charge more is itself
untrue.  Raising a cap is hardly the same as requiring an increase.

This makes me question their assertion that the FCC required a new
definition of non-primary lines at all.  Does anyone have any
information on this?  I suspect that Bell Atlantic is just trying to
catch those clever people who put their second line in their cat's
name or such.  In my case, my mother is being penalized because of my
line which is (and always has been) in my name.  I'm not sure how they
decided that my line is primary since her line has existed since about
1959 while mine is only ~15 years old.

Meanwhile, the following appeared in current BA bills:

``Changes in Federal Charges Beginning July 1, 1999''

``Effective July 1, 1999, the FCC Non-Presubscribed Line Charge will
increase for residence customers who have not chosen a long-distance
carrier for any or all of their phone lines.  For single line
customers, this charge will increase from $.53 to approximately $1.04
per month.  For customers with additional lines or residential ISDN
lines, this charge will increase from $1.50 to approximately $2.53 per
month.''

``These rate changes are a result of reductions in access charges paid
by the long distance carriers and do not represent new revenue to Bell
Atlantic.''

Again they make it sound like the money isn't going right into their
pockets. I infer from this increase that the PICC chargeback from
various IXCs will soon increase again (this is beyond the recent USF
chargeback increase).  It's great to live in this time of inexpensive
telephone service.


Dan Lanciani
ddl@harvard.edu

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #203
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Fri Jul  9 14:40:13 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA08819;
	Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:40:13 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:40:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907091840.OAA08819@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #204

TELECOM Digest     Fri, 9 Jul 99 14:40:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 204

Inside This Issue:                          Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Baby Steps Toward Privacy Marketing (Monty Solomon)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (John Eichler)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Derek Balling)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (John R. Levine)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Jeff Colbert)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Steve Winter)
    Re: You Believe *67 Works? (Steven J. Sobol)
    Re: You Believe *67 Works? (Joseph Wineburgh)
    Re: Rotary Dial Telephone (John R. Levine)
    Re: Bell Geolocation Technology Pinpoints Wireless 911 (Herb Stein)
    Re: Calling Number ID in California (Herb Stein)
    Re: Calling Number ID vs. Unlisted Numbers (Herb Stein)
    Re: Calling Number ID vs. Unlisted Numbers (Pete Weiss)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 01:16:21 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Baby Steps Toward Privacy Marketing


http://tbtf.com/archive/1999-07-08.html 

  Just because they have a policy doesn't mean they respect your privacy

    In an early issue of TBTF [19] Nick Szabo predicted [20] that we would
    see companies competing for customers by touting their respect for
    privacy. Under the implied threat of government privacy regulation,
    this trend seems finally to be emerging. In April IBM, the second
    largest Web advertiser, announced they would no longer advertise on
    sites lacking a clear privacy policy [21], [22]. Earlier this month
    Microsoft, the number one advertiser, followed suit [23]. Now Disney
    has upped the ante in the privacy marketing game [24]: as of 1 Octo-
    ber Disney.com will neither place ads with nor accept ads from com-
    panies that lack a privacy policy. The new rule also applies to Dis-
    ney's other media properties, Excite, GO network, ESPN.com, ABC.com,
    ABCNews.com, and Family.com.

    Personally I consider these actions to be baby steps. The existence
    of a privacy policy does not demonstrate a company's commitment to
    protect consumer privacy -- merely a pledge not to violate it in
    secret. I would be more impressed if Microsoft announced that as of
    a given date they would no longer use cookies to track users and
    would not sell or transfer any identifiable consumer data to any
    other organization; nor would they accept or place advertising with
    any company that did.

    [19] http://tbtf.com/archive/1995-11-03.html
    [20] http://tbtf.com/resource/priv-marketing.html
    [21] http://www.internetworld.com/print/1999/04/12/ecomm/19990412-ibm.html
    [22] http://www.adage.com/interactive/articles/19990405/article1.html
    [23] http://www.foxmarketwire.com/wires/0622/f_ap_0622_74.sml
    [24] http://www.lycos.com/cgi-bin/pursuit?query=3224&fs=docid&cat=zdnet&mtemp=zdnet

------------------------------

From: John Eichler <jeichl@acxiom.com>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 07:51:39 -0500


Pat,

You made a statement in your comments regarding this posting that
requires a little more justification, IMHO, on your behalf.  You said
that,

> SSL just simply is not a very safe way to pass account numbers. Oh,
> the businesses on the net are trying to convince everyone it is, since
> that is about the only way they have to do business at present, but
> based on what we know about net technology today, SSL just doesn't cut
> it."

There are other factors which deal in when using SSL such as the
degree of protection afforded by using different key lengths.  Our
government has not allowed the export of any type of encryption that
exceeded 40-bit key lengths, a stance which, in certain situations, is
changing now.  However, if you look at the latest Netscape security
they have a wide variety of encryption algorithms and key lengths
(40-bit, 56-bit, 128-bit and even 168-bit) available. .

A short while ago I decided to try net banking with NationsBank.
Rather than just blindly accepting the encryption defaults, I changed
my options to only accept 128-bit key length.  To my surprise my
connection would not work.  I thought it was the fault of NationsBank.
After going around and around with them for a while, I learned that to
use 128-bit keys one had to download a "special" version of Netscape
for use in the U.S. only.  Once I downloaded that version, I had no
problem with the SSL link.

My only advice is to not blindly accept a link as being secure just
because that little padlock closes on the screen.  Pay close attention
to the options settings for SSL.  From everything I've seen, SSL is
very secure these days.  (They had a major problem with it a few years
ago due to a faulty pseudo random number generator which has now been
fixed.)

Pat, I would appreciate any published references you could provide me
showing where the 128-bit key length SSL using a secure block cipher
has been cryptographically broken.  I would like to include such
references in a white paper I am currently writing on net security.


Thanks,

John Eichler

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 06:31:46 -0700
From: Derek Balling <dredd@megacity.org>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce


At 03:49 AM 7/9/99 -0400, TELECOM Digest Editor noted:

>> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: In an actual, physical store setting,
>> there are several safety features available, regardless of the wages
>> paid to the clerk or the clerk's own ethical standards of behavior.
>> For starters, I can notice if two charges slips instead of one happen
>> to be 'accidentally' imprinted, and call the clerk's attention to it.
>> Which is not to say I cannot get my money back later, its just easier
>> for someone who is on a limited income and budget like myself to not
>> have to take that extra step at a later time. On the net, if someone
>> is 'sniffing' for credit cards, it is not the fault at all of the
>> merchant that someone intercepted my number, in effect printing up
>> a charge slip twice, but I cannot even tell it is being done or
>> take steps to correct it.

> OTOH, how often do you hand your credit card to a waiter in a
> restaurant who disappears with it for 3-5 minutes? You have no idea
> how many impressions he may have taken with it, and he's certainly had
> enough time to write down the name, number, and expiration date which
> he could use over the phone or internet. *You* may not use your card
> over the Internet, but if you're like most people you've probably
> handed it to at least two dozen people in the last six months who
> *could*.

All this talk of "imprinting" confuses me ... when was the last time
your card actually got imprinted? The last time it happened to me was
when the local gas station's modem line was done, so the very-confused
clerk had to manually validate each charge using the old imprinter
most of us know and love.

Aside from that, I haven't seen an imprinter actually USED in years.

Your charge card number, if you go to most stores, will appear mostly 
blocked out on your receipt (maybe), but probably appears in full on the 
journal tape that stays in the register. "Skippy the salesclerk" could 
easily go back through that and get all your information that he needs.

And on the issue Pat brings up later about signatures ... have you
EVER had your signature checked? Especially in today's society of
swipe-it-yourself POS stations, my card rarely ever ends up in
"Skippy's" hands at all, so he'd be hard pressed to compare the
signatures with the "master signature" inside my wallet in my back
pocket long before it becomes time to sign the receipt.

I'm far more inclined to trust cdnow.com or whomever , because they
are far more conscious of credit card fraud possibilities than the
average K-Mart will ever dream of being. Neither situation is
fool-proof, to be certain, but at least the online merchants have
"customer security" as a buzzword, which is more than the average
brick-and-mortar retailer.


D

------------------------------

Date: 9 Jul 1999 10:30:58 -0400
From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA


>> On the net, if someone
>> is 'sniffing' for credit cards, it is not the fault at all of the
>> merchant that someone intercepted my number, in effect printing up
>> a charge slip twice, but I cannot even tell it is being done or
>> take steps to correct it.

Except that it's never happened.  I've been asking for years for
reports of credit card numbers being stolen in transit over the net,
and I have yet to get a credible report.

As you note, there's plenty of credit card fraud on the Internet, but
it's all perpetrated against merchants, not against cardholders.


John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869
johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, 
Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: What about the situation recently where
someone was at amazon.com and passed their bank account number only
to later have their account cleaned out? What about the 'everyone
qualifies for a VISA card' program run by the outfit in Clearwater, FL
which pushes through an automatic withdrawal on checking accounts
without telling anyone, or telling them only at the last minute? What
about the numerous people like J. Collie who admittedly offer only
a simple, very crude scam against consumers, but often times a very
effective one?  What about the numerous 'adult' sites which require
the user to present a credit card as 'proof of being over 18' who say
they will not charge the credit card while you use your 'free membership'
and then put through some outrageous charge anyway? What about the 
numerous commercial sites which absolutely insist that you exchange
cookies with them to merely look at their site and then proceed to
trade those cookies around with other devious merchants like themselves?

You are going to sit there and tell me fraud on the internet is purely
a one-sided thing with the netizens totally at fault and the companies
completely innocent of any wrong doing?    PAT]

------------------------------

From: Jeff Colbert <jeff.colbert@removethispam.wcom.com>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:23:56 GMT


Just a side note. I have had several problems buying merchandise
online due to the fact that my local postoffice does not do mail
delivery to the house. My bills come to my PO Box, Packages are picked
up at the window. Packages not going through the postal system go to
my street address. I quit doing business with Egghead as they could
never get it right. There has to be some leeway in the system for
people with my situation and for the most part, smaller businesses
take the time to check.


Jeff

------------------------------

From: steve@sellcom.com (Steve Winter)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 05:40:25 GMT
Organization: WWW.SELLCOM.COM
Reply-To: steve@sellcom.com


TELECOM Digest Editor wrote to Gregory L. Abbott saying something like:


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: In an actual, physical store setting,
> there are several safety features available, regardless of the wages
> paid to the clerk or the clerk's own ethical standards of behavior.

> For starters, I can notice if two charges slips instead of one happen
> to be 'accidentally' imprinted, and call the clerk's attention to it.
> Which is not to say I cannot get my money back later, its just easier
> for someone who is on a limited income and budget like myself to not
> have to take that extra step at a later time. On the net, if someone
> is 'sniffing' for credit cards, it is not the fault at all of the
> merchant that someone intercepted my number, in effect printing up
> a charge slip twice, but I cannot even tell it is being done or
> take steps to correct it.

ACK!!!!  (excuse me) ahem...  What is to stop that clerk from writing
down your credit card info from the sales slip after you have
demonstrated physical absence by your departure and later making phone
orders with it or giving it to his buddies?

> Look at what happened to amazon.com recently. Some guy in South
> America or someplace sniffed out the bank account numbers of several
> of their customers then looted all the customers' money. Customer

We use SSL secure connections for credit card data transfer and
our records are protected by an armed guard.

> finds out about it only when the money is long since gone. In a
> store I can *see* the clerk attempt to do those things and put a

No no no no no!!!! (excuse me) ahem ... I mean how can you be so sure
that the employee or anyone else with access to those slips doesn't
copy your number name exp date etc and then do something dishonorable
with it?

> stop to it. amazon.com of course has no intention of making any
> restitution; they didn't steal the money. SSL just simply is not a
> very safe way to pass account numbers. Oh, the businesses on the
> net are trying to convince everyone it is, since that is about the
> only way they have to do business at present, but based on what we
> know about net technology today, SSL just doesn't cut it.

I believe that it is more secure than a reasonable small percentage 
of disgruntled (or even semi-postal) employees somewhere.  What's
to stop the waitre or waitress from just writing down your number
when he/she takes your card to the register?

> Because in an actual store the merchant's agreement with his credit
> card processor will likely call for the presence of actual plastic,
> and a form which has been imprinted with numbers and signed by an
> actual customer, there is less risk of later abuse. If I make an

Please see my ramblings above.

> If I shop via the computer, you are going to go in your stockroom to
> fill my order and possibly pick the one item you've been trying to get
> rid of for six months and foist that off on me. If I come in your

I am crushed <sniff>

> store on the other hand, I will look through the shelves and stacks of
> items and pick the one *I* want, regardless of what you may have
> laying around that is stained, or partially not working, or returned
> by a previous purchaser without its manual and a couple of its parts

OUCH!!!    

> (i.e. power cord or a knob) missing. No fault of yours maybe that the
> previous customer bought the item, got his dirty hands all over it then
> returned it to you for credit, but you still want to get rid of that

A guy asked me today if he didn't like a phone once he got it and I
told him he would have a better chance getting money back from a tel
evangelist (really, I said that, we have an all sales final policy).

> one. You are going to charge my credit card the minute that merchandise
> is being processed, and you are going to make part of the terms of sale
> that it is my problem if/when the delivery company actually gets it here
> and if they get it here in one piece or not. Don't keep bothering us
> here at the web site about it, go talk to your local Fedex office.

Oh come on.  Has this actually happened to you?  FedEx and UPS are
both very very good at delivering packages.  If they fail to get a
package delivered on time (and it was their fault) they refund the
shipping costs.

> My experience has generally been to date that if one does business
> with a merchant in an actual physical location where one can examine
> the merchandise first, pay for it, take it away with him and if it is
> necessary, return it and receive credit for it, things just seem to
> go a little smoother. There are exceptions of course; there are stores
> I would never want to go in to, or have anything to do with. My exper-

I have been in stores where the sales people were rude.  I have been
in stores where I would not have handed a credit card to the person
behind the counter.

> will most likely occur on the net rather than in person. On the net,
> it appears fraud is evenly distributed about fifty/fifty between customer
> and merchant. In a physical setting the ratio is closer to about ninety/

People have been killed and car jacked in mall parking lots, Pat.

>   On Wednesday, the ACH people said the money had been taken by
>   the company on the internet web site where I took that survey,
>   but they said I need not worry about it, that they had ways
>   of their own to deal with those 'fraud hives which are springing
>   up all over the net' which is the term they used to describe it.
>   They were most nice about it and effecient, but that was little
>   help to me over the three day weekend just passed when they were
>   closed and I had a couple dollars in dimes and nickles to last
>   me a few days.

Every happy ending has a story.  Just imagine in Y2K if that happens
to everyone.

> Does that answer your questions, Steve? No one is saying *you* or
> any net business in particular is bad. Just the insecurity of
> supposedly 'secure transactions' combined with society's bent for
> defrauding one another when its easy to hide, and the inherent
> inability for a consumer to touch, examine and test the product being
> purchased when on the net create a very volatile situation, one that
> I don't wish to be part of. 

What do you think of sites like www.thepubliceye.com and such like?

> Not only that, but late last night, when it was time for my midnight
> nourishment, I waddled off down the street to the corner gas station
> and convenience store, for my supply of gas station style microwave
> sandwhiches, cigarettes and pastries for this morning's breakfast
> only to reach the cash register and discover I had left my wallet
> with my ATM card and all my money where I live. The clerk (and what
> do you expect in those places overnight?) was an eighteen year old
> kid earning minimum wage, on probation for some petty offense some-
> where. He said to me "Oh, that's okay Mr. Townson. I know you and you
> are a very cool guy. You can bring the money to my boss in the
> morning or to me tomorrow night. We trust you. Those doughnuts you 
> have are left over from this morning, so I will only charge you
> half price."

> Any businesses on the net using that same protocol? (snicker)  PAT]

We have a few major accounts that have net terms with us.  But I would 
certainly agree not to order doughnuts through the mail.


Regards,

Steve

http://www.sellcom.com
Cyclades Siemens EnGenius Zoom at discount prices.
SSL Secure VISA/MC/AMEX Online ordering
Listed at http://www.thepubliceye.com as SELLCOM
New Brick Wall "non-MOV" surge protection

------------------------------

From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steven J Sobol)
Subject: Re: You Believe *67 Works?
Date: 9 Jul 1999 04:35:06 GMT
Organization: North Shore Technologies Corp. 888.480.4NET


On 08 Jul 1999 17:09:50 GMT, leob@best.com allegedly said

> A popular belief says that if one dials *67 and then calls a regular
> phone number, the caller will be identified as "private", "anonymous",
> etc. Not so with the phone numbers provided by www.webley.com
> (312-416-xxxx).  They will report the caller ID info to the subscriber
> even if the caller has dialed *67.

> Is it a violation of any regulations, or does it mean that, generally
> speaking, there is no way to ensure privacy when calling a regular
> phone number?

The web site says you get a personal 888 number. Since the 888 owner
gets billed for the call -- and even if you aren't getting charged per
minute, Webley still is -- they get the information. Not through
Caller ID, but through ANI which can never be blocked (and shouldn't,
since the person being billed has a right to know who's calling him).

I just went back and looked at the Webley FAQ. You are billed per minute
for 888 access, just as with any toll free number. Therefore it is to your
advantage that calling numbers are listed on your bill.


North Shore Technologies: We don't just build websites. We build relationships.
(But not with spammers. Spammers get billed a minimum of $1000 for cleanup!)
888.480.4NET [active now, forwards to my pager] - 216.619.2NET [as of 7/1/99]
Proud host of the Forum for Responsible and Ethical E-mail -  www.spamfree.org


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Don't you think they should allow each
user to decide for himself if he wishes to use the 'advantage of
having the calling numbers listed on his bill' ?  PAT]
 
------------------------------

From: Joseph Wineburgh <jwineburgh@chubb.com>
Reply-To: <jwineburgh@chubb.com>
Subject: Re: You Believe *67 Works?
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:34:10 -0400


It's a toll-free 'personal' number service. Similar to the one on the
west coast you pitch from time to time. They use ANI, which we all
know is impervious to *67 or the like.


#JOE


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: But toll-free numbers begin with 800,
888 or 877 don't they? They do not begin with 312-416 do they? If I
call a number 312-416-xxxx I can reasonably assume I am paying for
the call, can't I, and entitled to the use of *67 if I wish? I would
certainly make no such assumption of privacy regards an 800 number.
I would agree with anyone who said that overriding *67 was proper in
the case of a 'toll-free' call; the person paying for the call always
has a right to know what he is paying for. What prevents me from
obtaining a 312-416 number then advertising it as some sort of 
confidential counseling service and writing down the numbers of all
the people who call it thinking they are speaking to me with thier
calling number hidden? Is that as bad as getting an 800 number and
then charging the caller for using it (we have been through all that
here in the past) or is it worse?  Subscribers are placed in various
blocks of numbers which traditionally identify the class of service
they have for good reason.   PAT]

------------------------------

Date: 9 Jul 1999 11:26:38 -0400
From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine)
Subject: Re: Rotary Dial Telephone
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA


> True, COs are generally prepared to run for a week or more with no
> mains power. But those of us in rural America have another
> problem. Our service is provided from the CO to the residence via a
> SLC box. The SLC box has batteries which are good for 24-48
> hours. After that, the SLC goes dead.  And along with it, all the
> phones serviced by the SLC. The local techs tell me they have portable
> generators at the CO to be distributed to the SLCs if such a situation
> happens.

That seems to be the plan.  My local rural telco still uses only
SLC-24, because they can be powered from the CO, but customers don't
like them because the voltage on the line is only about 24V which
makes a lot of marginal phones and answering machines fail.  The
engineer tells me that he's not eager to go to a plan that might
require driving around on icy, snowy roads, moving generators from one
SLC to another.



John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869
johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, 
Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail

------------------------------

From: herb@herbstein.com (Herb Stein)
Subject: Re: Bell Geolocation Technology Pinpoints Wireless 911
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:46:11 GMT
Organization: newsread.com ISP News Reading Service (http://www.newsread.com)


Jon Charleston would also have died last year, last decade or last
century.  The fact that a leading edge technology was not deployed did
not cause his death. The automobile accident did.

Were I to be convinced that only E911 operators would ever have access
to the location information it would not be too disturbing. But once
it's available, the NSA, FBI, CIA and state and local law enforcement
will all want to use it.  This year the mantra will be "War on Drugs"
or Save Our Children." Next years there will be different windmills to
tilt at. (I know, never end a sentence in a preposition.)

The fact of the matter is that I'm willing to give up some safety in
the name of privacy because I do not trust our government. Especially
at the Federal level. Read alt.privacy for some frightening insight
into your loss of privacy and the consequences.

The world is not perfectly safe. People are injured. People die. We
have come so far today with safer cars and better drugs that we are in
the process of addressing the last 1% of a problem that will cost
immeasurably to solve. And the cost is not only financial. How would
you like to have your insurance company use this technology to find
out that you spend 4 hours a night 5 nights a week in a tavern parking
lot? Or your wife to use it to find out that you spend 4 nights in the
parking lot at the apartment complex where that good looking secretary
at work lives? There are major down sides to "being able to be found."

At a minimum, I'd like to see people willing to pay for this
additional safety bear the full cost. I should be able to opt
out. Implemented correctly, it should be required that I opt in.

In article <telecom19.198.4@telecom-digest.org>, <jennifer.case@telops.
gte.com> wrote:

> Herb Stein (herb@herbstein.com) wrote:

>> I don't want them to find me! If they can find me in an emergency
>> situation they can find me when I didn't brush my teeth! BIG BROTHER --
>> I'd sooner not be found.

>> In article <telecom19.185.5@telecom-digest.org>, J.F. Mezei 
>> <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:

>>> I may be thick, but do they seriously expect to retrofit all handsets to
>>> incorporate that mini-GPS unit and logic ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>>> I was really hoping that they would have use network infrastructure to
>>> locate the SIGNAL. Heck, an imprecise measurement would be sufficient
>>> if emergency vehicles were equipped with a locator device to pinpoint
>>> that phone's location. Analog phone networks have had this equipment
>>> for a long time to find fraudsters.

> I'm sure Jon Charleston's family don't share your sentiments.

> It's too bad that can't perfect the technology and mandate regulations so 
> they can only find you if you let them, i.e. dial 9-1-1.


Herb Stein
The Herb Stein Group
www.herbstein.com
herb@herbstein.com
314 215-3584

------------------------------

From: herb@herbstein.com (Herb Stein)
Subject: Re: Calling Number ID in California
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 16:08:04 GMT
Organization: newsread.com ISP News Reading Service (http://www.newsread.com)


Hi-

Maybe I'm crazy, but let me describe my use of CNID. I have it on my
home line. I do not have it on my business line. I want to talk to my
friends and family on the home line and avoid telemarketers. I want to
talk to any and all potential customers on my business line. I'm
located in Missouri if that matters to anyone.

I never block CNID delivery except maybe to jerk a friend around. I
don't have per-line blocking, so I suppose if I called a suicide
hotline and forgot to block CNID I might accidently be saved. 
Otherwise I think CNID is largely a non-issue. I always answer
"Out of area" calls. I never answer "Anonymous" calls. When I do get
CNID, I don't answer the carpet cleaners, siding salesmen etc.

The best way to avoid the anonymous calls is with your own software
and/or hardware. Most modern modems support CNID features. Answer the
anonymous call and play back a message designed to waste as much of
their time as possible.  This means the the call has supervised and is
costing the caller money. This doesn't happen,I don't think, if you
use the phone companies blocking feature.  It's probably the only
effective method to eliminate these calls.

In article <telecom19.200.6@telecom-digest.org>, lauren@vortex.com (Lauren 
Weinstein) wrote:

<Editteng for brevity>

> - At the risk of rehashing an old discussion, the fundamental flaw with
>   CNID is that it identifies a line at a particular location, NOT the
>   person making a call.  An individual or business may wish to make outward
>   calls on private, unlisted lines, while incoming calls are routed through
>   a PBX or switchboard.  They may have no problem at all with revealing
>   their identity, but shouldn't be forced to reveal the particular internal
>   number from which they are calling.  Similarly, if someone is visiting at
>   someone else's house, or a doctor's office, or whatever, it shouldn't be
>   required that they reveal that location to the callee--it's none of the
>   callee's business *where* the caller happens to be at the moment, and in
>   fact in some situations that information could be very invasive.

> There are a few situations where CNID even in its current form has proven
> useful here -- especially in automated forwarding to cellular phones and
> such.  But in all these cases, direct use of the *82 per-call unblocking
> code can enable the specialized functions when really necessary.

> --Lauren--
> Lauren Weinstein
> lauren@vortex.com
> Moderator, PRIVACY Forum --- http://www.vortex.com
> Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy
> Host, "Vortex Daily Reality Report & Unreality Trivia Quiz"
>  --- http://www.vortex.com/reality


Herb Stein
The Herb Stein Group
www.herbstein.com
herb@herbstein.com
314 215-3584

------------------------------

From: herb@herbstein.com (Herb Stein)
Subject: Re: Calling Number ID vs. Unlisted Numbers
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 16:10:14 GMT
Organization: newsread.com ISP News Reading Service (http://www.newsread.com)


I believe that, as a general rule, I receive the CNID of both non-published 
and unlisted numbers here in St. Louis.

In article <telecom19.201.8@telecom-digest.org>, lauren@vortex.com (Lauren 
Weinstein) wrote:
> Greetings.  Contrary to what was stated in a recent piece excerpted
> from the L.A. Times on this topic seen in a recent TELECOM digest,
> there is in general no direct, default relationship between unlisted
> numbers and Calling Number ID blocking status.  Even here in
> California, where per-line CNID blocking is available, you don't just
> get it automatically when you have an unlisted number -- you have to
> ask for it.  It would certainly have seemed logical for unlisted
> numbers to have CNID blocking by default, and attempts were made to
> mandate this setting, but they were not adopted.


Herb Stein
The Herb Stein Group
www.herbstein.com
herb@herbstein.com
314 215-3584

------------------------------

From: pete-weiss@psu.edu (Pete Weiss)
Subject: Re: Calling Number ID vs. Unlisted Numbers
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 08:44:13 -0400
Organization: Penn State University -- Office of Administrative Systems


On Thu, 8 Jul 99 10:17 PDT, lauren@vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein) wrote:

> So just because you have an unlisted number, don't assume you have
> Calling Number ID blocking!

Good advice: assume nothing.

Here is Bell Atlantic PA land, they (BA) provide a toll-free number to
call to check on CLID blocking.


Pete

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #204
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Fri Jul  9 15:42:22 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA12919;
	Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:42:22 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:42:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907091942.PAA12919@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #205

TELECOM Digest     Fri, 9 Jul 99 15:42:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 205

Inside This Issue:                          Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Railroads and the Telephone/Telegraph (Re: Stentor Changes) (Mark Cuccia)
    US Admits Crypto Export Controls Are About Signals Intelligence (M Solomon)
    Hazards of the Young and Mobile (Monty Solomon)
    Help Needed Configuring SoftPhone (Raymond T. Joseph)
    Re: Rotary Dial Telephone (LARB0)
    Re: Multiple Location Cell, Landline & Long Distance Service (John Levine)
    What do Carriers Look For? (Daniel Liis)
    Pager Dilemma (Thomas Hinders)
    Re: GTE Cellular Tries to Hold Dead Man to Contract (Mike Fox)
    Re: How Secure Are Leased Lines Today? (Thor Lancelot Simon)
    Re: You Believe *67 Works? (Thor Lancelot Simon)
    Re: Jurassic Telecommunications, Part I (Mark Brader)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 13:28:43 -0500
From: Mark J. Cuccia <mcuccia@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu>
Subject: Railroads and the Telephone/Telegraph (Re: Stentor Changes)


Louis RAPHAEL wrote:

> Mark J. Cuccia wrote:

>> "In 1931, Bell Canada and the dominant provincial telcos formed
>> the 'Trans-Canada Telephone System' (TCTS). One of TCTS' major
>> goals was to form a truly Canadian coast-to-coast telephone
>> toll/transmission network, which was accomplished during that
>> year. Prior to the completion of the TCTS network, long-haul
>> telephone calls from one end of Canada to another had to traverse
>> through AT&T's Long-Lines in the US. TCTS became known as
>> Telecom-Canada in the late 1970's or early 1980's, and reorganized
>> as Stentor around 1992/93."

> How typically Canadian ... until the Trans-Canada Highway (in most
> places, an undivided two-lane highway) came around, the same had to
> be done to drive across the country ... or put the car on the train.

Something I don't think I'd mentioned in my 1996 report on the history
of Candian telephone service was that there were some earlier
experiments of long-haul voice/telephone transmission prior to the
TCTS network of 1931/32. The long-haul voice experiments were truly
intra-Canadian, not having to traverse part of the way via the US,
but were using the *TELEGRAPH* circuits of CN or CP Railways!

And in the US, there were also some early experiments of long-haul
voice/telephone transmission via telegraph channels of Western Union
and probably Postal Telegraph.



MARK_J._CUCCIA__PHONE/WRITE/WIRE/CABLE:__HOME:__(USA)__Tel:_CHestnut-1-2497
WORK:__mcuccia@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu|4710-Wright-Road|__(+1-504-241-2497)
Tel:UNiversity-5-5954(+1-504-865-5954)|New-Orleans-28__|fwds-on-no-answr-to
Fax:UNiversity-5-5917(+1-504-865-5917)|Louisiana(70128)|cellular/voicemail-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 01:14:42 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intelligence


http://tbtf.com/archive/1999-07-08.html 

  Fighting a losing battle to keep Echelon relevant

    In its petition for a re-hearing of the Bernstein case [18], the Jus-
    tice Department admits, for the first time, that the true goal of US
    export controls on cryptography is to preserve the country's ability
    to gather SIGINT. The petition is refreshingly free of the incend-
    iary cant about stopping pedophiles and drug dealers that federal
    authorities customarily emit as rationale for the ever-more-dubious
    controls.

      > The government's foreign intelligence-gathering activities
      > include signals intelligence (SIGINT), the collection and
      > analysis of information from foreign electromagnetic signals.
      > The SIGINT capabilities of the United States can be signifi-
      > cantly compromised by the use of encryption.

    [18] http://jya.com/bernstein-pet.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 01:20:23 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Hazards of the Young and Mobile


http://tbtf.com/archive/1999-07-08.html 

    ..Is your cell phone damaging your brain?

    The research arm of the cell-phone industry, Wireless Technology Re-
    search, was asked to get to the bottom of persistent rumors that
    cell-phone use may endanger human brains. Their results [33] suggest
    a correlation between cell-phone emissions and brain tumors and DNA
    breakage in rats. While far from conclusive, this research demands
    in-depth follow-up studies.

    [33] http://www.wired.com/news/print_version/technology/story/20321.html?wnpg=all

------------------------------

From: Raymond T. Joseph <rjoseph@wt.netantispam>
Subject: Help Needed Configuring SoftPhone
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 23:06:24 -0500
Organization: World Trade Network, Inc. (WT.net)


How can I set up my PC as a phone set?  I have a Sportster Voice V.90
and an AWE32 Soundblaster.  I would like to see how to make call
over POTS and also through my ISP.

Is there  wireless solution for the headset connection to the soundcard?


Ray
rjoseph@wt.net.wt.net   remove redundancy

------------------------------

From: larb0@aol.com (LARB0)
Date: 09 Jul 1999 15:11:28 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Rotary Dial Telephone


A good point ... but at least the DLC has batteries for 24 to 48 hours
 ...  you'll have a couple days to work out alternatives rather than
worrying about when you last charged the batteries in your
PCS/cellular phone.

------------------------------

Date: 9 Jul 1999 11:24:03 -0400
From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine)
Subject: Re: Multiple Location Cell, Landline & Long Distance Service
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA


> While I doubt there is much I can do about the land lines, is there
> any combination or bundle of cellular and long distance services that
> might save me a few bucks?

> I have AT&T long distance, ...

Well, there's your first mistake.  AT&T doesn't want your business.
That's what they've been telling you with their silly rules and
nuisance charges.  Pretty much any other LD carrier in the country
will be happy to bill all your LD together on one bill, with the only
per-line charge the unavoidable PICC charge that's passed through to
the local telcos.  The going rate for interstate calls is 7 or 8
cents/minute, or maybe 9 cents day, 5 cents night.

> What I'd really like is a local number in both cities that can find me
> wherever I am and reasonable long distance rates on both POTS lines
> and wireless. I'd need modem (internet) access at both locations.

I suspect you don't want to buy everything from one vendor.  For your
Internet access, any of the national ISPs offer dialup access in all
large cities and charge between $15 and $20/mo.  Some LD carriers give
you a discount on their ISP affiliates, but I haven't seen and with LD
rates low enough to make the ISP discount worth it.

For wireless, I'd look at Sprint, Omnipoint, and other PCS carriers.
You should be able to find bundled minutes packages for about 10
cents/minute, no extra for roaming or long distance.

I'm not up on follow-me services, but you might find that all you need
is remotely programmable call fowarding on your regular phone line, so
you can forward calls from one house to the other or to your mobile.


John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869
johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, 
Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail

------------------------------

From: danielliis@my-deja.com (Daniel Liis)
Subject: What do Carriers Look For?
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:25:52 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


Anyone out there have views on the top 5-10 things that Carriers want.
i.e. good price per port.


Thanks.

------------------------------

From: Thomas_Hinders@lotus.com (Thomas Hinders)
Subject: Pager Dilemma
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:57:19 -0400


I am a home office worker and my Skytel one way pager (a Motorola
Advisor Elite) is linked to my voice mail system and alerts me when a
caller is trying to reach me or when a message has been deposited.

My pager works fine everywhere except my home office, where the coverage
(or whatever) simply is not strong enough.

It does not seem to be the pager (I had three) nor does it seem to be
local EMI, as it doesn't receive any better on my front porch or back
yard.

Is there any other receiving device I might obtain to either boost the
local signal, or receive the pages via some other device?

Please email me directly and I will compile and summarize back to the list.


Tom Hinders
thomas_hinders@lotus.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 12:39:40 -0400
From: Mike Fox <mikefox@ibm.net>
Organization: not organized!
Subject: Re: GTE Cellular Tries to Hold Dead Man to Contract


Robert Bonomi wrote:

> For _real_ grins (not!), try dealing with a long-term "health club"
> contract, or (even worse) an extended lessons course from a 'martial
> arts' training studio.   Many, albeit _not_ all, of these kinds of
> places make the *bulk* of their revenues from folks who sign up for
> services and do _not_ use them.  They're usually in small-claims court
> *every*day*, with a bunch of 'breached' contracts that they're seeking
> court-ordered enforcement of payment on. I sat through about 50 of these
> proceedings one day (in virtually _no_ case did the defendant even appear),
> waiting for a case, where I was a witness, to be called.

> Death does -not- slow them down, _at_all_.

That's surprising to me, because every health-club type contract I've
ever seen has an escape clause if the customer becomes disabled and is
medically unable to continue with the program.  I think death would
qualify.


Mike

"We're not against ideas.  We're against people spreading them."
(General Augusto Pinochet of Chile)

------------------------------

From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon)
Subject: Re: How Secure Are Leased Lines Today?
Date: 9 Jul 1999 14:17:20 -0400
Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp.
Reply-To: tls@rek.tjls.com


In article <telecom19.203.4@telecom-digest.org>, John Eichler
<jeichl@acxiom.com> wrote:

> Pat,

> I would like to know if you or any of the Digest readers have any
> references to the security aspects of leased lines today.

> My gut feeling is that today such leased lines (with the possible
> exception of lines from the central office to the customer's premises)
> are more virtual rather than physical, especially when long distances
> are involved.  This would be for overseas leased lines also.  As such,
> it seems that they would be susceptible to the same interception as
> regular lines would be.

This is a very complex subject and it's not one I'm comfortable giving
a summary of the state of the art in.  As a massive oversimplification,
let me just say that while you're correct that leased lines are
aggregated with other traffic (whether that traffic is voice trunks or
data circuits of whatever bandwidth) you shouldn't assume that
eavesdropping techniques are the same.

The *spit* "anti-terrorism" bill they hammered through Congress a few
years back may change all this if its horrific provisions regarding
"law-enforcement access" are ever implemented, but by and large most
wiretapping is done not on aggregated circuits between central offices
(it's much harder to get the voice or data you want when it's buried in
an OC-12 worth of other junk!) but at the switch frame or on the "last
mile" out to the subscriber premises.

This may be different for international circuits, where the NSA, British
GCHQ, and Australian and New Zealand intelligence agencies are widely
thought to use automated systems to intercept and monitor both voice and
data communications on satellite and undersea cable systems.

Punch line: if you want data security on your leased line, use
encryption.  If you're worried about link-layer attacks, use a
link-layer data encryptor; several excellent models are available that
use triple-DES or IDEA and operate as "bumps in the wire" on
synchronous serial links of various speeds.

Don't settle for anything less, particularly not models the U.S. gov-
ernment has approved for export.  They all have some deliberately
introduced flaw.  For an international application, specify equipment
manufactured by a widely-known firm *outside the U.S.* for both ends.


Thor Lancelot Simon	                             tls@rek.tjls.com
	"And where do all these highways go, now that we are free?"

------------------------------

From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon)
Subject: Re: You Believe *67 Works?
Date: 9 Jul 1999 15:15:12 -0400
Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp.
Reply-To: tls@rek.tjls.com


In article <telecom19.204.7@telecom-digest.org>,

Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net> wrote:
> On 08 Jul 1999 17:09:50 GMT, leob@best.com allegedly said

>> A popular belief says that if one dials *67 and then calls a regular
>> phone number, the caller will be identified as "private", "anonymous",
>> etc. Not so with the phone numbers provided by www.webley.com
>> (312-416-xxxx).  They will report the caller ID info to the subscriber
>> even if the caller has dialed *67.

>> Is it a violation of any regulations, or does it mean that, generally
>> speaking, there is no way to ensure privacy when calling a regular
>> phone number?

> The web site says you get a personal 888 number. Since the 888 owner
> gets billed for the call -- and even if you aren't getting charged per
> minute, Webley still is -- they get the information. Not through
> Caller ID, but through ANI which can never be blocked (and shouldn't,
> since the person being billed has a right to know who's calling him).

That's just fine -- *if* the call is made to an 888 number, and completed
as a freephone call.

But Webley can't sidestep all the regulations on local carriers just by
pretending they're "only an 800/888 carrier" while they sell 312-xxx
numbers.  I imagine the ICC would take an *extremely* dim view of this
argument.


Thor Lancelot Simon	                              tls@rek.tjls.com
	"And where do all these highways go, now that we are free?"


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: That was my belief also in referring
the original writer to the Illinois Commerce Commission. If you want
to give tollfree service, and thus be able to get the calling party's
telephone number, give it on 800/888/877 type numbers.   PAT]

------------------------------

From: msbrader@interlog.com (Mark Brader)
Subject: Re: Jurassic Telecommunications, Part I
Date: 9 Jul 1999 15:44:10 -0400


Donald Kimberlin writes:

> ... Messages from Sayville became readable.  One of them was a copy of
> the infamous 'Zimmerman letter', in which the German Foreign Minister
> encouraged Mexico to attack the United States, to divert attention
> from the European war.  The final straw was the message on May 7, 1915
> telling German submarine U-39 to 'get Lucy', ordering the sinking of
> the passenger ship Lusitania.

Considering that the Zimmerman telegram was sent in January 1917 and
the US entered the war in April 1917, it seems fair to state that
nothing to do with the Lusitania could have been "the final straw".


Mark Brader         \ "The world little knows or cares the storm through
Toronto              \  which you have had to pass.  It asks only if you
msbrader@interlog.com \  brought the ship safely to port." --Joseph Conrad

My text in this article is in the public domain.

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #205
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Sat Jul 10 05:59:09 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA13453;
	Sat, 10 Jul 1999 05:59:09 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 05:59:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907100959.FAA13453@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #206

TELECOM Digest     Sat, 10 Jul 99 05:59:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 206

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    At DefCon: Lovable Geeks or Crackers and Phreaks? (Monty Solomon)
    Third Voice Rips Holes in Web (Monty Solomon)
    No More Late Fees (Monty Solomon)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Linc Madison)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (J.F. Mezei)
    Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers? (Linc Madison)
    Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers? (Terry Kennedy)
    Re: Qwest: Raising My Intrastate Rates and Imposing Fees (Rickman)
    Have You Used Siemens Hicom 150E (srini@global.com)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 02:24:25 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: At DefCon: Lovable Geeks or Crackers and Phreaks?


http://www.thestandard.com/articles/mediagrok_display/0,1185,5468,00.html 

At DefCon: Lovable Geeks or Crackers and Phreaks?

Time was, only Wired wrote feature articles about hacker conferences.
But this year's Melissa and Explore viruses have put malicious computer
programs on the front page. So it's not surprising to see the {New York
Times} and other outlets previewing DefCon, the annual hacker conference
which returns to a soggy Las Vegas this weekend.

To hear the Times' Matt Richtel tell it, DefCon is just a big frat
party. Geeky, mostly harmless but excessively pierced guys in their 20s
(some who "will have their first beer") can spend some quality time with
the Feds who spend the rest of the year chasing them. Richtel even got
the terminology right, differentiating between hackers and the more
malicious "crackers" - a welcome sign that even the grayest of old
media gals is becoming a bit more tech savvy. No need to worry about
these lovable pups: the worst they've done in past years is hack into
casino Web sites or "toyed with elevator systems." Don't you just want
to take one home?

Well, no one's laughing over at MSNBC. Bob Sullivan led with a warning
that a group known as the Cult of the Dead Cow would release an updated
software tool at DefCon called "Back Orifice," designed to hijack and
control Windows NT machines through the Net. "Much mischief is expected
to follow," Sullivan cautioned, shortly before the parenthetical
reminder that Microsoft is a partner in MSNBC. The Times' Richtel buried
mention of the Back Orifice tool in paragraph 13.

The Cult members must be smirking and stifling giggles when they
maintain that Back Orifice is just a network administration tool,
designed to expose security holes in NT that Microsoft should then fix.
No one who's ever dealt with a teenager is stupid enough to buy that.
But Richtel went to the trouble to quote Open Source pit-boss Eric
Raymond, who expertly told the Times that there was nothing well-meaning
in the tool and that "people who do real work don't bother with DefCon."
Grok is still trying to figure out if that includes journalists.

Bitter Cyberspace Foes Make Nice at Convention
http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/07/cyber/articles/09hacker.html
[Registration required.]

'Cult' Gives Hackers Weapon vs. NT
http://www.msnbc.com/news/287542.asp

Inside the Virus Writer's Mind
http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/20624.html

Does the Media Cause Hacking?
http://www.msnbc.com/news/287141.asp


Copyright 1999 The Industry Standard 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 02:00:34 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Third Voice Rips Holes in Web


by Chris Oakes
3:00 a.m.  9.Jul.99.PDT

Third Voice, a Web annotation utility, is more powerful than its
authors intended -- in addition to providing freedom of expression, it
can call up users' data and be used to generate fake Web pages.

Software programmers in the US and Europe have discovered security
holes that turn Third Voice into a cracking tool.

http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/20636.html


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: My, isn't that just wonderful news!
When I first reported this here and in Computer Underground Digest
a few weeks ago, it was just another case of Pat the Mindless
Moderator foaming at the mouth again; making scare tactics and using
inflamatory language to describe the service. So, now that others
are reporting what I started talking about here the week that the
software became available, would you care to listen to them also
or will you remain in denial like you were when *I* told you those
people were going to be troublesome?  PAT] 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 02:42:29 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: No More Late Fees


http://www.thestandard.com/articles/display/0,1449,5446,00.html

By Megan Barnett

The name says it all: PayMyBills.com. Launching today, it's the 
latest startup to come out of Idealab's Internet incubator in 
Pasadena, Calif. While many electronic-bill-presentment firms have 
tapped the biller and bank space with payment solutions, 
PayMyBills.com hopes to appeal to the masses.

Beginning July 19, consumers can have all of their regular bills paid 
automatically for $9.95 per month (The fee covers up to 15 bills; 
each one after that costs another 50 cents). Users have their billers 
send tabs to PayMyBills' processing center. The company opens the 
bills, scans them into an online account and sends an e-mail 
notification. The user then logs onto the account, views the bills, 
instructs PayMyBills on how and when to pay them, and the service 
automatically debits the consumer's bank account. The service works 
independent of financial institutions or billers.

"We're freeing the consumer of the entire process," says John 
Tedesco, PayMyBills' president and CEO. "By paying 100 percent of the 
bills at one site, we're removing anxiety, stress and aggravation 
from consumers' lives." Indeed, the company operates under the 
slogan: "Live life! We'll pay the bills."

Tedesco says that he and cofounder Jeff Grass conceived of the idea 
while travelling in Guatemala last summer in between years at Wharton 
business school. The pair was able to communicate with friends online 
and to keep up with news while on the road, but they returned home to 
late fees and a stack of pending utility cut-off notices due to 
unpaid balances. After examining the market during their final year 
in graduate school, the two hooked up with Idealab in April and 
opened up shop in Pasadena in May.

Virginia-based Imaging Acceptance will handle opening and scanning 
the bills. PayMyBills will complete electronic payments through Chase 
Manhattan Bank. Costs of running the operation are at their highest 
point now, Tedesco believes. As technology improves and more billers 
come online, fewer paper bills will arrive, needing to be handled the 
old-fashioned way.

The electronic-bill-payment market opportunity is tremendous. 
Forrester Research estimates that less than two million of the 92 
million consumers online currently use a bill-payment service. 
Consumers haven't committed to it largely because of restrictions on 
either the bank or biller side of the equation.

Appealing to consumers will likely work for PayMyBills.com in the 
short term, but players are entering this marketplace at record 
speed. Last month, Wells Fargo, First Union and Chase Manhattan 
formed a consortium to handle payment for both billers and consumers. 
Players such as CheckFree have had success in serving billers and 
banks; however, most of the bills they process still involve some 
kind of paper exchange. Ironically, the spread of paperless billing 
could spell trouble for third-party sites like PayMyBills. When the 
billing world finally catches the Internet wave, consumers might 
prefer to manage their finances at a bank or finance site.


Copyright 1999 The Industry Standard

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:05:06 -0700
From: LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com (Linc Madison)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Organization: LincMad Consulting


In one of the moderator's notes on this thread, PAT mentioned a "security
code" printed on Visa cards, and said this was the first four digits of
the card number, printed flat, directly above the embossed number.  I
think the "security code" that various web merchants are now asking for
is the one on the signature stripe on the back of the card.  If you look
at the signature stripe, you will see your 13- or 16-digit card number
with a three-digit suffix, not immediately obvious from the card number.
That is the code number that the web merchants should be asking for, not
the bank code number that is the first four digits of the card number.

Example:

Card number 4123 4567 8901 2345, exp 02/01
Bank code   4123
Security code 4123 4567 8901 2345 123

Visa, MasterCard, and Discover all now use this system.  I don't know
about American Express, as I no longer have an AmEx card, but I would
be surprised if they're not doing the same sort of thing.  If you have
a major card that doesn't have a three-digit suffix code printed on
the back, I'd be surprised if it isn't very close to its expiry date.


** Do not send me unsolicited commercial e-mail spam of any kind **
Linc Madison  *  San Francisco, California  *   Telecom@LincMad-com
URL:< http://www.lincmad.com > * North American Area Codes & Splits
>> NOTE: replies sent to <Telecom@LincMad-com> will be read sooner!

------------------------------

From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 19:08:01 -0400


Steve Winter wrote:

> ACK!!!!  (excuse me) ahem...  What is to stop that clerk from writing
> down your credit card info from the sales slip

Correct. And nothing prevents the e-commerce shop from doing the same. 

HOWEVER, each credit card merchant is monitored by his credit-card
agency/bank for fraud amounts.  If too much fraud in percentage of
sales happens in his shop, it will ring some bells.

Also, without a physical card, it restricts the fraudster to phone
orders (or e-commerce which is essentially the same). And since phone
orders generally require an address where the merchandise is to be
shipped, it is much harder to maintain anonymity. (not impossible, but
harder). What is left are shops who collude with the fraudster. And
they will eventually be detected due to the high fraud amounts.

Also, some of the larger banks have sophisticated fraud detection
software that analyses the purchase patterns of stolen cards for usage
before and after the theft. They can often state that card-X was
stolen by the same gang/individual as card-Y because of matching
patterns. And on a grander scale, if a single shop or country is
involved in a lot of stolen cards, it will ring bells. (for instance,
a large percentage of counterfeit cards are often associated with a
legitimate trip to an asian city by the cardholder).

Furthermore, professional credit-card gathering outfits act as
resellers. They will sell the stolen credit card for a certain amount
and provide the buyer with a "time since it was stolen" to gauge how
fresh the card is.

In an e-commerce environment, these thiefs won't have an easy way to
collect real money from the sale of credit card numbers (can't send
money via email !  (yet). The one advantage is that the card number
will stay fresh until it is first mis-used since the cardholder will
have no reason to declare it stolen (since the physical card is not
stolen).

Counterfeit card operators are perhaps the biggest beneficiaries from
"sniffing cards" on the internet as they can produce bona-fide hard
copy cards which they can sell for real money on the street, and will
also often have the address information of the legitimate cardholder
in the e-commerce transaction.

> No no no no no!!!! (excuse me) ahem ... I mean how can you be so sure
> that the employee or anyone else with access to those slips doesn't
> copy your number name exp date etc and then do something dishonorable
> with it?

This is a problem with e-commerce. You have no real way of knowing if
an online store is legitimate or not. A teenage kid is propably
capable of faking a very professional looking store. And a large
monster shop may nt have in-house expertise to produce a nice web site
because their expertise is focused on older mainframe technologies. 

Which "store front" will you trust ?

>> net are trying to convince everyone it is, since that is about the
>> only way they have to do business at present, but based on what we
>> know about net technology today, SSL just doesn't cut it.

 From my understanding, SSL can be implemented in many ways. If you
use the same key for all transactions, it is not as safe as if you
request a new key for each transaction. There is a considerable
performance/response time consideration even in the use of SSL.

>> We trust you. Those doughnuts you have are left over from this
>> morning, so I will only charge you half price."
>> Any businesses on the net using that same protocol? (snicker)  PAT]

I have had dealing with stores via email that ressembled this. One
even agreed to photocopy the part of a book I needed and paper-mailed
me the photocopies at only the cost of the copies and shipping.

Remember that some of the smaller e-commerce storefronts are just a
catalogue front end to and e-mail back hand and transactions are
handled manually by a real human being which may call or email you to
confirm or inform you of backorders etc. And some are highly automated
faceless computers that blindly process your order and result in
someone in an assembly line putting the right item(s) in the box with
your address on it. But this not too different from large mail-order
firms who have dealt on the phone-in-orders.

The minute a computer is involved banks and people get very
nervous. But I wonder why nobody has ever attemped to spy on the
inbound phone line for a large mail order firm. Talk about stealing
credit card numbers by the dozens !  Stealing from a site such as
amazon.com would be harder if they use ssl.

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: What about the situation recently where
> someone was at amazon.com and passed their bank account number only
> to later have their account cleaned out?

I am curious, does Amazon actually require bank account numbers? Why ?
I though that they would stick to credit card orders only.

How would your opinion change of e-commerce if you found out that it
was an amazon.com employee who fraudulently stole a credit card
number? Or an amazon.com IT employee who opened a back-door so one of
the thieves could listen in on the conversations?

Low and behold, while you are at it, how do you know if an ATM has a
line which is physically secure and encrypted? Worse, yet, do you use
banking-by-phone? That is totally unencrypted and how do you know
nobody is listening in while you type you card's digits and pin number?

And if you send a check by paper mail, how do you know it does not get
intercepted and your bank account info as well as signature stolen/scanned?

> What about the 'everyone
> qualifies for a VISA card' program run by the outfit in Clearwater,

This is an issue you can take up with Visa International who allowed
such an outfit to use their names. I suspect the second Visa Intl
finds out one Visa issuer is fraudulent, they'll lose their license
very fast. This has nothing to do with e-commerce.

> effective one?  What about the numerous 'adult' sites which require
> the user to present a credit card as 'proof of being over 18' who say
> they will not charge the credit card while you use your 'free membership'
> and then put through some outrageous charge anyway? 

Sorry, if you give your credit card number out to an unknown entity, it is
your fault. Same could be said to a seedy sex shop who will make copies of
your credit card etc etc.

> What about the
> numerous commercial sites which absolutely insist that you exchange
> cookies with them to merely look at their site and then proceed to
> trade those cookies around with other devious merchants like themselves?

That is another issue not related to e-commerce per say.

> You are going to sit there and tell me fraud on the internet is purely
> a one-sided thing with the netizens totally at fault and the companies
> completely innocent of any wrong doing?    PAT]

1- e-commerce captures something very powerful: IMPULSE BUYING. As
such, yes, a lot of consumers are lured to a site and buy stuff with
their eyes closed.

2- dis-honest merchants will fairly quickly lose their right-to-bill
credit card privileges if their fraud rates rise above certain
levels. It is no different than other stores or mail-order-by-phone
outfits.

The only difference in e-commerce is that transmission uses the
internet.  Should those info-mercials be banned on TV because you
can't see what type of store is at the other end ?


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Instead of my stance being internet
versus real-place, perhaps I should say it is more a matter of
preferring to do business in places where I know them and they know
me. I just feel better that way. My first choice is to shop in a
place where we know each other locally. My second choice is to shop
locally even if we do not know each other; I always can go back to
see them if necessary. If you add a long distance to the transaction
it becomes okay if the company is pretty well known; but if you do
not know *who* you are dealing with combined with not really knowing
*where* they are at other than being a few strokes on your keyboard,
then it becomes uncomfortable for many people, including myself. And
as you point out, a con-artist can put up a beautiful looking page
on the web; a highly professional looking commercial site, then sit
there with no intention of delivering on the goods. Some have done
just that. 

And yes, in personal face to face transactions you can get stung very
badly also. Some can be absolutely horrible in their cruelty. A case
in Chicago several years ago involved a travel agent responsible
for a school trip to Washington DC. Fifty or sixty kids, all 14-15 years
old would take the trip. It will cost quite a bit of money, so the kids
wash cars, sell candy bars door-to-door, do whatever, and turn over
all their money to the teacher, who has one of those big 'thermometer'
charts on the wall where the marks each day show how close they are
to reaching their goal. The kids' parents pitch in and the money is
finally raised, and money is delivered to the travel agent. Okay, see
you all bright and early at the airport next Tuesday morning.

Comes Tuesday, here are two busloads of school kids at the airport
with their teacher and a couple of parent chaparones. No one at
Ohare seems to know anything about this trip. A phone call finds the
'travel agent' (who had set up shop for a couple months in a small
furnished-office rental place) has split with about a hundred thousand
dollars worth of airline ticket stock, and of course monies collected
for at least one high school class trip. So here stands this group
of minority kids and their adult chaperones wondering what they are
going to do now. It turns out the 'agent' had not bothered to pay for
the hotel reservations either. 

A sensitive passenger service agent put in a phone call to United
Airline's executive offices a few miles away and said 'someone had
come over and deal with this pretty fast ...' an executive from the
airline was there about 30 minutes later and had a conference with
the teacher and other adults. They still had not told the kids much
of anything except that there 'would be a delay' in getting started.

The airline executive needed about an hour to get approval from his
superiors to get approval to issue a credit slip for an amount of
money that size that could be taken over to the ticket agents and
get a ticket for everyone, and someone at their headquarters office
called the hotel in Washington, DC to get the rooms needed, which
they were fortunatly able to get on such short notice. In the story
in the {Chicago Tribune} about it the next day, the exec said he
went over to talk to the group a few minutes later, and by that
point apparently all the kids had found out about it; a couple of
them asked him if it was true that 'someone has stolen all of our
money' ... he said 'I see all these guys standing there with their
duffle bags, Walkman radios, poloroid cameras and other stuff, and
it about broke my heart telling them that yes, someone had stolen
their money but that the airline would be resolving the matter
with the person involved and they'd be able to go on their trip.'
With a delay of only about four hours they were on their way. 

So is it better/worse to get ripped off in a personal transaction
in your community by someone who smiles sweetly at you while they
are looting your purse in their storefront just a few blocks away
who was recommended by someone you know, or is it better/worse to
have a retired school teacher learning her way around the internet
get ripped off by a 'virtual storefront' who has never been in
contact with the 'merchant' before or since? 

And many Chicagoans will recall the situation a couple years ago
involving Margaret Hillis. Miss Hillis was the director of the Chicago
Symphony Chorus, an accomplished musician, an extremely creative
person. She employed a young man as her personal secretary and gave
him the responsibility for her financial affairs, since by her
own admission she was not very good with things involving her credit
card bills, reconciling her checking account, etc. You can see it
coming already can't you ... the young man and his roomate had a
taste for the better things in life also, the finer restaurants,
the more expensive seats at the Opera; when it all came unraveled,
Miss Hillis, an older lady of very high esteem in Chicago was miss-
ing about a hundred thousand dollars. There was some concern at
first that some of it was money which belonged to Symphony, but it
all had come from her personal funds. The young man and his
gigolo, money-hungry roomate were both arrested but the money was
long since gone, and once they got out on bail, so were they. 

She couldn't have gotten hurt that bad by turning all her bills over
to that new company on the internet and having them handle it.  PAT]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:27:46 -0700
From: LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com (Linc Madison)
Subject: Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers?
Organization: LincMad Consulting


In article <telecom19.203.8@telecom-digest.org>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.chinet.com> wrote:

> I'm not aware that there is an existing privacy right. Wireless
> communications take place in the shared public spectrum. Use of a
> pager does not convey an exclusive license to a portion of the
> spectrum while telemetry is sent.

> Even those who do hold licenses can only exclude others from
> broadcasting, not from listening.

> The federal cell phone eavesdropping law is an exception. I still
> consider it to be an outrage.

> We have the right to be secure in our person, papers, and
> possessions. But we have another right, a natural right to use the
> public way. That includes the airwaves. The more rights we grant
> individuals to use the public way and exclude everyone else, the more
> we infringe upon our own rights.

By that logic, law enforcement should be permitted to do a wiretap
of any regular telephone line, without a court order, with only the
consent of the telco, since it is not necessary to enter the
subscriber's premises to do so.  Indeed, if the wiretap could be
effected at the point where the telephone wires are crossing the
"public way," then your logic would allow for unregulated wiretaps
by anyone for any purpose, so long as they did not damage anyone's
property.

So, yes, the fact that the conduct I've just described is extremely
illegal does infringe upon your rights to wantonly eavesdrop on your
neighbors/friends/business competitors/etc., but I, for one, think
that's a very GOOD thing.

As to the right to privacy, clearly the U.S. needs to follow the
lead of California and put it explicitly into the Constitution.


** Do not send me unsolicited commercial e-mail spam of any kind **
Linc Madison  *  San Francisco, California  *   Telecom@LincMad-com
URL:< http://www.lincmad.com > * North American Area Codes & Splits
>> NOTE: replies sent to <Telecom@LincMad-com> will be read sooner!

------------------------------

From: Terry Kennedy <terry@spcunb.spc.edu>
Subject: Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers?
Organization: St. Peter's College, US
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 03:19:06 GMT


Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.chinet.com> writes:

> The federal cell phone eavesdropping law is an exception. I still
> consider it to be an outrage.

  Indeed. If cellphones were supposed to be secure, they would have
been encrypted.

  However, the same set of statutes forbids receiving pager signals,
except for tone-only pagers. Given that any random pager frequency
likely carries a mix of POCSAG, Flex, and tone-only traffic, this is
obviously unenforceable.  However, the end result is that frequencies
that have any pager traffic at all are illegal to listen to (since I
don't know of any tone-only systems still in use).


	Terry Kennedy		  Operations Manager, Academic Computing
	terry@spcvxa.spc.edu	  St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA
        +1 201 915 9381 (voice)   +1 201 435-3662 (FAX)

------------------------------

From: Rickman <spamgoeshere4@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Qwest: Raising My Intrastate Rates and Imposing Fees
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 18:10:56 -0400


Mike Beaty wrote:

> OUCH!  Qwest just jacked up my in-state rates by 50% without notifying
> me.  *AND* they added a $1.93 fee per line, again without notification.
> This meant that for me, with two lines, my new monthly fee is $3.86.

> My June bill went up *over* 100% from what I would have been charged in
> May.  This is due to my in-state calls and the new fees.

> Needless to say, I'm looking for another long-distance carrier.

> I advise all Qwest customers to look at their bills and see if the same
> is true for them.

> When I initially signed up with Qwest, the telemarketer said that I'd
> have 10 cents/minute and no monthly fees for as long as I was a
> customer.  Now it appears there are exceptions to this promise.

> Living in Colorado, my in-state rate went from 10 to 15 cents a minute.
> Out-of-state remained at 10 cents/minute.

> Can anyone recommend a long-distance supplier which:

>      *  Has no monthly minimum
>      *  Charges no monthly fee
>      *  Has 10 cents/minute for interstate and intrastate calls (lower
>         rates would be fine ;-) 24 hours/day, 7 days/week.
> 
> Note that this described the plan I had from Qwest until this month.

> So, Qwest is likely to lose a long-time customer, at least relative to
> how long they've been providing long-distance service.  Glad that I
> don't own Qwest stock (which has seen a recent dramatic fall in value
> ;-).

I recently switched to ACT/erbia which promises 6.9 cents per min
interstate and 5.25 per min intrastate in VA. You can check them out at
their web site at http://advanced-communication.com/

They claim there is no minimum, no monthly fee and the calls are
billed in one second increments. I don't see a down side. They bill
direct rather than over the internet or on your phone bill.

I have them at one of my houses and just switched at the other. 


Rick Collins

rick.collins@XYarius.com

remove the XY to email me.

Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company
Specializing in DSP and FPGA design


Arius
4 King Ave
Frederick, MD 21701-3110
301-682-7772 Voice
301-682-7666 FAX

Internet URL http://www.arius.com

------------------------------

From: srini@global.com
Subject: Have You Used Siemens Hicom 150E
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 06:28:31 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


Hello,

I am considering the purchase of a Siemens Hicom 150E phone system.
If you have used this system, I would like to hear your opinion about
it.


Thanks,

srinis@dejanews.com

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #206
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Sat Jul 10 21:38:31 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA08671;
	Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:38:31 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:38:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907110138.VAA08671@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #207

TELECOM Digest     Sat, 10 Jul 99 21:38:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 207

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts (Fred Goodwin)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Rickman)
    Re: Please Contact FCC re: SBC/Ameritech Merger (Steven Lichter)
    Re: Hazards of the Young and Mobile (L. Winson)
    Re: Hazards of the Young and Mobile (myself@best.com)
    Re: Hazards of the Young and Mobile (Pete Weiss)
    International Calls to Cellular = Big $$$ (Admin)
    Re: Request For Local Calling Area Information (Tony Toews)
    Re: Baby Steps Toward Privacy Marketing (Thor Lancelot Simon)
    Re: Third Voice Rips Holes in Web (Thomas A. Horsley)
    Re: Satellite GPS Can Locate Wireless Phones Within 15 Feet (L. Erickson)
    Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intelligence (Mezei)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (James Bellaire)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Steve Winter)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Johnnie Leung)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (James H. Cloos Jr.)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Goodwin <goodwin@tri.sbc.com>
Subject: Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:09:15 -0500 


monty@roscom.com (Monty Solomon) wrote in <telecom19.203.7@telecom
-digest.org>: 

> There are two competing bills that would protect data compilers by
> prohibiting the duplication of their databases. Critics fear the more
> restrictive of the two, Collections of Information Antipiracy Act
> (HR354), would make criminals of companies that collect and aggregate
> data -- companies like Yahoo and Amazon.com.

> http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/20550.html

The proposed law says you can collect facts independently of
extracting them from a database:

      Nothing in this chapter shall restrict any person from 
      independently gathering information or using information 
      obtained by means other than extracting it from a 
      collection of information gathered . . . by another 
      person ...

Could someone please explain to me how HR354 makes criminals out of
Amazon and Yahoo?


Fred Goodwin, CMA 
Associate Director -- Technology Program Management
SBC Technology Resources, Inc.
9505 Arboretum, 9th Floor, Austin, TX 78759
fgoodwin@tri.sbc.com
(512) 372-5921
(512) 372-5991 fax

------------------------------

From: Rickman <spamgoeshere4@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 17:13:59 -0400


Steve Uhrig wrote:

> Steven Lichter wrote:

>> Here is a good one. Pacific Bell switchroom telephones are blocked by
>> default. I found that out when I had to call home while working in
>> one, my phone blocks anything without CID.

>         Probably for good reason. I keep all of our switch room phones
> blocked also. If you call a customer with the CID on, they think they
> now have a personal phone number to report their problems to. I get
> enough phone calls each day without having customers calling in
> wanting to report their problems to me instead of the 800 reporting
> number.

But how do you call people if 60% or 80% (I forget which) of the people
in CA have you blocked? 

Or are you in another state?


Rick Collins
rick.collins@XYarius.com
remove the XY to email me.
Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company
Specializing in DSP and FPGA design

Arius
4 King Ave
Frederick, MD 21701-3110
301-682-7772 Voice
301-682-7666 FAX

Internet URL http://www.arius.com

------------------------------

From: stevenl11@aol.comstuffit (Steven Lichter)
Date: 09 Jul 1999 21:32:06 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Please Contact FCC re: SBC/Ameritech Merger


It would an act of God to stop that merger now.

Now on the other hand stopping the GTE HellAtlantic would have a chance.


Apple Elite II 909-359-5338. Home of GBBS/LLUCE, support for the 
Apple II and Mac. 24 hours  2400/14.4.  OggNet Server.

------------------------------

From: lwinson@bbs.cpcn.com (L. Winson)
Subject: Re: Hazards of the Young and Mobile
Date: 9 Jul 1999 22:14:09 GMT
Organization: The PACSIBM SIG BBS


Aren't hand-held cell phones a much lower power rating than the older
style "bag" phones to avoid the risk of electronic field emissions?

------------------------------

From: myself@best.com
Subject: Re: Hazards of the Young and Mobile
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:09:03 GMT
Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America


On Fri, 9 Jul 1999 01:20:23 -0400, Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com> wrote:

> http://tbtf.com/archive/1999-07-08.html 

>    ..Is your cell phone damaging your brain?

>    The research arm of the cell-phone industry, Wireless Technology Re-
>    search, was asked to get to the bottom of persistent rumors that
>    cell-phone use may endanger human brains. Their results [33] suggest
>    a correlation between cell-phone emissions and brain tumors and DNA
>    breakage in rats. While far from conclusive, this research demands
>    in-depth follow-up studies.

What else is new?

"We did some research and we found that we need more money."

------------------------------

From: pete-weiss@psu.edu (Pete Weiss)
Subject: Re: Hazards of the Young and Mobile
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 09:20:11 -0400
Organization: Penn State University -- Office of Administrative Systems


On Fri, 9 Jul 1999 01:20:23 -0400, Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com> wrote:

> Their results [33] suggest
> a correlation between cell-phone emissions and brain tumors and DNA
> breakage in rats. 

I was unaware that they had cell-phones small enough for rats to use ;-)


Pete

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:18:33 -0400
From: Admin <Antilles@AnteLink.com>
Subject: International Calls to Cellular = Big $$$


Dear Pat,

I have just received a comprehensive rate proposal (for our T-1
dedicated service) from one of the larger carriers and I note that
pricing per minute to international cellular phones is between $.20
and $.30 USD per minute higher than the per-minute cost to a wired
phone in those same countries.  I know that the policy outside of
N. America is that "caller pays" but Holy Cow!

Perhaps list members in those countries (or US carrier "insiders") can
comment on what the price difference per minute **really** is with
their country and/or whether this is the latest carrier
"inflate-the-bill" technique.

Countries that appear on the rate sheet which have "cellular" as well
as "regular" rates are: Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Brazil,
Columbia, Ecuador, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Israel, Italy, Japan,
Netherlands, New Zealand, Singapore, Sweden, Switzerland and the U.K.
(I have no doubt that this list will grow.  Programming for resellers
will be a nightmare for sure.)


Doug Terman
Operations Manager
Antilles Engineering, Ltd.

------------------------------

From: ttoews@telusplanet.net (Tony Toews)
Subject: Re: Request For Local Calling Area Information
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:41:44 GMT


Shawn Chandler <schandler@ciaccess.com> wrote:

> I was unable to get a database or
> book containing tables for determining whether a call from phone #
> xxx-xxxx was local to phone # yyy-yyyy.

> In the front of some phone books there are lists of local calling
> areas, ie if you live in area code 519 exchange 683, you can call
> local to area code 519 exchanges 351,352,354,355,359,380,436,627,692.

For what it's worth this used to be very important to Fidonet sysops.
All netmail (Internet name is email) and echoes (Internet name is
newsgroups) used to be transferred via long distance call.  As a
result it was very important to know which phone numbers were long
distance and which were local.  The long distance phone numbers would
be called only in the cheap calling time as per your local telco.

The sysops would pass this information around in the form of text
files for the front door programs and was given to any new sysops.

Special arrangements would be made to "relay" echomail and netmail via
BBSs in various local calling areas which in turn were local to more
calling areas.

Now however, up here in Canada anyhow, we have $20 per month unlimited
evenings and weekend calling so this is less of a consideration.  Also
much of Fidonets echomail and netmail is now transferred via FTP
protocols.

Fidonet itself, of course, has lost, maybe 70% to 90% of its traffic
in North America in the last few years as the Internet has become a
local phone call to many people.  It is still popular in Europe and
other places around the world due to the lack of cheap ISPs and
expensive cost of local calls.

Now if you could hook up to the Fidonet network and ask your question
in some sysop areas you might very well be flooded with these files.



Tony Toews, Independent Computer Consultant
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at 
   http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
VolStar http://www.volstar.com Manage hundreds or 
   thousands of volunteers for special events.

------------------------------

From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon)
Subject: Re: Baby Steps Toward Privacy Marketing
Date: 10 Jul 1999 02:44:43 -0400
Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp.
Reply-To: tls@rek.tjls.com


In article <telecom19.204.1@telecom-digest.org>, Monty Solomon
<monty@roscom.com> wrote:

> http://tbtf.com/archive/1999-07-08.html 

>    Personally I consider these actions to be baby steps. The existence
>    of a privacy policy does not demonstrate a company's commitment to
>    protect consumer privacy -- merely a pledge not to violate it in
>    secret. 

Exactly.  The privacy policy for one (prominent) web site I did some
work on was truly outrageous -- about 80 lines of legal gobbledegook
that, ultimately, boiled down to a simple notion: you, the user, have
no privacy at all.  They'll sell your data to anyone they want to,
without telling you, in aggregate or in specific ... you get the idea.

Given that, all this "we won't do business with you if you don't have
a privacy policy" garbage seems like an ornate marketing smokescreen
to ward off legislative action.


Thor Lancelot Simon	                               tls@rek.tjls.com
	"And where do all these highways go, now that we are free?"

------------------------------

From: Tom.Horsley@worldnet.att.net (Thomas A. Horsley)
Subject: Re: Third Voice Rips Holes in Web
Date: 10 Jul 1999 08:51:58 -0400
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services


> would you care to listen to them also
> or will you remain in denial like you were when *I* told you those
> people were going to be troublesome?

You still have to install the Third Voice software on your computer
to have a problem. Since only morons will use it, only morons have
problems :-).


>>==>> The *Best* political site <URL:http://www.vote-smart.org/> >>==+
      email: Tom.Horsley@worldnet.att.net icbm: Delray Beach, FL      |
<URL:http://home.att.net/~Tom.Horsley> Free Software and Politics <<==+


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: No, no ... the morons who install it
will not have the problem, the web sites where they use it will have
the problem. At least that's how I read it.  Was I wrong?   PAT]

------------------------------

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Satellite GPS Can Locate Wireless Phones Within 15 Feet
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 05:21:31 PST
Organization: Shadownet


Bud Couch <Bud_Couch@adc.com> writes:

> If I really let my paranoia run, I can see where it would not be
> difficult to set the unit into a micropower "sleep" mode with the
> power switch; a mode in which it would not routinely contact the local
> cell, but which would respond to a specific "location" code command. 
> Then the only way to defeat the system would be to remove the battery.

> I dread the day that carrying a cell phone with the battery disconn-

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Well we can fix you anyway. New cell
> phones will be required to have a tiny little battery inside them
> just like laptop computers have to keep the clock running and things
> having to do with passwords in the BIOS stored, etc. That battery
> will get its charge from the bigger battery which you propose to
> take out. So I don't believe we will have any trouble out of you or
> people that think like you do. And we will not allow any tampering
> with cell phones or computers at all. All of them (phones and comp-
> uters) will be licensed by the government and programmed in the ROM
> or read only memory to report their location at all times and what
> tricks their human owners are engaged in. Not only will it be against
> the law to remove the battery from your cell phone, it will be against
> the law to disconnect your computer from the phone line, or disconnect
> its microphone or camera attachments. Sound okay to you? 

And in both his scenario and yours, I can just stick the phone inside
my lunchbox, which *just happens* to be all metal and form a nice
faraday cage when closed. Heck, just wrapping it in alumium foil may
work.

The phone can't respond to signals that never reach it, nor can it send
a signal that'll get anywhere outside the box. :-)


Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com	<--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com	<--last resort


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: And you can shape up and fly right,
or you won't be in a position to have a lunchbox at all; in fact you
may be in someone's metal 'lunchbox' one of these days. :)    PAT]

------------------------------

From: J.F. Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intelligence
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 18:08:22 -0400


Monty Solomon wrote:

>> The SIGINT capabilities of the United States can be signifi-
>> cantly compromised by the use of encryption.

Either I am very stupid or the US government is very naive here. Can
someone please explain to me why preventing export of a US encryption
product would prevent foreigners from encrypting their data/messages
with foreign-built encryption systems? 

Does the United States of America *really* believe that it is the only
one of the world capable of building encryption systems that cannot be
defeated?  Does it really believe that other developped countries
don't have good enough education systems to produce scientists capable
of generating very strong algorythms?

I am sorry if this sounds nasty, but I sincerely fail to understand
why the United States of America continues to insist on preventing
encryption exports.  I assume that there must be some valid reason
somewhere.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 11:19:27 -0500
From: James Bellaire <bellaire@tk.com>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce


In TELECOM Digest V19 #202, Pat wrote:

> But if your business on the net is legitmate, try adding these few
> extras to your validation process --

> 'What is the security code on your card?' I believe the answer is
> always that they will be the same as the first four embossed digits
> although some VISA operators may choose to not put them there or
> use them. A person with only a fraud number and name might well not
> know about 'those extra four tiny digits printed above the account
> number.'

Thanks for telling them.  Personally I don't like asking for the
"security code" because some folks may confuse that term with PIN
number -- and give you a non matching number.

> ALWAYS get the address in the user's own words, and spend the couple
> cents extra in the sales authorization process to use Address
> Verification Service. Make sure the user knows this is the ONLY
> address which can be used for delivery.

Most net commerce transactions I have done have required address
verification -- and this is where the first four numbers come in handy
too.  Ask what bank the card was issued by.  Still possible to know
with a photocopy, but a good use for those digits.

The general ideas about identifying the IP numbers and networks are useful.
 My wife got suckered on one of those 'shipping charge' scams
(mentioned in another post) at work about two years ago.  When she got
the book and the bill she sent it straight back by return UPS.  They
won't fool her twice.

I treat e-commerce the same way as I treat mail to my home.  If the
pitch is unsolicited, the pitch is pitched.  If the deal is too good
to be true, it probably is.  Trust but verify.  (Any other cliche
phrases?  Still good advice.)  My first and hard fast rule is a FIXED
ADDRESS for the business.

> is someone going to log in to your site at 5 AM on Sunday morning to
> make a purchase using a credit card issued to a business?

Yes -- and I have done that with the company card -- in the middle of
the night.

I don't mind using net commerce -- but I keep paranoid enough to prevent
being burned.


James Bellaire

http://tk.com/telecom/


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Your mention of requiring a fixed
address is something I have thought should be required. I would
require that any site using .com have its correct legal name, its
street address and a non-800 telephone number posted consicuously
on the site. Any site which had things for sale (either actual
tangible goods or just 'information', 'consulting', etc *OR* which
required money to enter the site *OR* required the use of cookies
to enter the site would be required to be situated as .com and
observe the above rules. A sole proprietor or partnership or DBA
thing would post their real names and addresses. A corporation 
would name the place in which it was incorporated and provide the
name, address and telephone number of the person who was registered
agent. The site could certainly use post office boxes and toll-
free telephones if was more convenient for them to do so in the
conduct of their business (or should we say the misconduct in a
few cases?) as long as any netizen could see who they were. I might
even suggest including a statement: 'our IP address is xxx.xxx.xxx.
which is serviced by (name of ISP)' 

There are precedents for this in real life. The California Commercial
Code requires a variation on this in newspaper/magazine advertising.
In Illinois and many other states, persons who engage in certain kinds
of businesses are required to idenitfy themselves. As an example in
Illinois, a person engaged in 'the sale of alcoholic beverages at
retail' (in other words, a tavern) must post on the wall somewhere in
his establishment a copy of his city and state licenses both of which
include his true name and **residence address** which he gave as
identification at the time his license was issued/renewed. If owned
by a corporation, then the same license will include the name of an
actual person -- usually an attorney acting as registered agent -- and
that person's office address and telephone number. Therefore if you 
go into a 7/Eleven Store in Chicago and buy some beer, if you look
around you will see a certificate mounted on the wall saying that
the license is held by Southland Corporation in Dallas, TX with some
person's name and street address on it. Regards its 'conspicuous'
display, they follow the letter if not the spirit of the law, and
you may have to look hard to find it or squint your eyes to read it
it it is mounted at a distance away such as behind the bar, but it
will be there. The same people who must display a license in 'plain
view' must also display evidence of their insurance coverage which
will be either a certificate from their insurance company or a notice
issued by the state saying that '(proprietor) has deposited a surety
bond in the amount of (dollars) with the Secretary of State of
Illinois to insure the protection of any patron'  of the establishment
up to (dollar amount) because of an accident, etc. And somewhere near
the front door or on the door itself, the pertinent state laws about
not serving minors, and requiring identification have to be displayed.

I do not think it is unreasonable to require that persons on the net
who transact business, demand cookies, etc lose a bit of their privacy.
They still have rights of course, they just cannot hide and make it
difficult for people to contact them; just like it is now in physical
business places. 

How would this be implemented in an orderly way? Over a one or two
year transition period, the agency or whoever is responsible as the
domain name registrar would require that any new applicant for .com
provide the required identification before getting the domain name
assigned. Existing businesses would be required to comply with the
rules beginning with their next renewal or the one following if the
next one was less than a year away. Existing users with a domain name
in .com who were NOT defined as above i.e. they do not solicit, they
do not require money or an exchange of cookies in order to visit
the site, would be invited at their convenience and at their option
to relocate using whenever possible the same identical domain name
but in .org or .net or something else. For as long as practical, their
'old' location would be forwarded to their 'new', non-.com location.
They could remain in .com if desired, but be subject to the rules
after a one or two year grace period. 

Just as .edu .us .gov and other names are restricted in use to only
the agencies or institutions which are entitled to use them, so would
the .com name be restricted to those places which were identified as
such and had obtained (in effect) a 'license', like any store in
your community would do. That's how I would do it. 

Steve Winter asked my opinion on sites such as publiceye and others
which serve a kind of 'Better Business Bureau' function on the net.
This is good, and should be encouraged. Assuming those organizations
**have teeth and can enforce the use of their logo** I think voluntary
participation in them shows the merchant's good faith in working with
the net community. This is the same reason that I applied for, and
was granted permission to place the logo of RSAC-i on the front page
of http://telecom-digest.org ... the Recreational Software Advisory
Council for the Internet encourages sites to voluntarily allow them-
selves to be rated and registered for the benefit of Frightened
Mothers and others who feel a need to control what their children
might look at. There is no charge of any kind for registering; just
like Truste and its 'Privacy Partners' program for small web sites,
it is something the public will recognize as a place where sneaky
things will not go on behind their back. I encourage participation
by web sites in programs like that.  PAT] 

------------------------------

From: steve@sellcom.com (Steve Winter)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 17:43:52 GMT
Organization: WWW.SELLCOM.COM
Reply-To: steve@sellcom.com


JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> spake thusly and wrote:

> This is a problem with e-commerce. You have no real way of knowing if
> an online store is legitimate or not. A teenage kid is propably
> capable of faking a very professional looking store. And a large
> monster shop may nt have in-house expertise to produce a nice web site
> because their expertise is focused on older mainframe technologies. 

> Which "store front" will you trust ?

That is why sites like www.thepubliceye.com have value.

> And if you send a check by paper mail, how do you know it does not get
> intercepted and your bank account info as well as signature stolen/scanned?


Good point.

Steve

http://www.sellcom.com
Cyclades Siemens EnGenius Zoom at discount prices.
SSL Secure VISA/MC/AMEX Online ordering
Listed at http://www.thepubliceye.com as SELLCOM
New Brick Wall "non-MOV" surge protection


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Steve mentions sites like The Public
Eye and again, **assuming those sites are legit and have teeth** and
in the case mentioned I have no reason to doubt they are not legit. 
They serve an important role in educating netizens about 'which store
front they can trust' on the net.  Unless of course, you would rather
just have the government take it all over and supervise everything.
I would prefer to see how far we as netizens can go on our own in
that direction first however.  PAT]

------------------------------

From: Johnnie Leung <jsleung@telecom-digest.zzn.com>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:03:01 -0700
Organization: Netcom


Linc Madison wrote in message ...

> Visa, MasterCard, and Discover all now use this system.  I don't know
> about American Express, as I no longer have an AmEx card, but I would
> be surprised if they're not doing the same sort of thing.

American Express cards have the account number embossed on the reverse
side, but not on the signature strip and without any additional
'security code'.  However, AmEx cards have a four-digit number, whose
purpose I have never been able to determine, printed close to the
right edge, immediately above the last digits of the card number.

> If you have
> a major card that doesn't have a three-digit suffix code printed on
> the back, I'd be surprised if it isn't very close to its expiry date.

Then be surprised.  My Royal Bank Visa (Canadian) that I received two
months ago doesn't even have the card number, let alone the
three-digit code, on the back.


Johnnie Leung

------------------------------

From: James H. Cloos Jr. <cloos@jhcloos.com>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: 10 Jul 1999 16:23:23 -0500
Organization: Illuminati Online


Derek Balling <dredd@megacity.org> writes:

> All this talk of "imprinting" confuses me ... when was the last
> time your card actually got imprinted?

How about a week or two ago?

If you charge, eg a taxi ride or delivered take out, they will, in my
experience, use a portable imprinter.

Many stores take the info via their fully automated, latest tech POS
terminal and then imprint the printed receipts.  I've even seen that
done where the signature was recorded electronicly.

One must presume that these vendors get a break on their merchant fees
for doing this.  Or at least have an easier time preventing chargeoffs.


James H. Cloos, Jr.  <http://www.jhcloos.com/cloos/public_key> 1024D/ED7DAEA6 
<cloos@jhcloos.com>     E9E9 F828 61A4 6EA9 0F2B  63E7 997A 9F17 ED7D AEA6


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: A lot of places even though fully on
the 'card swipe' system still will imprint the card somewhere. A
Radio Shack store near me swipes the card and does it all through the
cash register, but then they take their copy of the sales reciept
which was generated by the same cash register and put it in the
little machine which imprints your number on their copy, and they
have you sign it for their own records.   PAT] 

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #207
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Sun Jul 11 17:12:44 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA10035;
	Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:12:44 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:12:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907112112.RAA10035@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #208

TELECOM Digest     Sun, 11 Jul 99 17:12:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 208

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    US West Providing Cheap DSL With One Little Restriction (Paul Robinson)
    Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intell (Brett)
    Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intell (Ed Ellers)
    Third Voice Updates System to Bolster Security (Monty Solomon)
    Re: Third Voice Rips Holes in Web (Daniel W. Johnson)
    Re: Third Voice Rips Holes in Web (Zach Babayco)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Steve Uhrig)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Doug McIntyre)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Dale Neiburg)
    Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts (John R. Levine)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: rfc1394a@aol.com (Paul Robinson)
Date: 11 Jul 1999 04:25:36 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: US West Providing Cheap DSL With One Little Restriction


C-NET Internet Radio carried an interview with Matt Rouder, an
executive from U.S. West, the telephone company which operates in the
mid- and northwest, who explained how they are providing extremely
inexpensive 256K Digital Subscriber Line (DSL) service, at $20 a
month.  Note this is 256K symmetric capability, meaning the speed is
256K bits per second in both directions.

Note that this price is plus ISP charges which the user can either get
from USWest for an additional $18 a month or from any of about 175-200
ISPs operating in their service area, as long as you're willing to
accept it with one tiny difference between it and "standard" DSL.
This may or may not be tiny depending on your opinion, however.

You have to dial up, same as with a typical analog modem.  The service
is called "Megabit Select" and you connect into a modem pool in the
central office.  "If a port is available you get the same dedicated
bandwidth and high-performance of the typical DSL service" which is a
permanent connection.

The company is rolling this out in a limited testbed of four cities in
the U.S., including Portland, Oregon; Tacoma and Seattle, Washington.
It is expected within six months to be available in about 40 cities in
the U.S. West Service area which includes the states of AZ CO ID IA MN
MT NE NM ND OR SD UT WA & WY.  However Mr. Rouder said he hopes within
the next 3-5 months that, anyone who can get Megabit service from
U.S. West will be able to get Megabit Select service.  The modem is
identical with the standard DSL modem which is used for the usual
"always on" DSL service with the exception that it has a different
software package to allow it to support dial-up capability.

Unlike Cable Modems, service on DSL does not degrade as more users in
your neighborhood sign up because the bandwidth you are supplied is
dedicated. Mr.  Rouder pointed out that unlike the restrictions of an
@HOME service limiting upstream bandwidth and other rules, there are
no restrictions on what you can use their DSL service for, you can
have your own ISP (you don't have to use US West), and "you can put up
a web server on your machine", or "whatever you want".

U.S. West is also offering the hardware at essentially give away
prices during a promotional offer.  Literally, if you order off the
web, in the case of an internal DSL modem, which is free, and $50 for
an external model.  One-Time installation charge is $59.  This does
not include hooking up the modem, but Mr. Roder says 90% of customers
decide to install the modem themselves and 85% of those who try to do
so are successful.

Check out <A HREF="http://www.news.com/Radio/Index/0,55,,00.html">This
week</A> on CNET radio for the listing of shows, and choose the 2:00
PM Wednesday show for complete details.  The audio for this show may
be heard using the link for <A
HREF="http://www.news.com/Radio/ASX/pm07-07.asx">Windows Media</A> or
<A
HREF="http://www.news.com/Radio/Rams/1999/07/07/pm.ram">RealAudio</A>.

Note, however, that in some places you can get regular DSL for about
$50.  See a follow-up article for details on that.


Paul Robinson (Formerly Paul@TDR.COM, TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM among too many
others.)

------------------------------

From: brettf@netcom.com (Brett Frankenberger)
Subject: Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intelligence
Date: 11 Jul 1999 03:36:20 GMT
Organization: rbfnet


In article <telecom19.207.12@telecom-digest.org>, J.F. Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:

> Monty Solomon wrote:

>>> The SIGINT capabilities of the United States can be signifi-
>>> cantly compromised by the use of encryption.

> Either I am very stupid or the US government is very naive here. Can
> someone please explain to me why preventing export of a US encryption
> product would prevent foreigners from encrypting their data/messages
> with foreign-built encryption systems? 

If you believe that the restrictions on export have not ever prevented
a target of US electronic interception from encrypting their
communications using a level of sophistication that the US Government
cannot break, then you are naive.

Export restrictions won't prevent all international use of
high-security encrpytion, just as the police can't prevent all crime. 
But restrictions to reduce the usage of such encrpytion, just as the
police do prevent some crime.  "If you make it harder to obtain, fewer
people will obtain it."

> Does the United States of America *really* believe that it is the only
> one of the world capable of building encryption systems that cannot be
> defeated?  

No.  However, the United States of America *really* believes that it is
a major source of such technology, and that, by restricting the export
thereof, it will make it more difficult for organizations outside the
US to obtain encryption that the US Government cannot break, and that
such an increase in difficulty will lead to a higher percentage of
intercepted traffic being broken by the US Government.  Regardless of
the export laws, there will always be some intercepted traffic that the
US Government can break, and some intercepted traffic that they cannot. 
The export law is all about favorably adjusting the balance between
those two categories of traffic.

Here's a simple example: While it's prefectly legal for USAns (living
in the USA) to have the 128-bit version of Netscape, one consequence of
the export law is that it's harder to get the 128-bit version than the
56-bit version (you have to full out a page of information for the
128-bit version).  So a lot of people in the USA are probably using
56-bit SSL even though 128-bit is readily available to them, because
56-bit is easier to get.  It's safe to assume that this logic applies
to at least some overseas communications that the US is interested in
listening to,

> Does it really believe that other developed countries
> don't have good enough education systems to produce scientists capable
> of generating very strong algorythms?

Encryption technology is much more complex that "educating a scientist,
then having him write code".  If all these other countries can develop
rock solid algorithms, how come everyone in the USoA, where it's legal
for private entities to get their encryption from *anywhere*, get their
encryption using algorithms developed in the good ole USoA?  (For
example: a 128-bit key isn't very good if the random number generator
that picks the key isn't very random.  Code developed overseas is
unlikely to be as robust as the constantly hacked-at and checked-out
code written in the USoA.)

But, yes, most foreign governments/organizations are capable of getting
code written for themselves; however, the facts are that some of them
will elect not to avail themselves of the opportunity.

> I am sorry if this sounds nasty, but I sincerely fail to understand
> why the United States of America continues to insist on preventing
> encryption exports.  I assume that there must be some valid reason
> somewhere.

Some of what I wrote above makes it sound as if I support maintaining
the export restrictions.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  I
think the current state of technology is such that the net benefit from
the US Government being able to break some additional messages is
vastly outweighed by the net cost to business of having to deal with
silly export rules (has anyone ever carried a laptop with the 128bit
NetScape out of the counter (Except to Canada)? -- that's illegal ...)
and the net cost to businesses that can't sell their encryption
software overseas.

With the availablility of publically disclosd algorithms, and the
legality of exporting information about such algorithms, and the fact
that relatively low-end hardware (that isn't export controlled) can
execute such algorithms, the number of interception breaks that are
made possible by the export limitations are very small.  We're
restricted to targets that would (a) like to use lots-o-bits encryption
and (b) aren't smart enough, or willing to spend the time, to write
their own code or find a non-US company to sell them an executable.

I'm just pointing out that there are real issues -- security isn't
binary.  Some outsiders have good encryption now, some don't.  The same
will be true if they get rid of this silly law, but the balance will
shift -- the number of outsiders that have it will increase, the number
that don't hve it will decrease.


    -- Brett

------------------------------

From: Ed Ellers <ed_ellers@msn.com>
Subject: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intelligence
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 22:26:17 -0400


J.F. Mezei (jfmezei@videotron.ca) wrote:

> Either I am very stupid or the US government is very naive here. Can
> someone please explain to me why preventing export of a US encryption
> product would prevent foreigners from encrypting their data/messages with
> foreign-built encryption systems?

It wouldn't, but it may well be that the NSA (or whoever) wants to
*reduce* the variety of algorithms that they need to crack, even
though some will still remain.

> I am sorry if this sounds nasty, but I sincerely fail to understand
> why the United States of America continues to insist on preventing
> encryption exports. I assume that there must be some valid reason
> somewhere.

One editorial I saw a while back claimed that the real, hidden reason
may be diplomacy.  France has extremely strict controls on *domestic*
use of cryptography, so strict that some of the later versions of
MS-DOS had to be modified for use in France, and it is widely believed
that the intention is to prevent French citizens from using any scheme
that the French security services can't crack.  If the U.S. lifted its
export restrictions, strong crypto programs would then be made freely
available on FTP sites in the U.S., and the theory is that the French
government would see this as interfering in their domestic affairs and
would retaliate by being even less cooperative with the U.S. than they
already are (for example, they might ignore the embargo on oil exports
from Iraq).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:58:06 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Third Voice Updates System to Bolster Security


http://www.thirdvoice.com/about/7-9-99release.htm

Third Voice Adds New Redundancies to Further Secure System, Protect User 
Privacy 

REDWOOD CITY, Calif. - July 9, 1999 - Third Voice Inc., developers of 
the online service that allows users to post notes on any Web page, 
today announced that the company has added additional security 
precautions to its already robust system. Following information obtained 
earlier this week that claimed Web users could insert Java-type code 
into Third Voice notes, Third Voice immediately included new 
preventative measures to further detect and block harmful code from 
entering the system.

Third Voice added the new security enhancements to the server side of 
its system, which will not affect the usage of Third Voice nor require 
users to download new software.

"We will not tolerate anyone using Third Voice for malicious or deviant 
purposes," said Eng-Siong Tan, CEO and co-founder of Third Voice. "We 
have taken extra steps to further bolster the security of our system, 
and we will continue to prevent Third Voice from becoming a launching 
pad for malicious behavior, such as spreading viruses. We can assure all 
Third Voice users that we will not compromise the integrity of our 
system, and we will not violate the privacy of our users."

To date, Third Voice users have not reported any harm coming from 
security violations, nor have any users accessed Third Voice to spread a 
virus. The company will continue to focus on making the system 
impossible to attack.

Since the company's launch in May, security has been a No. 1 priority. 
The original system architecture included inherent redundancies to 
prevent harmful code from entering Third Voice for malicious use. The 
first level of security is on the client side where Third Voice has 
installed code to remove all text the system does not support, such as 
applets, objects and iframe. For text that the system does support, the 
client side conducts a second level of cleansing by removing all tags 
that could run harmful code. 

As part of the new security enhancements, Third Voice further sanitizes 
the notes by repeating security measures on the server side, where it 
now rejects all text the system does not support and removes tags that 
could contain harmful code. Additionally, the company has worked around 
the clock to clean up all existing notes to ensure the system is free of 
potentially harmful code.

As with all security issues, Third Voice will continue to keep its users 
informed. Third Voice's support team is available to answer users' 
questions about the service. Users can email Third Voice directly at 
support@thirdvoice.com, and the company will respond within 24 hours.

About Third Voice, Inc.

Third Voice is committed to enabling inline discussion forums for 
private, group or public interaction. The Third Voice service allows 
users to freely and openly express ideas at points of references 
anywhere in a Web page. Based in Redwood City, Calif., the company is 
privately held and venture funded by Mayfield Fund and Draper Fisher 
Jurvetson. For more information, visit the Third Voice home page at 
www.thirdvoice.com or call 650.591.1200. 

Copyright 1999 Third Voice, Inc. 

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Third Voice Rips Holes in Web
From: panoptes@iquest.net (Daniel W. Johnson)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:35:10 -0500


TELECOM Digest Editor noted in response to Thomas A. Horsley
<Tom.Horsley@worldnet.att.net>:

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: No, no ... the morons who install it
> will not have the problem, the web sites where they use it will have
> the problem. At least that's how I read it.  Was I wrong?   PAT]

Page 1:

"Bowers said he could use the security glitch, for example, to cause
faked versions of a Web page to appear to Third Voice users."

"A Third Voice user interacting with a fake page ...."

Page 2:

"To test their feat, they claim to have placed scripts inside sticky
notes that, when viewed by other Third Voice users, put login and
password information at risk."

"To be vulnerable, a Third Voice user has only to ...."

I can find no reference in the article to using Third Voice to mess with
web sites themselves.


Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

------------------------------

From: Zach Babayco <zbabayco@oz-online.net>
Subject: Re: Third Voice Rips Holes in Web
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:03:47 -0500
Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com


Let me delurk here for a sec:

No matter what security holes or whatever they find in this program,
the fact remains that *the only people who this affects are those who
installed the program on their system!!!!*

Likewise, if you don't have it installed, like the vast majority of
Net users, *you won't see the comments!!!!* The actual sites aren't
changed in the slightest - the changes are stored on Third Voice's
servers, and all the program does is route you to the server instead
of the actual site.

I honestly don't see where people are getting the idea that this
program somehow goes out and changes sites - if you take the time to
learn a little bit about the product, you'll see that's not the case.

 
                       Zach Babayco
                zbabayco@oz-online.net

"Applying computer technology is simply finding
the right wrench to pound in the correct screw."

------------------------------

From: Steve Uhrig <suhrig@bright.net>
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 23:00:11 -0400
Organization: bright.net Ohio


Rickman wrote:

>>         Probably for good reason. I keep all of our switch room phones
>> blocked also. If you call a customer with the CID on, they think they
>> now have a personal phone number to report their problems to. I get
>> enough phone calls each day without having customers calling in
>> wanting to report their problems to me instead of the 800 reporting
>> number.

> But how do you call people if 60% or 80% (I forget which) of the people
> in CA have you blocked?

	If I have to call a line with ACR I can use a test phone that
is outgoing calls only, or I can turn off their blocking to call them
and then turn it back on after the call.
 
> Or are you in another state?

	I am in Ohio. The number of lines with ACR is probably lower
here than in California, but there are still a lot of them.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
From: merlyn@visi.com (Doug McIntyre)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 06:51:38 GMT


Rickman <spamgoeshere4@yahoo.com> writes:

> Steve Uhrig wrote:
>> Steven Lichter wrote:

>>> Here is a good one. Pacific Bell switchroom telephones are blocked by
>>> default. I found that out when I had to call home while working in
>>> one, my phone blocks anything without CID.

>>         Probably for good reason. I keep all of our switch room phones
>> blocked also. If you call a customer with the CID on, they think they
>> now have a personal phone number to report their problems to. I get
>> enough phone calls each day without having customers calling in
>> wanting to report their problems to me instead of the 800 reporting
>> number.

> But how do you call people if 60% or 80% (I forget which) of the people
> in CA have you blocked? 

> Or are you in another state?

I can't believe the PBX system in use wouldn't let you set outgoing
caller number on your outgoing calls. Mine does, (an Inter-tel
Axxess), where we have support stations report themselves to be the
general support DID, while my phone reports itself on outgoing calls
as my own DID. We don't want customers grabbing support people's DID's
and calling them directly, they just need to call into the general
support ACD group.

I know USWest also does the same thing, their Interprise division has
one of two DIDs that all their calls appear as no matter where the
actual techs are in the country (most are based out of Minneapolis
anyway).

This is with PRI's feeding our trunks. 


Doug McIntyre				merlyn@visi.com

  Network Engineer/Tech Support/Jack of All Trades of Vector Internet
Due to circumstances beyond your control, you are master of your fate
and captain of your soul.

------------------------------

From: Dale Neiburg <DNeiburg@npr.org>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce  
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 14:26:15 -0400


In TELECOM Digest V19 #206, Linc Madison wrote:


> Visa, MasterCard, and Discover all now use this system.  I don't know
> about American Express, as I no longer have an AmEx card, but I would
> be surprised if they're not doing the same sort of thing.  If you have
> a major card that doesn't have a three-digit suffix code printed on
> the back, I'd be surprised if it isn't very close to its expiry date.

My American Express card (renewed two months ago) doesn't have the
three-digit suffix on the back.  Also (possibly since it's not issued
by a bank as such), the bank code on front doesn't match the first
four digits of the account number.


	Dale Neiburg  **  NPR Satellite Operations  **  202-414-2640

	    I'm the guy...who put the "fun" in "dysfunctional"!


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I don't know if you knew it or not, but
Amex got hit with an internal fraud a few years ago. One of the
employees in their credit card processing center -- I think it is in
Phoenix -- an insider with a lot of sophistication regards credit card
processing/billing operations put together a scheme which allowed
accounts which were unused for several years; i.e. dormant because
the customer no longer wanted to use Amex, to get 're-issued' with
new cards sent to the post office box of a confederate. Many of the
're-issued' accounts were so old Amex had no up-to-date credit inform-
ation on file, and in most cases not even a microfilm copy of the
original credit application; that is how old some of them were. The
idea was, when the card was abused, the account aged out and went to
collection, he did not want the collectors to have anywhere to go
with it. If the collector tried to order microfilm of the original
credit application so he could review it and find some information 
about the debtor, he would get nothing. If the collector ordered
microfilm of the charge tickets, he would get that, but this guy and
his confederate carefully avoided making any charges where paperwork
could be produced showing a delivery-address or a license plate
number from a car, etc. 

Since many gasoline service stations used to write down the license
number of the car when a credit card was presented for a purchase,
that posed a problem, you see, because among other tools at the
collector's disposal are driver's records for all fifty states. The
ones for Illinois used to be delivered from the Secretary of State's
office on about ten reels of microfilm a couple times per year; in
more recent times it is all computerized. The con-artist figured he
was in the clear since the post office box the cards went out to
was in the confederate's name and the confederate had his signature
on the cards and the charge purchases (never, never do to have your
own handwriting on those things would it?). The con-artist figured
he was in the clear since it was basically a one-man operation with
the confederate getting the cards, abusing them and then ditching
them with the understanding that if he wanted cards to keep on
arriving at that post office box addressed to customers who 'decided
to reactivate their Amex account' that appropriate kick-backs in
the form of cash had better keep making their way back to him in
clandestine meetings now and then. By spacing out the 're-issued'
accounts through the alphabet in such a way that they occurred
randomly in all billing cycles (I think there were 22 billing cycles
per month), no one collector would get too many in his 'cycle'
to catch any attention, as in 'why are all these go-nowhere with
skip tracing accounts hitting me this month' ... but the PO Box
caught someone's eye finally, and one Postal Form 1391 sent to the
Lock-Box Supervisor at that post office later, they had the name
and street address of the confederate.

As they gathered up what details they had; ie all re-issued accounts
with new plastic sent out to the same PO box, all of them with a
string of zeros in the field on the computer screen where the 
microfilm index number would otherwise appear (so old, they predated
the current indexing system, the computer had nothing to put there
in filling in the details), all issued using a customer service
function on the computer for re-activating a customer's account and
various terminals used around the complex of offices, etc.

So they sat down with the confederate and asked him point blank,
'which one of our people taught you how to do this?'  He was going
to say nothing; mums-the-word and all that until they pointed out
that after all, his handwriting appeared on all the charge tickets
in the signature box; that they could demonstrate all the cards
had come to a box he controlled; that the amount of bogus charges
at that point had turned it into a felony matter instead of just
a misdemeanor; that things like postal fraud were now involved,
and oh, by the way, we 'just happened to notice' you have a problem,
or two problems actually, one with cocaine and the other with some
as of yet unfinished federal probation on another matter. So why
not act in your own best interests and just tell us which one of
our people got you in on this? He cooperated as they knew he would
when faced with all the evidence they had at that point. It turned
out the in-house person involved had a similar problem with coke,
and I don't mean the kind of coke that comes from the fountain at
the corner convenience store. 

The loss to Amex was not that bad considering the corporation's
overall wealth. My contact said they were hit for around two hundred
thousand dollars on it. Nothing could be recovered of course, there
rarely is anything recoverable when those schemes are terminated.
Amex's main concern and worry was the papers finding out about it
with a resulting headline saying 'drug addict employed in sensitive
position at credit card office' and the resulting bad public relations
or loss of customer confidence. 

Amoco credit card and one of the very large credit grantors operating
as a VISA affiliate have had similar 'internal situations' with back-
office employees who 'had personal problems'. The schemes would vary,
but the results always the same: money is gone, no one seems to know
where, intensive audit discovers leak in the pipeline somewhere caused
by employee who knows too much; too much 'meta knowledge' of the
overall operation let's say. Better that you know only about the work
on your own desk; not the work that happens in the room across the hall.

And the response was always the same: get the offender out of here
now; neutralize him if possible with what information we have about
him; do not get authorities involved if at all possible, and under
*no circumstances* let the media find out. What do you want, this
time next week all those people on Usenet who squall and scream about
their privacy being violated to find out that a cocaine addict had
full access to our customer database records and credit bureau reports?
It even becomes a verboten or forbidden topic of discussion in the
office once it has been dealt with.   PAT]

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1999 22:13:11 -0400
From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine)
Subject: Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA


>      Nothing in this chapter shall restrict any person from 
>      independently gathering information or using information 
>      obtained by means other than extracting it from a 
>      collection of information gathered . . . by another 
>      person ...

> Could someone please explain to me how HR354 makes criminals out of
> Amazon and Yahoo?

In Amazon's case, they and every other on-line bookstore create their
catalog using data from Books in Print and other collections of books
and publishers,

In Yahoo's case, web spidering is enough like trolling through someone
else's database to sound alarms.

The last time I checked, there was no minimum threshold.  Using one
fact from someone else's database would set you afoul of this
ill-considered and probably unconstitutional bill.  (That's
deliberate, one of the major reasons for this bill is to create a new
flavor of protection for stock price quotes.)


John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869
johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, 
Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #208
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Sun Jul 11 18:33:04 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA13589;
	Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:33:04 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:33:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907112233.SAA13589@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #209

TELECOM Digest     Sun, 11 Jul 99 18:33:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 209

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (James Bellaire)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (J.F. Mezei)
    Re: Caller ID & Star-69 (Was: Weird Wrong Number Calls) (Stanley Cline)
    Re: You Believe *67 Works? (Stanley Cline)
    *67 and *71 (Casey Mak)
    Re: Cell Phone Companies Go by Own Rules (Craig Macbride)
    Re: Cellular 911 Position Location Issues (Alan Boritz)
    Re: No More Late Fees (Matt Ackeret)
    Re: Please Contact FCC re: SBC/Ameritech Merger (Steven J. Sobol)
    Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts (Thor Lancelot Simon)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:07:01 -0500
From: James Bellaire <bellaire@tk.com>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce


At 09:38 PM 7/10/99 -0400, Pat wrote:

> I would require that any site using .com have its correct legal
> name, its street address and a non-800 telephone number posted
> consicuously on the site.

Last night my wife visited http://howtodraw.com -- don't go there if
you are easily offended.  http://www.christophercolumbus.com goes to
the *SAME* page and was found by one of my co-workers helping an
eight-year-old with a history report.  Both sites are "Copyright
1997-99 PornDirectory.Com. All Rights Reserved."

I wouldn't mind seeing a law that required .COMs to be honestly named.
(As well as have sales sites post a permanent address on the ordering
pages BEFORE you give your information.)

[snip reorg of .COM suggestion details]

Hold the phone Pat - Moving non-selling business out of COM is too
much!  There are too many business and personal .COMs that are legit
names for people DBA whatever is in front of the .COM .  Would you
tell PEPSI.COM to get out of .COM unless they served cookies or sold
over the net?  It won't happen.  You have a better chance of getting
all the non-brand name WATS users out of 1-800 and allowing only names
that are spelt in that range.

Returning to the original definitions would be good:

 .ORG - owned by organizations/not for profit
 .NET - owned by network operators
 .COM - owned by commercial entities/for profit/misc

These lines have been blured enough that people are getting a .NET
or .ORG who originally would not have qualified.  And the names are
competing with the .COM equivilents.

(Note that telecom-digest.org can stay.)

James H. Cloos Jr. <cloos@jhcloos.com> also wrote:

> Many stores take the info via their fully automated, latest tech POS
> terminal and then imprint the printed receipts.  I've even seen that
> done where the signature was recorded electronicly.

We did this when we needed to key in the number manually to 'prove'
we had the card at the time of sale.  When the swiper worked there
was enough other data in the swipe to prove posession.

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: A lot of places even though fully on
> the 'card swipe' system still will imprint the card somewhere. A
> Radio Shack store near me swipes the card and does it all through the
> cash register, but then they take their copy of the sales reciept
> which was generated by the same cash register and put it in the
> little machine which imprints your number on their copy, and they
> have you sign it for their own records.   PAT] 

IIRC their swiper is part of the keyboard (connects through the
keyboard port of the machine) so a salesmaker could type the
information and the machine would not know if it was swipe or type.

Meijer stores in the midwest have the customer sign an electronic
pad, much like the ones you sign when accepting a UPS package.  At
first they just stored the signature, but now the register prints
a second reciept with the signature for store use.


James Bellaire


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I agree that site names should be
required to correctly reflect the contents and that 'search engine
spam' (or manipulating what the engine sees, etc) for the purpose
of manipulating the site's placement in the listings is a totally
unacceptable practice. I also believe commercial sites should be
limited to one or two sites under the same ownership when the 
sites essentially dealt with the same subject. I would charge them
more money for registering second or subsequent domain names just
for the sake of having still one more frivilous name out there.

I would not, as you suggest I claimed, require anyone to move from
one place to another. I would just advise everyone that as of some
date in the future, allowing time for everyone as needed, that
certain rules would begin to be enforced on sites in .com, and
that those same rules were in effect now regarding new applicants
for .com names. If you wish to stay in .com you are welcome to do
so, and after time has been allowed for you to comply with the
new rules, you must follow them also. Since .com has always been
defined as a place for COMmercial sites, just as EDUcational sites
and non-profit ORGanizations have places assigned to them, perhaps
some present occupants of .com would feel more comfortable elsewhere
if the rules I suggest were implemented. I would even suggest the
possibility of a new territory called PRIvate, to be used by just
individual people who wish to have a web presence. Those users would
need say nothing about themselves if they did not wish to do so;
no way to contact them, nothing else other than what the use of
reverse-lookups, fingers, etc could obtain anyway. They would be
saying they are private individuals doing their own thing. 

You said in your letter that 'telecom-digest.org can stay', and I
guess my question to you is, where should it be? I define my presence
here as a not-for-profit educational activity to serve the net. I
certainly am not commercial and have no interest in being commercial.
Does the web site *even appear* to you as though it is a commercial
endeavor? I certainly am not EDUcational in the traditional use of
that domain, and although I happen to function from a site which is
normally addressed as .edu my preference is that people visit the
site using my alias 'telecom-digest.org' so that there is no confusion
that I am somehow employed by or an 'official part of' MIT. I am
only a user with a guest account at MIT. Yes, you can connect with
the site by doing http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives (or
substitute 'hyperarchive' or 'mirror' for 'massis' if you wish) but I
do not think that is appropriate. Although I have never asked about
it, I doubt that MIT would ever allow a .com to be aliased to any
of their resources, and I would not want to be a .com anyway. No
offense intended to those of you who do with to be there or who by
the nature of your sites rightfully should be there. Where would
you have me be, James?    PAT]

------------------------------

From: J.F. Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 02:07:28 -0400


James H. Cloos Jr. wrote:

> Many stores take the info via their fully automated, latest tech POS
> terminal and then imprint the printed receipts.  I've even seen that
> done where the signature was recorded electronicly.

A lot of the credit card infrastructure and procedures were geared
towards preventing use of stolen credit cards. POS terminals enable
banks to set $0 floor limits which means that all transactions get
authorised (hence, as soon as card is reported stolen, no POS
transactions are possible).

What e-commerce brings is fraud at the merchant level. Banks and
credit card companies (visa, Mastercard etc) have certain procedures
but e-commerce brings new modus-operandi.

The one aspect that is hard to control is the phoney store-front where
they capture your credit card number and info and sell them to card
counterfeit outfits and don't deliver any goods.  (or perhaps grant
you access to their XXX site). Banks don't have relationships with
them and they illegally use the visa/mastercard symbols on their
sites. So they are hard to spot, especially if they "look" legit and
provide you with access to their web site so the customer does not
suspect anything.

However, in the majority of cases, I doubt that the problem occurs
during transmission, it occurs at the merchant.


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Oh, I would not lay it all at the
feet of the merchants. To be sure, there are some real fraudulent
sites on the net, but users know how to cheat also.   PAT]

------------------------------

From: sc1@roamer1.org (Stanley Cline)
Subject: Re: Caller ID & Star-69 (Was: Weird Wrong Number Calls)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 02:37:50 GMT
Organization: by area code and prefix (NPA-NXX)
Reply-To: sc1@roamer1.org


On Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:58:50 -0400, Eric@AreaCode-Info.com (Eric
Morson) wrote:

> Star-69 will work if the call came from a number serviced by your local
> provider. A cellular number, T1, trunk line, etc, will not work even if
> the number is local.

Here in BellSouth territory, *69 will READ BACK the number of cell
phone, T1-trunk, etc. calls, but will not complete the call back to
it.  Same goes for any interLATA call.  (*69 and other "TouchStar"
features do work on intraLATA calls from ALLTEL, TDS, and other
independent local telco territory.)

Similar applies to *66, *60, *57, etc. -- if one attempts to trace or
repeat-dial a cell phone, T1-trunk, interLATA, etc. number, or add one
to a call block or priority ringing list, one gets a recording stating
something like "this service cannot be used to call this number, trace
this number, or enter this number on your list."


Stanley Cline -- sc1 at roamer1 dot org -- http://www.roamer1.org/

------------------------------

From: sc1@roamer1.org (Stanley Cline)
Subject: Re: You Believe *67 Works?
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 02:37:33 GMT
Organization: by area code and prefix (NPA-NXX)
Reply-To: sc1@roamer1.org


On 9 Jul 1999 15:15:12 -0400, tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon)
wrote:

> That's just fine -- *if* the call is made to an 888 number, and completed
> as a freephone call.

Many cellular and PCS carriers now list the number of incoming calls
on bills; some (primarily GSM carriers for some odd reason) list the
number of incoming calls where the caller dialed *67, others don't.
The numbers are received using caller ID, *not* ANI.

I see showing incoming numbers on cell phone bills no different than
showing numbers on toll-free bills since, after all, the caller is
paying for the airtime -- unless CPP is in place, of course.


Stanley Cline -- sc1 at roamer1 dot org -- http://www.roamer1.org/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:28:34 EST
From: Casey.Mak@wirechf.xg.com (Casey Mak)
Subject: *67 and *71
Organization: Chapter 91 - Telephone Pioneers of America


TELECOM Digest Editor noted:

> You knew of course, I assume, that if you have three-way calling, you
> can flash at any time during the call and insert *70 for the remainder
> of the session to busy out further call-waiting.

> There are some phone switches however which (read carefully!) only
> recognize the first special instruction given. You might for example
> wish to be both anonymous and undisturbed in your call, so you would
> do *67*70xxx-yyyy.  That should work fine, and you do not have to wait
> for the 'three beep tones' when one is finished before continuing with
> the next. My modem for example just blasts out *70xxx-yyyy to my local
> ISP without any pause in dialing."

If you are using Three-Way Calling, and already have two other people
on the line, Call Waiting can no longer be used.  All other callers
during the time you are on the Three-Way Call will receive a busy
signal (unless you have an answering service with forward busy).

Also, your ISP can show you how to modify the dialing preferences on
your computer software to add a pause after each * command.  The pause
is needed to allow the * command to be completed.  When you dial *67,
you need to wait for the second dial tone to come before dialing other
numbers.  When you dial *70 to cut off Call Waiting, another pause is
required before you can dial a number on the dial tone.  If you type
in two commas into your computer, it should work.  eg *67,,*70,,TN of
ISP server.


casey

[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Do you think my ISP could teach me how
to do something like that? Maybe I will ask him tomorrow. Actually, 
no Casey, you do not have to pause; you can plow straight through it
in my experience. And regards talking to two parties and having other
callers get a busy, it depends on how the call is organized. If I
am talking to someone and get a call waiting and have two callers on
my line as a result, then subsequent call-waits will get a busy
signal. If I originate a three way call and have two parties on the
line I am talking to at the same time in a conference, then if a
call-wait comes I get the usual signal, can flash and take that new
call, leaving the two parties in the confererence *I originated* both
on hold.  PAT]

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Cell Phone Companies Go by Own Rules
From: craig@glasswings.com.au (Craig Macbride)
Organization: Nyx Public Access Internet
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 11:23:31 GMT


nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle) writes:

>    By international agreement, toll billing begins at the point the
> connection goes bidirectional.  But apparently this doesn't apply to
> cellular.

Initially, at least, the non-GSM carriers in the USA were basically
selling a system that was lucky if it worked in more than 5 states,
let alone overseas, so international agreements were probably not high
on their priority list, compared to the idea of how to extract the
maximum amount of money from consumers by cheating them.

Also, it shows a disadvantage of very large amounts of competition.
When a monopoly is in place, it rips you off by simply charging
outrageously inflated amounts for its services. When a small number of
competitors exist, their offerings are often well enough known that
the consumer has some chance of understanding the differences. When a
multitude of service providers exist, some are working on small
margins. Some are cutting each other's throats. The only easy way to
make money is to pretend you're giving a good deal, when in fact
you're charging more than the consumer realises. At the same time, in
that environment, the consumer has little chance of reading and
accurately comparing the plethora of different companies and
products. Companies will therefore make things as complex as possible
so as to dupe consumers more easily.

Of course, it helps for the consumer if the system starts from well-
understood basis. Here in Australia, all calls (except toll-free ones) 
are paid for by the initiator of the call. All calls are charged from
the time they are answered. Local calls have a fixed rate while all
other calls (interstate, international or mobile) are charged per second,
unless you choose special options to do otherwise.

If a carrier of any sort were to suddenly charge for unanswered calls or
charge the receiver of calls, etc, it would be noticed as not following the
normal pattern and there would be an outcry.


	Craig Macbride <craig@glasswings.com.au>
  ---------------------http://amarok.glasswings.com.au/~craig---------------
	"It's a sense of humour like mine, Carla, that makes me proud
		to be ashamed of myself." - Captain Kremmen

------------------------------

From: aboritz@cybernex.net (Alan Boritz)
Subject: Re: Cellular 911 Position Location Issues
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 13:09:09 -0400


In article <telecom19.197.13@telecom-digest.org>, Robert A. Rosenberg
<hal9001@panix.com> wrote:

> At Mon, 5 Jul 99 10:31 PDT, lauren@vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein)
> wrote about Cellular 911 Position Location Issues:

>> But many criminal or civil
>> investigations would want access to logs of historical data regarding
>> particular cell phone movements, down to whatever level of granularity
>> (e.g., current location once per minute) that the networks could
>> provide.  This introduces a range of complexities in terms of both the
>> operational and policy issues surrounding such usage.  Concerns over
>> this sort of retroactive inspection of cellular location data has
>> already caused some considerable controversies in Europe.

> There is another similar issue brewing. The technology that is being
> used to run "EZ PASS" (an automated highway fare collection system)
> can also be used to issue speeding tickets if designed for this
> purpose. At the current time if you use an EZ PASS lane and do not
> have a valid Transponder, a picture of you and the car is taken and a
> "fare betting" ticket is issued. If two toll booths are 11 miles apart
> and the speed limit between them is 55 MPH, showing up at the second
> toll booth earlier than 12 minutes after going though the first means
> you were speeding and a picture can be taken as evidence (or just use
> the time stamped record that is kept for account purposes). Already
> there are cases of the monthly statement being used in court cases
> proving that people were places that they claimed not to have been
> (just as you suggested in one of your comments about after the event
> tracking of people).

That was a hot issue in New York soon after the EZ PASS program was
installed and functional in New York City.  While the State of New
York's PR line was pitching confidentiality of all collected data, the
{NY Daily News} was publishing details of civil court cases and other
non-criminal proceedings where individuals had little difficulty
gaining access to this "confidential" data.

The "lemmings mentality," for want of a better term, that has
accompanied public support for EZ PASS is fascinating.  Perhaps it's
great that you can skip a few minutes waiting on line for a purposely
slow cash lane, but if your vehicle is registered out of state
(compared to where the EZ PASS is operating), you can expect to be a
target of a tax audit and/or investigation, whether you live there or
not.  The State of New York has been doing this for years with
individuals in certain occupations (it was the major reason why author
Andrew Tobias moved away from New York, as he wrote in a {NY Times}
article a while back).  

New York's Dept. of Taxation came after a company I used to work for a
few years ago for NYS corporate income tax because of fuel tax records
that showed trucks passing through New York (from New Jersey) to jobs
in other states.  There are many documented cases where state taxation
agencies have gone after individuals for what they felt was a taxable
activity (like a writer conceiving of an idea for a book in their
state, therefore subjecting the writer to state income tax even though
he wrote the book elsewhere) with the flimsiest of what passes for
evidence.  You can imagine the income they may anticipate from
harassing businesses in other states after collecting bridge and
tunnel crossing data for otherwise undocumented non-CDL vehicles (for
companies who may have their entire fleet on EZ PASS).

------------------------------

From: mattack@area.com (Matt Ackeret)
Subject: Re: No More Late Fees
Date: 10 Jul 1999 21:38:35 -0700
Organization: Area Systems in Mountain View, CA - http://www.area.com


In article <telecom19.206.3@telecom-digest.org>, Monty Solomon
<monty@roscom.com> wrote:

> http://www.thestandard.com/articles/display/0,1449,5446,00.html

> The name says it all: PayMyBills.com. Launching today, it's the 
> latest startup to come out of Idealab's Internet incubator in 
> Pasadena, Calif. While many electronic-bill-presentment firms have 
> tapped the biller and bank space with payment solutions, 
> PayMyBills.com hopes to appeal to the masses.

> Beginning July 19, consumers can have all of their regular bills paid 
> automatically for $9.95 per month (The fee covers up to 15 bills; 
> each one after that costs another 50 cents). Users have their billers 
> send tabs to PayMyBills' processing center. The company opens the 
> bills, scans them into an online account and sends an e-mail 
> notification. The user then logs onto the account, views the bills, 
> instructs PayMyBills on how and when to pay them, and the service 
> automatically debits the consumer's bank account. The service works 
> independent of financial institutions or billers.

If I still have to log onto the account and tell them to pay it, what
advantage does this have?

BillPay on my Wells Fargo account is _free_. (Yeah, sure, there is
proably a minimum account requirement for it to be "free".. It used to
have an explicit cost, and I didn't use it.  Now it doesn't have an
explicit cost, so I use it.) Also, I can use it via Lynx. Presumably
most other banks have online bill paying also.

Now, what I want is _true_ all electronic billing, from the various
companies or utilities I deal with, to me.  There would have to be
backup paper billing if the email bounces, or simply provide them with
a credit card or bank account number for default billing.

The one situation that comes close to this is the BMG CD Club.
There's now an entirely electronic version.  No mailings of junk mail
you have to return and/or throw away. (You've been able to respond to
the mailings online for a few years now.)  So you just get emailed
with the default selection, and can respond on the web site.  It's
great.

Now if the phone company, Visa, and other companies would go to a
fully electronic version, we wouldn't get as much junk mail (I'm
counting bills).

The moderator will apparently hate this as he seems to be against
e-commerce.

Though this is not directly related, I got a phone call from Schwab
today.  It was regarding an order I had made a few minutes before (via
the web).  I had a sell stop limit order placed a few days ago, and
today I put a sell limit order higher than the current price of the
stock (Schwab, ironically).  Apparently, even on the weekends, people
are alerted to conflicting trades and call people up.  (They're not
actually conflicting, because I purposely meant to sell if it goes too
low, but also sell if it goes much higher. I know there is a chance
of both going through and I'd be in a short sell position.  I did it
on purpose however.)  I'm not sure how I feel about this.  It seems
like they were "looking out for me", but it was an unnecessary phone
call because I was doing exactly what I wanted to do.

> "We're freeing the consumer of the entire process," says John 

Except you have to log onto the site.

> Tedesco, PayMyBills' president and CEO. "By paying 100 percent of the 
> bills at one site, we're removing anxiety, stress and aggravation 

I already pay 100% of my bills at one site, and don't pay an added
charge for it.


mattack@area.com

------------------------------

From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steven J Sobol)
Subject: Re: Please Contact FCC re: SBC/Ameritech Merger
Date: 11 Jul 1999 05:41:46 GMT
Organization: North Shore Technologies Corp. 888.480.4NET


On 09 Jul 1999 21:32:06 GMT, stevenl11@aol.comstuffit allegedly said:

> It would an act of God to stop that merger now.

> Now on the other hand stopping the GTE HellAtlantic would have a chance.

Both mergers have their good points ... GTE Wireless is my cellular
carrier, and I've always been happy with their service. Bell Atlantic
Mobile has an excellent reputation for customer service also. So I
don't mind that merger going through. Of course, I don't receive
landline services from either company ... otherwise my viewpoint might
be different. ;)

The good thing about Ameritech/SBC is ...

*ponder*

Hm, I'll have to get back to you. I can't think of anything good about
the Ameritech/SBC merger right now. In fact, Ameritech may not have a
clue terribly often, but their customer service is still far better
than some of the other Baby Bells. I suspect that will not be the case
after the merger.

Not that I'm trying to imply that the FCC has any cojones. I think no
matter what we say, they'll allow the merger to happen. If they pass
rules that allow broadcast companies to hold a dozen stations in one
market ... not to mention hundreds of stations across the country ... I
do not see much hope for those of us who would like to see this merger
die.


North Shore Technologies: We don't just build websites. We build relationships.
(But not with spammers. Spammers get billed a minimum of $1000 for cleanup!)
888.480.4NET [active now, forwards to my pager] - 216.619.2NET [as of 7/1/99]
Proud host of the Forum for Responsible and Ethical E-mail -  www.spamfree.org

------------------------------

From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon)
Subject: Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts
Date: 11 Jul 1999 15:13:54 -0400
Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp.
Reply-To: tls@rek.tjls.com


In article <telecom19.207.1@telecom-digest.org>, Fred Goodwin
<goodwin@tri.sbc.com> wrote:

> monty@roscom.com (Monty Solomon) wrote in <telecom19.203.7@telecom
> -digest.org>: 

>> There are two competing bills that would protect data compilers by
>> prohibiting the duplication of their databases. Critics fear the more
>> restrictive of the two, Collections of Information Antipiracy Act
>> (HR354), would make criminals of companies that collect and aggregate
>> data -- companies like Yahoo and Amazon.com.

>> http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/20550.html

> The proposed law says you can collect facts independently of
> extracting them from a database:

>      Nothing in this chapter shall restrict any person from 
>      independently gathering information or using information 
>      obtained by means other than extracting it from a 
>      collection of information gathered . . . by another 
>      person ...

> Could someone please explain to me how HR354 makes criminals out of
> Amazon and Yahoo?

If they get any of the information from anyone else's site -- any of
it -- as I read the bill they infringe.  That's a crock.  That means
that for some kinds of information, there's basically no way to get it
without infringing.

Furthermore, it bears notice that these bills are being heavily pushed
by the West Publishing wanna-be-monopoly as a cure to their recent
series of court defeats -- they want to "own" all legal opinions by
collecting them and adding their own page numbers, so you can't cite
them correctly without paying for a set of WestLaw books or their
online service (or Lexis/Nexis, who license the data from them).  The
courts said there's no copyright in page numbers, so now they're
pushing these bills trying to create one.

This is a major impediment to equal access to the legal system.  West
books and Lexis/Nexis are *expensive*.  Most courts require West
numbering in citations.  My uncle's a lawyer with Legal Services and
they spend a substantial fraction of their budget every year on
WestLaw and Lexis (which they can barely afford to use, generally only
in an emergency) instead of providing actual legal services to the
poor.


Thor Lancelot Simon	                              tls@rek.tjls.com
	"And where do all these highways go, now that we are free?"

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #209
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Sun Jul 11 20:00:10 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA00694;
	Sun, 11 Jul 1999 20:00:10 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 20:00:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907120000.UAA00694@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #210

TELECOM Digest     Sun, 11 Jul 99 20:00:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 210

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: Hazards of the Young and Mobile - Handheld Powers (Arthur Ross)
    Proving Negatives/Cell Phones & Gas Stations (Arthur Ross)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Julian Thomas)
    Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intell (R. Seberry)
    Net Commerce Statistics? Credit Card Fraud Statistics? (Harvey Taylor)
    NPA List - Help Please (jca@majesticsoftware.com)
    Lower-Priced Always on DSL (Paul Robinson)
    FCC Investigating Minimum Monthly Fees For Long Distance (Danny Burstein)
    FCC to Probe Fees (Joey Lindstrom)
    Re: Please Contact FCC re: Ameritech/SBC Merger (Macy Hallock)
    Re: *67 and *71 (Joel B. Levin)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 07:17:18 -0700
From: Arthur Ross <a.ross@ieee.org>
Subject: Re: Hazards of the Young and Mobile - Handheld Powers


lwinson@bbs.cpcn.com (L. Winson) wrote:

> Aren't hand-held cell phones a much lower power rating than the older
> style "bag" phones to avoid the risk of electronic field emissions?

No. They are lower power so they can be hand-held, i.e. so the battery can
be smaller for the same talk time. Health benefits, if any, are incidental.

A full-up AMPS mobile is about three watts. The portables are about ten
dB less, roughly 1/4 Watt, at full power. The CDMA handsets, however,
use closed loop transmit power control, the effect of which is to keep
the actual power lower most of the time. The highest power is used
only at the fringes of cell coverage. Measurements have shown that in
typical use the power averages a few tens of mW. It is actually
possible to be transmitting less power than you are receiving, if you
are very close to the cell.  GSM, by the way, can be as much as eight
watts peak, but it is pulsed. So is D-AMPS (North American TDMA).

So, if you believe that there are health risks from the radiation, you
should either a) use a NON-wireless, i.e. wired, phone, or b) use the
CDMA variety which has the very low average power.

AMPS has power control too, but it more limited, coarse, and is often
not really used by the operators, as it is not essential for the
proper function of the system like it is in the CDMA systems.

The lower max power has negative consequences for the maximum range of
the phone, but the systems are engineered, or supposed to be, for the
portables. If you believe the folklore re empirical propagation laws
for cellular (an inverse fourth power fall-off of flux density with
distance), then the reduction in range is, in dB units, about 10 dB/4
= 2.5 dB, or a little less than a factor of two.

myself@best.com added to the conversation:

> What else is new?

> "We did some research and we found that we need more money."

This is yet another of those "prove a negative" risk-to-the-public
kinds of questions. Is electromagnetic radiation hazardous to your
health? Obviously yes ... at SOME power level. It will cook you, as in
microwave ovens (which, by the way, are not greatly different in
frequency from the PCS wireless phones - 2450 MHz versus 1900 MHz,
roughly).  But are there risks other than thermal - more subtle
effects? How do those risks scale with exposure? What level of risk is
acceptable? The risk is obviously low for the powers involved in the
portable phones, so the answers can be obtained only in a statistical
sense. For a high degree of statistical certainty, large sample sizes
are require. If there are bad effects that result from lifetimes of
exposure, then lifetimes of experiment and data gathering may be
required.

While I am not familiar with this research in detail, it appears from
the referenced magazine article, that SOME small effect was found, at
SOME level of statistical significance. The degree of statistical
certainty is calculable with some precision, based on sample sizes and
the observed outcomes. The question is what INTERPRETATION you put on
such results.

The mass media love to sensationalize this kind of story, based on the
naive presumption that a binary decision HAZARDOUS or NOT HAZARDOUS is
possible, and that the study has concluded the former, thus exposing
some heretofore concealed threat to the public health, heinous plots
to foist dangerous products on an unsuspecting public by evil
corporate America, etc, etc.

Life, alas, is not that simple.

I do think, by the way, that it was extraordinarily responsible of the
industry to seize the initiative here and launch a real scientific effort,
not a whitewash PR campaign. As I recall, the original motivation for the
concern was a tort several years ago in which the family of a deceased
cellular phone user claimed that her phone had given her cancer.


   -- Best
   -- Arthur
   -- Dr. Arthur Ross
      2325 East Orangewood Avenue
      Phoenix, AZ 85020-4730
      Phone: 602-371-9708
      Fax  : 602-336-7074

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:03:24 -0700
From: Arthur Ross <a.ross@ieee.org>
Subject: Proving Negatives/Cell Phones & Gas Stations


July 9, 1999

[The Wall Street Journal Interactive Edition]

Phones Exploding at Gas Stations:
Safety Hazard or Urban Legend?
By KATHY CHEN
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

WASHINGTON -- First it was brain tumors. Then headaches and memory
loss. Now cellular phones are being blamed for explosions at gas
stations.

It all started with news reports out of Asia that a man had caught
fire at a gas station in Indonesia while talking on his mobile phone
and filling his tank at the same time. According to the reports --
zipped along the Internet -- the phone battery had generated a spark,
which ignited gasoline fumes.

Oil and cellular-phone associations in the U.S. have been unable to
verify the story, and industry officials say it doesn't ring
true. Still, Exxon is taking no chances. Besides advising customers to
turn off their engines and extinguish cigarettes, Exxon stations are
now asking them to switch off their wireless phones.

Spokesman Crawford Bunkley says Exxon decided to print up new warnings
for its gas pumps world-wide to reflect warnings posted in
phone-instruction manuals. But he stresses that the chance of a cell
phone's becoming an ignition source is "remote."

This isn't the first time that cell phones have been blamed in
disasters or diseases. In 1993, the husband of a woman with brain
cancer filed a lawsuit in Florida -- later dismissed -- claiming that
her cell-phone habit fueled the disease. "I don't know why these
suspicions get attached to cellular phones," sighs Jo-Anne Basile of
the Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association.  "People are
clearly concerned about the unknown."

Norm Sandler, Motorola's director for strategic issues, says the
cell-phone story has become "urban folklore," with unconfirmed
incidents of phone-triggered explosions arising every few months in
different parts of the world. But he says the only way a cell phone
could possibly spark a fire at a gas station would be if the caller
were to drop it, causing the battery to dislodge and hit the ground in
a certain way. And even then, it's highly unlikely that the gas fumes
at a filling station are sufficiently concentrated to result in an
ignition.

Yet phone makers can't dismiss the matter entirely.  After all,
standardized instruction manuals caution users to turn off their
phones around "potentially explosive atmospheres," including gas
stations. The alert was based on a now-obsolete U.K. regulation, and
the wireless industry will soon consider deleting it, says
Mr. Sandler.

For now, the warnings haven't discouraged many consumers. Roxana
Campos, manager of a San Francisco Exxon, says the new stickers went
up a week ago, but "a whole lot of people still use cell phones when
they pump gas. They don't really care."

******** End of WSJ Article ********


   -- Best
   -- Arthur
   -- Dr. Arthur Ross
      2325 East Orangewood Avenue
      Phoenix, AZ 85020-4730
      Phone: 602-371-9708
      Fax  : 602-336-7074


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Thanks for passing this along. For
people who wonder why I feel the print media is extremely biased 
toward the Internet, take a look at the second paragraph of the
story by Ms. Chen above.  She relates that something which is 
apparently untrue, or at least has not been confirmed, was 'zipped
along the Internet' as if to say this terrible rumor, which has
posed such a problem for the oil companies is the fault of people
on the net. Next thing you know, WSJ will be claiming they have
never, ever printed something in their paper which was not true.

The print media does not like the Internet because too many people
read and talk about too much news that the papers have not yet
decided how to report, or how to sanitize prior to reporting. As
you read things in the print media from day to day, read carefully
the snide references they make to the net in various articles.  PAT]

------------------------------

From: jt5555@epix.net (Julian Thomas)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:36:23 GMT


In <telecom19.207.13@telecom-digest.org>, on 07/09/99  at 11:19 AM,
James Bellaire <bellaire@tk.com> said:

> Steve Winter asked my opinion on sites such as publiceye and others which
> serve a kind of 'Better Business Bureau' function on the net. This is
> good, and should be encouraged.

I'm not familiar with publiceye, but for computer gear, I've gotten good
input from http://www.sysopt.com/vendsurv.html
 

 Julian Thomas: jt 5555 at epix dot net  http://home.epix.net/~jt
 remove numerics for email
 Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc  http://www.possi.org
 In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!

 Air conditioned environment - Do not open Windows.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 22:06:06 +1000
From: Ralph Seberry <rseberry@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intelligence


On Fri, 09 Jul 1999 18:08:22 -0400 J.F. Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.
ca> wrote:

> Either I am very stupid or the US government is very naive here. Can
> someone please explain to me why preventing export of a US encryption
> product would prevent foreigners from encrypting their data/messages
> with foreign-built encryption systems?

US Software vendors have to choose between supporting two versions of
software (one domestic and one international); or a lowest common
denominator (weak crypto) version. The decision for the mass-market
software vendor is a no-brainer.

So the effect of the regulations is weak crypto in mass-market software
available *domestically*.

------------------------------

From: Harvey Taylor <het@despam.pangea.ca>
Subject: Net Commerce Statistics?  Credit Card Fraud Statistics?
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:05:02 -0700


Hi Folks,

I got into a disagreement about the current statistics for net
commerce [aka icommerce, e-commerce] and net-related credit card
fraud.  I had seen a news story, which I vaguely remembered, but when
I did some web searches could not find definitive reports. [I don't
trust the 'marketing' estimates search engines typically spit out.]

Does anyone happen to have a handle on these stats?

BTW, the Register reports that search engines currently index at max
16% of web data.  [http://www.theregister.co.uk/990709-000015.html]


"The earth is the cradle of mankind, but we cannot stay 
          in the cradle forever." -Konstantin Tsiolkovsky

		 Harvey Taylor     het@despam.pangea.ca

------------------------------

From: jca@majesticsoftware.com
Subject: NPA List - Help Please
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:49:48 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


I'm looking for a source of all NPA splits (completed, active and
future) without having to spend a fortune.  Isn't there some product
besides Telecordia's?  All I need is from/to area codes and affected
prefixes.


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I'll bet Linc Madison, Eric Morson and
John Cropper will have sent you email by this time tomorrow telling
you where to find the data you are seeking. Alternatively, look at the
telecom-related links at http://telecom-digest.org/linkspage.html and
select the very first two items in the list, 'Area Code Insanity' and
'Area Code Madness'. I gave up keeping track of it about the time that
708 was broken off from 312 since it got too confusing. But Linc,
Eric and John are our three specialists now keeping track of it.   PAT]

------------------------------

From: rfc1394a@aol.com (Paul Robinson)
Date: 11 Jul 1999 04:27:22 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Lower-Priced Always-on DSL


http://www.flashcom.com also at 1-877-Flashcom says they have DSL for
as low as $49.95 a month (this is for one to three users.)  Map shows
them available in the Washington, DC area (it's a national map on
their website so the specific area is hard to tell).

Unlike the new dial-up DSL that U.S. West is rolling out in test areas
for about $20 a month plus ISP charges, this company says it is always
on: 'Stop wasting time with "dialup" providers. DSL is always connected 
and free from "per minute" charges.'

It specifically mentions "Unlike cable or wireless technologies, DSL
is a dedicated connection. Perfect for hosting mail, web, or
e-commerce applications."

Actually the pricing isn't bad.  For Maryland customers, one to three
users, two-year contract, 384/128K is $49.95, 768/384K is $79.95
installation and modem are free.  SDSL at 384K both ways is $129 per
month.  I presume the lower number is the return bandwidth.

For a three user service, 200K both ways is $129.95 a month, and the
modem ends up being free after a $200 rebate. 384K both ways is $169
a month, modem and installation are free.  However, if you're willing
to pay $10 a month more (179.95), you can get 416K both ways and the
modem is free after rebate again.  You can get 1/2 of a T1 (768K both
ways) for $259.95 a month, installation and modem free.  All of these
prices presuppose a two-year contract


Paul Robinson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 03:16:27 EDT
From: Danny Burstein <dannyb@panix.com>
Subject: FCC Investigating Minimum Monthly Fees For Long Distance


The Associated Press
07/10/99 1:56 AM Eastern
                                      
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Federal Communications Commission says it will
look into the minimum monthly charges that some long-distance
companies tack onto the bills of consumers who make little or no use
of their services.
   
In a 4-to-1 vote on Friday, the FCC approved the inquiry, which will
begin next week.
   
                  -------------------

Rest of article clipped for the usual reasons. It continues with the
standard speech that most customers have benefited, etc., etc... and
also quotes a few industry types who explain that it costs them money
to service all accounts, including the low usage ones. Pretty much all
of us on c.d.t. have heard it all before.

Nothing currently on the FCC web page, but presumably they'll announce
this in their digest in a cupla days.

------------------------------

From: Joey Lindstrom <Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU>
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 05:41:23 -0600
Reply-To: Joey Lindstrom <Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU>
Subject: FCC to Probe Fees? 


NEW YORK (CNNfn) - Federal regulators will launch an inquiry next week
into monthly minimum charges that some long-distance companies have
begun imposing on certain customers, the {Washington Post} reported
Saturday.

Full story:   http://cnnfn.com/1999/07/10/companies/fcc/


 From the messy desktop of Joey Lindstrom
 Email: Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU or joey@lindstrom.com
 Phone: +1 403 313-JOEY
 FAX:   +1 413 643-0354 (yes, 413 not 403)
 Visit The NuServer!  http://www.GaryNumanFan.NU
 Visit The Webb!      http://webb.GaryNumanFan.NU

 If Windows is User-Friendly, why do you need to read a 678 pg. manual?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:55:56 EDT
From: macy@apk.net (Macy Hallock)
Reply-to: macy@apk.net
Subject: Re: Please Contact FCC re: SBC/Ameritech Merger
Organization: APK Net, Ltd.  Cleveland, Ohio USA


As quoted from sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steven J Sobol):

> On 09 Jul 1999 21:32:06 GMT, stevenl11@aol.comstuffit allegedly said:

>> It would an act of God to stop that merger now.

>> Now on the other hand stopping the GTE HellAtlantic would have a chance.

> Both mergers have their good points ... GTE Wireless is my cellular
> carrier, and I've always been happy with their service. Bell Atlantic
> Mobile has an excellent reputation for customer service also. So I
> don't mind that merger going through. Of course, I don't receive
> landline services from either company ... otherwise my viewpoint might
> be different. ;)

GTE is restructuring itself in anticipation of this merger.

GTE is selling off divisions as we speak. At least two are sold.
There may be more.

GTE has put their midwestern telephone properties up for sale.  (Not
high revenue urban markets like their LA, Tampa and Dallas are ...)

There is some discussion about how their overlapping wireless
territories with BAMS will be dealt with. I've also heard of plans to
spin off the entire division.

Have also heard there are some possible anti-competitive issues to be
resolved with the internet operations of both GTE/BBN and BA Internet
Services have some market overlap and size issues.

Keep in mind that GTE is technically larger than any of the RBOC's
(except BA/Nynex) already.

Yet Alltel services many rural markets, as do Century and Telephone &
Data and wants more ... however Alltel won't buy the GTE midwest
properties 'cuz they are overpriced.

My observation is that GTE _had_ to do something.  And the merger is
their solution, even if it doesn't come to be.

My understanding is that the FCC most PUC's didn't have major issues
with this merger, once the competitive issues above are worked out.

PA. PUC seems pleased that GTE's PA properties would be merged into
BA's.

> The good thing about Ameritech/SBC is ...

> *ponder*

You are correct to ponder this.

Its an anti-competitive mess. And SBC even more anti-competitive
towards small ISP's than Ameritech is.

Several states have gone on record objecting to this merger.  Some,
like IL, have been quite strenuous about it.

(Not Ohio, of course, the PUC and Consumer's Counsel actually took
the bone Ameritech threw them about "low income service area's" and
ignored every other issue.)

The FCC staff has informally said this merger did not make sense to
them. So they appear to have a least of bit of healthy skepticism.

Its not a done deal yet.

Disclaimer: I'm a customer of all of the telco's mentioned except BA.
I'm an ex employee of two of the telco's above. I'm an ISP in Ohio.

And I think the consumers are getting the dirty end of the stick on
all these ILEC mega merger deals.


Macy M. Hallock, Jr. N8OBG  +1.216.241.7166  fax +1.216.241.7522  macy@apk.net
  APK Net, Ltd.   1621 Euclid Ave.   Suite 1230    Cleveland, OH 44115 USA

------------------------------

From: levinjb@gte.net (Joel B Levin)
Subject: Re: *67 and *71
Organization: On the desert
Reply-To: levinjb@gte.net
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:19:47 GMT


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Actually, no Casey, you do not have
> to pause; you can plow straight through it in my experience ...

This is switch dependent.  Most places I have tried this, the switch
echoes a stutter dial tone to acknowledge the *70 and doesn't listen
till after that.  These switches drop the first two or three digits of
the number if you don't pause.


/JBL


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: If the switch is not listening when it
is sending stutter dialtone, how do people who have voicemail with
stutter dialtone as the message-waiting indicator ever get to make
any calls? The stutter dialtone never goes away for them if there is
a message in their box does it? When I have had telco voicemail in
the past, the stutter dialtone did not just stay there a couple
seconds and go away, it just kept on stuttering as long as I sat there
listening to it. Once I no longer had 'new messages' I no longer got
stutter dial tone. 

By the way, if you do have telco voicemail from Ameritech, I think
most switches allow the use of *98 or *97 as a shortcut 'speed dial'
to voicemail for message retrieval. See if it works in your central
office.   PAT]

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #210
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Mon Jul 12 02:59:04 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA20281;
	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 02:59:04 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 02:59:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907120659.CAA20281@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #211

TELECOM Digest     Mon, 12 Jul 99 02:59:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 211

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: Satellite GPS Can Locate Wireless Phones Within 15 Feet (Bill Newkirk)
    Re: Have You Used Siemens Hicom 150E (Chris)
    Re: Third Voice Rips Holes in Web (Walter Dnes)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Derek Balling)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Steve Winter)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Anthony Argyriou)
    Re: *67 and *71 (Joel B. Levin)
    Re: *67 and *71 (Bill Meek)
    Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts (Derek Balling)
    Re: Proving Negatives/Cell Phones & Gas Stations (Anthony Argyriou)
    Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers? (Adam H. Kerman)
    Calling Number ID and Cellular (Lauren Weinstein)
    Re: Please Contact FCC re: SBC/Ameritech Merger (Steven J. Sobol)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bill Newkirk <wnewkirk@iu.net>
Subject: Re: Satellite GPS Can Locate Wireless Phones Within 15 Feet
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:20:34 -0400
Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com


Isn't this what the crew in Star Trek has with their "badges"? if they
have their comm-badge with 'em, they can be located OR selectively
called by the ship or others in the away team?

The folks in the Federation don't seem to mind having a universal
locator/pager/telephone they wear just about 100% of the time.

So it must certainly be just fine in the future ... and the future
must be like star trek, right?

Bud Couch wrote in message ...

> The key to this is "location of all 911 calls", whereas the Lucent
> "enhancement" does not require a 911, or actually, any, call to be in
> progress. By the simple fact of carrying a cell phone, your personal
> location can be determined. Now, from a technical point of view, this
> is a logical extension, and was probably not exceptionally difficult
> to do. But from a political policy point of view it is negligent, at
> best, and criminal at worst.

Probably could track 'em by noticing the discontinuity in location between
the time it "disappeared" and the time it appeared again.

Leonard Erickson wrote in message ...
> And in both his scenario and yours, I can just stick the phone inside
> my lunchbox, which *just happens* to be all metal and form a nice
> faraday cage when closed. Heck, just wrapping it in alumium foil may
> work.

> The phone can't respond to signals that never reach it, nor can it send
> a signal that'll get anywhere outside the box. :-)

------------------------------

From: Christopher W. Boone <cboone@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Have You Used Siemens Hicom 150E
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 20:05:45 -0500
Organization: Clear Channel Radio, Dallas TEXAS - Engineering


Stay away from Siemens ... if you want a somewhat tech friendly switch
get a Nortel Meridian Opt11 or Lucent PBX (NOT the Legend ... it is
almost as bad as the HICOM).

Chris

> I am considering the purchase of a Siemens Hicom 150E phone system.
> If you have used this system, I would like to hear your opinion about
> it.

------------------------------

From: waltdnes@interlog.com (Walter Dnes)
Subject: Re: Third Voice Rips Holes in Web
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 02:04:53 GMT
Organization: Interlog Internet Services


On 10 Jul 1999 08:51:58 -0400, Tom.Horsley@worldnet.att.net
(Thomas A. Horsley) wrote:

> You still have to install the Third Voice software on your
> computer to have a problem. Since only morons will use it,
> only morons have problems :-).

 [...deletia...]

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: No, no ... the morons who
> install it will not have the problem, the web sites where
> they use it will have the problem. At least that's how I
> read it.  Was I wrong?   PAT]

  Not very often; but this time it's a resounding YES.  Let's
start from square 1.

  Many ISP's have local caching   Third Voice has local
  web proxies.                    caching web proxies.

  If your ISP's web proxy is      If you don't install Third
  not the "transparent" kind,     Voice's software and/or use
  you can bypass it and connect   their proxy, you'll see the
  direct to an exterior website.  original, "untouched" website.

  If you use your ISP's caching   If you use Third Voice, it
  proxy, you could see a *LOCAL   will route your http lookups
  CACHED COPY* rather than the    through their caching proxy.
  original website.               You could see a *LOCAL
                                  CACHED COPY ON THEIR PROXY*.

  Unlike your ISP, Third Voice allows third parties to mark
up the local cached copy, but otherwise the principle is
exactly the same.  ISP A may have a web caching proxy, but
it won't affect what ISP B's customers see when they connect
via ISP B unless they deliberately invoke ISP A's web proxy
in their browser configurations.

  I don't know Third Voice's reaction to this, but I wouldn't be
surprised if the following experiment works ... find out the IP
address of Third Voice's caching proxy and manually define it as the
caching proxy in your browser.  You might see the marked up webpages
without Third Voice's software.

  On the other hand, if you *DON'T* want to browse the marked up
copies, don't use Third Voice's software or caching proxy.


Walter Dnes <waltdnes@interlog.com> procmail spamfilter
http://www.interlog.com/~waltdnes/spamdunk/spamdunk.htm
Why a fiscal conservative opposes Toronto 2008 OWE-lympics
http://www.interlog.com/~waltdnes/owe-lympics/owe-lympics.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:41:07 -0700
From: Derek Balling <dredd@megacity.org>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce


>Returning to the original definitions would be good:

>  .ORG - owned by organizations/not for profit
>  .NET - owned by network operators
>  .COM - owned by commercial entities/for profit/misc

Can you show me where this was "originally defined"? .ORG has always been 
the "misc" category, and nowhere that I can find (in a true "definition" 
has it ever been reserved for not-for-profit. (Many have made that claim, 
thinking ORG=Non-Profit-Organization, but I've yet to find anything 
resembling an official document to that effect).

> IIRC their swiper is part of the keyboard (connects through the
> keyboard port of the machine) so a salesmaker could type the
> information and the machine would not know if it was swipe or type.

Correct. In many of those cases, the card-swipe sits on the
keyboard-cable (and acts as a passthru object for the regular
keyboard) and allows the cardswipe to simply act as though keys were
typed on the numeric keypad.  Similar items also exist for bar code
scanners.

> Meijer stores in the midwest have the customer sign an electronic
> pad, much like the ones you sign when accepting a UPS package.  At
> first they just stored the signature, but now the register prints
> a second reciept with the signature for store use.

I've had a lot of fun with stores, since knowing security (or lack
thereof) as I do, I steadfastly refuse to sign on those pads. :)

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I agree that site names should be
> required to correctly reflect the contents and that 'search engine
> spam' (or manipulating what the engine sees, etc) for the purpose
> of manipulating the site's placement in the listings is a totally
> unacceptable practice.

I disagree, Pat. Intelligent search engines will be the ones people
use. As I mentioned in my earlier message, search engines like Yahoo
and about.com that use real humans instead of spiders to index sites
provide value-add that other search engines cannot match. Its strictly
capitalism ... you can either go to a site that can "have the ballot
stuffed" as it were, or go to a site where the search hits are more
relevant to your search terms, as decided by a real-live-breathing
human being.

> I also believe commercial sites should be
> limited to one or two sites under the same ownership when the
> sites essentially dealt with the same subject. I would charge them
> more money for registering second or subsequent domain names just
> for the sake of having still one more frivilous name out there.

Never happen. Ford Motor Company certainly wants to have www.ford.com,
www.mustang.com, www.taurus.com, etc., just as other large companies
want to cover all their bases.

More importantly, the restictions on TLD's need to come down, so that
more TLD's can be opened up.

> new rules, you must follow them also. Since .com has always been
> defined as a place for COMmercial sites,

Any "business" can claim a .com as an advertising expense. Likewise,
any person can claim it is for a home business, or a money-making
hobby. The only way to enforce it is to demand that you surrender tax
records to InterNIC ... ain't gonna happen. I trust InterNIC as far as
I safely spit a large NYC sewer rat.

> just as EDUcational sites
> and non-profit ORGanizations have places assigned to them,

See above on the "non-profit / .ORG" situation.

> possibility of a new territory called PRIvate, to be used by just
> individual people who wish to have a web presence.

See the proposed ".NOM" TLD. (nom being French, I believe?)  This TLD,
along with a bunch of others, is currently mired in 14 tons of
bureaucracy before it can actually get implemented, but it IS on the
drawing board.


D

------------------------------

From: steve@sellcom.com (Steve Winter)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 04:00:57 GMT
Organization: WWW.SELLCOM.COM
Reply-To: steve@sellcom.com


J.F. Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> spake thusly and wrote:

> The one aspect that is hard to control is the phoney store-front where
> they capture your credit card number and info and sell them to card
> counterfeit outfits and don't deliver any goods.  (or perhaps grant
> you access to their XXX site).

Very few years ago we had a fraudulent phone order (this was before we
were doing internet transactions).  To make a long story short I managed
to keep them on the phone the next day while the detective drove out
to the mall phone booth where the kids were (on the phone waiting
for us to get the FedEx man to bring their order to them heh heh ...).

They were captured.  But what is almost funny is:  They had put up a
porn site (web or BBS, I don't remember) and this credit worthy citizen 
had provided his credit card info for access. They just took his number 
and went phone shopping. (they had good taste in modems and this was back 
when a decent USR was quite a few hundred dollars).

Telecom Digest Editor said:

> Steve Winter asked my opinion on sites such as publiceye and others
> which serve a kind of 'Better Business Bureau' function on the net.
> This is good, and should be encouraged. Assuming those organizations
> **have teeth and can enforce the use of their logo** I think voluntary
> participation in them shows the merchant's good faith in working with
> the net community. This is the same reason that I applied for, and

The way it works is that the logo contains a link to the merchants
record and says something like "click for report".  For SELLCOM
the code is http://208.8.12.151/report.cfm?key=4779 and then anyone
can see our report.

So it is much more than the mere appearance of a logo, but rather the 
ability to go immediately and check out the status of the online business.

We would be listed with more places, but I don't want to have to 
give browsers a cookie just to look at our site.

As you mentioned as "desirable" elsewhere in your post, we publish
our phone, 800 phone and physical address etc.


Regards,

Steve

http://www.sellcom.com
Cyclades Siemens EnGenius Zoom at discount prices.
SSL Secure VISA/MC/AMEX Online ordering
Listed at http://www.thepubliceye.com as SELLCOM
New Brick Wall "non-MOV" surge protection

------------------------------

From: anthony@alphageo.com (Anthony Argyriou)
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 02:55:02 GMT
Organization: Alpha Geotechnical
Reply-To: anthony@alphageo.com


Rickman <spamgoeshere4@yahoo.com> wrote:

> But how do you call people if 60% or 80% (I forget which) of the people
> in CA have you blocked? 

Is that _really_ the percentage of Californians who use automatic call
rejection? With 50%+ of all numbers not giving out Caller-ID, I see no
need for a caller-id box or service, and I can't imagine that many
people would automatically reject "private/unavailable" calls. I've
_never_ gotten a message saying my call was rejected, and I have
automatic no-id.


Anthony Argyriou

------------------------------

From: levinjb@gte.net (Joel B Levin)
Subject: Re: *67 and *71
Organization: On the desert
Reply-To: levinjb@gte.net
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:32:15 GMT


In <telecom19.210.11@telecom-digest.org>, levinjb@gte.net (Joel B
Levin) wrote:

> This is switch dependent.  Most places I have tried this, the switch
> echoes a stutter dial tone to acknowledge the *70 and doesn't listen
> till after that.  These switches drop the first two or three digits of
> the number if you don't pause.

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: If the switch is not listening when it
> is sending stutter dialtone, how do people who have voicemail with
> stutter dialtone as the message-waiting indicator ever get to make
> any calls? The stutter dialtone never goes away for them if there is
> a message in their box does it?  . . . ]

I was loose in my technical terminology.  What I hear after *70 in
(for instance) Nashua, NH, Bell Atlantic territory, is two quick
bursts of dial tone followed by continuous dial tone ("boop boop
booooooo...p").  Numbers dialed during the boop-boop are not heard.
This isn't theory of switch operation, it's what has happened when you
tried it on those switches.  The behavior of the US West switch in
Casa Grande, AZ which serves me now is similar, except the two beeps
are the tones used for busy signal rather than for dial tone.

This is not stutter dial-tone in the technical sense, what you
referred to, and I apologize for confusing the issue (even if the
boop-boop does sound like a stutter).


/JBL

------------------------------

From: billmeek@enteract.com (Bill Meek)
Subject: Re: *67 and *71
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:52:19 GMT
Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server


On Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:28:34 EST, Casey.Mak@wirechf.xg.com (Casey Mak)
wrote:

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Do you think my ISP could teach me how
> to do something like that? Maybe I will ask him tomorrow. Actually, 
> no Casey, you do not have to pause; you can plow straight through it
> in my experience.

Both of you are correct.  In a previous life, I wrote code that caused
test devices to dial calls (among other things).  The 5ESS was able to
accept digits without a pause.  The DMS100 would miss digits if a
pause wasn't inserted.  In both of these cases, these were lab
machines and the above was true even with the load boxes turned off. I
can't speak to all combinations of feature codes or other switch
types.


Bill

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:52:40 -0700
From: Derek Balling <dredd@megacity.org>
Subject: Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts


>> Could someone please explain to me how HR354 makes criminals out of
>> Amazon and Yahoo?

> In Yahoo's case, web spidering is enough like trolling through someone
> else's database to sound alarms.

That's all well and good except that Yahoo doesn't spider. Yahoo
employs a team of human beings who individually review data, submitted
by users, for inclusion in their database. The only data (that I'm
aware of, I work in engineering, not in surfing) stored in that
transaction is the e-mail address of the submitter, the URL in
question, a brief description (displayed in the search results), along
with some miscellaneous extraneous info (submission date, publication
date, who reviewed it, etc. etc., but nothing demographic about the
owner of the URL _TO_MY_KNOWLEDGE_.


Derek Balling
dredd@megacity.org /
dballing<funkysymbol>yahoo-inc.moc
(don't really want to put THAT one out there for harvesters to find *g*)


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: And that is one of the reasons I
consider Yahoo to be about the best site on the net today; they carefully 
review each site and have a very good directory. Their news ticker
service is very good also. It was broken for awhile but seems to be
working okay now. I think it is very unfortunate that they got mixed
up with Geocities recently -- I honestly do not know who bought who,
or if was a straight merger or what -- but I certainly hope that Yahoo
does not now start on that popup window advertising stuff. Hopefully
Yahoo will be able to raise Geocities to its level, rather than Yahoo
getting dragged down to the same level of disrepect that most netizens
have for Geocities. I guess time will tell.  I always personally look
at sites which have requested being listed in little directory I have
at http://telecom-digest.org/linkspage.html and only put in sites that
I feel are equal to or better than my own. PAT]

------------------------------

From: anthony@alphageo.com (Anthony Argyriou)
Subject: Re: Proving Negatives/Cell Phones & Gas Stations
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 03:14:10 GMT
Organization: Alpha Geotechnical
Reply-To: anthony@alphageo.com


Arthur Ross <a.ross@ieee.org> wrote:

> Norm Sandler, Motorola's director for strategic issues, says the
> cell-phone story has become "urban folklore," with unconfirmed
> incidents of phone-triggered explosions arising every few months in
> different parts of the world. But he says the only way a cell phone
> could possibly spark a fire at a gas station would be if the caller
> were to drop it, causing the battery to dislodge and hit the ground in
> a certain way. And even then, it's highly unlikely that the gas fumes
> at a filling station are sufficiently concentrated to result in an
> ignition.

In my experience, the much greater risk would be sparks on stepping
out of the car. It happens to me about one time in three, and that
spark is less than a foot off the ground, where the vapor
concentration is likely much closer to LEL than up where I keep a cell
phone while using it.


Anthony Argyriou

------------------------------

From: Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.chinet.com>
Subject: Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers?
Organization: Chinet - Public Access since 1982
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 03:55:41 GMT


Linc Madison <LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com> wrote:

> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.chinet.com> wrote:

>> I'm not aware that there is an existing privacy right. Wireless
>> communications take place in the shared public spectrum. Use of a
>> pager does not convey an exclusive license to a portion of the
>> spectrum while telemetry is sent.

>> We have the right to be secure in our person, papers, and
>> possessions. But we have another right, a natural right to use the
>> public way. That includes the airwaves. The more rights we grant
>> individuals to use the public way and exclude everyone else, the more
>> we infringe upon our own rights.

> By that logic, law enforcement should be permitted to do a wiretap
> of any regular telephone line, without a court order, with only the
> consent of the telco, since it is not necessary to enter the
> subscriber's premises to do so.  Indeed, if the wiretap could be
> effected at the point where the telephone wires are crossing the
> "public way," then your logic would allow for unregulated wiretaps
> by anyone for any purpose, so long as they did not damage anyone's
> property.

You ignore my chief concern, as usual, which is assigning exclusive
rights to a portion of the radio spectrum. A telephone cable, even
when in the public way, is still private property. Allowing utilities
to use the public way does not exclude all other users. You make an
apples and oranges argument.

Giving a privacy right to communications which use the public radio
spectrum excludes others. If such a right is desireable, it should be
sold at market value. Otherwise cell phone users, cordless phone
users, and pager users should assume someone could be listening and
take appropriate steps.

Years ago, we had a broadcast television station in Chicago with a
scrambled signal; that was an outrage.


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Do you remember how all the guys would
either make their own decoder boxes for Channel 44 or else if they
were not good at that sort of thing they would buy one from someone
else? Do you remember how Channel 44 sent out SWAT teams looking for
people with those boxes so they could confiscate them? They would
run entrapment classified ads in newspapers saying they wanted to
buy a 'channel 44 box' then if some guy took the bait and arranged
to meet them in the parking lot at McDonald's the cops would swoop
in and arrest the guy, arranged for of course by the lawyers at
Channel 44. They played a lot of semantic games. If you had boxes
for sale and claimed they were 'genuine', the lawyers would try to
get you for fraud saying the only genuine boxes were the ones which
Channel 44 licensed and which came from its manufacturer. If you made
no claim that what you were selling was 'genuine' then they would try
to say you were stealing their signal (which only went through the
air, it had nothing to do with a cable of any sort). 

Presently the heat got so bad that no one would deal in the converter
boxes publicly at all. Quite a few of the guys started selling 
educational kits instead, for people who liked experimenting with
RF signals. They would assemble most of the parts, but leave two
parts for the end user to fasten in place. They'd include a notice
which said put part 'A' in slot 'A' and part 'B' in slot 'B' and the
notice further warned that 'if you do it the other way around by
accident, you will possibly see on your screen or hear from your
speaker the signal from a local pay-TV station. If you accidentally
get the parts connected wrong and notice the pay-TV reception on
your screen you must immediatly disconnect those parts because it is
illegal to steal their signal ... or if you decide you want to
continue receiving the signal from that pay-TV company you are
required to immediatly notify them and begin paying their monthly
fee.' When all the educational hobby kits started showing up the
Channel 44 lawyers got real obnoxious again and tried to get that
stopped also. They never could get that stopped except in a couple
cases; I am not sure why they succeeded on those two cases. Mostly
they would pick on the guys they knew had no money or resources to
fight back. 

I felt for myself it was best only to teach people how to do it but
not personally supply the parts. Those lawyers were even trying to get
the people who would deliver the necessary parts without actually
putting them together. So what I did was start an organ- ization
called the Radio Hobbyists Guild. The purpose of the Guild was to
teach people about convertor boxes for RF signals, such as those sent
out by Channel 44, and that it was illegal to build boxes like those I
illustrated in my tutorial booklet. I included detailed schematics
(someone helped by making these for me), a parts list, and step by
step instructions on what NOT to do in the order given to keep from
creating an illegal decoder box. On each page of my illustrated and I
think rather well written and arranged tutorial, I included the
statement in large letters, "DO NOT DO THE THINGS LISTED HERE BECAUSE
IT IS ILLEGAL."  All of the schematics and illustrations also noted
that 'if you do it exactly in the way it is shown here, it will be an
illegal to operate converter box for Channel 44'. I included several
'friendly' stores which sold electronic parts and cautioned the
readers of my tutorial that they should obtain the parts but make no
statement to the store clerk about building a box like this, because
if he sold you the parts knowing your intentions for them, he might be
guilty of conspiracy. People could order my tutorial through the mail
by sending just five dollars to the Radio Hobbyists Guild in care of
my post office box; their tutorial would be be mailed out the same
day. On the front and back covers I stressed that 'this tutorial will
show you a way in which electronic parts must NOT be connected if you
do not want to do anything illegal.' I also enclosed with each
tutorial I mailed out (a couple hundred in total) a copy of the
pertinent FCC regulations about overhearing radio signals which were
not intended for yourself.

I was really glad to see that rip-off bunch go out of business. 
I guess most people were because only a very small number of people
actually signed up for 'legal' service with a decoder box to go with
it. About 90 percent I would say of the viewers had built their own
box or bought it from a pirate source. That was about 1980 I guess.
We also talked about it a lot on CB radio and since many of the CB'ers
were also radio and television techs some of them held their own
tutorials, giving lessons over the radio to anyone who wanted to 
listen in, but the lawyers from Channel 44 would listen to the radio
at night also and try to trick the guys into meeting them 'privatly'
somewhere to 'do business' by sounding real sincere.    PAT]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 99 22:05 PDT
From: lauren@vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: Calling Number ID and Cellular


Greetings.  Stanley Cline (sc1@roamer1.org) writes:

> Many cellular and PCS carriers now list the number of incoming calls
> on bills; some (primarily GSM carriers for some odd reason) list the
> number of incoming calls where the caller dialed *67, others don't.
> The numbers are received using caller ID, *not* ANI.

I've heard such reports in the past, but whenever I've checked into
them with the companies involved, they've failed to pan out.  In some
cases, I've taken this question to very high levels within the
companies.  If any readers believe they are seeing numbers on their
bills from incoming calls that have Calling Number ID blocked, I'd
like to know the names of the companies and the locations involved.

Any such display of blocked numbers on billing materials would pretty
clearly be a serious violation of Calling Number ID handling
regulations, with a range of major implications.


 --Lauren--
Lauren Weinstein
lauren@vortex.com
Moderator, PRIVACY Forum --- http://www.vortex.com
Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy
Host, "Vortex Daily Reality Report & Unreality Trivia Quiz"
  --- http://www.vortex.com/reality

------------------------------

From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steven J Sobol)
Subject: Re: Please Contact FCC re: SBC/Ameritech Merger
Date: 12 Jul 1999 05:08:54 GMT
Organization: North Shore Technologies Corp. 888.480.4NET


On Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:55:56 EDT, macy@apk.net allegedly said:

> There is some discussion about how their overlapping wireless
> territories with BAMS will be dealt with. I've also heard of plans to
> spin off the entire division.

As long as the service stays good ... I've had NOTHING but good service
from GTE and have heard only positive comments about Bell Atlantic Mobile
on alt.cellular.

>> The good thing about Ameritech/SBC is ...

>> *ponder*

> You are correct to ponder this.

> Its an anti-competitive mess. And SBC even more anti-competitive
> towards small ISP's than Ameritech is.

So what are we (ISP's) doing to deal with the merger? I tried
www.phonereform.org and got nowhere. They haven't called me back in
three months. Maybe Ameritech caught wind of what they're doing and
cut off their phone service. :P

> Several states have gone on record objecting to this merger.  Some,
> like IL, have been quite strenuous about it.

> (Not Ohio, of course, the PUC and Consumer's Counsel actually took
> the bone Ameritech threw them about "low income service area's" and
> ignored every other issue.)

Flaming idiots ... I figure that the Ohio PUC has been bought. That's
the only logical explanation. That, or they're all smoking crack. :)

(Never attribute to malice or stupidity what is more properly
attributed to corruption. :)


North Shore Technologies: We don't just build websites. We build relationships.
(But not with spammers. Spammers get billed a minimum of $1000 for cleanup!)
888.480.4NET [active now, forwards to my pager] - 216.619.2NET [as of 7/1/99]
Proud host of the Forum for Responsible and Ethical E-mail -  www.spamfree.org

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #211
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Mon Jul 12 14:32:18 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA12384;
	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:32:18 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:32:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907121832.OAA12384@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #212

TELECOM Digest     Mon, 12 Jul 99 14:32:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 212

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    "Caller ID Capital of the World" (Wayne Lorentz)
    U S West Telephone Customers Can Call Ahead to Year 2000 (Tad Cook)
    Re: Proving Negatives/Cell Phones & Gas Stations (Steven J. Sobol)
    Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intell (Steve Sobol)
    Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intell (TanMD)
    Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intell (R. Freeman)
    Re: International Calls to Cellular = Big $$$ (Peter Corlett)
    Re: International Calls to Cellular = Big $$$ (David Clayton)
    Re: Satellite GPS Can Locate Wireless Phones Within 15 Feet (Andrew Green)
    Re: SLC and Power Failure (Matt Simpson)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: aa@/THOUSHALTNOTSPAM/worldnet.att.net (Wayne Lorentz)
Subject: "Caller ID Capital of the World"
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:40:31 GMT
Organization: Fairlight Genetics - "Making Perfect People Every Day."


Telephones become crime-stopping tools with caller ID

HOUSTON (AP) -- Caller ID devices have become as common in Texas homes
as dishwashers and compact disc players and are even more common than
computers, Southwestern Bell says.

Last week, for the first time, caller ID eclipsed call-waiting as the
phone company's most popular add-on service, the {Houston Chronicle}
noted in its Sunday editions.

And Southwestern Bell says its surveys indicate that 80 percent of
customers are convinced that having caller ID reduces or controls
harassing phone calls.

The service costs $6.50 a month plus installation and hardware.
Southwestern Bell says it added 595,000 caller ID subscribers in the
first three months of 1999 in the five-state southwest region.

Officials also say telephones with caller ID have become effective
crime-stopping tools.

When Austin public schools were peppered with 40 telephone bomb
threats immediately after the Colorado school shootings, authorities
had little trouble catching several young suspects.

Nearly all 911 emergency systems use the service to verify
incoming-call locations. Businesses including pizzerias, delivery
services and taxi companies routinely use caller ID to thwart
pranksters and deter fraud.

Nationally, more than 25 percent of phone lines are equipped with the
detection equipment, but Southwestern Bell says 55 percent of Texas
lines are set up for the service.

In Houston and San Antonio, the service's penetration rate is right at
55 percent, with 53 percent in Dallas. The company describes Laredo as
the "caller ID capital of the world" because of its 70 percent rate.

Critics lambasted caller ID in 1995 when a San Antonio woman was
killed as a result of information obtained by her ex-boyfriend.  Yet,
the same technology led to the recent conviction of two Galveston
murder suspects who were caught in a lie by caller ID.

Last week, Mark Thomas Dixon was found guilty of capital murder in the
1997 slaying of Curtis Holder, his girlfriend's husband. The
girlfriend, Barbara Holder, also was convicted and given a life
sentence.

Three days after Holder was slain, an acquaintance helping to care for
the Holders' child alerted police when Barbara Holder called claiming
to be at the police station while she apparently was calling from a
Webster hotel. Police arrested her and Dixon at the hotel.

"A lot of crooks are not the brightest individuals in the world,"
retired Austin police Sgt. Sam Cox, a radio commentator, said. "But
nothing's infallible, and the longer it's in place, the more bad guys
and bad gals will be able to circumvent this situation."

Calls to some numbers -- 911 or numbers with the prefixes 700, 800,
888 or 900 -- cannot be blocked. But a $20 "caller ID blocker" device,
available at electronics shops, prevents the identity of the caller
from being revealed to other numbers.

Texans can have their identities blocked for free if they request the
service known as "per line blocking" in writing. Or they can block it
for free on a per-call basis by first dialing star-67.

Users of caller ID also can program their phones to reject calls made
by those who block their identities, a tactic often used by
telemarketers. Many simply screen out telemarketers, who often hang up
if an answering machine answers, by not picking up incoming anonymous
calls.

Caller ID hardware was invented in 1983 and first offered to the
public by New Jersey Bell in 1987, but it wasn't approved in Texas
until 1993.

(Copyright 1999 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

------------------------------

Subject: U S West Telephone Customers Can Call Ahead to Year 2000 
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 00:15:54 PDT
From: tad@ssc.com (Tad Cook)


By Peter Roper, The Pueblo Chieftain, Colo.
Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News

Jul. 11--U S West is offering customers a chance to call the year 2000
 -- right now -- as a way to reassure people that their telephones will
function properly next year and not be crippled by the year 2000
computer problem, commonly called Y2K.

The telephone company has set up a public network switch with an
internal clock system that is running a year ahead of the present, in
the year 2000.

By calling the switch, and getting an answer, a customer can be assured
that their personal telephone system will function after Jan. 1.

"It's a way to self-check your telephones for Y2K readiness," said
Abel Chavez, U S West district manager. "We hope it will reassure
people that the public network is prepared for the Y2K problem. Right
now, about 95 percent of our network has been tested and is ready."

To check your telephone, call 877-837-8925 (toll free if you are U S
West customer). For other telephone users, call 303-787-2000.

More information about the self-check system is available on the U S
West Web site on the Internet (at www.uswest.com/year2000). Customers
can also check whether their local switching system has been upgraded
and repaired for Y2K problems, simply by typing in their phone
numbers.

"The switches that serve the Pueblo area are Y2K ready and I've
personally checked the local telephone exchanges on-line," Chavez said
Friday.

U S West serves customers in a 14-state region and it has roughly
1,400 switches routing calls through that region. All together, the
company reported to the federal Security and Exchange Commission that
it would spend about $240 million repairing its public network and
business technology systems for Y2K problems.

U S West began work on the Y2K problem in 1996. As public awareness of
the computer problem grew, U S West has stressed to the public that
anxiety about the Y2K problem can become a self-fulfilling prophecy is
eveyone tries to make a "check the phone" call in the early minutes of
Jan. 1, 2000. That would overload the system.

While Pueblo city officials reported last month that the city's 911
emergency phone network needs to be replaced because of Y2K problems,
Chavez reminded customers that they will be able to call for police,
fire or ambulance assistance directly, just by using the regular
seven-digit phone numbers.

"We've all gotten used to using 911 for emergencies, but people should
keep in mind that the regular telephone numbers will function next
year, whether a local 911 system is ready or not," he said.

------------------------------

From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steven J Sobol)
Subject: Re: Proving Negatives/Cell Phones & Gas Stations
Date: 12 Jul 1999 05:12:19 GMT
Organization: North Shore Technologies Corp. 888.480.4NET


On Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:03:24 -0700, a.ross@ieee.org allegedly said:

> Norm Sandler, Motorola's director for strategic issues, says the
> cell-phone story has become "urban folklore," with unconfirmed
> incidents of phone-triggered explosions arising every few months in
> different parts of the world. But he says the only way a cell phone
> could possibly spark a fire at a gas station would be if the caller
> were to drop it, causing the battery to dislodge and hit the ground in
> a certain way.

(With the battery's metal contacts scraping the ground and causing a
spark.)


North Shore Technologies: We don't just build websites. We build relationships.
(But not with spammers. Spammers get billed a minimum of $1000 for cleanup!)
888.480.4NET [active now, forwards to my pager] - 216.619.2NET [as of 7/1/99]
Proud host of the Forum for Responsible and Ethical E-mail -  www.spamfree.org

------------------------------

From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steven J Sobol)
Subject: Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intelligence
Date: 12 Jul 1999 05:17:44 GMT
Organization: North Shore Technologies Corp. 888.480.4NET


On Sat, 10 Jul 1999 22:26:17 -0400, ed_ellers@msn.com allegedly said:

> export restrictions, strong crypto programs would then be made freely
> available on FTP sites in the U.S., and the theory is that the French
> government would see this as interfering in their domestic affairs and
> would retaliate by being even less cooperative with the U.S. than they
> already are (for example, they might ignore the embargo on oil exports
> from Iraq).

So what are they doing about other countries that allow the use of strong
crypto?


North Shore Technologies: We don't just build websites. We build relationships.
(But not with spammers. Spammers get billed a minimum of $1000 for cleanup!)
888.480.4NET [active now, forwards to my pager] - 216.619.2NET [as of 7/1/99]
Proud host of the Forum for Responsible and Ethical E-mail -  www.spamfree.org

------------------------------

From: tuanmd@scn.org (TuanMD)
Subject: Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intelligence
Reply-To: tuanmd@scn.org
Organization: Seattle Community Network
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:56:46 GMT


In article <telecom19.207.12@telecom-digest.org>, J.F. Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:

> Monty Solomon wrote:

>> The SIGINT capabilities of the United States can be signifi-
>> cantly compromised by the use of encryption.

> Either I am very stupid or the US government is very naive here. Can
> someone please explain to me why preventing export of a US encryption
> product would prevent foreigners from encrypting their data/messages
> with foreign-built encryption systems?

Of course not.

> Does the United States of America *really* believe that it is the only
> one of the world capable of building encryption systems that cannot be
> defeated?

Nope, not really, not right now; but nothing wrong if we aim to achieve
that status.

> Does it really believe that other developped countries
> don't have good enough education systems to produce scientists capable
> of generating very strong algorythms?

You misspelled "developed" and "algorithms" but I guess your education
is good enough. (Just kidding, don't you get bent out of shape. Now only
if I can find a good grammar checker.)

> I am sorry if this sounds nasty, but I sincerely fail to understand
> why the United States of America continues to insist on preventing
> encryption exports.  I assume that there must be some valid reason
> somewhere.

Remember the time when Soviet's submarines suddenly become just as
quiet as US' subs when the Russia was able to obtain softwares and
hardwares (to machine their subs' propellers) through leaky export
controls.  Their engineers and mathematicians may have figured out the
shape of the ultra-quiet sub's propeller but it may take years for
their manufacturing technology to catch up with the West. The delay
would represent an edge over strategic defense and negotiation
advantage.  (We coulda maintain that edge and widen the gap.)

As far as current encryption technology goes, the prevention of
encryption exports may not help much but perhaps all it does is trying
to maintain a slight edge IF some new developments turn up in the US.

It is stupid to think that strong encryption technology can only come
from US but the possibility is the next breakthrough may come out of
US' research programs and the law acts as a valve just in case. If we
wait until the threat is realized by hindsight then it may be already
too late.

That's my 2 cents. uh ... I mean 2.8 cents if you read this in Canada.

Tuan

PS: Your questions should be posted in a cryptology related newsgroup.
Jimmymac, would you please suggest one. Thanks.

------------------------------

From: rfreeman@netaxs.com (Richard Freeman)
Subject: Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intelligence
Date: 12 Jul 1999 15:03:29 GMT
Organization: newsread.com ISP News Reading Service (http://www.newsread.com)


On Fri, 09 Jul 1999 18:08:22 -0400, J.F. Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:

> Monty Solomon wrote:

>>> The SIGINT capabilities of the United States can be signifi-
>>> cantly compromised by the use of encryption.

> Does the United States of America *really* believe that it is the only
> one of the world capable of building encryption systems that cannot be
> defeated?  Does it really believe that other developped countries
> don't have good enough education systems to produce scientists capable
> of generating very strong algorythms?

This seems like a moot argument to me.  International versions of PGP
(with full 128bit session keys and 2048 bit RSA keys) are easily
downloadable over the net.  These can be downloaded from any country
that does not censor them in some manner.  I can see how making it
more difficult to obtain advanced crypto (ie the downloaded version of
Netscape is 56bit) might make it easy for the common citizen deciding
to engage in a little fraud to make the mistake of not realizing that
his SSL connection is insecure.  On the other hand, any organization
like a terrorist one would have the specific goal of having
clandestine communication, and would download free of charge (and more
difficult to trace) something like PGP or PGPfone, which is not
feasible to decrypt with modern technology and which doesn't even cost
them a cent besides.

Commercial encryption software which is the whole center of the
argument appeals more to a business as it generally features
transparency and ease of use - people don't buy them because they are
hard to break, but because they are easy to use (meaning they are more
likely to be used in the first place).  If you just want to encrypt a
disk file before emailing it there are tons of programs which are
already free to do it.  So the software which is being blocked by
current legislation is of more use to a business than a terrorist
anyway.  Besides, who knows what backdoors exist in commercial
software, a real terrorist would download the source to something like
PGP, compile it themselves, and know what they are using.


Richard T. Freeman <rfreeman@netaxs.com> - finger for pgp key
3D CB AF BD FF E8 0B 10 4E 09 27 00 8D 27 E1 93 
http://www.netaxs.com/~rfreeman - ftp.netaxs.com/people/rfreeman

------------------------------

From: abuse@verrine.demon.co.uk (Peter Corlett)
Subject: Re: International Calls to Cellular = Big $$$
Date: 11 Jul 1999 21:25:56 GMT
Organization: B13 Cabal


Admin  <Antilles@AnteLink.com> wrote:

> Countries that appear on the rate sheet which have "cellular" as well as
> "regular" rates are: [...] U.K.

It is quite expensive to call a mobile phone in the UK, as compared to calls
to landlines. Here's a sample of the retail prices for calls that Cable and
Wireless offer on their UK Call tariff, dated 2/1/99:

	 	Daytime		Evening		Night		Weekend
		0800-1800	1800-2200	2200-0800	All Day
		Mon-Fri		Mon-Fri		Mon-Fri		Sat-Sun
Local
(<~20mi)	3.95		1.38		1.38		1.00

National
(>~20mi)	6.58		2.40		1.66		1.66

GSM1800
Mobile		27.21		15.20		15.20		7.51

GSM900
Mobile		30.55		16.81		16.81		9.01

(All prices in pennies and inclusive of 17.5% tax. 

As you can see, the cost difference between a long-distance call, and
a mobile call is quite significant -- of the order of 40c. It seems
that they're not passing all of this cost onto you, lucky you. It's
still quite possible that you can call a UK mobile from the US for
less than it is to call the same mobile from the UK.

------------------------------

From: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au (David Clayton)
Subject: Re: International Calls to Cellular = Big $$$
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:25:48 GMT
Organization: Customer of Connect.com.au Pty. Ltd.
Reply-To: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au


Admin <Antilles@AnteLink.com> contributed the following:

> Perhaps list members in those countries (or US carrier "insiders") can
> comment on what the price difference per minute **really** is with
> their country and/or whether this is the latest carrier
> "inflate-the-bill" technique.

> Countries that appear on the rate sheet which have "cellular" as well
> as "regular" rates are: Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Brazil,
> Columbia, Ecuador, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Israel, Italy, Japan,
> Netherlands, New Zealand, Singapore, Sweden, Switzerland and the U.K.
> (I have no doubt that this list will grow.  Programming for resellers
> will be a nightmare for sure.)
 
In Australia I know the interconnect costs the mobile network providers
charge is pretty high, (BTW the mobile phone owner does not pay for
incoming calls, all the charges are paid by the caller).

Calls to a mobile phone next to you can cost more in Australia than a
call overseas!.

I can only imagine that the US networks have stopped "hiding" the
difference in the costs of calls to the different networks and are now
reflecting the relative costs in their pricing structures.


Regards, 

David Clayton, e-mail: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

Dilbert's words of wisdom #18: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

------------------------------

From: Andrew Green <acg@datalogics.com>
Subject: Re: Satellite GPS Can Locate Wireless Phones Within 15 Feet
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:59:16 -0500


Bill Newkirk <wnewkirk@iu.net> writes:

> Bud Couch wrote in message:

>> By the simple fact of carrying a cell phone, your personal
>> location can be determined.

>> But from a political policy point of view it is negligent,
>> at best, and criminal at worst.

> Probably could track 'em by noticing the discontinuity in location
> between the time it "disappeared" and the time it appeared again.

On one of the several occasions (sigh) when an Ameritech cellphone of
mine was cloned, the service rep was able to determine from calling
logs exactly when that occurred by the huge discrepancy in distance
between two calls made seven minutes apart, supposedly from the same
phone but from opposite ends of Chicago. Unfortunately this was _not_
detected automatically by the system, only when I called in two or
three weeks later to complain about the bill. Had it been flagged at
the time it first occurred, a simple phone call from them to me (at my
home number, perhaps, which they have in the records) could have shut
down the scam long before all the calls were racked up, or at least it
would have enabled them to do their own investigation while the calls
were occurring, something they obviously did not do.

What makes it doubly annoying is that my nicely-itemized multi-page
bill listed every phone number called by those con artists (some many
times, some obviously a pager number), yet I seriously doubt there was
any followup on these losers. I've often wondered about some creative
revenge to exact on them myself.

> Leonard Erickson wrote in message:

>> And in both his scenario and yours, I can just stick the phone inside
>> my lunchbox, which *just happens* to be all metal and form a nice
>> Faraday cage when closed. Heck, just wrapping it in alumium foil may
>> work.

Some years ago there was a very pleasant older man who worked at the
commuter parking lot on Kingsbury Street at Erie Street. He was very
articulate and sounded well-educated. After greeting him every morning
and evening for some time, I finally noticed that he always wore a
hat, under which a sturdy layer of tin foil was visible. Obviously he
was ahead of his time.  :-)


Andrew C. Green             (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.            email: acg@datalogics.com
101 N. Wacker, Ste. 1800    http://www.datalogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301     Fax: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: msimpson@uky.edu (Matt Simpson)
Subject: Re: SLC and Power Failure
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:52:39 -0400
Organization: University of Kentucky Computing Center


In article <telecom19.204.9@telecom-digest.org>, johnl@iecc.com (John R.
Levine) wrote:

> My local rural telco still uses only
> SLC-24, because they can be powered from the CO, but customers don't
> like them because the voltage on the line is only about 24V which
> makes a lot of marginal phones and answering machines fail.  The
> engineer tells me that he's not eager to go to a plan that might
> require driving around on icy, snowy roads, moving generators from one
> SLC to another.

I'm a BellSouth customer, and they use some kind of SLC units out here
in the boonies. I'm not sure exactly what model they are, but they do
rely on external power. A few years ago, we had a major ice storm that
took out power lines all over the county. My phone kept working for a
couple of days after the power failed, but then it quit. I never
talked to any phone company folks to find out exactly what happened,
but I assumed the batteries on the SLC died. After another couple of
days, phone service returned, but my power wasn't restored for another
couple of days after that. I never knew for sure whether the electric
co-op got power back to the SLC box (about a mile away) before they
got it to me, or whether BellSouth hauled a generator out there and
recharged it.


Matt Simpson  - Paris, KY
<mailto:msimpson@uky.edu>     <http://rivendell.cc.uky.edu/>

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #212
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Mon Jul 12 15:19:09 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA15029;
	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:19:09 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:19:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907121919.PAA15029@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #213

TELECOM Digest     Mon, 12 Jul 99 15:19:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 213

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts (Fred Goodwin)
    Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts (Ed Ellers)
    Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts (John R. Levine)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (David Clayton)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Jack Perdue)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Jack Hamilton)
    Re: FCC Extra Line Charge (Harris)
    Re: FCC Extra Line Charge (Randy Hayes)
    Re: Jurassic Telecommunications Part I (Donald E. Kimberlin)
    Re: *67 and *71 (Joseph Singer)
    Re: Hazards of the Young and Mobile (Jack Dominey)
    Re: Lower-Priced Always-on DSL (Jonathon C. McLendon)
    1-800-COLLECT Diverted by Payphones? (Causey Rare Coins)
    Star Trek (was Re: Satellites...Locate... Within 15 Feet) (Danny Burstein)
    Let Your Phone Collectors Know About This Gem (John Cropper)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Goodwin <goodwin@tri.sbc.com>
Subject: Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:42:40 -0500


johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) wrote in <telecom19.208.10@telecom
-digest.org>: 

> The last time I checked, there was no minimum threshold.  Using one
> fact from someone else's database would set you afoul of this
> ill-considered and probably unconstitutional bill.

That's not how I read the clear language of the bill:

    Nothing in this chapter shall prevent the extraction or use of an
    individual item of information, or other insubstantial part of a
    collection of information, in itself.  An individual item of
    information, shall not itself be considered a substantial part of a
    collection of information ... 

I don't see how it can be any clearer.

tls@rek.tjls.com (Thor Lancelot Simon) wrote in <telecom19.209.10@telecom
-digest.org>: 

> If they get any of the information from anyone else's site -- any of
> it -- as I read the bill they infringe.  That's a crock.

If that were true, you'd be right:

    ... no person shall be restricted from extracting or using
    information for nonprofit educational, scientific, or research
    purposes in a manner that does not harm directly the actual 
    market for the product or service ... 

    ... an individual act of use or extraction of information done 
    for the purpose of illustration, explanation, example, comment,
    criticism, teaching, research, or analysis, in an amount appro-
    priate and customary for that purpose, is not a violation of 
    this chapter ... 

    Nothing in this chapter shall prevent the extraction or use of 
    an individual item of information, or other insubstantial part 
    of a collection of information, in itself.  An individual item 
    of information, shall not itself be considered a substantial  
    part of a collection of information ...


Fred Goodwin, CMA 
Associate Director -- Technology Program Management
SBC Technology Resources, Inc.
9505 Arboretum, 9th Floor, Austin, TX 78759
fgoodwin@tri.sbc.com
(512) 372-5921
(512) 372-5991 fax

------------------------------

From: Ed Ellers <ed_ellers@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 04:13:27 -0400


John R. Levine (johnl@iecc.com) wrote:

> In Amazon's case, they and every other on-line bookstore create
> their catalog using data from Books in Print and other collections of
> books and publishers."

As best I can tell Amazon.com is using the Library of Congress Card
Catalog, since they also accept requests for out-of-print books (which
they will attempt to fill through a network of dealers in rare books).
I know of at least one book in their database (from an author I know
personally) that has never been *in* print -- the publisher canceled
it before publication -- and Amazon.com apparently has gotten a few
requests for that nonexistent book!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:16:30 EDT
From: John R Levine <johnl@iecc.com>
Subject: Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts


> attempt to fill through a network of dealers in rare books).  I know
> of at least one book in their database (from an author I know
> personally) that has never been *in* print -- the publisher canceled
> it before publication -- and Amazon.com apparently has gotten a few
> requests for that nonexistent book!

They surely use multiple sources.  Books in Print has lots of books
that were never published, since the BIP entries are sent in by
publishers about six months before anticipated publication and if the
book doesn't happen, it's never removed.  I believe the L of C only
catalogs books they physically receive for copyright registration, so
they're far less likely to have books that don't exist.

For a ghost book of mine, visit:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/020135456X


Regards,

John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://iecc.com/johnl, Sewer Commissioner
Finger for PGP key, f'print = 3A 5B D0 3F D9 A0 6A A4  2D AC 1E 9E A6 36 A3 47 

------------------------------

From: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au (David Clayton)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:25:47 GMT
Organization: Customer of Connect.com.au Pty. Ltd.
Reply-To: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au


Johnnie Leung <jsleung@telecom-digest.zzn.com> contributed the
following:

> Linc Madison wrote in message:

>> Visa, MasterCard, and Discover all now use this system.  I don't know
>> about American Express, as I no longer have an AmEx card, but I would
>> be surprised if they're not doing the same sort of thing.

> American Express cards have the account number embossed on the reverse
> side, but not on the signature strip and without any additional
> 'security code'.  However, AmEx cards have a four-digit number, whose
> purpose I have never been able to determine, printed close to the

Last year I paid for two laptop PC's with my Amex card on the 'net and
I got a phone call from the vendor saying Amex (in Australia) wouldn't
process such a large transaction (>$10K) without the four digit
number.


Regards,

David Clayton, e-mail: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

Dilbert's words of wisdom #18: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

------------------------------

From: j-perdue@tamu.edu (Jack Perdue)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:08:25 GMT
Organization: Silicon Slick's Software, Supplies and Support Services


Derek Balling <dredd@megacity.org> wrote:

>> Returning to the original definitions would be good:

>>  .ORG - owned by organizations/not for profit
>>  .NET - owned by network operators
>>  .COM - owned by commercial entities/for profit/misc

> Can you show me where this was "originally defined"? .ORG has always been 
> the "misc" category, and nowhere that I can find (in a true "definition" 
> has it ever been reserved for not-for-profit. (Many have made that claim, 
> thinking ORG=Non-Profit-Organization, but I've yet to find anything 
> resembling an official document to that effect).

Hmmm ... RFC 1591 comes close, but you have a point.  To quote the two
pertinent sections:

   COM - This domain is intended for commercial entities, that is
         companies.  This domain has grown very large and there is
         concern about the administrative load and system performance if
         the current growth pattern is continued.  Consideration is
         being taken to subdivide the COM domain and only allow future
         commercial registrations in the subdomains.

   ORG - This domain is intended as the miscellaneous TLD for
         organizations that didn't fit anywhere else.  Some non-
         government organizations may fit here.

It might be argued that if an organization is out to make money, it
should be labeled as a company and as such placed in the .COM TLD.  As
such, only those that are non-profit would fall into .ORG.

I can't think of a way an organization being profitable without the
IRS considering them a company.  Perhaps, some churches, but I think
some would argue whether churches actually accrue "profits".

Perhaps readers of the digest can suggest a profitable organization
that isn't a company.

Network Solutions has the following to say:

  ORG  The top level domain designated for miscellaneous entities 
       that do not fit under any of the other top level domains. 
       Typically used for non-profit organizations. 
       One of the worldwide top level domains.

They seem to hedge by saying "Typically", so I would guess that there
might be some for-profits in the .ORG TLD.

Anyone know who they might be?


jack
j-perdue@tamu.edu

------------------------------

From: jfh@acm.org (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 05:48:28 GMT
Organization: Copyright (c) 1999 by Jack Hamilton
Reply-To: jfh@acm.org


Derek Balling <dredd@megacity.org> wrote:

> All this talk of "imprinting" confuses me ... when was the last time
> your card actually got imprinted? The last time it happened to me was
> when the local gas station's modem line was done, so the very-confused
> clerk had to manually validate each charge using the old imprinter
> most of us know and love.

Earlier today, at a national discount chain store.  They did the
approval electronically, but made an imprint of the card on the back of
their copy of the receipt.  

Last week, I wanted to buy groceries at a locally-owned store with my
ATM card, but their line was down.  The clerk swiped the card and
captured the information in their computer, but the charge wasn't run
through until later.  Mr. Balling's gas store must be particularly
old-fashioned.


Jack Hamilton
Broderick, CA 
jfh@acm.org

------------------------------

From: Harris <harris@hsatel.com>
Reply-To: <harris@hsatel.com>
Subject: Re: FCC Extra Line Charge
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:10:08 -0500



Dan Lanciani <ddl@deas.harvard.edu> wrote:

> These little fee increases are appearing at an alarming rate, and the
> spins the LECs put on them are a bit disturbing.  My mother recently
> received the following notice from Bell Atlantic:

> "Beginning January 1, 1999, the Federal Communications Commission
> required Bell Atlantic to define all additional telephone lines at a
> residence as non-primary and subject to a higher FCC Line Charge of
> $6.07 per month, instead of the rate for a primary line of $3.50 a
> month.  (The FCC Line Charge on the first or only line at a location
> remains $3.50 per month.)"

These new fees represent the result of access charge restructure which
was ordered by the FCC.  The LECs are charging the customers more of
the cost of the local loop.  At the same time, an equal amount of
access charges charged to carriers are being reduced.  If the IXC's
passed on the results of their reduced costs the total charged to end
users would not change.  However, what has happened is that IXCs have
failed to reduce their toll rates and in fact have even passed through
directly to the customers other rebalancing items.  This is why the
stock of AT&T, MCI/WorldCom, and Sprint have done so well lately.


John
Voice 918.496.1444    Fax 918.496.7733
Wireless 918.693.5798  Email harris@hsatel.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:12:57 -0500
From: Randy Hayes <Randal.Hayes@uni.edu>
Subject: Re: FCC Extra Line Charge


Don Lanciani asked if the FCC really had required a new definition of
non-primary lines ...

The FCC's access charge rules set higher price caps for the SLC and
PICC charges on non-primary residential and multi-line business lines,
but originally did not set clear rules on how these lines are
determined.

Thus, the FCC issued a "clarification" early this year defining
primary and non-primary lines to promote uniformity in assessing the
charges.  This clarification has stirred-up the issue, as the FCC now
determines primary and non-primary by address/location (to keep people
from avoiding the higher access charges by putting additional lines in
someone else's name, etc.) which can cause problems as well.
Universities using Centrex service in dormatories with more than one
telephone per room (two students in the room ... two telephones) are
finding they will be paying $$$ more in access fees due to the
clarification.

A number of groups have challenged the FCC's clarification of primary
and non-primary lines, but the success of such a challenge is
questionable.

Unfortunately, when Congress enacted the Telecom Act of 1996 and the FCC
began implementing it, the intention with Access Charge Reform was to
make the changes revenue-neutral for the LECS and carriers, which got
misinterpreted to mean revenue-neutral or even lower-costs for the
consumers. All too often Congress and the FCC point to lower long
distance rates and claim costs are going down, without adding-in the
additional fees and surcharges we are now paying, which often result in
bottom-line costs equal-to or higher-than pre-Telecom Act costs.

While it is true price caps do not mean the LECs and carriers must
charge these fees, they are simply playing the shell-game set-up by the
FCC. With the predatory nature of telcos as evidenced by their
historical record, they're following their natural instincts. It's just
too bad Congress and the FCC either didn't know about the tendancy for
these companies to act this way or they didn't care (as long as the PAC
money and other favors flowed ...)


Randy Hayes
randal.hayes@uni.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:21:10 -0400
From: Donald E. Kimberlin <dkimberlin@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Jurassic Telecommunications Part I


Mark Brader wrote:

> Donald Kimberlin writes:

>> ... Messages from Sayville became readable. One of them was a copy of
>> the infamous 'Zimmerman letter', in which the German Foreign Minister
>> encouraged Mexico to attack the United States, to divert attention
>> from the European war. The final straw was the message on May 7, 1915
>> telling German submarine U-39 to 'get Lucy', ordering the sinking of
>> the passenger ship Lusitania.

> Considering that the Zimmerman telegram was sent in January 1917 and
> the US entered the war in April 1917, it seems fair to state that
> nothing to do with the Lusitania could have been "the final straw".

Absolutely correct, and I stand thoroughly chastised for getting the
history reversed in my rush to tell the technology story.  Too bad it
seems to have caused the reaction of tossing the baby out with the
bath water.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 04:37:59 -0700
From: Joseph Singer <dov@oz.net>
Subject: Re: *67 and *71


levinjb@gte.net (Joel B Levin) wrote:

>> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Actually, no Casey, you do not have
>> to pause; you can plow straight through it in my experience ...

> This is switch dependent.  Most places I have tried this, the switch
> echoes a stutter dial tone to acknowledge the *70 and doesn't listen
> till after that.  These switches drop the first two or three digits of
> the number if you don't pause.

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: If the switch is not listening when it
> is sending stutter dialtone, how do people who have voicemail with
> stutter dialtone as the message-waiting indicator ever get to make
> any calls? The stutter dialtone never goes away for them if there is
> a message in their box does it? When I have had telco voicemail in
> the past, the stutter dialtone did not just stay there a couple
> seconds and go away, it just kept on stuttering as long as I sat there
> listening to it. Once I no longer had 'new messages' I no longer got
> stutter dial tone. 

As was mentioned this appears to be switch dependant and how the
switch is programmed.  On Lucent/WECO 1A and 5E switches you can dial
straight through the stutter dial tone.  On Nortel DMS-100 switches
you must wait for the stutter dial tone to end before you dial.  This
is true not just with message waiting alert, but also with other
"CLASS" services such as call forwarding, etc.  I've been told that
the default on the DMS-100 switch is to make you wait for steady dial
tone before you can dial, but that the software can be programmed so
that you do not have to wait.  Also, in regards to dialing with the
stutter dial tone for messages waiting you get about 10 beeps or so
and then get steady dial tone.  This presents a problem if you are
trying to dial out with a modem using standard settings as the modem
doesn't like to see the stutter tone.  I believe waiting or not is all
dependent on which switch your CO has.


Joseph Singer Seattle, Washington USA <mailto:dov@oz.net>
<http://welcome.to/dov> <http://wwp.mirabilis.com/460262> [ICQ pgr] +1
206 405 2052 [msg] +1 707 516 0561 [FAX] Seattle, Washington USA

------------------------------

From: look@my.sig (Jack Dominey)
Subject: Re: Hazards of the Young and Mobile
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:51:56 GMT
Organization: The Maynard G. Krebs Memorial Work(!?)station
Reply-To: look@my.sig


In <telecom19.207.6@telecom-digest.org>, pete-weiss@psu.edu (Pete
Weiss) wrote:

> On Fri, 9 Jul 1999 01:20:23 -0400, Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
> wrote:

>> Their results [33] suggest
>> a correlation between cell-phone emissions and brain tumors and DNA
>> breakage in rats. 

> I was unaware that they had cell-phones small enough for rats to use ;-)

Carefully note the wording.  The actual testing was done, for well
known reasons, on lawyers.


Jack Dominey                 "Apparently I'm insane.
domineys(at)mindspring.com       But I'm one of the happy kinds!"

------------------------------

From: Jonathon C McLendon <mclejc@aur.alcatel.com>
Subject: Re: Lower-Priced Always-on DSL
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:49:06 EDT
Reply To: mclejc@aur.alcatel.com
Organization: Alcatel Network Systems - ADSL Engineering


Although Alcatel (my employer) does not sell DSL equipment to US West,
I must write to correct some mis-impressions left by a previous
posting by Paul Robinson, to wit:

US West's DSL MegaBit Deluxe offering ($29.95 + ISP charges) is always
on.  There is no dialup.  US West's DSL offering allows one to use the
telephone for voice calls concurrently with the DSL connection;
Flashcom's DSL requires a separate line to carry DSL (this is due to
regulatory restrictions, not technical issues).

More information on US West's offering is at: 
http://www.uswest.com/products/data/dsl/fast_facts.html


John McLendon - V:919.850.5367 F:919.850.6670 
Alcatel USA  - DSL Engineering -            mclejc@
2912 Wake Forest Rd. Raleigh, NC 27609	aur.alcatel.com

"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler."
Albert Einstein

------------------------------

From: Causey Rare Coins <causeys@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: 1-800-COLLECT Diverted by Payphones?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:33:26 -0500
Organization: Netcom


I used 1-800-COLLECT from two privately owned pay phones in the Fort
Worth, TX area. One time the number answered "Telecom USA" and the
other one answered "Pilgrim Telephone" What's going on? How can these
guys divert their phone number somewhere else?


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: That definitly should be reported. PAT]

------------------------------

From: dannyb@panix.com (Danny Burstein)
Subject: Star Trek (was Re: Satellites ... locate ... Within 15 Feet)
Date: 12 Jul 1999 07:24:04 -0400
Organization: "mostly unorganized"


In <telecom19.211.1@telecom-digest.org> Bill Newkirk <wnewkirk@iu.net>
writes:

> Isn't this what the crew in Star Trek has with their "badges"? if they
> have their comm-badge with 'em, they can be located OR selectively
> called by the ship or others in the away team?

> The folks in the Federation don't seem to mind having a universal
> locator/pager/telephone they wear just about 100% of the time.

Except that the crew aboard the Enterprise, as well as most of the
other folk we see, are members of Starfleet, and are part of the
military. This is a big difference from being regular civilians, and
it's well established, even today, that a member of the armed forces
gives up many civil liberties.

I'm more concerned over the cavalier way they seem to have access to
everyone's, whether military or civilian, personal and medical
records.


Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
		     dannyb@panix.com 
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

------------------------------

Reply-To: John Cropper <john@areacode-info.com>
From: John Cropper <john@areacode-info.com>
Subject: Let Your Phone Collectors Know About This Gem
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:18:57 -0400
Organization: Areacode-info.com


Pat:

Was on eBay early this AM and discovered this little gem:

Old Western Electric Oval Base Telephone - Item #129128458

I'm not a buff, but I do know that some of your readers collect
equipment and might be interested in this. Auction is up very late in
the day 7/15/99, but the seller has a reserve price on the item (so
any interested parties might want to contact the seller prior to
bidding to see what kind of price he is expecting).

If nothing else, at least you have another neat picture for the
archives.


John

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #213
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Mon Jul 12 20:11:10 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA28249;
	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:11:10 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:11:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907130011.UAA28249@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #214

TELECOM Digest     Mon, 12 Jul 99 20:11:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 214

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    So You Thought There Was Enough Fraud Already? (TELECOM Digest Editor)
    Re: *67 and *71 (Al Varney)
    Re: 1-800-COLLECT Diverted by Payphones? (Joel B. Levin)
    Re: SLC and Power Failure (Dale Farmer)
    Re: Satellite GPS Can Locate Wireless Phones Within 15 Feet (Dale Farmer)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (James Bellaire)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (John B. Hines)
    555 Reclamation (Judith Oppenheimer)
    Re: Rotary Dial Telephone (Tony Pelliccio)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:05:12 EDT
From: TELECOM Digest Editor <ptownson@telecom-digest.org>
Subject: So You Thought There Was Enough Fraud Already?


Check out this report I found the other day while surfing the World
Wide Shopping Mall -- err -- Web.

Just imagine! Someone visits a sex site in the Netherlands, and pays
for it charging the call to your phone bill through a company in
Hong Kong.  

They say this will eliminate 'security concerns about sending your
credit card over the internet' ... I wonder if new concerns may arise
as a result.


PAT

                      =======================

                Internet Firm Tackles Credit Card Fears
                            By Donny Kwok

HONG KONG (Reuters) - On-line shoppers worried about sending their
credit card details over the Internet will be able to charge web
purchases to their telephone bill instead if software from a Hong Kong
company takes off.

New Media Corp said Friday, (July 2) it aims to launch its NetCharger
product in 40 countries over the next three months, aiming to
eliminate the security concerns associated with sending credit card
numbers over the Internet.

The product is aimed mainly at the emerging market for buying
``content'' from web sites, specifically small charges for such items
as downloads of software, music, games or financial information.

``If you look at the speed of growth of the Internet outside the
United States, we feel that we have got a really good global billing
product,'' New Media Director Andrew Wilson told Reuters in a
telephone interview.

``Our intention is to be worldwide, to be actually in at least 40
countries within the next three months.''

Hong Kong-listed Essential Enterprises Co Ltd, a business club and
investment company, is believed to be in talks to buy a stake in New
Media, according to market sources. Trading in Essential shares was
suspended Friday pending a statement regarding the possible
acquisition of a controlling stake in a telecommunications and
Internet firm.

Wilson declined to comment on the market speculation.

On the billing product, he said it was launched last December in
Italy, parts of the United States and a handful of other countries,
and is ready for a broader launch.

New Media has invested about US$500,000 in developing the NetCharger
software, and is already turning a profit, Wilson said. The company
would have to invest more to support the product as traffic grows, he
added.

Revenue per month has grown from zero to US$800,000 this year, he said.

``It is growing very rapidly every month. We haven't hit all the major
markets yet. So we believe that our earnings have just begun.''

NetCharger currently generates about 10 percent of the company's
overall revenue, but will quickly become the company's growth engine.

Japan is expected to be the company's biggest market in Asia, while
the United States and Germany are also viewed as major markets for
NetCharger.

``What we focused on particularly was the market for pay content and
the synergy between billing for pay content on the Internet and our
existing network,'' he added.

``We have not launched it in Hong Kong yet but we are planning to do
so. We will want to make the service available in China where the
credit card penetration is not that high,'' he said.

------------------------------

From: varney@ihgp2.ih.lucent.com (Al Varney)
Subject: Re: *67 and *71
Date: 12 Jul 1999 19:52:15 GMT
Organization: Lucent Technologies, Naperville, IL
Reply-To: varney@lucent.com


In article <telecom19.213.10@telecom-digest.org>, Joseph Singer
<dov@oz.net> wrote:

> levinjb@gte.net (Joel B Levin) wrote:

>>> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Actually, no Casey, you do not have
>>> to pause; you can plow straight through it in my experience ...

>> This is switch dependent.  Most places I have tried this, the switch
>> echoes a stutter dial tone to acknowledge the *70 and doesn't listen
>> till after that.  These switches drop the first two or three digits of
>> the number if you don't pause.

> As was mentioned this appears to be switch dependant and how the
> switch is programmed.  On Lucent/WECO 1A and 5E switches you can dial
> straight through the stutter dial tone.  On Nortel DMS-100 switches
> you must wait for the stutter dial tone to end before you dial.  This
> is true not just with message waiting alert, but also with other
> "CLASS" services such as call forwarding, etc.  I've been told that
> the default on the DMS-100 switch is to make you wait for steady dial
> tone before you can dial, but that the software can be programmed so
> that you do not have to wait.

   I noted this option in a TELECOM Digest article on 9 Dec 1997 with
subject "Re: Help with a DMS switch, stutter dialtone".  Brief recap:

Linc Madison <Telecom@LincMad.NOSPAM> wrote (in the 1997 article):

> I'm sorry if I sound annoyed -- I am, but mostly at the Northern Telecom
> engineers for designing this as an option instead of simply designing the
> thing to always allow dialing through, and even moreso at the techs at
> Pacific Bell for deciding to use as the default a setting that should
> never be used under any circumstances.

> There simply is no reason to discard digits dialed through the stutter.
> No reason whatsoever.

   Much as I might enjoy "roasting" Nortel engineers when I run into
them, I feel "No reason whatsoever" is too harsh.  They are doing just
what Bellcore says in TR-391 and other CLASS requirements -- offering
"confirmation tone" or not is an option of the TELCo.  And, unfortunately, 
Bellcore specifies only THREE tones (in GR-506 LSSGR) that receive
digits and stop the tone.  These are Dial Tone, Recall Dial Tone and
Message Waiting Tone.  Confirmation Tone does not.

   Definitions:
       Recall Dial Tone is 3 bursts of 350/440 Hz followed by
             steady dial tone.
       Confirmation Tone is 3 bursts of 350/440 Hz (end of tone)

   Now Bellcore says (in TR-NWT-000391) Issue 3, September 1992:

     "3.1.1.2 Per-Call CIDB Features

 Per-call CIDB features allow callers to dial a feature access code
before dialing a complete telephone number to change the value of a
presentation status for that call.

      (R)-03 The originating SPCS shall recognize when a caller
      enters a valid per-call CIDB feature access code and shall
      return recall dial tone. It shall be a BCC option to return
      a confirmation tone followed by recall dial tone.

 Upon receipt of the recall dial tone, the caller enters the telephone
 number of the party that is being called."

   So, it's obvious that one option must be to offer Confirmation Tone
(which DOESN'T accept digits).

   Whether the default (or lowest cost) option should be NO
CONFIRMATION TONE is something you could debate.  But there IS A
REASON for the behavior.  Mostly it's Bellcore not knowing what
"Recall Dial Tone" does.


Al Varney - just my opinion

------------------------------

From: levinjb@gte.net (Joel B Levin)
Subject: Re: 1-800-COLLECT Diverted by Payphones?
Organization: On the desert
Reply-To: levinjb@gte.net
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:02:32 GMT


In <telecom19.213.13@telecom-digest.org>, Causey Rare Coins
<causeys@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> I used 1-800-COLLECT from two privately owned pay phones in the Fort
> Worth, TX area. One time the number answered "Telecom USA" and the
> other one answered "Pilgrim Telephone" What's going on? How can these
> guys divert their phone number somewhere else?

I've never tried that services, but isn't Telecom USA (who run 1010321
and 10110220) also MCI, which runs 1-800-COLLECT?


JBL


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: But how did Pilgrim get mixed up in it?
They're a bunch of cheats offering overpriced service on COCOTS.   PAT]

------------------------------

From: Dale Farmer <dale@cybercom.net>
Subject: Re: SLC and Power Failure
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:10:42 -0400
Organization: Cable slingers and toy users
Reply-To: dale@cybercom.net


Matt Simpson wrote:

> In article <telecom19.204.9@telecom-digest.org>, johnl@iecc.com (John R.
> Levine) wrote:

>> My local rural telco still uses only
>> SLC-24, because they can be powered from the CO, but customers don't
>> like them because the voltage on the line is only about 24V which
>> makes a lot of marginal phones and answering machines fail.  The
>> engineer tells me that he's not eager to go to a plan that might
>> require driving around on icy, snowy roads, moving generators from one
>> SLC to another.

> I'm a BellSouth customer, and they use some kind of SLC units out here
> in the boonies. I'm not sure exactly what model they are, but they do
> rely on external power. A few years ago, we had a major ice storm that
> took out power lines all over the county. My phone kept working for a
> couple of days after the power failed, but then it quit. I never
> talked to any phone company folks to find out exactly what happened,
> but I assumed the batteries on the SLC died. After another couple of
> days, phone service returned, but my power wasn't restored for another
> couple of days after that. I never knew for sure whether the electric
> co-op got power back to the SLC box (about a mile away) before they
> got it to me, or whether BellSouth hauled a generator out there and
> recharged it.

If you look at the cabinet the SLC is located, there will be a plug 
on the outside that a generator can be plugged into.  A couple years 
ago, here in Massachusetts, we had a bad ice storm that took out 
much of Eastern Mass power-wise for many days.  NETel had hundreds of 
portable generators that they ran around from SLC to SLC to charge 
the batteries back up. (Generally about one tank of gas was good 
for a full charge.) The generators got stolen by local homeowners 
at a tremendous rate, once the local stores ran out.  I heard that 
they also had a problem with some of the CO's where the emergency 
generators were not quite big enough anymore, but that was just 
a rumor.  


 --Dale

------------------------------

From: Dale Farmer <dale@cybercom.net>
Subject: Re: Satellite GPS Can Locate Wireless Phones Within 15 Feet
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:15:59 -0400
Organization: Cable slingers and toy users
Reply-To: dale@cybercom.net


Bill Newkirk wrote:

> Isn't this what the crew in Star Trek has with their "badges"? if they
> have their comm-badge with 'em, they can be located OR selectively
> called by the ship or others in the away team?

> The folks in the Federation don't seem to mind having a universal
> locator/pager/telephone they wear just about 100% of the time.

> So it must certainly be just fine in the future ... and the future
> must be like star trek, right?

To be a bit pedantic, the Star Trek communicators are worn by the
members of starfleet, a military organization.  The military person
works under a very different set of constraints and functions than a
civilian.  So even avoiding your tongue in cheek bit, the analogy does
not hold up.


 --Dale

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:08:00 -0500
From: James Bellaire <bellaire@tk.com>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce


At 06:33 PM 7/11/99 -0400, TELECOM Digest Editor noted:

> I would not, as you suggest I claimed, require anyone to move from
> one place to another. I would just advise everyone that as of some
> date in the future, allowing time for everyone as needed, that
> certain rules would begin to be enforced on sites in .com, and
> that those same rules were in effect now regarding new applicants
> for .com names.

The key phrase from your prior post that 'suggested' that to me
was:

> Existing users with a domain name
> in .com who were NOT defined as above i.e. they do not solicit, they
> do not require money or an exchange of cookies in order to visit
> the site, would be invited at their convenience and at their option
> to relocate using whenever possible the same identical domain name
> but in .org or .net or something else.

> If you wish to stay in .com you are welcome to do so,

Ahhh -- the same courtesy I extended to you! :)

> You said in your letter that 'telecom-digest.org can stay', and I
> guess my question to you is, where should it be?

You are fine where you are.  I didn't want you to think that I was
attacking your placement.  TD does not really fit well under .COM,
and .NET might work but only under the lax rules now in place.

 .EDU is restricted to 4 year colleges and universities or higher --
you couldn't have it if you wanted it (except for the fact that your
host fits that category).

As far as charging more for second and third domains, I don't believe
that would be a deterrent.  Just my opinion.


James Bellaire


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Responding only to your comment,
 > TD does not really fit well under .COM and .NET might work but
 > only under the lax rules now in place. 

It is not a matter of 'really fit very well' -- I do not think I
come close to being a .com site. And .com has a sufficiently bad
reputation in so many quarters (so many people simply look at .com
as being the world-wide web and vice-versa) that I would not find
it at all suitable for myself. Yes, some people are stupid in the
way they make associations, but that's not my fault. Yes, the web
is more than a bunch of porno sites and outfits that rip off your
privacy or send viruses out in email. But isn't it too bad that
when someone writing a history report for school on Christopher
Columbus finds a reference to 'christophercolumbus' on a search
engine index and goes there that he gets a porno site instead? I
don't personally care what sites anyone visits; I could care less
where you go to visit, but stuff like this as was noted here
by someone yesterday is just downright misleading and dishonest.
(Was it you, Jim, who mentioned the 'history' web site that was
actually a porno site?)

Isn't it a bit much when I open a chat room on AOL at night with
the theme 'telecommunications topics' and someone asks me a question
and I send them a hyperlink to some file in the archives to have
them respond to me saying, "My parents have told me I should not
click on links that are sent to me because the ones I gotten before
always opened some sex picture in my browser ..."  and could I
please send the file some other way? ... I mean, am I dense and
missing something here? Maybe I should move http://internet-history.org
over to the .com domain; people could click on it thinking they are
going to read transcripts from famous hot-chats on the net over the
past thirty years. It does me absolutely no good at all when someone
screws around with 'Christopher Columbus' in the search engines, and
the .com domain is full of that kind of stuff. 

Another thing I find totally useless is the use of 'www' on the front
of every one of their names. If anyone cares to know, the use of 'www' 
goes back to in the early nineties when file transfers were still
mostly all done by FTP. Those relatively few sites at the time which
were equipped to handle http (or HyperText Transfer Protocol)
generally had it on one machine at their site, and they gave that
particular machine an alias name 'www' in addition to whatever its
name was otherwise as an easy way for people to know which machine at
each site was equipped for the new procedures. Using 'www' as part
of your site name these days is about as stupid as giving someone
your home phone number and then adding the comment, 'by the way, you
can now dial all over the country automatically you know' ... but
still you see millions of them out there giving out their URL as
'www.mypornosite.com' .  I just get too annoyed continuing this
discussion.   PAT] 

------------------------------

From: jhines@enteract.com (John B. Hines)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:57:55 GMT
Organization: US Citizen, disabled with MS, speaking solely for myself.


j-perdue@tamu.edu (Jack Perdue) wrote:

> It might be argued that if an organization is out to make money, it
> should be labeled as a company and as such placed in the .COM TLD.  As
> such, only those that are non-profit would fall into .ORG.

> I can't think of a way an organization being profitable without the
> IRS considering them a company.  Perhaps, some churches, but I think
> some would argue whether churches actually accrue "profits".

> Perhaps readers of the digest can suggest a profitable organization
> that isn't a company.

Industry trade groups? 

For example, http://www.wwpa.org/ the Western Wood
Products Association, that determines standards for lumber milled on the
west coast.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:23:43 -0400
From: Judith Oppenheimer <joppenheimer@icbtollfree.com>
Organization: ICB Toll Free News / WhoSells800.com
Subject: 555 Reclamation


July 13, 1999
ICB Toll Free News Behind the Scenes

The NANPA has informed INC that it intends to start reclamation
procedures for 555 numbers.

"We believe that ILECs are unlawfully delaying activation of 555 to
prevent 555 access by local competitors and potential interexchange
carriers who wish to compete with ILEC Information services or
Directory Assistance, a traditional 555 purpose, until such time as
ILECs themselves are allowed into the interchange (long distance) and
information services businesses (Feb. 8, 2000)."

So states the letter from an independent 555 consultant (also a North
American Numbering Council [NANC] member), to the North American
Numbering Plan Administrator (NANPA) and the INC secretary, Steve
Engelman of MCIWorldcom, in reaction to the NANPA's intention to
reclaim 555 numbers.

Among the complaints, "Not only are [interconnection arrangements] not
available, but the ILECs will not yet even hand off 555 dialed calls to
carriers (CLECs or IXCs) with established Interconnection Agreements."
 ... "any few 555 public consumer tariffs which have been filed have
been unreasonably priced and structured to block not only competitors
to the ILEC's own 555 services, but structured to obstruct portability, 
interconnection with competitive carriers (CLECs) and/or IXCs, and 
competitive services (i.e. DA)" ... " any ILEC implementation has been
designed to obstruct the business arrangements to carry our numbers'
traffic over an interexchange and/or CLEC carrier of our choice, even
a hand-off of calls within a LATA " 

The letter concludes, "... we remain adamant that 555 interconnection
arrangements are not "available" for the purposes of any reclamation
trigger in the 555 Assignment Guidelines."

The immediate outcome is the introduction of a new INC issue, "555
RECLAMATION", 'championed' by MCIWorldcom's Steve Engelman, which
states in part, "The NANPA has informed INC that it intends to start
reclamation procedures for 555 numbers. The INC at INC 43 told NANPA
to hold off on reclamation until it had time to address the issue.
The INC should determine the status of 555 access availability and
based its availability direct NANPA on whether it should proceed with
reclamation of 555 numbers."

The issue will be raised at this week's INC 44 in Toronto.


Judith Oppenheimer 
ICB Toll Free News
http://whosells800.com
ICB Consulting
http://800consulting.com
Moderator, TOLLFREE-L 
http://www.egroups.com/list/tollfree-l/
joppenheimer@icbtollfree.com

------------------------------

From: nospam.tonypo1@nospam.home.com (Tony Pelliccio)
Subject: Re: Rotary Dial Telephone
Organization: Providence Network Partners
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:14:26 GMT


In article <telecom19.202.5@telecom-digest.org>, rsanders@gate.net
says:

> True, COs are generally prepared to run for a week or more with no
> mains power. But those of us in rural America have another
> problem. Our service is provided from the CO to the residence via a
> SLC box. The SLC box has batteries which are good for 24-48
> hours. After that, the SLC goes dead.  And along with it, all the
> phones serviced by the SLC. The local techs tell me they have portable
> generators at the CO to be distributed to the SLCs if such a situation
> happens. Might get interesting, a couple dozen generators sitting at
> lonely rural intersections hummin away in the midst of a small
> population with no electricity.

I've noticed that in some of the more rural SLC's in Rhode Island there 
seem to be exhaust stacks coming out of the little concrete bunker. I'd 
bet they do put generators in sometimes. 


== Tony Pelliccio, KD1S formerly KD1NR
== Trustee WE1RD

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #214
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Tue Jul 13 11:54:19 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA26405;
	Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:54:19 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:54:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907131554.LAA26405@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #215

TELECOM Digest     Tue, 13 Jul 99 11:54:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 215

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Split For 760 Area Code in California (Linc Madison)
    Calling Party Pays - FCC's Real Motivation? (Fred Goldstein)
    Re: 1-800-COLLECT Diverted by Payphones? (John R. Levine)
    Re: 1-800-COLLECT Diverted by Payphones? (Steven J. Sobol)
    Re: 1-800-COLLECT Diverted by Payphones? (Stanley Cline)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Matt Ackeret)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Steven J. Sobol)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (J.F. Mezei)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Linc Madison)
    Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers? (Linc Madison)
    Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts (Steven J. Sobol)
    Re: Lower-Priced Always-on DSL (Paul Robinson)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:12:32 -0700
From: LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com (Linc Madison)
Subject: Split For 760 Area Code in California
Organization: LincMad Consulting


The 760 area code, which covers an incredibly diverse swath of
California, stretching from the suburbs north of San Diego (Oceanside,
Escondido), up the eastern Sierras, almost to Lake Tahoe, will be
splitting in October of next year.

Effective 10/21/2000, the northern San Diego County area will change
to a new code, to be announced, with mandatory date of 04/14/2001.
The rest of 760 (the vast majority of the land area, but well under
half of the telephone lines) will remain unchanged.  760 is expected
to last 14 years, and the new code 6 years, before further relief is
required.

I'm rather surprised at the decision to give the new code to the more
urban part of 760.  In particular, if the region continues its
opposition to overlays, in six years you'll have people who changed
from 213 to 714 to 619 to 760 to (new), and who will be facing yet
another change.

Details are in a press release on the CPUC web site at
<http://www.cpuc.ca.gov>.  There is not yet a map available, nor a
list of specific rate centers or prefixes affected.


** Do not send me unsolicited commercial e-mail spam of any kind **
Linc Madison  *  San Francisco, California  *   Telecom@LincMad-com
URL:< http://www.lincmad.com > * North American Area Codes & Splits
>> NOTE: replies sent to <Telecom@LincMad-com> will be read sooner!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:50:30 -0400
From: Fred Goldstein <fgoldstein@wn.net>
Subject: Calling Party Pays - FCC's Real Motivation?


abuse@verrine.demon.co.uk (Peter Corlett) writes,

> It is quite expensive to call a mobile phone in the UK, as compared to call
> to landlines. Here's a sample of the retail prices for calls that Cable and
> Wireless offer on their UK Call tariff, dated 2/1/99:
>	 	Daytime		Evening		Night		Weekend
 ...
> National
> (>~20mi)	6.58		2.40		1.66		1.66

> GSM1800
> Mobile	27.21		15.20		15.20		7.51

> GSM900
> Mobile	30.55		16.81		16.81		9.01
> (All prices in pennies and inclusive of 17.5% tax. 

The FCC has a proceeding to institute a standard means of calling
party pays cellular in the USA.  Ostensibly, it's because
mobile-party-pays discourages use.  To justify that, they note much
lower cellular use in the USA than in some other countries.

I don't believe it.  Cellular pricing has gotten rather competitive.
The plan I'm on (BAM's Digital Choice; available with various usage
prepays) provides for free incoming first minutes.  Local call to the
caller, no charge to the mobile.  Try that in the UK!

More likely, it's being pushed by the cellcos in order to create new
revenues. CPP allows the non-subscriber to pay outrageous rates, as
shown above in the UK example, while the mobile subscriber pays a much
lower rate (8p?) for outgoing calls.  It's like collect calls and the
like, where the billed party doesn't even know how much they'll get
socked for somebody else's choice of carrier.

There's an open docket at the FCC on this one, so if anybody wants to
file comments, go to www.fcc.gov, then into the electronic comment
filing system. (The docket number is FCC 99-137.)

CPP is potentially useful, IF the rates are held to some reasonable
level AND the numbers are clearly segregated by "NPA" (SAC) or prefix,
so that PBXs can block them.  The FCC's proposed in-band audio warning
is of no use to PBX system operators, who can get dinged for VERY
expensive calls to "local" prefices.  CPP in the rest of the world
always has separate number blocks.

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1999 23:08:23 -0400
From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine)
Subject: Re: 1-800-COLLECT Diverted by Payphones?
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA


>> I used 1-800-COLLECT from two privately owned pay phones in the Fort
>> Worth, TX area. One time the number answered "Telecom USA" and the
>> other one answered "Pilgrim Telephone" [ Telecom USA is  MCI ]

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: But how did Pilgrim get mixed up in it?
> They're a bunch of cheats offering overpriced service on COCOTS.   PAT]

Yeah, that's my old pal Stan Kugell.  I suspect that someone misdialed
COLLECT.  Remember 1-800-OPERATER ?


John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869
johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, 
Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail

------------------------------

From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steven J Sobol)
Subject: Re: 1-800-COLLECT Diverted by Payphones?
Date: 13 Jul 1999 03:18:05 GMT
Organization: North Shore Technologies Corp. 888.480.4NET


On Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:02:32 GMT, levinjb@gte.net allegedly said:

> In <telecom19.213.13@telecom-digest.org>, Causey Rare Coins
> <causeys@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>> I used 1-800-COLLECT from two privately owned pay phones in the Fort
>> Worth, TX area. One time the number answered "Telecom USA" and the
>> other one answered "Pilgrim Telephone" What's going on? How can these
>> guys divert their phone number somewhere else?

> I've never tried that services, but isn't Telecom USA (who run 1010321
> and 10110220) also MCI, which runs 1-800-COLLECT?

10-10-220 is DEFINITELY MCI. I'm rather surprised to hear someone
asserting that 10-10-220 is Telecom USA. I don't think that's correct.

10-10-321 is operated by Telecom USA. I don't know what their
affiliation is, if there is in fact an affiliation with MCI.


North Shore Technologies Corporation http://www.NorthShoreTechnologies.net
We don't just build websites; we build relationships!
815 Superior Ave. #610, Cleveland, OH 44114-2702 216.619.2NET 888.480.4NET
Host of the Forum for Responsible & Ethical E-mail http://www.spamfree.org

------------------------------

From: sc1@roamer1.org (Stanley Cline)
Subject: Re: 1-800-COLLECT Diverted by Payphones?
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:11:06 GMT
Organization: by area code and prefix (NPA-NXX)
Reply-To: sc1@roamer1.org


On Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:33:26 -0500, Causey Rare Coins <causeys@ix.
netcom.com>: 

> I used 1-800-COLLECT from two privately owned pay phones in the Fort
> Worth, TX area. One time the number answered "Telecom USA" and the

MCI owns Telecom*USA (the 10-10-321/10-10-220 folks), as well as
1-800-COLLECT.  For some reason MCI *still* occasionally routes
1010222+0+ and 1-800-COLLECT calls to the Telecom*USA "division",
which charges higher rates than MCI itself for 0+ calls, even after
their doing so was exposed on some news show or another a year or two
ago.

> other one answered "Pilgrim Telephone" What's going on? How can these

aka 1-800-DUCK-MCI.  They have NO connection to MCI.

> guys divert their phone number somewhere else?

With MCI/Telecom*USA, it's probably MCI being screwed up.  With
Pilgrim, my guess is that the *COCOT* did it.

and PAT wrote:

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: That definitly should be reported. PAT]

Yes, most definitely.

SC

------------------------------

From: mattack@area.com (Matt Ackeret)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: 12 Jul 1999 17:31:14 -0700
Organization: Area Systems in Mountain View, CA - http://www.area.com


In article <telecom19.208.9@telecom-digest.org>, the Moderator wrote:

> Amex's main concern and worry was the papers finding out about it
> with a resulting headline saying 'drug addict employed in sensitive
> position at credit card office' and the resulting bad public relations
> or loss of customer confidence. 

Well, there have been many newsmagazine stories, from Michael Moore's
show (with his typical "stealing jobs" slant) to Dateline or one of
the ABC shows, about the prisoners answering phones for mail order
companies.  That should be just as bad as the above, yet it isn't
scaring people away from calling up mail order companies. 


mattack@area.com


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: It is no where near as 'bad' if you
stop and think about it. 'Prisoner' does not automatically equal 'bad'
in many cases, nor does it equal 'good'. 'Prisoner' is another name
for someone who got caught and is being punished with incarceration. 
Quite a few of them committed some minor crime -- I don't excuse it! --
and were dealt a hand of cards in the system which gave them a judge
who responded more harshly with the matter than other judges might have
under similar circumstances. 

Really, prisoners handling telemarketing calls are about the last thing
thing you need to worry about. If *you* had a job like that, there is
always the possibility, if you were so inclined, that you would carry
away with you little scraps of paper with credit card numbers, home
addresses and similar tidbits of information which should have
remained in the computer at work. When you got home, you'd sit down at
your own computer and start playing games with all that data you had
taken away from work. You would get caught eventually, because no
matter how smart you are, there is always someone smarter than you.

When you got caught by your employer's internal auditing staff; walked
out the front door with a little paper bag full of your personal
possessions by a nice man who, on reaching the sidewalk handed you
an envelope with your final paycheck, and told you to never return to
the premises again for any reason, you'd consider yourself to have
gotten off quite lucky; quite lucky indeed. Because your ex-employer
does not wish to have this become a topic of discussion either among
your former co-workers, or god forbid, the media, should you and he
get into a spitting contest, there will be a sort of mutual unspoken
understanding: you go quietly, here is a couple of extra day's
severance pay to tide you over, and if you need a good recommendation
for your next job, we will give it to you. ("Ah yes, mattack, he was
one of our best; how sorry we were to lose him."). Now get your things
out of your desk during the lunch hour when others are away and please
leave quietly. As you contemplate the alternatives involving police,
perhaps time in jail and certainly a humiliating write up in the paper
the next day that all your neighbors, family and former co-workers
would read, you readily accept that escort to the front door. At the
next meeting of senior management and/or board of directors, there
will be a mention that 'we had an incident', or 'there was an employee
who had a problem' or some similar euphemism, and everyone present
will understand the meaning of what was said, and the importance of
saying nothing more about it.

Now let us consider instead of mattack the outstanding citizen who
left his position at the telemarketing firm 'because he wanted a
better job', the prisoner mattack who got arrested for something and
has a couple years in prison. Because his behavior has been good, he
gets a chance to work as a telemarketer. He gets watched and monitored
almost constantly. He has no opportunity to carry away little scraps
of paper with credit card numbers written on them, because he gets
searched upon arriving at his job assignment and upon returning to
his cell. If he is caught doing the slightest thing wrong, he gets
'fired' from that job, and without a job to go to, prisoners stay
in their cells all day. Prisoners who get those jobs generally are
 --*thisclose*-- to release, or transfer to a halfway-house and the
last thing they are going to do is screw up. The telemarketing firm
knows that also; they wish all their employees could be supervised
so closely 24 hours per day. Prisoners don't worry them; the prisoners
are for the most part as honest as anyone else; they just got caught
is all and they have a very good motive to behave at this point. Not
only do they lose their job and source of income but they may very
well find themselves back in front of the sentencing judge a couple
weeks later, where their periodic incarceration (the legal term for
a work release program for inmates) gets revoked and they wind up
staying in prison 24 hours a day instead of just ten or twelve.
Everyone knows how it works, telemarketing firm, prison staff, and
prisoners alike, so no one has any trouble with it except for people
on television shows who like producing sensationalist and out-of-
context stories for general public consumption.

Its mattack the outstanding citizen who worries me. We have no idea
what he is doing all night long at his computer with the information
he stole from work that day. Do you understand my message? When a
financial institution, credit card or telco back office, or other
similar operation which is trusted by the public with personal infor-
mation has an 'incident' or an employee who 'has a problem', they
resolve it quietly and very quickly, much the way if your doctor 
discovers you have a very small cancerous growth, you go under the
knife posthaste before it spreads everywhere. 

But let an outsider get into the same computer that an employee was
tampering with, and of course it becomes a case of 'computer hacker
steals millions of dollars in data and software' with the US Attorney
involved, cheer leaders from the {New York Times} and the company
itself proudly announcing how they cracked open a fraud ring that
'got started in one of those Usenet newsgroups where they talk about
that stuff.'   PAT]

------------------------------

From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steven J Sobol)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: 13 Jul 1999 03:27:15 GMT
Organization: North Shore Technologies Corp. 888.480.4NET


On Mon, 12 Jul 1999 05:48:28 GMT, jfh@acm.org allegedly said:

> Derek Balling <dredd@megacity.org> wrote:

>> All this talk of "imprinting" confuses me ... when was the last time
>> your card actually got imprinted? The last time it happened to me was
>> when the local gas station's modem line was done, so the very-confused
>> clerk had to manually validate each charge using the old imprinter
>> most of us know and love.

> Earlier today, at a national discount chain store.  They did the
> approval electronically, but made an imprint of the card on the back of
> their copy of the receipt.  

This proves that they actually handled the card, that someone gave the
card to them. If you dispute a charge on the basis that you allegedly
didn't authorize it, and the merchant has an imprint and a signature,
that is a huge, huge point in the merchant's favor.

> Last week, I wanted to buy groceries at a locally-owned store with my
> ATM card, but their line was down.  The clerk swiped the card and
> captured the information in their computer, but the charge wasn't run
> through until later.  Mr. Balling's gas store must be particularly
> old-fashioned.

Um ... If they didn't get an approval, they could have been asking for
trouble. If the charge didn't go through later, what were they
planning on doing? Did they have some way to contact you just in case?

And as a matter of fact, I used to work at a gas station, and on the
infrequent occasion when the power went out, I'd just call for
authorization or, if the situation warranted, explain that I couldn't
accept the cards due to technical difficulties (customers don't
generally have a problem with that if you explain it ahead of time and
have a good reason for doing so).

On Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:08:25 GMT, j-perdue@tamu.edu allegedly said:

> They seem to hedge by saying "Typically", so I would guess that there
> might be some for-profits in the .ORG TLD.

> Anyone know who they might be?

Wariat.org used to exist (it's now apk.net) -- used by Cleveland's
first commercial Internet service provider... but the domain was
registered back when it was just a public-access Unix site.

On Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:08:00 -0500, TELECOM Digest Editor noted in
response to bellaire@tk.com:

> can now dial all over the country automatically you know' ... but
> still you see millions of them out there giving out their URL as
> 'www.mypornosite.com' .  I just get too annoyed continuing this
> discussion.   PAT] 

But some ISP's only set up www.xyz.com to resolve to an IP address, and
not xyz.com. Personally, I usually set up both so it isn't necessary to
type the "www".


North Shore Technologies Corporation http://www.NorthShoreTechnologies.net
We don't just build websites; we build relationships!
815 Superior Ave. #610, Cleveland, OH 44114-2702 216.619.2NET 888.480.4NET
Host of the Forum for Responsible & Ethical E-mail http://www.spamfree.org


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Good for you. Better still, fix it so
the 'www' causes it to bounce if someone does try to use it.  I do not
know what you would get by entering http://www.telecom-digest.org
since I have never tried it. Personally, if you do try it, I hope it
makes your browser crash. :)  Did I ever mention I hate 'www' ??

Regards the guy who got his groceries without an approval code, it
depends in large part who was at fault. Saying 'the line was down' is
sort of a generic excuse. If the sales authorization center link was
down at the moment, then to avoid a humongous flood of calls to the
manual authorizers generally a 'floor limit' is established, and
grocery stores tend to have rather high limits; they are not prone
to fraud as say an electronics store would be. If his sale was within
the floor limit *and* the store otherwise met the rules by making him
present an actual card, etc then the credit card issuer will approve
the sale once the link to them becomes operational. The credit
approval will be 'forced'. They have to do this as a matter of merchant
goodwill; no merchant will wait on hold five or ten minutes to get an
approval for twenty dollars. The 'approval code' given to the merchant
will be a number that at some later point the collectors trying to
clear their books will see was a 'forced approval due to overload or
technical problems with the authorizers'. 

The authorizers frequently find out the communications links have gone
bad when all of a sudden every phone in the place starts ringing at
once, each with an angry merchant on the line, 'we have tried for ten
minutes and can't reach you through the terminals in our store'. Once
established that there is a problem, the floor limits go into affect. 
Depending on the merchant, some are allowed to 'approve their own
sales' up to the floor limit; others are required to none the less
telephone the authorization center manually, but because the queue of
calls waiting at the center at that point will have usually reached
an extremely high level, the authorizers will rattle off an approval
code with no examination of the account if it is within the floor
limit. In rare instances when the comm links are down and the host
computer itself which the authorizers use is 'sluggish' the backlog
in the queue of holding calls will become so severe the supervisor at
the authorization center may tell the authorizers to 'informally'
raise the floor limit another $25, just in order to keep things moving.
That action remains confidential among the staff however, and in
most cases within a few minutes the original floor limits will be
restored once the phones are under control again or the comm links
are back in service, etc. The credit card issuer has to reach some
sort of balance between preventing every single fraud or delinquency
versus keeping the merchants happy and not inconvenienced.  PAT

------------------------------

From: J.F. Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:57:04 -0400


Nobody mentioned .INT for international organisations, and more
importantly ... <iso country code>

Why won't the USA use the .US domain ? 

If US specific companies/groups/individuals had .US, that would leave
 .COM and ORG to global organisations. It would also make it quite
specific that one is about to "deal" with a web site "based" in the
United States and as such, one then expect to see prices in US
currency. Browsing a site that ends in .CA makes you expect to see
prices in canadian currency etc etc.

Note that some countries such as Australia have further subdivided
their name space.

for instance: WWW.QANTAS.COM.AU (or is it www.qantas.co.au ?)

> Another thing I find totally useless is the use of 'www' on the front
> of every one of their names. If anyone cares to know, the use of 'www'
> goes back to in the early nineties when file transfers were still
> mostly all done by FTP.

A lot more than just FTP. There is also telnet, and all sorts of
proprietary applications that use various ports. There is also IRC etc
etc.

Remember that web browsers handle multiple protocols. So getting a
name such as "ftp.netscape.com" makes it obvious to the user that he
should precede it with "ftp:/ftp.netscape.com" etc etc.


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I believe that '.us' is used by local
and state governments in the USA, while '.gov' is used only by the
federal government.   PAT]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:57:57 -0700
From: LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com (Linc Madison)
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Organization: LincMad Consulting


In article <telecom19.211.6@telecom-digest.org>, anthony@alphageo.com
wrote:

> Rickman <spamgoeshere4@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> But how do you call people if 60% or 80% (I forget which) of the people
>> in CA have you blocked? 

> Is that _really_ the percentage of Californians who use automatic call
> rejection? With 50%+ of all numbers not giving out Caller-ID, I see no
> need for a caller-id box or service, and I can't imagine that many
> people would automatically reject "private/unavailable" calls. I've
> _never_ gotten a message saying my call was rejected, and I have
> automatic no-id.

I don't believe that Anonymous Call Rejection has been tariffed for
offer in California at all, although SBC/Pac Bell certainly wants to
have it yesterday-if-not-sooner.  The 60% to 80% are estimates of the
lines that by default show up as "private."

(If a line defaults to "private," you can override by dialing *82
in order to send Caller ID data.  If a line defaults to sending the
Caller ID, you can override by dialing *67 to send the call as
"private," subject to various caveats PAT has recently mentioned.
*82 means "send the Caller ID data"; *67 means "mark as private.")

An estimated 60% of residential lines are unlisted, and the vast
majority of unlisted lines have elected default blocking.  About
half of listed lines have also elected default blocking.

As a result, it would be rather foolish to have ACR in California.
You might as well just cancel your phone service, because about the
only calls that will get through to you are telemarketers.


** Do not send me unsolicited commercial e-mail spam of any kind **
Linc Madison  *  San Francisco, California  *   Telecom@LincMad-com
URL:< http://www.lincmad.com > * North American Area Codes & Splits
>> NOTE: replies sent to <Telecom@LincMad-com> will be read sooner!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:23:23 -0700
From: LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com (Linc Madison)
Subject: Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers?
Organization: LincMad Consulting


In article <telecom19.211.11@telecom-digest.org>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.chinet.com> wrote:

> Linc Madison <LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com> wrote:

>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.chinet.com> wrote:

>>> I'm not aware that there is an existing privacy right. Wireless
>>> communications take place in the shared public spectrum. Use of a
>>> pager does not convey an exclusive license to a portion of the
>>> spectrum while telemetry is sent.

>>> We have the right to be secure in our person, papers, and
>>> possessions. But we have another right, a natural right to use the
>>> public way. That includes the airwaves. The more rights we grant
>>> individuals to use the public way and exclude everyone else, the more
>>> we infringe upon our own rights.

>> By that logic, law enforcement should be permitted to do a wiretap
>> of any regular telephone line, without a court order, with only the
>> consent of the telco, since it is not necessary to enter the
>> subscriber's premises to do so.  Indeed, if the wiretap could be
>> effected at the point where the telephone wires are crossing the
>> "public way," then your logic would allow for unregulated wiretaps
>> by anyone for any purpose, so long as they did not damage anyone's
>> property.

> You ignore my chief concern, as usual, which is assigning exclusive
> rights to a portion of the radio spectrum. A telephone cable, even
> when in the public way, is still private property. Allowing utilities
> to use the public way does not exclude all other users. You make an
> apples and oranges argument.

No, as usual, you completely misunderstand and misstate my argument.
You said, "But we have another right, a natural right to use the public
way.  That INCLUDES the airwaves."  It also includes the air space above
a public street.  By your logic, it should be perfectly legal for me to
make a wiretap of a telephone line crossing over a public street, so long
as I did it by inductive coupling without any physical damage to the
telephone wire and without interference to the operation of the telephone
circuit.  After all, my doing so is absolutely nothing more than
unfettered use of "the public way."

It is not an "apples and oranges" argument, it is an "apples and
apples" argument.

Quite the contrary -- your argument that we should be given absolute
right to listen to any radio transmission simply because it is "in
the public way," but that it should not be legal to inductively couple
a telephone circuit as it crosses over the same "public way," is
inconsistent.

> Otherwise cell phone users, cordless phone users, and pager users
> should assume someone could be listening and take appropriate steps.

It happens that I agree with you on that point, but I strongly disagree
with the reasoning by which you reach it.


** Do not send me unsolicited commercial e-mail spam of any kind **
Linc Madison  *  San Francisco, California  *   Telecom@LincMad-com
URL:< http://www.lincmad.com > * North American Area Codes & Splits
>> NOTE: replies sent to <Telecom@LincMad-com> will be read sooner!

------------------------------

From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steven J Sobol)
Subject: Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts
Date: 13 Jul 1999 03:20:09 GMT
Organization: North Shore Technologies Corp. 888.480.4NET


On Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:52:40 -0700, dredd@megacity.org allegedly said:

>>> Could someone please explain to me how HR354 makes criminals out of
>>> Amazon and Yahoo?

>> In Yahoo's case, web spidering is enough like trolling through someone
>> else's database to sound alarms.

> That's all well and good except that Yahoo doesn't spider.

My experience is that Yahoo doesn't even look at submissions anymore unless
you pay them lots 'o' dough. :P


***SJS (who doesn't use Yahoo to search anymore, for that reason)


North Shore Technologies Corporation http://www.NorthShoreTechnologies.net
We don't just build websites; we build relationships!
815 Superior Ave. #610, Cleveland, OH 44114-2702 216.619.2NET 888.480.4NET
Host of the Forum for Responsible & Ethical E-mail http://www.spamfree.org


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I do not find that to be true at all.
I have never given Yahoo any money but they list web sites of mine.
Of course it may be now that they have gotten mixed with Geocities
things may change. Geocities never allows you to read anything at all
without an advertisement stuck in front of it. I hope Yahoo does not
turn that way.  PAT]

------------------------------

From: rfc1394a@aol.com (Paul Robinson)
Date: 13 Jul 1999 03:47:21 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Lower-Priced Always-on DSL


> I must write to correct some mis-impressions left by a previous
> posting by Paul Robinson, to wit:

> US West's DSL MegaBit Deluxe offering ($29.95 + ISP charges) is always
> on.  There is no dialup.  US West's DSL offering allows one to use the
> telephone for voice calls concurrently with the DSL connection;

There was no misunderstanding on my part.  This new, dial-up DSL
service is in addition to and separate from US West's always-on DSL
service.  This is a separate offering from standard "always on"
service.


Paul Robinson (Formerly Paul@TDR.COM, TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM among others)

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #215
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Tue Jul 13 12:47:15 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA29192;
	Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:47:15 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:47:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907131647.MAA29192@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #216

TELECOM Digest     Tue, 13 Jul 99 12:47:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 216

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intell (J. Maddaus)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Art Walker)
    Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts (Adam H. Kerman)
    Re: 1-800-COLLECT Diverted by Payphones? (J. Foote)
    Re: National 555 Telephone Exchange (Stan Schwartz)
    Re: *67 and *71 (Linc Madison)
    FCC Cuts Local Number Portability Surcharges (Monty Solomon)
    Seeking History of Cellular Phones (Agus Surono)
    Public Phones Number Listing (peng1234@singnet.com.sg)
    Re: Cell Phones at Gas Stations (Martin McCormick)
    Re: Hazards of the Young and Mobile - Handheld Powers (Linc Madison)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jmaddaus@NO_SPAM.usa.net (John S. Maddaus)
Subject: Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intelligence
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 15:41:44 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Reply-To: jmaddaus@NO_SPAM.usa.net


rfreeman@netaxs.com (Richard Freeman) wrote:

> On Fri, 09 Jul 1999 18:08:22 -0400, J.F. Mezei
> <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:

>> Monty Solomon wrote:

>>>> The SIGINT capabilities of the United States can be signifi-
>>>> cantly compromised by the use of encryption.

>> Does the United States of America *really* believe that it is the only
>> one of the world capable of building encryption systems that cannot be
>> defeated?  Does it really believe that other developped countries
>> don't have good enough education systems to produce scientists capable
>> of generating very strong algorythms?

> This seems like a moot argument to me.  International versions of PGP
> (with full 128bit session keys and 2048 bit RSA keys) are easily
> downloadable over the net.  These can be downloaded from any country
> that does not censor them in some manner.  I can see how making it
> more difficult to obtain advanced crypto (ie the downloaded version of
> Netscape is 56bit) might make it easy for the common citizen deciding
> to engage in a little fraud to make the mistake of not realizing that
> his SSL connection is insecure.  On the other hand, any organization
> like a terrorist one would have the specific goal of having
> clandestine communication, and would download free of charge (and more
> difficult to trace) something like PGP or PGPfone, which is not
> feasible to decrypt with modern technology and which doesn't even cost
> them a cent besides.

This is truly an interesting subject.  When AT&T introduced the TSD
(Telephone Security Device) 3600 in the early '90s, the feds went
nuts, especially when they found out that the early production models
were DES.  The issue was strictly voice, data was a different story
and one which took a back seat, in other words they didn't care.

Now, AT&T Federal Systems went into overtime building these things at
the same time that much pressure was being placed at the CEO (Allen)
level directly by Reno to adopt Clipper.  Orders from the top, so
Clipper would go in those not already installed with DES or one of
three other proprietary algorithms available.  The organization that
built the STU-IIIs was now going commercial and adopted Clipper. The
agreement called for AT&T to cease production of DES based 3600s
immediately and that the government would buy any existing 3600s with
DES.  They were more than a bit surprised to find out that well over
1,000 had been built (retail cost was over a $1K initially I believe).
In addition, they would pay AT&T to convert the existing DES units (up
front if my memory serves me) to Clipper, again not a cheap proposition.

The feds came out to the factory in NC to physically count the number
that existed  and what stage of completion they were in (thinking they
had agreed to purchase a handful) and went back with wallets empty and
shaking heads.  Not happy campers.  

Meanwhile, some enterprising marketing types embarked upon a try one
for 30 days free trial.  Guess who took them up on that (and what do
you do with just one?).  Guess how many of the nearly 1,000 units ever
came back?  Mad scramble to get them all back and convert them to
Clipper.

Remember, we are still talking voice.  To get over the export issues
for data encryption, AT&T Federal Systems purchased a Swiss company
called Gretag, developer of DES and triple-DES based bulk encryptors
used by the European banking community. They merely imported them into
the U.S. since they already were embedded in and built overseas.
Niche market at the most.   

Gretag also had an algorithm that AT&T was going to use in the TSDs.
Veto, too strong.  However, the algorithm in the TSDs sold to
corporations varied depending upon whether the company was a U.S.
owned or foreign owned multi-national company.  U.S companies got
stronger proprietary algorithms.

Now enter VOIP and the web, PGP, etc.  No one that I know of back then
had a clue that voice might propagate over anything other than the
telephone on the desk, nor that "data" would be such a widely used
means of "communications" within several years.  Hence, back burner
encrypted data reality has made a moot point of much of the export
issue.  Makes for good politics though to continue the export debate:)

Confusion over export policy also makes for putting off decisions by
users, at least certain kinds of users, again cutting speed of
proliferation of any encryption.  Both ends must be compatible and if
you can delay one end from anything by confusing the issue what is the
default means of communication?

Still, software encryption solutions are slow and require some user
commitment to know what they are doing in order to work.  What
percentage of people truly download the stuff, religiously use it and
then require everyone else that they converse with to do the same and
strictly adhere to that requirement?  There is still a need for bulk
encryption devices that are standardized (read I can buy compatible
units from more than one vendor or at the very least from a vendor
that I trust - I know contradiction in words), supportable (read I
don't want to take the company hit if my encryption solution is
cracked), cost nothing, do not introduce delay, do not impact voice
quality, and are totally invisible to the end user (heard the last
four over and over and over again from every major account).  

And are you absolutely, positively, 100% sure that the encryption
software you just downloaded doesn't have a back door?  How many
versions of PGP have been introduced with slicker install, more
features, etc.?  How did they get to the ftp site?  Read the book "The
Next World War" by Adams, (James?) to see how long this type of
mindset has been around.


John S. Maddaus
jmaddaus@usa.net
Merlin Communication Systems
Telecom fraud and security consulting

------------------------------

From: Art.Walker@onesourcetech.com (Art Walker)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: 13 Jul 1999 15:04:51 GMT
Organization: Recovering Nebraskans Clinic - Denver, CO
Reply-To: Art.Walker@onesourcetech.com


On Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:07:01 -0500, James Bellaire <bellaire@tk.com> wrote:

> Returning to the original definitions would be good:

> .ORG - owned by organizations/not for profit
> .NET - owned by network operators
> .COM - owned by commercial entities/for profit/misc

Better yet, fold all of those domains into a single ".us" entity, and
use a directory service (say, LDAP-based) for mapping company names and
information to a specific domain entry.

As part of the directory schema, detailed information about ownership,
location, contacts and type of business could be easily included.

Of course, the question about exactly who will run these directory
servers would still need to be figured out.


- Art


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: But I believe the domain called '.us'
is already in use by state and local governments and some public
schools; things like that.  PAT]

------------------------------

From: Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.chinet.com>
Subject: Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts
Organization: Chinet - Public Access since 1982
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 15:11:46 GMT


Thor Lancelot Simon <tls@rek.tjls.com> wrote:

> Furthermore, it bears notice that these bills are being heavily
> pushed by the West Publishing wanna-be-monopoly as a cure to their
> recent series of court defeats -- they want to "own" all legal
> opinions by collecting them and adding their own page numbers, so you
> can't cite them correctly without paying for a set of WestLaw books or
> their online service (or Lexis/Nexis, who license the data from them).
> The courts said there's no copyright in page numbers, so now they're
> pushing these bills trying to create one.

Page numbers are an issue because courts require them in citations to
Reporters. In many state appellate and state supreme courts and
federal circuit courts, West publishes the official record of the
opinions. Lower courts require that citations include page numbers in
the official publication.

This is all public information. The solution would be for the courts
to hire professional editors and codify their own opinions. Till a few
years ago, Illinois Revised Statutes was the only codification of
state law; it used the Smith-Hurd classification system owned by
West. The legislature finally got smart and codified its own
statutes. There's no more Chapter 111 2/3; oh, well.

John R Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:

> I believe the L of C only catalogs books they physically receive for
> copyright registration, so they're far less likely to have books that
> don't exist.

No. The Library of Congress has had a Cataloging-in-Publication
program since 1971. Publishers submit galleys or manuscripts to LC
technical services librarians ahead of publication. LC provides
preassigned catalogue card numbers, Subject Heading Classifications
according to its self-designed schedule, LC and Dewey decimal
classification numbers, as well as standardized data entry of author,
title, publisher, edition, etc. called a MARC record. The ISBN is
still assigned by the publisher of Books In Print, R.R. Bowker.

Of course, there are a great many publishers who don't bother to
obtain preassigned card numbers or participate in Cataloguing in
Publication. This isn't too bright, since these two programs make it
much less costly for libraries to obtain their books as all cataloging
has been performed.

------------------------------

From: eljefe@payphone-directory.org (J. Foote)
Subject: Re: 1-800-COLLECT Diverted by Payphones?
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 06:18:36 GMT
Organization: Wolfe Internet Access, L.L.C


On Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:33:26 -0500, Causey Rare Coins <causeys@ix.
netcom.com> wrote:

> I used 1-800-COLLECT from two privately owned pay phones in the Fort
> Worth, TX area. One time the number answered "Telecom USA" and the
> other one answered "Pilgrim Telephone" What's going on? How can these
> guys divert their phone number somewhere else?

The pay phones are programmed by the phone company to divert that
number.  I've encountered it on an awful lot of pay phones in my area
(State of Washington) and have been diverted to Telecom USA, MCI
Worldcom, AT&T, and sometimes had the number totally blocked by the
pay phone.

------------------------------

Reply-To: <stannc.no1spam@yahoo.com>
From: Stan Schwartz <stannc.no1spam@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: National 555 Telephone Exchange
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 02:45:40 -0400


The report makes me wonder about the enforcement of 555 usage in
entertainment created before 1992, but used today. One case I spotted
recently was on a Nick at Nite re-run of the 'WKRP' television show.
Back in the late '70's, the number 555-WKRP was perfectly fake, but
someone took the time to go back and re-phrase/re-loop the soundtrack
so that you only saw Dr. Johnny Fever say the number without the
sound.  It's not as awkward, but will now live in television phone
number infamy with 'The Honeymooners'' "BEnsonhurst 0-7740/1" (where
the sound had to be re-looped because Jackie Gleason kept mixing up
the 'correct' and 'incorrect' phone numbers that were a plot device in
an episode).


 - Stan
(going back to the TV now...)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 01:14:26 -0700
From: LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com (Linc Madison)
Subject: Re: *67 and *71
Organization: LincMad Consulting


In article <telecom19.214.2@telecom-digest.org>, varney@lucent.com wrote:

>    I noted this option in a TELECOM Digest article on 9 Dec 1997 with
> subject "Re: Help with a DMS switch, stutter dialtone".  Brief recap:

> Linc Madison <Telecom@LincMad.NOSPAM> wrote (in the 1997 article):

>> I'm sorry if I sound annoyed -- I am, but mostly at the Northern Telecom
>> engineers for designing this as an option instead of simply designing the
>> thing to always allow dialing through, and even moreso at the techs at
>> Pacific Bell for deciding to use as the default a setting that should
>> never be used under any circumstances.

>> There simply is no reason to discard digits dialed through the stutter.
>> No reason whatsoever.

>    Much as I might enjoy "roasting" Nortel engineers when I run into
> them, I feel "No reason whatsoever" is too harsh.  They are doing just
> what Bellcore says in TR-391 and other CLASS requirements -- offering
> "confirmation tone" or not is an option of the TELCo.  And, unfortunately, 
> Bellcore specifies only THREE tones (in GR-506 LSSGR) that receive
> digits and stop the tone.  These are Dial Tone, Recall Dial Tone and
> Message Waiting Tone.  Confirmation Tone does not.

You are correct.  I was roasting the wrong party in that comment.  I
am still angry at the Northern Telecom engineers for following a
Bellcore (Telcordia) standard which has no reason for it whatsoever.
I am still VERY angry at Pacific Bell for selecting hardware which
follows a stupid standard.

There is a reason for the behavior of the switch -- a committee
decided that we should always do the stupid thing instead of the
obviously right thing.

However, the fact remains that there is no reason whatsoever to ever
discard digits dialed through the "stutter" (confirmation tone).  The
behavior is absolutely inexcusable, and the applicable Telcordia
standard must be revised.  Unfortunately, no one sees this issue as
being important enough to bother with, but quite seriously, if I'm
ever in a hiring situation and find out that an applicant was involved
with that committee, his or her application will hit the trash bin
faster than you can blink.

Let me dial through the confirmation tone!!  There is ABSOLUTELY NEVER
ANY BENEFIT WHATSOEVER to the customer in having digits discarded.
It's in the same league with forbidding 1+ on local calls, and in fact
I'd have to say that it's even more brain-dead and even more
indefensible.

It's very important to protect the consumer from accidentally having
the telephone behave in an intelligent and convenient fashion.

Also, I discovered that in some cases, dialing, for example,
*70#nxx-xxxx would allow me to dial through, but sometimes, if the
switch hadn't finished processing the *70 fully by the time it got the
first digit of the actual number, it would return fast busy.  I
finally had to give up and program in *70W on the modem, or, for
instance, *82<pause><pause> on the speed dial.  I don't have CO-based
speed dial, so I don't know what it would do with *82.1.NPA.NXX.XXXX.
Would I have to program in just the number and then dial *82, pause,
and then dial the appropriate speed dial number?

(Note that *70W555-0121 is better than *70,,555-0121, because the
"W" tells the modem specifically to wait for steady dial tone, as
opposed to waiting a fixed length of time.)



** Do not send me unsolicited commercial e-mail spam of any kind **
Linc Madison  *  San Francisco, California  *   Telecom@LincMad-com
URL:< http://www.lincmad.com > * North American Area Codes & Splits
>> NOTE: replies sent to <Telecom@LincMad-com> will be read sooner!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:24:44 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: FCC Cuts Local Number Portability Surcharges


By Sandra Guy, tele.com
Jul 12, 1999 (6:53 AM)

Foregoing millions of dollars in potential surcharges, incumbent local 
carriers (ILECs) appear to be going along quietly with huge, federally 
imposed cuts in the amounts they hoped to recover to provide local 
number portability for telephone service customers. 

http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19990712S0008 

------------------------------

From: Agus Surono <agus@majalah.gramedia.com>
Subject: Seeking History of Cellular Phones
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:55:14 -0700
Reply-To: agus@majalah.gramedia.com



Please help me, where I can find sites of history of cellular phone?
Thank you.


Agus

------------------------------

From: peng1234@singnet.com.sg
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:05:15 +0800
Subject: Public Phones Number Listing


Hi,

Just wondering, is there any way posiible for one to get the telephone
number of public phones without calling the exchange or
telecommunications company (telco) ?


Regards,

Lucas


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: There was a web site I found once
which had lists of numbers for pay phones all over the USA. That 
seemed to be its sole purpose, just listing all those pay phone
numbers for whoever found it of interest. I forget where I found
that site. Maybe a reader knows.   PAT]

------------------------------

From: wb5agz@dc.cis.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)
Subject: Re: Cell Phones at Gas Stations
Date: 13 Jul 1999 12:11:40 GMT
Organization: Oklahoma State University in Stillwater, Oklahoma


In article <telecom19.197.6@telecom-digest.org>, John McHarry
<mcharry@erols.com> wrote:

> added bonus.)  NE2s only require about 67 volts to ignite, but I would
> guess my device could set off an air/fuel mixture if it had to.

	Yes.  You made the basic working parts of an automobile
ignition system.  Inductors such as buzzers and their brethren such as
relays and solenoids require some energy to build a magnetic field
when a current goes through the coil.  When that current is
disconnected, the field collapses and the energy which built the field
now escapes quickly in the form of a high-voltage low-current pulse.
I remember learning this as a kid when I would connect a buzzer or
relay to a battery and then get the daylights knocked out of me when I
disconnected the wires.  The bigger the coil, the bigger the zap.

	If you read the voltage across the coil with an oscilloscope,
the spike will be of the opposite polarity of the voltage that
magnetized the coil.  It is possible to put a diode right across the
coil such that it doesn't conduct when the coil is magnetized, but
does short out the big spike when the energizing voltage is removed.
This makes the relay or solenoid release a little more slowly, but
gets rid of the big spike that can destroy semiconductors and make
radio static.


Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK 
OSU Center for Computing and Information Services Data Communications Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 01:30:31 -0700
From: LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com (Linc Madison)
Subject: Re: Hazards of the Young and Mobile - Handheld Powers
Organization: LincMad Consulting


In article <telecom19.210.1@telecom-digest.org>, Arthur Ross
<a.ross@ieee.org> wrote:

> This is yet another of those "prove a negative" risk-to-the-public
> kinds of questions. Is electromagnetic radiation hazardous to your
> health? Obviously yes ... at SOME power level. It will cook you, as in
> microwave ovens (which, by the way, are not greatly different in
> frequency from the PCS wireless phones - 2450 MHz versus 1900 MHz,
> roughly).  But are there risks other than thermal - more subtle
> effects? How do those risks scale with exposure? What level of risk is
> acceptable? The risk is obviously low for the powers involved in the
> portable phones, so the answers can be obtained only in a statistical
> sense. For a high degree of statistical certainty, large sample sizes
> are require. If there are bad effects that result from lifetimes of
> exposure, then lifetimes of experiment and data gathering may be
> required.

That brings up an interesting question.  We've all seen the warning
signs advising pacemaker users to avoid places where microwave ovens
are in use because the small amount of microwave radiation leakage
from the oven could adversely affect the operation of the pacemaker.

How does the power level of a cellular/PCS phone operating normally
compare with the amount of radiation leakage one might find near a
microwave oven?  Worse case, what if the phone is in someone's front
shirt pocket, or otherwise in very close proximity to the pacemaker?

As to the risk of a cellular phone igniting a gas station, I'd say
it's sufficiently remote that it should be completely disregarded.
It's so much less likely to cause a fire than simply starting the
car engine, as has been pointed out, not to mention the risk from
having a catalytic converter at 1300 degrees Fahrenheit roaming
through the gas station.  Cigarette smoking?  Yes, by all means, ban
it in all gas stations, and vigorously enforce the ban.  Keep in mind
that your car doesn't burn liquid gasoline, it burns gasoline vapor.
But worrying about the spark from a cell phone is silly beyond words,
most especially singling out cellular phones among all the other
miscellaneous electronic devices.


** Do not send me unsolicited commercial e-mail spam of any kind **
Linc Madison  *  San Francisco, California  *   Telecom@LincMad-com
URL:< http://www.lincmad.com > * North American Area Codes & Splits
>> NOTE: replies sent to <Telecom@LincMad-com> will be read sooner!

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #216
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Thu Jul 15 02:07:22 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA12668;
	Thu, 15 Jul 1999 02:07:22 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 02:07:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907150607.CAA12668@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #217

TELECOM Digest     Thu, 15 Jul 99 02:07:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 217

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Daily Electronic Newspaper Started (TELECOM Digest Editor)
    8th International Conference on Telecommunication Systems (Armin Eberlein)
    Callers Can't Reach 231 Area Code (Jack Decker)
    The .US Domain (James Ford)
    1800SKYTEL2 Blocked in Las Vegas (Flor Riklef)
    Busiest Public Telephone (Bram Dov Abramson)
    DSL vs. Cable Modems (Lauren Weinstein)
    FTC: Hands Off Net Privacy (Monty Solomon)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 00:36:30 EDT
From: TELECOM Digest Editor <ptownson@telecom-digest.org>
Subject: Daily Electronic Newspaper Started


After all the complaining I do here about newspapers and my dislike of
the bias openly displayed by many or most of them regards the Internet,
I decided to quit complaining and do something about it. I got tired
of the fact that when you go to the {New York Times} you have to be
registered with them to view their pages. I got tired of the {Boston
Globe} always complaining about their copyright and selling the stuff
they have in their archives, rather than following the net tradition
of making their archives available to everyone.

So, I started an online newspaper called the Telecom Digest Daily E-News.
That sounds a little corny, I know; I have not thought of a better name
for it as of yet.

   You will find it at http://telecom-digest.org/news

Here is what you will find in this continuously updated journal:

      Reuters News and Photos 
      Time Magazine Online
      Time Digital
      Salon Magazine
      CMPNet TechWeb News
      CMPNet TechWeb Communication News
      PC World
      Wired News Politics
      Wired News Technology
      Court TV Online
      News.com Perspectives
      News.com Communications
      News.com Rumor Mill
      Business Wire: Telecommunications     
      About.com Computers and Technology
      Upside (several features)
      Wacky Times

In each case, I have selected several items of interest from each 
publication. By clicking on the headlines, you can read the full text
of each story, without having to surf around to several different
locations each day. For example, on a Reuter's picture of President
Clinton, simply click the picture. For this week's report in Wacky
Times about the surgeon who successfully operated on his own brain,
you'd go to that place on the page and click on the headline. I then
link to that location, fetch the story and present it.

At most of the sites where I select items, I usually select the five
most important news stories of the day. The above list of sites is
sort of small right now; I only visit about twenty places as you see
in the list. But this will be expanding soon to include a lot more
web-based publications and I expect to have several more on line soon.

This whole thing is entirely automated; as new articles become avail-
able from the different sources mentioned above they are automatically
installed with links via this site. At any given time you go there to
scan the files available, it will be slightly different than it was
a few minutes earlier since the various web sites I visit update their
stories at different times. 

In doing this, I tried to emulate the model Lila Atcheson put together
in 1920 when she and DeWitt Wallace began the {Reader's Digest}: Many
of you are far too busy to spend a lot of time surfing the net looking
for important articles at dozens of different web sites, many of which
require registration, passwords, etc. By having it all in one place,
then you need only bookmark that one location and visit it for a few
minutes each day picking and choosing through the hundred-plus articles
available, many of which are replaced daily, and almost all of which
are gone after a couple days. Of course no password, registration or
privacy-invading personal questions are asked. 

I officially call this the TELECOM Digest Daily E-News, but a sub-title
is 'Best of the Net'. I hope it saves you time and effort in locating
the news you want to read each day. I do not anticipate including any
of the traditional print media; only web-based publications with maybe
an occassional exception.

Please get aquainted with http://telecom-digest/news and begin scanning
it regularly.

Don't forget also that you may link up to three of your POP-style
email addresses through our email service also, which will enable you
to read email conveniently at http://telecom-digest/postoffice while
scanning the daily news here at the same site.


Patrick Townson

------------------------------

From: Armin Eberlein <eberlein@enel.ucalgary.ca>
Subject: 8th International Conference on Telecommunication Systems - CfP
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:32:23 -0600
Organization: U of C
Reply-To: eberlein@enel.ucalgary.ca


Dear colleagues,

Enclosed is a copy of the Call for Papers for the 8th International
Conference on Telecommunication Systems which will be held March 9-12,
2000 in Nashville, TN, USA.

I am going to organize two sessions on
* Telecommunication Service Design, and
* Telecommunication System Design

I would very much appreciate if you considered submitting a paper
(preferable), or titles and extended abstracts for potential
presentation on this conference by September 15, 1999. Papers
submitted to the two sessions listed above should be send to me
directly by e-mail in Word format or Postscript.

Please feel free to forward the CfP to anybody interested in submitting
papers.

Looking forward to receiving your submission.


Kind regards,

Dr. Armin Eberlein
Assistant Professor
Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering
University of Calgary                    Tel: +1 (403) 220-5002
2500 University Drive NW             Fax: +1 (403) 282-6855
Calgary, AB, Canada  T2N 1N4     e-mail: eberlein@enel.ucalgary.ca
http://www.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/eberlein

			C A L L  for  P A P E R S
	8th International Conference on Telecommunication Systems,
			  Modeling and Analysis
			    March 9-12, 2000
			Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Sponsors:  American Telecommunication Systems Management Association
           BellSouth Telecommunications, Inc.
	   IFIP WG 7.3 "Computer system modeling and performance evaluation"
	   INFORMS Technical Section on Telecommunications
	   INFORMS College of Information Systems
	   Owen Graduate School of Management, Vanderbilt University
	   Vanderbilt Institute of Public Policy Studies

           http://munin.utdallas.edu/atsma/icts/icts2000.html


The 8th International Conference on Telecommunication Systems -
Modeling and Analysis will be held in Nashville on March 9-12, 2000.
The conference will build on the tradition of the earlier
conferences. The general idea is to encourage informal interaction and
exchanges of ideas by limiting the number of participants,
concentrating on a few topics, and by presenting new problems and
problem areas. The objective is to advance the state of the modeling
and analysis in telecommunications by stimulating research activity on
new and important problems.

The conference will be divided into segments with each segment devoted
to a specific topic.  This will allow for little conflict between
segments. Papers will be screened by the Program Committee to ensure
the quality of presentations. A decentralized paper handling process
will be used. Abstracts and papers should be submitted directly to a
Program Committee member who will handle its review.  It is expected
that this will expedite the paper review process.  Social and cultural
activities will be included in the 2000 agenda.  The conference will
be held at two sites, Thursday and Friday meetings will take place at
the Tennessee Economic Development Center at the BellSouth Tower in
downtown Nashville.  The Saturday and Sunday meeting will be held at
the ClubHouse Inn & Conference Center. (See description at the end of
the message).

Listed below are some of the potential segments:

-- Configuration of ATM Networks
-- DSL and Cable Based Systems
-- Internet and its Impact on Commerce
-- Internet and Intranet
-- Mobility and Nomadicity
-- Multimedia modeling and analysis
-- Pricing and Economic Analysis of Internet and E-commerce
-- Topological Design and Network Configuration Problems
-- Design and Analysis of Local Access Networks and Outside
     Plant Problems
-- Low and Medium Earth Orbit Satellite Communication Systems
-- Cellular Systems and PCS Modeling and Configuration
-- Time Dependent Expansion of Telecommunication Systems
-- Network Reliability, Availability and Survivability
-- Network Design Problems in Gigabit and Terabit Networks
-- LAN, WAN Global Network Interconnection
-- Artificial Intelligence/Heuristics in Telecommunication Systems
-- Quantitative Methods in Network Management
-- Pricing and Economic Analysis of Telecommunications
-- Impact of Telecommunications on Industrial Organization
-- Performance Evaluation of Telecommunication Systems
-- Distributed Computing and Distributed Data Bases
-- Security and Privacy Issues in Telecommunications
-- Virtual Reality, Multimedia and their Impact
-- Standards

The Program Committee is open to any ideas you might have regarding
additional topics or format of the conference.  The intention is,
whenever possible, to limit the number of parallel sessions to three.
The conference is scheduled over a weekend so as to reduce teaching
conflicts for academic participants, and to enable participants to
take advantage of weekend hotel and airfare rates and of the many
events that take place in the downtown area.

Members of the Program Committee include:

Abdullah Al-Dhelaan, King Saud University, Saudi Arabia <dhelaan@usa.net>
Kemal Altinkemer, Purdue University, USA <kemal@mgmt.purdue.edu>
Mario Baldi, Politecnico di Torino, Italy <mbaldi@polito.it>
Suk-Gwon Chang, Hanyang University, Republic of Korea <changsg@email.hanyang.ac.kr>
Imrich Chlamtac, University of Texas at Dallas, USA <chlamtac@utdallas.edu>
Laurie G. Cuthbert, Queen Mary & Westfield College, UK
  <l.g.cuthbert@elec.qmw.ac.uk>
Lou Dellaverson, Motorola, Radio Research Lab, USA <FLD100@email.mot.com>
Piet Demeester, University of Ghent - IMEC, Belgium <demeester@intec.rug.ac.be>
Bezalel Gavish(Chairman), Vanderbilt University, USA
  <gavishb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu> 
Luis Gouveia, Universidade de Lisboa, Portugal <lgouveia@fc.ul.pt>
Horst W. Hamacher, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
  <hamacher@mathematik.uni-kl.de>
Richard J. Harris, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, Australia
  <richard@catt.rmit.edu.au>
Frank Huebner, AT&T Labs, USA <fhuebner@att.com>
Joakim Kalvenes, The University of Texas at Dallas, USA <kalvenes@utdallas.edu>
Johan M. Karlsson, Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden <johan@tts.lth.se>
Konosuke Kawashima, NTT Advanced Technology Corp., JAPAN
  <shima@mitaka.ntt-at.co.jp>
Hans Kruse, Ohio University, USA <hkruse1@ohiou.edu>
Nikos E. Mastorakis,  Hellenic Naval Academy, Greece
  <mastor@softlab.ece.ntua.gr>
Armin R. Mikler, University of North Texas, USA <mikler@silo.csci.unt.edu>
Sverrir Olafsson, BT Laboratories, UK <sverrir.olafsson@bt-sys.bt.co.uk>
June S. Park, The University of Iowa, USA <june-park@uiowa.edu>
Hasan Pirkul, University of Texas at Dallas, USA <hpirkul@utdallas.edu>
Guy Pujolle, University of Versailles, France <guy.pujolle@prism.uvsq.fr>
Dimitrios N. Serpanos, Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas, Greece
  <serpano@ics.forth.gr>
Yutaka Takahashi, Kyoto University, Japan <takahashi@i.kyoto-u.ac.jp>
J. L. van den Berg, KPN Research, The Netherlands
  <j.l.vandenberg@research.kpn.com>
Lipo Wang, Nanyang Technological University, Singapore <elpwang@ntu.edu.sg>
Lars C. Wolf, Darmstadt University of Technology, Germany
  <lars.wolf@kom.tu-darmstadt.de>

Due to the limit on the number of participants, early conference and
hotel registration is recommended.  The ClubHouse Inn & Conference
Center is the official hotel of the conference.  To ensure your
participation, please use the following steps:

1. Send to a Program Committee member, by September 15, 1999, a paper
(preferable), or titles and extended abstracts for potential
presentations to be considered for the conference. Sending more than
one extended abstract is encouraged, enabling the Program Committee to
have a wider choice in terms of assigning talks to segments. Use
E-mail to expedite the submission of titles and abstracts and
papers. If you would like to organize a panel on a specific subject,
please send the proposal to Bezalel Gavish.

2.  Use the forms at the end of this message to pre-register for the
conference and the hotel. Let us also know if you would like to have a
formal duty during the conference such as: Session Chair, or
Discussant.

3.  You will be notified by December 1, 1999, which
abstract(s)/paper(s) have been selected for the conference. Detailed
instructions on how to prepare camera-ready copies will be sent to
authors of accepted presentations.February 1, 2000, is the deadline
for sending a final version of the paper. Participants will receive
copies of the collection of papers to be presented.

4.  All papers submitted to the conference will be considered for
publication in the "Telecommunication Systems" journal. If you do not
wish for your paper to be submitted for publication consideration in
the "Telecommunication Systems" journal, please specify it in the
cover letter of your submission.

The Program Committee looks forward to receiving your
feedback/ideas. Feel free to volunteer any help you can offer.  If you
have suggestions for Segment Leaders (i.e., individuals who will have
a longer time to give an overview/state of the art talk on their
segment subject) please E-mail them to Professor Gavish.  Also, if
there are individuals whose participation you view as important,
please send their names and E-mail addresses to a Program Committee
Chairman, or forward to them a copy of this message.

I look forward to a very successful conference.


Sincerely yours,

Bezalel Gavish

The 5th Informs Telecommunications Conference, BOCA 2000 sponsored by
the Informs section on telecommunications will be held March 5-8, 2000
in Boca Raton, Florida.  The conference announcement can be found at,
http://www.crt.umontreal.ca/GERAD/boca2000/.  The dates were selected
so that you will be able to participate in both conferences.

      ----------------------------------------------------------
				 Cut Here
      ----------------------------------------------------------
	Eighth International Conference on Telecommunication Systems
			   Modeling and Analysis
			     REGISTRATION FORM
		Dates: March 9, 2000 (afternoon) to March 12, 2000

							Date: ______________

Name: ________________________________________	     Title: ________________

Affiliation:	____________________________________________________________

Address:	____________________________________________________________

		____________________________________________________________

		____________________________________________________________

Phone:		____________________________  FAX:	____________________

E-mail:	____________________________________________________________________

Potential Title of Paper(s): _______________________________________________

____________________________________________________________________________


I would like to Volunteer as			  Comments
A Session Chair:	Yes  No	_________________________________________
A Discussant:		Yes  No	_________________________________________
Organize a Session:	Yes  No	_________________________________________
				_________________________________________

REGISTRATION RATES and DEADLINES:
(Included in the registration fee are: Conference proceedings, a reception, two 
dinners, two lunches, coffee breaks, and cultural events.)

	Last Applicable		Academic	Industry	Corporate
	   Date			Rate		Rate		Rate
	---------------		--------	--------	--------
1. Pre-registration
	Until  Dec. 15, 1999	$ 430		$ 550		$1,500
2. Registration
	Until  Feb.  1, 2000	$ 530		$ 650		$1,500
3. On Site Registration
	After  Feb.  1, 2000	$ 630		$ 800		$1,500

As part of the conference registration dues you can become a member of
the "American Telecommunication Systems Management Association". 
Please mark an "X" in the following entry if you wish to become an ATSMA
member.

____	Yes, I wish to become an ATSMA member.
____	No, I do not wish to become an ATSMA member.

Mail your registration form and check to:

		Ms. Dru Lundeng
		ATSMA, Inc.
		Owen Graduate School of Management
		Vanderbilt University
		401 21st Avenue, South
		Nashville, TN 37203, USA

Checks should be made payable to:

		ATSMA, Inc., Eighth Telecommunication Conference

Refund Policy: Half refund, for requests received by January 15, 2000.
No refund after January 15, 2000.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------

HOTEL RESERVATIONS

A block of rooms has been reserved at the ClubHouse Inn & Conference
Center for the Conference participants. Please make your hotel
arrangements early, to insure getting a room at the special conference
rate. You will need to mention that you are a participant of the
"TELECOMMUNICATION SYSTEMS CONFERENCE," to receive the best price. Our
advice is to make your reservations as soon as possible. Hotel rooms
will be released from the Telecommunication Systems Conference block
on February 7, 2000, so PLEASE BE SURE AND RESERVE YOUR ROOMS BEFORE
FEBRUARY 7, 2000.


ClubHouse Inn & Conference Center
920 Broadway at Tenth Avenue
Nashville, TN 37203 USA
Phone:	615-244-0150
or 	1-800-258-2466 (Ask to be connected with the
			Nashville-Downtown ClubHouse.)
Fax:615-244-0445
http://www.clubhouseinn.com

RATES:

$110.00	Single Occupancy Room
$136.00	Double Occupancy Room
$15.00	For Each Additional Person in the Room

Rates are subject to state and local taxes, which currently total 12.25 percent.

All rates include a complimentary full breakfast buffet each morning,
also, each evening, ClubHouse offers a Managers' Reception serving
complimentary beverages.  Guests also receive free local phone calls.

ACCESS INFORMATION:

Recommended Airport: Nashville International Airport, 7 miles to the East.

Transportation: Gray Line's "Downtown Airport Express" - A shuttle
from Nashville International Airport to downtown hotels. Hours: 6:00
a.m. - 11:00 p.m. daily. Cost: $9.00 one way, $15.00 round trip. The
shuttle can be caught at the lower level of the airport near baggage
claim. Phone: 615-275-1180; 800-669- 9463

CLUBHOUSE INN & CONFERENCE CENTER
Reservation Request Form

NAME OF CONFERENCE:
8th Int'l. Conference on Telecommunication Systems
("TELECOMMUNICATION SYSTEMS CONFERENCE")

Reservations can be made at the following URL: 

http://www.clubhouseinn.com/5.reservations.shtml

or

Phone: 	615-244-0150
Fax: 	615-244-0445

You can also use the following form to mail or fax your reservation.

MAIL/FAX TO:
Reservations Manager
ClubHouse Inn and Conference Center
920 Broadway
Nashville, TN 37203

GUEST INFORMATION:

Arrival Date:		_______________________________________________________

Departure Date:		_______________________________________________________

Time of Arrival:	_______________________________________________________

No. of Rooms:		_______________________________________________________

No. of People:		_______________________________________________________

Guest Name:		_______________________________________________________

Address:		_______________________________________________________

			_______________________________________________________

			_______________________________________________________

			_______________________________________________________

Phone:			_______________________________________________________

PAYMENT METHOD:

[  ] Check or Money Order	No:_______________	Amount:_______________

[  ] Credit Card		Type:_____________	No:___________________

				Expiration date:____________	Amount:_______

TYPE OF ROOM:

[  ] Kingsize Bed	[  ] Double Beds
[  ] Smoking		[  ] Nonsmoking

Please note the ClubHouse Inn and Conference Center requires a deposit of one 
(1) night's room revenue or credit card to confirm all reservations.  Any 
cancellations or no shows without forty-eight (48) hour advance notification 
will result in forfeiture of deposit.

Travel Arrangements

The official travel agent for the Conference is Betsie Wilkerson with
Horizon Travel.  Her e-mail address is:

HORIZON4U <HORIZON4U@aol.com>

and her phone numbers are:

	615-383-7882 and 1-800-828-5529
	Fax:  615-383-9181

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 22:52:44 -0400
From: Jack Decker <jack@novagate.REMOVE-THIS.com.content.net>
Subject: Callers Can't Reach 231 Area Code


These excerpts are from the Muskegon (Michigan) Chronicle web site at
http://mu.mlive.com:80/news/index.ssf?/news/stories/19990713areacode.frm

Can't dial new area code? Phone provider may be culprit

Tuesday, July 13, 1999

 FROM AP AND LOCAL REPORTS

Out-of-state telephone callers might be experiencing difficulty reaching
someone located in the state's newest area code, 231.

But the problem probably isn't with local providers, such as Ameritech
and GTE, says Ron Conners, the director of North American Numbering
Plan Administration for Lockheed Martin I.M.S., which was hired by the
Federal Communications Commission to coordinate the new area codes on
a national level.

Conners said the problem really lies with the caller's local provider,
which needs to reprogram its system every time an area code changes
anywhere in the country.

"Callers with problems should call their local provider," said
Conners. "Let's just say you won't find any reluctance on the part of
the phone companies to do anything about (the new area code programming)."

[..... snip .....]

John VanWyck, public affairs manager for GTE Michigan, echoed Connors.

"I've had complaints from people calling from outside the area," he
said.

VanWyck said consumers experiencing problems calling the 231 area code
from outside the area need to check with their own local and
long-distance telephone service providers to make sure they have
upgraded their technology to handle the new area code number.

"Tell the people (from outside the area) who are experiencing the
problems to contact their telephone company or long-distance company,"
VanWyck said. "We're pretty sure the major long-distance suppliers are
all up to date, but there are literally hundreds of smaller providers
that may not be."

Jeff Zuk of Fruitport Township, a writer for a computer video magazine
in California, said a number of his vendors from outside the state
have let him know they have been unable to use the 231 exchange.

"Before you give out the area code, make sure people know they may not
yet get through," he said.

[.....snip.....]

Copyright 1999 Michigan Live Inc.

[End of excerpts]

If you want to read the full article, it should be up for at least a couple of
weeks at the Muskegon Chronicle web site:
http://mu.mlive.com:80/news/index.ssf?/news/stories/19990713areacode.frm

My comment: I can understand this kind of problem occurring the first,
second, or third time that a new long distance carrier has to deal
with an area code split.  But with new area codes appearing several
times yearly, it's just pure negligence for any long distance carrier
or local phone company that has been in business for more than six
months to not have some mechanism to get these changes programmed into
their switch in a timely manner.  Maybe there needs to be some kind of
financial penalty for carriers or phone companies that don't get new
area codes programmed into their switches by the start of the
permissive dialing period.

According to information I received a few months ago (not sure where
offhand, it may have been NANP Planning Letter PL-NANP-167), if anyone
needs to test whether you can reach numbers in area code 231, you may
place a test call to 231-922-2572. A recorded announcement will
indicate that the test call has been successfully completed. The test
number will be disconnected at the end of permissive dialing on
October 2, 1999.  I do not know if this number supervises or not, so
just keep in mind that you may get billed for the call.


Jack
(To send private e-mail, make the obvious modification to my e-mail address)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:45:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: James Ford <jford@tusc.net>
Subject: The .US Domain


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: But I believe the domain called '.us'
> is already in use by state and local governments and some public
> schools; things like that.  PAT]

One might wander over to http://www.isi.edu/in-notes/usdnr/ for
information or get details from RFC1480 (The US Domain), RFC1591 (Domain
Name System Structure and Delegation) and RFC 2146 (U.S. Government
Internet Domain Names).

 From RFC1480:

1.3  The US Domain

   The US Domain is an official top-level domain in the DNS of the
   Internet community.  The domain administrators are Jon Postel and Ann
   Westine Cooper at the Information Sciences Institute of the
   University of Southern California (USC-ISI).

   US is the ISO-3166 2-letter country code for the United States and
   thus the US Domain is established as a top-level domain and
   registered with the InterNIC the same way other country domains are.

   Because organizations in the United States have registered primarily
   in the EDU and COM domains, little use was initially made of the US
   domain.  In the past, the computers registered in the US Domain were
   primarily owned by small companies or individuals with computers at
   home.  However, the US Domain has grown and currently registers hosts
   in federal government agencies, state government agencies, K12
   schools, community colleges, technical/vocational schools, private
   schools, libraries, city and county government agencies, to name a
   few.

   Initially, the administration of the US Domain was managed solely by
   the Domain Registrar.  However, due to the increase in registrations,
   administration of subdomains is being delegated to others.

   Any computer in the United States may be registered in the US Domain.

------------------------------

From: Flor Riklef <rik.flor@abbott.com>
Subject: 1800SKYTEL2 Blocked in Las Vegas
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:40:36 -0500


I just got back from the Black Hat Briefings/DefCon in Las Vegas and
noticed an interesting problem.

I stayed at the Venetian, which has Sprint payphones.  The phones
apparently block 1-800-SKYTEL2, which is used with my SkyTel two-way
pager.

Several times my fiancee attempted to page me from a Venetian
payphone, only to get a "This call cannot be connected at this time".

Anyone else face a similiar problem?  Is it very common to block 800
numbers like this?


Thanks,

Rik

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:42:43 -0400
From: Bram Dov Abramson <babramson@telegeography.com>
Subject: Busiest Public Telephone


Someone has asked me what the world's busiest phone booth or public
phone is ... which would be an intriguing bit of trivia, but I don't
know the answer.  I guess it would have to be in an area with high
population density and low telephone penetration.  Has anyone ever run
across this statistic?

Cheers,


Bram Dov Abramson
Telecommunication Research Analyst
TeleGeography, Inc.

babramson@telegeography.com        tel +1 202 467 4043
http://www.telegeography.com       fax +1 202 467 0851

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jul 99 23:17 PDT
From: lauren@vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: DSL vs. Cable Modems


Greetings.  A recent message in this Digest quoted a DSL advocate
as suggesting that the service wouldn't "degrade" as more
subscribers in a neighborhood joined up, "unlike cable modems."

Well, yah, the DSL circuit *itself* won't degrade -- it's simply a
point-to- point local loop transmission technology.  However, most
inexpensive DSL circuits are intensively concentrated at the circuit
backhauls, and that's where the real bottlenecks typically exist.  For
example, if you dig around on Pacific Bell's DSL web pages, you'll
ultimately find a little notice mentioning that their inexpensive DSL
traffic is all carried on their ATM network, and that there is no
guaranteed throughput for those DSL users on that network.

In other words, just because you have 256K or 1M, or whatever
capability, on that low monthly cost DSL wire running between your
location and a rack down at the local telco, doesn't mean you'll be
getting that rate to or from your ISP, at any given time.  You'll
almost certainly be sharing those backhaul circuits with lots of other
users.  Unlike conventional DS1/T1 circuits (which are often now
delivered using HDSL loops) that are generally provisioned as
dedicated channel bandwidth all the way to the ISP POP, the cheap DSL
services will typically put many more users on a given subnetwork
backhaul, so the impact of other users on throughput can be very real.
This should not come as a surprise, however -- what did you expect for
$20 or $50/month?


 --Lauren--
Lauren Weinstein
lauren@vortex.com
Moderator, PRIVACY Forum --- http://www.vortex.com
Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy
Host, "Vortex Daily Reality Report & Unreality Trivia Quiz"
  --- http://www.vortex.com/reality

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 02:17:04 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: FTC: Hands Off Net Privacy


FTC: Hands Off Net Privacy
by Declan McCullagh 
4:45 p.m.  12.Jul.99.PDT

WASHINGTON -- In a blow to liberal groups, the Federal Trade
Commission on Tuesday will urge Congress not to regulate Web sites'
privacy practices.

The FTC report on Internet privacy, requested by Congress last year, 
states that few commercial sites have published data collection and use 
policies, but it's still too early to start regulating the Internet. 

http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/20687.html

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #217
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Fri Jul 16 02:32:04 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA01031;
	Fri, 16 Jul 1999 02:32:04 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 02:32:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907160632.CAA01031@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #218

TELECOM Digest     Fri, 16 Jul 99 02:32:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 218

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Toronto(416)'s New Area Code? (Kevina_toronto1@my-deja.com)
    Looking For Industry Report (Robert Watson)
    Cell Phones and Astronomers (Mike Pollock)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Arthur Shapiro)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Mike Van Pelt)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Jonathan)
    Re: www. prefixes (Derek J. Balling)
    Re: Proving Negatives/Cell Phones & Gas Stations (Orin Eman)
    Re: 1-800-COLLECT Diverted by Payphones? (Bob Goudreau)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Art Walker)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Derek J. Balling)
    Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts (Thor Lancelot Simon)
    Re: Lower-Priced Always-on DSL (Mike Van Pelt)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: kevina_toronto1@my-deja.com
Subject: Toronto(416)'s New Area Code?
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 20:01:34 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


Does anyone have any information on Toronto's new area code?  I noticed
that http://www.647.com/ has been reserved, could it be Bell Canada???
for advertising the new area code???  I have also noticed I can dial all
local numbers as 10-digit numbers does that mean 10-digit dialing is
going to be forced on us before year end???  I which the code could have
been 649 ( 6/49 is a popular lottery here!!!)  With such a code people
would be less likely to resist the area code.

I have read somewhere on the net that 942 is also reserved for Toronto
as a future area code in a few years?  If so why not just have a three
way split now instead of a overlay???  ie.  Toronto, East York, and York
to keep "416" and wireless, Etobicoke to move to 942, and North York to
647, and Scarborough to 437(which I read is also reserved for Toronto)??
Why wait a few years for the pain of a split, why not just split now
enough to last a dozen years based on projections???  why not just split
the reserved area codes right now!!   Hey I wouldn't mind a new area
code?

Also as per info from Bell.  1+ numbers except for 1-800, 1-888, 1-877,
1-866, etc are toll numbers.  As such any overlay would be 10-digit not
11 digit.  In Toronto(416) if we want to dial Markham we dial
905-xxx-xxxx, however if we want to dial Hamilton we dial
1-905-xxx-xxxx.  if we dial a local 905 number as 1+ we get a message do
not dial 1+ before the number you are dialing!!

------------------------------

From: Robert Watson <Robert.Watson@Inference.com>
Subject: Looking For Industry Report
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 11:17:46 -0700
Organization: Inference


Hi Telecom Digest,

I am looking to purchasing some information on the telecom/communi-
cations industry. A description of what I am looking for is as
follows:

An examination of the Communication industry in detail. This would
involve looking at the subsegments like ISPs, Cellular, Pager, Small
Business Systems/PBX, Local Telecom (consumer and small business),
Broadband (cable, DSL, etc.), etc. and examining the market size,
potential early targets,  competitive landscape, and integration needs.

If you know of a group that publishes a report that might help me with
the above, I would appreciate the lead.


Robert.Watson@Inference.com
415 893 7239

------------------------------

From: Mike Pollock <pheel@sprynet.com>
Subject: Cellular Phones and Astronomers
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:30:43 -0400
Organization: It's A Mike!


It appears that cellular phones are interfering with the work of
astronomers by blocking the signals from high tech telescopes.

http://wire.ap.org/APpackages/video/0712astronomy.html

------------------------------

From: art.shapiro@unisys.com (Arthur Shapiro)
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:30:49 GMT
Organization: Unisys Corporation


In article <telecom19.215.9@telecom-digest.org>, LincMad001@
telecom-digest.zzn.com (Linc Madison) wrote:

> I don't believe that Anonymous Call Rejection has been tariffed for
> offer in California at all, although SBC/Pac Bell certainly wants to
> have it yesterday-if-not-sooner.  The 60% to 80% are estimates of the
> lines that by default show up as "private."

Incorrect.  I had ACR until this month in 949-472-xxxx (Orange County
 - Pacific Bell territory) and recently dropped it after it no longer
was offered for free.  Without notice, it had been increased to
$2/month.

My recollection is that it had become available toward the end of last
year.


Art Shapiro

------------------------------

From: mvp@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt)
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Date: 15 Jul 1999 23:15:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Services, Inc.


In article <telecom19.215.9@telecom-digest.org>, Linc Madison
<LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com> wrote:

> I don't believe that Anonymous Call Rejection has been tariffed for
> offer in California at all, although SBC/Pac Bell certainly wants to
> have it yesterday-if-not-sooner.  The 60% to 80% are estimates of the
> lines that by default show up as "private."

It's offered in San Jose.  I have had it for a couple of months.  It
gives CNID-blocked callers a nice, polite, informative message about
how to get through - either *82, or operator-assisted.

It's a much nicer message than the extremely snotty "Does not accept
blocked calls<click>" message programmed into the CallerID box.  Much
to my wife's irritation, I insisted on leaving that off.  Now, with
PacBell ACR, we're both happy.

Most people I know who have tried to call me who have gotten this
message have had no trouble.  One neighbor says he gets some other
number when he tries to use *82; I need to go see what brand of cheap
phone he's using.  I bet it doesn't send * or something silly like
that.

ACR seems to have drastically cut down on the amount of phone-spam we
get.  We only get the phone-spam from places that do not send CNID,
which is (I hope) a shrinking and soon to be vanishing subset of the
phone network.


Have you noticed that,  when we were young, we were told  | Mike Van Pelt
that  "everybody else is doing it"  was a  really stupid  | mvp@netcom.com
reason to do something, but now it's the standard reason  | KE6BVH
for picking a particular software package? -- Barry Gehm

------------------------------

From: Jonathan <jonathan@nospam-syntel.com>
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:02:42 -0700
Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com


> I don't believe that Anonymous Call Rejection has been tariffed for
> offer in California at all, although SBC/Pac Bell certainly wants to
> have it yesterday-if-not-sooner.  The 60% to 80% are estimates of the
> lines that by default show up as "private."

ACR is included with Caller ID ($6.50 per month).  If you don't have
Caller ID, you can get ACR for $2/month.  If you do have Caller ID, your
phone bill includes a separate line item for ACR with an offsetting
credit.

You disable ACR with *87 (default), enable with *77.

Given the high number of Californians who block their ID, using ACR is
pretty rude, and usually surprises people who encounter it.  But
relatively few people who call me (as it happens) block their ID.

The California Caller ID policy is really a tragic abuse of privacy.  It
seems to me that my right to know who is ringing a bell in my home,
disturbing whatever reverie I happen to be enjoying, is more important
that the accidental, historical right to make anonymous telephone
calls.  But we have already talked about this too much ...

ACR does not block "Out of Area" calls, and as has been discussed here,
that is the designation for a very large proportion of telemarketing
calls.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:19:37 -0700
From: Derek J. Balling <dredd@megacity.org>
Subject: Re: www. Prefixes


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Good for you. Better still, fix it so
> the 'www' causes it to bounce if someone does try to use it.  I do not
> know what you would get by entering http://www.telecom-digest.org
> since I have never tried it. Personally, if you do try it, I hope it
> makes your browser crash. :)  Did I ever mention I hate 'www' ??

Repeat after me:

           The Internet is not just the web.

Come on, say it a few more times ...

           The Internet is not just the web.

This is a surprising statement coming from you, Pat, since you've been 
around a while. If you're a popular site, and you've got a huge file 
archive available via FTP (perhaps let's say something like ftp.cdrom.com 
with multi-TB of transfers), as well as a booming web presence (say 
something along the lines of Yahoo or other popular web sites), would you 
imply that both the web farm and FTP farm should be on the boxes so that:

$ ftp patsdomain.com

would work, just as

$ lynx http://patsdomain.com/

and of course, the mail server wouldn't be "mail.patsdomain.com" it
would just be "patsdomain.com", just as ...

$ gopher patsdomain.com [or whatever the syntax for gopher is
 ... haven't used it in ages]

would also work? Of course not. The www exists, and is in predominant
use, because by and large people don't WANT to tie down their "main
domain name" to a single box or service (or using A record rotation a
limited series of boxes in semi-random order). Nor should they have
to. That's WHY DNS is hierarchical in nature.

The net has progressed to the point where "one box" cannot handle all
the services that are required of it. We don't want that
single-point-of-failure anyway.


D

------------------------------

From: orin@wolfenet.COM (Orin Eman)
Subject: Re: Proving Negatives/Cell Phones & Gas Stations
Date: 15 Jul 1999 19:13:56 GMT
Organization: Wolfe Internet Access, L.L.C


sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steven J Sobol) writes:

>> different parts of the world. But he says the only way a cell phone
>> could possibly spark a fire at a gas station would be if the caller
>> were to drop it, causing the battery to dislodge and hit the ground in
>> a certain way.

> (With the battery's metal contacts scraping the ground and causing a
> spark.)

Think about metal studded snow tires.  Think about metal keys dropped
or used to unlock filler caps.  The fuel trucks drag metal chains to
stop static buildup.

No, I don't think metal scraping the ground at a gas station could be
a problem.


Orin

------------------------------

From: Bob Goudreau <goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:09:00 EDT
Subject: Re: 1-800-COLLECT Diverted by Payphones?


sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steven J Sobol) wrote:

>> I've never tried that services, but isn't Telecom USA (who run 1010321
>> and 10110220) also MCI, which runs 1-800-COLLECT?

> 10-10-220 is DEFINITELY MCI. I'm rather surprised to hear someone
> asserting that 10-10-220 is Telecom USA. I don't think that's correct.

> 10-10-321 is operated by Telecom USA. I don't know what their
> affiliation is, if there is in fact an affiliation with MCI.

 From the horse's mouth (MCI Worldcom's "Corporate Overview" web page
at 
http://www.wcom.com/about_the_company/corporate_overview/US_fact_sheet/index.shtml):

  CONSUMER SERVICES
  ...

  1-800-COLLECT offers consumers significant savings over AT&T
  collect calling rates and can be used to call collect from any
  telephone, anywhere in the U.S. and to more than 130 international
  locations. 

  10-10-321 and 10-10-220 are both dial-around products marketed
  by Telecom*USA, a wholly owned subsidiary of the company since
  1990. Both products provide consumers with savings over AT&T's
  basic calling rates. 

  10-10-9000 is a national long distance directory that provides
  consumers with one number for all their directory assistance needs
  no matter what long distance carrier they use. 

Bob Goudreau			Data General Corporation
goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com		62 Alexander Drive	
+1 919 248 6231			Research Triangle Park, NC  27709, USA

------------------------------

From: Art.Walker@onesourcetech.com (Art Walker)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: 15 Jul 1999 19:44:33 GMT
Organization: Recovering Nebraskans Clinic - Denver, CO
Reply-To: Art.Walker@onesourcetech.com


On Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:57:04 -0400, J.F. Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@
videotron.ca> wrote:

> Nobody mentioned .INT for international organisations, and more
> importantly ... <iso country code>

> Why won't the USA use the .US domain ? 

> If US specific companies/groups/individuals had .US, that would leave
> .COM and ORG to global organisations. It would also make it quite
> specific that one is about to "deal" with a web site "based" in the
> United States and as such, one then expect to see prices in US
> currency. Browsing a site that ends in .CA makes you expect to see
> prices in canadian currency etc etc.

> Note that some countries such as Australia have further subdivided
> their name space.

> for instance: WWW.QANTAS.COM.AU (or is it www.qantas.co.au ?)

This whole discussion points out the primary shortcoming of the Domain
Name System in the first place -- it was designed for computers to use,
not humans.

End users shouldn't have to differentiate between company-name.com,
company-name.org, company-name.net or company-name.whatever (especially
in cases where different companies hold entries that differ only by the
domain suffix).

The current proposals to add additional top-level domains will only make
the situation worse.  We need to flatten the name space that *users* see
and move any additional hierarchy levels or TLDs to a mechanism (i.e.
directory service) that would hide the details from the user.

The other reason I suggested using a directory service for this kind of
information is that it can be added on top of existing services such as
DNS, which would avoid breaking existing Internet applications.

>> Another thing I find totally useless is the use of 'www' on the front
>> of every one of their names. If anyone cares to know, the use of 'www'
>> goes back to in the early nineties when file transfers were still
>> mostly all done by FTP.

At the very least, rename it from "www" to something pronouncable, such
as "web" (see http://web.Yost.com/Misc/webdot.html).


Art

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:28:37 -0700
From: Derek J. Balling <dredd@megacity.org>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce


> Why won't the USA use the .US domain ?

Because the US, unlike every other country, seemed to subdivide the
 .US domain in an utterly useless fashion.

In the UK, for example, an ISP can be like demon.co.uk (DEMON = the
company, CO = the UK equivalent of COM and UK obviously is the ISO
code for the UK). [ Note: I won't touch the fact that I can't actually
seem to find an ISO document listing UK, they all seem to list GB, but
there seems to be an exception going on there].

In the US, you HAVE to get your .US domain registered geographically.

For example, my employer would end up something like:

YAHOO.SANTACLARA.CA.US

How dumb is THAT? Especially considering we have offices in about 15 
different cities? Should we then have to register YAHOO.NEWYORK.NY.US, 
YAHOO.CHICAGO.IL.US, etc.?

There is no way to get something like: YAHOO.US, or YAHOO.COM.US or 
anything like that.

Canada has both options which is great, you can either have a "limited" 
presence (where you have something like, IIRC, COMPANY.TORONTO.ON.CA, or 
you can get COMPANY.CA if you've got a "national presence").

If ISI would reorg the way the US domain was laid out it would have been 
infinitely more useful. Now, inertia has set in, and they've lost the 
opportunity to make it useful.

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I believe that '.us' is used by local
> and state governments in the USA, while '.gov' is used only by the
> federal government.   PAT]

 .gov can be used by "any government agency" ... An example of this is 
www.bart.gov (Bay Area Rapid Transit here in the San Francisco area).

One thing that really annoys me is something like:
         www.fremontpolice.org
They could have had a .gov address for free, but didn't do so. Instead, 
they decided to spend tax-payer dollars sending money to NSI.


D

------------------------------

From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon)
Subject: Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts
Date: 15 Jul 1999 16:53:43 -0400
Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp.
Reply-To: tls@rek.tjls.com


In article <telecom19.216.3@telecom-digest.org>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.chinet.com> wrote:

> Thor Lancelot Simon <tls@rek.tjls.com> wrote:

>> Furthermore, it bears notice that these bills are being heavily
>> pushed by the West Publishing wanna-be-monopoly as a cure to their
>> recent series of court defeats -- they want to "own" all legal
>> opinions by collecting them and adding their own page numbers, so you
>> can't cite them correctly without paying for a set of WestLaw books or
>> their online service (or Lexis/Nexis, who license the data from them).
>> The courts said there's no copyright in page numbers, so now they're
>> pushing these bills trying to create one.

> Page numbers are an issue because courts require them in citations to
> Reporters. In many state appellate and state supreme courts and
> federal circuit courts, West publishes the official record of the
> opinions. Lower courts require that citations include page numbers in
> the official publication.

Where the "official" publication is the West publication, and West
wants to use this new bill to create an intellectual property right to
the page numbers.

So you couldn't prepare a correct legal brief without paying West money -
that is, you couldn't exercise your right to due process without paying
West a tax.

I think that demonstrates the sheer madness of this legislation rather
well, frankly.


Thor Lancelot Simon	                                 tls@rek.tjls.com
	"And where do all these highways go, now that we are free?"


------------------------------

From: mvp@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt)
Subject: Re: Lower-Priced Always-on DSL
Date: 15 Jul 1999 23:28:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Services, Inc.


In article <telecom19.210.7@telecom-digest.org>, Paul Robinson
<rfc1394a@aol.com> wrote:

> http://www.flashcom.com also at 1-877-Flashcom says they have DSL for
> as low as $49.95 a month (this is for one to three users.)  Map shows
> them available in the Washington, DC area (it's a national map on
> their website so the specific area is hard to tell).

Watch the terms of service, though ...

For one thing, they absolutely forbid you to run any sort of server
process on your home machine.  That means, you can not run telnetd or
ftpd or httpd and access your home machine from the Internet.

They say if they catch you running a server process, they'll charge
you their "business service" rate.

I ordered Flashcom service (much slower but twice as expensive SDSL,
because, alas, I am too far away from the CO for ADSL) and they never
(over a period of a month of repeatedly asking) gave me anything in
writing.  I postponed installation once hoping to get something in
writing from them.  Finally, I got someone on the phone who confirmed
the rumor about their ban on server processes, and I cancelled the
install.

I never did get anything in writing from them.  I was expected to sign
up for a one-year commitment for $80/month based on merely phone
conversations.

I don't think so ...


Have you noticed that,  when we were young, we were told  | Mike Van Pelt
that  "everybody else is doing it"  was a  really stupid  | mvp@netcom.com
reason to do something, but now it's the standard reason  | KE6BVH
for picking a particular software package? -- Barry Gehm

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #218
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Fri Jul 16 03:12:04 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA02208;
	Fri, 16 Jul 1999 03:12:04 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 03:12:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907160712.DAA02208@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #219

TELECOM Digest     Fri, 16 Jul 99 03:12:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 219

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    BellSouth MemoryCall Fails For Some Forwarded Calls (David A. Burton)
    Communications System Parametric Modeling Software? (Luis Vazquez)
    Yet another "Backhoe" Telecom Outage (Ronald B. Oakes)
    Domain-Name Tales: Beer.com Pays; Excite.com Moves (Monty Solomon)
    MCI Eliminates Minimum Usage Charge, National Access Fee! (Eli Mantel)
    Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intell (C Macbride)
    Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intell (L Erickson)
    Re: Busiest Public Telephone (John R. Levine)
    Re: Busiest Public Telephone (Andrew Green)
    Re: Public Phones Number Listing (Koos van den Hout)
    Bible Sales Beyond Grave Spark UK Police Probe (David A. Jensen)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David A. Burton <dave48@burtonsys.com.nospam>
Subject: BellSouth MemoryCall Fails For Some Forwarded Calls
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 06:58:48 -0500
Organization: Burton Systems Software


About three or four weeks ago, BellSouth made a change of some sort,
and now my MemoryCall service does not work properly for some incoming
calls.  It still works for calls directly dialed to my residential
phone number, and also when my BellSouth DCS phone is forwarded to my
residential phone number (either to the primary or to one of my
RingMaster distinctive ring numbers).  But when my business line is
forwarded to that same number, and I don't answer the call, MemoryCall
picks up with a generic "Welcome to BellSouth MemoryCall
service ... please enter a mailbox number" message, instead of my
personal greeting.

It used to work.  It worked fine for about six months.

I've been unsuccessful trying to get them to fix it.  Sometimes the
BellSouth repair people tell me that it is supposed to work this way,
and that it was working incorrectly during the previous six months
(when the forwarded calls got my correct greeting).  I've also been
told that MemoryCall is a different company, and that it is not a
different company, and that there's no way it could ever have worked,
and (many times) that someone "from MemoryCall" would call me back
(which they never do).

Two or three times I've been informed that it isn't really broken,
because a caller can still leave me a message, by entering my "mailbox
number" (which is the seven-digit phone number).  But, of course, this
is not true, since the caller called a different number (which was
forwarded to this phone) and therefore the caller does not know what
number to enter.  A couple of times I've been told that "when you
forward a number, the number that gets sent to MemoryCall is the
number you originally dialed, not the number it was forwarded to," so
that MemoryCall can't tell whose greeting to play and mailbox to use.

But as a test, I forwarded that same business line to a friend's home
phone, when I knew she wasn't home, because she also has MemoryCall
service.  It was a local call, but she's on a different CO.  Then I
called my business line.  I got her proper personalized MemoryCall
greeting, not the generic greeting.  In other words, it worked
properly, just as mine used to work.

So, I conclude that the problem doesn't have anything to do with
the business line that is being forwarded.  So it must be a
problem with my residential line that has the MemoryCall service.
Yet it still DOES still work for the calls forwarded from my
Bellsouth DCS phone.

In fact, if I call-forward the business line to my DCS phone, and
call-forward the DCS phone to my residential line (or to either of the
RingMaster numbers), i.e., two hops, and then I call my business line
from another phone (yes, I have a lot of phones!), the residential
phone rings properly, and if I don't answer then MemoryCall picks up
with my proper, personalized greeting.  In other words, everything
works (except caller ID).

Could it be that MemoryCall only fails when the call is forwarded
from one number to another within the same CO?

I have "Complete Choice" on both lines, and I usually forward
the business line to a RingMaster number on the residential line,
but as an experiment I've also tried forwarding to the primary
number, and it works no better.  So it is not because of my
RingMaster service.

The big selling feature of MemoryCall is that it is supposed to
catch ALL calls that you miss, even if you are dialing when the
call comes in, and even if you have a phone service outage.
But now my MemoryCall only works for some calls, not for others.
There is nothing anywhere in the BellSouth sales literature (on
their Web site or anywhere else I've seen) indicating that
MemoryCall might not work for some forwarded calls.

If they can't fix this, I'd be better off with an answering machine.

Does anyone know how they broke it, and whether/how I can get them
to fix it?


Thanks,

Dave Burton  dave48@burtonsys.com.nospam
(remove the ".nospam" to send me email)

------------------------------

From: Luis Vazquez <lvazquez@ems.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Communications System Parametric Modeling Software?
Date: 15 Jul 1999 14:34:13 GMT
Organization: NASA/JSC


Is anyone aware of commercially-available software that can be used to
model an end-to-end communications system? Such a model would allow a
system-level analysis of a proposed system in terms of bit rates, loss
mechanisms, antenna gains and efficiencies, effective power, etc.

The only one I've seen is from Visual Solutions, which it's a little
too design driven for my needs (too constrained to specific design
solutions). I was looking for something intended more for system-level
analysis, rather than detailed component design.

Obviosly, would prefer something that would run on a Windows-PC
platform, but would also like info on anything else available out
there.

Any system engineers out there who can give me a hint on this?


Thanks,

Luis Vazquez
NASA/JSC 

------------------------------

From: Ronald B. Oakes <oakes@cig.mot.com>
Subject: Yet Another "Backhoe" Telecom Outage
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 08:47:27 -0500
Organization: Motorola CIG
Reply-To: oakes@cig.mot.com


The {Albuquerque Journal}, on July 15, 1999, reports that a fiber line
severed by a construction crew disrupted 911 service for a large chunk
of New Mexico -- including much of Sandavol and San Juan counties.

The URL for the online story is:
http://www.abqjournal.com/news/2news07-15.htm

(The {Albuquerque Journal} usually keeps the stories for a few days,
but removes the main page links daily).

I have often stated that the biggest threat to telecommunications
today is the back hoe.


Ron Oakes

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:11:49 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Domain-Name Tales: Beer.com Pays; Excite.com Moves


http://www.thestandard.com/articles/mediagrok_display/0,1185,5531,00.html

Just how screwed up is the system of domains run largely by Network
Solutions? Yesterday, a guy in a Chicago suburb woke up as the
administrator of the Excite.com domain due to a prank, he told Wired
News' Chris Oakes. The lucky recipient, Jim Reardon, said that "the
domain Excite.com is listed in my name and address [and] I have full
control over it ... I could [have directed] their traffic wherever I
want and had control of millions of eyes."

Oakes reported that Network Solutions and Excite headed off the domain
transfer before any damage was done, but Reardon said the lapse
pointed out "the remarkable vulnerability of Network Solutions'
domain-name registration and transfer process."

And while there's always a good story in administrative snafus,
there's also the evergreen tales of domain-name prospectors and
squatters. The Washington Post fronted a David Streitfeld report on
the colorful characters who have cashed in by registering the most
generic domain names years ago. The new angle is that sellers are now
getting chunks of stock options along with cash, making them potential
paper millionaires in the future. 

One guy got $500,000 plus stock for Computer.com, and a farmer in Iowa
demanded stock from Tioga Systems for Support.com. But the topper is
beer connoisseur Bill Fisher, who sold Beer.com to an entrepreneur
(though he retained a 33 percent stake), and told Streitfeld he used
the proceeds to "spend several months in London living with
Australians, and you know their appreciation for the finer stuff. Now
I can buy all of Australia a round."

Excite.com Goes to Illinois
http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/20734.html

$$$.com: On the Web, Simplest Names Can Become Priciest Addresses
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/1999-07/15/029r-071599-idx.html

Domain Registrar Cleans Up Names
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,39153,00.html

What Your Name's Worth in Cyberspace
http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/ctf596.htm


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I believe some other changes are going
on as of this weekend also. I understand the official change in domain
naming is getting started, with the ability now to expand the whole
thing by a billion squared (?) ... did anyone else see that article
on the news site?  I am referring to http://telecom-digest.org/news
PAT]

------------------------------

From: Eli Mantel <mantel@hotmail.com>
Subject: MCI Eliminates Minimum Usage Charge, National Access Fee!
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 05:37:11 GMT


In past months, my MCI account has been subject to a national access
fee (MCI's term for the PIC-C charges imposed on long distance
carriers), as well as a minimum usage charge when my phone charges
were under $5.00.

This month, with charges for phone calls totalling only $2.75, neither
of these charges appeared.

I've contacted MCI customer service about this, and they insist that
the national access fee and minimum usage charges are still being
imposed.

Have any other MCI customers noticed whether they have been subjected
to these charges on their July bills?

------------------------------

Subject: Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intelligence
From: craig@glasswings.com.au (Craig Macbride)
Organization: Nyx Public Access Internet
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 05:15:51 GMT


brettf@netcom.com (Brett Frankenberger) writes:

> Export restrictions won't prevent all international use of
> high-security encrpytion, just as the police can't prevent all crime. 
> But restrictions to reduce the usage of such encrpytion

However, in this instance, the prevention is mainly trivial to get
around, unenforced and useless. I visited a web site a couple of years
ago which had a weak crypto and strong crypto version of some software
which one could download, with a statement saying something to the
effect that the user who clicks the button for "strong" attests that
he/she is a resident of the USA! That sure is going to stop anyone
outside the USA downloading it, isn't it?!

> No.  However, the United States of America *really* believes that it is
> a major source of such technology, and that, by restricting the export
> thereof, it will make it more difficult for organizations outside the
> US to obtain encryption that the US Government cannot break

More difficult, yes, but only marginally so. How hard is it to find
someone in the USA who's prepared to send you a copy of the US-only
version of various encryption software? Has an individual _ever_ been
prosecuted in the USA for emailing such a thing outside the USA?

[Aside: I'm currently logged into a machine in the USA to post this
news article. I can run encryption software on this machine and send
the output anywhere in the world, despite the fact that I am sitting
in Australia. No exporting of the encryption software from the USA is
even necessary in order for me to do strong encryption. Of course, the
characters that I am now typing over a telnet connection might be able to
be intercepted, but could they work out what data I'd actually encrypted
on that remote machine? And, what if I were logging in using ssh instead
of telnet? ]

> and that
> such an increase in difficulty will lead to a higher percentage of
> intercepted traffic being broken by the US Government.

However, most of it will be uninteresting. Sure, the lower security
versions of Netscape will be more common and easier to get hold of.
I don't care too much which version I use, since nothing I do over the
web is _that_ important that it not be breakable to someone who can
intercept the packets. _If_ I cared about it, _then_ I would get
something more secure. The government officials who think that being
able to intercept more encrypted data is, in itself, worthwhile are
probably kidding themselves or trying to kid others.


Let's take a criminal, Fred X.

Scenario 1: Strong crypto is available. Fred X uses it for all web,
email, etc.

Scenario 2: Strong crypto isn't as readily available, so Fred X only
uses plain text for email, weak crypto for web and only uses strong
crypto for criminal discussions.

The government might claim that they can read 99% of Fred X's data
currectly, whereas they'd be able to read 0% of it if strong crypto
was in every comms tool he uses. In reality, they've gained almost
nothing, but they can claim, as governments love to, to be "doing
something" about the "problem" while completely neglecting to mention
how totally ineffectual it is.

Of course, the one thing they have gained is that the probability is
higher that a strongly encrypted message is something they really wish
they could read. :-)

> Encryption technology is much more complex that "educating a scientist,
> then having him write code".  If all these other countries can develop
> rock solid algorithms, how come everyone in the USoA, where it's legal
> for private entities to get their encryption from *anywhere*, get their
> encryption using algorithms developed in the good ole USoA?

This is a totally spurious argument. Most of us use Word Processors
developed in the USA too, but it doesn't mean that they couldn't be
written anywhere else. The USA tends to be central to the computing
world, and crypto is no exception.

> But, yes, most foreign governments/organizations are capable of getting
> code written for themselves; however, the facts are that some of them
> will elect not to avail themselves of the opportunity.

I note that you didn't say individuals. Governments and companies might
feel compelled to comply with US trade restrictions, but individual
users will simply download the software that they wish to use across
the net, whether it is theoretically legal or not for the sender in
the USA to transmit it.

However, what governments _will_ do overseas is mandate strong security
for various applications where privacy is involved. So, when a company
in Australia wants to provide certain sorts of communications involving
data which must, by law, be kept private, they will simply use any available
software which meets the requirements. If no software from the USA meets
the requirements, then the only effect is to reduce the profits of any
US companies which might have liked to provide a solution.


	Craig Macbride <craig@glasswings.com.au>
  --------------------http://amarok.glasswings.com.au/~craig---------------
	"It's a sense of humour like mine, Carla, that makes me proud
		to be ashamed of myself." - Captain Kremmen

------------------------------

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: US Admits Crypto Export Controls are About Signals Intelligence
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:17:43 PST
Organization: Shadownet


brettf@netcom.com (Brett Frankenberger) writes:

> In article <telecom19.207.12@telecom-digest.org>, J.F. Mezei
> <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:

>> Does the United States of America *really* believe that it is the only
>> one of the world capable of building encryption systems that cannot be
>> defeated?  

> No.  However, the United States of America *really* believes that it is
> a major source of such technology, and that, by restricting the export
> thereof, it will make it more difficult for organizations outside the
> US to obtain encryption that the US Government cannot break, and that
> such an increase in difficulty will lead to a higher percentage of
> intercepted traffic being broken by the US Government.  Regardless of
> the export laws, there will always be some intercepted traffic that the
> US Government can break, and some intercepted traffic that they cannot. 
> The export law is all about favorably adjusting the balance between
> those two categories of traffic.

Alas, this is starting to blow up in the government's face. A couple
years back one of the bigger software companies assigned all work on
encryption to a branch *outside* the US (in Japan, as I recall). That
branch came up with a much better encryption algorithm and since it was
developed *outside* the US, the company isn't subject to export
restrictions on it.

That sort of thing is why the export restrictions are so *stupid*. They
result in market forces *pushing* the development out of the US, thus
losing us our lead.

> Encryption technology is much more complex that "educating a scientist,
> then having him write code".  If all these other countries can develop
> rock solid algorithms, how come everyone in the USoA, where it's legal
> for private entities to get their encryption from *anywhere*, get their
> encryption using algorithms developed in the good ole USoA?  (For
> example: a 128-bit key isn't very good if the random number generator
> that picks the key isn't very random.  Code developed overseas is
> unlikely to be as robust as the constantly hacked-at and checked-out
> code written in the USoA.)

Even so, my example above shows that the ends result *will* be to move
encryption work offshore, so the companies can sell to the *much*
larger market.

> restricted to targets that would (a) like to use lots-o-bits encryption
> and (b) aren't smart enough, or willing to spend the time, to write
> their own code or find a non-US company to sell them an executable.

Or just smuggle a copy of the US software out of the country. Say, by
emailing it from a throwaway account in the US.


Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com	<--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com	<--last resort

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1999 22:55:49 -0400
From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine)
Subject: Re: Busiest Public Telephone
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA


> Someone has asked me what the world's busiest phone booth or public
> phone is ... which would be an intriguing bit of trivia, but I don't
> know the answer.  I guess it would have to be in an area with high
> population density and low telephone penetration.  Has anyone ever run
> across this statistic?

I've heard claims that it's one of the phones in the LIRR (commuter
train) concourse at Penn Station in New York City.

It makes sense, there's an enormous amount of passenger traffic there
and a lot of people calling home to say what train they'll be on or
ask if they should get groceries on the way back from the station.


John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869
johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, 
Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail

------------------------------

From: Andrew Green <acg@datalogics.com>
Subject: Re: Busiest Public Telephone
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:13:53 -0500


Bram Dov Abramson babramson@telegeography.com <mailto:babramson@
telegeography.com>  writes:

> Someone has asked me what the world's busiest phone booth
> or public phone is ... [...] I guess it would have to be in an area
> with high population density and low telephone penetration.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that one of the busiest payphone
locations was one located at the top of a particular tall building,
such as the Empire State Building in New York or Sears Tower or
Hancock building in Chicago, on the observation deck. Seems that all
the tourists would line up to call friends and relatives for a "Guess
where I'm calling from" phone call. Apparently the coin boxes had to
be emptied several times a day (at least in the days before calling
cards). 


Andrew C. Green (312) 853-8331 Datalogics, Inc.  
email: acg@datalogics.com <mailto:acg@datalogics.com>
101 N. Wacker, Ste. 1800 http://www.datalogics.com 
<http://www.datalogics.com>
Chicago, IL 60606-7301 Fax: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

From: Koos van den Hout <koos@kzdoos.xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: Public Phones Number Listing
Date: 15 Jul 1999 19:28:33 GMT
Organization: Koos van den Hout


peng1234@singnet.com.sg wrote:

> Just wondering, is there any way posiible for one to get the telephone
> number of public phones without calling the exchange or
> telecommunications company (telco) ?

Depending on the country looking on the phone helps. And there are some
web sites on this subject:

http://www.sorabji.com/livewire/payphones/faq/   The Payphone Project
http://www.irational.org/cybercafe/pubtel/pubtel.html Cybercafe Net Art


Koos van den Hout,                 PGP key via keyservers
koos@kzdoos.xs4all.nl (Home)
koos@pizza.hvu.nl (Work)
http://web.cetis.hvu.nl/~koos/

------------------------------

From: David A. Jensen <david.jensen@teldta.com>
Subject: Bible Sales Beyond Grave Spark UK Police Probe
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:45:42 -0500


The more things change ...
 
LONDON, July 14 - British police are investigating a "Christian
Bookshop" that is sending bills to dead people for bibles, trading
standards officers said on Wednesday.

Chris Tinley, a trading standards manager in southern England, said
the company had sent invoices to people who had recently died,
demanding payment for bibles and a book called "Jesus of the Holy
Land".

"It's a scam. There is no evidence of an order being placed. There is
no evidence of books being delivered," Tinley told Reuters.

The outstanding debt was put at 24.98 pounds ($38.93), accompanied by
a demand to the estates of the dead for prompt payment.


David Jensen

[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: If you want to run a scam, a religion
is always a good place to start. Mr. L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of
the Church of Scientology made that quite clear. For years a writer
of science fiction books, Mr. Hubbard gave a speech in 1949 at a
convention and he noted there was not much money to be made in writing
book. "If you really want to make money," he noted, "what you do is
start a religion ..."  and shortly thereafter he took his own advice,
and you know the rest of the story.   PAT]

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #219
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Fri Jul 16 03:49:07 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA03695;
	Fri, 16 Jul 1999 03:49:07 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 03:49:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907160749.DAA03695@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #220

TELECOM Digest     Fri, 16 Jul 99 03:49:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 220

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    SNET Cellular/Linx Overcharging For Roaming Calls on BAMS (Douglas Reuben)
    Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems (Kevin DeMartino)
    Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems (LARB0)
    Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems (Joshua M.K. Masur)
    Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems (Anthony Argyriou)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (John David Galt)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (lpovirk@my-deja.com)
    Re: Public Phones Number Listing (David Leibold)
    Re: Public Phones Number Listing (Eli Mantel)
    Re: 1800SKYTEL2 Blocked in Las Vegas (Terry Kennedy)
    Re: 1800SKYTEL2 Blocked in Las Vegas (Danny Burstein)
    Re: 1800SKYTEL2 Blocked in Las Vegas (Linc Madison)
    Re: Split For 760 Area Code in California (Matthew Black)
    Re: Seeking History of Cellular Phones (Marcus Akesson)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: dreuben@tiac.net (Douglas Reuben)
Subject: SNET Cellular/Linx Overcharging fFr Roaming Calls on BAMS
Date: 16 Jul 1999 03:53:11 GMT
Organization: Interpage Network Svcs. / www.interpage.net/+1 (617) 696-8000


For about the past five months, after reviewing our Southern New
England Telephone "Lynx" Cellular bill (system 00008), I noticed a
series of 1 minute calls in the roaming section, all incoming, and all
lacking any toll delivery charge (eg, the toll charge which SNET adds
on to your bill to "cover" their costs of transporting the call to the
roaming market).

For the first few months I just ignored it and figured they were
answered and that the toll charges will appear on the next
statement. However, they never did, yet this kept on happening, ie,
one-minute incoming roam calls which were never answered were still
being billed roaming airtime. I even did some tests by taking the SNET
phone into the Bell Atlantic Boston (00028) market and made some calls
which rang two or three times to see how they would be billed the next
month, and indeed, they all showed up as one-minute roaming calls but
with no toll delivery charge.

So on May 22, 1999, after talking to a few reps the week before and
getting nowhere, I finally escalated this to a manager, Patricia
Hamilton, who said she would "thoroughly" look into it and in the
meantime issue credits for the roam calls in BAMS markets which were
not answered.

In June, we get the bill, and there are still roam charges for
unanswered calls in BAMS markets. Once again, I get on the phone, wait
30 minutes to talk to a manager, and finally speak to Lynn who
(supposedly after all the research that Patricia had done) says "Well,
this isn't our problem, it's Bell Atlantic's, and there really is
nothing we can do about it". After I explained to her that SNET is
acting as an agent for BAMS and as SNET represented to us that there
would be no such charges when we renewed our contract a few months
before (and indeed, this never happened until a few months ago), it
was incumbent upon them to remedy the problem with BAMS and/or however
else is necessary. She said she would look into it ... of course she
never got back to us.

Then, this past Monday, 7/12/99, our office manager calls them up to
get some resolution to the problem, and is told they can't find Lynn,
but that some other un-named would call us back, which they did not.

Finally, today, 7/15/99, I called SNET myself and told them "Either
you give me the name of the person who is working on this case now or
I will cancel the account and expect a credit for our annual payment
in advance." After 35 minutes on hold, Patty, the customer service rep
I was speaking with, told me she had JUST given the issue to Kerrie in
Technical Support, and I could call her to follow up on these issues.

We'll see how it goes now that I have the name of the person actually
trying to resolve the matter, but if you are a SNET Lynx customer who
roams into Bell Atlantic's B-side properties (basically any area
adjacent to CT and Western Mass), check you bills to see if there are
any 1-minute incoming calls with no toll delivery charge. If so, these
may very well be .

I'll post updates as (if?) progress is made on this issue.

(This post and updated SID list are also available at www.wirelessnotes.org)


Regards,

Doug Reuben / Interpage(TM) Network Services Inc. / www.interpage.net

dsr1@interpage.net
+1 (617) 696-8000

------------------------------

From: Kevin DeMartino <KDeMartino@drc.com>
Subject: RE: DSL vs Cable Modems
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:23:23 -0400


Lauren Weinstein wrote in V19 #217:

> A recent message in this Digest quoted a DSL advocate
> as suggesting that the service wouldn't "degrade" as more
> subscribers in a neighborhood joined up, "unlike cable modems."
> Well, yah, the DSL circuit *itself* won't degrade -- it's simply a
> point-to- point local loop transmission technology.  However, most
> inexpensive DSL circuits are intensively concentrated at the circuit
> backhauls, and that's where the real bottlenecks typically exist ...    
> Just because you have 256K or 1M, or whatever
> capability, on that low monthly cost DSL wire running between your
> location and a rack down at the local telco, doesn't mean you'll be
> getting that rate to or from your ISP, at any given time.  You'll
> almost certainly be sharing those backhaul circuits with lots of other
> users.   

It is clear that in the next few years cable modems will provide
subscribers with much higher data rates than digital subscriber line
(DSL) techniques.  But what about the future?

A single fiber between a telephone central office and an ISP point of
presence (POP) (e.g., at a toll office) can carry all the traffic on
thousands of DSL lines, with capacity to spare. This makes it feasible
to upgrade interoffice trunks to handle DSL traffic without sharing
backhaul channels. With this upgrade, the total downstream capacity
provided by asymmetric DSL (ADSL) will exceed the capacity that can be
provided via cable modems. However, until the utilization of the cable
system starts to approach the system capacity, this theoretical
advantage won't mean very much.

I expect that ADSL will become much more economically viable several
years down the road when video-on-demand and full motion video on the
WWW become more available.  At this point ADSL may overtake cable
modems.

In a typical cable TV system (see IEEE Spectrum May 1999), a fiber
feeder cable is connected to multiple coax distribution cables, each
of which is connected to several hundred subscribers. A data
communications capacity of typically 10-30 Mb/s is shared among these
subscribers.  ADSL can support downstream data rates greater than 1.5
Mb/s over most twisted pair subscriber lines, and the total downstream
capacity provided to several hundred subscribers could be in excess of
1 Gb/s. ADSL could support video-on-demand to a large percentage of
these subscribers, whereas this cable system could not.

The ADSL capacity will be greatly increased when the telcos replace
feeder cables containing hundreds of twisted pairs with fiber. The
cable companies could trump this move by replacing coax distribution
cables with fiber. Who is going to win, the telcos or the cable
companies? Probably a combination of the two, as the networks
converge.


Kevin DeMartino
Dynamics Research Corporation

------------------------------

From: larb0@aol.com (LARB0)
Date: 15 Jul 1999 12:24:12 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems


> doesn't mean you'll be getting that rate to or from your ISP, at any
> given time.  You'll almost certainly be sharing those backhaul
> circuits with lots of other users.

I'm far from expert, but won't cable modems encounter the same
backhaul/ISP congestion once outside of the loop? Isn't this sort of a
double whammy for cable modems? Degradation in the loop side as well
as congestion on network?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:52:14 -0700
Subject: Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems
From: Joshua M.K. Masur <jmkm@ispchannel.com>


As far as "degradation" -- i.e., demand effects on shared IP bandwidth
 -- not all cable modem systems work the same way.  Here in Palo Alto,
cable modem service via ISP Channel allocates dedicated bandwidth
(starting at 500kbps downstream/100kbps up) back to the head end,
rather than shared bandwidth at some theoretical higher speed.  Given
the local cable operation's pending sale to AT&T, of course, this is
likely to change.

As a former network administrator, though, it seems to me that the
problem is not shared vs. dedicated bandwidth, each of which has its
benefits and disadvantages.  In any case, any theoretical maximum is
limited by any number of factors external to the network topology --
including the speed of the connection from the head end to backbone,
how many such connections there are, and with which backbones they
connect.  With dedicated bandwidth, you're guaranteed a certain
throughput from head end to local node, but that comes in exchange for
a comparatively low cap on throughput.  With shared bandwidth, the
real-world limiting factor is not the theoretical maximum network
speed, but how many other users are working with it at the same
instant.

In either case, the problem comes when the operator skimps or the
demand increases faster than capacity, not because the bandwidth is
shared or dedicated.  And unfortunately, that tends to be a constant.

                                             jmkm@ispchannel.com  e-mail
JOSHUA M.K. MASUR                http://www.columbia.edu/~jmm93/  Julia
Columbia Law School '99            http://www.echonyc.com/~jmkm/  homepage
                         10 Roosevelt Cir Palo Alto CA 94306 USA  mail
                                                    650.493.3499  phone

------------------------------

From: anthony@alphageo.com (Anthony Argyriou)
Subject: Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:53:41 GMT
Organization: Alpha Geotechnical
Reply-To: anthony@alphageo.com


lauren@vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein) wrote:

> In other words, just because you have 256K or 1M, or whatever
> capability, on that low monthly cost DSL wire running between your
> location and a rack down at the local telco, doesn't mean you'll be
> getting that rate to or from your ISP, at any given time.  You'll
> almost certainly be sharing those backhaul circuits with lots of other
> users.  Unlike conventional DS1/T1 circuits (which are often now
> delivered using HDSL loops) that are generally provisioned as
> dedicated channel bandwidth all the way to the ISP POP, the cheap DSL
> services will typically put many more users on a given subnetwork
> backhaul, so the impact of other users on throughput can be very real.
> This should not come as a surprise, however -- what did you expect for
> $20 or $50/month?

My ISP, DNAI (www.dnai.com) makes this relatively clear, and sells
"residential" and "business" DSL. The web page for their residential
service states that it is not subject to the performance guarantees of
the (more expensive) business service, and that certain other services
(IDSL for people too far away for regular DSL) are not available.


Anthony Argyriou

------------------------------

From: John David Galt <John_David_Galt@acm.org>
Organization: Diogenes the Cynic Hot-Tubbing Society
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 07:22:42 GMT


> I don't believe that Anonymous Call Rejection has been tariffed for
> offer in California at all, although SBC/Pac Bell certainly wants to
> have it yesterday-if-not-sooner.  The 60% to 80% are estimates of the
> lines that by default show up as "private."

This was true until about March.  ACR is now being aggressively
marketed here (Sacramento).

> An estimated 60% of residential lines are unlisted, and the vast
> majority of unlisted lines have elected default blocking.  About
> half of listed lines have also elected default blocking.

> As a result, it would be rather foolish to have ACR in California.
> You might as well just cancel your phone service, because about the
> only calls that will get through to you are telemarketers.

I have caller ID, and I receive ID on most calls, both from businesses
and individuals.  (When I get one labeled Anonymous I have taken to
answering with "Hi [name]!" because I know only one person who has line
blocking.)  However, most of the marketing calls are "Out of area",
along with maybe 25% of the business calls I do want; so Linc is right,
ACR would not be that useful, at least to me.


John David Galt

------------------------------

From: lpovirk@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 23:22:59 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


I can't imagine why anyone would ACCEPT calls from anyone who
expressly refuses to reveal their identity.


Larry
Richmond, VA


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I would agree with you in residential
calls. If I -- a private party -- call you, also a private party and
expressly conceal myself, you have every right to be annoyed and to
refuse the call. If a private party calls into a business, I am not
so sure it is the same situation. Then we have scenarios as described
here in the past where someone like a doctor wishes to return a call
to a patient, but the doctor is not in his usual office location and
the host at the place where the call is being placed does not wish to
have their telephone number on record. I do think businesses should
be expressly forbidden to conceal their phone number; in fact I think
*67 should be disabled on their telephones so they had no choice in
the matter. But there are a lot of grey areas where I suppose with-
holding the phone number could be considered proper. And what do you
do in cases of people who wish to speak in confidence with telephone
counseling services, etc?   PAT]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:06:37 EDT
From: David Leibold <aa070@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Public Phones Number Listing


peng1234@singnet.com.sg writes:

> Just wondering, is there any way posiible for one to get the telephone
> number of public phones without calling the exchange or
> telecommunications company (telco) ?

> TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: There was a web site I found once
> which had lists of numbers for pay phones all over the USA. That

Try http://www.payphone-directory.org

It's not complete (yet) but it's still useful to have.

------------------------------

From: Eli Mantel <mantel@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Public Phones Number Listing
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 06:49:49 GMT


Lucas wrote:

> ... is there any way posiible for one to get
> the telephone number of public phones ...

There are a couple of web sites that provide listings of pay phones.
These sites list a tiny fraction of the total pay phones in the U.S.,
but you're invited to add your own.

Here are the sites I know about:

Payphone Project: http://www.sorabji.com/livewire/payphones/

Pay Phone Directory:  http://www.payphone-directory.org/

------------------------------

From: Terry Kennedy <terry@spcunb.spc.edu>
Subject: Re: 1800SKYTEL2 Blocked in Las Vegas
Organization: St. Peter's College, US
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 07:01:06 GMT


Flor Riklef <rik.flor@abbott.com> writes:

> I just got back from the Black Hat Briefings/DefCon in Las Vegas and
> noticed an interesting problem.

> I stayed at the Venetian, which has Sprint payphones.  The phones
> apparently block 1-800-SKYTEL2, which is used with my SkyTel two-way
> pager.

> Several times my fiancee attempted to page me from a Venetian
> payphone, only to get a "This call cannot be connected at this time".

  Skytel's general-access numbers haven't been dialable from payphones
since November, 1997. This is due to the 1996's Telecom Act requiring
payphone owners to be compensated for these calls.

  Skytel's info on this can be found at: 

  http://www.skytel.com/skytel.nsf/customer/fcc.html

	Terry Kennedy		  Operations Manager, Academic Computing
	terry@spcvxa.spc.edu	  St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA
        +1 201 915 9381 (voice)   +1 201 435-3662 (FAX)

------------------------------

From: dannyb@panix.com (Danny Burstein)
Subject: Re: 1800SKYTEL2 Blocked in Las Vegas
Date: 16 Jul 1999 03:00:22 -0400


In <telecom19.217.5@telecom-digest.org> Flor Riklef
<rik.flor@abbott.com> writes:

> I stayed at the Venetian, which has Sprint payphones.  The phones
> apparently block 1-800-SKYTEL2, which is used with my SkyTel two-way
> pager.

> Several times my fiancee attempted to page me from a Venetian
> payphone, only to get a "This call cannot be connected at this time".

About a year ago, after the FCC decision that added a $0.28 nominal
fee to "1-800/888/877" calls from payphones, Skytell announced that
they would *block* such calls to their general purpose toll-free
number. They offered two alternatives, which were clearly listed on
their bill inserts. Oh, and on their webpage as well:

	a) you could call their "regular" number, which, being in St.
Louis, would usually be long distance (but not too outrageous if you
used a good prepaid calling card or other alternative)

		or

	b) you could pay skytell the extra monthly fee for a
"personal" 1-800/888/877 number. This way, they could determine who
was calling and pass on the additional cost to you.

(as a reminder: the FCC decided that coin phone operators "deserved"
compensation when making these toll-free calls. The usual way this is
done [when things work correctly ...] is that the carrier kicks back a
nominal $0.28 to the owner of the payphone whenever such a call is
made from it.  Let's please NOT get into the repeated flamefest about
this ... Suffice to say that many -- although certainly not all --
1-800/888/877 services proceeded to block calls from payphones since
they didn't want to get socked with these charges). 


Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
		     dannyb@panix.com 
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:51:02 -0700
From: LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com (Linc Madison)
Subject: Re: 1800SKYTEL2 Blocked in Las Vegas
Organization: LincMad Consulting


In article <telecom19.217.5@telecom-digest.org>, Flor Riklef
<rik.flor@abbott.com> wrote:

> I just got back from the Black Hat Briefings/DefCon in Las Vegas and
> noticed an interesting problem.

> I stayed at the Venetian, which has Sprint payphones.  The phones
> apparently block 1-800-SKYTEL2, which is used with my SkyTel two-way
> pager.

> Several times my fiancee attempted to page me from a Venetian
> payphone, only to get a "This call cannot be connected at this time".

> Anyone else face a similiar problem?  Is it very common to block 800
> numbers like this?

You should find that particular number blocked from ALL payphones in
the United States, at the request of SkyTel.

SkyTel, as the owner of the 800 number, is billed about 25 cents by
the payphone owner for completing each call.  Unless you have set up
your own 800/888/877 number for your specific pager, SkyTel has no
effective way to bill you for the surcharge.  (They *could* let the
call complete and then only complete the page request if you have
agreed to pay the surcharge, but then they eat the surcharge on all
incomplete paging requests.)

If you contact SkyTel, they will give you an ordinary long-distance
number (in Mississippi, if memory serves) that you can use to call
your pager from a payphone.

It is precisely this issue that led me to recommend to the FCC that
they use a per-minute charge rather than a fixed per-call charge for
payphone compensation, or at least that the per-call charge should
be no more than five cents, since that is a reasonable profit "floor"
on a call that costs the payphone owner nothing in marginal costs
and makes pretty minimal use of the equipment.


** Do not send me unsolicited commercial e-mail spam of any kind **
Linc Madison  *  San Francisco, California  *   Telecom@LincMad-com
URL:< http://www.lincmad.com > * North American Area Codes & Splits
>> NOTE: replies sent to <Telecom@LincMad-com> will be read sooner!

------------------------------

From: black@csulb.edu (Matthew Black)
Subject: Re: Split For 760 Area Code in California
Date: 15 Jul 1999 23:28:56 GMT


In article <telecom19.215.1@telecom-digest.org>,  LincMad001@
telecom-digest.zzn.com says ...

[original message edited for brevity --matt 990713]

> I'm rather surprised at the decision to give the new code to the more
> urban part of 760.  In particular, if the region continues its
> opposition to overlays, in six years you'll have people who changed
> from 213 to 714 to 619 to 760 to (new), and who will be facing yet
> another change.

Seems only fair to me.  Should those communities creating excessive
demand for new numbers bear the brunt of area code splits?  When 310
was split a few years ago, the CPUC gave each city one vote (out of
approximately 20) for who got to keep 310 and who was given 562.  The
city of Long Beach, with a population of 400,000, had just as much say
so as Lomita with just a few thousand.  Guess who won out?  Malibu,
Santa Monica, and Manhattan Beach.  It's poetic justice that they now
require another split whereas 562 has sufficient numbers until about
2006.  I feel those communities with cell phones and pagers should 
get the new area codes first.  IMHO, I feel the 760 plan is most
justified.


  -----------------------------(c) 1999 Matthew Black, all rights reserved--
matthew black                   | Opinions expressed herein belong to me and
network & systems specialist    | may not reflect those of my employer
california state university     | 
network services SSA-180E       |             e-mail: black at csulb dot edu
1250 bellflower boulevard       |   PGP fingerprint: 6D 14 36 ED 5F 34 C4 B3
long beach, ca 90840            |                    E9 1E F3 CB E7 65 EE BC

------------------------------

From: marcus.akesson@no_spam_please.home.se (Marcus Akesson)
Subject: Re: Seeking History of Cellular Phones
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:57:39 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology


On Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:55:14 -0700, Agus Surono <agus@majalah.
gramedia.com> wrote:

> Please help me, where I can find sites of history of cellular phone?
> Thank you.

The Lauhrn system was the first fully automatic mobile telephone
system in the world, set up in Stockholm in 1951. It went in to public
service in 1956.

There is more at: 

http://www.telemuseum.se/english/english.html

and more specifically:

http://www.telemuseum.se/historia/mobtel/mobteleng.html


More modern information about GSM and its history:

http://kbs.cs.tu-berlin.de/~jutta/gsm/js-intro.html

Hope this helps!


Marcus

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #220
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Fri Jul 16 04:19:24 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA04861;
	Fri, 16 Jul 1999 04:19:24 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 04:19:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907160819.EAA04861@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #221

TELECOM Digest     Fri, 16 Jul 99 04:19:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 221

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: Hazards of the Young and Mobile - Handheld Powers (John David Galt)
    Re: Hazards of the Young and Mobile - Handheld Powers (David Clayton)
    Re: 1800SKYTEL2 Blocked in Las Vegas (Stanley Cline)
    Re: 1800SKYTEL2 Blocked in Las Vegas (James H. Cloos Jr.)
    Significance of Proposed California Area Code Legislation (Steve Riner)
    Re: Lower-Priced Always-on DSL (David Temkin)
    Re: Rationale For Class Action Suits (was Re: Death of GSM) (Jack Dominey)
    CA: Landmark Decision Limiting New Codes; Allows Technology (Eric Morson)
    Re: CA: Landmark Decision Limiting New Codes; Allows Technology (A Kerman)
    Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts (Leonard Erickson)
    Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts (Adam H. Kerman)
    Re: Selective Call Screening (danielzr@netzero.net)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (David Clayton)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Linc Madison)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John David Galt <John_David_Galt@acm.org>
Organization: Diogenes the Cynic Hot-Tubbing Society
Subject: Re: Hazards of the Young and Mobile - Handheld Powers
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 07:37:57 GMT


Linc Madison wrote:


> That brings up an interesting question.  We've all seen the warning
> signs advising pacemaker users to avoid places where microwave ovens
> are in use because the small amount of microwave radiation leakage
> from the oven could adversely affect the operation of the pacemaker.

> How does the power level of a cellular/PCS phone operating normally
> compare with the amount of radiation leakage one might find near a
> microwave oven?  Worse case, what if the phone is in someone's front
> shirt pocket, or otherwise in very close proximity to the pacemaker?

Cell phones are limited by law to (I believe) 5 watts output power.

Microwave ovens are typically in the 500 to 1500 watt range.  (Most
home units are 500 to 1000; the big ones are mostly in stores and
vending installations, where long waiting time means fewer sales.)

What fraction of that power is likely to actually leak out and reach
someone's pacemaker, I don't know.  But I'd be surprised if 5 watts
were enough to hurt a pacemaker.  If you have a large color monitor,
you're probably getting more than that from the cathode-ray in the
picture tube.  (Do they tell pacemaker users to avoid color TVs and
computer screens?)


John David Galt

------------------------------

From: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au (David Clayton)
Subject: Re: Hazards of the Young and Mobile - Handheld Powers
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:01:33 GMT
Organization: Customer of Connect.com.au Pty. Ltd.
Reply-To: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au


LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com (Linc Madison) contributed the
following:

> But worrying about the spark from a cell phone is silly beyond words,
> most especially singling out cellular phones among all the other
> miscellaneous electronic devices.

And how many "other miscellaneous electronic devices" that transmit RF
have the potential to be close to the fumes coming out of your tank as
you fill it up at the pump?


Regards, 

David Clayton, e-mail: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

Dilbert's words of wisdom #18: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

------------------------------

From: sc1@roamer1.org (Stanley Cline)
Subject: Re: 1800SKYTEL2 Blocked in Las Vegas
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:12:22 GMT
Organization: by area code and prefix (NPA-NXX)
Reply-To: sc1@roamer1.org


On Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:40:36 -0500, Flor Riklef <rik.flor@abbott.com>
wrote:

> I just got back from the Black Hat Briefings/DefCon in Las Vegas and
> noticed an interesting problem.

> I stayed at the Venetian, which has Sprint payphones.  The phones
> apparently block 1-800-SKYTEL2, which is used with my SkyTel two-way
> pager.

It's SkyTel, *not* Sprint or the payphones ...

http://cocot.home.mindspring.com/#news-sky
http://www.skytel.com -> Customer Service Lounge -> Pay Phone Users


SC

------------------------------

From: James H. Cloos Jr. <cloos@jhcloos.com>
Subject: Re: 1800SKYTEL2 Blocked in Las Vegas
Date: 15 Jul 1999 11:40:15 -0500
Organization: Illuminati Online



Flor Riklef <rik.flor@abbott.com> writes:

> I stayed at the Venetian, which has Sprint payphones.  The
> phones apparently block 1-800-SKYTEL2, which is used with my
> SkyTel two-way pager.

Actually, I beleive it is the other way around.  IIRC -- it has been a
couple of years since I last had a SkyTel pager -- when the rule took
effect forcing toll-free accounts to pay payphone operators for calls
originating on the payphones, SkyTel blocked all payphone access to
their non-DID pager numbers.  Those accounts w/ DID access can still
be reached from payphones; the fees are passed on to the client.

Or at least that is how I remember it.  I'm sure someone from SkyTel
will correct me if I am wrong ...


James H. Cloos, Jr.  <http://www.jhcloos.com/cloos/public_key> 1024D/ED7DAEA6 
<cloos@jhcloos.com>     E9E9 F828 61A4 6EA9 0F2B  63E7 997A 9F17 ED7D AEA6
        Save Trees:  Get E-Gold! <http://www.jhcloos.com/go?e-gold>

------------------------------

From: Steve Riner <riner@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Significance of Proposed California Area Code Legislation
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:52:23 -0500
Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc.


As reported on <www.area-code.com> today, the California legislature
is attempting to enact legislation that would, 1) require phone
numbers to be allocated by 1000 rather than 10,000 number blocks; 2)
prohibit additional area code overlays (thus stopping the contentious
310/424 overlay); and 3) require that wireless and fax phone lines be
moved to a different area code than other land lines (thus,
presumably, freeing up enough exchanges to prevent the need for
further area code splits or overlays). It has passed an Assembly
committee so far.  If enacted by the Legislature, this would put
California in direct conflict with the FCC regulation prohibiting area
code divisions by service type. Very similar to the Chicagoland revolt
against the 847 overlay.

Considering that 10-digit dialing will probably be standard nationwide
within 5 years, this seems like a last gasp effort for those who think
that 7-digit dialing can be preserved forever.  (On a side note,
probably a topic discussed here before, why are subscribers in some
overlay areas required to dial 1+ the phone number, rather than the
10-digit NXX-NXX-XXXX number, for a local call?)  -- Steve Riner
Columbia Heights MN

(In 612, but probably soon to be moved to 952 as Minnesota begins
micro-splits a la Chicago)

------------------------------

From: David Temkin <davetNOSPAM@bnpcn.com>
Subject: Re: Lower-Priced Always-on DSL
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:28:20 -0400
Organization: Cooper Neff


I don't mean to flame, but before ANYONE chooses Flashcom as their DSL
provider, I suggest you check out comp.dcom.xdsl .  Flashcom has grown
a bit too large for it's own good too fast -- and the only thing that
keeps them afloat is the fact that Covad is willing to cover up their
mistakes (the CLEC who provides the physical line in co-op with Bell).
Their customer service and tech support is terrible, so if you don't
know what you're doing with DSL and IP networking, I'd suggest going
with someone else in your local area.  Check out http://www.covad.com
 -- plug in your address, and they'll give you a list of local ISP's who
provide DSL service in your area - you'll probably be suprised by what
you find.


Dave Temkin

Paul Robinson wrote:

> http://www.flashcom.com also at 1-877-Flashcom says they have DSL for
> as low as $49.95 a month (this is for one to three users.)  Map shows
> them available in the Washington, DC area (it's a national map on
> their website so the specific area is hard to tell).

------------------------------

From: look@my.sig (Jack Dominey)
Subject: Re: Rationale For Class Action Suits (was Re: Death of GSM)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 02:49:19 GMT
Organization: The Maynard G. Krebs Memorial Work(!?)station
Reply-To: look@my.sig


In <telecom19.192.2@telecom-digest.org>, dannyb@panix.com (Danny
Burstein) wrote:

> It's kind of like spammers ... [big telco] has almost no expenses in
> sending these out, hence no incentive to not do it ...

Except, as you have pointed out, the immense cost of being caught.
The cost of litigation and fines could well be vastly outweighed by
the loss of goodwill and reputation.

> In fact, various people (among them the editor of Analog) have
> suggested that many companies have a deliberate policy of this sort,
> where they 'accidentally' send out excess bills to pre-designated
> demographic groups (i.e. the classic "little old lady" would get one,
> but they _won't_ send one to a CPA ...), and factor in their rate of
> return.

It's a nice story, but it doesn't wash, at least not for large
organizations.  The first and biggest problem, in a conspiracy to
commit fraud as described above, is maintaining secrecy.  The
organization has to ensure that nobody blows the whistle.  The people
involved wouldn't want their names on any incriminating evidence.  And
think of the amount and kind of computer system work that would be
necessary to enable this fraudulent billing!  Feature requests,
prototypes, testing, system reviews - an immense volume of records
gets generated.  And practically no individual gets a really
substantial reward.  I don't know about you, but I'm not going to risk
my job (and possible fines and jail time) against maybe a 10% bonus
because the company exceeded revenue targets.

Finally, any company that engages in this kind of unethical behavior
cannot realistically expect ethical behavior from its employees.  The
relatively modest potential gains from improper billing would be more
than offset by the cost of trying to prevent employee theft and fraud
and the losses when the prevention fails.

 
Jack Dominey                 "Apparently I'm insane.
domineys(at)mindspring.com       But I'm one of the happy kinds!"

------------------------------

From: Eric@AreaCode-Info.com (Eric Morson)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:26:37 -0400
Subject: CA: Landmark Decision Limiting New Codes; Allows Technology


Yes, progressive Californians have done it. They are now in opposition
of the FCC's ruling prohibiting service/technology specific area
codes.  The 424 overlay has been recinded, and 818 is now in question
as may be the other overlays prevoiusly announced.

See the article at:

http://AreaCode-Info.com/headline/1999/ca990715.htm


Eric B. Morson
Co-Webmaster
AreaCode-Info.com

EMail: Eric@AreaCode-Info.com

------------------------------

From: Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.chinet.com>
Subject: Re: CA: Landmark Decision Limiting New Codes; Allows Technology
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:32:49 -0500
Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server


> Yes, progressive Californians have done it. They are now in opposition
> of the FCC's ruling prohibiting service/technology specific area codes.

The article refers to proposed legislation that would put certain
devices including fax machines and modems into another area code. Now
we've had discussions before over the difficulty of preventing such
devices from using phone numbers for POTS given that they can be
plugged in and used anywhere (except behind certain PBXs).

However, another device mentioned was ATMs (I assume machines for
using debit cards, not the communications protocol).

That brings up a question I've long had: Why should certain telephone
lines have numbers at all if they'll never receive incoming voice
calls? With the software that runs certain telephone switches today,
is it possible to address these lines without a telephone number? Or
does this only apply to certain types of switches? If so, are lines in
hunt groups and outgoing trunks also candidates to have phone numbers
removed? Are there lines that have no associated phone numbers today?

------------------------------

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:04:19 PST
Organization: Shadownet


Fred Goodwin <goodwin@tri.sbc.com> writes:

>> If they get any of the information from anyone else's site -- any of
>> it -- as I read the bill they infringe.  That's a crock.

> If that were true, you'd be right:

>     ... no person shall be restricted from extracting or using
>     information for nonprofit educational, scientific, or research
>     purposes in a manner that does not harm directly the actual 
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  
>     market for the product or service ... 
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Which means that because I use info from tables in the front of the
phone book, and from the utilized/available files at nanpa.com *and*
info from the NNAG files from TRA, TRA or the phone company or Lockheed
can enjoin me from sharing my lists of which exchanges are "local"
because it would hurt their market for a service to *sell* that info.

Please note that there is *no* way to collect this info *without*
accessing databases. And that it's damned hard to collect *without*
spending several hundred dollars a year for the LERG database. Yet, in
spite of the fact that this info is *necessary* to keeping modern phone
systems operating (and vital to setting up things like PBX systems)
they would be able to extort any price they feel like for the data.

I just don't see *why* certain types of data *should* get this sort of
protection. That fact that it *can* be sold doesn't mean that it
*should* be. 


Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com	<--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com	<--last resort

------------------------------

From: Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.chinet.com>
Subject: Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1999 17:47:50 -0500
Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server


> In article <telecom19.216.3@telecom-digest.org> was written:

> BTW, do you know who assigns ISSN numbers?

In the US, National Serials Data Program of the Library of Congress.

In Canada,

   Ms. Susan Pickett
   Director
   ISSN Canada
   National Library of Canada
   Acquisitions and Bibliographic
   Services Branch
   395 Wellington Street
   Ottawa, Ontario K1A ON4
   TEL : +1-819-994 6895
   FAX : +1-819-997 6209
   E-MAIL : issn@nlc-bnc.ca
   WEB PAGE / PAGE SUR LA TOILE :
   http://www.nlc-bnc.ca/issn

Are you a magazine publisher?

By the way, ISSNs are meant to be used on anything published as a
serial (a publication with a sequential order meant to be continued
indefinitely) in any media, paper or electronic.

TELECOM Digest could have one.

------------------------------

From: danielzr@netzero.net
Subject: Re: Selective Call Screening
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 01:23:15 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


Take a look at:

http://www.cpscom.com/gprod/icwm.htm

This does alot of what you're asking for (it's also a call waiting box).

In article <telecom19.200.3@telecom-digest.org>, Peter_Simpson@
ne.3com.com wrote: 

> I think there may be an opportunity for a product here.

> One that would sit between your phone and your telephone line and 
> allow you to control who gets to make your phone ring.

------------------------------

From: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au (David Clayton)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:01:33 GMT
Organization: Customer of Connect.com.au Pty. Ltd.
Reply-To: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au


J.F. Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> contributed the following:

> Note that some countries such as Australia have further subdivided
> their name space.

> for instance: WWW.QANTAS.COM.AU (or is it www.qantas.co.au ?)

That's just the "standard" TLD's with a country code on the end, which
seems the standard around the rest of the world.


Regards,

David Clayton, e-mail: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

Dilbert's words of wisdom #18: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 01:46:23 -0700
From: LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com (Linc Madison)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Organization: LincMad Consulting


In article <telecom19.215.8@telecom-digest.org>,
J.F. Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:

>> Another thing I find totally useless is the use of 'www' on the front
>> of every one of their names. If anyone cares to know, the use of 'www'
>> goes back to in the early nineties when file transfers were still
>> mostly all done by FTP.

> A lot more than just FTP. There is also telnet, and all sorts of
> proprietary applications that use various ports. There is also IRC etc
> etc.

No, actually, the use of "www" on the front of the name goes back to
the days when most sites on the web were at places like universities,
where most of the hosts were NOT configured with web servers.  You
had to specify www.berkeley.edu, for example, rather than just
berkeley.edu, because the latter was a different machine at a different
address.  The use of "www" is *NOT* useless.  It just happens that there
are a lot of "virtual domains" where the "www" host is the same as the
host for other purposes.

Even today, if you type "berkeley.edu" into your web browser and get
a meaningful response, it is only because your browser tried the
actual host "berkeley.edu" and found no web server and therefore, on
its own initiative, tried the alternative "www.berkeley.edu".  If
you force the browser to go only to "berkeley.edu" (for example, by
specifying the address numerically, <http://128.32.123.6>) your
request will FAIL.  The address for www.berkeley.edu is 128.32.25.12.

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I believe that '.us' is used by local
> and state governments in the USA, while '.gov' is used only by the
> federal government.   PAT]

No, actually, there are quite a lot of non-US-federal entities in the
".gov" domain.  For example, texas.gov, ca.gov (California), ohio.gov,
hawaii.gov, and even panynj.gov (Port Authority of New York and New
Jersey).  However, I don't know of anything outside the U.S.

Also, just about anyone who wants to can set up a geographic subdomain
under ".us"; for instance, there is a ".concord.ca.us" subdomain.  Two
common conventions in use are that ".state.xx.us" and ".k12.xx.us"
(replacing "xx" with the two-letter state abbreviation) are the state
government and the schools.  If your city has a subdomain, the usual
form will be that the city government is in ci.<city>.<st>.us; for
example, ci.concord.ca.us for Concord.


** Do not send me unsolicited commercial e-mail spam of any kind **
Linc Madison  *  San Francisco, California  *   Telecom@LincMad-com
URL:< http://www.lincmad.com > * North American Area Codes & Splits
>> NOTE: replies sent to <Telecom@LincMad-com> will be read sooner!

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #221
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Fri Jul 16 14:47:04 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA27905;
	Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:47:04 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:47:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907161847.OAA27905@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #222

TELECOM Digest     Fri, 16 Jul 99 14:47:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 222

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: National 555 Telephone Exchange (Linc Madison)
    Re: VoiceNet Calling Card Experiences Wanted (Adam C. Finnefrock)
    Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple (Monty Solomon)
    Nokia Incompatibility With Car Stereo (Celeste Tyree)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Robert A. Rosenberg)
    Kill Advertising Windows (Jeff Colbert)
    Answering Machines / Call Screening (Larry Povirk)
    Telecom Humor (Jim Allen)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Al Iverson)
    California Commentary From AreaCode-Info.com (Eric Morson)
    Re: www. Prefixes (James Bellaire)
    Re: Lower-Priced Always-on DSL (John Stahl)
    Re: BellSouth MemoryCall Fails For Some Forwarded Calls (David Charles)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 01:55:54 -0700
From: LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com (Linc Madison)
Subject: Re: National 555 Telephone Exchange
Organization: LincMad Consulting


In article <telecom19.216.5@telecom-digest.org>, <stannc.no1spam@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> The report makes me wonder about the enforcement of 555 usage in
> entertainment created before 1992, but used today. One case I spotted
> recently was on a Nick at Nite re-run of the 'WKRP' television show.
> Back in the late '70's, the number 555-WKRP was perfectly fake, but
> someone took the time to go back and re-phrase/re-loop the soundtrack
> so that you only saw Dr. Johnny Fever say the number without the
> sound.

Even today, you will see movies and TV shows that use "fake" 555 numbers
that are actually assigned!  There is only a small range of 555 numbers
that are reserved as fictitious for movies and such, but "Hollywood"
doesn't seem to have gotten the message that there are new rules.

Only 555-01xx is guaranteed fictitious under the current scheme.


** Do not send me unsolicited commercial e-mail spam of any kind **
Linc Madison  *  San Francisco, California  *   Telecom@LincMad-com
URL:< http://www.lincmad.com > * North American Area Codes & Splits
>> NOTE: replies sent to <Telecom@LincMad-com> will be read sooner!

------------------------------

From: adam@bigbro.biophys.cornell.edu (Adam C. Finnefrock)
Subject: Re: VoiceNet Calling Card Experiences Wanted
Date: 15 Jul 1999 18:34:41 -0400
Organization: Cornell University


jt5555@epix.net (Julian Thomas) writes:

> Jason got back to me on this - his voicenet calling card has this URL:

> http://WWW.voicenetcard.COM/

Following this, has anyone had any experience with Voicenet as their
primary service provider at home (or business)?  I just got an offer
for it: 7.9 cents/min and it lowers the card rate to 13.9 cents/min.

I've been using their card occasionally (and liked it) but I didn't
know that they had residential service.  I don't see anything on their
web site; maybe it's new?  Any suggestions welcome.


Thanks,

Adam

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:12:06 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple


New Yorkers now have a new option for broadband Internet access to
their home or office.

Bell Atlantic Corp. introduced their Infospeed digital subscriber line 
services to parts of Manhattan Thursday. Other parts of the New York 
metropolitan area are scheduled to receive the server later this year. 

http://www.internetnews.com/isp-news/article/0,1087,8_162351,00.html 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:08:41 GMT
From: Celeste Tyree <cmtyree@yahoo.com>
Subject: Nokia Incompatibility With Car Stereo



Pat,

I need to know if any one else out there has had the same problems
that I have with a Nokia 6160 mobile phone.

When I use (or even have the phone in my vehicle) the phone in my
vehicle, I receive a loud hum from my car stereo.  I have found that
it is worse when I'm playing a CD.  I don't have to worry about the
volume of the ringer on my phone because I receive an alter from my
car stereo.  It is so bad that I have to turn off the stereo before I
answer the phone.  When I am not on the phone I find that the rear
speaker will "crackle" intermittently.

When this problem first occurred I called AT&T Wireless (I have the
One Rate plan), and told them what was happening.  As usual, no one
had an answer.

I then noticed that when I was in another vehicle I did not have the
problem. I continued to call AT&T Wireless seeking a solution to my
noise problem because it can get so bad that it frightened my infant
grandson when he was in the car.  Finally, I spoke to someone that
referred me to Nokia.  I called and was referred to a nice lady at
Nokia and she told me that they were very aware of this problem and
there was no fix for it.  I was shocked.  I had replaced the
originally "stock" stereo in my vehicle thinking that my stereo had
gone bad and still had the problem.
 
Now it is about 9 months later and Nokia says "tuff" and finally I
went to the Car Stereo store and they explained to me that this
problem is "normal" and that the noise I was hearing from my rear
speaker is when I pass a cell site.  Again, there is "no fix" for this
noise problem.

I can't understand how the FCC has let these digital carriers and
phone manufactures get away with this.  I am sure that AT&T Wireless
and Nokia have themselves covered but are we so starved for technology
that we will put up with poor customer service.  There just seem to be
more and more unresolved problems with vendors in the last few years.
Unfortunately, one of them on a repeat basis is AT&T Wireless.  They
do not allow you to speak to a supervisor and it took me 10 months to
solve a billing problem when I changed my One Rate phone number from a
Florida one to a Seattle number!

If someone out there has come up with a resolution for this "noise"
problem that the FCC says is okay, please let me know.  The only other
alternate that had come up is to change out my Sony stereo until we
find one that does make the noise.  That is a little to expensive for
my pocketbook and I know that Nokia will not pay for that fix!!!


Celeste M Tyree


"Grasp the Opportunity to Manage Change, Not Avoid It. Change is the
Very Essence of Life."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:20:14 -0400
From: Robert A. Rosenberg <hal9001@panix.com>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce


Art.Walker@onesourcetech.com (Art Walker) wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:07:01 -0500, James Bellaire <bellaire@tk.com>
> wrote:

>> Returning to the original definitions would be good:

>> .ORG - owned by organizations/not for profit
>> .NET - owned by network operators
>> .COM - owned by commercial entities/for profit/misc

> Better yet, fold all of those domains into a single ".us" entity, and
> use a directory service (say, LDAP-based) for mapping company names and
> information to a specific domain entry.

> As part of the directory schema, detailed information about ownership,
> location, contacts and type of business could be easily included.

> Of course, the question about exactly who will run these directory
> servers would still need to be figured out.

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: But I believe the domain called '.us'
> is already in use by state and local governments and some public
> schools; things like that.  PAT]

The .us domain is available to anyone in the US who wants to use
it. The major problem with it is that it is strictly a geographic
hierarchy. IOW if I register a domain located in New York City, it
will be x.nyc.ny.us (or something on that order). There is NO
provision for creating a domain name that is not geographic (such as
Joe-Blow-Inc.com.us).


BTW: The relevant RFC is RFC1480.

------------------------------

From: Jeff Colbert <jeff.colbert@removethispam.wcom.com>
Subject: Kill Advertising Windows
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:53:49 GMT


Go to the friendly folks at Siemans in Germany for a free utility that
will kill pesky advertisements, and also act as a proxy server
allowing multiple PC's to share an internet connection. I have been
using it for a couple of weeks now and it works quite well and is easy
to set up.

http://www.siemens.de/servers/wwash/wwash_us.htm

Surf geocities sites without hassle now!


Jeff

------------------------------

From: lpovirk@my-deja.com (Larry Povirk)
Subject: Answering Machines / Call Screening
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 23:44:09 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


We subscribe to Caller ID, but telemarketers are still driving us nuts
with their "out-of-area" calls.  I'd like to get a programmable
phone/answering machine to screen them out, but I'm a little confused
about how they work.  What I'd really like is a machine that would
pick up on any "out-of-area" call on the first ring and play a
recorded message, but would let any other calls continue to ring so we
could pick up on any phone in the house.  Anyone know of any that will
do this?  (It doesn't seem like so much to ask.)


Thanks,

Larry
Richmond, VA

------------------------------

From: Jim Allen <bear@telecom-digest.zzn.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:04:40 -0400
Subject: Telecom Humor


The readers of this Digest might enjoy this look at some new product
ideas: 

http://www.madsc.com/corp/Telecom.htm


Bear

------------------------------

From: radparker@radparker.com (Al Iverson)
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Organization: See sig before replying
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 03:48:10 -0500


In article <telecom19.220.7@telecom-digest.org>, lpovirk@my-deja.com wrote:

> I can't imagine why anyone would ACCEPT calls from anyone who
> expressly refuses to reveal their identity.

Well, the hospital my father was rushed to after recently having a seizure
and passing out while driving, that hospital blocks caller-ID by default.
It comes up "private" or "anonymous," not "unvailable."

Now you can imagine at least one scenario where calls from blocked
locations are calls you may want to receive.


Al Iverson -- Web: http://al.radparker.com/ -- Home: Minneapolis, USA
Visit the Radparker Relay Spam Stopper at http://relays.radparker.com.
STOP! Include SWANKY99 in email replies or they may be tagged as spam.
Send me no unsolicited advertising, as I will always return it to you.


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I can also imagine filing a complaint
with the hospital asking why their outgoing phone calls, which would
frequently be of an urgent or emergency nature lack any identification
on them. I don't know about you, but whether I had someone in the
hospital or not -- or I was *assuming* I didn't have anyone there! --
that's the sort of call I would want to take immediatly, wouldn't you?
Why is the hospital essentially categorizing their phone calls in the
same way as a telemarketer, trying to hide themselves?   PAT]

------------------------------

From: Eric@AreaCode-Info.com (Eric Morson)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:04:39 -0400
Subject: California Commentary From AreaCode-Info.com


http://AreaCode-Info.com
Click on: AC-I Webmasters Respond To California Decision

Then see the July, 1999 Headlines page for new articles.

COMMENTARY

On Thursday, July 15, 1999, California took a controversial step
towards solving the area code explosion that has gripped their state
over the last decade.  This decision would suspend all pending relief
activity in favor of a service-specific statewide overlay.

In my personal opinion, Mr. Knox's idea is foolish at best and
disastrous at worst. His bill flies in the face of the FCC, which is
itself struggling to enforce existing policies. If upheld this bill
would exacerbate rather than solve problems within the state of
California, and encourage other states to disregard FEDERAL mandates
with respect to telephony as a whole. After all, if one state can
dictate their own standards for numbering, why not also for other
policies, such as equal access?

Mr. Knox is pandering to the least common denominator while losing
sight of the bigger picture. Under his plan, 10-digit dialing would
STILL be needed if you were calling a pager, cell phone, or fax
machine. In the meantime the biggest consumption of numbering
resources, assigning numbers in blocks of 10,000, is left
un-addressed, and will necessitate some form of relief at some point
somewhere in California. What then Mr.  Knox? With splits and overlays
outlawed, do we ration numbers or just tell people not to move into a
particular geographic area? Better yet, do we deny phone service,
branding it a privilege to the first arrivals in a geographic area?
What if the party needing numbers happens to be a police station,
hospital, or fire station?

In a rush to appease the clamoring public, the legislature has
advocated a really short-sighted solution that does nothing to address
the real issue, but "feels good". As a person fully and intimately
familiar with 10-digit local dialing, and still in possession of both
my fingers and faculty (and the fingers aren't fatigued from those
extra three digits, either), we strongly urge Governor Davis to veto
the bill when it reaches his desk.

     John Cropper, Co-Webmaster
     Eric B. Morson, Co-Webmaster
     AreaCode-Info.com


Eric B. Morson
Co-Webmaster
AreaCode-Info.com

EMail: Eric@AreaCode-Info.com

------------------------------

From: bellaire@tk.com (James Bellaire)
Subject: Re: www. Prefixes
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:22:33 GMT


It was Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:19:37 -0700, and Derek J. Balling
<dredd@megacity.org> wrote in comp.dcom.telecom:

>> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Good for you. Better still, fix it so
>> the 'www' causes it to bounce if someone does try to use it.  I do not
>> know what you would get by entering http://www.telecom-digest.org
>> since I have never tried it. Personally, if you do try it, I hope it
>> makes your browser crash. :)  Did I ever mention I hate 'www' ??

> Repeat after me:
>            The Internet is not just the web.

That is obvious.  But it is also obvious that the primary means of
connecting over the Internet has moved to HTTP.  I believe that the
main machine in a domain (any one using the "root" domain as a name)
should support http -- if only by forwarding it to the proper server.

Load sharing between machines in the domain can easily be handled.
Only the user needs to know the name pop.example.com or
smtp.example.com or mail.example.com -- others just write to
user@example.com and MX records do the rest.

It has been many moons since I used gopher, and ftp is acceptable
at the beginning of that kind of connection.  I made sure that both
domains I set up work without the www, and would not accept service
from an ISP that refused to do otherwise.

Yes the Internet is more than http/www.  But the trend now is making
http the primary form.  Put your mail on mail. and your news on news.,
and let http reside on the 'root' CNAMEd machine.

It makes it a ton easier to say and write.


James Bellaire
http://tk.com/telecom/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:34:24
From: John Stahl <aljon@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Lower-Priced Always-on DSL


There is a local pair transmission system I hear about which is in the
field trial stage at GTE called Superline(tm) by Lucent/AG
Communication Systems. This system offers to bring the availability of
a truly always on IP data connection over a single twisted pair to the
home/business/SOHO location.

In fact, according to the available literature at the AGCS internet
site (URL: http://www.agcs.com), the Superline(tm) "system" offers
baseband POTS and up to two additional derived telco lines plus an
Ethernet (10BaseT) connection to the subscriber (telco customer) with
all of these services over a single twisted pair. The Ethernet
connection runs at 640Kbps alone and the derived pairs are capable of
56Kbps modem service.

Though Superline(tm) uses DMT (xDSL) technology, according to AGCS
this doesn't bring with it the potential for interference with
adjacent cable pairs in the bundle as the conventional ADSL
transmission does. Signal carrying efficiency also isn't affected by
bridge taps and other types of reflections causing interference which
adversely affect ADSL transmission.

I also hear that several of the CLEC's may be looking at deploying
this system over unbundled incumbent service pairs because it offers
the CLEC the ability to offer their own 'brand' of bundled multiple
line services to their customers over a single copper pair.

This system could certainly open up not only the CLEC market but the
RBOC and the ILEC market for high-speed IP connection as well as
meeting the needs for additional teenage and/or SOHO business lines.

Isn't modern technology truly amazing?


John Stahl
Aljon Enterprises
Telecom/Data Consultant
email: aljon@worldnet.att.net

------------------------------

From: d_c_h@my-deja.com (David Charles)
Subject: Re: BellSouth MemoryCall Fails For Some Forwarded Calls
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:02:45 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


In article <telecom19.219.1@telecom-digest.org>, David A. Burton
<dave48@burtonsys.com.nospam> wrote:

> About three or four weeks ago, BellSouth made a change of some sort,
> and now my MemoryCall service does not work properly for some incoming
> calls.  It still works for calls directly dialed to my residential
> phone number, and also when my BellSouth DCS phone is forwarded to my
> residential phone number (either to the primary or to one of my
> RingMaster distinctive ring numbers).  But when my business line is
> forwarded to that same number, and I don't answer the call, MemoryCall
> picks up with a generic "Welcome to BellSouth MemoryCall
> service ... please enter a mailbox number" message, instead of my
> personal greeting.

> It used to work.  It worked fine for about six months.

> Two or three times I've been informed that it isn't really broken,
> because a caller can still leave me a message, by entering my "mailbox
> number" (which is the seven-digit phone number).  But, of course, this
> is not true, since the caller called a different number (which was
> forwarded to this phone) and therefore the caller does not know what
> number to enter.  A couple of times I've been told that "when you
> forward a number, the number that gets sent to MemoryCall is the
> number you originally dialed, not the number it was forwarded to," so
> that MemoryCall can't tell whose greeting to play and mailbox to use.

It seems to me that it is possible that this system may well be working
as specified, even if this is not how the user would expect it to.

In the call forwarding specifications that I am familiar with (which
would differ in details from those used by Bell South) both the original
called number and the last diverting number can be sent to the final
destination of the call. However both of these are optional (depending
on implementation and subscription options) and subject to the
signalling used being able to carry them.

My guess is that the signalling from the switch serving the residential
line (Switch A) to voicemail server only carries the original called
number. This may be because of the call forwarding specification
implemented, implementation options chosen or limitations of the
signalling system. Alternatively there may be an additional diversion
(hidden to the user) before the voicemail server and so the last
diverting number received is from that diversion and is ignored by the
server.

Thus when all forwardings are on switch A it correctly passes the
original called number to the voicemail server. If there is only one
forwarding then it operates as expected, if there are two or more it
does not operate as expected because the voicemail does not receive the
number of the voicemail customer but that of the first forwarding line.

When there is a forwarding on another switch (switch B) followed by a
forwarding to the voicemail on switch A  it is only possible for switch
A to supply the original called number if it is received from switch B.
If switch A does not receive any indication that the call is forwarded,
it will see the number of the voicemail customer as the original called
number and hence pass it on and the behaviour will be as expected.

Although it may seem that this behaviour is strange it is necessary to
remember that services such as call forwarding are used for several
different applications and that when they are specified it is necessary
to balance differing requirements. Also specifications are often written
assuming that all switches involved and the signalling systems
connecting them comply with the same specifications, whereas this is
frequently not the case.


David Charles

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #222
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Fri Jul 16 17:43:07 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA06019;
	Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:43:07 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:43:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907162143.RAA06019@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #223

TELECOM Digest     Fri, 16 Jul 99 17:43:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 223

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Canada's Namespace (Joey Lindstrom)
    Re: Canada's Namespace (Jim Willis)
    Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems (Craig Partridge)
    Re: BellSouth MemoryCall Fails (John Warne)
    Re: Busiest Public Telephone (Fred Baube)
    Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts (Fred Goodwin)
    Interesting News Article on 612/651 split (Charles Gimon)
    Bill Gates was on A&E Biography (Carl Moore)
    Re: You Believe *67 Works? (Joseph Wineburgh)
    Wireless Solution (Jonathan)
    Re: Audio-Visual, Multimedia Component to Digest (Jerome Yuzyk)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (John R. Levine)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Derek J. Balling)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Bill Ranck)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joey Lindstrom <Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 04:02:16 -0600
Reply-To: Joey Lindstrom <Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU>
Subject: Canada's Namespace


On Fri, 16 Jul 1999 02:32:04 -0400 (EDT), Derek J. Balling wrote:

> Canada has both options which is great, you can either have a "limited" 
> presence (where you have something like, IIRC, COMPANY.TORONTO.ON.CA, or 
> you can get COMPANY.CA if you've got a "national presence").

Sounds great.  In practice, it blows, for two reasons:

1) In order to register company.ca you *MUST* have a national
presence.  That means you've gotta have mailing addresses in at least
two provinces and/or territories.  Which means that if Pat tried to
set up the Telecom Digest up here using .ca namespace, he could *NOT*
use telecom-digest.ca - because he's not a national company.  If he
lived here in Calgary, he might be able to go with
telecom-digest.ab.ca (ab for Alberta).  But ....

2) You're limited to one, and only one, domain name per organization. 
If Pat set up telecom-digest.ab.ca and then also wanted to set up, say,
ham-radio-digest.ab.ca, he'd be told to go piss up a rope.  Sorry, pal,
you've got your one domain and that's all you get.  What kind of
ham-handed attitude is that?

The few companies that do have .ca addresses aren't terribly smart
about it either.  For example, you can visit Sprint Canada's website by
surfing to "www.sprintcanada.ca".  Isn't that a little redundant
redundant?

There are no valid reasons for these restrictions and it's long been
something that's stuck rather badly in my craw.  The domain names I've
registered, therefore, have mostly been via Network Solutions, although
I did register one domain in the .nu domain (the island nation of Niue)
 -- seems they're selling off their namespace wholesale at $25/year per
domain name.  Same with .to and a handful of others.  It's an abuse of
what these were intended for, but considering the restrictions that
you're put to to register domains in many ISO codes (especially .ca, as
well as .uk, .us and .au), is it surprising that it's turned out this
way?


 From the messy desktop of Joey Lindstrom
 Email: Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU or joey@lindstrom.com
 Phone: +1 403 313-JOEY
 FAX:   +1 413 643-0354 (yes, 413 not 403)
 Visit The NuServer!  http://www.GaryNumanFan.NU
 Visit The Webb!      http://webb.GaryNumanFan.NU

 "To err is human; to really screw things up requires the root password."
         --someone on alt.sysadmin.recovery

------------------------------

From: Jim Willis <ppost2@drlogick.com>
Subject: Re: Canada's Namespace
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:42:11 -0400


The best way to have the system would be to have the domain reflect
the location of the service. The way the Canadian domain works is (I
could be corrected):

 .ca    - National Company operating Nation Wide - Federally incorporated
 .on.ca - Ontario Corporation doing business in Ontario (all over)
 .bc.ca - British Columbia Corporation
 .barrie.on.ca - Small Company doing business mostly in Barrie
 .victoria.bc.ca -  Small shop in Victoria


Jim Willis

------------------------------

From: craigp@world.std.com (Craig Partridge)
Subject: Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:48:43 GMT
Organization: The World @ Software Tool & Die


larb0@aol.com (LARB0) writes:

> I'm far from expert, but won't cable modems encounter the same
> backhaul/ISP congestion once outside of the loop? Isn't this sort of a
> double whammy for cable modems? Degradation in the loop side as well
> as congestion on network?

That's one reason that some of the cable model suppliers put proxy
servers at the head end.  For popular web pages, their subscribers see
the best possible performance, without any issues of sharing the link
out. It also has the advantage of reducing the bandwidth they need to
support from each head end.

I expect the DSL guys to learn the lesson and do it to.


Craig

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:58:39 -0400
From: John Warne <warnejw@sbac.edu>
Subject: Re: BellSouth MemoryCall Fails


The following is based on the assumption BellSouth is using an Octal VM
platform in your area, and relates information I gleaned from multiple
discussions with BellSouth:

There's a "switch" setting in the VM box that BS has obviously changed.

The Octal box works in one of two ways. You have experienced both of
the ways!

We have the same situation. The solution proposed by BS was for us to
have them install a "transfer mailbox" feature on each and every phone
line/number that would be call forwarded to the phone with the
MemoryCall mailbox.

Oh, by the way, there is a monthly charge for the feature.

The "switch" or flag in the VM box is global. All customers on the box
get it one way or the other, without individual customization/choice.

Why do it one particular way? Could "revenue stream" influence the
decision?

> About three or four weeks ago, BellSouth made a change of some sort,
> and now my MemoryCall service does not work properly for some incoming
> calls.  It still works for calls directly dialed to my residential
> phone number, and also when my BellSouth DCS phone is forwarded to my
> residential phone number (either to the primary or to one of my
> RingMaster distinctive ring numbers).  But when my business line is
> forwarded to that same number, and I don't answer the call, MemoryCall
> picks up with a generic "Welcome to BellSouth MemoryCall
> service ... please enter a mailbox number" message, instead of my
> personal greeting.

> It used to work.  It worked fine for about six months.

------------------------------

From: Fred Baube <fred@rodan.moremagic.com>
Subject: Re: Busiest Public Telephone
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:07:28 +0300
Reply-To: fred@moremagic.com


Andrew Green <acg@datalogics.com> wrote:

> I seem to recall reading somewhere that one of the busiest payphone
> locations was one located at the top of a particular tall building,
> [..] Apparently the coin boxes had to
> be emptied several times a day (at least in the days before calling
> cards). 

This was also the case with some payphones at student dorms at
Georgetown University in 1975/1976. They had a large number of
students from Middle Eastern countries who had no other way to call
home, which they did often and at high cost. IIRC I was told they got
big rolls of quarters from the local banks.


Fred Baube
F.Baube(tm)        * "Not enough salt." -- Yeltsin re. the Big Mac
G'town U. MSFS '88 * "It doesn't matter what I make, there's never
fred@moremagic.com *  enough salt for that guy." -- Mrs. Yeltsin
+358 (40) 737 6934 *  -- http://www.salon.com/people/lunch/
#include <std_disclaimer.h> *  1999/07/02/cohon/index1.html

------------------------------

From: Fred Goodwin <goodwin@tri.sbc.com>
Subject: Re: Bills Would Fence Off the Facts
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:01:24 -0500


shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote in
<telecom19.221.10@telecom-digest.org>: 

> Which means that because I use info from tables in the front of the
> phone book, and from the utilized/available files at nanpa.com *and*
> info from the NNAG files from TRA, TRA or the phone company or Lockheed
> can enjoin me from sharing my lists of which exchanges are "local"
> because it would hurt their market for a service to *sell* that info.

> Please note that there is *no* way to collect this info *without*
> accessing databases. And that it's damned hard to collect *without*
> spending several hundred dollars a year for the LERG database. Yet, in
> spite of the fact that this info is *necessary* to keeping modern phone
> systems operating (and vital to setting up things like PBX systems)
> they would be able to extort any price they feel like for the data.

I guess I disagree.  Telcos publish tariffs, and the tariffs I'm familiar
with include a listing of which exchanges are local.  So the information
*is* available from sources other than the databases you mention.

In my mind, the real question is, how much is a third-party willing to
spend or do to collect that information themselves?  I think that's
the real issue, because as I see it, the purpose of the legislation is
to protect the "sweat of the brow" effort that others have expended in
compiling that information.

I or you or anyone else could expend the same effort to compile that
information.  Of course, it's inconvenient and expensive to ask every
PUC for a copy of every tariff, but the point is it *can* be done and
the information *is* available.


Fred Goodwin, CMA 
Associate Director -- Technology Program Management
SBC Technology Resources, Inc.
9505 Arboretum, 9th Floor, Austin, TX 78759
fgoodwin@tri.sbc.com
(512) 372-5921
(512) 372-5991 fax

------------------------------

From: Charles Gimon <gimonca@mirage.skypoint.com>
Subject: Interesting News Article on 612/651 Split
Date: 16 Jul 1999 15:07:55 GMT
Organization: SkyPoint Communications, Inc.


http://www.wcco.com/news/stories/news-990715-181951.html

Some background: when 651 was split off from 612, it was decided to do
the split on geographic boundaries rather than exchanges.  Now one of
the suburbs along the edge of the split is having problems.


 Wild new Ubik salad dressing, not    | gimonca@skypoint.com
 Italian, not French, but an entirely | Minneapolis MN USA
 new and different taste treat that's | http://www.skypoint.com/~gimonca
 waking up the world!                 | A lean, mean meme machine.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:00:17 EDT
From: Carl Moore <cmoore@ARL.MIL>
Subject: Bill Gates Was on A&E Biography


That was last night, and I happen to be glancing at a Feb. 15 article
in the Digest (Subject: Ticketmaster and Microsoft Settle Linking
Dispute), with editor's note that Ticketmaster seems greedy!  (I heard
some comments along that line about Bill Gates in that Biography!)

------------------------------

From: Joseph Wineburgh <jwineburgh@chubb.com>
Reply-To: <jwineburgh@chubb.com>
Subject: Re: You Believe *67 Works?
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:02:00 -0400


Here's my query and response to/from Webley (obviously my motives were
disguised), with my original submissions attached below.

Read it bottom to top.

Not sure why they have just come to the realization that the FCC requires
*67 to actually block the number ...

#JOE

                ----------Read from bottom to top---------

I can not tell you who the carrier is, but it is FCC who required this to
happen, so it will happen.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Joseph Wineburgh <jwineburgh@chubb.com>
 To: 'Alex Kurganov' <alex@webley.com>
 Date: Thursday, July 15, 1999 12:54 PM
 Subject: RE: question regarding *67 and your local service


> Aha! now it makes sense. We are looking at PRI as well.

> Who's your local carrier, and what would their motivation be to block with
> *67 vs. leaving it as it is? I would think it would be more useful if left
> up to the end user.

> Thanks again.

> #JOE

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Kurganov [mailto:alex@webley.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 1:54 PM
> To: jwineburgh@chubb.com
> Subject: Re: question regarding *67 and your local service

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Wineburgh <jwineburgh@chubb.com>
> To: 'Alex Kurganov' <alex@webley.com>
> Date: Thursday, July 15, 1999 12:22 PM
> Subject: RE: question regarding *67 and your local service

>> Thanks.

>> I guess my question really should be more like:

>> How is your device different than my caller ID box?

> Our device has a digital PRI ISDN interface, your box is an analog device.

>> In other words, if I dial *67 to my house and it shows up as 'private',
>> how is it that you are able to see the number?

> The local carrier you dial *67 blocks the caller id, the local carrier we
> use does not.
> They may do it soon, though.

> ISDN PRI? SS7 signaling?

>> I find all of this very intriguing!

>> Thanks.

>> #JOE

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alex Kurganov [mailto:alex@webley.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 12:05 PM
>> To: jwineburgh@chubb.com
>> Subject: RE: question regarding *67 and your local service


>> Hi,
>> This is purely a local carrier business. If they do not block caller id,
>> an IVR can have it and block it itself.
>> We are actually going to provide caller ID blocking option to callers on
>> non-toll free numbers.
>> Alex

  -----Original Message-----
 From:	W. Joseph Wineburgh [mailto:jwineburgh@chubb.com]
 Sent:	Wednesday, July 14, 1999 12:04 PM
 To:	'editor@telecom-digest.org'
 Subject:	FW: Re: You Believe *67 Works?

UPDATE:

Just tried the demo on the web site. The test number is a 312-nnn, and
here's what I got;

On an AT&T SDN T that does not report any CID (unavailable or out-of-area
depending on the box), it reported 'no ANI'.
On a 2-way CO trunk (973-359-nnnn), it reported the number correctly without
the *67, and amazingly,
Another member of the same CO trunk group WITH *67 in front of the number,
it WAS able to report the correct CID!

This is definitely NOT what Bellcore had in mind when they dreamt up
'private'!!!

Just goes to show *67 does not guarantee anything!

I am planning on firing off an email to them to find out more about the
system they use (ISDN PRI?).

#JOE

 -----Original Message-----
 From:	W. Joseph Wineburgh [mailto:jwineburgh@chubb.com]
 Sent:	Wednesday, July 14, 1999 9:13 AM
 To:	'editor@telecom-digest.org'
 Subject:	Re: You Believe *67 Works?

They're not assigning the 'local' numbers any more. I spoke with one
of the droids at the toll-free number and they stated they were no
longer giving out the 'local' numbers for security reasons (and that
they had run out of numbers). They might be considering doing it a few
months down the road.

This is all VERY intriguing to me as to how they technically get
around the *67 issue, and I do intend to do some more digging, maybe
follow up with them when/if they offer the local service again to see
how exactly they are doing it. I find it very hard to believe they can
do it (technically, not morally).

We shall see...

#JOE


 From: Joseph Wineburgh <jwineburgh@chubb.com>
 Reply-To: <jwineburgh@chubb.com>
 Subject: Re: You Believe *67 Works?
 Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:34:10 -0400


It's a toll-free 'personal' number service. Similar to the one on the
west coast you pitch from time to time. They use ANI, which we all
know is impervious to *67 or the like.


#JOE


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: But toll-free numbers begin with 800,
888 or 877 don't they? They do not begin with 312-416 do they? If I
call a number 312-416-xxxx I can reasonably assume I am paying for
the call, can't I, and entitled to the use of *67 if I wish? I would
certainly make no such assumption of privacy regards an 800 number.
I would agree with anyone who said that overriding *67 was proper in
the case of a 'toll-free' call; the person paying for the call always
has a right to know what he is paying for. What prevents me from
obtaining a 312-416 number then advertising it as some sort of
confidential counseling service and writing down the numbers of all
the people who call it thinking they are speaking to me with thier
calling number hidden? Is that as bad as getting an 800 number and
then charging the caller for using it (we have been through all that
here in the past) or is it worse?  Subscribers are placed in various
blocks of numbers which traditionally identify the class of service
they have for good reason.   PAT]

#JOE

------------------------------

From: Jonathan <jonathan@nospam-syntel.com>
Subject: Wireless Solution
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:04:53 -0700
Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com


I am working with a small business that needs seasonal telecoms service
 -- data and voice, October-December.  They are located rather far from
the nearest telco central office, so DSL is not available and T-1 is
quite expensive.  

It occurred to me that this might be an excellent candidate for a fixed
wireless arrangement.

Do any LECs offer this?  Are there other economical solutions?

------------------------------

From: jerome@supernet.ab.ca (Jerome Yuzyk)
Subject: Re: Audio-Visual, Multimedia Component to Digest
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:34:47 -0700
Organization: BRIDGE Scientific Services, Edmonton, AB, Canada
Reply-To: jerome@supernet.ab.ca


TELECOM Digest Editor <editor@telecom-digest.org> wrote:

> I'd like to get some thoughts from regular users of telecom-digest.org
> about possible changes and additions to the web site involving regular
> use of multimedia presentations. It would be a bit too much for me to
> do on any regular basis in any quantity without assistance from those
> of you who are interested.

Someone else wrote:

> Has the thought ever occurred to you of doing a REAL radio talk show?


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Regards the contents of the main part
> ...
> afraid I cannot help you with that, since I prefer to not put my
> material or my presence on that media. Years ago I did two or three
> ...
> Let me address your postscript points: Regards a sense of timing,
> no television or radio station is going to put me on an endless loop
> tape playing over and over whenever someone happens to watch/listen.
> On the other hand, netcasting on the web allows your program to be
> available at any time of day or night that it is convenient for a
> netter to 'tune in.' Unlike radio or television, where reception is
> a chance matter depending on how the signal propogates in the

Once you have enough material, people could make their own radio
(i.e., free-running delivery) by choosing their own sequence of
presentations from a form or something. There could be a "My Telecom
Digest" thing that would play me regular features, or even run
randomly through "What's New" or "Memories" or some such palette. Set
it up and let it play! Like my friend Warren that tapes TV and watches
it when he wants to. Since you are unencumbered by sequence from the
start, you can let people make their own.
 

-              J e r o m e   Y u z y k | jerome@supernet.ab.ca          -
-           BRIDGE Scientific Services | www.tgx.com/bridge             -
-    Sunbeam Alpine Series II #9118636 | www.tgx.com/bridge/sunbeam     -
-    I'm going to SUNI III... Are You? | www.newsource.net/suni3        -


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I was thinking along those lines, but
not sure where to start it or quite how to implement it. As of yet,
I've not received any responses from anyone willing to do it. I do
believe TELECOM Digest has a challenge however, as we enter Century 21
in just a little over five months. Keeping a record of telecom history
is important of course, which is why things like the telephone museum
and the archives of comp.dcom.telecom (thus, this mailing list) will
always be part of the site. The personal, individual thoughts and
ideas of contemporary telecom users is also important, along with the
sharing of resources to solve telecom-related problems, so this function
of the site should continue also, and I hope it will. If you want,
think of me as a 'meta service rep' for all facets of telecom. You
bring your problems and concerns here; I publish them and we all share
in finding solutions.

But we also need to constantly be alert to the changes in the industry
which are going on all the time. To my way of thinking, it was just
becoming very unsatisfactory for telecom-digest.org to be 'just an
old, dusty collection of the archives of comp.dcom.telecom' ... which 
is why in the past few months I've attempted to expand the horizon
here just a little to have contemporary telecom events and knowledge
be a major part of the site. I've wanted for a long time to deal with
privacy issues in a practical, non-theoretical way. I've wanted to
have late-breaking telecom news reports available for instant review
and analysis. Such things as the constant changes in area codes are
impossible for one person to deal with. 

The very, very, very old-time readers here will recall that in the
1980's there was one source, and one source only, of telecom-related
news in an electronic format. Guess who that was? Yours truely ... it
was called 'comp.dcom.telecom' and 'TELECOM Digest'. Then things
began exploding to the point that it was impossible to handle it all.
First came the separation of the people who wanted to talk about
privacy, with Dennis Rears moderating that new list. Then came the
alt.dcom.telecom newsgroup. Then came Computer Underground Digest
when the overflow in that direction got too much. Then came the
Usenet comp.dcom.telecom.tech newsgroup when there were operational
differences in philosophy between myself and a number of readers
of the c.d.t. newsgroup. That brings us up to around 1994 or 1995,
when the bright idea of Tim Berners-Lee took root and began changing
the world.

Is there anyone these days who does not understand fully that 'ideas
have consequences'? Was it 1994 or 1995 that the web had the *thirty-
nine thousand* percent increase in the number of sites on line? The
year before and the years after have seen some unbelievable increases
in the number of sites going on line, but that one year it was 
outrageous. Remember that? From a relative handful of sites on line
to *millions* of sites on line less than a year later. There were days
during that one year period when ten to fifteen thousand sites were
being added every 24 hours. 

Now, three billion sites plus or minus a few later, with the internet
soon to be facing the same kind of addressing crisis that telco is
faced with -- in fact, the new 'internet address expansion' thing is
officially turned on as of this weekend; new IP addresses will have
a few more digits in them as a result so that instead of maxxing out
at about four billion addresses the net will be able to accomodate
a *billion squared* unique addresses -- I am having a mid-life crisis
of my own.  In the 1980's and early 1990's people proposing supple-
mentary newsgroups and mailing lists would ask me what I thought 
about their ideas. They would ask for my imprimatuer for whatever
value that carries now or back then. Or sometimes they would not seek
imprimateur and instead just nail up their notice of revolt on my
front door and start their own thing anyway. But at least there was
always discussion and notice given. 

Now, 1999, there are a couple thousand sites dealing in telecom stuff.
Many of them are quite good. Many of them that I visit, I find myself
saying, "I wish I thought of that idea first". None of them however
came around asking my opinion on anything. So there are many very
good and some quite excellent telecom-related sites on the net, and
where does that leave me? As the custodian of a few thousand old and
very dusty telecom files from the archives of Usenet perhaps?  Just
because I was *first* doesn't mean I am the best. Our history is
very important, but I feel the site also has to move on into the
present and the future, thus the expansion in recent months. The net
is full of new technologies to use in presenting whatever it is that
we are about. Why not use it?     PAT]

------------------------------

Date: 16 Jul 1999 15:11:02 -0400
From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine)
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I can also imagine filing a complaint
> with the hospital asking why their outgoing phone calls, which would
> frequently be of an urgent or emergency nature lack any identification
> on them.

Don't be silly, you answer the phone and they say "this is Dr. Whoever
calling from the Pigeons of Mercy Hospital".  How much more ID do you
want?  But they don't want you to call random extensions in the
hospital when you call back, they want you to call the switchboard who
knows how to locate people even though they're running all over the
hospital.

When doctors return an after-hours call to the answering service from
home, they always block CLID since they don't want random patients
calling their home numnber.  That's equally not anonymous, even though
the number they're calling from is equally none of your business.

> Why is the hospital essentially categorizing their phone calls in the
> same way as a telemarketer, trying to hide themselves?   PAT]

I can't ever recall getting a blocked call from a telemarketer.
They're all out of area, which is not the same thing.  Why do you
insist on confusing the two?


John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869
johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, 
Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Understandably the staff member does
not always want calls directly to their extension. In that case, the
hospital's main switchboard number should show up. Often times, the
number shown as ID in the cases of centrex or DID is confusing anyway,
and the name when shown is some sort of abbreviation. I agree that
having DID or centrex numbers shown on caller ID boxes does not make
a lot of sense. Having the caller ID box say something like, 'Hospital
Name' and the phone number on the other hand is quite appropriate.

But the problem is not so much that when you answer the phone the
voice on the other end is going to identify herself as Nurse Jane, to
tell you that grandpa seems to be getting better/worse, its that
'private' you see on the box *before you answer* that is the concern.
How does the recipient of the call know in advance if it is Nurse Jane
calling or if it is someone he definitly does not wish to speak with
prior to answering in that case? 

The complaint I said I would register with the hospital would not be
that all the internal extensions at the hospital should show up on
the box or that the hostess of a gathering where the doctor happens
to be that night should have her number exposed, it would be why
can't the hospital telecom administrator arrange things so that the
hospital's *main listed number* and its name appear instead of just
'private'. Rush-Presbyterian and its affiliate Rush-North Shore in
Skokie have it fixed that way, and I have seen many PBX and centrex
arrangements where just one 'identifying number' was sent out. It
all depends in how it is wired.   PAT]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:28:35 -0700
From: Derek J. Balling <dredd@megacity.org>
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I can also imagine filing a complaint
> with the hospital asking why their outgoing phone calls, which would
> frequently be of an urgent or emergency nature lack any identification
> on them. I don't know about you, but whether I had someone in the
> hospital or not -- or I was *assuming* I didn't have anyone there! --
> that's the sort of call I would want to take immediatly, wouldn't you?
> Why is the hospital essentially categorizing their phone calls in the
> same way as a telemarketer, trying to hide themselves?   PAT]

You are making an assumption that the ONLY people who Caller-ID-Block
was intended for are telemarketers. It was also intended for PRECISELY
the hospital, doctor, police, etc.

Hospitals have switchboards for a reason. They don't want you to be
able to dial into Dr. Smith's private extension in his office up on
the 5th floor.  They want you to dial the switchboard, so that if
Dr. Smith is busy taking three inches out of someone's intestine that
they can either route your (non-emergency) call to an answering
service, or if it is an emergency to get you to someone else who can
help.

Likewise, the police officer who gets an idea about something you
reported and wants to call you really DOESN'T want you to have his
home phone number so you can call him every day hounding him to solve
your case.

You are attaching an unnecessary stigma to Caller ID Blocking ... This
seems a lot to me like the recent discussion about the new Kubrick
film and how WB didn't want the "stigma" of an NC-17 rating, even
though NC17 was created specifically to NOT have the "X" stigma.

All (Anonymous|Private) means is that the person who is calling you
doesn't want you to have the ability to call them back directly on the
number they're calling from. Nothing more. If you wish to imply from
that statement that "you don't want to talk to those people", then
resign yourself to not wanting to talk to doctors, police, AS WELL AS
the occasional telemarketer.

It's my experience that I have personally YET to get a telemarketer
who came in as Private, they ALWAYS seem to come up as Out Of Area
... I think they're all moving to crappy areas with crummy service so
that nobody will ever know who they are. ;-)


D


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: See my answer to John Levine above.
I merely suggest that telecom administrators similarly situated
as those you describe above have their outgoing lines arranged to
give a generic number intended for identification and call-back
purposes.  PAT]

------------------------------

From: Bill Ranck <ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Date: 16 Jul 1999 19:28:21 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia, USA


Al Iverson <radparker@radparker.com> wrote:

> Well, the hospital my father was rushed to after recently having a seizure
> and passing out while driving, that hospital blocks caller-ID by default.
> It comes up "private" or "anonymous," not "unvailable."

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I can also imagine filing a complaint
> with the hospital asking why their outgoing phone calls, which would
<snip>
> Why is the hospital essentially categorizing their phone calls in the
> same way as a telemarketer, trying to hide themselves?   PAT]

If I understand it correctly they are blocking their numbers, not
hiding behind a non-complient PBX like a telemarketer.  I assume 
they are doing this to keep people from getting the direct extension 
number for the phone a doctor/nurse/employee happened to use to call 
out on.  There are plenty of good reasons for that.

A better way to handle it would be to have the hospital's main
information/switchboard number come up no matter what extension
was used for the outbound call.  Maybe they can't or don't know
how to set that up.


 Bill Ranck                +1-540-231-3951                    ranck@vt.edu
    Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University, Computing Center   


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: That's precisely my point. My
complaint would be about the configuration of their network, not
whether or not some individual doctor, social worker, etc is in
a position to take incoming calls at one moment or another.   PAT]

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #223
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Fri Jul 16 18:37:03 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA08589;
	Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:37:03 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:37:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907162237.SAA08589@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #224

TELECOM Digest     Fri, 16 Jul 99 18:37:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 224

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Fire in Toronto Bell Infrastructure - Damage Very Severe (pete@tao.ca)
    Phone Chaos in Toronto - Fire in Bell Office (Jim Willis)
    Legal Settlement With Merrick Bank (Babu Mengelepouti)
    Internet Site Warning About Merrick Bank (webmaster@wardscorner.com)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Al Iverson)
    Re: www. Prefixes (Derek J. Balling)
    Re: Nokia Incompatibility With Car Stereo (John Nagle)
    For Sale: Panasonic Office Phone System with Voicemail (Timon Sloane)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal on the Internet, having
been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then.     
Our archives are available for your review/research. 

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 16:38:28 -0400 EDT
From: pete <pete@tao.ca>
Subject: Fire in Toronto Bell Infrastructure - Damage Very Severe


Friday morning at 10:32 in the Bell Canada Central Office (CO) there
was a contained electrical short on the third floor. This wasn't a big
deal because they simply lock down the area and suck all of the oxygen
out of the room.

Unfortunately, the designers of this rediculously cool fire extinguisher
didn't bother to connect this system to the sprinkler. Two explosions
rocked the building as millions of dollars worth of network ATM
switches combusted on the 6th and 9th floor. Unconfirmed reports say
that one engineer was rescued while there is a possibility that
several techs were killed.

Any telecommunication service carried over Bell's extensive copper
infrastructure were immediately cut. Phone exchanges were suddenly
islands (someone could call someone in the same exchange could call
someone else) and while the outages primarily took out 416/905 other
parts of Canada will experience "issues" for at least two days. The
cell networks were likewise effected (only Fido could call other
Fidos) and the ATM backbone servicing our wonderful financial
institutions were likewise dead. Many unhappy consumers. Even radio
stations that send their signals through a (Bell) leased line were
playing canned music. Notable as well is that E911 emergency services
were also down.

Every copper based ISP in Toronto was down. Companies like UUNet and
PSInet all lease bandwidth and infrastructure from Bell. Cable modem users
would have been unaffected because their net traffic never touches the
Bell infrastructure.

There is no firm ETA when everything will be "normal". Emergency
rerouting of the PSTN phone traffic (likely through New York!) has
taken effect, however this stopgap solution cannot hope to connect
everyone in Toronto at the same time. At one moment your server could
be touching 60% of the net; the next you could be all alone.

Billions of dollars in business has not happened. While this will annoy
the suits right off, to a geek this is one of the most romantic
scenarios possible -- a real life version of the "islands in the net"
theme.

There has never been a loss at such a central point in recent Toronto
history, and be sure that heads will roll as the illusion of redundancy 
is shattered. This is a sorry day for Bell, who likely lost this
year's profit before noon. Predictably, Bell media contacts are trying
to play the damage and the service outages down.

More information becoming available on a moment for moment basis, so
this is to be considered late-breaking as opposed to absolute recount.


Pete


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I was not planning another issue of the
Digest today, but felt this should be rushed out immediatly to the net.
As additional reports come in, I'll continue pushing them out over the
weekend.  Good luck getting back to normal conditions there. In the
Illinois Bell fire in May, 1988, service was out nearly a month. I
have no way at present of comparing that situation to the present one
of course.  PAT]

------------------------------

From: Jim Willis <ppost2@drlogick.com>
Subject: Phone Chaos in Toronoto - Fire in Bell Office
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:04:32 -0400


TORONTO (CP) -- A large part of Toronto was without telephone service
today after an electrical fire at a Bell Canada office.

There was no immediate indication how widespread the disruption was,
but there were unconfirmed reports of problems elsewhere in Canada.

Telephones at Toronto police headquarters and all police stations in
the city were out of commission, said police spokesman Const. Devin
Kealey.

Computer and Internet services that use phone lines were also down.

Emergency 911 service was out briefly as well. While it was soon
repaired, police were asking people to avoid using it except in
life-threatening situations.

Telephone service to Toronto's fire departments was also reduced to
emergency lines.

The Toronto Stock Exchange said a few of its member firms lost their
communications links, but found other ways to trade stocks.

"Our trading will remain open," said exchange spokesman Steve Kee.

The derivatives market, which includes the trading of options and
futures contracts, was shut down, however. Derivatives trading makes
up a tiny portion of the exchange's daily business.

More than 70 firefighters were called to the morning blaze that
officials say may have started when a tool was dropped in an
electrical room, creating an explosion and sending fire and thick
smoke coursing through the building.

One worker injured in the fire was taken to hospital in serious
condition.

This story from http://www.canoe.ca/TopStories/bell_jul16.html


Jim Willis
ppost2@drlogick.com
www.drlogick.com/printpost

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:03:50 -0700
From: Babu Mengelepouti <dialtone@vcn.bc.ca>
Reply-To: dialtone@vcn.bc.ca
Organization: US Secret Service
Subject: Legal Settlement with Merrick Bank


Pat,

In light of your recent misadventures concerning Merrick Bank, I
thought that it may be interesting to you to relay this little tidbit.

I received a call from Merrick Bank last month, in which they utilized
an illegal automated telecommunications device.  The laws in the state
of Washington require that telemarketing calls be placed only with
humans available, and recordings may be played only at the consent of
the person reached.

I allege that the autodialer which Merrick used blatantly violated this
law.  No human was available, I was instructed only to call an 800
number to receive my "guaranteed" Visa card.  Your previous article on
the subject is a good reference for how their "guaranteed" card offer
really works.

After the message was complete, I called the 800 number, gathered all of
the information I could on Merrick Bank (which proved difficult since
they would give me only Florida PO boxes and Merrick Bank is actually
based at 6056 Fashion Square Drive, Salt Lake City UT 84107,
801/685.7700), and immediately filed a complaint with the attorney
general's office.  Today, I received both a letter from the AGO (in
which they stated that Merrick Bank did not respond to their complaint),
an envelope from Merrick Bank offering a legal settlement, complete with
all, um, "bank settlement documents."  As part of the settlement
agreement, I cannot reveal the terms, and Merrick Bank admits no
wrongdoing.  That said, state law provides for civil penalties of not
less than $500 nor more than $2,000 for each violation of the
telemarketing provisions of the law. In this case, there was one alleged
violation.

I called the representative at the attorney general's office, and he
advised me that he'd received a copy of the documentation which Merrick
sent to me.  He stated that Merrick indicated in their letter to the
attorney general's office that they will no longer be violating
Washington state law in their telemarketing procedures.  He also stated
that Merrick admits no intentional wrongdoing and cited "operator error"
as the reason that I received the call.  The attorney general's
representative was skeptical as to whether or not this is true, but he
said that proving otherwise would be difficult without more complaints,
and he would be forwarding a brief to the FCC.  Regardless of my
personal settlement of all claims against Merrick Bank, the case has
apparently taken on a life of its own now that the attorney general's
office is involved.

In light of my recent settlement, I would advise everyone who is a
victim of illegal telemarketing calls to gather as much information as
possible about who is calling, and then immediately contact their state
attorney general's office.  Your tax dollars pay their salary, and who
knows -- a stern letter from them might actually do some good!


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: The Merrick Bank VISA card scam as it
was being done here on the net was first exposed in this Digest, a
month or so ago. I am glad you were able to benefit from it instead
of getting hurt by it.  PAT]

------------------------------

From: Webmaster <webmaster@wardscorner.com>
Subject: Internet Site Warning About Merrick Bank
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 02:09:07 -0400


A resource page is www.wardscorner.com/merrick . 


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I recommend reading it. There is a lot
of useful information there for people who have been taken in by this
latest scam; this latest in the increasingly large number of fraud
hives on the net.  Thanks for passing this along.   PAT]

------------------------------

From: radparker@radparker.com (Al Iverson)
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Organization: See sig before replying!
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 16:16:25 -0500


In article <telecom19.222.9@telecom-digest.org>, radparker@radparker.com
(Al Iverson) wrote:

> In article <telecom19.220.7@telecom-digest.org>, lpovirk@my-deja.com wrote:
 
>> I can't imagine why anyone would ACCEPT calls from anyone who
>> expressly refuses to reveal their identity.

> Well, the hospital my father was rushed to after recently having a seizure
> and passing out while driving, that hospital blocks caller-ID by default.
> It comes up "private" or "anonymous," not "unvailable."

> Now you can imagine at least one scenario where calls from blocked
> locations are calls you may want to receive.

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I can also imagine filing a complaint
> with the hospital asking why their outgoing phone calls, which would
> frequently be of an urgent or emergency nature lack any identification
> on them. I don't know about you, but whether I had someone in the
> hospital or not -- or I was *assuming* I didn't have anyone there! --
> that's the sort of call I would want to take immediatly, wouldn't you?
> Why is the hospital essentially categorizing their phone calls in the
> same way as a telemarketer, trying to hide themselves?   PAT]

They don't lack identification or try to hide themselves. It says
"private," NOT "unavailable." I have yet to receive a telemarketing call
that shows up as "Private" -- every one I've ever received in Minnesota
actually shows their info (less likely), or it says "Unavailable" (more
likely).

My work also shows up as "Unavailable." Our PBX is too old to push Caller
ID information and we're not ready to replace it yet.

Incidentally, you could imagine filing a complaint, but I can imagine
being more interested in whether or not your sick relative is okay, and
writing off the caller ID issue as "petty stupidness."

Frankly, I thought the issue is whether or not it's possible that there
are legitimate calls that you may get where the caller has caller ID
blocked. Filing a complaint after the fact is not the same as preventing
it from happening.


Al Iverson

Al Iverson -- Web: http://al.radparker.com/ -- Home: Minneapolis, USA
Visit the Radparker Relay Spam Stopper at http://relays.radparker.com.
STOP! Include SWANKY99 in email replies or they may be tagged as spam.
Send me no unsolicited advertising, as I will always return it to you.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:44:54 -0700
From: Derek J. Balling <dredd@megacity.org>
Subject: Re: www. Prefixes


> That is obvious.  But it is also obvious that the primary means of
> connecting over the Internet has moved to HTTP.  I believe that the
> main machine in a domain (any one using the "root" domain as a name)
> should support http -- if only by forwarding it to the proper server.

So even though a particular machine may be something as completely 
specialized as a Cisco router, you would burden it with the overhead of 
maintaining a miniature web server, just because you're too lazy to think 
about the FQDN of the machine you want to connect to?

> Load sharing between machines in the domain can easily be handled.
> Only the user needs to know the name pop.example.com or
> smtp.example.com or mail.example.com -- others just write to
> user@example.com and MX records do the rest.

Right. Instead of pushing for abolition of www. which will never happen, 
why not write up an RFC to add a new DNS record "WWW", which would say "if 
someone wants the web server for <domain>, they really want: 
www.domain.com, or sales.domain.com or whatever. You could even do some 
slick stuff like:

@ 	IN 	WWW	5  www.ourdomain.com
	IN	WWW	10 wwwbackup.ourdomain.com

with the wwwbackup being a failover mirror somewhere else in the world.

> It has been many moons since I used gopher, and ftp is acceptable
> at the beginning of that kind of connection.

Just as is "www" ...

> I made sure that both
> domains I set up work without the www, and would not accept service
> from an ISP that refused to do otherwise.

If a customer specifically requests that their domain work without the
www, then any ISP who refused is an idiot, because it is the
customer's domain, if they want to burn their root domain to be their
web site that is their privilege. Personally, I would want to be a
little more forward-thinking than that ... you never know what the
future might hold that you would want to keep the root-domain
"untarnished" for...

You and I have no idea what the most popular method of internet use
will be 10 years from now. Just as it is "www" today, it might be
"cas" tomorrow or something else, who knows. Using your plan, sites
would have to be "one or the other" since they can only commit their @
domain to a single service...  using the accepted norm allows
flexibility of growth and adaptability to change going forward.

> Yes the Internet is more than http/www.  But the trend now is making
> http the primary form.  Put your mail on mail. and your news on news.,
> and let http reside on the 'root' CNAMEd machine.

Why do you insist that the web is the primary form? Actually, I think
the figures still dictate that e-mail is the most popular use of the
net, and I strongly suspect that if accurate figures were dictated
that "on-line gaming" as a whole probably generates lots more
bandwidth than web surfing (but I can't back that up, just a hunch).

> It makes it a ton easier to say and write.

I have to quote my High School Journalism teacher:

"The easiest way is very seldom the best way. Learn this and you will
do great in life."
	- M.Habernig

(I was admittedly a bit of a slacker in school *grin*)


D

------------------------------

From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle)
Subject: Re: Nokia Incompatibility With Car Stereo
Date: 16 Jul 1999 19:59:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom


Celeste Tyree <cmtyree@yahoo.com> writes:

> I need to know if any one else out there has had the same problems
> that I have with a Nokia 6160 mobile phone.

> When I use (or even have the phone in my vehicle) the phone in my
> vehicle, I receive a loud hum from my car stereo.  I have found that
> it is worse when I'm playing a CD.  I don't have to worry about the
> volume of the ringer on my phone because I receive an alter from my
> car stereo.  It is so bad that I have to turn off the stereo before I
> answer the phone.  When I am not on the phone I find that the rear
> speaker will "crackle" intermittently.

> When this problem first occurred I called AT&T Wireless (I have the
> One Rate plan), and told them what was happening.  As usual, no one
> had an answer.

    It's not their problem.  It's a problem with the car stereo.  The
phone is a transmitter; it has to emit some RF.  Any decent piece of
electronics should be insensitive to low power transmitters in the
immediate vicinity.  (Good pieces of electronics work well right next
to high-powered broadcast transmitters.)

    There are fixes for such problems.  A good car stereo installer
should be able to install the necessary filters cheaply.  This is a
known and well-understood area.  Tell them you have an RFI interference
 problem; if they don't understand what that is, call somebody else.

    The European Union has standards for consumer equipment in this
area, but the US only has standards on emission, not sensitivity.


John Nagle

------------------------------

From: Timon Sloane <timon@flowwise.com>
Organization: FlowWise Networks
Subject: For Sale: Panasonic Office Phone System with Voicemail
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:39:25 GMT


I'm auctioning a complete Panasonic small office phone system on ebay.
The system includes support for 32 users, and includes a KXT123211D
control unit and a TVS100 voicemail system.

The system can be found at:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=132594327


timon

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #224
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Sat Jul 17 01:19:26 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA24131;
	Sat, 17 Jul 1999 01:19:26 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 01:19:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907170519.BAA24131@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #225

TELECOM Digest     Sat, 17 Jul 99 01:19:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 225

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    The Crisis at Pacifica Radio (TELECOM Digest Editor)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Chuck Forsberg)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (John R. Levine)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Gerry Belanger)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Derek Balling)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Steve Uhrig)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (John David Galt)
    Re: Kill Advertising Windows (Dave O'Shea)
    Re: Kill Advertising Windows (Steven J Sobol)
    Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems (Derek Balling)
    Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems (Jonathan Seder)
    Re: 1800SKYTEL2 Blocked in Las Vegas (Stanley Cline)
    Re: Canada's Namespace (Tenexus)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 00:11:59 EDT
From: TELECOM Digest Editor <ptownson@telecom-digest.org>
Subject: The Crisis at Pacifica Radio


The board of directors for Pacifica Foundation has been attempting
to change the format of its radio stations for quite awhile now. Its
station in Texas, KPFT changed from a very politically left-wing
commentary type of programming to an mostly-music format several months
ago. Some have suggested the reason for the change is that Pacifica
wants to more closely emulate National Public Radio, and get some of
the money for itself that major corporations routinely toss at NPR.
A story making the rounds is that one day members of the board at
Pacifica said in essence, 'we have had enough of this hippie shit ...'
and they decided to pull the plug on it.

Staff members at KPFA in Berkeley, CA however are not giving in or
accepting the change as well as management had hoped for. In fact,
to the contrary, there have been demonstrations and violent confron-
tations between demonstrators and police outside the KPFA studios
for the past week. For the past few days, demonstators with sympathetic
members of the local comunication-workers union have staged a picket
line outside the entrance of KPFA's transmitter site to prevent phone
company employees -- who will not cross the picket line -- from doing
the required installation of a circuit which will allow KPFA to be
operated remotely by another Pacifica station, KPFK in Los Angeles.

Management at KPFA has for several days now had armed security guards
on duty blocking the entrance to their building on Martin Luther King
Way and University Avenue in Berkeley. The armed security guards
several days ago escorted the entire staff out of the building, with
the exception of a few people. All those escorted out were apparently
fired. The station has been operating now for a few days using its
recorded archives with the help of a couple employees who were retained
on its staff. Station management is hoping soon to get the data link
between itself and KPFK in Los Angeles connected so that 'normal
programming' can be resumed; or at least as 'normal' as management
at the southern California outlet of Pacifica would have things.

The demonstrations going on each day at the Berkeley radio station 
show no sign of ending anytime soon. The locked out employees have
vowed to 'take back Pacifica for the people' and they've amply illus-
trated their intentions in confrontations with police that have 
resulted in a large number of arrests, both of staff members as well
as members of the community in general who have rallied in their
defense. 

At other Pacifica-owned stations around the country, including WBAI in
New York City, KPFT in Texas and KPFK in Los Angeles, on-air employees
have been sternly warned against *any* discussion regards the dispute
in Berkeley. How long or how well that will hold up I do not know. In
fact back in April when the dispute at Berkeley's station first began
heating up, on-air staffers at KPFA were warned to keep their mouths
shut about it, at least on company time, that there was to be
*nothing* said about the change in direction Pacifica was taking. That
might seem to be a reasonable request of any person who wishes to
behave in a professional and responsible way; you do not publicly
criticize your employer at his expense. You reconcile your differences
privately or you work somewhere else that you like better.

But it happened; several on-air people at Pacifica's Berkeley station
began bad-mouthing the board and its plans. When they did so, they
were in some cases abruptly removed from the air. One day last week,
the station had two hours of 'dead air' when management chose to
immediatly remove one of their commentators in the middle of his
program. That's not a very professional thing to do either, but I
am told other staff members refused an assignment to cover for the
person removed, in which case management should have either announced
there were 'technical difficulties' and played music for a couple of
hours, or did a re-run from the past or something; not just push a
carrier with no modulation on it. 

I guess KPFA management has tried to take the official position there
are no problems at all, and they have steadfastly refused any on-air
commentary about it; just sort of stumbling along, using what they
have of their backup taped archives to tide them over. When there 
was rioting in the street in front of their studio one day last week
by locked out staff and community sympathizers, the on-air person
at the time dared to even mention what was going on outside his
window, so they fired him also on the spot. 

The 'hippies' who were running KPFA for Pacifica need to learn that
no one automatically owes them a radio station. No one has a right to
demand time on the airwaves which 'belong' to someone else, regard-
less of how that 'ownership' of the airwaves may have come about, no
matter how illegitimate they may find the board of Pacifica as
presently constituted and its properties. KPFA is still the property
of Pacifica to do with as it pleases subject to laws, etc. Just as
'freedom of the press' belongs to the people who own the presses,
I suppose the right to have your speech amplified so it can be 
heard outside of normal hearing range belongs to the owners of
radio stations. 

But it also seems to me Pacifica has taken an extemely hypocritical
stance in this matter in light of their long-standing, very liberal
and left-leaning, well-known political  views over the years. They're
not reluctant at all to report on labor disputes and corporate
shenanigans where they find them; they're not afraid at all to take
the federal government to task on a variety of issues. They've never
been reluctant to allow their on-air commentators to say things 
which brought Pacifica almost to the verge of legal action because
of defamation of character. In fact, many's the time Pacifica people
have committed character assasination on the air. Now all of a sudden
when Pacifica itself has become 'an enemy of the people' if the
Berkeley community is to be believed, the station refuses to discuss
it publicly on the air. I guess we all have our blind spots, that
certain place in life where we have to protect ourselves, no matter
how inconsistent it may be with the rest of our logic.

If, as is claimed, Pacifica was getting tired 'of all the hippie shit'
at KPFA, and if their intention is to go a little more main stream
in order to line up at the corporate slop trough with National Public
Radio and National Public Television when the left-overs are tossed
out after every meal, why couldn't they have treated their employees
a little more decently in the process? In one sense, I cannot really
blame the employees for feeling that they 'owned' KPFA; for so many
years they put on whatever nonsense they felt like with little or
no concern from management. 

Pacifica, which should be in the forefront setting an example of how
corporate employers should treat their employees ought to have 
invited employee participation in the conversion. Surely among all
the people on their staff at least some would have understood the
need to program things just a wee-bit more toward the center, that
is, if they expected to be able to be on the air at all over the
next few years. Not everyone on their staff is a crazy person ... 
but instead they hire a private security firm to physically evict
all their employees and then stay on the air acting like nothing
out of the ordinary happened at all, as though a couple hours of
dead air when the latest employee gets marched out the door and
an infinite amount of 'best of' re-runs going on for days at a 
time are common at every radio station. 

Its easy for me to sit here and wish a plague on both their houses;
let them eat each other inside-out until the powerless employees
have all but given up and Pacifica is left with a reputation that
renders them totally impotent in the process. I am sure the
federal government is enjoying watching it all unravel also. 

Whatever. If you are around the San Francisco Bay area you might
wish to go look in on it all; the protests and demonstrations are
continuing daily at Martin Luther King Way and University Ave. as
well as out at the transmitter site. Just be careful you don't
get in the way of a police officer on the scene who has an urge
to crack open your head with his club or insert his club up your
Back Orifice for good measure. I guess the cops on location are
enjoying it also, watching the 'hippies' in their own sort of
civil war among the 'more to the left' and the 'less to the
left' segments.


PAT

------------------------------

From: caf@agora.rdrop.com (Chuck Forsberg)
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Date: 17 Jul 1999 03:12:17 GMT
Organization: RainDrop Laboratories/Agora(sm), Portland, Oregon


In article <telecom19.223.13@telecom-digest.org>, Derek J. Balling
<dredd@megacity.org> wrote:

> It's my experience that I have personally YET to get a telemarketer
> who came in as Private, they ALWAYS seem to come up as Out Of Area
> ... I think they're all moving to crappy areas with crummy service so
> that nobody will ever know who they are. ;-)

I thought Caller ID was supposed to be national??

Most junk calls are 0 but so are some legitimate calls.  It would be
nice to be able to block calls with caller ID of 0.

Perhaps there could be a law that says all junk calls must use a
special caller ID.


Chuck Forsberg  WA7KGX PP-ASEL/HP  Skylane N2469R caf@omen.COM 
Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software www.omen.com
Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, RZ, SZ, Pro-YAM, ZCOMM, GSZ, and DSZ
TeleGodzilla BBS: 503-617-1698  FTP: ftp.cs.pdx.edu pub/zmodem
POB 4681 Portland OR 97208     503-614-0430   FAX:503-629-0665

------------------------------

Date: 16 Jul 1999 23:31:04 -0400
From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine)
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA


> [ Hospitals, for good reasons, block CLID. ]

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: ...
> But the problem is not so much that when you answer the phone the
> voice on the other end is going to identify herself as Nurse Jane, to
> tell you that grandpa seems to be getting better/worse, its that
> 'private' you see on the box *before you answer* that is the concern.
> How does the recipient of the call know in advance if it is Nurse Jane
> calling or if it is someone he definitly does not wish to speak with
> prior to answering in that case? 

You don't.  Deal with it.  If you got a call from 215-365-9916, a real
number showing on my CLID box, how would you know in advance who it
was?  (I don't have the option that shows the subscriber name, but it
would probably say "Bell Atlantic".)

Don't get me wrong, if I had a chance to help round up all of the
outbound telemarketers and ship them off to Siberia for re-education
and intensive self-criticism, I'd grab a cattle prod and do it.  But
it's just plain wrong to pretend that CLID will reliably identify
telemarketers or other callers in advance, because the most it can
tell you is the name of the subscriber to whom the calling phone is
billed, not the name of the person on the phone.

I find CLID useful when I recognize the number, so for example I can
not answer the phone if I'm in a hurry and my charming but very chatty
mother-in-law calls.  I occasionally find it useful when some kid
makes prank calls to my 800 number (which spells a woman's name) to
call them back and tell them to cut it out.  But I don't find it the
least bit useful in predicting when a call will be from someone I
don't want to talk to.  "OUT OF AREA" doesn't help much, most of my
out of area calls are from my sister, calling from a rural telco in
Vermont.


John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869
johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, 
Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail

------------------------------

From: wa1hoz@kona.javanet.com (Gerry Belanger)
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Date: 17 Jul 1999 01:18:37 GMT


Bill Ranck (ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu) wrote:

> A better way to handle it would be to have the hospital's main
> information/switchboard number come up no matter what extension
> was used for the outbound call.  Maybe they can't or don't know
> how to set that up.

This is what our local Hospital in Danbury CT does.  All calls show
the main number.  I wish my employer would do that.  As it is, we get
the number on the outgoing trunk which happens to be selected, instead
of the base number of our DID block.  At least the company name shows
up properly.


Gerry Belanger, WA1HOZ                      wa1hoz@javanet.com
Newtown, CT                                 g.belanger@ieee.org

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:19:10 -0700
From: Derek Balling <dredd@megacity.org>
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?


At 05:43 PM 7/16/99 -0400, TELECOM Digest Editor noted:

> The complaint I said I would register with the hospital would not be
> that all the internal extensions at the hospital should show up on
> the box or that the hostess of a gathering where the doctor happens
> to be that night should have her number exposed, it would be why
> can't the hospital telecom administrator arrange things so that the
> hospital's *main listed number* and its name appear instead of just
> 'private'. Rush-Presbyterian and its affiliate Rush-North Shore in
> Skokie have it fixed that way, and I have seen many PBX and centrex
> arrangements where just one 'identifying number' was sent out. It
> all depends in how it is wired.   PAT]

It was my understanding (I am not an expert in this department, just
repeating something I heard once) that if you had your phone service
coming in as PRI's, this was possible, but if you have it coming in on
standard T1 trunks this wasn't possible. (Something to do with the how
the CNID signalling got done, that with PRI lines the CPE could set it
at will, and standard T1 lines couldn't or something.)

But I could be completely off-base, I just seem to remember hearing that.


D

------------------------------

From: Steve Uhrig <suhrig@bright.net>
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:20:17 -0400
Organization: bright.net Ohio


Al Iverson wrote:

> Well, the hospital my father was rushed to after recently having a seizure
> and passing out while driving, that hospital blocks caller-ID by default.
> It comes up "private" or "anonymous," not "unvailable."
 
> Now you can imagine at least one scenario where calls from blocked
> locations are calls you may want to receive.

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I can also imagine filing a complaint
> with the hospital asking why their outgoing phone calls, which would
> frequently be of an urgent or emergency nature lack any identification
> on them. I don't know about you, but whether I had someone in the
> hospital or not -- or I was *assuming* I didn't have anyone there! --
> that's the sort of call I would want to take immediatly, wouldn't you?
> Why is the hospital essentially categorizing their phone calls in the
> same way as a telemarketer, trying to hide themselves?   PAT]

The local hospitals all block their CID. One reason could be that they
have a common outgoing trunk group used by both the hospital and the
doctors offices in the adjacent medical buildings. If they gave out
the outgoing number they would have people trying to call in on the
outgoing lines because that was the number on their CID box. If they
just sent the name of the hospital, then they would have people
calling the hospital listed number asking who from the hospital called
them. How is the turret operator going to have any idea who is using
all the outgoing trunks?? Needles to say the CID blocking on the
trunks can't be disabled on a per call basis.


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I think they should try to reconfigure
it. At Rush North Shore Hospital in Skokie, the same PBX operators 
who answer for the hospital also respond for 'Valley Answering Service'  
which is a separate, distinct company (owned as a subsidiary by the
hospital) serving as answering service for the adjacent offices in the
Medical Arts Building. How the operator responds (as 'Rush North Shore
operator X' or as 'Dr. Smiths office, may I help you' or as 'Doctors
Answering Service') depends on what lights up when the call comes in.
Outgoing calls from hospital extensions all show the main listed number
*including patient rooms which are direct-dialable on an entirely
different exchange* but with extension numbers which do not overlap
those of the hospital. Patient rooms begin 847-933-1xxx or 2xxx but
they still go out showing 847-677-9600.   PAT]

------------------------------

From: John_David_Galt@acm.org (John David Galt)
Organization: Diogenes the Cynic Hot-Tubbing Society
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:31:36 GMT


John R. Levine wrote:

>> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I can also imagine filing a complaint
>> with the hospital asking why their outgoing phone calls, which would
>> frequently be of an urgent or emergency nature lack any identification
>> on them.

> Don't be silly, you answer the phone and they say "this is Dr. Whoever
> calling from the Pigeons of Mercy Hospital".  How much more ID do you
> want?  But they don't want you to call random extensions in the
> hospital when you call back, they want you to call the switchboard who
> knows how to locate people even though they're running all over the
> hospital.

I don't see this as a problem.  Don't all modern PBXes allow them to
send the CLID of the hospital's main number?  (If their PBX weren't
capable of this, chances are it wouldn't be sending CLID at all, and the
calls would display as "Out of Area" rather than "Anonymous".)

> When doctors return an after-hours call to the answering service from
> home, they always block CLID since they don't want random patients
> calling their home numnber.  That's equally not anonymous, even though
> the number they're calling from is equally none of your business.

This is why I feel that Caller ID ought to send the number from the
calling card (when one is used) rather than the location.

>> Why is the hospital essentially categorizing their phone calls in the
>> same way as a telemarketer, trying to hide themselves?   PAT]

I agree with this.  Blocked calls from telemarketers are common here.


John David Galt

------------------------------

From: Dave O'Shea <daveoshea@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Kill Advertising Windows
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:31:38 -0500


Jeff Colbert <jeff.colbert@removethispam.wcom.com> wrote in message
news:telecom19.222.6@telecom-digest.org:

> Go to the friendly folks at Siemans in Germany for a free utility that
> will kill pesky advertisements, and also act as a proxy server
> allowing multiple PC's to share an internet connection. I have been
> using it for a couple of weeks now and it works quite well and is easy
> to set up.

> http://www.siemens.de/servers/wwash/wwash_us.htm

> Surf geocities sites without hassle now!

It's free for non-commercial use, too.

Hats off to Siemens. It works well, though it's limited by the
instabilities of the Win95 platform I run it on. The only problem I
have noted is with some javascript sites, and a couple of site's like
MS's "windows update" site.

It also has the nice feature of stripping the "referrer" information
that's sent to the host, and can block animated GIF's. Good karma for
Siemens, I think. :-)


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I would appreciate some comparisons 
to http://telecom-digest.org/secret-surfer.html which also helps
disguise the user, and attempts to stop popup windows.   PAT]

------------------------------

From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steven J Sobol)
Subject: Re: Kill Advertising Windows
Date: 16 Jul 1999 23:03:33 GMT
Organization: North Shore Technologies Corp. 888.480.4NET


> Go to the friendly folks at Siemans in Germany for a free utility that
> will kill pesky advertisements

 ... in what context?


North Shore Technologies Corporation http://www.NorthShoreTechnologies.net
We don't just build websites; we build relationships!
815 Superior Ave. #610, Cleveland, OH 44114-2702 216.619.2NET 888.480.4NET
Host of the Forum for Responsible & Ethical E-mail http://www.spamfree.org

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:11:17 -0700
From: Derek Balling <dredd@megacity.org>
Subject: Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems


> That's one reason that some of the cable model suppliers put proxy
> servers at the head end.  For popular web pages, their subscribers see
> the best possible performance, without any issues of sharing the link
> out. It also has the advantage of reducing the bandwidth they need to
> support from each head end.

> I expect the DSL guys to learn the lesson and do it to.

"Best possible performance" is NOT always the case, by any stretch of the 
imagination. MANY Cable customers immediately reconfigure their browser 
after the tech leaves to ignore the proxy server. They do this, because by 
and large, the proxy server introduces FAR more problems than it solves. I 
have also noticed significantly BETTER performance going direct.

Also keep in mind that dynamic content SHOULDN'T be cached so in the modern 
world, the proxy server SHOULDN'T help you on the majority of web sites. 
Unfortunately, dynamic content IS cached, by and large, which means that 
instead of helping you it hinders you.

Companies (both Cable and xDSL) can feel free to invest their money in a 
proxy server, but they would be far better off investing those funds in 
better hardware for other areas...


D

------------------------------

From: Jonathan Seder <jonathan-nospam@syntel.com>
Subject: Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:29:59 -0700
Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com


I believe that with all cable modem systems, each different data rate
and direction gets its own frequency band.  All the users of a
particular data rate/direction share that single frequency band.  Thus,
all 100K/500K users are in effect on a single full-duplex
asymmetric-rate CSMA/CD LAN.

Like Ethernet, performance falls off dramatically as usage crosses
certain thresholds.  At the busy times of day - 5pm-9pm - individual
users may get only a small fraction of the total data rate.

The Palo Alto Cable Co-op network -- as of January -- was split into
five physical subnetworks, so the above setup actually happens five
times over.  I believe that the Cable Co-op head-end connections are
more than adequate to handle even the 2.5Mbps max aggregated data rate
for the 500K ("Bronze") customers.

I used to be a Cable Co-op customer but switched to Covad/Brainstorm
DSL which has performed much more reliably (albeit at much higher
cost).


Jonathan Seder

Joshua M.K. Masur wrote:

> As far as "degradation" -- i.e., demand effects on shared IP bandwidth
>  -- not all cable modem systems work the same way.  Here in Palo Alto,
> cable modem service via ISP Channel allocates dedicated bandwidth
> (starting at 500kbps downstream/100kbps up) back to the head end,
> rather than shared bandwidth at some theoretical higher speed.  Given
> the local cable operation's pending sale to AT&T, of course, this is
> likely to change.

------------------------------

From: sc1@roamer1.org (Stanley Cline)
Subject: Re: 1800SKYTEL2 Blocked in Las Vegas
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 23:41:06 GMT
Organization: by area code and prefix (NPA-NXX)
Reply-To: sc1@roamer1.org


On 16 Jul 1999 03:00:22 -0400, dannyb@panix.com (Danny Burstein)
wrote:

>	a) you could call their "regular" number, which, being in St.
> Louis, would usually be long distance (but not too outrageous if you

Actually, the SkyTel non-800 numbers are in Jackson, MS, home of
SkyTel -- and MCI WorldCom.  (Their HQs are a few blocks apart in
downtown Jackson.)


SC

------------------------------

From: alphabetagamma@hotmail.com (Tenexus)
Subject: Re: Canada's Namespace
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 01:13:48 GMT
Organization: Sprint Canada Inc.


On Fri, 16 Jul 1999 04:02:16 -0600, Joey Lindstrom <Joey@GaryNumanFan.
NU> wrote:

> The few companies that do have .ca addresses aren't terribly smart
> about it either.  For example, you can visit Sprint Canada's website by
> surfing to "www.sprintcanada.ca".  Isn't that a little redundant
> redundant?

Well, actually they do this because they use www.sprint.ca (and the
whole sprint.ca domain) for their MOST(TM) online Internet service.
So, this was just a decision made by someone at Sprint.


Neil

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #225
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Sat Jul 17 15:17:24 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA16399;
	Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:17:24 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:17:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907171917.PAA16399@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #226

TELECOM Digest     Sat, 17 Jul 99 15:17:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 226

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    BBC News Sci-Tech  Payphones go Online (Mike Pollock)
    How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California (Linc Madison)
    Canada Blitzed by Phone System Disruption (Joseph Singer)
    Re: Fire in Toronto Bell Infrastructure - Damage Very Severe (L. Raphael)
    Nokia (Cell Phone) vs. Car Stereo (Lauren Weinstein)
    Re: Nokia Incompatibility With Car Stereo (Juha Veijalainen)
    Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems (Koos van den Hout)
    Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems (Walter Dnes)
    Re: Split For 760 Area Code in California (Linc Madison)
    Re: Canada's Namespace (Joey Lindstrom)
    Last Laugh! Dead Cow DOA (Monty Solomon)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Pollock <pheel@sprynet.com>
Subject: BBC News Sci-Tech  Payphones go Online
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 13:10:55 -0400
Organization: It's A Mike!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_395000/395433.stm

[Photos and Audio available at above link]

Payphones go online
Net access by credit card or BT phone card
By Internet Correspondent Chris Nuttall

A new generation of payphones incorporating high-speed Internet access
has been launched in the UK.

The telecoms giant BT said it was setting up the world's first truly
national network of multimedia payphones, with 1,000 due to be in
place by March of next year and the first officially opened by the
model Caprice at London's Waterloo station on Thursday. Net payphones
exist in other countries, with the Netherlands closest to achieving a
country-wide network.

Ken Livingstone: You could vote with this.

Labour MP Ken Livingstone, bidding to be London's mayor, was on hand
at a news conference to praise the Multiphone for enabling easier Net
access to all and "breaking through a lot of the fears and worries
that people have."

Priced and placed for all?

But BT's minimum charge of 1 for 10 minutes' surfing (compared to 10p
for off-peak home phone calls and 1 an hour at the easyEverything
Internet shop) was criticised at the news conference and the company
was asked why it was not siting the terminals on council estates.

Malcolm Newing: "World first"

BT said the minimum charge was due to high development costs and the
Multiphones would be sited at first where there was "highest footfall" -
airports, railway stations, motorway service areas and shopping centres
across the UK.

"This is the first time that everyone in the UK will have the
opportunity to use online services 24 hours a day," said Malcolm
Newing, director of BT Payphones.

Type by screen

The Multiphone's features include:

Twelve-inch touch-sensitive colour screen. Users can type in URLs and
e-mails using the screen. BT will have a portal site as a home page
and uses Websense technology to block access to objectionable
material.

The Multiphone

ISDN2 connection, providing 64K bps Net access on one channel and phone
calls carried on the other.

Free information is provided on the screen without a Net connection
such as the latest news, sport, travel and an entertainment service.
Services to be added later this year include:

Videophony - users would be able to see as well as hear the person
they are calling, the first of these will be installed in the
Milllennium Dome.

Video e-mail - users can take a photo of themselves at the terminal and
attach it to an e-mail.

Local street guides will give users their exact location and help them
plan a route to where they are going.

A built-in printer - BT is still searching for one that can deliver
acceptable reliability.

Free directory enquiry information on screen.

Malcolm Newing said the Multiphone would fit in with BT's recent
announcement of multimedia kiosks with PhotoMe as there was going to be an
explosion of public Internet access terminals. the kiosk would have a seat
and could not be placed as easily as the Multiphone , he said.

But perhaps the most impressive feature of the Multiphone is what happens
when the screen freezes or Internet speeds slow to a crawl: no matter how
hard you hit it with the phone receiver in frustration, the vandal-proof
screen will not break!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:49:05 -0700
From: LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com (Linc Madison)
Subject: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California
Organization: LincMad Consulting


The California legislature is currently proceeding with a bill that
would not only reverse the 310/424 overlay (scheduled to go into
effect tomorrow, but postponed by the CPUC pending reconsideration),
but also prohibit all general-services overlays in California, making
thousands-block pooling and service-specific overlays (the usual
incompatible mish-mash of "cellular, pagers, faxes, and modems") the
official state policy, FCC be damned.

The current bill, AB 818 by Wally Knox, is pure foolishness, and
dangerous foolishness at that.  Thousands of lines were scheduled
to be turned on tomorrow, but those customers will just have to wait
(or switch telcos), since the CPUC and the legislature have thrown
those contracts into limbo.

The root problem is that people in L.A. are whining about having to
dial 1 + area code + number on all calls, including local calls
within the same area code.

In my comments before the CPUC roundtable on area code relief two
weeks ago, I proposed taking creative action to increase public
acceptance of overlays.  As I see it, it isn't so much the nuisance
of pressing four more keys to dial a number, as the increased
confusion of what constitutes a local call.  It's bad enough that
most people in metropolitan areas in California have several area
codes that are a mix of local and toll; overlays would add to the
soup.

My proposal:

1. Expand local calling radius to at least 17 miles, abolishing
the ZUM plan entirely.  All calls would be in one of three categories:
local, local toll (intra-LATA toll), or toll (inter-LATA toll).

2. Aggressively consolidate rate centers in metropolitan areas.
For example, Los Angeles zones 1 to 14 could be consolidated into
at most 5 zones, possibly 2 or even 1.  (Consolidating to one zone
would effectively erase the 213/323 split boundary, creating a
retroactive overlay.)  San Francisco zones 1 to 3 would become a
single zone.  East Bay 1 to 5 would become a single zone.

3. As overlays are implemented, allow permissive 10D/1+10D on
local calls at the same time that 7D calls are discontinued.
Continue to allow 1+10D on all calls, as today, because there
is no purpose to ever prohibiting it.  Consider requiring 1+10D
on toll calls, even in areas that are not overlaid.  (Unfortunately,
10D local and 7D local cannot coexist in California, due to some
conflicts in numbering.)

These proposals would make it much more clear whether a number was
local or toll (as well as increasing the local calling area to a
more reasonable radius), and give consumers a tangible benefit in
exchange for the inconvenience of an overlay.


** Do not send me unsolicited commercial e-mail spam of any kind **
Linc Madison  *  San Francisco, California  *   Telecom@LincMad-com
URL:< http://www.lincmad.com > * North American Area Codes & Splits
>> NOTE: replies sent to <Telecom@LincMad-com> will be read sooner!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 21:32:38 -0700
From: Joseph Singer <dov@oz.net>
Subject: Canada Blitzed by Phone System Disruption


TORONTO (Reuters) - Communications across Canada were thrown into
disarray Friday following an early morning explosion and three-alarm
fire at a Bell Canada phone service center in downtown Toronto.

The outage affected a large number of services, including telephone
lines, cell phones, bank machines and Internet lines. In Toronto, 911
emergency lines were disrupted.

Eyewitnesses reported communications disruptions in Ottawa, Montreal
and Toronto and as far afield as Halifax and Vancouver.

Bell Canada said technicians were back on-site and the company,
Canada's largest telephone carrier and a unit of BCE Inc., hoped to
have service restored around 1 p.m. EDT.

Authorities were asking Toronto-area residents not to use 911
emergency phone lines unless it was a matter of life or death. Some
bank branches and automatic teller machines were out of action in
downtown Toronto.

``There are phones in downtown Toronto and surrounding areas that have
been affected,'' Bell Canada spokeswoman Ann Mahdy told Reuters at the
scene.

Bell Canada declined to give any further details about the disruptions. 
Firefighters were called at 7:26 a.m. EDT to respond to a ninth-story
blaze at a Bell Canada facility after an explosion on the fourth
floor, a fire official told Reuters at the site.

Fourteen fire trucks and about 75 firefighters responded to the
call. What caused the explosion and fierce blaze is still unknown.

A 54-year-old electrician, earlier believed missing, was found and
rushed to a Toronto hospital but his condition was not known, a fire
official said. The blaze was under control by 10:16 a.m. EDT, he
added.

The fire official said the communications problems did not begin until
around 11 a.m. EDT.

The extent of the damage at the phone center was unknown, the
firefighter added. The incident is being investigated as a workplace
mishap, said Staff Sgt. John Sillaots of Toronto police.

The Toronto Stock Exchange, Canada's largest, was affected as some
securities firms had problems trying to place orders and trade through
the systems. But the exchange decided to stay open after considering
whether to shut down for the rest of the day.


Joseph Singer Seattle, Washington USA <mailto:dov@oz.net>
<http://welcome.to/dov> <http://wwp.mirabilis.com/460262> [ICQ pgr] +1
206 405 2052 [msg] +1 707 516 0561 [FAX] Seattle, Washington USA

------------------------------

From: raphael@lisa.cs.mcgill.ca (Louis Raphael)
Subject: Re: Fire in Toronto Bell Infrastructure - Damage Very Severe
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 02:54:15 GMT


pete (pete@tao.ca) wrote:

> There is no firm ETA when everything will be "normal". Emergency
> rerouting of the PSTN phone traffic (likely through New York!) has
> taken effect, however this stopgap solution cannot hope to connect
> everyone in Toronto at the same time. At one moment your server could
> be touching 60% of the net; the next you could be all alone.

Here at York University, on the northern outskirts of North York/Toronto
(I'm posting from McGill, but I'm really at York), we had a network
(ONet) outage this morning, but service came back some time later or
this afternoon, I didn't really notice. I was successful in making a
long-distance phone call (using a pre-paid calling card, of all
things) to Montreal, as well as a few local calls. I'm now telnet'ing
in to my account at lisa.cs.mcgill.ca, and network speeds appear to be
normal.

Somehow, a part of the phone network seems to be back up.

This is quite the day -- I understand that a freight train also
derailed near Cornwall today ...


Louis

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 99 00:09 PDT
From: lauren@vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: Nokia (Cell Phone) vs. Car Stereo


Greetings.  Celeste Tyree expresses concern that her Nokia 6160 cell
phone (which I'll note at this point is a TDMA IS-136 unit) interferes
with her car stereo.  I could get into all sorts of details about FCC
Type Acceptance and Radio Frequency Interference Class Designations
and such ... but the bottom line is that most likely nothing at all is
actually "wrong."

Devices that generate radio frequency energy create varying degrees of
interference in radio receivers, which themselves have various degrees
of interference rejection capability.  There are all sorts of rules
that specify what sorts of devices are allowed to accept or reject
what sorts of interference -- you've probably noticed labels about this
on all manner of consumer electronics.

You can pretty well count on the Nokia phone meeting all the standards.
It's also likely that the car stereo doesn't have particulary good
out-of-band rejection capability, which isn't normally a big issue.  Busy
digital systems like cell phones generate all sorts of RF hash.  The range
of that interference is very limited, but if you're just a few feet away
from a sensitive radio you're likely to overload it.  In fact, run your
typical digital cell phone within a couple of feet of a modern desk
telephone and you'll probably get the same sort of interference (I do!)

This doesn't mean that anything is wrong with the cell phones, the
desk phones, or the car stereo.  It does mean that modern electronics
has complex interference issues, which is why the standards regarding
this area are spelled out in considerable detail.


 --Lauren--
Lauren Weinstein
lauren@vortex.com
Moderator, PRIVACY Forum --- http://www.vortex.com
Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy
Host, "Vortex Daily Reality Report & Unreality Trivia Quiz"
  --- http://www.vortex.com/reality

------------------------------

From: juhave@iobox.fi (Juha Veijalainen)
Subject: Re: Nokia Incompatibility With Car Stereo
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 18:18:15 +0300
Organization: Jkarhuritarit


In article <telecom19.222.4@telecom-digest.org>, cmtyree@yahoo.com 
says ...

> I need to know if any one else out there has had the same problems
> that I have with a Nokia 6160 mobile phone.

> When I use (or even have the phone in my vehicle) the phone in my
> vehicle, I receive a loud hum from my car stereo.  I have found that
> it is worse when I'm playing a CD.  I don't have to worry about the
> volume of the ringer on my phone because I receive an alter from my
> car stereo.  It is so bad that I have to turn off the stereo before I
> answer the phone.  When I am not on the phone I find that the rear
> speaker will "crackle" intermittently.

6160 is probably a TDMA phone?  Pulsed transmission sometimes
interferes with poorly shielded or improperly installed equipment,
like your car radio.  And as you you wrote, in another car you did not
have the problem.

Basically any equipment with amplifier circuits may be susceptible to
this problem.  Also, my own experience shows that cheap equipment is
also usually the worst (my cheap desk phone at home picks up GSM
transmission from about 1 metres, more expensive phones at the office
don't pick up the interference at all).  Also, the older the
equipment, the less shielding against this type interference.

In my current one year old car, the factory installed radio does not
pick up GSM transmissions.  My two previous cars did not have factory
installed radios -- those radios (Blaupunkt and Sony) picked up
interference whenever someone used a phone in my car.  Maybe the
reason was faulty installation or just the fact that the radios were
older.

Best way to avoid interference is to use external antenna with hands
free set.  If the antenna/hands free is installed properly, there
should not be any interference to other equipment.

Also, I remember reading an article how to install/fix car radios
properly.  Unfortunately I do not remember the technical details -- was
it proper grounding or some kind of capacitor installation?


Juha Veijalainen, Helsinki, Finland, http://www.iki.fi/juhave/
Some random words: bomb,steganography,cryptography,reindeer
** Mielipiteet omiani ** Opinions personal, facts suspect **

------------------------------

From: Koos van den Hout <koos@kzdoos.xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems
Date: 17 Jul 1999 08:49:31 GMT
Organization: Koos van den Hout


Derek Balling <dredd@megacity.org> wrote:

> "Best possible performance" is NOT always the case, by any stretch of the 
> imagination. MANY Cable customers immediately reconfigure their browser 
> after the tech leaves to ignore the proxy server.

That is where the "transparant proxy" enters the picture. Using a
high-speed switch in the network core it is possible to reroute all
calls to port 80 through the proxy.

> Also keep in mind that dynamic content SHOULDN'T be cached so in the modern 
> world, the proxy server SHOULDN'T help you on the majority of web sites. 
> Unfortunately, dynamic content IS cached, by and large, which means that 
> instead of helping you it hinders you.

That means the originator of the dynamic content did not mark it as
dynamic content in the http headers. Using the correct "Expires:" and
"Pragma: no-cache" headers helps.

> Companies (both Cable and xDSL) can feel free to invest their money in a 
> proxy server, but they would be far better off investing those funds in 
> better hardware for other areas...

I wrote a plan for a proxy server for a large educational institute
where the right proxy will save us approximately 25% bandwidth and
associated bandwidth costs (this figure was based on measurements of
how much port 80 traffic is part of total traffic and on the effect-
iveness of a proxy already serving part of the institute). With the
(European) bandwidth costs that means that a large hardware cache
(NetCache) would pay itself back in one year.


  Koos van den Hout,                           PGP key via keyservers
  koos@kzdoos.xs4all.nl (Home)
  koos@pizza.hvu.nl (Work)
  http://web.cetis.hvu.nl/~koos/

------------------------------

From: waltdnes@interlog.com (Walter Dnes)
Subject: Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 05:41:31 GMT
Organization: Interlog Internet Services


On Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:48:43 GMT, craigp@world.std.com (Craig
Partridge) wrote:

> That's one reason that some of the cable model suppliers put
> proxy servers at the head end.  For popular web pages, their
> subscribers see the best possible performance, without any
> issues of sharing the link out. It also has the advantage of
> reducing the bandwidth they need to support from each head end.

>I expect the DSL guys to learn the lesson and do it to.

This isn't a cable or xDSL or dial-up or ISDN issue.  It's an *ISP*
issue.  *ANY ISP*, regardless of the "engine under the hood", will see
improved performance with a caching proxy.


Walter Dnes <waltdnes@interlog.com> procmail spamfilter
http://www.interlog.com/~waltdnes/spamdunk/spamdunk.htm
Why a fiscal conservative opposes Toronto 2008 OWE-lympics
http://www.interlog.com/~waltdnes/owe-lympics/owe-lympics.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:55:06 -0700
From: LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com (Linc Madison)
Subject: Re: Split For 760 Area Code in California
Organization: LincMad Consulting


In article <telecom19.220.13@telecom-digest.org>, black@csulb.edu
(Matthew Black) wrote:

>> I'm rather surprised at the decision to give the new code to the more
>> urban part of 760.  In particular, if the region continues its
>> opposition to overlays, in six years you'll have people who changed
>> from 213 to 714 to 619 to 760 to (new), and who will be facing yet
>> another change.

> Seems only fair to me.  Should those communities creating excessive
> demand for new numbers bear the brunt of area code splits?  I feel
> those communities with cell phones and pagers should get the new area
> codes first.  IMHO, I feel the 760 plan is most justified.

That would be reasonable *IF* the plan moved, say, the 35 or 40% of
area code 760 with the highest growth rates into a new code.  The
problem is that the majority of the current 760 numbers will change.
That is unusual, and not justified.

The goal of area code relief planning is to minimize disruptions to
customers.  Making a significant chunk of people change twice so that
a smaller number of people don't have to change, doesn't make sense.


** Do not send me unsolicited commercial e-mail spam of any kind **
Linc Madison  *  San Francisco, California  *   Telecom@LincMad-com
URL:< http://www.lincmad.com > * North American Area Codes & Splits
>> NOTE: replies sent to <Telecom@LincMad-com> will be read sooner!

------------------------------

From: Joey Lindstrom <Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 06:52:56 -0600
Reply-To: Joey Lindstrom <Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU>
Subject: Re: Canada's Namespace


On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 01:19:26 -0400 (EDT), Neil wrote:

>> The few companies that do have .ca addresses aren't terribly smart
>> about it either.  For example, you can visit Sprint Canada's website by
>> surfing to "www.sprintcanada.ca".  Isn't that a little redundant
>> redundant?

> Well, actually they do this because they use www.sprint.ca (and the
> whole sprint.ca domain) for their MOST(TM) online Internet service.
> So, this was just a decision made by someone at Sprint.

When www.sprint.ca was first activated, they didn't have an internet
service to sell -- surfing to it got you redirected to www.sprintcanada.ca.

Which leads to another question: how can one company have two .ca
domains, when that's clearly against the rules?  Answer: they (the .ca
registrars) allow for exceptions where it may not be clear to a
customer which name to use.  For example, Coca-Cola would be permitted
to register coke.ca and cocacola.ca.  So, they allow sprint.ca and
sprintcanada.ca, but they would NOT allow themost.ca because that's
just a service provided by that company, and we can't allow that now
can we?  Similarly, Coca-Cola could not register sprite.ca.

Oh, and they'll also let you have two domains if your company name is
spelled differently in French and English.  :-)


 From the messy desktop of Joey Lindstrom
 Email: Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU or joey@lindstrom.com
 Phone: +1 403 313-JOEY
 FAX:   +1 413 643-0354 (yes, 413 not 403)
 Visit The NuServer!  http://www.GaryNumanFan.NU
 Visit The Webb!      http://webb.GaryNumanFan.NU

 At the all-you-can-eat barbecue, you have to pay the regular dinner price
 if you eat less than you can.
         --Steven Wright

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 13:25:31 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Last Laugh! Dead Cow DOA


http://thestandard.com/articles/mediagrok_display/0,1185,5542,00.html 


Dead Cow DOA

When you can't trust a clandestine cult of hackers who distribute
cracking software on CDs, whom can you trust?

Windows NT administrators were probably really looking forward to the
release of Back Orifice 2000. As noted in Grok last Friday, the Cult of
the Dead Cow produced the software and distributed it from DefCon, the
hacker conference held last weekend in Las Vegas. Dead Cow said it was
just a network-administration tool designed to expose security holes in
NT, which Microsoft could then fix. Who wouldn't want that?

But the tech press broke the bad news that the CD on which Back Orifice
2000 was distributed also carried the harmful Chernobyl virus, CIH.
ZDNet blew the story all the way out with two reporters on the byline
and an image of an infected CD. News.com was a bit more restrained, but
still featured it on its top center graphic. News.com's Tim Clark quoted
an e-mail from Dead Cow member Omega that said, "It was not our plan to
do this; and frankly, it makes us look like idiots."

Hackers Admit Virus in "Trojan Horse" Disk
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,39272,00.html?st.ne.fd.gif.e

Back Orifice CDs Infected with CIH Virus
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2294628,00.html


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: If it was not 'their plan' to
distribute the virus in this sneaky way, then *who's plan* was it? I
am not entirely convinced it was not 'their plan' originally, and then
when some people in the media found out about it, all of a sudden Dead
Cow started making disclaimers and acting like the injured party in
the whole thing. All of a sudden they discover that their Back Orifice
has been tampered with when it fact it was their real plan to give
everyone else a pain up their back orifices until they got caught
trying to sneak up on a few people. 

If it indeed was not 'their plan' to do this, then I think everyone
would be interested to find out what sort of warped mind; what sort of
sick person would have thought up the scheme to not only infect as
many computers as possible with the virus but besmirch the reputation
of Dead Cow as well at the same time.  PAT]

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #226
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Sun Jul 18 20:03:04 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA08340;
	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:03:04 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:03:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907190003.UAA08340@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #227

TELECOM Digest     Sun, 18 Jul 99 20:03:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 227

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson


    30th Anniversaries - Both Happy and Sad (TELECOM Digest Editor)
    Re: www. Prefixes (James Bellaire)
    Re: www. Prefixes (Walter Dnes)
    www.PAT == PAT (Michael Spencer)
    Re: Toronto(416)'s New Area Code? (Linc Madison)
    Isotec Terminals (Alain Chagnon)
    Telecom Term Paper (Brad Davey)
    Just a Question About New Area Codes (EclectiJim)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Tony Toews)
    Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems (Derek Balling)
    Re: Split For 760 Area Code in California (Joel B. Levin)
    Re: 1800SKYTEL2 Blocked in Las Vegas (Travis Dixon)
    Century 21 (Derrick Balling)
    Hackers Turn Against Their Own Kind (TELECOM Digest Editor)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:34:04 EDT
From: TELECOM Digest Editor <ptownson@telecom-digest.org>
Subject: 30th Anniversaries - Both Happy and Sad


As I write this on Sunday early afternoon, the United States Coast Guard
and others continue their search for John Kennedy and others in the
plane crash which occurred late Friday night. Through an odd and
very cruel twist of fate, as the Kennedy family grieves in seclusion
at their home on Martha's Vineyard, today marks the thirtieth anniversary
of another Kennedy family tragedy: On this date in 1969, Senator Ted
Kennedy was involved in the automobile accident which caused the death
of Mary Jo Kopeckne when his car plunged off the bridge and into the
water. This incident and the allegations surrounding it virtually
assured that Ted Kennedy would never become president of the USA. 

But it was also this third week of July, in 1969 that American astronauts
first went to the moon. Their trip began on July 16, and reached its
high point four days later on July 20, 1969 when they left their 
ship and first stepped out onto the surface of the moon. Later today
I intend to release a special issue of the Digest commemorating that
occassion with a reprint from this Digest in 1994 on the 25th anniver-
sary of the occassion.

Also included will be Don Kimberlin's fascinating account of the role
he played in the telecommunications needed to make the moonwalk
possible. An exhibit now open in the Telecom Archives which is the
HTML-ized version of Don's report, along with hundreds of photos from
the Apollo-Saturn 11 voyage can be seen at:

       http://telecom-digest.org/camelot-on-the-moon.html

I hope you like it.


Patrick Townson

------------------------------

From: bellaire@tk.com (James Bellaire)
Subject: Re: www. Prefixes
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 10:00:19 GMT


It was Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:44:54 -0700, and Derek J. Balling
<dredd@megacity.org> wrote in comp.dcom.telecom:

>> That is obvious.  But it is also obvious that the primary means of
>> connecting over the Internet has moved to HTTP.  I believe that the
>> main machine in a domain (any one using the "root" domain as a name)
>> should support http -- if only by forwarding it to the proper server.

> So even though a particular machine may be something as completely 
> specialized as a Cisco router, you would burden it with the overhead of 
> maintaining a miniature web server, just because you're too lazy to think 
> about the FQDN of the machine you want to connect to?

You would name a router with the root name?  That really seems silly.
Who outside of your tech staff even needs to know the name of your
router?  A name like sl-gw9-chi-5-2-1544k.sprintlink.net is fine for
a router, and the ROOT machine is the only one I suggest MUST have
HTTP.  Putting a Cisco under the root name would allow people to
easily find it by using "telnet example.com".  Not good.

>> Load sharing between machines in the domain can easily be handled.
>> Only the user needs to know the name pop.example.com or
>> smtp.example.com or mail.example.com -- others just write to
>> user@example.com and MX records do the rest.

> Right. Instead of pushing for abolition of www. which will never happen, 
> why not write up an RFC to add a new DNS record "WWW", which would say "if 
> someone wants the web server for <domain>, they really want: 
> www.domain.com, or sales.domain.com or whatever. You could even do some 
> slick stuff like:

> @ 	IN 	WWW	5  www.ourdomain.com
> 	IN	WWW	10 wwwbackup.ourdomain.com

Ok -- now we would (theoretically) have an MX style record for every
domain.  Which wouldn't be too bad -- but it would require the redesign
of every browser in existance.  That has little chance of happening.

>> It has been many moons since I used gopher, and ftp is acceptable
>> at the beginning of that kind of connection.

> Just as is "www" ...

Unlike Pat, I accept both.  But I prefer no WWW.

>> I made sure that both
>> domains I set up work without the www, and would not accept service
>> from an ISP that refused to do otherwise.

> If a customer specifically requests that their domain work without the
> www, then any ISP who refused is an idiot, because it is the
> customer's domain, if they want to burn their root domain to be their
> web site that is their privilege. Personally, I would want to be a
> little more forward-thinking than that ... you never know what the
> future might hold that you would want to keep the root-domain
> "untarnished" for...

Just get your router / firewall to route based on port.  80 goes to
the old web machine, 443 to your secure server, 70 to that gopher that
hasn't come out of its hole in several years, 21 to the ftp box, 23 to
the telnet, etc.  By the time http goes away the rest of technology
will catch up with the needs of the users.  (We may even have IPv6
if we are lucky - lotsa numbers!)

I still remember when my ISP was small enough that all the services
ran easily off of the same machine and all those FQDN prefixes were
not needed at all.  Now they have pop. mail. smtp. news. www. members.
ftp. telnet. - a bit confusing and a lot more to remember and type.

> You and I have no idea what the most popular method of internet use
> will be 10 years from now. Just as it is "www" today, it might be
> "cas" tomorrow or something else, who knows. Using your plan, sites
> would have to be "one or the other" since they can only commit their @
> domain to a single service...  using the accepted norm allows
> flexibility of growth and adaptability to change going forward.

The root machine can support more than one service.  So what will the
'next' protocol be?  We had a couple of years warning on HTTP.

>> Yes the Internet is more than http/www.  But the trend now is making
>> http the primary form.  Put your mail on mail. and your news on news.,
>> and let http reside on the 'root' CNAMEd machine.

> Why do you insist that the web is the primary form? Actually, I think
> the figures still dictate that e-mail is the most popular use of the
> net, and I strongly suspect that if accurate figures were dictated
> that "on-line gaming" as a whole probably generates lots more
> bandwidth than web surfing (but I can't back that up, just a hunch).

Mail has intelligent software with MX records.  You can email me
@TK.COM with little thought to my mail server's real name.  (And the
way it is set up, you could email to bellaire@whatever.tk.com and
still get connected.  The magic of domain mail.

You can also visit http://BELLAIRE@TK.COM/ and get to my site, because
I had the foresight to demand that the root of the domain went to the
server.  (http://editor@telecom-digest.org/ also works.)

p>> It makes it a ton easier to say and write.

> I have to quote my High School Journalism teacher:

> "The easiest way is very seldom the best way. Learn this and you will
> do great in life."
> 	- M.Habernig

But "the easy way" reflects the new breed of (how can I say this
nicely?) technically incompetent users.

A client ran an ad a while back that said "visit our website at
example.com or email contest@example.com" (using the proper names).
Guess what percentage of people typed contest@example.com into the
GO TO field on their browser? [1]  Should I have ruled them out
because they didn't understand the net?  The users got the information
they wanted, the client got hits and not errors, and I got a laugh out
of it.

The end goal of communication is getting the message across.  If that
means pulling a few technical tricks like root naming the web server
I don't mind.

Final note: Please note that mail to @whatever.tk.com may fail on
systems that try to find the MX for each machine instead of routing
the domain mail to the domain's MS server.


James Bellaire
http://tk.com/telecom/
[1] Answer:  5-10%

------------------------------

From: waltdnes@interlog.com (Walter Dnes)
Subject: Re: www. Prefixes
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 05:54:09 GMT
Organization: Interlog Internet Services


On Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:22:33 GMT, bellaire@tk.com (James Bellaire)
wrote:

> It was Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:19:37 -0700, and Derek J. Balling
> <dredd@megacity.org> wrote in comp.dcom.telecom:

>>> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Good for you. Better still, fix it so
>>> the 'www' causes it to bounce if someone does try to use it.  I do not
>>> know what you would get by entering http://www.telecom-digest.org
>>> since I have never tried it. Personally, if you do try it, I hope it
>>> makes your browser crash. :)  Did I ever mention I hate 'www' ??

>> Repeat after me:
>>            The Internet is not just the web.

> That is obvious.  But it is also obvious that the primary means of
> connecting over the Internet has moved to HTTP.

  In the past few years, yes.  Before that it was gopher.  Before that
it was ftp, which is still quite popular.  So what do you want people
to do when the next "latest and greatest" internet protocol comes
along?  Network admins really have better things to do than change DNS
every few years just for the heck of it.


Walter Dnes <waltdnes@interlog.com> procmail spamfilter
http://www.interlog.com/~waltdnes/spamdunk/spamdunk.htm
Why a fiscal conservative opposes Toronto 2008 OWE-lympics
http://www.interlog.com/~waltdnes/owe-lympics/owe-lympics.htm


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: You almost quoted word for word in
your statement 'change DNS every few years for the heck of it' some
grafitti I saw several years ago. I was working with a small group
of people who were interested in maintaining the clock and bell tower
of Holy Family Church on the near west side of Chicago. Although the
church itself is one of Chicago's oldest structures and pre-dates
the fire by a few years, the existing tower clock and bells were
installed in 1921. 

Among the quaint mechanicals of the whole thing there in the tower was
the bell, one ton in weight, a huge thing which sounded when a large
metal arm about six feet in height would strike it from the side. This
was done by a chain-drive mechanism and some gears in the machine room
of the clock itself which was located on the sixth floor of the ten
story high tower. The chains wound their way up the shaft to where
they connected with a so-called 'universal gear' which in turn moved
the arms on the four faces of the clock. When the clock reached the
hour mark, the gears would engage in such a way that relays would
contact on a board nearby with a 'bang!' and a motor would turn on
that proceeded to move the 'hammer' back and forth to strike the bell
for the appropriate count. Then the gears would disengage, the relays
would drop, the motor would shut off, and the hammer would stop
hitting against the bell. All quite 1920-ish in the mechanicals and
the electric relay panel, etc. Upstairs on the tenth floor, where the
bell itself sat directly below the four sides of the clock a neatly
typewritten notice in a glass frame was attached to the wall with a
'notice from the manufacturer'. The manufacturer had been a company
called 'Southworth Bell and Clock Company' in some town in England.

It noted, 'to properly care for this installation, it is recommended
that the Sexton or other persons responsible for its care rotate the
bell one-quarter turn every forty years so that the bell wears evenly
on all sides.'  That often? Once every forty years?  And some witty
person had written in pencil on the wall next to it, 'I have better
things to do than have to run up here every forty years moving that
thing around. I have a life of my own, you know.'

A telephone which had probably been there forty years ago was mounted
on the wall next to it. One of the original six-button, five-line
type key sets from Western

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 02:24:34 EDT
From: Michael Spencer <mspencer@MIT.EDU>
Subject: www.PAT == PAT


Hi --

www.telecom-digest.org and telecom-digest.org both resolve to the same
numerical IP address on MIT DNS servers.  

Since you've never heard from me before, perhaps I should say I read
the Digest on Usenet.  I have a dial phone and a simpleminded little
MS-DOS hack so I can wade through "Press 1 now to talk to a weenie..."
stuff using my modem.  The Digest is enlightening.  Also a substitute
for Stephen King: I'm absolutely horrified at the complications
involved in calling Granny or using a pay phone in the USA.  Ah,
Canada.


Regards,

Michael Spencer             Nova Scotia, Canada
                            
mspencer@mit.edu            
URL: http://www.mit.edu:8001/people/mspencer/home.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:36:28 -0700
From: LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com (Linc Madison)
Subject: Re: Toronto(416)'s New Area Code?
Organization: LincMad Consulting


In article <telecom19.218.1@telecom-digest.org>,
kevina_toronto1@my-deja.com wrote:

> Does anyone have any information on Toronto's new area code?  I noticed
> that http://www.647.com/ has been reserved, could it be Bell Canada???
> for advertising the new area code???

No, actually, 647.com belongs to a company near Montreal.  However, it may
be intended for something related to the new 647 area code for Toronto.

> I have also noticed I can dial all
> local numbers as 10-digit numbers does that mean 10-digit dialing is
> going to be forced on us

Yes.

> before year end???

No.

> I which the code could have been 649 ( 6/49 is a popular lottery
> here!!!)  With such a code people would be less likely to resist the
> area code.

6/49 is a popular lottery in a lot of places, although California's is
6/51 (having originally been 6/49 and then 6/53) and Ireland's was 6/39
last I checked.

In any case, 647 has the advantage that it is not a prefix in use in
416 or 905; on the other hand, there is a 905-649 prefix, which would
cause a conflict between 649-xxxx and 649-xxx-xxxx when calling from
the 905 area.
 
> I have read somewhere on the net that 942 is also reserved for Toronto
> as a future area code in a few years?  If so why not just have a three
> way split now instead of a overlay???  ie.  Toronto, East York, and York
> to keep "416" and wireless, Etobicoke to move to 942, and North York to
> 647, and Scarborough to 437(which I read is also reserved for Toronto)??
> Why wait a few years for the pain of a split, why not just split now
> enough to last a dozen years based on projections???  why not just split
> the reserved area codes right now!!   Hey I wouldn't mind a new area
> code?

Your split would not be very even.  You're leaving far more than half
the numbers in 416.  Also, a split wouldn't be along borough lines, it
would be along arbitrary telephone exchange boundaries, which have no
particular significance to most people.

> Also as per info from Bell.  1+ numbers except for 1-800, 1-888, 1-877,
> 1-866, etc are toll numbers.  As such any overlay would be 10-digit not
> 11 digit.  In Toronto(416) if we want to dial Markham we dial
> 905-xxx-xxxx, however if we want to dial Hamilton we dial
> 1-905-xxx-xxxx.  if we dial a local 905 number as 1+ we get a message do
> not dial 1+ before the number you are dialing!!

Requiring 1+ on toll numbers is fine.  It serves a legitimate purpose
in protecting consumers from unintended toll calls.  Prohibiting 1+ on
local numbers is just idiotic.  It serves no purpose at all, other
than protecting consumers from accidentally getting a call for free
that they thought might cost money.  There is no excuse for
prohibiting 1+ on local calls.


** Do not send me unsolicited commercial e-mail spam of any kind **
Linc Madison  *  San Francisco, California  *   Telecom@LincMad-com
URL:< http://www.lincmad.com > * North American Area Codes & Splits
>> NOTE: replies sent to <Telecom@LincMad-com> will be read sooner!


------------------------------

From: a_chagnon@videotron.ca (Alain Chagnon)
Subject: Isotec Terminals
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 14:16:33 GMT


Anybody knows a good terminal emulator that can replace an Isotec
terminal?


Thanks,

Alain Chagnon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:20:16 EDT
From: Brad Davey <bwdavey@yahoo.com>
Subject: Telecom Term Paper


Patrick,

     My name is Brad, and I am a grad student at SMU in telecomm-
unications.  I am working on a term paper now, and I need some help.
My topic is the leasing of Local Exchange Carriers lines -- how it
works, will competition work, etc.  Are there any books or articles
you can think of to help me?


Thanks,

Brad

------------------------------

From: eclectijim@aol.comnsp (EclectiJim)
Date: 17 Jul 1999 15:55:16 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Just a Question About New A


If it is due to the proliferation of cellular phones and other
portables that new area codes are constantly being thrust upon us,
couldn't these hand-helds be given area codes of their own? I've been
caught twice now with personal and business letterhead, envelopes and
fax cover sheets with a no-longer-valid area code.


Big Brothers (Guv, Biz & Labor) are watching you.


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Your suggestion is a good one which
has been raised time and again over the past several years of area
code proliferation. It has been repeatedly opposed by the wireless
phone industry and others who feel it it would an unfair burden on
themselves and their customers to require that calls in/out of
their system require ten digit numbers with an area code while the
traditional telephone companies and their customers were able to
call each other locally with only seven digits. It was better they
felt that instead of inconveniencing a few people for the good of
all it was better to inconvenience everyone so that all customers
could be treated -- or mistreated! -- equally.   PAT]

------------------------------

From: ttoews@telusplanet.net (Tony Toews)
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Organization: Me, organized?  Not a chance.
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 01:10:03 GMT


dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au (David Clayton) wrote:

>> Note that some countries such as Australia have further subdivided
>> their name space.
>> for instance: WWW.QANTAS.COM.AU (or is it www.qantas.co.au ?)

> That's just the "standard" TLD's with a country code on the end, which
> seems the standard around the rest of the world.

Not really.  Here in Canada its abc.ab.ca for Alberta, Canada or
abc.ca for Canada.  In the UK it's abc.co.uk.


Tony Toews, Independent Computer Consultant
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at 
   http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
VolStar http://www.volstar.com Manage hundreds or 
   thousands of volunteers for special events.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 17:45:15 -0700
From: Derek Balling <dredd@megacity.org>
Subject: Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems


> That is where the "transparant proxy" enters the picture. Using a
> high-speed switch in the network core it is possible to reroute all
> calls to port 80 through the proxy.

There is NO such thing as a transparent proxy. (Well, there is a
single box, I think by Paul Vixie that is truly transparent). In 99%
of the cases, the web server can tell a proxy is in use (or rather can
tell that it is NOT a particular user's machine).

Any ISP who actually subjected my packets to a transparent proxy like
that would pretty quickly find themselves minus one customer, IF I
didn't decide to sue them under the ECPA (Electronic Communications
Privacy Act). The use of a transparent proxy is not "required for the
providing of service", so therefore, the ISP who examines your packets
(to say, www.yahoo.com's port 80) without your explicit written
permission or a court order is asking for a VERY large lawsuit.

I wonder if they even MAKE transparent proxies these days, now that I
come to think of it ... certainly can't be too safe of a market if a
customer decided to remind the ISP who was boss. ;-)

> That means the originator of the dynamic content did not mark it as
> dynamic content in the http headers. Using the correct "Expires:" and
> "Pragma: no-cache" headers helps.

You keep thinking that. ;-) I can cite many cases, first-hand, where
very dynamic content that obeys all the rules gets completely hosed by
proxies.  I have quite a lot of practical experience in this matter,
both from the web-content side (where I currently work at a web site
that is ranked consistently from #1-3 depending on your method of
determining rank) and from the proxy-server side (when I was forced
against my will and written objections to deploy one at a Cable ISP
former employer). Proxy servers are nothing but trouble for all
parties concerned.

> I wrote a plan for a proxy server for a large educational institute
> where the right proxy will save us approximately 25% bandwidth and
> associated bandwidth costs (this figure was based on measurements of
> how much port 80 traffic is part of total traffic and on the effect-
> iveness of a proxy already serving part of the institute). With the
> (European) bandwidth costs that means that a large hardware cache
> (NetCache) would pay itself back in one year.

If your plan included a transparent proxy server, please don't forget
to in2clude legal costs of fighting the ECPA in court as well as the
lost revenue of customers who just get annoyed and leave. Although
admittedly you do reference European costs so you may not have to
contend with that legislation in your particular case, but I think
that most of Europe have similar laws on the books these days, don't
they?

If your plan only included a "regular" (opt-in) proxy, did your plan
take into consideration that generally proxy servers get ignored by
about 50% of the user populace due to the servers lessening their
performance?

There is more to things than the bottom line. I'd gladly pay a company
a few bucks more a month to have someone who understands that them
should just throw bandwidth at the problem instead of trying to make
my packets conform to what THEY think Internet traffic is like.


D

------------------------------

From: levinjb@gte.net (Joel B Levin)
Subject: Re: Split For 760 Area Code in California
Organization: On the desert
Reply-To: levinjb@gte.net
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 19:46:21 GMT


In <telecom19.226.9@telecom-digest.org>, LincMad001@telecom-digest.
zzn.com (Linc Madison) wrote:

> The goal of area code relief planning is to minimize disruptions to
> customers.  Making a significant chunk of people change twice so that
> a smaller number of people don't have to change, doesn't make sense.

In my (minority) view, the real answer to this is to go to overlays
and make people bite the bullet of dialing 10 or 11 digits.  They will
only have to take that hit ONCE; then nothing changes if new area
codes are added, except that new area codes have to be learned, but
that happens anyhow.  Meanwhile, no one has to learn different habits,
no one has to have their number changed, and any future updates (that
still use the existing numbering plan) can be made with impunity.


JBL

------------------------------

From: Travis Dixon <travisd@clark.net>
Subject: Re: 1800SKYTEL2 Blocked in Las Vegas
Organization: None of Your Business
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 21:48:01 GMT


Flor Riklef <rik.flor@abbott.com> wrote:

> I just got back from the Black Hat Briefings/DefCon in Las Vegas and
> noticed an interesting problem.

> I stayed at the Venetian, which has Sprint payphones.  The phones
> apparently block 1-800-SKYTEL2, which is used with my SkyTel two-way
> pager.

This is Skytel blocking -- not them. Skytel decided that when payphone
vendors started billing them usage charges for 800# calls that they
would block these calls to their shared line. If you upgrade to a
personal 800# on your pager then you can receive those calls.
Payphone surcharges will be added to *your* bill.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 00:22:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Derek Balling <dredd@megacity.org>
Subject: Century 21


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I was thinking along those lines, but
> not sure where to start it or quite how to implement it. As of yet,
> I've not received any responses from anyone willing to do it. I do
> believe TELECOM Digest has a challenge however, as we enter Century 21
> in just a little over five months.

ARRRRRGGGGHHHH!!

We enter the 21st Century in a little over SEVENTEEN months.

There WAS no year zero, so century 1 was 1..100, 2 was 101..200, etc,
up to 20 which is 1901..2000. 21st will begin on 1/1/2001.

You're not alone in this, Pat, by any stretch of the imagination, and
I'm sure you recognize this fact full-well, but let's try NOT to be
intellectual lemmings and follow the unwashed masses in their
collective delusion about when the 21st century starts. ;-)


D


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I am not unwashed. I took a bath just
last week. I have heard all the arguments which say 'there was no
year zero so we need to pick up the zeroeth year on the back end in
order to complete the century' many times. That would be all well
and good except you puritans are forgetting a few things about the
history of calendars and time-keeping itself.

Just as there was no year numbered 'zero' neither were there years
numbered 1 through 525 except as an intellectual exercise which was
later found defective. In the sixth century, the pope at that time
asked one of his scholars and advisors named Dennis The Short (well,
that's roughly how we would translate his name today) to detirmine
the basis for what would be termed the Christian Era. Dennis decided
it had begun 525 years previously. At that time, the consensus was
that it occurred in the second century of the Roman Era. As this was
now the eighth century of the Roman Era, the figures seemed right
and the pope decreed that henceforth the years would be counted from
525 upward. So whatever year it was R.E. was followed by the year
526 C.E. starting the next March 21, which was the day considered
to be the start of the new year in those times.

It went along that way for a millenium until the sixteenth century
when Pope Gregory decided to look things over. His scholars and
advisors found some problems. For one, the Romans had gotten things
all screwed up and now they were about ten days on the calendar
out of synch with what planet Earth was actually doing. For another,
it appears that Dennis from a millenium earlier had miscalculated
things and lost four years somehow in his chronology of events.

Later over in England, Archbishop James Ussher was trying to prove to
everyone's satisfaction that the earth had been created on October
23, 4004 BC at nine o'clock in the morning. He also found the errors
in the work Dennis had done earlier. After a few years of squabbling
back and forth between King James and the pope on the subject of
'what to do about the calendar' among other matters, they finally
decided to accelerate the calendar eleven days to catch up with 
reality and to make subsequent adjustments, should they be required
on a more timely basis. Regards the problem of the four years that
somehow got overlooked, they just made a few 'paper adjustments'
so that things added up correctly. 

So as ludicrous as it may sound to say that Christ was born in the
year 4 (B)efore (C)hrist, i.e. 4 BC, that's the way it is written
up today in almanacs, the Christian scriptures, and other references 
to the history of that era. They had to do something with those four
years, so they just put them in a theoretical place somewhere between
plus one and minus four. Now today, we refer to the present year by
the number '1999' **by common agreement only** with no historical
or mathematical proof that it is correct. History would in fact lead
us to believe we should refer to the present year as '2003'.

My belief is that since we are not considered one year old on the day
that we are born and that twelve months has to pass before we are
entitled to claim '1', that the Christian Era -- since that is how
we choose to number things now -- began at the time of the birth
of the historic Jesus, twelve months prior to '1'; a year prior to
the year known as '1'. It was a year we would now perhaps call zero
although it was known by some other name at that time. None the less,
that period of time existed, and rightfully is part of our current
frame of reference. Therefore, two thousand years have passed as of
this coming December 31. Therefore, two milleniums have passed *at
a minimum*; one could say we are three years into the new millenium
already. There was no 'zero' only because they had no real under-
standing of what 'zero' meant. And if you think it was a problem back
in the 16th century trying to reconcile those four missing years,
think how much more of a problem it would be to attempt it today.  

By the way, FYI, new milleniums ALWAYS begin on a Wednesday or a
Saturday. I liked it better when they started on Mondays or
Thursdays (1-1-1000 was Monday, 1-1-'zero' was Thursday) but then
with that calendar adjustment the pope decreed, these special
days changed to Wednesdays and Saturdays starting this time around
until forever. Go ahead, run 'cal' on your unix box if you don't
believe me and the pope, perhaps you will believe the computer.

You're welcome.  You are also welcome to take a bath and go to bed
early on Friday night, December 31 if you wish and consider yourself
washed and the occassion just another New Year's Eve like any other.
PAT]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:41:52 EDT
From: TELECOM Digest Editor <ptownson@telecom-digest.org>
Subject: Hackers Turn Against Their Own Kind


The convention this past week featured a web site which was put up
as a way of letting people know what was going on. The first day
it was up, someone hacked it! The thinking is that the hacking was
done by some European hackers who were angry that they could not 
raise the money to come to the USA for the convention. Maybe so.

Then as Monty Solomon pointed out in the prior issue of this Digest,
the whole thing ended on a very sour note when 'someone' messed up
their 'Back Orifice' product by slipping a virus on the CD given out
to the media and others. I wonder if they have figured out who did
that? Maybe they decided to blame that on 'those European hackers'
also. 

I know what happened! That dangerous, very evil, menace to the comm-
unity Kevin Mitnick did it, using a prisoner phone where they have
him in custody. He whistled in the phone at the proper pitch and
frequency causing the computer on the other end to install that virus
on the CD. He is also responsible for hacking DefCon's web site
earlier in the week. 

Now the authorities will have to postpone his sentencing hearing for
another three years while they evaluate how many millions of dollars
in damages were inflicted on the Dead Cow organization. If I were
those Dead Cow people, I'd be the one to go on the lam, or as I
sometimes say, into seclusion. They certainly did not win any new
friends after that debacle with Back Orifice.


PAT

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #227
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Sun Jul 18 22:37:39 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA14045;
	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:37:39 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:37:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907190237.WAA14045@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #228

TELECOM Digest     Sun, 18 Jul 99 22:37:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 228

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Phone Service Restored Following Fire (Joseph Kee)
    Canada Phone Lines Nearly Fixed After Fire (Monty Solomon)
    Re: Nokia Incompatibility With Car Stereo (Alan Boritz)
    Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers? (Alan Boritz)
    Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers? (Adam H. Kerman)
    Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California (Horsley)
    Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California (Lichter)
    Loud Cordless Phones (richard1942@my-deja.com)
    Interface Standard Set(s) to Wireless Telephone (D. Snow)
    Re: BellSouth MemoryCall Fails (David A. Burton)
    Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple (Thor L.Simon)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Adam H. Kerman)
    Re: The Crisis at Pacifica Radio (Greg Monti)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Kee <joekee100@hotmail.com>
Subject: Phone Service Restored Following Fire
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 01:58:35 EDT


Pat, I found this at www.bell.ca.  It doesn't look as bad as your
first post on Friday said.

Phone service restored following fire

Toronto, Ontario (July 16, 1999) - Bell Canada announced that phone
service has been restored for the vast majority of customers affected
by a service disruption at a Bell facility in downtown Toronto.

"We are making every effort possible to restore service to affected
customers as quickly as possible," said David Southwell, Chief
Technology Officer at Bell Canada. "For the vast majority of
customers, service has been restored."

The disruption, which began at approximately 10:00 a.m., affected
local telephone service in an area bounded approximately by Bathurst,
Queen, Bay and College streets, and some wireless service. In
addition, there was disruption at a national level to certain data
services, such as debit card and credit card transactions, and
Internet services.

The situation developed following an explosion and fire at a downtown
Toronto central office early Friday morning. While the investigation
into the incident is continuing, Bell officials believe the explosion
originated when a short circuit occurred in an electrical panel that
was being serviced. A person was hospitalized as a result of the
incident.

The smoke and heat from the fire also caused the sprinkler system to
activate, temporarily impeding the ability to operate emergency backup
power. Most service was restored by 3:15 p.m.

"Municipal emergency crews were on the scene shortly after the
incident," Southwell said. "Bell personnel worked in conjunction with
emergency crews to bring the systems back online as quickly and safely
as possible to minimize the impact on our customers."

Bell Canada, the largest Canadian telecommunications operating
company, markets a full range of state-of-the-art products and
services to more than seven million business and residence customers
in Ontario and Quebec. Our e-mail address is forum@bell.ca.

For more information:

Don Hogarth
Media Relations
Bell Canada
416-581-3311

Ann Mahdy
Media Relations
Bell Canada
416-581-3311

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 01:08:07 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Canada Phone Lines Nearly Fixed After Fire


By Luke McCann 

TORONTO (Reuters) - Communications across Canada were almost back to 
normal late Friday afternoon after an early morning explosion and 
three-alarm fire at a Bell Canada phone service center in Toronto caused 
widespread disruption. 

The outage affected a large number of services, including telephone 
lines, cell phones, bank machines and Internet lines for most of the 
day. 

http://news.lycos.com/stories/Technology/19990718RTTECH-CANADA-OUTAGE.asp  

------------------------------

From: aboritz@CYBERNEX.NET (Alan Boritz)
Subject: Re: Nokia Incompatibility With Car Stereo
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 21:51:09 -0400


In article <telecom19.222.4@telecom-digest.org>, Celeste Tyree
<cmtyree@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I need to know if any one else out there has had the same problems
> that I have with a Nokia 6160 mobile phone.

> When I use (or even have the phone in my vehicle) the phone in my
> vehicle, I receive a loud hum from my car stereo.  I have found that
> it is worse when I'm playing a CD.  I don't have to worry about the
> volume of the ringer on my phone because I receive an alter from my
> car stereo.  It is so bad that I have to turn off the stereo before I
> answer the phone.  When I am not on the phone I find that the rear
> speaker will "crackle" intermittently.

The problem is not with your phone, but with your stereo.  It probably
wasn't designed to operate in a high RF environment.  The "crackle"
sound you're hearing is probably the normal polling and responses the
system does, resulting in your phone transmitting control signals (or
responses) to the cellular radio system.  It's a normal function but
few people get to "hear" it.

> I then noticed that when I was in another vehicle I did not have the
> problem. I continued to call AT&T Wireless seeking a solution to my
> noise problem because it can get so bad that it frightened my infant
> grandson when he was in the car ...

There's a simple solution to this problem.  Turn off the ignition any
time you need to use the phone.  You have no business holding a phone
in your hand while driving, especially with a child passenger.  That
will get you a moving violation in some places.  A car adapter will
also eliminate that problem, since it uses an external antenna far
enough from your stereo that it shouldn't interfere.  The full car kit
for the 6162 will only work with an external antenna (I use one, too),
so that should take care of it.

------------------------------

From: aboritz@CYBERNEX.NET (Alan Boritz)
Subject: Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers?
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 22:45:33 -0400


In article <telecom19.203.8@telecom-digest.org>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.chinet.com> wrote:

>> WASHINGTON -- Police can easily "eavesdrop" on pagers if a bill
>> approved by the US Senate becomes law.

>> The bill says law enforcement officials can monitor all messages sent
>> to targeted pagers without having to convince a judge that the
>> information can be found only in that way.

>> "Congress is trying to do an end run around the Constitution and gut
>> the privacy of millions of pager owners," said David Banisar, author
>> of The Electronic Privacy Papers.

> I'm not aware that there is an existing privacy right.

Then you obviously haven't read the Communications Act of 1934.  There
are specific prohibitions on disclosure of intercepted third-party
traffic, and they've been in place for a long time.

> We have the right to be secure in our person, papers, and
> possessions. But we have another right, a natural right to use the
> public way. That includes the airwaves.

No you don't.  Read the law and you can figure out what is and isn't
protected.

------------------------------

From: Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.chinet.com>
Subject: Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers?
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 12:24:43 -0500
Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server


> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.chinet.com> wrote:

>>> WASHINGTON -- Police can easily "eavesdrop" on pagers if a bill
>>> approved by the US Senate becomes law.

>>> The bill says law enforcement officials can monitor all messages sent
>>> to targeted pagers without having to convince a judge that the
>>> information can be found only in that way.

>>> "Congress is trying to do an end run around the Constitution and gut
>>> the privacy of millions of pager owners," said David Banisar, author
>>> of The Electronic Privacy Papers.

>> I'm not aware that there is an existing privacy right.

> Then you obviously haven't read the Communications Act of 1934.  There are
> specific prohibitions on disclosure of intercepted third-party traffic, and
> they've been in place for a long time.

If you are going to make an argument, make it. You don't explain what
you mean by third-party traffic, nor what it has to do with
intercepting communications that make use of the public airwaves.

>> We have the right to be secure in our person, papers, and
>> possessions. But we have another right, a natural right to use the
>> public way. That includes the airwaves.

>N o you don't.  Read the law and you can figure out what is and isn't
>p rotected.

The law doesn't protect our natural rights. It tends to take them away
from many and give privileges to the few. The law didn't create the
radio spectrum; it's a natural phenomenon that should be available for
the benefit of all, not for the exclusive use of a few.

------------------------------

From: Tom.Horsley@worldnet.att.net (Thomas A. Horsley)
Subject: Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California
Date: 18 Jul 1999 07:24:00 -0400
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services


My proposal for increasing acceptance of ten digit dialing:

Hey phone companies! Make your $#@! machines accept ten digit dialing
for all numbers even if its NOT a long distance call! That way, I
could get used to dialing ten digits before it suddenly became
mandatory, and, even more important, I could get my computer to always
dial ten digits and I wouldn't have to keep reprogramming it every
time you change something.

I really don't understand what people have against overlays. Do they
enjoy having to make sure everyone they ever gave their phone number
to gets their new number? Do they enjoy reprogramming their dialers
every time their friends in different area codes have their number
changed? Do they enjoy tossing any stationery or business cards that
have the wrong number on them and getting them reprinted? Do they
enjoy having to stop and figure out what area code they are in or the
number they are dialing is in because it changed (again)? Why is there
never any outrage over all these things? Why does the outrage always
come from having to dial four more digits?

The most ridiculous thing about the four digit outrage is that if you
keep splitting the area codes instead of doing overlays, pretty soon
your "next door neighbor" (the standard example in all the outrage
stories) is in a different area code anyway! I have the "good fortune"
to live in the 305, oops not 305 anymore, now its 407, oops not 407
anymore, now its 561, oops 561 is running out, we'll need a new area
code soon location.

Not only am I *tired* of having my frigging number changed out from
under me what seems like every few months, but the area codes are so
small already that only about one out of every ten numbers I ever need
to dial are in the same area code anyway (*and* I keep having to learn
new area codes for the other ten numbers :-).

Please! Make me dial ten digits! I'm beggin ya! Just don't change my
number or any of the other numbers I call yet again!


>>==>> The *Best* political site <URL:http://www.vote-smart.org/> >>==+
      email: Tom.Horsley@worldnet.att.net icbm: Delray Beach, FL      |
<URL:http://home.att.net/~Tom.Horsley> Free Software and Politics <<==+

------------------------------

From: stevenl11@aol.comstuffit (Steven Lichter)
Date: 18 Jul 1999 02:31:56 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California


These proposals would make it much more clear whether a number was
local or toll (as well as increasing the local calling area to a more
reasonable radius), and give consumers a tangible benefit in exchange
for the inconvenience of an overlay.

Why not just go back to step and SAT ACCESS.  

There is no need for overlays, what they are doing now could be fixed
by just adding a single digit to the phone number and or the area code
as most of the rest of the world is doing now. The PUC says that is
what is being planned by the NPA people in the future, just do it
now. They say that until all the offices are converted to electronic
this can't be done, well the people that are in non-electronic would
just have to deal with it until the switch is made, this would be done
much faster if the digit plans would be used and not stupid overlays
which no one likes. The baboons that thought up overlays have no idea
what is going on. I suspect that they don't even know how to use a
phone, or have someone else do it for them as they swing from tree to
tree!!!!


Apple Elite II 909-359-5338. Home of GBBS/LLUCE, support for the 
Apple II and Mac. 24 hours  2400/14.4.  OggNet Server.

------------------------------

From: richard1942@my-deja.com
Subject: Loud Cordless Phones
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:32:35 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


I presently have a General Electric cordless phone that has a very low
ringer.  There are no adjustments to it.  I am looking for a new
cordless phone that has a very loud ringer on it to use outside the
house when I'm in the pool.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.


Thank you.

------------------------------

From: D. Snow <dsnow@primalimageX.org>
Subject: Interface Standard Set(s) to Wireless Telephone
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 17:11:36 -0600
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises


Does anyone make an interface which will integrate a wireless
telephone with one or more standard telephone sets?

The unit would need to provide current, dialtone and ring to the sets
and control the wireless phone for number entry, send and end
functions.


Thanks.

------------------------------

From: David A. Burton <dave48@burtonsys.com.nospam>
Subject: Re: BellSouth MemoryCall Fails
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 07:30:05 -0500
Organization: Burton Systems Software


John Warne wrote:

> The following is based on the assumption BellSouth is using an Octal VM
> platform in your area, and relates information I gleaned from multiple
> discussions with BellSouth:

I think they are using a Nortel DMS-100.  I don't know what an "Octal
VM" is.  Is it just another brand and model of switch?

 
> There's a "switch" setting in the VM box that BS has obviously changed.

> The Octal box works in one of two ways. You have experienced both of
> the ways!

> We have the same situation. The solution proposed by BS was for us to
> have them install a "transfer mailbox" feature on each and every phone
> line/number that would be call forwarded to the phone with the
> MemoryCall mailbox.

> Oh, by the way, there is a monthly charge for the feature.

Yeah, one of the many different answers I've gotten was that it could
only have ever worked if there was a "transfer mailbox" on the line,
and I should call the business office and see if they would sell or
give me one.

That guy believed that I must have already had a transfer mailbox for
the six months that it worked correctly, but someone noticed the
mistake and removed it.  I asked how I could have had a transfer
mailbox, and he said that the number might have been entered
accidentally, by someone who typed the number while trying to enter
one of my ringmaster numbers.  Yeah, right.

However, I question whether the guy even knew what he was talking
about when he said that a transfer mailbox would work.  I doubt that
it would work.  A transfer mailbox is what they use to make MemoryCall
work when a call is made to a RingMaster number and is NOT forwarded
elsewhere.  What good would it do to have a transfer mailbox on a
phone number which is forwarded elsewhere?  Suppose I had a transfer
mailbox on that line and forwarded it to my friend's phone, who also
has MemoryCall service.  Am I to believe that callers would still get
MY memorycall, rather than hers?  I strongly suspect that a transfer
mailbox would only work when the calls were NOT forwarded.
 
> The "switch" or flag in the VM box is global. All customers on the box
> get it one way or the other, without individual customization/choice.

> Why do it one particular way? Could "revenue stream" influence the
> decision?

Perhaps.  The line that I'm forwarding is a business line, and the
number to which I'm forwarding is a residential line (though both go
to the same address).  BS charges more for MemoryCall on a business
line than on a residential line.  So, perhaps -- just perhaps -- it
might work if I did it the other way: got MemoryCall on the business
line and forwarded the residential line to it.  But that's not what
they've been telling me.

>> About three or four weeks ago, BellSouth made a change of some sort,
>> and now my MemoryCall service does not work properly for some incoming
>> calls.  It still works for calls directly dialed to my residential
>> phone number, and also when my BellSouth DCS phone is forwarded to my
>> residential phone number (either to the primary or to one of my
>> RingMaster distinctive ring numbers).  But when my business line is
>> forwarded to that same number, and I don't answer the call, MemoryCall
>> picks up with a generic "Welcome to BellSouth MemoryCall
>> service ... please enter a mailbox number" message, instead of my
>> personal greeting.

>> It used to work.  It worked fine for about six months.

------------------------------

From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon)
Subject: Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple
Date: 18 Jul 1999 13:10:35 -0400
Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp.
Reply-To: tls@rek.tjls.com


In article <telecom19.222.3@telecom-digest.org>, Monty Solomon
<monty@roscom.com> wrote:

> New Yorkers now have a new option for broadband Internet access to
> their home or office.

One they've had for _months_ from other non-monopoly providers.  Bell
Atlantic is the last one to arrive at the party on this one.  No doubt
they'll use their massive monopoly free marketing powers to establish
some market share nonetheless (see below).

> Bell Atlantic Corp. introduced their Infospeed digital subscriber line 
> services to parts of Manhattan Thursday. Other parts of the New York 
> metropolitan area are scheduled to receive the server later this year. 

For several months, they forced callers to their ISDN ordering/order 
status line to listen to a solicitation for Infospeed DSL before they
could be connected to a human being.  This despite the facts that:

	* The service did not exist yet.

	* ISDN service was, of course, an offering of their _regulated_
	  entity, but the Infospeed DSL product is sold by their
	  _unregulated_ internet subsidiary.  Cross-marketing like this
	  is a big no-no in the eyes of most state PSCs but clearly
	  they figured if it created enough confusion to keep them in
	  the game for the year or so that others offered DSL but they
	  didn't, it was worth a slap on the wrist.

Typical sleazy Bell behaviour.  I certainly wouldn't reward it by
ordering DSL from them when there are many excellent alternatives.


Thor Lancelot Simon	                            tls@rek.tjls.com
	"And where do all these highways go, now that we are free?"

------------------------------

From: Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.chinet.com>
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Organization: Chinet - Public Access since 1982
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:57:08 GMT


jonathan@syntel.com> wrote:

> Given the high number of Californians who block their ID, using ACR is
> pretty rude, and usually surprises people who encounter it.  But
> relatively few people who call me (as it happens) block their ID.

Once upon a time, wealthy people had footmen to send and receive
private messages and butlers who would announce, "Madame is not at
home," even though madame's snoring could be heard in the front
hall. If madame had too much to drink last night, she wouldn't receive
callers the next morning.

Caller ID is not a replacement for a butler, but it's the best that
those of us in the middle class can afford. Call screening devices
like Caller ID and telephone answering machines are wonderful
things. Someone makes an anonymous call? He's saying his time is more
valuable than mine. Wrong.

If someone makes an anonymous call to me and I don't want to be
interrupted, I let the answering machine take it. If he refuses to
leave a message, I don't give a damn.

I won't call anyone rude for subscribing to ACR. They aren't obligated
to accept calls and they get to decide how to manage incoming calls.

> The California Caller ID policy is really a tragic abuse of privacy. It
> seems to me that my right to know who is ringing a bell in my home,
> disturbing whatever reverie I happen to be enjoying, is more important
> that the accidental, historical right to make anonymous telephone calls.

So you feel the same way that I do. I don't understand why you call
subscribers to ACR rude.

If I were redesigning SS7, I'd always send ANI to the called party and
do the database lookup of the billed party's name against ANI. Caller
ID would be entirely user-programmable, an optional feature to allow
the caller to identify himself and his callback number to the called
party if he doesn't receive calls at the number he's dialing from.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 17:49:47 -0500
From: Greg Monti <gmonti@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: The Crisis at Pacifica Radio


On 17 Jul 1999, TELECOM Digest Editor <ptownson@telecom-digest.org>
wrote:

> The board of directors for Pacifica Foundation has been attempting
> to change the format of its radio stations for quite awhile now. Its
> station in Texas, KPFT changed from a very politically left-wing
> commentary type of programming to an mostly-music format several months
> ago. 
 ...

> The locked out employees have vowed to 'take back Pacifica for the
> people' ...

Thanks for your comment on this topic, Pat.  You are correct that this
is a battle between the owners of a medium and its employees, who
refuse to run that medium they way the owner wants it run.

One of the key tenets of broadcasting legislation and regulation in
the United States has always been "The licensee must be in control of
the broadcasting station."  Pacifica management is only firing
announcers and throwing them out in the street so that Pacifica can
follow Federal regulation and keep their license to own and run KPFA,
the very reason for Pacifica's existence.

If the fired programmers want to start their own radio station on 94.1
MHz in Berkeley, they can apply to the Federal Communications
Commission for a license for it by challenging Pacifica's license
renewal.  It won't be pleasant or cheap.

Federal regulations do not allow the inmates to be in charge of the
asylum.  Not for a week.  Not for a day.  Not for a minute.  Not for
one second.  The licensee, Pacifica, MUST be in control.


Greg Monti  Dallas, Texas, USA
gmonti@mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~gmonti


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: You are absolutely correct from a legal
point of view. There are some 'in the know' on the west coast who feel
there are serious problems with the way in which the corporation is
structured presently. They have concerns which are important about the
direction that things are going with the corporation, but the fact
remains that long as the corporation is a legal entity and as long as
its officers and board obey the law, they are entitled to do as they
please. Good or bad, business-like or unbusiness-like, left-wing
liberal, right-wing radical, whatever. The license to operate the
transmitter is theirs to use as they please. The law does not and
cannot dictate your political beliefs or your (lawful) choice of
business practices. 

But -- I feel Pacifica has treated the employees at its Berkeley
station very poorly. You do not just march everyone out the door
under armed guard and then change the locks on the doors. They
had staff people with them for years who I will assume in good
faith produced programs for them and did the 'drudge work' involved
in running a station like that who did so from the courage of their
own convictions, however far out I personally happen to think some
of their beliefs and convictions were. You would think that after 
all the years Pacifica has been transmitting its extremely liberal
positions on a variety of social issues that it might have practiced
what it preached regards employer/employee relationships. That is,
unless Pacifica never believed it all along anyway, and was only
going where they thought the market was leading them, and now they
see the market leading them a different direction. There is something
to be said about simple decency; about honoring the dignity of other
people, however difficult that may be under some set of circumstances.

Even a bunch of 'hippies' from Berkeley have dignity. I imagine
most of them working at the station honestly felt their work was
important and was making a difference in the world. All of us would
like to feel that way, otherwise what's the reason for being around
taking up space at all? Now all of us with no exceptions have treated
other people shabbily at one time or another, and all of us have been
treated shabbily. Its the nature of our existence. When something
which is precious to us is attacked we rise to its defense and try to
'save' it. I would do that in the case of TELECOM Digest and I am
sure the Berkeley people feel the same way about 'their' radio
station. Its their voice, its their way to make a difference in the
world, and they are losing it. 

You would *think* Pacifica in its wisdom and after years of listening
to its own radio programs about the evils of Corporate America would
have learned that and been sensitive to it. Unless of course it was
all nonsense from the beginning and Pacifica didn't ever believe any
of it to start with and that it was all strictly business from day one
with the corporation. You would *think* Pacifica would have assembled
its loyal staff and told them in essence, "here is where things are
at; this is the direction we have to go; we want every one of you to
be part of it; if, based entirely on your own conscience you find
yourself unwilling or unable to go where we are going, then we will be
sorry to lose you but will help you in a transition however we can."
They might have even gone so far as to take that little relay station
they operate -- the one across town that mostly acts like a trans-
lator since KPFA can't get across the hills very well -- and given it
to the departing employees: "Here is the license; its yours; from now
on never settle for just being employed by a radio station when you
can actually own one. Since you aided us in the programming transition
here and kept us going we will help you for a couple months getting
started over there with the programming you were doing on the air over
here. For a month or so on the air we will announce to listeners
seeking your programs where they should now tune to find them. Good
luck."

The flip side of the coin though, the other side of the story was
that indeed, Pacifica tried very hard to do everything they could
to placate the Berkeley people. My contact tells me that in fact
the corporation did tell the Berkeley people for the longest time
to clean up their act, to start working in the new direction the
corporation wanted to go, and to produce their programs in a manner
consistent with those new goals, but it was all in vain. Toward 
the end it got almost to the point of daily warfare between staff and
management, and that nothing said or done any longer would make a
difference except a complete housecleaning and a new start. One
spokesperson for the ousted employees said, "As of July 15, KPFA is no
longer a voice of the people ..."  and sadly, that seems to be true,
because even 'hippies' have free speech rights and some dignity, and
the right to try and improve the world as they feel it should be done.
Something went terribly wrong in the process.   PAT]

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #228
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Mon Jul 19 04:38:37 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA27203;
	Mon, 19 Jul 1999 04:38:37 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 04:38:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907190838.EAA27203@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #229

TELECOM Digest     Mon, 19 Jul 99 04:38:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 229

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: www. Prefixes (Derek Balling)
    Re: So You Thought There Was Enough Fraud Already? (Linc Madison)
    Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems (Garrett Wollman)
    Re: Split For 760 Area Code in California (John David Galt)
    Re: Telecom Term Paper (Donald E. Kimberlin)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (J.F. Mezei)
    Re: The Real Reason For New Area Codes (John R. Levine)
    Laser Cutting System For Sale (pgeorge7@my-deja.com)
    Last Laugh? Some Didn't Think it Was Very Funny! (Billy Harvey)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:06:22 -0700
From: Derek Balling <dredd@megacity.org>
Subject: Re: www. Prefixes


> You would name a router with the root name?  That really seems silly.

It is, but I used it as an example.

> Who outside of your tech staff even needs to know the name of your
> router?  A name like sl-gw9-chi-5-2-1544k.sprintlink.net is fine for
> a router, and the ROOT machine is the only one I suggest MUST have
> HTTP.

But you have no idea what that root machine will be. It COULD be a
router, it could be a firewall. Any security expert will tell you not
to run ANY services on your firewall.

>> Right. Instead of pushing for abolition of www. which will never happen,
>> why not write up an RFC to add a new DNS record "WWW", which would say "if
>> someone wants the web server for <domain>, they really want:
>> www.domain.com, or sales.domain.com or whatever. You could even do some
>> slick stuff like:

> Ok -- now we would (theoretically) have an MX style record for every
> domain.  Which wouldn't be too bad -- but it would require the redesign
> of every browser in existance.  That has little chance of happening.

Actually, the RFC was brought to my attention as already existing, and
its a perfect example for this discussion. RFC2052 defines the "SRV"
resource record in DNS, which allows you to define service->machine
mappings, such as (using the example from RFC2052).

  ; HTTP - server is the main server, new-fast-box is the backup
  ; (On new-fast-box, the HTTP daemon runs on port 8000)

http.tcp 	SRV 0 0 80 server.asdf.com.
		SRV 10 0 8000 new-fast-box.asdf.com.

; since we want to support both http://asdf.com/ and
; http://www.asdf.com/ we need the next two RRs as well

http.tcp.www 	SRV 0 0 80 server.asdf.com.
		SRV 10 0 8000 new-fast-box.asdf.com.

It also allows for ANY OTHER SERVICE (allowing forward compatibility),
such as:

telnet.tcp
gopher.tcp

etc.

Currently, no browsers support this (and the RFC acknowledges that the
currently necessary "A" record mentality will persist for years to
come), but all it requires is some pounding of drums and about ten
lines of coding in browsers to add this functionality.  In fact, it is
my intention to suggest it to the Mozilla team so that Netscape 5.0
might very well support it (who knows).

But all in all, this IS the answer to which you seek, all that needs to 
have happen is for (a) implementation at the browser level, and (b) DNS 
admins to implement it.

I can answer for (B) ... if I had known about it, it'd've been in my
config a long time ago. I'll be adding it to my zonefiles in the next
couple days.  Ask your DNS administrator to do the same. The more
people who realize such a feature exists and is unimplemented, the
better chance it has of being used.

> Just get your router / firewall to route based on port.  80 goes to
> the old web machine, 443 to your secure server, 70 to that gopher that
> hasn't come out of its hole in several years, 21 to the ftp box, 23 to
> the telnet, etc.  By the time http goes away the rest of technology
> will catch up with the needs of the users.  (We may even have IPv6
> if we are lucky - lotsa numbers!)

Ack! you've obviously never purchased memory from Cisco before. :)
Fill your router's memory with a large BGP table and tell me how much
more room you have left to route a whole bunch of separate port
routings for the web farm (of hundreds of IP's) that you may have
behind the router.

After you pay off the national debt paying for your router memory, let
me know what the damage was. ;-)

> I still remember when my ISP was small enough that all the services
> ran easily off of the same machine and all those FQDN prefixes were
> not needed at all.  Now they have pop. mail. smtp. news. www. members.
> ftp. telnet. - a bit confusing and a lot more to remember and type.

C'est la vie. The core of the problem is that people want the "small
intimate internet" they remember. Pandora cracked the lid on that box
a long time ago and it won't be coming back any time soon.

> The root machine can support more than one service.  So what will the
> 'next' protocol be?  We had a couple of years warning on HTTP.

Who knows what the next protocol will be ... the point is that we have
to be FORWARD thinking and not just worried about the laziness of
wanting to save four keystrokes on URL's. Wanting to save two
keystrokes on dates is getting us into a whole lot of trouble here in
a few months. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
 
> Mail has intelligent software with MX records.  You can email me
> @TK.COM with little thought to my mail server's real name.  (And the
> way it is set up, you could email to bellaire@whatever.tk.com and
> still get connected.  The magic of domain mail.

Agreed. Which is why I like the neat RFC I mentioned above. It
addresses both issues - forward compatibility (which makes the current
"www."  necessary), as well as the "simplicity" approach you and Pat
favor. As soon as browser vendors implement RFC2052, that problem goes
away.

> You can also visit http://BELLAIRE@TK.COM/ and get to my site, because
> I had the foresight to demand that the root of the domain went to the
> server.  (http://editor@telecom-digest.org/ also works.)

Actually, I think those would break on Mozilla (because the "user@
domain" syntax in a URL is technically "broken" from a standards-
compliance perspective), since part of the benefits of Mozilla was
that it was going to enforce standards ... I don't know if that's the
case or not though.

>> I have to quote my High School Journalism teacher:
>> "The easiest way is very seldom the best way. Learn this and you will
>> do great in life."
>> 	- M.Habernig

> But "the easy way" reflects the new breed of (how can I say this
> nicely?) technically incompetent users.

Then that "new breed" must also come to grips with the fact that there
is a learning curve they must adhere to. Before cars first became
popular, only a few people learned to drive, and they learned in
intricate detail how to do it safely (or they tried anyway). When cars
became popular, to use your thinking, all the rules of the road would
have been simplified, to make way for the "lowest common denominator".
Instead, the government realized that they needed to adhere to
standards, and the drivers were required to learn a little about how
to drive safely, and pass a test before they could actually go out on
the road.

Now I'm not advocating "licensing new internet users" (although at
times I am tempted), but its an example of how a learning curve is
something that people can (and do) grow to accept.

> The end goal of communication is getting the message across.  If that
> means pulling a few technical tricks like root naming the web server
> I don't mind.

But you do that (RFC2052 excepted) at the expense of a root address
which you may find VERY valuable down the road.

> Final note: Please note that mail to @whatever.tk.com may fail on
> systems that try to find the MX for each machine instead of routing
> the domain mail to the domain's MS server.

Actually, you ARE aware that the "order of operations" should be (for
the example above):

First Choice: the MX record for whatever.tk.com (if it exists)
Second Choice: the MX record for tk.com (if it exists)
Third Choice: direct delivery to whatever.tk.com
Fourth Choice: bounce mail to sender as undeliverable

So the MTA (Mail Transfer Agent) SHOULD try to find the MX record for
each machine, but it should then also step up "level by level" until
it gets to the root-domain. If it still hasn't found an MX record,
then it has to assume that you want direct delivery and go nuts
trying.

But I think we're just about surpassing the "relevant to telecom"
ratio on this thread so maybe we should kill it now ... we know the
solution (RFC2052) and all it takes is for vendors to implement it. :)


D

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 02:00:22 GMT
From: LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com (Linc Madison)
Subject: Re: So You Thought There Was Enough Fraud Already?
Organization: LincMad Consulting


In article <telecom19.214.1@telecom-digest.org>, TELECOM Digest Editor
<ptownson@telecom-digest.org> wrote:

> Check out this report I found the other day while surfing the World
> Wide Shopping Mall -- err -- Web.

> Just imagine! Someone visits a sex site in the Netherlands, and pays
> for it charging the call to your phone bill through a company in
> Hong Kong.  

> They say this will eliminate 'security concerns about sending your
> credit card over the internet' ... I wonder if new concerns may arise
> as a result.

This company had a booth at the Web 99 Expo this month in San Francisco.
I didn't wander by, though, since I think this is an idea that should be
shut down before it gets off the ground.

I'm a purist -- I don't believe that any "information content" costs
or anything other than the pure cost of carrying the call should ever
be billed to my telephone account.  That means no 900 or 976 numbers,
no billing travel clubs or merchandise or web site memberships or
anything else, to my telephone number.


** Do not send me unsolicited commercial e-mail spam of any kind **
Linc Madison  *  San Francisco, California  *   Telecom@LincMad-com
URL:< http://www.lincmad.com > * North American Area Codes & Splits
>> NOTE: replies sent to <Telecom@LincMad-com> will be read sooner!

------------------------------

From: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman)
Subject: Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems
Date: 19 Jul 1999 02:01:06 GMT
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science


In article <telecom19.227.10@telecom-digest.org>, Derek Balling
<dredd@megacity.org> wrote:

> Any ISP who actually subjected my packets to a transparent proxy like
> that would pretty quickly find themselves minus one customer, IF I
> didn't decide to sue them under the ECPA (Electronic Communications
> Privacy Act).

At which point the court will remind you that you signed (or verbally
agreed to) a contract with them stating that they could, in fact, do
whatever they want with your packets -- if indeed it didn't say that
that packets weren't even yours anyway.

Take a look at some of those service agreements.  A number of them are
quite scary, and most people don't have the financial backing to tie
a Fortune 50 company up in court for the decade it would take to
resolve the legality thereof.  (Sure makes me glad I run my own dialup
infrastructure and don't have to contract with a third-party ISP to
get remote access like people at some other major US universities do.)


Garrett A. Wollman   | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same
wollman@lcs.mit.edu  | O Siem / The fires of freedom 
Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame
MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA|                     - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick

------------------------------

From: John_David_Galt@acm.org (John David Galt)
Organization: Diogenes the Cynic Hot-Tubbing Society
Subject: Re: Split For 760 Area Code in California
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 02:57:15 GMT


Joel B Levin wrote:

> In <telecom19.226.9@telecom-digest.org>, LincMad001@telecom-digest.
> zzn.com (Linc Madison) wrote:

>> The goal of area code relief planning is to minimize disruptions to
>> customers.  Making a significant chunk of people change twice so that
>> a smaller number of people don't have to change, doesn't make sense.

> In my (minority) view, the real answer to this is to go to overlays
> and make people bite the bullet of dialing 10 or 11 digits.  They will
> only have to take that hit ONCE; ...

Overlays make sense if the area is small and there is no logical place
to split it further (for example, 213/323 should have been an overlay).
But the 760 area is over 400 miles long, and includes major parts of
three LATAs!  Making a mostly-rural area that big give up 7-digit
dialing just because one tiny corner of it is crowded is ridiculous.

I say, split off the San Diego suburbs where all the growth is
occurring, and let them be the ones to change for once.  Then if 760 or
other mostly-rural codes need to be split again, split them at the LATA
boundaries.

Even when the national number length needs to be increased (2007?),
there is no need for rural places to start dialing huge number-lengths
just because of growth in cities.  Instead, let's have a variable length
number system as they have in Britain.  Give metro Los Angeles a two
digit area + 10 digit numbers (the ones they have now) and it will have
all kinds of room for new growth without splitting; but other areas can
go 3+9, 4+8, or 5+7 and keep their shorter numbers.


John David Galt

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:32:28 -0400
From: Donald E. Kimberlin <dkimberlin@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Telecom Term Paper


Brad Davey <bwdavey@yahoo.com> writes:

> My name is Brad, and I am a grad student at SMU in telecomm-
> unications. I am working on a term paper now, and I need some help.
> My topic is the leasing of Local Exchange Carriers lines -- how it
> works, will competition work, etc. Are there any books or articles
> you can think of to help me?

SET TONGUE-IN-CHEEK.SYS /ON

Brad, the book you need to get is the book listing the USOCs -
Universal Service Order Codes -- that LECs use to write their service
orders.  If you can get a copy, and once having one, if you can
understand it, you should be granted advancement to doctoral student
status, because you will be unraveling some of the greatest mysteries
of the telecommunications industry! (Hint: Among the things you will
discover is that USOCs are in no sense of the word "universal" at
all.)

------------------------------

From: J.F. Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:54:38 -0400


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: 

> Regards the guy who got his groceries without an approval code, it
> depends in large part who was at fault.

A store/chain has a very specific contract with the credit card
company/bank which clearly defines the responsabilities of each. If
the store does not follow procedures and the charge is disputed or
card is bad, then the store won't get its money for that transaction.

The advent of POS terminals has permitted some banks to set a $0 floor
limit for a merchant (eg: all transactions require authorisation) in
exchange for lower fees per transaction. (since fraud levels will
drop, banks can give a break to the merchant).

The agreement between bank and merchant will specify what happens if
the POS is down.

Not following this does not mean that transactions are void, but it
does mean that if a stolen card is used at that time and the merchant
did not follow the steps, the merchant will not get his money.

Remember that when the POS is down, stores may have to call for
authorisation or at the very least check that the card does not figure
in the printed booklet containing stolen card numbers. If the card was
printed in that booklet and the merchant accepted the transaction, it
will not get its money.

> to fraud as say an electronics store would be. If his sale was within
> the floor limit *and* the store otherwise met the rules by making him
> present an actual card, etc then the credit card issuer will approve
> the sale once the link to them becomes operational.

Not necessarily, if the transaction is done manually (imprinted on the
traditional paper), the transaction will only become known to the bank
when the paper is presented to the bank for deposit.

Getting an authorization simply gives the merchant a guarantee from
the bank that he will get his money from the bank when he presents a
sale slip for that amount for that card.

> approval will be 'forced'. They have to do this as a matter of merchant
> goodwill; no merchant will wait on hold five or ten minutes to get an
> approval for twenty dollars.

Yes. Some merchants (notably mail order outfits) are forced to get
authorizations for every transaction and may in fact be forced by the
bank to provide more than just the card number to validate the
transaction. It depends on the relationship between the merchant and
the bank. Remember that small merchants may not be able to justify the
cost of a POS or even an imprinter and will write the sales slips
manually.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the bank may have its own
internal floor limits set in place for periods of great rush (when
everyone goes out to buy flowers in the morning of mothers day for
instance). In such cases, the bank will do very minimal authorizations
for transactions below a secret amount set internally by the bank for
that day. (for instance, by not checking your balance and only
checking if card reported stolen, banks can increase the number of
transactions per second significantly and thus handle additional
loads).

However, in periods of great rush, the risk is taken by the bank and
not the merchant. As long as the merchant gets an authorisation
number, he is covered and will get his money.


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: In the case of mail order places, if
the system is down it is not quite such a concern since the order
will just sit there a few minutes until the system comes back up.
The problem is the customer at the cash register waiting in line
and holding up all the customers behind him. Of course it helps if
you are a very large national chain such as Walmart or Radio Shack.
Where the merchant is considered a very valuable account, VISA/MC
tends to be more lenient in their policies also. So much depends
upon the merchant's 'track record'. An Area Sales Manager for Tandy
(the guy who oversees 30-50 Radio Shack stores in his territory)
mentioned to me that, 'we tell VISA how we intend to do things, not
them telling us ...' 

Of course some merchants have a horrible track-record for fraud as
well. Amoco had this one dealer in Chicago on Congress Parkway on
the south edge of downtown, where it turns into the expressway.
He was on both sides of the expressway so he could get traffic in
each direction. His fraud rate was so high that the credit card
office put in a red phone in the cashier's cage which was a *tie-line*
to the sales authorizers, who at that time (early 1970's) were just
a few blocks away. If he sold a package of chewing gum to someone
on an Amoco card, the cashier had to lift that receiver and get an
authorization code. On the credit card office end, the tie-line just
went into the automatic call distributor like the 800 lines and the
local Chicago area lines and got splashed out to whichever author-
izer was idle. 

The guy was a total crook himself, so what did he care if a few
customers with abused or misused cards filled up with gas at his
place every day. His wife or his girlfriend, I do not not know which,
worked at the credit card office however the company did not realize
the relationship between the two people. She filled him in on a 
couple of secrets about the process which he used to his advantage.

One, the office in those days was receiving a post office semi-
trailer truck full of merchant charge tickets each day, and as they
were put in 'batches' or 'trays' for the intial balancing in order
that checks could be written and sent to the merchant the same day,
if the batch or tray of approximatly a thousand charge tickets was
out of balance, if the out of balance was five dollars or less, the
clerks were authorized to write it off and not waste time looking for
it. More than that, they had to go back and look for the error with
their manual adding machine tapes, matching the dealer's header cards
against the tickets, etc. If any given dealer was out of balance by
three or four dollars they likewise would write it off, i.e. the
dealer's charge tickets enclosed totalled $27 and the dealer's 
summary card requested $30. This guy found out they did that and
started sending in his charge tickets every day a dollar or two
dollars short. They finally caught him doing it and started sending
him chargebacks for every nickle, and the area sales manager went
over to his station and told him to 'start being more careful about
checking the totals on your summary cards each day'.

Two, his girlfriend told him about the way inbound charge tickets
were handled: the clerks would open the packets make sure the
dealer's summary was in front, stack them in metal trays in bunches
of a thousand or so at a time, and off they would go for microfilming
as the first order of business. Over the next several days of the
ticket getting handled, machine punched and sorted, and whatever,
if it got mutilated or NMU'ed (NMU = 'non-machine useable') then
the shreds of it or whatever was left were stored in a certain 
place at the end of the processing line. An 80-column card called
'substitute for invoice' was inserted in the original's place in
the processing line, with a '7' punched in column 32 which caused
it to fall out once it reached the end of processing at which point
the shreds of the original would be inserted with the customer's
statement and a rubber stamp imprint saying 'sorry this was damaged
in processing'. If the original was totally gone or somehow showed
up missing, then they'd use the microfilm copy to balance the
batch and the customer would get the microfilm saying 'sorry we
can't find the original ticket, please pay from this microfilm copy
of your charge ticket. 

So at the very beginning of the process those tickets had to be
microfilmed before they were 'turned loose for processing in the
house' and lost among millions of others. But what they were not
doing was insuring that the merchant indicia was legible before the
tickets were turned loose in processing. When this clown on
Congress Parkway found that out, he began stuffing a few handwritten
charge tickets of his own in his summary each day; handwritten
account number on top, no dealer indicia at all, always some small
amount he knew the office would write off when the ticket fell out
in processing, went to manual lookup and adjustments, etc. Then
one day the adjustments clerks found in their work a charge ticket
for about $200.00 for some sort of TBA (tires, batteries and
accessories) which in the account number area only had the handwritten
phrase 'B&O Railroad, Acct #3', no customer signature and no dealer
indicia. They made one clerk sit at a microfilm viewer for about
eight hours looking through thousands of dealer summary cards with
explicit orders: find out who it is ... they never could figure it
out and had to write it off so a new rule was passed: the first
thing that happens, when new charge tickets come in is the clerk
will use the dealer summary card -- always clearly printed and
quite legible because he wanted his money after all -- and thumb
rapidly through all the charge tickets he enclosed. If any of them
had dealer indicia that was not completely legible take a pen and
handwrite the dealer's ID number on the ticket somewhere. Never mind
if the customer account is legible or imprinted or handwritten or
right or wrong, just make sure we have someplace to charge it
back to if it falls out of billing. *Then* send it to microfilm,
*then* balance the batch to pay the dealers, *then* turn it loose
in house for billing. Not before. They finally caught the same
guy submitting charge tickets which were 'questionable' and in
each case his own dealer imprint was barely readable if at all,
and they told him to cut that out.

When they finally bounced him as a dealer however was after they
caught his floozy girlfriend running her own scheme in the office
and found out the two of them were friends. She worked in the area
called 'inbound' and she would thumb through all those tickets
rapidly alright, but not to make sure the dealer indicia was
legible, but rather to look for *her personal charge tickets* for
the gas she bought for her own car. When she found one of her
tickets she would tear it up -- before it got microfilmed of course --
and then either short the dealer or pay the dealer but short the
tray batch or sometimes put in a 'substitute for NMU invoice' with
a bogus number of some sort and let adjustments have to write it
off. Or she would pick a real account number and customer service
would have to write it off two months from now down the line or
maybe the collectors would have to write it off. She had quite a
scheme but she didn't know the supervisor saw her stick a charge
ticket in her purse one day and walk away toward the ladies room
where the ticket would otherwise get flushed away. They intercepted
her in the hallway before she went in the ladies room and asked
her point blank, 'would it be okay if we look in your purse?'

Like all such cases they had her sit in a private office for a 
few minutes until someone from human resources came in with her
supervisor.  They escorted her down to the lobby, out to the street,
handed her a *manually written* check -- so anxious were they to
get her out of there -- with her final pay through the end of the
current day, her vacation pay, a couple day's severence pay added
in and told her 'there is no reason for this to go any further;
stay away, do not ever come in the building again for any reason;
we will tell your former co-workers that you were transferred to
a different department; please do not force things to become 
nasty. Do not ever tell anyone what you did and how you did it,
and we won't need to carry this any further. Now please leave.'

I do not know how, but a week or so later they found out she had
gotten a job working for the dealer on Congress Parkway -- as his
midnight shift cashier yet! -- and they were so annoyed at that
point the company went in and tossed the guy out; took over the
station and ran it themselves for a couple months until they could
get a different dealer.    PAT]

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jul 1999 00:29:09 -0400
From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine)
Subject: Re: the real reason for new area codes
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA


> If it is due to the proliferation of cellular phones and other
> portables that new area codes are constantly being thrust upon us, ...

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Your suggestion is a good one which
> has been raised time and again over the past several years ...

If it were really cellular and pagers that were sucking up phone
numbers, service specific overlays would be a swell idea.  But it's
not, so they're a lousy idea.

The real problem is CLECs, competitive local phone companies.  Because
of the way that phone calls are routed and billed, every CLEC needs at
least one prefix with 10,000 numbers in every rate center (billing
point) in which it expects someday to offer service.  Since a city
like Boston has about eight rate centers and there's probably two
dozen CLECs, the number of prefixes used is huge.  Since few CLECs
have many customers, these prefixes tend to be mostly or entirely
empty.

There are several real solutions.  One is to consolidate rate centers.
It's absurd for Boston, which is not that large a city, to have more
than a single rate center.  It has many for historical reasons (each
was originally a manual operator office) and Bell doesn't want to
consolidate since that would turn some message unit calls into free
calls, which might lose them a small amount of revenue.  Denver did
consolidate, quite effectively, and US West didn't resist much since
all calls within the Denver area were already free.

Another solution is to upgrade the switch software so numbers can be
handed out in blocks of 1000 rather than of 10,000, and up to 10 CLECs
can share a single prefix.  This is happening slowly, and the FCC
needs to prod the telcos hard to make it happen faster.

The last solution is number portability.  Once numbers are portable,
it becomes much less important for CLECs to have a prefix in every
rate center, so long as they have one in a rate center nearby.  (These
days, the physical location of a switch need have nothing to do with
the rate center, and it's common for a telco to have one switch with
prefixes in a bunch of different rate centers.)

Portability also makes service specific overlays a bad idea, since you'll
be able to switch between landline and cellular and keep the same phone
number.


John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869
johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, 
Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail

------------------------------

From: pgeorge7@my-deja.com
Subject: Laser Cutting System For Sale
Date: Sunday, 18 Jul 1999 23:58:02 -0600
Organization: Laser
Reply-To: pgeorge7@my-deja.com


CNC Laser Cutting System For Sale:

4' x 4' cutting area w/ 100 watt Sealed Synrad CO2 Laser.

$39,500

Laser 1, Ltd.
(414) 383-2000
Ask For George

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 21:40:14 EST
From: Billy Harvey <Billy.Harvey@thrillseeker.net>
Subject: Last Laugh? Some People Don't Think it Was Funny 


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: If it was not 'their plan' to
> distribute the virus in this sneaky way, then *who's plan* was it? I
> am not entirely convinced it was not 'their plan' originally, and then
> when some people in the media found out about it, all of a sudden Dead
> Cow started making disclaimers and acting like the injured party in
> the whole thing. All of a sudden they discover that their Back Orifice
> has been tampered with when it fact it was their real plan to give
> everyone else a pain up their back orifices until they got caught
> trying to sneak up on a few people. 

> If it indeed was not 'their plan' to do this, then I think everyone
> would be interested to find out what sort of warped mind; what sort of
> sick person would have thought up the scheme to not only infect as
> many computers as possible with the virus but besmirch the reputation
> of Dead Cow as well at the same time.  PAT]

Pat,

I hope you realize that a small group of computer gurus who could
write a multi-platform software package that allowed remote
administration of an operating system that has required literally
thousands of programmers thousands of hours to develop, would have the
brains to write their own virus if they wanted one instead of having
to borrow an easily detectable one.


Regards,

Billy


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Maybe so, but in that case, who did
put the virus on the CD Rom? I think it had to be an inside job;
who else had access to the product? And if they know, or find out,
I wonder if they will tell the public or try to keep it secret,
the way telco/credit card back offices do with they discover an
employee who has a 'problem' or caused an 'incident'. Some reporter
on television a couple days ago was saying the computer used to
copy the CD Roms had the virus on it by accident; that no one was
aware of it until the virus had been copied on to all the CDs ...

It seems odd that your 'small group of computer gurus with brains'
would not have seen that, or at the very least completely inspected
the computer they were using prior to turning out all the work
doesn't it?  As I noted in the subject line above, some people may
think it was funny; obviously Dead Cow members do not. How are 
they taking it, by the way? Any of them had any more to say to
the media or the net?   PAT]

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #229
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Mon Jul 19 15:00:38 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA20471;
	Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:00:38 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:00:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907191900.PAA20471@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #230

TELECOM Digest     Mon, 19 Jul 99 15:00:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 230

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Telecom Update (Canada) #191, July 19, 1999 (Angus TeleManagement)
    Re: A Week We Won't Forget (John J. Brassil)
    Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers? (Andrew Emmerson)
    Re: DSL vrs. Cable Modems (Isaac Wingfield)
    Re: DSL vrs. Cable Modems (Msgt. Paul Berens)
    Re: DSL vrs. Cable Modems (Derek Balling)
    Re: Answering Machines / Call Screening (Hugh Pritchard)
    Data vs. Voice Switch (Marcy Dixon)
    You've Got Mail. You're Being Watched (Monty Solomon)
    Bright Light to Offer Free Spam Protection (Monty Solomon)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:38:22 -0400
From: Angus TeleManagement <angus@angustel.ca>
Subject: Telecom Update (Canada) #191, July 19, 1999


*                                                          *
*                      TELECOM UPDATE                      *
*    Angus TeleManagement's Weekly Telecom Newsbulletin    *
*                  http://www.angustel.ca                  *
*                Number 191:  July 19, 1999                *
*                                                          *
*    Publication of Telecom Update is made possible by     *
*             generous financial support from:             *
*                                                          *
*  AT&T Canada ............... http://www.attcanada.com/   *
*  Bell Canada ............... http://www.bell.ca/         *
*  Lucent Technologies ....... http://www.lucent.ca/       *
*  MetroNet Communications ... http://www.metronet.ca/     *
*  Sprint Canada ............. http://www.sprintcanada.ca/ *
*  Telus Communications....... http://www.telus.com/       *
*  TigerTel Services ......... http://www.citydial.com/    *
*                                                          *

IN THIS ISSUE: 

** Bell Fire Cuts Toronto Phones, Disrupts Data Networks
** Stentor Canadian Network Management to Dissolve
** Microsoft Invests $600 Million in Rogers
** AT&T Activates Toronto-Vancouver Fiber
** Optel to Wholesale High-Speed Internet to ISPs 
** Cablecos Must Tariff High-Speed Internet Access for ISPs 
** Telemetrix to Build Fido Network in Manitoba, Saskatchewan
** Sprint Launches "It's Easy Unlimited In-Province"
** Number Portability Extended in BC, Ontario
** Nortel Spins Off Maker of Anti-Piracy Software
** Wireless Carriers Report Increased Activations
** Mitel Expands Channels for Voice/Data Products
** Bell Nexxia Launches VPN Service
** CRTC Changes Rules for Basic Cable Rates
** Court Backs ISP's Cancellation of Spam Account
** Minacs, Phonettix Merger Approved
** U.S. Takeover Battle Ends in Compromise
** Bell Wins Round in Domain-Name Dispute
** Clearnet Adds Internet-Ready Phones to Mike
** Angus on the Witness Stand


BELL FIRE CUTS TORONTO PHONES, DISRUPTS DATA NETWORKS: On July 16, an
electrical explosion and fire in a Bell Canada central office in
downtown Toronto knocked out about 113,000 lines for several
hours. Several national data networks also went down, including some
serving bank machines and credit card users. The affected CO was back
in service the same day, but disruption of some data networks lasted
into the weekend.

** Two days later, in an unrelated incident, several hundred 
   thousand residents of the Peel region, west of Toronto, 
   lost 9-1-1 service for about 12 hours. Some callers 
   attempting to reach 9-1-1 during this period found their 
   phone service frozen for a time following their call.
 
STENTOR CANADIAN NETWORK MANAGEMENT TO DISSOLVE: Stentor Canadian
Network Management (SCNM), which manages the cross- Canada network of
Canada's regional telcos, will close down by year end. Bell will
provide "national operational support services" to Telus and other
former SCNM members.

MICROSOFT INVESTS $600 MILLION IN ROGERS: Microsoft Corp. is investing
$600 Million in shares of Rogers Communications that potentially
represent 9% of Rogers' equity. Rogers says it will use Microsoft
software for interactive TV services, beginning next year.

AT&T ACTIVATES TORONTO-VANCOUVER FIBER: AT&T Canada has activated a
4,475-km fiber optic route from Toronto through Winnipeg, Regina, and
Calgary to Vancouver.

OPTEL TO WHOLESALE HIGH-SPEED INTERNET TO ISPs: Optel Communications
says that it will offer DSL high-speed services to Internet Service
Providers in Greater Toronto, starting September; and in Montreal,
starting November.

CABLECOS MUST TARIFF HIGH-SPEED INTERNET ACCESS FOR ISPs: CRTC Telecom
Decision 99-8 tells cablecos to file proposed tariffs for wholesale
high-speed Internet service.

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/internet/1999/8045/02/d99-08.htm

TELEMETRIX TO BUILD FIDO NETWORK IN MANITOBA, SASKATCHEWAN: Telemetrix
Inc. has signed a letter of intent to build a PCS network in Manitoba
and Saskatchewan to Microcell Connexions' specifications and operate
it as part of Microcell's cross- country wireless network.

SPRINT LAUNCHES "IT'S EASY UNLIMITED IN-PROVINCE": A new Sprint Canada
residential calling plan, called It's Easy Unlimited In-Province,
offers calls anytime within the customer's province for 10
cents/minute with a $20/month maximum.

NUMBER PORTABILITY EXTENDED IN BC, ONTARIO: Local Number Portability
will be activated in Victoria, BC, on August 23 and in Thornhill and
Unionville, Ontario, on or about July 23 and August 11 respectively.

NORTEL SPINS OFF MAKER OF ANTI-PIRACY SOFTWARE: Nortel Networks has
spun off Nepean, Ont.-based Channelware Inc.  as a separate company
with 44% Nortel ownership. Channelware makes software that enables
computer games to be distributed on line on a pay-per-use basis.

WIRELESS CARRIERS REPORT INCREASED ACTIVATIONS: Three wireless
carriers report the following increases in subscribers during the
second quarter:

** Clearnet PCS and Mike: 61,573 (last year 52,410; June 30 
   total: 408,503).

** Microcell Fido: 60,234 (last year: 52,679; June 30 total: 
   404,577).

** Rogers Cantel: 109,500 (last year: 24,900; June 30 total: 
   2,180,200).

MITEL EXPANDS CHANNELS FOR VOICE/DATA PRODUCTS: Mitel has established
a new category of dealers, "Platinum Elite Value Added Resellers," to
market voice/data products such as SX- 2000 for Windows NT.

BELL NEXXIA LAUNCHES VPN SERVICE: Bell Nexxia has introduced Nexxia.IP
VPN, which utilizes Nexxia's IP network and the Internet to provide a
global virtual private network service.  Nexxia.IP VPN is accessible
by wireless via Bell Mobility.

CRTC CHANGES RULES FOR BASIC CABLE RATES: CRTC Broadcasting Public
Notice 99-108 adopts new rules requiring cable companies to get
Commission approval before increasing basic monthly fees because of
the addition of a specialty service.
 
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/bcasting/notice/1999/p99108_0.txt

COURT BACKS ISP'S CANCELLATION OF SPAM ACCOUNT: An Ontario Superior
Court judge has sustained the action of Nexx Online in canceling the
account of a large-scale spam broadcaster.  The court ruled that spam
is in "breach of the emerging principles of Netiquette."

MINACS, PHONETTIX MERGER APPROVED: Phonettix Intelecom shareholders
have approved their company's merger with Minacs Group, forming
Canada's largest call center outsourcer. The combined company has
taken the name Minacs Worldwide. (See Telecom Update #184)

GLOBENET COMPLETES FINANCING FOR CROSS-ATLANTIC FIBER: Bermuda-based
GlobeNet Communications has assembled the US$940 Million in financing
needed to build a fiber-optic link between North and South America via
Bermuda. GlobeNet was founded two years ago by Canadian
telecommunications entrepreneur Mike Kedar, founder of Call-Net.

U.S. TAKEOVER BATTLE ENDS IN COMPROMISE: A month-long bidding war
between Qwest Communications and Global Crossing has ended in
compromise: Qwest will acquire Denver-based regional telco US West for
US$35 Billion, and Global Crossing will buy Frontier Corp, a long
distance company, for US$11 Billion.  (See Telecom Update #184, 188)

BELL WINS ROUND IN DOMAIN-NAME DISPUTE: The Federal Court has told
Globe Tete Communications to close down its Web site pending a ruling
on whether its domain name, www.lespagesjaunes.com ("the yellow
pages"), violates a Bell ActiMedia trademark.
 
CLEARNET ADDS INTERNET-READY PHONES TO MIKE: Clearnet Communications
has added two additional handsets to its Mike service. Mike i1000plus
($229) and Mike i500plus ($79) provide an Internet browser plus
e-mail, fax, and remote dial-up.

ANGUS ON THE WITNESS STAND: In the July-August issue of
Telemanagement, Ian Angus tells how his testimony on the "telephonic"
character of the Internet figured in a court battle on whether the
Internet is governed by Canada's human rights legislation. Also in
Telemanagement #167:

** Gerry Blackwell's assessment of LAN-based phone systems: 
   "They're small and rare, but they work."

** In "Apples, Oranges, and Benchmarks," Henry Dortmans 
   presents some factors to consider before comparing your 
   phone bills to those of another organization.

To subscribe to Telemanagement call 1-800-263-4415, ext 225, 
or visit http://www.angustel.ca/teleman/tm.html.


HOW TO SUBMIT ITEMS FOR TELECOM UPDATE

E-MAIL: editors@angustel.ca

FAX:    905-686-2655

MAIL:   TELECOM UPDATE 
        Angus TeleManagement Group
        8 Old Kingston Road
        Ajax, Ontario Canada L1T 2Z7

HOW TO SUBSCRIBE (OR UNSUBSCRIBE)

TELECOM UPDATE is provided in electronic form only. There 
are two formats available:

1. The fully-formatted edition is posted on the World 
   Wide Web on the first business day of the week at 
   http://www.angustel.ca/update/up.html

2. The e-mail edition is distributed free of 
   charge. To subscribe, send an e-mail message to 
   majordomo@angustel.ca. The text of the message 
   should contain only the two words: subscribe update

   To stop receiving the e-mail edition, send an e-mail 
   message to majordomo@angustel.ca. The text of the message 
   should say only: unsubscribe update [Your e-mail address]



COPYRIGHT AND DISCLAIMER: All contents copyright 1999 Angus 
TeleManagement Group Inc. All rights reserved. For further 
information, including permission to reprint or reproduce, 
please e-mail rosita@angustel.ca or phone 905-686-5050 ext 
225.

The information and data included has been obtained from 
sources which we believe to be reliable, but Angus 
TeleManagement makes no warranties or representations 
whatsoever regarding accuracy, completeness, or adequacy. 
Opinions expressed are based on interpretation of available 
information, and are subject to change. If expert advice on 
the subject matter is required, the services of a competent 
professional should be obtained.

------------------------------

From: John J. Brassil <John.J.Brassil@vanderbilt.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:59:30 -0500
Subject: A Week We Won't Forget!


Just read the reprint of the 25th anniversary piece in TELECOM Digest.
I was an 8-year old boy living in Houston, Texas at the time of the
landing, and my mother kept my sister and myself up late so we could
watch Armstrong's historic first steps "live" (in quotes because of
the transmission delays ;) .)  As long as I live, I'll never forget
that night, one of the few crystal clear memories I still have from my
childhood.

I just wanted to express my gratitude to Don Kimberlin for his part in
making it happen -- especially now because of what I do that I have a
better appreciation for what a tenuous thing it was!


John J. Brassil | Network Engineer, Vanderbilt Network Design & Engineering | 
615.322.2496


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Kimberlin is just one of many folks on
this mailing list who have had important roles at one time or another
in historic events involving telecommunications. I've always felt very
privileged to be among such an elite group. :)  Seriously.  But Don
Kimberlin's role in the 1969 moonwalk has always been one of the most
exciting for me. If anyone reading this has not yet had a change to
visit http://telecom-digest.org/camelot-on-the-moon.html  I hope you 
will do so today or tomorrow during this 30th anniversary observance
of 'one small step for man; a giant leap for mankind'.    PAT]

------------------------------

From: midshires@cix.co.uk (Andrew Emmerson)
Subject: Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers?
Date: 19 Jul 1999 14:17:41 GMT
Organization: CIX - Compulink Information eXchange
Reply-To: midshires@cix.co.uk


In article <telecom19.228.5@telecom-digest.org>, ahk@chinet.chinet.com
(Adam H. Kerman) wrote:

> The law doesn't protect our natural rights. It tends to take them away
> from many and give privileges to the few. The law didn't create the
> radio spectrum; it's a natural phenomenon that should be available for
> the benefit of all, not for the exclusive use of a few.

Sorry but this is absolute drivel.

You have no natural right to intercept other people's private
communications. Are you saying that I have a natural right to peep in
your mailbox, read the newspapers that have been delivered to you and
also open your mail, just because your mailbox does not have a padlock
on it? No, of course not.

Your so-called privileges awarded to the few have been assigned to
people (corporations) that have invested significant money to provide
a service that other people are happy to pay to use.

The radio spectrum is indeed a natural phenomenon, just like land. But
that doesn't give me the right to build a garage in your front garden
just because I feel like doing so. Land (and radio spectrum) are
apportioned according to a set of rules designed for harmonious living
and co-operation. If you don't want play by those rules, then you are
not a member of society and cannot expect society to protect what you
consider _your_ rights.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:41:23 -0700
From: Isaac Wingfield <isw@ictv.com>
Subject: Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems


Jonathan Seder <jonathan-nospam@syntel.com> wrote:


> I believe that with all cable modem systems, each different data rate
> and direction gets its own frequency band.  All the users of a
> particular data rate/direction share that single frequency band.  Thus,
> all 100K/500K users are in effect on a single full-duplex
> asymmetric-rate CSMA/CD LAN.

Cable Modems (at least contemporary ones -- DOCSIS-compliant) do not
operate in a CSMA/CD mode; they are not very "Ethernet-like" at
all. It is absolutely impossible for two modems to communicate if
directly connected together; a modem's output is not at all compatible
with its input. There is no equivalent to an Ethernet "crossover
cable". Data flow in both directions is orchestrated by gear installed
in the cable plant's headend.

All data to all modems in the system is scheduled by the headend, so
there is no possibility for collisions there. This is a classic
time-division-multiplex scheme, with data for various destination
modems lining up like so many boxcars in a train. The aggregate
downstream rate is either ~27 MBits/second, or ~38 MBits/second,
depending on whether 64 QAM or 256 QAM is used for modulation.

All upstream communication from each and every modem is also scheduled
from the headend, so (with one exception), no collisions ever occur in
that direction either. The exception is during the time when a modem
is "registering" to obtain permission to talk. That can occur during a
specified time in the TDM sequence when other modems are also
attempting to do the same thing, and collisions can occur. During the
times that "real" data is flowing, no collisions occur at all; this is
another TDM stream, except that successive packets of data may come
from entirely different transmitters, in entirely different parts of
the cable plant.

Messages sent downstream to all modems allow them to synchronize their
upstream transmissions so when their packets of data come together in
the cable "backbone", they fit together without overlap, just like the
boxcars in a railway switching yard. Upstream rates can vary depending
upon the amount of noise and interference in the cable at the chosen
frequency in a given plant, but will be between a few hundred
KBits/second and about 5 or 6 MBits/second.

It is perfectly possible for various clients within the same up- or
down-stream "channel" to have different data rates; is is merely
necessary to assign more time slots in the TDM stream to certain
modems. And of course, there is no necessary relation between the up-
and down-stream rates assigned to any given modem.

> Like Ethernet, performance falls off dramatically as usage crosses
> certain thresholds.  At the busy times of day - 5pm-9pm - individual
> users may get only a small fraction of the total data rate.

This is true, but not because of "collisions"; it's just that all the
available bandwidth is being used (and used rather efficiently, I
might add -- a lot of work went into developing strategies to do
that). Much of the problem seems to be a combination of "dOOdS"
providing "wAreZ" and people running gaming servers, both prohibited
by contract in many cable modem systems. Many Windows users are
knowingly or unknowingly sharing their hard drives with others in the
cable plant; this too adds congestion, and has caused some operators
to filter the offending ports.

Long-term strategies for improving performance include: Using more
downstream channels; using more upstream channels; dividing a cable
plant into smaller "service regions" so fewer clients compete for data
resources.  All of these, of course, cost money. In the future, look
for flexible provisioning, allowing people to pay for what they get
(and to be prevented from using what they don't pay for), and allowing
providers to offer different levels of QoS, at different price points.

Data rate allocation strategies, if not currently deployed modems,
make telephony over cable perfectly possible; not IP telephony, BTW --
the "real thing". That's a large part of the reason why AT&T invested
in TCI.


Isaac Wingfield                      Project Director
isw@ictv.com                         ICTV
Vox: 408-364-9201                    14600 Winchester Blvd.
Fax: 408-364-9300                    Los Gatos, CA 95030

------------------------------

From: Msgt Paul Berens <Paul.Berens@spacecom.af.mil>
Subject: Re: DSL and Cable Modems
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 06:55:20 -0600


Kevin DeMartino, Dynamics Research Corporation wrote:

> It is clear that in the next few years cable modems will provide
> subscribers with much higher data rates than digital subscriber line
> (DSL) techniques.  But what about the future?
	
The technical discussions of which technology, XDSL or Cable Modems,
will carry the most bits is interesting, but follow the money.  The
consumer wants one bill ( and the concomitant savings this should
produce due to lowered overhead) for his telephone, his ISP, and his
television/movies.  XDSL isn't going to carry "content" such as
television, right?  As long as that's true, seems to me we should bet
on the cable providers.  They can provide everything XDSL can provide
 -- plus content.


Paul Berens
paul.berens@ieee.org <mailto:paul.berens@ieee.org> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 07:26:58 -0700
From: Derek Balling <dredd@megacity.org>
Subject: Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems


>> Any ISP who actually subjected my packets to a transparent proxy like
>> that would pretty quickly find themselves minus one customer, IF I
>> didn't decide to sue them under the ECPA (Electronic Communications
>> Privacy Act).

> At which point the court will remind you that you signed (or verbally
> agreed to) a contract with them stating that they could, in fact, do
> whatever they want with your packets -- if indeed it didn't say that
> that packets weren't even yours anyway.

> Take a look at some of those service agreements.  A number of them are
> quite scary, and most people don't have the financial backing to tie
> a Fortune 50 company up in court for the decade it would take to
> resolve the legality thereof.  (Sure makes me glad I run my own dialup
> infrastructure and don't have to contract with a third-party ISP to
> get remote access like people at some other major US universities do.)

Actually, no. The ECPA is designed to prevent just such abuses. IIRC,
there are even provisions in the ECPA nullifying such clauses in
subscriber agreements, in favor of the law. (e.g., that the privacy
rights bestowed by the ECPA are not something you can waive).

Besides, who needs to worry about tying a Fortune 50 company up in a
court of law. Have you seen the state of affairs in tort law these
days? Tobacco, long considered the golden-child of financial
stability, just got hit with a judgment that amounts to 5% of their
Market-Cap.

All you have to do is count the number of users affected by the
proxy. Is it greater than 100? (I think 100 is the minimum for a
"Class"). Bang, instant class-action lawsuit. That means any of a
bajillion lawyers will happily swoop down and work for a percentage,
hoping to get the "Next Big Case".

They'd settle out of court in a heartbeat before they want to be
accused of snooping on everyone's data. Personal data security is the
big buzzword these days, and anyone not toeing the line on it finds
that the line has moved forward and they've been left behind.


D

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:07 EDT
From: Hugh Pritchard <Hugh.Pritchard@wcom.com>
Subject: Re: Answering Machines / Call Screening
Organization: MCI WorldCom


> We subscribe to Caller ID, but telemarketers are still driving us nuts
> with their "out-of-area" calls.

I work at an MCI site in northern Virginia, across the Potomac from
Washington, DC.  Used to be when I called my home in Maryland, the
Caller ID would display "MCI" and the main PBX number.  Fine.  Then
MCI took some (or all) of its sites "local," meaning MCI itself was
providing dial tone.  Now, when I call home the Caller ID box shows
"OUT OF AREA".  Not fine.  My family answers "OUT OF AREA" calls
on the chance that it's me.  Otherwise, nobody would answer "OUT
OF AREA" calls.  I heard a rumor at work that, since MCI now controls
dial tone, with all that may imply, MCI was generating the character
string "OUT OF AREA" for the CID name lookup for my site, which has a
few floors of telemarketers.


Hugh Pritchard, M.Sc.
Mailto: Hugh.Pritchard@WCom.com
metro Washington, DC

------------------------------

From: Marcy Dixon <thrak@swbell.net>
Subject: Data vrs. Voice Switch
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:43:30 -0500
Organization: SBC Internet Services


Can somebody please explain to me the difference between a voice
switch and a data switch? What's their functional difference? Can one
switch do both?  Would a telephone company want to put a data switch
in a central office? If so, are RBOCs forced to allow other telcos to
collocate these switches?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:12:44 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: You've Got Mail. You're Being Watched.


THE RIGHT THING

You've Got Mail. You're Being Watched.

By JEFFREY L. SEGLIN

It was tragic," recalled Mary Beth Heying, a principal at Edward Jones
& Company, the brokerage firm in St. Louis. In April, an employee had
complained to the human resources department after receiving an E-mail
containing inappropriate material, meaning off-color jokes, pornography
and so on. "We investigated and found that a large number of
associates were involved" in distributing such messages, Ms. Heying
said. Depending on "the egregiousness of their involvement," she said,
the company dismissed 19, warned 41 and allowed 1 to resign.

http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/07/biztech/articles/18ethics.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 03:13:22 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Bright Light to Offer Free Spam Protection


by James Niccolai, IDG News Service\San Francisco Bureau

Bright Light Technologies Inc. plans to introduce a free service for 
consumers on Monday designed to help them keep junkmail at bay.

Called Bright Mail, the service so far has only been available 
through Internet service providers (ISPs). Bright Light, of San 
Francisco hopes offering its service free to consumers will encourage 
them to ask ISPs to implement a commercial version, the company said 
in a statement.

http://www.idg.net/idgns/1999/07/16/BrightLightToOfferFreeSpam.shtml

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #230
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Mon Jul 19 15:52:29 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA23381;
	Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:52:29 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:52:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907191952.PAA23381@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #231

TELECOM Digest     Mon, 19 Jul 99 15:52:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 231

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: www. Prefixes (James Bellaire)
    Re: www. Prefixes (Dik Winter)
    Re: BellSouth MemoryCall Fails (John Warne)
    Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple (Roy Smith)
    Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple (David B)
    Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID? (Matthew Black)
    Re: Loud Cordless Phones (Julian Thomas)
    Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California (H Stein)
    Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free Numbers? (Bob Goudreau)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bellaire@tk.com (James Bellaire)
Subject: Re: www. Prefixes
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:16:44 GMT


It was Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:06:22 -0700, and Derek Balling
<dredd@megacity.org> wrote in comp.dcom.telecom:

>> You would name a router with the root name?  That really seems silly.

> It is, but I used it as an example.

>> Who outside of your tech staff even needs to know the name of your
>> router?  A name like sl-gw9-chi-5-2-1544k.sprintlink.net is fine for
>> a router, and the ROOT machine is the only one I suggest MUST have
>> HTTP.

> But you have no idea what that root machine will be. It COULD be a
> router, it could be a firewall. Any security expert will tell you not
> to run ANY services on your firewall.

I still have not seen firewalls and routers take on that root *name*.
I don't care what machine the packets hit first in your organization,
it is the machine named EXAMPLE.COM (nothing in front) that I'd like
to see used for http.

>>> Right. Instead of pushing for abolition of www. which will never happen,
>>> why not write up an RFC to add a new DNS record "WWW", which would say "if
>>> someone wants the web server for <domain>, they really want:
>>> www.domain.com, or sales.domain.com or whatever. You could even do some
>>> slick stuff like:

>> Ok -- now we would (theoretically) have an MX style record for every
>> domain.  Which wouldn't be too bad -- but it would require the redesign
>> of every browser in existance.  That has little chance of happening.

> Actually, the RFC was brought to my attention as already existing, and
> its a perfect example for this discussion. RFC2052 defines the "SRV"
> resource record in DNS, which allows you to define service->machine
> mappings, such as (using the example from RFC2052).

"RFC 2052 (Experimental)" - only one step better than "Informational".
Have you implemented RFC 1876 as well?  There are a lot of 'gee,
wouldn't it be nice' Experimental RFCs.  They all have their champions
but until the masses say 'gee, that WOULD be nice' they rest
comfortably in oblivion.

>   ; HTTP - server is the main server, new-fast-box is the backup
>   ; (On new-fast-box, the HTTP daemon runs on port 8000)

> http.tcp 	SRV 0 0 80 server.asdf.com.
> 		SRV 10 0 8000 new-fast-box.asdf.com.

> ; since we want to support both http://asdf.com/ and
> ; http://www.asdf.com/ we need the next two RRs as well

Wow.  Even the RFC written back in 1996 suggests that the root name
should be given to http.

> http.tcp.www 	SRV 0 0 80 server.asdf.com.
> 		SRV 10 0 8000 new-fast-box.asdf.com.
 ...
> Currently, no browsers support this (and the RFC acknowledges that the
> currently necessary "A" record mentality will persist for years to
> come), but all it requires is some pounding of drums and about ten
> lines of coding in browsers to add this functionality.  In fact, it is
> my intention to suggest it to the Mozilla team so that Netscape 5.0
> might very well support it (who knows).

Three years later and it still hasn't been widely accepted.  I wonder
how many admins have DNS files filled with experimental stuff?  It
makes sense to keep the files down to the required data.

> But all in all, this IS the answer to which you seek, all that needs to 
> have happen is for (a) implementation at the browser level, and (b) DNS 
> admins to implement it.

B is pointless unless (a) is widely done.

>> Just get your router / firewall to route based on port.  [...]

> Ack! you've obviously never purchased memory from Cisco before. :)
> Fill your router's memory with a large BGP table and tell me how much
> more room you have left to route a whole bunch of separate port
> routings for the web farm (of hundreds of IP's) that you may have
> behind the router.

It is an option.  Similar to RFC 2052, except with local routing one
does not need to rely on others to implement a lesser known feature.

>> I still remember when my ISP was small enough that all the services
>> ran easily off of the same machine and all those FQDN prefixes were
>> not needed at all.  Now they have pop. mail. smtp. news. www. members.
>> ftp. telnet. - a bit confusing and a lot more to remember and type.

> C'est la vie. The core of the problem is that people want the "small
> intimate internet" they remember. Pandora cracked the lid on that box
> a long time ago and it won't be coming back any time soon.

The problem is with people with no memories at all.  The newbies who
just want information or stuff.  If they get errors at your site then
they will go elsewhere.  You may say "good riddence" but your site
loses traffic.

>> The root machine can support more than one service.  So what will the
>> 'next' protocol be?  We had a couple of years warning on HTTP.

> Who knows what the next protocol will be ... the point is that we have
> to be FORWARD thinking and not just worried about the laziness of
> wanting to save four keystrokes on URL's. Wanting to save two
> keystrokes on dates is getting us into a whole lot of trouble here in
> a few months. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Until then we can have the root named machines handle http.
I came from a school of programming where the programmer had to
anticipate the errors of the user and the program must 1) not crash on
bad data and 2) use bad data to the best of its ability.  Browsers
have embraced this school of thought.  Just look at all the garbage
one can type in the GO TO line and still get a site!  A far cry from
Lynx where (last time I checked) one still had to type http:// .

>> Mail has intelligent software with MX records.  You can email me
>> @TK.COM with little thought to my mail server's real name.  (And the
>> way it is set up, you could email to bellaire@whatever.tk.com and
>> still get connected.  The magic of domain mail.

> Agreed. Which is why I like the neat RFC I mentioned above. It
> addresses both issues - forward compatibility (which makes the current
> "www."  necessary), as well as the "simplicity" approach you and Pat
> favor. As soon as browser vendors implement RFC2052, that problem goes
> away.

Are you waiting for Hell, Michigan to freeze over?  That happens every
year.  Seeing RFC 2052 implemented even on the server side won't
happen that soon.  Allowing the root name to go to http is a fix that
is used successfully NOW and was being used before 1996 when RFC 2052
was published.

I would love it if the browser builders would implement HTML properly.
They have enough problems without experimental RFCs.

>> You can also visit http://BELLAIRE@TK.COM/ and get to my site, because
>> I had the foresight to demand that the root of the domain went to the
>> server.  (http://editor@telecom-digest.org/ also works.)

> Actually, I think those would break on Mozilla (because the "user@
> domain" syntax in a URL is technically "broken" from a standards-
> compliance perspective), since part of the benefits of Mozilla was
> that it was going to enforce standards ... I don't know if that's the
> case or not though.

It works on Mo.  I have yet to be able to use it on the server side.
Personally I'd like to have urls like http://jones@tk.com/ and
http://smith@tk.com/ instead of the /~jones variety.  The user@host
syntax does work for FTP on Mozilla.

>> But "the easy way" reflects the new breed of (how can I say this
>> nicely?) technically incompetent users.

> Then that "new breed" must also come to grips with the fact that there
> is a learning curve they must adhere to. Before cars first became
> popular, only a few people learned to drive, and they learned in
> intricate detail how to do it safely (or they tried anyway). When cars
> became popular, to use your thinking, all the rules of the road would
> have been simplified, to make way for the "lowest common denominator".

Tell you what.  Your company can have the business from the 10%'rs who
understand all this http/html/www/??? stuff and I'll take the lusers
who have money to burn.  Deal?  (Actually my site is non commercial,
so I don't make money -- but I'd rather have people find my site useful
than go to someone elses.)

> Instead, the government realized that they needed to adhere to
> standards, and the drivers were required to learn a little about how
> to drive safely, and pass a test before they could actually go out on
> the road.

Think about it this way:  The first cars required a deeper knowledge
of the vehicle itself to get it to go.  All the button pushing and
cranking -- plus roadside repairs on many trips.  The modern vehicle
takes care of all that for you.  Put in gas.  Turn key.  Go.

By comparison any idiot and his grandma could drive a modern car (and
do by what I've seen on the roads).  The first cars could only be
driven by those with the knowledge to keep it running.

>> The end goal of communication is getting the message across.  If that
>> means pulling a few technical tricks like root naming the web server
>> I don't mind.

> But you do that (RFC2052 excepted) at the expense of a root address
> which you may find VERY valuable down the road.

When I need that address I'll reclaim it.  I don't mind the editing.
Besides -- if RFC 2052 takes off then I can just point the http traffic
away -- and STILL have an easy to remember and type URL.

>> Final note: Please note that mail to @whatever.tk.com may fail on
>> systems that try to find the MX for each machine instead of routing
>> the domain mail to the domain's MS server.

> Actually, you ARE aware that the "order of operations" should be (for
> the example above):

> First Choice: the MX record for whatever.tk.com (if it exists)
> Second Choice: the MX record for tk.com (if it exists)
> Third Choice: direct delivery to whatever.tk.com
> Fourth Choice: bounce mail to sender as undeliverable

Then one of my ISPs is broken because it is skipping choice two (and
possibly choice one).

> But I think we're just about surpassing the "relevant to telecom"
> ratio on this thread so maybe we should kill it now ... we know the
> solution (RFC2052) and all it takes is for vendors to implement it. :)

Ahh, but telecom is so many things!  Let us know when the experimental
RFC2052 is in all browsers (including Lynx) and on the majority of
domains.  Until then I'll burn my root machine name any way I want.


James Bellaire


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I personally think the way I have my
web name set up is ideal for my needs. Most everyone here knows that
http://telecom-digest.org is just an alias which is forwarded to the
much longer, harder to remember name:

     http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/index.html

All my alias does is point there. I like to think of it as the same
as one of the old-fashioned 'cable addresses' used years ago so that
people could easily remember the address of the place where wished
to send a message. 

Just as I do not like the use of 'www' on the front of the name, I
really do not care for 'index.html' on the end of it either,
especially since if 'index.html' is present in a directory, the user
will be sent there automatically. 

Another good thing about using an alias like 'telecom-digest.org' is
that in the event I was asked to move to some other site -- if LCS/MIT
no longer wanted me at the site or needed the resources to use for
something else, it would be a simple matter to place the archives
directory elsewhere and have the alias point at that instead.   PAT]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:03:40 +0200 
From: Dik.Winter@cwi.nl (Dik Winter)
Subject: Re: www. Prefixes


>> Who outside of your tech staff even needs to know the name of your
>> router?  A name like sl-gw9-chi-5-2-1544k.sprintlink.net is fine for
>> a router, and the ROOT machine is the only one I suggest MUST have
>> HTTP.

> But you have no idea what that root machine will be. It COULD be a
> router, it could be a firewall.

And it could be nothing at all.  There is for instance *no* machine
with the name "cwi.nl", the domain from which I write this.


dik

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:34:56 -0400
From: John Warne <warnejw@sbac.edu>
Subject: Re: BellSouth MemoryCall Fails


David A. Burton wrote:

> I think they are using a Nortel DMS-100.  I don't know what an "Octal
> VM" is.  Is it just another brand and model of switch?

An Octal VoiceMail platform ("box") is produced by a third-party
company, and can be used with any number of different type Central
Office switches.  BellSouth seems to like the Octal line of VM units,
and, until a few years ago, the DMS-100.

Let me give an example: 955-7522 has a voicemail box. 955-7502 does
not.  955-7502 does not have a transfer mailbox installed. 955-7502
call forwards to 955-7522. You call 955-7502. You will get the generic
"Hello, you have reached the BS MemoryCall service ..."

Now, BS places a transfer mailbox on 955-7502. 955-7502 call forwards
to 955-7522. When you call 955-7502, you get the greeting for
955-7522.

> That guy believed that I must have already had a transfer mailbox for
> the six months that it worked correctly, but someone noticed the
> mistake and removed it.  I asked how I could have had a transfer
> mailbox, and he said that the number might have been entered
> accidentally, by someone who typed the number while trying to enter
> one of my ringmaster numbers.  Yeah, right.

OK, this *could* be correct. Or, BS *could* have changed the global
flag.  Or a software update to the Octal or to the switch *could* have
changed the flag state. No way to really tell at this point unless
somebody 'fesses up.

> However, I question whether the guy even knew what he was talking
> about when he said that a transfer mailbox would work.  I doubt that
> it would work.  A transfer mailbox is what they use to make MemoryCall
> work when a call is made to a RingMaster number and is NOT forwarded
> elsewhere.  What good would it do to have a transfer mailbox on a
> phone number which is forwarded elsewhere?  Suppose I had a transfer
> mailbox on that line and forwarded it to my friend's phone, who also
> has MemoryCall service.  Am I to believe that callers would still get
> MY memorycall, rather than hers?  I strongly suspect that a transfer
> mailbox would only work when the calls were NOT forwarded.

I've not been through the scenario with BS here for *RingMaster* numbers,
so can't comment.

And, David Charles made an excellent point in an earlier Digest:

> Also specifications are often written assuming that all switches
> involved and the signalling systems connecting them comply with the
> same specifications, whereas this is frequently not the case.

------------------------------

From: roy@endeavor.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Subject: Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple
Organization: NYU School of Medicine, Educational Computing
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:53:59 -0400


tls@rek.tjls.com wrote:

> Typical sleazy Bell behaviour.  I certainly wouldn't reward it by
> ordering DSL from them when there are many excellent alternatives.

There problem is that there are only many excellent alternatives if
you live in one of the areas where the alternatives exist.  I live in
the Bronx, which last time I checked was considered to be within the
borders of New York City (well, at least that's what the taxman says).
My neighborhood got cable TV only a couple of years ago (I did not
subscribe) but everytime I've called and asked about cable modem, they
say it's not available and they have no information as to when it
might be.

I expect the DSL rollout will be like the ISDN rollout was a few years
ago; after dragging their feet as long as they could, they will
finally make it available in one or two select COs and it will be
another year or two before it's available everywhere.

We had a meeting with BA about 6 months ago about DSL.  The word we
got was they expect that less than half the local loops in the city
will qualify in terms of wire-feet and quality limits.  My line has RF
filters on it so I don't get WABC radio on the phone.  My guess is it
won't pass DSL specs.


Roy Smith <roy@popmail.med.nyu.edu>
New York University School of Medicine

------------------------------

From: David B <davidby*NOSPAM@banet.net>
Subject: Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:25:17 -0400
Organization: Global Network Services - Remote Access Mail & News Services


In my view, Infospeed is the best broadband/high speed option over copper
for consumers offered in New York City. 

David Thor Lancelot Simon <tls@panix.com> wrote in message
news:telecom19.228.11@telecom-digest.org:

> One they've had for _months_ from other non-monopoly providers.  Bell
> Atlantic is the last one to arrive at the party on this one.  No doubt
> they'll use their massive monopoly free marketing powers to establish
> some market share nonetheless (see below).

> * ISDN service was, of course, an offering of their _regulated_
>   entity, but the Infospeed DSL product is sold by their
>   _unregulated_ internet subsidiary.  Cross-marketing like this
>   is a big no-no in the eyes of most state PSCs but clearly
>   they figured if it created enough confusion to keep them in
>   the game for the year or so that others offered DSL but they
>   didn't, it was worth a slap on the wrist.

> Typical sleazy Bell behaviour.  I certainly wouldn't reward it by
> ordering DSL from them when there are many excellent alternatives.

------------------------------

From: black@csulb.edu (Matthew Black)
Subject: Re: Does Anyone on the West Coast Use Caller ID?
Date: 19 Jul 1999 14:29:45 GMT


In article <telecom19.223.14@telecom-digest.org>, ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu 
says:

[original message edited for brevity--matt 990719]

> A better way to handle it would be to have the hospital's main
> information/switchboard number come up no matter what extension
> was used for the outbound call.  Maybe they can't or don't know
> how to set that up.

Maybe they have unidirectional T1's connected to their PBX: one set
with DID service for inbound calls and another set for outbound calls.
That's precisely the way our Ericsson MD110 is connected to GTE Califonia.
Maybe you can explain to our telecom department how they might do this.
P.S. I'm not the Telecom Manager ... I'm a Network Analyst.

  -------------------------------(c) 1999 Matthew Black, all rights reserved--
matthew black                   | Opinions expressed herein belong to me and
network & systems specialist    | may not reflect those of my employer
california state university     | 
network services SSA-180E       |             e-mail: black at csulb dot edu
1250 bellflower boulevard       |   PGP fingerprint: 6D 14 36 ED 5F 34 C4 B3
long beach, ca 90840            |                    E9 1E F3 CB E7 65 EE BC


------------------------------

From: jt5555@epix.net (Julian Thomas)
Subject: Re: Loud Cordless Phones
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:35:59 GMT


In <telecom19.228.8@telecom-digest.org>, on 07/18/99 at 09:32 PM,
richard1942@my-deja.com said:

> I am looking for a new
> cordless phone that has a very loud ringer on it to use outside the house
> when I'm in the pool.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Have you considered a fixed ringer box on the side of the house?  Check
Mike Sandman's catalog or web site (http:// www.sandman.com ....).
 

 Julian Thomas: jt 5555 at epix dot net  http://home.epix.net/~jt
 remove numerics for email
 Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc  http://www.possi.org
 In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!

 If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished!


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Definitly pick up a copy of Mike Sandman's
catalog. It should be part of every telecom manager's resources.  PAT]

------------------------------

From: herb@herbstein.com (Herb Stein)
Subject: Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:32:42 GMT
Organization: newsread.com ISP News Reading Service (http://www.newsread.com)


I find, here in Missouri, that the 636 area code, which is new and
still allows permissive dialing, allows 10-digit dialing. 1 is not
required.  Hopefully SWBT implements this correctly. My folks number
(long distance) require a 1 in front.

In article <telecom19.228.6@telecom-digest.org>, Tom.Horsley@worldnet.att.net 
(Thomas A. Horsley) wrote:

> My proposal for increasing acceptance of ten digit dialing:

> Hey phone companies! Make your $#@! machines accept ten digit dialing
> for all numbers even if its NOT a long distance call! That way, I
> could get used to dialing ten digits before it suddenly became
> mandatory, and, even more important, I could get my computer to always
> dial ten digits and I wouldn't have to keep reprogramming it every
> time you change something.


Herb Stein
The Herb Stein Group
www.herbstein.com
herb@herbstein.com
314 215-3584

------------------------------

From: Bob Goudreau <goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:04 EDT
Subject: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free Numbers?


Recent discussion of Toronto's upcoming move away from 7-digit dialing
got me to pondering the issue of toll-free dialing in a 10D/11D
dialing regime (where 10D can be used for local numbers, but toll
calls require 1+10D).  Since calls to NPAs 800, 888, 877, etc. cost
the caller the same amount (zero) as does a local call, should
toll-free numbers be dialable as straight 10D (no 1+ required,
although it should still certainly be permitted) in such areas?

How about it, readers who live in Maryland, Atlanta, Denver, Dallas,
etc.:  can you dial toll free numbers using just 10D, or does only
the 1+10D format work?


Bob Goudreau			Data General Corporation
goudreau@rtp.dg.com		62 Alexander Drive	
+1 919 248 6231			Research Triangle Park, NC  27709, USA

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #231
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Mon Jul 19 19:39:10 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA03662;
	Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:39:10 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:39:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907192339.TAA03662@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #232

TELECOM Digest     Mon, 19 Jul 99 19:39:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 232

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    telecom-digest.org Site Map (TELECOM Digest Editor)
    Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems (Thor Lancelot Simon)
    Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple (Thor L. Simon)
    V-H Coordinates Information Needed (Ronald W. Roberts)
    Re: Century 21 (Lowell Kim)
    Re: Century 21 (Bob Goudreau)
    Re: Century 21 (David Clayton)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (J.F. Mezei)
    Re: www. Prefixes (Barry Margolin)
    Re: www. Prefixes (Randolph J. Herber)
    Re: Last Laugh? Some People Don't Think it Was Funny (Fred Atkinson)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
    Re: Last Laugh? Some People Don't Think it Was Funny (Cortland Richmond)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:12:57 EDT
From: TELECOM Digest Editor <ptownson@telecom-digest.org>
Subject: telecom-digest.org Site Map


At the request of several users of the web site, here is a comprehensive
list of the various components to the site at the present time. The
index of the archives was updated and released not long ago, and is
not being included at this time.

http://telecom-digest.org    
 
    The primary entrance or starting point to the web site.

http://telecom-digest.org/archives

    The root directory for the Telecom Archives. Numerous sub-directories
    branch off from here to the back issues, special reports, technical
    files, etc. The index to this area was released recently and is
    not being repeated or included here.

http://telecom-digest.org/camelot-on-the-moon.html

    The 30th anniversary special report on the 1969 Apollo Saturn 11
    trip to the moon, by Don Kimberlin.

http://telecom-digest.org/chat

    An IRC-based chat room for telecom topics. This is java-based and
    uses a hook into irc.ram-page.com #telecom-topics as a convenience
    for users. If you prefer, an IRC client linked to irc.ram-page.com
    will reach the same channel. This is a completely non-commercial,
    not for profit service. You may also listen to CNN Headline News
    in the background while chatting if you wish to do so.

http://telecom-digest.org/latest-issue.html

    If you would prefer to pick up the latest issue of TELECOM Digest
    on your own instead of having it delivered in email, go to
    this location where the last issue released is always available,
    with a link back to the main site itself if desired. Warning:
    each new issue of the Digest erases the previous contents of this
    file. If you only use this once a day, you may well miss a prior
    issue from earlier in the day, in which case you would need to
    go into /archives/back.issues/recent.single.issues to get the
    ones you missed. This 'directory' is actually just an alias
    link into the deep archives for the purpose of a convenient 
    shortcut for users.

http://telecom-digest.org/linkspage.html

    An extensive collection of telecom-related web sites recommended
    as further resources for your review. 

http://telecom-digest.org/moderator

    Just me, a visual presentation chatting about the Digest and Archives.

http://telecom-digest.org/news

    The Telecom Digest Daily E-News. Up to the minute news reports of
    telecom-specific events, plus national and international news from
    a number of net sources. Typically this is a selection of about
    a hundred feature stories from a couple dozen sites I call 'the
    best of the net'. This is updated several times daily, and if you
    wish you can have the Associated Press Audio Internet news feed
    in the background as you read, or alternatively, CNN Headline News
    on a continous, live feed.

http://telecom-digest.org/postoffice

    A private email service. Users may have internet email addresses
    under any name they choose for the purpose of remaining anonymous
    and avoiding the usual flood of spam which comes to their 'real'
    or main email address following any public posting. When these
    addreses of the form 'username@telecom-digest.zzn.com' become
    polluted with spam, simply toss them out and obtain a new one.

http://telecom-digest.org/search

    Several templates for use in searching not only the telecom-digest.org
    web site and the thousands of files in /archives, but also for
    use in searching the entire web, and Usenet newsgroups.

http://telecom-digest.org/secret-surfer.html

    Surf the web anonymously, keeping identifying features about your
    browser and IP address private. This service 'loops' your traffic
    through a couple of proxy servers on the way to its final
    destination. 

http://telecom-digest.org/sponsorlinks.html

    Our 'sponsors page' with links to the International Telecommunication
    Union, Mike Sandman, and Paula Pettis, all of whose generosity
    makes this activity possible. Also, a short message about the
    importance of gifts from users -- people known as Friends of 
    TELECOM Digest -- whose participation is also invaluable.

http://telecom-digest.org/TELECOM_Digest_Online

    This is the Usenet comp.dcom.telecom newsgroup for users who
    prefer to see telecom news in 'single message style' rather
    than in 'digest format'. Users can sort the several hundred
    past messages available at any given time by date with the 
    most recent on top, by author name, by subject title, or by
    thread. comp.dcom.telecom is a *moderated* Usenet newsgroup.
    
http://telecom-digest.org/tribute

    Tribute to the Telephone, an online 'telephone museum' edited
    and maintained by David Massey. Hundreds of files and pictures
    from the early days of telephony. This directory includes its
    own search engine. 

http://telecom-digest.org/webchat

    An open-posting area for users where public notices, for-sale
    items, personal opinions, questions/answers and short comments
    may be posted by anyone without review, but subject to
    removal after-the-fact if necessary. You might call it our
    'guestbook' feature, or 'user bulletin board'.

http://telecom-digest.org/y2k-countdown.html

    A year 2000 countdown clock showing the days, hours, minutes
    and seconds remaining until the year 2000, as applicable from
    the time zone in which you are calling.

                  ===============================

Feel free to visit any of the above services which interest you. A
few other directories not listed above are intended for internal
use and are not directly accessible but will open as 'new windows'
when you are located on the individual directories above. 


Patrick Townson

------------------------------

From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon)
Subject: Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems
Date: 19 Jul 1999 15:46:05 -0400
Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp.
Reply-To: tls@rek.tjls.com


In article <telecom19.230.4@telecom-digest.org>, Isaac Wingfield
<isw@ictv.com> wrote:

> This is true, but not because of "collisions"; it's just that all the
> available bandwidth is being used (and used rather efficiently, I
> might add -- a lot of work went into developing strategies to do
> that). Much of the problem seems to be a combination of "dOOdS"
> providing "wAreZ" and people running gaming servers, both prohibited
> by contract in many cable modem systems. Many Windows users are
> knowingly or unknowingly sharing their hard drives with others in the
> cable plant; this too adds congestion, and has caused some operators
> to filter the offending ports.

No, that's *not*, as far as I know, the problem.

Most performance problems with cable modems seem to stem from two
causes, probably operating in combination in many real-world systems:

	1) The underlying RF carrier systems don't work very well in
	   an urban environment with many active users.  The modems
	   were never really tested in such an environment, and
	   "surprise"... of course it's rather difficult to accurately
	   model such an environment to develop better modems, and now
	   that large numbers of (flawed) modems are deployed, it's
	   hard to test in the real world.  I may be one of the few 
	   people on RCN's Manhattan system, for example, who has 
	   expressed my willingness to allow an engineer from the 
	   modem manufacturer sit in my apartment with a 'scope for 
	   hours, and anyway they can't cut over my whole building just
	   to cooperate with me! :-)

	2) The people who did the link-layer protocols didn't understand
	   how TCP/IP worked, and basically managed to totally break it
	   by introducing a pathological condition.  It's the classic
	   issue of running TCP over a reliable link-layer with even a
	   moderate bandwidth-delay product:  the link layer tries to be
	   "smart" and retransmit packets it knows were lost, which
	   makes TCP's timers not work, leading to synchronization of
	   TCP timers throughout the system and massive retransmission
	   storms.  See Karn's work on this topic based on the reverse-
	   engineering of his own cable modem.  This is truly idiotic and
	   of course the modem manufacturers will be loathe to admit
	   that they screwed up and fix things...

So, between 1) -- which causes loss of packets -- and 2) which causes
worst-case behaviour in cases of packet loss or congestion, many urban
cable-modem systems are basically useless during peak hours.  Whatever
the theoretical advantages may be, the implementations are so awful
(and standardized to be awful!) that in the real world, DSL is far, far
better.


Thor Lancelot Simon	                           tls@rek.tjls.com
	"And where do all these highways go, now that we are free?"

------------------------------

From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon)
Subject: Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple
Date: 19 Jul 1999 15:51:45 -0400
Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp.
Reply-To: tls@rek.tjls.com


In article <telecom19.231.5@telecom-digest.org>,
David B  <davidby*NOSPAM@banet.net> wrote, in response to my suggestion
that those seeking high-speed Internet access *not* choose Bell Atlantic's
DSL offering over one of the other excellent alternatives, due to Bell's
sleazy marketing practices:

> In my view, Infospeed is the best broadband/high speed option over copper
> for consumers offered in New York City. 

David, I note that your email address is at "banet.net".  Do you work
for Bell Atlantic, or are you a customer?  If the latter, have you
actually tried any other carrier's ADSL offering, or are you speaking
solely on the basis of your positive experience with Bell's offering?

I don't know whether Bell Atlantic's DSL offering is any good or not.
I *do* know that several other carriers offer equivalent pricing and
service and that some of these have excellent reputations.  I also
know that those carriers have been active in the NYC market for some
time and consequently have a longer track record WRT DSL service than
Bell Atlantic does.  And lastly, I know that Bell Atlantic used its
monopoly power to try to push DSL to its regulated telephone service
customers even when it didn't have a DSL product to sell them,
presumably in the hope of creating confusion and keeping those
customers away from other providers.  Those are plenty of reasons to
avoid "Infospeed DSL" for me.

In article <telecom19.231.4@telecom-digest.org>, Roy Smith
<roy@endeavor.med.nyu.edu> wrote:

> tls@rek.tjls.com wrote:

>> Typical sleazy Bell behaviour.  I certainly wouldn't reward it by
>> ordering DSL from them when there are many excellent alternatives.

> There problem is that there are only many excellent alternatives if
> you live in one of the areas where the alternatives exist.  I live in
> the Bronx, which last time I checked was considered to be within the
> borders of New York City (well, at least that's what the taxman says).
> My neighborhood got cable TV only a couple of years ago (I did not
> subscribe) but everytime I've called and asked about cable modem, they
> say it's not available and they have no information as to when it
> might be.

Have you tried other DSL providers?  They can typically deliver DSL
service to everywhere Bell Atlantic can, and some places where they
can't.


Thor Lancelot Simon	                            tls@rek.tjls.com
	"And where do all these highways go, now that we are free?"

------------------------------

From: Ronald W. Roberts <rwr@robcom.com>
Subject: V-H Coordinates Information Needed
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:16:21 -0400
Organization: Roberts Communications


Where can I get information on the V-H coordinates used to calculate
distances between two telephone numbers?  What I'm looking for is a
table of the area codes plus exchanges and the coordinates and how to
do the calculation.


Thanks in advance for any help or direction you may provide.


Ronald W. Roberts
Roberts Communication
rwr@robcom.com
                        ___
                       (   )
      \\\|///      ____|___|
     \\ - - //        /     \
      ( @ @ )        C  o *  D
---o00o-(_)-o00o--o00o---U---o00o----
           KEEP SMILING
     it makes people wonder
     what you've been up to

------------------------------

From: lowellkim@aol.com (Lowell Kim)
Date: 19 Jul 1999 13:59:34 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Century 21


Regardless of arguments about glitches and irregularities in the way
the current calendar progressed, the fact is that the current calendar
is what we are going by, and the fact is that the first year of a
century begins with 1 and ends with 100. The new millenium begins in
2001. Why do you think the book and movie were called "2001: A Space
Odyssey"?

------------------------------

From: Bob Goudreau <goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:18 EDT
Subject: Re: Century 21


Our esteemed editor wrote:

> My belief is that since we are not considered one year old on the day
> that we are born and that twelve months has to pass before we are
> entitled to claim '1', that the Christian Era -- since that is how
> we choose to number things now -- began at the time of the birth
> of the historic Jesus, twelve months prior to '1'; a year prior to
> the year known as '1'.

I don't think that's correct.  The first year of the Christian era
is A.D. 1 -- the "A.D." means "Anno Domini", which is Latin for "in
the year of our Lord".  i.e., the year 1 supposedly was the first
year of Jesus Christ's life.  As you have pointed out, we know that
Dennis the monk make some errors of calculation, and in any case, there
is still no universal agreement about in which year the actual birth
occurred; 4 BC is only one of the popular candidate years.  (There's
even less knowledge about what time of year it was; the current
Christmas holiday began as an attempt to Christianize the existing
pagan winter solstice festival.)

But the idea of the BC/AD calendrical system is that there is *some*
arbitrarily-defined epoch point, before which the years are denoted as
"BC" and after which the years get "AD" monikers.  It's no longer all
that important whether that epoch point exactly corresponds to the
time of someone's birth.

> It was a year we would now perhaps call zero
> although it was known by some other name at that time. None the less,
> that period of time existed, and rightfully is part of our current
> frame of reference. Therefore, two thousand years have passed as of
> this coming December 31.

Well, no, because the era since the arbitrary epoch point began when
31 December 1 BC ticked over into 1 January AD 1, meaning that 1
January AD 2000 will mark only the 1999th anniversary of that event.

> one could say we are three years into the new millenium
> already. There was no 'zero' only because they had no real under-
> standing of what 'zero' meant.

But even if they did, they probably wouldn't have decreed a "year 0"
anyway.  That's because the numbers used for years are *ordinal*
numbers:  AD 1 is the *first* year after the epoch point; 1 BC is the
*first* year before that point.  Ordinal numbers begin at "first",
which is why a gold-medalist or a pennant winner gets first place,
not zeroth place.  And it's the same reason why the year begins on
the first day of the first month, instead of on the zeroth day of
the zeroth month.  So, those folks who feel strongly that there was
such as thing as the "year 0" should explain to us why they want to
celebrate the new millennium on 1/1/2000 instead of on 0/0/2000. :-)
The rest of us will wait for 1/1/2001.


Bob Goudreau			Data General Corporation
goudreau@rtp.dg.com		62 Alexander Drive	
+1 919 248 6231			Research Triangle Park, NC  27709, USA


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note:

> AD 1 is the *first* year after the epoch point ...

The first FULLY COMPLETED year. What do you plan to do about the 365
days prior to the completion of the first year? Are you suggesting
that 1/365th part of 1 is equal to 1? If you believe as you apparently
do that he was born on the date 1/1/1  then you are correct that we
have to reach 12/31/2001 for two thousand years. If you believe as I
do that he was born on 1/1/(for-lack-of-a-better-name)'zero' then 
you celebrate the millenium in five months. We say his date of birth
occurred 1999 years ago, and as of 1/1/2000 we will say his birth
occurred two thousand years ago. Doesn't this all come down to whether
or not you can rightfully claim to be one year old on the day you
were born?   PAT]

------------------------------

From: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au (David Clayton)
Subject: Re: Century 21
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:56:01 GMT
Organization: Customer of Connect.com.au Pty. Ltd.
Reply-To: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au


Derek Balling <dredd@megacity.org> contributed the following:

>> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I was thinking along those lines, but
>> not sure where to start it or quite how to implement it. As of yet,
>> I've not received any responses from anyone willing to do it. I do
>> believe TELECOM Digest has a challenge however, as we enter Century 21
>> in just a little over five months.

> ARRRRRGGGGHHHH!!

> We enter the 21st Century in a little over SEVENTEEN months.

> There WAS no year zero, so century 1 was 1..100, 2 was 101..200, etc,
> up to 20 which is 1901..2000. 21st will begin on 1/1/2001.

> You're not alone in this, Pat, by any stretch of the imagination, and
> I'm sure you recognize this fact full-well, but let's try NOT to be
> intellectual lemmings and follow the unwashed masses in their
> collective delusion about when the 21st century starts. ;-)
 .....
> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I am not unwashed. I took a bath just
> last week. I have heard all the arguments which say 'there was no
> year zero so we need to pick up the zeroeth year on the back end in
> order to complete the century' many times. That would be all well
> and good except you puritans are forgetting a few things about the
> history of calendars and time-keeping itself.
 .....

I'm so glad that we can correct the "mistake" all of those people made
in 1901 when they celebrated the start of the 20th Century, (we must
know better, don't we?).

The only problem is that if 1999 is the last year of this century, then
we all have been short changed as it will only have run 99 years!

Ripped off by corporate greed again, after all what are the reasons we
can't wait one more year to celebrate this "event" anyway?

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/AA/faq/docs/millennium.html


Regards, 

David Clayton, e-mail: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

Dilbert's words of wisdom #18: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: People are entitled to celebrate
anything they please on any day they please. There were many people
who celebrated on 1/1/1901 but there were an equal or larger number
who celebrated on 1/1/1900 as well. Some probably used both dates as
an excuse for drunken, rowdy and profane excesses in their behavior
as I am sure will happen this time as well. See my answer to Bob G.
above. If you claim credit for a year at the time of his birth now
you get to 'pay back' that year and wait seventeen months. If you 
instead say he was born 1/1/sometime and as of a year later we were
at 1 (complete year) AD then you go with the end of this year.  PAT]

------------------------------

From: J.F. Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:10:37 -0400


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note:

> Of course some merchants have a horrible track-record for fraud as
> well. Amoco had this one dealer in Chicago on Congress Parkway on
> the south edge of downtown, where it turns into the expressway.

Petrol stations have "special" status with credit card companies. The
big firms, as a whole, provide a very acceptable level of fraud
(percentage of total sales), even though the fraud amounts are high,
but the legit sales are so high that the bank/credit card company
cannot afford to lose this customer (the gas company).

In Canada, one of the bigger problems banks had with petrol stations
was the inablity to pinpoint the source of fraud as all tickets were
processed centrally by the company and sent as "one account" to the
bank (one merchant number). It took some time, but that was eventually
resolved. And the bank will work with the petrol company to find the
crooks that operate the petrol stations here and there.

Interestingly, with e-commerce, this is not a problem as you have a
central location for a merchant for global operations. Where the
problem may begin to show is if the merchant is in a country with very
lax rules and nothing is enforced.  It may take enough time for a
merchant to be cancelled to make it worth it to try to defraud
customers on the internet.

But it is nothing new. Telemarketing fraud has existed for a long
time. They target elderly people who don't really have a clue as to
what is happening.  Well e-commerce con artists target the adults who
are new to this and have no clue how the internet works. Same story.

------------------------------

From: Barry Margolin <barmar@bbnplanet.com>
Subject: Re: www. Prefixes
Organization: GTE Internetworking, Cambridge, MA
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:43:05 GMT


In article <telecom19.231.1@telecom-digest.org>, James Bellaire
<bellaire@tk.com> wrote:

> It was Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:06:22 -0700, and Derek Balling
> <dredd@megacity.org> wrote in comp.dcom.telecom:

>> Actually, the RFC was brought to my attention as already existing, and
>> its a perfect example for this discussion. RFC2052 defines the "SRV"
>> resource record in DNS, which allows you to define service->machine
>> mappings, such as (using the example from RFC2052).

> "RFC 2052 (Experimental)" - only one step better than "Informational".
> Have you implemented RFC 1876 as well?  There are a lot of 'gee,
> wouldn't it be nice' Experimental RFCs.  They all have their champions
> but until the masses say 'gee, that WOULD be nice' they rest
> comfortably in oblivion.

The masses will soon be using this, because Windows 2000 makes use of it.


Barry Margolin, barmar@bbnplanet.com
GTE Internetworking, Powered by BBN, Burlington, MA
*** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:05:50 +0000 (GMT)
From: herber@dcdrjh.fnal.gov (Randolph J. Herber)
Subject: Re: www. Prefixes
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory


In article <telecom19.224.6@telecom-digest.org>, Derek J. Balling
<dredd@megacity.org> wrote:

>> That is obvious.  But it is also obvious that the primary means of
>> connecting over the Internet has moved to HTTP.  I believe that the
>> main machine in a domain (any one using the "root" domain as a name)
>> should support http -- if only by forwarding it to the proper server.

> So even though a particular machine may be something as completely 
> specialized as a Cisco router, you would burden it with the overhead of 
> maintaining a miniature web server, just because you're too lazy to think 
> about the FQDN of the machine you want to connect to?

	[snip]

	If the device is going to be in the ``network'' anyway,
	the overhead of a web server is about 50K bytes.  I have
	seen several commercial web servers for embedded applications,
	such as printers, routers, furnaces, etc., advertised for in
	the electronic products and design magazines.  They were
	priced in volume in approximately to sub 1 US$ range.

> Why do you insist that the web is the primary form? Actually, I think
> the figures still dictate that e-mail is the most popular use of the
> net, and I strongly suspect that if accurate figures were dictated
> that "on-line gaming" as a whole probably generates lots more
> bandwidth than web surfing (but I can't back that up, just a hunch).

	[snip]

	The volume of data transfer via web servers has far
	surmounted the sendmail et al. volume even considering
	the spammers' volume.  This has been so for at least a year.


Randolph J. Herber, herber@dcdrjh.fnal.gov, +1 630 840 2966, CD/CDFTF PK-149F,
Mail Stop 318, Fermilab, Kirk & Pine Rds., PO Box 500, Batavia, IL 60510-0500,
USA.  (Speaking for myself and not for US, US DOE, FNAL nor URA.)  (Product,
trade, or service marks herein belong to their respective owners.)

------------------------------

From: Fred Atkinson <fatkinson@loralorion.com>
Subject: Re: Last Laugh? Some People Don't Think it Was Funny 
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:05:06 -0400


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Maybe so, but in that case, who did
> put the virus on the CD Rom? 

	Years ago, a vendor (whose name I won't mention here) sent us
(when I was at a former employer) some software for us to use to
control the network we were operating.  They were a *very* reputable
company with whom we had been doing business with for years.

	When we first attempted to install it, our LAN's virus
protection sounded off and squawked that there was a virus on the
diskette.

	Fortunately, I had purchased a copy of McAfee for my office
computer.  They gave the diskette to me and I promptly disinfected it.
It worked fine from that moment on.  We notified that company and they
were absolutely horrified to discover that this had happened on a
software package that they had sent us.

	Viruses get from machine to machine in different ways.  They
do it through macros in software, diskettes, and other media.

	I'm inclined to believe that if those hackers had really
wanted to be harmful, they'd have written a new virus for which none
of the anti-virus vendors have yet got any protection, rather than a
new one.  It was probably laying dormant on one of the machines that
produced the CD-ROM and was added without anyone's prior knowledge.

	I have been aware of a number of incidents in which someone
sent a file over email that infected the PCs of those who were the
recipients of the message.  Never did it seem to be intentionally
done.

	Pat, I'd suggest that until evidence to the contrary is
produced that you give them the benefit of the doubt.


Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:51:37 -0700
From: Cortland Richmond <crichmon@telecom-digest.org>
Organization: TELECOM Digest
Subject: Re: Last Laugh? Some People Don't Think it Was Funny


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Maybe so, but in that case, who did
> put the virus on the CD Rom? I think it had to be an inside job ...

I have seen a hard drive master get infected when a vendor CD was used
on the system connected to create it.  If checks are not in place to
find a virus at that stage -- why scan it, we know where it all came
from, right? (WRONG) -- a virus could easily be distributed with the
in2stalled software on brand new computers. Easily.


Cortland

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #232
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Tue Jul 20 04:22:22 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA21974;
	Tue, 20 Jul 1999 04:22:22 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 04:22:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907200822.EAA21974@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #233

TELECOM Digest     Tue, 20 Jul 99 04:22:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 233

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Book Review: "Residential Broadband", Kim Maxwell (Rob Slade)
    "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea (Lauren Weinstein)
    No PIC Selection Question (Evan L. Hill)
    Re: DSL and Cable Modems (John McHarry)
    Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free Numbers? (Reed)
    Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free Numbers? (John Viergutz)
    Re: Split For 760 Area Code in California (Jason Lindquist)
    Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple (Tony Pelliccio)
    Re: BellSouth MemoryCall Fails (Tony Pelliccio)
    Re: Canada Phone Lines Nearly Fixed After Fire (Tony Pelliccio)
    Re: Telecom Term Paper (Tony Pelliccio)
    Re: Interface Standard Set(s) to Wireless Telephone (Ron Young)
    Northern Telecom Cards For Sale (Bernie)
    Monophone (AE Model 40) Wiring Diagram Needed (Keelan Lightfoot)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rob Slade <rslade@sprint.ca>
Organization: Vancouver Institute for Research into User
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:53:17 -0800
Subject: Book Review: "Residential Broadband", Kim Maxwell
Reply-To: rslade@sprint.ca


BKRSDBBN.RVW   990507

"Residential Broadband", Kim Maxwell, 1999, 0-471-25165-8,
U$39.99/C$62.50
%A   Kim Maxwell
%C   5353 Dundas Street West, 4th Floor, Etobicoke, ON   M9B 6H8
%D   1999
%G   0-471-25165-8
%I   John Wiley & Sons, Inc.
%O   U$39.99/C$62.50 416-236-4433 fax: 416-236-4448 rlangloi@wiley.com
%P   390 p.
%T   "Residential Broadband: An Insider's Guide to the Battle for the
       Last Mile"

Having gone through the process myself, I can fully sympathize with
Maxwell's agonizing over the publisher's choice of a title.  And this
is no idle complaint: Maxwell uses it to fulfill the general purpose
of the preface, that is, specifying the topic to be addressed and the
audience for whom it is intended.  The book covers high speed
communication to the masses, and deals not merely with technical
minutiae, but also with applications and use.  Maxwell also promises
to look beyond current technologies to the extreme long range of
prognostication.  Thus, while the book is technical in part, it is
aimed at the broader market of those who want to know what to expect,
and to choose which avenue to pursue.

Section one reviews the factors that will drive the demand for
broadband access.  Chapter one uses the dread phrase "Information
Superhighway," but takes a realistic look at the facts behind the
fantasy.  The discussion of bandwidth, in chapter two, does not make
comparisons easy but it does give good figures for a wide variety of
media types.

Section two looks at networks.  Chapter three gives us a fascinating
history (going back to the Greeks) and the useful basic concepts of
networking.  Competing protocols are examined and explained simply but
accurately in chapter four, primarily concentrating on ATM
(Asynchronous Transfer Mode) and IP (Internet Protocol).  A number of
Internet myths that catch even those who consider themselves
technically with it are dispelled in chapter five.  Oddly, though, for
all that he chides the traditional network providers for technical
timidity, Maxwell does not seem to realize the potential that
increased processing power holds for "amateur" networks, such as
variations on packet radio and Usenet.

Section three talks about access, both within the home (or premises)
and to it.  Chapter six describes the characteristics of the existing
networks that are available to most homes.  Ten gigabits per second
should be enough for anyone, says chapter seven.  (I simply don't
believe this.  I can see, now, the fad for full frame, picture window
sized, 1200 dots per inch, full motion video windows looking out on
Tahitian beaches or Swiss ski resorts, requiring a hundred gigabits
per second.  Stupid, perhaps, but pet rocks got sold ...)  The various
contending technologies capable of delivering broadband levels of
access to residences are reviewed in chapter eight.  Chapter nine is a
really wonderful explanation of modem technologies: technical, yes,
but clear enough for anyone of reasonable intelligence.  Similarly, a
terrific description of ADSL (Asynchronous Digital Subscriber Line),
including the physical properties of phone lines, is given in chapter
ten, while cable modems are covered in eleven.

Section four looks at the market, by application.  Chapter twelve
situates us in the current market.  Applications for professionals and
home based business are listed in chapter thirteen.  Entertainment is
discussed in chapter fourteen, but, again, the analysis is a bit
timid, disregarding animated MUDs (Multiple User Domains) and other
graphical collaborations.  Chapter fifteen deals with consumer
applications, including, somewhat oddly, education.  The complex
interaction of supply of bandwidth and applications and demand for
those applications is examined in chapter sixteen.  The book ends in
chapter seventeen with projected figures for growth in various areas.

Maxwell also provides a lot of humour on the way through.  In one
example, the tired phrase about having enough time to make a cup of
coffee is expanded to a truly ludicrous extent, but one that the makes
the point very effectively.  (And is pretty much bang on for timing.)

I have not yet found any other book that is as clear and realistic in
giving the average non-specialist reader an understanding of the
issues of providing and using high-speed networks.  This work is
solidly based, reliable, readable, and even entertaining.  Internet
clubs, community networks, interested hobbyists, and
telecommunications managers should all consider it required reading.


copyright Robert M. Slade, 1999   BKRSDBBN.RVW   990507

======================  (quote inserted randomly by Pegasus Mailer)
rslade@vcn.bc.ca  rslade@sprint.ca  slade@victoria.tc.ca p1@canada.com
 Book columns:   http://victoria.tc.ca/techrev/mnbkc.htm
http://victoria.tc.ca/techrev    or    http://sun.soci.niu.edu/~rslade

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 99 20:34 PDT
From: lauren@vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea


Greetings.  Bright Light Technologies (http://www.brightlight.com),
which sports an impressive list of technology partners and investors, 
has introduced a "free" service to end users (previously they have
apparently mainly worked with ISPs) that attempts to filter out most
unsolicited e-mail (SPAM) before it reaches the user.  They do this
by trying to detect spam flowing around the net and then applying
filtering rules.  Rejected messages are pushed aside and can be
viewed later if the user wishes, and lists of rejected messages
are made available.

I'm a long time spam-fighter myself -- I maintain a public spam
blocking list at http://www.vortex.com.  I'm more than willing to
declare the concept of trying to filter out spam (so long as there
aren't too many false positives) to be a good one.  Unfortunately, the
method chosen by Bright Light for end users' use is a potentially
major invasion of privacy -- ironic in light of Bright Light's written
statements that they want to "avoid the appearance of violating email
privacy" (exact quote).

The problem doesn't take a masters degree in Internet engineering to
understand.  To use their service, you have to route ALL of your
inbound e-mail through Bright Light servers.  Your POP account
accesses Bright Light, then they login to your ISP to pick up your
mail.  It passes through Bright Light, and then to you.

 From both a Privacy and Risks standpoint, it's hard to imagine a
system more primed for potential trouble.  Bright Light's talk of
highly scalable systems notwithstanding, ANY centralization of e-mail
handling systems in this manner, funneling in e-mail from numerous
ISPs, represents an immense target for all manner of mischief--even
more attractive to problems than the largest individual ISPs.  Systems
failures and overloading can still happen.  Hackers can target the
facilities.  And of course, the concentration of e-mail traffic could
make Bright Light the recipient of choice for legal actions, by those
seeking to track or access e-mail messages for any number of purposes
(an increasingly popular legal maneuver, as you probably know).  The
requirement to provide such information could occur regardless of how
little (or how much) of users' e-mail is "normally" stored on disk at
the service (as opposed to passing through) in the course of routine
operations.

If the spam filtering rules were only sent directly to the users'
"real" ISPs and the spam blocking applied at that level, the red flags
wouldn't be flying up this way.  The fundamental problem is having the
full text of users' total incoming e-mail passing through a
centralized third party e-mail service outside of the users' direct
control or affiliation.

This isn't rocket science -- it should be obvious that this sort of
centralization of actual e-mail traffic flow is exactly the *wrong*
direction to be moving in.  I'd recommend thinking long and hard
before participating, as an end user, in any third party service that
asks you to route all of your incoming e-mail through them.  Even with
the best of intentions (and I assume these on the part of Bright
Light), and even with a "free" service, the price is much too high.

My RealAudio "Vortex Daily Reality Report & Unreality Trivia Quiz" for
today (see below for URL to the archive of segments) is devoted to
this topic.  Take care, all.


 --Lauren--
Lauren Weinstein
lauren@vortex.com
Moderator, PRIVACY Forum --- http://www.vortex.com
Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy
Host, "Vortex Daily Reality Report & Unreality Trivia Quiz"
  --- http://www.vortex.com/reality

------------------------------

From: Evan L. Hill <evanh@primenet.com>
Subject: No PIC Selection Question
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:36:50 -0500
Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc.


What restrictions are placed on a line where no Long Distance Carrier
has been selected?

Are 1+800 and 1+888 calls allowed?

My long distance carrier now charges $3.00 per month.  I normally do
not make over $15.00 worth of calls per YEAR.

I'm tired of hearing about everyone's 'calling plan' to save money.
How about the 'Zero Calls-Zero Dollars' calling plan?

I was thinking of either changing carriers, or dropping it altogether
and using pre-paid calling cards (if this is even possible).

Call me tight, but I think that $3.00 a month is a little steep for a
mere entry in a database.  Credit card companies and other junk
mailers seem to have no problem keeping my name in their database, so
why should long distance companies?

------------------------------

From: mcharry@erols.com (John McHarry)
Subject: Re: DSL and Cable Modems
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:18:41 GMT


On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 06:55:20 -0600, Msgt Paul Berens <Paul.Berens@
spacecom.af.mil> wrote:

> The technical discussions of which technology, XDSL or Cable Modems,
> will carry the most bits is interesting, but follow the money.  The
> consumer wants one bill ( and the concomitant savings this should
> produce due to lowered overhead) for his telephone, his ISP, and his
> television/movies.  XDSL isn't going to carry "content" such as
> television, right?  As long as that's true, seems to me we should bet
> on the cable providers.  They can provide everything XDSL can provide
> -- plus content.

I think this "one bill" thing is overrated.  What I want, and what
companies look for, is the lowest total cost.  About the only problem
with unbundled bills is the cost of having to pay each one.  With the
advances in electronic invoicing and payment, this is fast
disappearing.  If somebody can offer a lower total cost in a bundle,
count me in, but I won't pay extra for the bundle.

On the other hand, there is a market for inflated bundles for those
who don't understand the components.  Perhaps this is the segment the
"one bill" advocates are after.

------------------------------

From: Reed <reedh@rmi.net>
Subject: Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free Numbers?
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:35:47 -0600
Organization: None whatsoever


In Denver, I just tried an 800 number without 1, got "sorry, you must
first dial a 1, etc" message ...

It would appear that 1+ is getting to mean long-distance vs local, not
necessarily toll vs non-toll. Two different issues ...  Remember, some
areas have *local toll* calling.


reed

Bob Goudreau wrote:

> How about it, readers who live in Maryland, Atlanta, Denver, Dallas,
> etc.:  can you dial toll free numbers using just 10D, or does only
> the 1+10D format work?

------------------------------

From: John Viergutz <John@c-c-g.com>
Subject: Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free Numbers?
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:36:50 -0400


I'm in MD (301), and when I dial the 8XX numbers without the 1 Prefix,
I get the LEC (Bell Atlantic) recording "You must first dial a zero or
one to complete your call"


John Viergutz
Director, ISP CLEC Services
Competitive Communications Group
Riverdale, MD 20737
301.209.0268 (ofc)
301.699.5300 (main)
301.699.5080 (FAX)
john@c-c-g.com
http://www.c-c-g.com

Y O U R  T U R N-K E Y  C L E C  O N E-S T O P  S O U R C E

------------------------------

From: linky@see.figure1.net (Jason Lindquist)
Subject: Re: Split For 760 Area Code in California
Date: 19 Jul 1999 21:28:33 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Reply-To: linky@see.figure1.net (Jason Lindquist)


John_David_Galt@acm.org (John David Galt) writes (pseudonymously?):

> I say, split off the San Diego suburbs where all the growth is
> occurring, and let them be the ones to change for once.

Outlying San Diego County *did* change, when 619 split two and a half
years ago.


Jason Lindquist  <*>     "Mostly though, I think it gave us hope, 
linky@see.figure1.net     That there can always be a new beginning.
KB9LCL                    Even for people like us."
                            -- Gen. Susan Ivanova, B5, "Sleeping In Light"

------------------------------

From: nospam.tonypo1@nospam.home.com (Tony Pelliccio)
Subject: Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple
Organization: Providence Network Partners
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:43:40 GMT


In article <telecom19.228.11@telecom-digest.org>, tls@panix.com says:

> One they've had for _months_ from other non-monopoly providers.  Bell
> Atlantic is the last one to arrive at the party on this one.  No doubt
> they'll use their massive monopoly free marketing powers to establish
> some market share nonetheless (see below).

No doubt -- here in Rhode Island DSL has been available for at least a 
year. How do I know? The Ocean State Free-Net is using a DSL line to a 
remote test site. The actual cost of this line is something like $400 a 
month for 384K service - not a bargain when you consider I'm getting a 
416K DSL line for $259 a month and they'll throw in the router. 

I nearly fell over when I got a promotional mailing from Bell Atlantic 
touting their ATM services. For only $284 a month I can get a 56KB line -- 
whooopie! Is there any other reason that soon, all my links to Bell 
Atlantic for my Providence office will be gone? 

We recently disconnected three off premises extensions to our PBX when
the cost for these little beasts went from $20 a month to $90 a
month. If Bell continues on this path they're bound for disaster. Of
course Brooks has good pricing for local service -- where
WorldCom/UUNET is outrageous because they're tier one provider. I told
the rep I didn't care if they provided to God, their prices were way
out of line.


== Tony Pelliccio, KD1S formerly KD1NR
== Trustee WE1RD

------------------------------

From: nospam.tonypo1@nospam.home.com (Tony Pelliccio)
Subject: Re: BellSouth MemoryCall Fails
Organization: Providence Network Partners
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:45:11 GMT


In article <telecom19.228.10@telecom-digest.org>,  dave48@burtonsys.
com.nospam says:

> John Warne wrote:

>> The following is based on the assumption BellSouth is using an Octal VM
>> platform in your area, and relates information I gleaned from multiple
>> discussions with BellSouth:

> I think they are using a Nortel DMS-100.  I don't know what an "Octal
> VM" is.  Is it just another brand and model of switch?

It's Octel. And it's a decent voicemail system -- just prone to crashes 
now and then. 


== Tony Pelliccio, KD1S formerly KD1NR
== Trustee WE1RD

------------------------------

From: nospam.tonypo1@nospam.home.com (Tony Pelliccio)
Subject: Re: Canada Phone Lines Nearly Fixed After Fire
Organization: Providence Network Partners
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:46:52 GMT


In article <telecom19.228.2@telecom-digest.org>, monty@roscom.com says:

> TORONTO (Reuters) - Communications across Canada were almost back to 
> normal late Friday afternoon after an early morning explosion and 
> three-alarm fire at a Bell Canada phone service center in Toronto caused 
> widespread disruption. 

> The outage affected a large number of services, including telephone 
> lines, cell phones, bank machines and Internet lines for most of the 
> day. 

> http://news.lycos.com/stories/Technology/19990718RTTECH-CANADA-OUTAGE.asp  

I wonder how much Bell Canada had to pay to have a new DMS switch trucked 
in, and then wired in. Not to mention all the other facilities they have 
to replace in order to get all the services running. 


== Tony Pelliccio, KD1S formerly KD1NR
== Trustee WE1RD

------------------------------

From: nospam.tonypo1@nospam.home.com (Tony Pelliccio)
Subject: Re: Telecom Term Paper
Organization: Providence Network Partners
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:51:04 GMT


In article <telecom19.227.7@telecom-digest.org>, bwdavey@yahoo.com says:

>      My name is Brad, and I am a grad student at SMU in telecomm-
> unications.  I am working on a term paper now, and I need some help.
> My topic is the leasing of Local Exchange Carriers lines -- how it
> works, will competition work, etc.  Are there any books or articles
> you can think of to help me?

As an example, check out http://www.ripuc.org

They've got the interconnection agreements that Bell Atlantic has signed 
with other carriers. 


== Tony Pelliccio, KD1S formerly KD1NR
== Trustee WE1RD

------------------------------

From: Ron Young <ronyoung@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Interface Standard Set(s) to Wireless Telephone
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:59:35 -0700
Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc.


If you mean you want to use standard telephone sets to send and
recieve calls over a cellular network, then see the PhoneCell devices
from Telular.

   http://www.telular.com/prod/prod003.htm

-ron-

D. Snow wrote:

> Does anyone make an interface which will integrate a wireless
> telephone with one or more standard telephone sets?

> The unit would need to provide current, dialtone and ring to the sets
> and control the wireless phone for number entry, send and end
> functions.

------------------------------

From: Bernie <bwalery@bsmrpop1.bsmr.uswest.net>
Reply-To: bwalery@uswest.net
Subject: Northern Telecom Cards For Sale
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:56:50 -0500
Organization: U S WEST Interprise


I have some NOrthern Telecom cards for sale. Some from Meridian and
some Option 11.

Not really familiar with the stuff but I need to sell it to make some
room.

For example I have:

(5)  NTBK45AC     System Core Pack Cards
(2)  NTND09CA    12 MB Memory Cards
(2)  NTND09BA     6 MB Memory Cards
(1)  NTAK12BB     Expansion Cabinet Option 11
(2)  NT6D39AA     CPU Network Shelf

Please let me know if interested and I will send you a list and you
can feel free to make me an offer.


Thanks,

Bernie
bwalery@uswest.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:56:33 -0700
Subject: Monophone (AE Model 40) Wiring Diagram Needed
From: Keelan Lightfoot <keelan@mail.bzzzzzz.com>


I am looking for the wiring diagram to the Atuomatic Electric Model 80
telephone (Monophone). I have 50% of the wiring diagram (half of the
sticker is stuck to bottom of telephone.)

I found this telephone with a few of it's wires disconnected, and have
no idea where they go. It would appear that everything is in working
condition, so this will make a nice addition to my collection.

Any help appreciated,


Keelan Lightfoot

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #233
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Tue Jul 20 05:10:05 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA23596;
	Tue, 20 Jul 1999 05:10:05 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 05:10:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907200910.FAA23596@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #234

TELECOM Digest     Tue, 20 Jul 99 05:10:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 234

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: www. Prefixes (Derek J. Balling)
    Re: Century 21 (Don Seeley)
    Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple (Roy Smith)
    Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers? (Adam H. Kerman)
    Re: BellSouth MemoryCall Fails (David A. Burton)
    Re: DSL and Cable Modems (Steven J. Sobol)
    Re: Your Weird "Wrong Number" Problem (Bill Levant)
    Re: V-H Coordinates Information Needed (Jerry Harder)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:09:26 -0700
From: Derek J. Balling <dredd@megacity.org>
Subject: Re: www. prefixes


>>   ; HTTP - server is the main server, new-fast-box is the backup
>>   ; (On new-fast-box, the HTTP daemon runs on port 8000)

>> http.tcp      SRV 0 0 80 server.asdf.com.
>>               SRV 10 0 8000 new-fast-box.asdf.com.

>> ; since we want to support both http://asdf.com/ and
>> ; http://www.asdf.com/ we need the next two RRs as well

> Wow.  Even the RFC written back in 1996 suggests that the root name
> should be given to http.

Where are you seeing that? No, it is saying that if someone is using
an RFC2052-compliant browser, they can do a lookup for service
"TCP/http" for the root domain and they will be told "go to
server.asdf.com on port 80 for your page".

In the example given, the root domain can (and is in the example)
unassigned to a specific IP address.

In the example given, if they were NOT using an RFC2052 compliant
browser access the root-domain would fail unless a "backup" A record
existed for the root domain.

Keep in mind here, lest we argue at cross-purposes. *grin* I am not
against someone, if they want to, burning their root domain on a web
server. I am merely indicating that this decision may not be the best
forward-thinking decision, ESPECIALLY when alternatives exist which
allow the user to get the same experience, and for it to be achieved
in a graceful manner.

> Three years later and it still hasn't been widely accepted.  I wonder
> how many admins have DNS files filled with experimental stuff?  It
> makes sense to keep the files down to the required data.

Why? I mean, seriously, are you so strapped for space on your external
DNS server that you can't spare the extra hundred or so bytes to
implement it?  Does sending that update to your secondary NS REALLY
cost you so much that it will break you?

>> But all in all, this IS the answer to which you seek, all that needs to
>> have happen is for (a) implementation at the browser level, and (b) DNS
>> admins to implement it.

> B is pointless unless (a) is widely done.

Double-edged sword. It doesn't matter how many browsers implement it if 
nobody's DNS is configured. The two are mutually and equally important for 
it to work.

>> Ack! you've obviously never purchased memory from Cisco before. :)
>> Fill your router's memory with a large BGP table and tell me how much
>> more room you have left to route a whole bunch of separate port
>> routings for the web farm (of hundreds of IP's) that you may have
>> behind the router.

> It is an option.  Similar to RFC 2052, except with local routing one
> does not need to rely on others to implement a lesser known feature.

It is an option "on paper". In the real world where routers have finite 
resources, it is not a viable option.

>> C'est la vie. The core of the problem is that people want the "small
>> intimate internet" they remember. Pandora cracked the lid on that box
>> a long time ago and it won't be coming back any time soon.

> The problem is with people with no memories at all.  The newbies who
> just want information or stuff.  If they get errors at your site then
> they will go elsewhere.  You may say "good riddence" but your site
> loses traffic.

First, it depends a great deal on the site. PERSONALLY, I could give a
pair of fetid dingo's kidneys if someone visits my site. If they're
too inane to see the "www." at the beginning of the URL, what do I
care if they don't get to see pictures of me and a copy of my resume? :)

Now, if you're a "mission critical site", sure you suck it up and deal
and you CNAME your root domain to your web server, or add an A record,
or however you want to handle it. BUT -- and this is the point I've
been making all along -- that's not the best "forward thinking" method
to do things. RFC2052-like solutions ARE forward-thinking
solutions. They allow for this generation (albeit probably too late to
stem the tide) but also for future generations of communication.

> Until then we can have the root named machines handle http.
> I came from a school of programming where the programmer had to
> anticipate the errors of the user and the program must 1) not crash on
> bad data and 2) use bad data to the best of its ability.  Browsers
> have embraced this school of thought.  Just look at all the garbage
> one can type in the GO TO line and still get a site!  A far cry from
> Lynx where (last time I checked) one still had to type http:// .

Funny, my CS professors ingrained into ME the concept of GIGO, Garbage
In Garbage Out ... if you got bad data, you'd end up giving out bad
data. In fact, I can't think of a CompSci professor who DIDN'T mention
it at some point in time.

>> Agreed. Which is why I like the neat RFC I mentioned above. It
>> addresses both issues - forward compatibility (which makes the current
>> "www."  necessary), as well as the "simplicity" approach you and Pat
>> favor. As soon as browser vendors implement RFC2052, that problem goes
>> away.

> Are you waiting for Hell, Michigan to freeze over?  That happens every
> year.  Seeing RFC 2052 implemented even on the server side won't
> happen that soon.  Allowing the root name to go to http is a fix that
> is used successfully NOW and was being used before 1996 when RFC 2052
> was published.

> I would love it if the browser builders would implement HTML properly.
> They have enough problems without experimental RFCs.

*sigh* That ain't no lie. Thankfully Mozilla is doing a much better job 
with HTML than anything so far. Maybe it'll convince MS to join the club. 
(Hope, Pray)

>> Actually, I think those would break on Mozilla (because the "user@
>> domain" syntax in a URL is technically "broken" from a standards-
>> compliance perspective), since part of the benefits of Mozilla was
>> that it was going to enforce standards ... I don't know if that's the
>> case or not though.

> It works on Mo.  I have yet to be able to use it on the server side.
> Personally I'd like to have urls like http://jones@tk.com/ and
> http://smith@tk.com/ instead of the /~jones variety.  The user@host
> syntax does work for FTP on Mozilla.

It works because the browsers have implemented it as authentication
instead of pathing. (e.g. you might log into a company intranet using
http://user:password@intranet.company.com/ )

But it still violates several ESTABLISHED RFC's ... I sincerely wish
that Mozilla would break that hack.

>> Then that "new breed" must also come to grips with the fact that there
>> is a learning curve they must adhere to. Before cars first became
>> popular, only a few people learned to drive, and they learned in
>> intricate detail how to do it safely (or they tried anyway). When cars
>> became popular, to use your thinking, all the rules of the road would
>> have been simplified, to make way for the "lowest common denominator".

> Tell you what.  Your company can have the business from the 10%'rs who
> understand all this http/html/www/??? stuff and I'll take the lusers
> who have money to burn.  Deal?  (Actually my site is non commercial,
> so I don't make money -- but I'd rather have people find my site useful
> than go to someone elses.)

Hehehe ... actually my company PROBABLY refers people to your site ... ;-) 
But that's not the point really.

The 90%'ers only get to the places because the world is catering to them. 
Instead of bringing them up to a level where they can communicate 
intelligently, we're "dumbing down the net" and making it into one big 
AOL-like hell. (IMHO)

>> Instead, the government realized that they needed to adhere to
>> standards, and the drivers were required to learn a little about how
>> to drive safely, and pass a test before they could actually go out on
>> the road.

> Think about it this way:  The first cars required a deeper knowledge
> of the vehicle itself to get it to go.  All the button pushing and
> cranking -- plus roadside repairs on many trips.  The modern vehicle
> takes care of all that for you.  Put in gas.  Turn key.  Go.
> By comparison any idiot and his grandma could drive a modern car (and
> do by what I've seen on the roads).  The first cars could only be
> driven by those with the knowledge to keep it running.

So why then, using your logic, do I still have to go in and take a
drivers test and get a license?

>> But you do that (RFC2052 excepted) at the expense of a root address
>> which you may find VERY valuable down the road.

> When I need that address I'll reclaim it.  I don't mind the editing.
> Besides -- if RFC 2052 takes off then I can just point the http traffic
> away -- and STILL have an easy to remember and type URL.

Important lesson: Once you ACCEPT a URL, you're stuck with it forever.
That's the problem. Where I work we actually have a database of old
URL's that need to be redirected to new ones. If you accept the URL of
the root domain now, you will NEVER be able to get it out of peoples'
bookmarks. If you never allowed it to get there in the first place,
you're fine. :)

>> Actually, you ARE aware that the "order of operations" should be (for
>> the example above):

>> First Choice: the MX record for whatever.tk.com (if it exists)
>> Second Choice: the MX record for tk.com (if it exists)
>> Third Choice: direct delivery to whatever.tk.com
>> Fourth Choice: bounce mail to sender as undeliverable

> Then one of my ISPs is broken because it is skipping choice two (and
> possibly choice one).

I stand corrected. After I said something I started doubting my own
thoughts and went back and reread RFC974. RFC974 doesn't say anything
about the MX records being "heirarchical" in nature. I guess I've
always just out of force of habit filled my zonefiles with MX records
and never had to think about what would happen if they weren't
there. :)

>> But I think we're just about surpassing the "relevant to telecom"
>> ratio on this thread so maybe we should kill it now ... we know the
>> solution (RFC2052) and all it takes is for vendors to implement it. :)

> Ahh, but telecom is so many things!  Let us know when the experimental
> RFC2052 is in all browsers (including Lynx) and on the majority of
> domains.  Until then I'll burn my root machine name any way I want.

Nobody's telling you that you can't. :) I'm just saying that UNTIL we
have a firm, accepted alternative, we should NOT encourage people to
type in URL's minus the "www."

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: ...
> Just as I do not like the use of 'www' on the front of the name, I
> really do not care for 'index.html' on the end of it either,
> especially since if 'index.html' is present in a directory, the user
> will be sent there automatically.

That actually can be eliminated in one of two ways:

1.) Telling the web server that the DirectoryIndex is index.html
2.) Simply removing the index.html from the URL

Many configurations do not use index.html as the "default" page though. A 
user who subscribes to the "unix way" (unlimited characters in file names) 
who puts his page on an ISP's IIS server may find that the IIS server is 
configured to look for INDEX.HTM ... and since his file is named 
index.html, he has to specify it in the URL to get the page visible.

> Another good thing about using an alias like 'telecom-digest.org' is
> that in the event I was asked to move to some other site -- if LCS/MIT
> no longer wanted me at the site or needed the resources to use for
> something else, it would be a simple matter to place the archives
> directory elsewhere and have the alias point at that instead.   PAT]

But as far as this discussion goes, that would work equally well for
"www.telecom-digest.org".

------------------------------

From: Don Seeley <dschi@nospam-enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Century 21
Date: 20 Jul 1999 03:02:54 GMT
Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server


Bob Goudreau <goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com> wrote:

> --- snip -- snip --- *
> Well, no, because the era since the arbitrary epoch point began when
> 31 December 1 BC ticked over into 1 January AD 1, meaning that 1
> January AD 2000 will mark only the 1999th anniversary of that event.
> --- snip -- snip --- *

* Edited out lots of more-of-the-same pointlessness re: the
"millenium"

WHOO-WHOO! Here comes the cluetrain! 

Do you celebrate when your odometer reaches 100,001 miles? It's not
about when JC was or wasn't born. It's celebrating rolling over the
19xx digits. Just mentally translate "Millenium" into "Y2K", get some
much needed rest and have yourself a good time on New Years Eve!


               Don Seeley
             Daring Designs
     Typography - Graphics - Layout
  http://www.daringdesigns.com/~dschi/
        dschi@daringdesigns.com

[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Don, let me save everyone the trouble
of answering you. What they are going to tell you is that the odometer
on your car starts at zero, therefore you do not have to claim that
extra mile at the other end to make it an 'official' hundred thousand
miles. Calendars and years on the other hand do not start with zero
so we have that 'little problem' at the end of only having 99 of
whatever.  PAT]

------------------------------

From: roy@endeavor.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Subject: Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple
Organization: New York University School of Medicine
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:38:06 -0400


tls@rek.tjls.com wrote:

> Have you tried other DSL providers?  They can typically deliver DSL
> service to everywhere Bell Atlantic can, and some places where they
> can't.

If BA owns the local loops, how can other providers get me service?
If there's other ones to try, I'd love to hear about them.  Nothing
would make me happier than dumping BA.

------------------------------

From: Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.chinet.com>
Subject: Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers?
Organization: Chinet - Public Access since 1982
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 03:41:59 GMT


Andrew Emmerson <midshires@cix.co.uk> wrote:

> ahk@chinet.chinet.com (Adam H. Kerman) wrote:

>> The law doesn't protect our natural rights. It tends to take them away
>> from many and give privileges to the few. The law didn't create the
>> radio spectrum; it's a natural phenomenon that should be available for
>> the benefit of all, not for the exclusive use of a few.

>Sorry but this is absolute drivel.

If you want to be a member of my fan club, get the application from
Linc Madison; he's the president.

> You have no natural right to intercept other people's private
> communications. Are you saying that I have a natural right to peep in
> your mailbox, read the newspapers that have been delivered to you and
> also open your mail, just because your mailbox does not have a padlock
> on it? No, of course not.

As in of course I didn't say any of that.

> Your so-called privileges awarded to the few have been assigned to
> people (corporations) that have invested significant money to provide
> a service that other people are happy to pay to use.

The trouble is that those corporations didn't pay for the exclusive
right to use a portion of the radio spectrum at value. The license is
not the value of those rights.

> The radio spectrum is indeed a natural phenomenon, just like land.

At least you admit to understanding the fundamental principal. Now
think real hard and see if you can understand why you don't have the
right to open my mail or steal my newspaper.

> But that doesn't give me the right to build a garage in your front garden
> just because I feel like doing so.

Lovely. I never said I don't have the right to exclusive use of a
parcel of land, as long as I paid for it and repay society for the
value bestowed on the parcel that I didn't create. (Land has value due
to location. A location has value due to infrastructure, natural
features, and what has generally been built in the area. What I do
with my own land doesn't raise the value of the specific parcel but
contributes to the value of the general area.)

> Land (and radio spectrum) are apportioned according to a set of
> rules designed for harmonious living and co-operation.

Hardly. More like first come, first served. There was no apportionment
based on need, population, value, ability to pay, or any objective
criterion.

> If you don't want play by those rules, then you are not a member of society
> and cannot expect society to protect what you consider _your_ rights.

There is a distinction between the rules and what my rights are.
Society did not create my rights.

------------------------------

From: David A. Burton <dave48@burtonsys.com.nospam>
Subject: Re: BellSouth MemoryCall Fails
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 02:26:18 -0500
Organization: Burton Systems Software


John Warne wrote:
 
> David A. Burton wrote:

>> I think they are using a Nortel DMS-100.  I don't know what an "Octal
>> VM" is.  Is it just another brand and model of switch?

> An Octal VoiceMail platform ("box") is produced by a third-party
> company, and can be used with any number of different type Central
> Office switches.  BellSouth seems to like the Octal line of VM units,
> and, until a few years ago, the DMS-100.

Okay, I've found enough info on a bellsouth.com site 
http://www.interconnection.bellsouth.com/guides/msg_ip/indexf.htm 
to determine that my BellSouth voicemail service is provided on a
BTI voicemail box rather than an Octel (with an "e") voicemail box.

There're *lots* of companies with the initials BTI.  Does anyone
know what BTI stands for?


Dave

------------------------------

From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steven J. Sobol)
Subject: Re: DSL and Cable Modems
Date: 20 Jul 1999 01:51:34 GMT
Organization: North Shore Technologies Corp. 888.480.4NET


On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 06:55:20 -0600, Paul.Berens@spacecom.af.mil
allegedly said:

> consumer wants one bill ( and the concomitant savings this should
> produce due to lowered overhead) for his telephone, his ISP, and his
> television/movies.  XDSL isn't going to carry "content" such as
> television, right?  As long as that's true, seems to me we should bet
> on the cable providers.  They can provide everything XDSL can provide
> -- plus content.

I suppose if having one bill is important to you, maybe that's true.

But I subscribe to DirecTV through my cable company, and I have a POTS
line and an ISDN line through Ameritech. That's three bills -- four if
I decide to get the premium movie channels because they're offered
separately through US Satellite Broadcasting, and USSB sends its own
invoice.

That's fine with me. ISDN is offered by the phone company and is, at
least for now, the solution with the best bang-for-the-buck where
bandwidth is concerned (no cable modems in this part of town yet). I
don't mind that it's not even on the same bill as my POTS charges.

IOW, I care more about bandwidth than convenient billing options. I
suspect I'm not the only person that doesn't mind not having one bill.


North Shore Technologies Corporation http://www.NorthShoreTechnologies.net
We don't just build websites; we build relationships!
815 Superior Ave. #610, Cleveland, OH 44114-2702 216.619.2NET 888.480.4NET
Host of the Forum for Responsible & Ethical E-mail http://www.spamfree.org

------------------------------

From: Wlevant@aol.com (Bill Levant)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:31:33 EDT
Subject: Re: Your Weird "Wrong Number" Problem


In a message dated 99-07-08 17:31:51 EDT, was written:

> I'm pretty sure what this is is a trying-to-be-clever FAX machine that
>  recognizes that it got a human voice on the other end of the line
>  rather than CNG tones, and plays its canned "I'm sorry . . ." recording
>  and hangs up.

Is there such an animal?  If so, this is the best suggestion I've heard 
yet.

And, sorry for my tardy replies to all who responded ... I've been on
vacation, and now have *28* (that's right, twenty-eight) TELECOM Digests
to read.

[Note to a certain TELECOM Digest Moderator with too much free time on
his hands -- PAT, maybe you and I should coordinate vacation weeks. :) ]


Bill

------------------------------

From: Jerry Harder <jharder@homespamnein.com>
Subject: Re: V-H Coordinates Information Needed
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:50:51 GMT
Organization: @Home Network


Check out www.tariffs.com, www.ccmi.com, or www.valucom.com among
others.  All the tariff service firms that I know provide this
database and more for a fee.

Good luck,


Jerry Harder
remove spamnein from address to reply

Ronald W. Roberts <rwr@robcom.com> wrote in message news:telecom19.
232.4@telecom-digest.org:

> Where can I get information on the V-H coordinates used to calculate
> distances between two telephone numbers?  What I'm looking for is a
> table of the area codes plus exchanges and the coordinates and how to
> do the calculation.

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #234
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Tue Jul 20 14:21:09 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA12828;
	Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:21:09 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:21:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907201821.OAA12828@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #235

TELECOM Digest     Tue, 20 Jul 99 14:21:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 235

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Thirty Years Ago Tonight (TELECOM Digest Editor)
    Re: SpeechWorks Gives the Web a Voice (Lisa Jacobson)
    Re: Century 21 (Bob Goudreau)
    Re: Century 21 (LARB0)
    Re: Century 21 (Fred R. Goldstein)
    2000 Silliness (Joey Lindstrom)
    Specifics on Romans' "Screw-up" (was Re: Century 21) (Carl Moore)
    Re: The Crisis at Pacifica Radio (Alan Boritz)
    Re: You've Got Mail. You're Being Watched. (Steven J. Sobol)
    Re: Last Laugh! Dead Cow DOA (Alan Boritz)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:09:45 EDT
From: TELECOM Digest Editor <ptownson@telecom-digest.org>
Subject: Thirty Years Ago Tonight


All afternoon on that Sunday thirty years ago, the men sat in their
ship and we kept wondering when are they going to do it ... when are
they going to open the door and walk out? Then finally after
several hours it was announced the walk on the moon itself would
begin. The hatch came open, down the stairs they went, and one
sort of big intense chill went down the spine of everyone watching
it on television, which was almost everyone in the world it seems.

Pardon me if I wax nostalgic today. It has been only twelve years
prior, in 1957 that the high school political science teacher had
told us that with the Soviet Union's successful 'Sputnik' venture
the day before we were likely in for some very hard times in the USA.

Throughout the day and evening today, the various forms of media
are replaying and reprinting the pictures, words and videos of the
occassion. If you were not around to see it the first time, and even
if you were, try to catch as many of the re-plays as you can. My
own humble effort at this, in connection with Don Kimberlin's own
account of the occassion is on line at:

     http://telecom-digest.org/camelot-on-the-moon.html


PAT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:07:06 -0400
From: Lisa Jacobson <ljacobson@schwartz-pr.com>
Subject: Re:  SpeechWorks Gives the Web a Voice


On the 30th Anniversary of the First Moon Landing,
SpeechWorks Defines a New Site  SpeechSite

New Product Offers Easiest Access to Employees, Typical Web Site Data
and E-Commerce Using Speech Recognition Over the Phone

BOSTON, Mass.July 20, 1999 We've all been there. You call a company's
main phone number to be connected to the precise person who can
service your account.  Instead, you get stuck in a dial-by-name
directory or on hold for several minutes. Or, you call a company to
ask for directions from the South and the person you reach can only
give directions from the North.  Worse still, while trying to check on
the status of your ticket order, you get trapped in 'touch-tone
hell' and hang up in frustration without finding out anything.

Today, SpeechWorks International, Inc., the leading provider of
conversational speech recognition technology and solutions for
over-the-telephone applications, introduces SpeechSiteTM, making
today's telephone pain points a thing of the past.  SpeechSite brings
the web model of self-service to the telephone transforming the call
to a business for the first time since Neil Armstrong spoke to the
world from the moon thirty years ago.

Callers Land on a New Site

A revolutionary approach to speech application development, SpeechSite
is the first solution to package auto attendant, information retrieval
and commerce capabilities seamlessly into a single, speech-activated
system.  Through one telephone number, SpeechSite serves as a
friendly, personalized 'welcome mat' to any companygreeting and
routing callers who wish to speak directly to an employee or allowing
them to do business through an easy-to-use, automated process.


It's the age of self-service and e-commerce," said Robert Mirani,
research director, Customer Relationship Management (CRM) Strategies,
Yankee Group.  For both consumer-oriented and business-to-business
applications, the phoneand particularly the cell phoneis the
ubiquitous access device and delivers on the 'anytime, anywhere' claim
of the web. Businesses that begin to extend their e-business
strategies to leverage next generation speech technologies and
applicationsSpeechWorks SpeechSite being a leading examplewill reap
significant benefits.

SpeechSite completely revamps the way companies answer the phone,
giving callers immediate access to information previously available
only through corporate web sites, complex touch-tone menus or a myriad
of different phone numbers. Just like the evolving web model,
SpeechSite also lets callers conduct transactions anytime, from the
convenience of any phone.  SpeechSite's carefully designed
speech-enabled user interface takes into account the way people
understand information they 'hear' on the phone and information they
'see' on the web.  Just as people know what to expect on a corporate
web site, they will soon know what to expect on a SpeechSite as
well.

Here is an example of how it works:

SpeechSite:  Hello, this is the SpeechSite for XYZ Company.  You can say,
'Company', 'Products', 'Directions' or 'Making Contact.'

Caller: 'Directions'.

SpeechSite: 'From which direction will you be coming from?'

Caller: 'The Boston Airport' (The system provides the directions. The
caller can also say 'fax it' to get the directions faxed to them, and then
continue moving through other self-service options, or just hang up.)

SpeechSite brings it all together, said Steve Cossette, vice president
of distribution planning, Continental Airlines. 'We want one platform
that transforms the way we answer all our calls in the same way that
our web site has transformed our screen-based interaction with
customers.  SpeechSite is the product that can do this for us.'

A New Paradigm for Application Development

Not only does SpeechSite present a new customer contact concept, it
also provides a new approach to speech application development. The
SpeechSite product platform includes a variety of customizable,
pre-packaged applications that make it easy for companies to set up
and expand their own SpeechSite. SpeechSite takes the development of
speech-activated services beyond the previous toolkits by offering
horizontal applications such as call routing and product information
retrieval that can be configured without programming to meet
individual company needs.

The SpeechSite product is based on the award-winning SpeechWorks 5.0
product line that includes its highly accurate SMART recognition
engine; industry-leading building blocks, known as DialogModules; and
powerful tools. SpeechWorks core technology and auto attendants are
already handling millions of calls and transactions at companies such
as United Airlines, Hewlett-Packard, FedEx, E*TRADE and Guardian Life
Insurance Company.

Benefits of SpeechSite

With SpeechSite from SpeechWorks, corporations can:

         Make it easy for callers to get information, complete 
         transactions and be connected to employees through one
         phone number;

         Leverage their investments in web sites and back-end databases;

         Deploy a single speech recognition platform for auto attendant and
         customer service capabilities;

         Launch new services more rapidly than ever before by configuring
         pre-packaged applications;

         Create a broader revenue stream by opening the doors to 
         automated commerce every hour of the day;

         Create a customized corporate 'welcome mat' with a unique audio
         personality.

Major Partners Support SpeechSite

SpeechWorks has garnered tremendous support for SpeechSite from over
twenty platform, technology, service and e-business
partners. Companies that have enthusiastically embraced the new
offering, include: Artisoft, Aspect Telecommunications, Automated
Financial Systems, Comverse Network Services, Dialogic Corporation,
digiTRADE (owned by Thomson Financial Services), Gold Systems, Intel
Corporation, InterVoice, LexiTech, Maxxar, MicroLog, NEXTLINK
Interactive, Open Market, Inc., PriceInteractive, Stratus Computer
Systems, Systems Solutions Group, Talk2.com, TALX, Telemanagement,
Vicinity Corporation, VoiceMate.com and WebOnPhone.

What it Takes to Run a SpeechSite

SpeechSite provisioning tools and wizards make it easy to set up a
SpeechSite that leverages existing web-based infrastructure and data.
These tools allow common information to be shared between the
SpeechSite and the corporate web site and allow the SpeechSite
specific data and audio recordings to be easily added.

In the SpeechSite architecture, a speech server a telephony platform
with SpeechWorks speech recognition capabilities will typically run
alongside a web server, both of which sit in front of corporate
databases.  SpeechSite can obtain data directly from the corporate
databases, or can be served via XML from the web server.

Try the SpeechWorks SpeechSite and Learn More

You can access SpeechWorks own SpeechSite by calling 617.428.4444. At the
SpeechSite, you can:

         Ask to be connected to a SpeechWorks employee 
         (Say Leah Lesser in company directory for example, to be
         connected to our Public Relations Manager);

         Hear about our company;

         Get driving directions to our headquarters in Boston;

         Get a fax about what partners and customers are saying 
         about SpeechSite;

         Learn about our products, our job opportunities and recent news.

At any time during the SpeechSite call, you can move around the site
to a new area simply by 'barging in' to the automated prompts. You can
also say things like 'find it,' 'fax it' or 'help' which make the
interaction both familiar and enjoyable.

Demonstrating the parallel of the phone and the web, you can also hear
samples of what is available today and in the future for SpeechSite,
as well as obtain complete product information at
http://www.speechworks.com.  In addition, you can join a live phone
and web-based seminar on Wednesday, July 21st at 1:00 p.m. Eastern
Time to hear Stuart R. Patterson, SpeechWorks CEO, discuss SpeechSite
and the promise it holds for customer self-service over the phone.
You may register for the free seminar at
http://www.speechworks.com/institute/seminars.html.

Pricing and Availability

SpeechSite will be available in Q4 1999 directly through SpeechWorks and
through selected value-added resellers.  Pricing will vary according to
installation size and application requirements but typical configurations
will range in price from $50,000 to $150,000 (U.S.).

"Thirty years ago today, the world realized the dream of walking on
the moon because we first stated it as an achievable goal and then did
what was necessary to fulfill it," said Patterson. "We are convinced
that the web model can and will be applied to the phone and we are
making our vision a reality with the launch of SpeechSite. SpeechSite
is the first product ever to give people the power to contact company
employees by saying their name, access corporate information by just
asking for it and conduct automated transactions from any phone at
anytime of day or night.  Think about what you expect when you log on
to a web site, then imagine how exciting it would be if those same
functions were mapped to a speech-activated interface accessible from
any phone and you'll understand what SpeechSite is."

Also visit www.speechworks.com for more information.

SpeechWorks, DialogModules, SMARTRecognizer and SpeechSite are either
trademarks or registered trademarks of SpeechWorks International,
Inc. in the United States and other countries.  All other names are
used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their
respective owners.


Lisa Jacobson
Schwartz Communications
781-684-6628 / phone
ljacobson@schwartz-pr.com

------------------------------

From: Bob Goudreau <goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:44 EDT
Subject: Re: Century 21


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note:

>> AD 1 is the *first* year after the epoch point ...

> The first FULLY COMPLETED year.

Which, since the epoch point is defined as the instantaneous moment
between 31 December 1 BC and 1 January AD 1, is exactly the same.

> What do you plan to do about the 365
> days prior to the completion of the first year?

By definition, that is the year 1 BC.

> If you believe as you apparently do that he was born on the date
> 1/1/1  then you are correct that we have to reach 12/31/2001 for
> two thousand years.

But I don't believe that was necessarily the exact birth date.  As I
mentioned in the earlier method, the exact date and year are lost to
history, and are not even important anymore.  The important point is
that *some* year is assumed to be the first year of the era, and that
this therefore defines an arbitary epoch point (a point, not an
interval, mind you) right at the beginning of that year.  The years
after that epoch point are numbered the "first", "second", "third",
 ... "nineteen hundred ninety-ninth", "two thousandth", etc. of that
AD era.  The years preceding that point are similarly numbered, though
in the opposite direction.

> If you believe as I do that he was 
> born on 1/1/(for-lack-of-a-better-name)'zero'

There is no year zero.  There is no lack of a better name for the year
in which Christ is alleged to have been born, since we already have a
perfectly good name for that year: AD 1.  That was the first
calendrical year in which he was supposed to be alive, so it is the
first "year of our lord".  It doesn't even matter if the birth didn't
really take place until part way through the year, since it's still
the first year containing any part of his life.  It's the same reason
why 1993 could be labeled as the first calendar year of the Bill
Clinton era, even though he did not assume the presidency until
January 20th of that year.

Note that the whole "<ordinal_number>'th year of <some_era>"
convention itself actually antedates the whole Christian calendar
system, before which years were often labeled as "the Nth year of the
reign of Caesar Augustus" (or whatever monarch of whatever nation was
relevant to the speaker or listeners).  A similar system is still in
use in Japan today, alongside the western calendar.  People had to
go out and buy new calendars, stationery, etc. when Emperor Hirohito
died ten years ago, thus ending the years of the "Showa" era, and
beginning the years of the "Heisei" era of the new Emperor Akihito.

> We say his date of birth
> occurred 1999 years ago, and as of 1/1/2000 we will say his birth
> occurred two thousand years ago. Doesn't this all come down to whether
> or not you can rightfully claim to be one year old on the day you
> were born?   PAT]

Exactly.  I maintain that you cannot rightfully make such a claim.
Since our calendrical system by definition says that the year in which
Christ was supposed to have been born was the 0001st "anno domini",
then we have to wait until the 2001st "anno domino" to celebrate the
2000th birthday.


Bob Goudreau			Data General Corporation
goudreau@rtp.dg.com		62 Alexander Drive	
+1 919 248 6231			Research Triangle Park, NC  27709, USA

------------------------------

From: larb0@aol.com (LARB0)
Date: 20 Jul 1999 12:31:28 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Century 21


The BC/AD milestones are no longer politically correct -- awhile back
it became more generically correct to use BCE (Before Common Era) and
CS (Common Era).  But -- that aside -- regarding the debate over when
the 21st century begins ...  who really really cares?


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Well obviously some people care; look
at how they have been arguing with me for the past couple days about
this point.   PAT]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:02 EST
From: FGOLDSTEIN@wn1.wn.net (Fred R. Goldstein)
Subject:  Re: Century 21


Stick to your guns Pat, you're right.

The calendar is like a decimal counter; each column gives rise to a
name.  There's the units, the decades, the centures, and the millenia.
Roll over a digit and the measurement-index changes.  Thus the decade
of the '90s technically began in 1990 (although socially it was more
like late '87).  And the millenium is in 2000, not 2001.

However, there is a small self-proclaimed (erroneously) elite of
pseudo-intellectuals who think that they're smarter than everyone
else by insisting that the millenium rollover is in 2001.  This is the
same crowd who probably thinks that a preposition is a bad word to end
a sentence with.  (Hint: It's not.  The sentence "A preposition is a
bad word to end a sentence with." is a joke, since it ends with a
preposition.  Some humorless people didn't get the joke and though
that a preposition was a bad word with which to end a sentence, which
is isn't, and as you can see that sounds a little odd too when you
follow that non-rule.)

It's more like the people who proclaim, "between you and I".  That's
horrible terrible no good very bad grammar, which no ordinary public
school (US meaning) fifth grader would ever say (twice!), but
"educated" people say it because they remember being told that it's
bad to begin a sentence with "Me an' Julio".  So they use the
subjective "I" after a preposition, where "me" is correct.  It's
called, I'm told, "hyperurbanization".

The hyperurbanized millenium begins in 2001.  In the meantime, the hoi
polloi and those of us who get the joke will all recognize that it's
the rollover to 2000 that counts.  Even if the First Decade (1-9 CE)
was only nine years long.  Programmers call it a fencepost error.

------------------------------

From: Joey Lindstrom <Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:22:33 -0600
Reply-To: Joey Lindstrom <Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU>
Subject: 2000 Silliness


On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:39:10 -0400 (EDT), editor@telecom-digest.org
wrote:

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: People are entitled to celebrate
> anything they please on any day they please. There were many people
> who celebrated on 1/1/1901 but there were an equal or larger number
> who celebrated on 1/1/1900 as well. Some probably used both dates as
> an excuse for drunken, rowdy and profane excesses in their behavior
> as I am sure will happen this time as well. See my answer to Bob G.
> above. If you claim credit for a year at the time of his birth now
> you get to 'pay back' that year and wait seventeen months. If you 
> instead say he was born 1/1/sometime and as of a year later we were
> at 1 (complete year) AD then you go with the end of this year.  PAT]

But under the system ol' Dennis set up, the assumption is that Jesus
was born in the year A.D. 1, not 0.  Whether or not Jesus was actually
born in that year is, today, not really that meaningful -- the date
Dennis picked is arbitrary and we're stuck with it, so let's ignore
the possibility that he was actually born in 4 B.C. or some such.

Dennis does not claim that Jesus was 1 year old at the time of his
birth.  Jesus turned "1" sometime in the year A.D. 2.  Think of it this
way: the year A.D. 1 was "the first year of Jesus' life", while A.D. 2
was "the second year of Jesus' life", etc.  Similarly, I'm 32, but I'm
in my 33rd year of life.  I do not get to celebrate being a century old
until I've completed my 100th year of life.  I was born on February
13th 1967, so I get to make that claim, and begin staking a claim on my
second century, starting on February 13th 2067.  Not February 12th,
February 13th.  Similarly, if we accept Dennis' calendar, Jesus'
birthdate is (hypothetically) 1/1/0001, and thus he has not completed
two millenia until 1/1/2001.  The year 2000, assuming Jesus was really
long lived, would be "the 2000th year of Jesus' life" but he doesn't
get to claim to actually be 2000 until he begins the 2001th year.

What disappoints me about your argument is that you're doing what a lot
of people have been doing.  First, you assert that you're right.  Then,
as evidence mounts that puts your position in question, instead of
acknowledging that you may not be right, you say it doesn't matter and
that people are entitled to celebrate any event in any way they please.

In fact, I agree: this New Year's Eve is psychologically significant
because it marks the changing of all four digits of the year.  And I
don't have a problem with that at all -- instead of working this New
Year's Eve, I'm taking two weeks off and having a good time.  But ONLY
because of the digit change, NOT because it's the start of a new
millenium or a new century.  Those things happen one year later.


 From the messy desktop of Joey Lindstrom
 Email: Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU or joey@lindstrom.com
 Phone: +1 403 313-JOEY
 FAX:   +1 413 643-0354 (yes, 413 not 403)
 Visit The NuServer!  http://www.GaryNumanFan.NU
 Visit The Webb!      http://webb.GaryNumanFan.NU

 I had some eyeglasses.  I was walking down the street when suddenly the
 prescription ran out.

         --Steven Wright

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:18:15 EDT
From: Carl Moore <cmoore@ARL.MIL>
Subject: Specifics on Romans' "Screw-Up" (was Re: Century 21)


PAT wrote that the Romans had gotten things all screwed up regarding
the calendar, which was indeed corrected by advancing the date 10 days
in (Oct.?) 1582.  However, the screw-up wasn't very bad.  The calendar
from the Romans is what we call the Julian calendar, and it assumed the
year to be exactly 365 1/4 days long (which is still close enough to be
taught to, say, an elementary school student).  The year is actually a
little shorter (by about 11 minutes plus about 14 seconds), and the
discrepancy added up to about 1 day every 128 years, and a result was
that natural events were occurring earlier and earlier in the calendar.

This error accumulated over many centuries and had grown to 10 days by
1582.  The pope would at least have been concerned about the Easter date,
which is based on the spring equinox (which should occur about March 21
and would have occurred about March 11 under the Julian calendar in 1582).

I'll lay out three leap year rules:

a. Every year divisible by 4 is a leap year.  This was done in the above-
   mentioned Julian calendar.

b. Have leap year only 97 times (not 100) in 400 year period.  This is
   done in the Gregorian calendar, which we use and which provides that
   years divisible by 100 and not by 400 are not leap years.  Accordingly:
   1600 is leap year; 1700,1800,1900 are not leap years; 2000 is leap year.

c. Omit leap year every 128 years.  This is even more accurate than what
   we have in the Gregorian calendar, but it takes 3200 years for the
   Gregorian calendar to be off even 1 day from this.

------------------------------

From: aboritz@CYBERNEX.NET (Alan Boritz)
Subject: Re: The Crisis at Pacifica Radio
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:42:39 -0400


In article <telecom19.225.1@telecom-digest.org>, TELECOM Digest Editor
<ptownson@telecom-digest.org> wrote:

> The board of directors for Pacifica Foundation has been attempting
> to change the format of its radio stations for quite awhile now. Its
> station in Texas, KPFT changed from a very politically left-wing
> commentary type of programming to an mostly-music format several months
> ago. Some have suggested the reason for the change is that Pacifica
> wants to more closely emulate National Public Radio, and get some of
> the money for itself that major corporations routinely toss at NPR.
> A story making the rounds is that one day members of the board at
> Pacifica said in essence, 'we have had enough of this hippie shit ...'
> and they decided to pull the plug on it.
 ...
> At other Pacifica-owned stations around the country, including WBAI in
> New York City, KPFT in Texas and KPFK in Los Angeles, on-air employees
> have been sternly warned against *any* discussion regards the dispute
> in Berkeley. How long or how well that will hold up I do not know. In
> fact back in April when the dispute at Berkeley's station first began
> heating up, on-air staffers at KPFA were warned to keep their mouths
> shut about it, at least on company time, that there was to be
> *nothing* said about the change in direction Pacifica was taking....

I think this is GREAT.  Pacifica is finally getting a taste of their
own medicine after virtually shooting their mouth off about about.  I
just wish Steve Post could be there to get a taste of it, too.

------------------------------

From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steven J Sobol)
Subject: Re: You've Got Mail. You're Being Watched.
Date: 20 Jul 1999 01:57:48 GMT
Organization: North Shore Technologies Corp. 888.480.4NET


On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:12:44 -0400, monty@roscom.com allegedly said:

> THE RIGHT THING

> You've Got Mail. You're Being Watched.

Yes, and? No one who has e-mail through work should *ever* consider their
company e-mail boxes private.


North Shore Technologies Corporation http://www.NorthShoreTechnologies.net
We don't just build websites; we build relationships!
815 Superior Ave. #610, Cleveland, OH 44114-2702 216.619.2NET 888.480.4NET
Host of the Forum for Responsible & Ethical E-mail http://www.spamfree.org

------------------------------

From: aboritz@CYBERNEX.NET (Alan Boritz)
Subject: Re: Last Laugh! Dead Cow DOA
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:27:14 -0400


In article <telecom19.226.11@telecom-digest.org>, Monty Solomon
<monty@roscom.com> wrote:

> Hackers Admit Virus in "Trojan Horse" Disk
> http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,39272,00.html?st.ne.fd.gif.e

> Back Orifice CDs Infected with CIH Virus
> http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2294628,00.html

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: If it was not 'their plan' to
> distribute the virus in this sneaky way, then *who's plan* was it?

Perhaps someone who might profit from selling the "cure?"  Did it ever
occur to you that the motive for spreading computer virii may not fit
the profile of a "true" hacker?  Even a deliberate attempt to embarass
the authors would be more likely than making the assumption that
authors wanted to be exposed by a simple virus scanner.

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #235
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Tue Jul 20 21:59:06 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA01131;
	Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:59:06 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:59:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907210159.VAA01131@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #236

TELECOM Digest     Tue, 20 Jul 99 21:59:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 236

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Yahoo - Local Phone Companies Say 'Hello' To Speech Recognition (M Pollock)
    Re: Who Sells 800?  Ask the Expert (Judith Oppenheimer)
    Re: DSL vs Cable Modems (Kevin DeMartino)
    Re: DSL vs Cable Modems (Isaac Wingfield)
    Re: www. Prefixes (Christopher Wolf)
    Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple (Thor L. Simon)
    Re: No PIC Selection Question (Michael P. Deignan)
    Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free Numbers? (Fred Atkinson)
    Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free Numbers? (Stanley Cline)
    Seeking Telecom Employment (Dave Schultz)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Pollock <pheel@sprynet.com>
Subject: Yahoo - Local Phone Companies Say 'Hello' To Speech Recognition
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:41:22 -0400
Organization: It's A Mike!


 http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/990720/tx_philips_1.html

Tuesday July 20, 10:37 am Eastern Time
Company Press Release
SOURCE: Philips Speech Processing
Local Phone Companies Say 'Hello' To Speech Recognition
Philips and Preferred Voice to Joint Market Speech Recognition Technology to
Enable Businesses and Residents Nationwide to Talk To Their Phone or
'Virtual Operator'

DALLAS, July 20 /PRNewswire/ -- Residents and businesses nationwide will
soon be able to use their voice to retrieve telephone directory service
information, dial numbers by speaking a caller's name and have incoming
calls automatically answered and routed via advanced speech recognition
technology made available through their local phone companies.

Preferred Voice, Inc. has agreed to joint market the new services with
Philips Speech Processing. The new services, based on natural language
understanding technology from Philips, will be made available to
incumbent and competitive local exchange carriers (ILECs and CLECs) in
the United States, enabling them to deliver value added services to
local business and residential customers.

Highlighting the services is a new application called Use Your
Voice(SM), an electronic speech recognition phone directory for small
and medium sized cities, allowing users to dial a phone number simply
by speaking a person's name. Use Your Voice will be marketed primarily
by ILECs to their local access business and residential customers
including wireless, cellular, Internet and payphone users.

The unique services have been adapted to the Preferred Voice
proprietary Voice Integrated Platform (VIP) technology and include a
central office ``voice auto attendant'' and an ``electronic speech
recognition phone directory.'' These services will enable callers to
use their voice to connect with an extension or request information
quickly and easily.

``Speech recognition is a natural step in the revolution to make
existing local phone services more powerful, expandable and value
added,'' said Ron van den Bos, president and CEO of Philips Speech
Processing. ``Our speech recognition solution is robust enough to
handle a small business or a small city. Our technology generates a
natural dialog between the caller and the system, greatly improving
local phone service features and functionality.''  Recently, KMC
Telecom Holdings, Inc. became the first CLEC to agree to offer the
Philips And Preferred Voice speech recognition services to local phone
customers when it signed a $12 million multi-year licensing agreement
with Preferred Voice. The agreement allows KMC to market the Preferred
Voice EMMA Line of Services to 39 markets initially, and possibly
extend the offering to a total of 120 markets.

The EMMA Line of Service applications is an enhancement to local
telephone company's existing standard central office telephone
services. EMMA answers incoming calls and routes them to the correct
destination, locating a call recipient at any phone, anywhere in the
U.S.

Additionally, EMMA enables callers using a corporate and personal
telephone directory, to dial a number simply by saying the name of the
person they are calling while using any phone, including cellular.

The Preferred Voice electronic speech recognition phone directory
allows virtually every business and resident in a city to be accessed
by callers simply by speaking the name of the business or resident,
eliminating the need to look up or dial the number. In addition, the
capacity of the Preferred Voice server engine is large enough that
most businesses and residential voice directories can be provided
simultaneously.

``Philips' speech recognition technology enables us to provide
enhanced services and revenue streams to local phone companies that,
six months ago, were not even feasible,'' said G. Ray Miller, COB of
Preferred Voice. ``The Philips speech recognition accuracy and
understanding has progressed beyond the ordinary capabilities of touch
tone dialing to make it highly productive and extremely simple to
use. This exciting new technology enables Preferred Voice to offer a
turnkey system, which includes all hardware, software and
installation, to telephone companies in the form of a revenue sharing
plan, with no up front investment required on their part.''

Philips currently provides Omnitel Pronto Italia, Italy's second
largest mobile phone operator, approximately 300 services using its
SpeechMania speech recognition platform. The new service for Omnitel
is the world's largest telecommunications installation and deployment
of natural speech recognition. The services offered to Omnitel
customers include yellow pages, travel information, headline news,
stock reports, restaurant, movie and concert guides, etc.

The Voice Integrated Platform (VIP) developed by Preferred Voice is a
specialized applications processor providing unique and superior call
processing along with a number of enhanced speech recognition
services, including:

Voice Dialing, a service that can be offered to residential or
business customers which allows the person placing the call to access
the dial tone, dial ``**'' on the keypad and speak with EMMA who
prompts the caller to speak a name from their directory.

EMMA Telephone Receptionist is the first central office based remote
accessed, automated attendant service. Utilizing natural dialog speech
recognition technology. TR answers your phone and listens as the
caller speaks a name, and department or location from the directory,
then routes the call to the person, department or location
requested. There is no equipment, costly software to purchase and most
important, no maintenance.

EMMA Smart Business Line gives any businessperson the competitive edge
by offering a portable, on the go business line that rings you at any
phone no matter where you go, locally or anywhere in the United
States. The automatic selective call screening allows customers to
work from their office, home, or cellular phone, never missing an
important phone call again.

EMMA 1 Special Number -- In order to find their parents, children
today may have to remember a list of multiple area codes and phone
numbers. With 1SN children are able to find their parents, quickly, at
anytime, and anywhere.

About Preferred Voice

Preferred Voice (OTC Bulletin Board: PFVI - news) has developed the
Voice Integrated Platform (VIP) to deliver an expanding menu of
natural dialog speech recognition products and services directly from
a central office facility. The company has previously announced
co-location agreements with Time Warner Telecom and Nextlink
Communications covering approximately 65% of tier 1 markets throughout
the United States.

About Philips

Philips Speech Processing is a pioneer and one of the global market
leaders in speech recognition, natural dialogue and language
understanding technologies. A developer of voice enabled telephony
applications, Philips has a large installed base of speech recognition
and natural dialogue systems in Europe and is a major speech
technology provider in North America. Its natural dialogue platform
SpeechMania and SpeechPearl(TM) speech recognition engines are used
for banking, travel, auto attendants speech portals and white and
yellow pages automation.

Philips has more than 40 years experience in the development and
marketing of speech products and developed the first commercially
available PC based natural, continuous speech recognition engine for
speech to text applications in 1993. Philips' line of end user
software (FreeSpeech 98 and FreeSpeech 2000 for SoHo and consumer
markets, and SpeechPro for the professional dictation users) is
available in 13 languages and its VoCon speech recognizer for embedded
systems has been successfully integrated in consumer electronics
products and devices.

Philips has set up SpeechSolutions Design Centers around the globe,
supporting R&D and the establishment of industry standards, and is a
member in various standardization bodies such as ECTF, SAPI, HAVi,
HomeAPI, VXML, W3C and VoiceTIMES. Internet: www.speech.philips.com .

Royal Philips Electronics (NYSE: PHG - news) of the Netherlands is one
of the world's biggest electronics companies and Europe's largest,
with sales of US$ 33.9 billion in 1998. It is a global leader in color
television sets, lighting, electric shavers, color picture tubes for
televisions and monitors, and one-chip TV products. Its 228,800
employees in more than 60 countries are active in the areas of
lighting, consumer electronics, domestic appliances, components,
semiconductors, medical systems, business electronics, and IT services
(Origin). Philips is quoted on the NYSE (PHG), London, Frankfurt,
Amsterdam and other stock exchanges. News from Philips is located at
www.news.philips.com .

SOURCE: Philips Speech Processing

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:25:10 -0400
From: Judith Oppenheimer <joppenheimer@icbtollfree.com>
Organization: ICB Toll Free News / WhoSells800.com
Subject: Re: Who Sells 800?  Ask the Expert


NEW YORK, July 20 /PRNewswire/ -- A new service offers advice about
toll- free numbers and service, 800, 888 and 877 number marketing; and
toll free carrier and vendor choices.

WhoSells800.com, the only directory of toll free service providers
online or in print, today announced a new link at its web site, called
``Ask the Expert'', which is modeled after the successful link of the
same name at its parent site, ICB Toll Free News and Consultancy.

With nearly 24 million 800, 888 and 877 numbers in use, competition
among service providers is fierce. WhoSells800.com's detailed listings
of local and long distance phone companies, discount rate aggregators,
enhanced service providers, and shared-use vanity number companies,
helps end users comparison shop.

What's more, by clicking on ``Ask the Expert'', visitors at
WhoSells800.com can ask for advice about toll-free numbers and
service, 800, 888 and 877 number marketing applications; and carrier
and vendor choices.

About WhoSells800.com

WhoSells800.com is the 'yellow pages' directory of toll free service
providers, offering customers detailed listings of companies that sell
toll free numbers and service: local and long distance phone
companies, discount rate aggregators and resellers, enhanced service
providers, and shared-use vanity number companies. The service
directory is free to users. The listed providers get qualified
leads. WhoSells800.com can be found at http://whosells800.com.

WhoSells800.com is published by ICB Toll Free News, the online news
service of the toll free industry located at http://icbtollfree.com,
and ICB Toll Free Consultancy, located at http://800consulting.com.

With a watchful eye on industry standards forums, FCC proposals,
carrier maneuvers, and civil court proceedings over toll-free brand
and trademark disputes, ICB Toll Free delivers strategic intelligence
well in advance of public distribution. ICB is the premier source of
toll-free information and support, advising corporate users and small
businesses, call centers, marketing firms and trade associations, on
applicable marketing, regulatory and legislative issues, since 1993.

``Ask the Expert'' inquirers from WhoSells800.com and from ICB Toll
Free, can also call 1 800 THE EXPERT, or email editor@icbtollfree.com,
subject heading: Ask the Expert.

------------------------------

From: Kevin DeMartino <KDeMartino@drc.com>
Subject: Re: DSL vs Cable Modems
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:50:04 -0400


Paul Berens wrote: 	

> The technical discussions of which technology, XDSL or Cable Modems,
> will carry the most bits is interesting, but follow the money.  The
> consumer wants one bill ( and the concomitant savings this should
> produce due to lowered overhead) for his telephone, his ISP, and his
> television/movies.  XDSL isn't going to carry "content" such as
> television, right?  As long as that's true, seems to me we should bet
> on the cable providers.  They can provide everything XDSL can provide
>  -- plus content.

It is true that digital subscriber line (DSL) systems cannot currently
support broadcast video, and that cable TV systems can provide one
stop shopping, with video, voice, and Internet access charges on a
single bill.

However, it is possible to support broadcast video with asymmetric DSL
(ADSL). This could be accomplished if ADSL is used in conjunction with
the digital loop carrier (DLC) approach to reduce the length of
twisted pair access lines. With DLC, a feeder cable containing
hundreds of twisted pair would be replaced by a single fiber, and the
average twisted pair length can be reduced to approximately 2000 ft
(see Shumate and Snelling's paper in the March 1991 issue of IEEE
Communications).  For most subscribers, ADSL with DLC could provide
data rates in excess of 20 Mb/s in the downstream direction, which
could support a dozen or more MPEG-1 (VCR quality) video channels or
four or more MPEG-2 (high quality) video channels. For this approach
to be competitive with cable TV and satellite TV, access to a much
larger number of video channels would need to be provided, which
implies the requirement to switch selected broadcast video signals
onto subscriber lines at the central office. Some mechanism that is
more efficient than channel surfing needs to be provided to allow
subscribers to select video channels.

Will the telcos take the path described above? I don't know. In any
case, we should be encouraged that there are two viable options for
providing subscribers with data rates that are high enough to support
a full range of communication functions. This opens up the possibility
of real competition in the local loop.


Kevin DeMartino
Dynamics Research Corporation   

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:07:33 -0700
From: Isaac Wingfield <isw@ictv.com>
Subject: Re: DSL vrs. Cable Modems


Paul Berens writes:

> XDSL isn't going to carry "content" such as
> television, right?  As long as that's true, seems to me we should bet
> on the cable providers.  They can provide everything XDSL can provide
> -- plus content.

Well, I was involved with Video-on-Demand-over-ADSL trials at Bell
Atlantic more than five years ago. That's "content". Bits is bits; it
doesn't matter how they are delivered. And content is provided by
third parties to whoever bellies up with the money. TV stations and
cable operators buy it, and so could xDSL providers. MPEG video
servers are getting to be a dime-a-dozen, too.

MPEG can provide DVD-quality at three to four megabits/second; well
within xDSL's capabilities, and I have no doubt that, in some areas,
that will be the delivery method of choice. You're right to "follow
the money", but it seems clear that "the money" will dictate different
delivery methods in different places. For example only: FTTC in
heavily built-up urban areas, HFC and/or xDSL in the 'burbs, satellite
way out beyond the wires. I think they will all "win" to some extent;
that's the beauty of digital delivery, whether of telephony, video,
computer data, or whatnot. The same data streams can be carried on all
the above physical plants.

A lot of the choice depends on infrastructure in a given area --
whether the telco plant or the cable plant is in better shape to
handle digital streams. Take where I live, for example. The cable
plant was rebuilt to HFC for broadband about six years ago, while we
don't even have a *real* telephone company -- we're misserved by GTE
with a noisy old analog switch that can't even pass 28.8K most
days. That's why I have a cable modem and no possibility of DSL. Up
the street in Pac Bell land, DSL is available in many places where the
cable plant can't support two-way data.


Isaac Wingfield                      Project Director
isw@ictv.com                         ICTV
Vox: 408-364-9201                    14600 Winchester Blvd.
Fax: 408-364-9300                    Los Gatos, CA 95030

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:15:54 -0500
From: Christopher Wolf <wolf@ti.com>
Organization: Texas Instruments
Subject: Re: www. Prefixes


Derek J. Balling wrote:

>> Until then we can have the root named machines handle http.
>> I came from a school of programming where the programmer had to
>> anticipate the errors of the user and the program must 1) not crash on
>> bad data and 2) use bad data to the best of its ability. Browsers
>> have embraced this school of thought. Just look at all the garbage
>> one can type in the GO TO line and still get a site! A far cry from
>> Lynx where (last time I checked) one still had to type http:// .

> Funny, my CS professors ingrained into ME the concept of GIGO, Garbage
> In Garbage Out ... if you got bad data, you'd end up giving out bad
> data. In fact, I can't think of a CompSci professor who DIDN'T mention
> it at some point in time.

I believe that's a warning, not a requirement.


-W

------------------------------

From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon)
Subject: Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple
Date: 20 Jul 1999 09:09:56 -0400
Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp.
Reply-To: tls@rek.tjls.com


In article <telecom19.234.3@telecom-digest.org>, Roy Smith
<roy@endeavor.med.nyu.edu> wrote:

> tls@rek.tjls.com wrote:

>> Have you tried other DSL providers?  They can typically deliver DSL
>> service to everywhere Bell Atlantic can, and some places where they
>> can't.

> If BA owns the local loops, how can other providers get me service?

Four words: "Telecommunications Act of 1996".  Bell's own Internet
provider has to buy access to those wires just like the competition
does -- and the competition got there first.

Part of the typical incumbent-carrier FUD is to pretend that somehow
they're better because they own the wires.  I'll take someone who
knows what he's doing over someone who owns a lot of stuff any day.


Thor Lancelot Simon	                               tls@rek.tjls.com
	"And where do all these highways go, now that we are free?"

------------------------------

From: Michael P. Deignan <mpd@ideamation.com>
Subject: Re: No PIC Selection Question
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:19:08 -0400


In article <telecom19.233.3@telecom-digest.org>, Evan L. Hill
<evanh@primenet.com> wrote:

> What restrictions are placed on a line where no Long Distance Carrier
> has been selected?

> Are 1+800 and 1+888 calls allowed?

> My long distance carrier now charges $3.00 per month.  I normally do
> not make over $15.00 worth of calls per YEAR.

> I'm tired of hearing about everyone's 'calling plan' to save money.
> How about the 'Zero Calls-Zero Dollars' calling plan?

I'm with you! I have three lines in my house (one business, two
residental) and I do not have a PIC on *any* of them. I'm lucky if I
make *1* long distance call a month (I think the last long distance
call I made was back in the winter ...) and could care less about all
these "calling plans". I like the "zero-calls, zero-dollars" plan.

I haven't had any problems without a PIC. When I do make the
occasional long distance call, I use 10-10-whatever (whomever happens
to have the cheapest rate today) and get billed 10 cents/minute. No
minimum fees no plans, no nothing. Oh, and I've never had a problem
calling an 800/888 number either. I think its the best of both worlds,
quite frankly. I can have all the cake I want, and for less money!


MD

------------------------------

From: Fred Atkinson <fatkinson@loralorion.com>
Subject: Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free Numbers?
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:49:01 -0400


I live in Maryland.  If the number is local, it is strictly '10 digit'
dialing.  If long distance, then it is 1 plus'.

It is interesting to live in an area where four different area codes
can be local calls (703, 202, 240, and 301).  It keeps you guessing
because with the exception of '202', you have to figure out whether a
call is local or long distance.  But, all '202' calls are local to
this area.


Fred

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:53:50 -0400
From: Stanley Cline <sc1@roamer1.org>
Subject: Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free Numbers?


Bob Goudreau wrote:

> How about it, readers who live in Maryland, Atlanta, Denver, Dallas,
> etc.:  can you dial toll free numbers using just 10D, or does only
> the 1+10D format work?

 From Atlanta, 10d dialing to 800/888/877 numbers (from BellSouth and
MediaOne lines) fails; I get "you must first dial a one or zero..."
[like 0+ works for toll-free numbers! :( ] recording.


Stanley Cline -- sc1 at roamer1 dot org -- http://www.roamer1.org/

------------------------------

From: Akasloots@aol.com (Dave Schultz)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:52:05 EDT
Subject: Seeking Telecom Employment


I've spent years in the contract precision sheet metal trade in the
Silicon Valley and have been lightly exposed to some pretty high tech
stuff. Now I am interested in getting into telecommunications. More
specifically, I would like to be one of those guys who roams around in
rural areas and maintains mountain top equipment. I have the ability
to travel, and invite miserable work conditions/times. I've poked
around locally online to find a place to break into this industry but
so far have understandably ran into dead ends that seek those with
experience.

Can you suggest learning materials or places to gain experience in
things like PBX, T1/T3, ATM, DSX-1/-3, Titan, OC-48 or any others that
can help me get into a career I know I can lick with my eyes shut?

I appreciate your valuable time and look forward to future
correspondence.


Regards,

Dave Schultz

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #236
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Tue Jul 20 23:17:14 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA03981;
	Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:17:14 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:17:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907210317.XAA03981@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #237

TELECOM Digest     Tue, 20 Jul 99 23:17:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 237

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Freedom From Spam at Last! (Jack Decker)
    More on Bright Light POP Spam Filtering (Lauren Weinstein)
    Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea (Jack Decker)
    Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea  (Lauren Weinstein)
    Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free Numbers? (Mark J. Cuccia)
    Re: No More Late Fees (spamh8r)
    Re: DSL and Cable Modems (Bud Couch)
    Re: Last Laugh? Some People Don't Think it Was Funny (Steve Winter)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:01:12 -0400
From: Jack Decker <jack@novagate.com>
Subject: Freedom From Spam at Last!


Now it appears that there are a couple of new ways to eliminate spam
from your inbox.  One is a service called BrightMail
<http://www.brightmail.com/>.  The basic idea is that you register
with them and then instead of going to your ISP's mail server directly
to get your mail, you POP BrightMail.  It knows who you are and
immediately goes out to your actual e-mail server to get your mail,
eliminates any spam, and passes any other messages on through to you
transparently.  They say they don't even save your password between
sessions.  It's all done in real time.  Rather than try to further
explain how it operates, I'll refer you to two articles that have just
appeared that describe the service:

http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/20781.html
http://www.pcworld.com/pcwtoday/article/0,1510,11837,00.html

Also, there is a company (MsgTo.com at http://www.MsgTo.com/index.jsp)
that figures that they can get you to use their spam-elimination
service to eliminate ads you don't want, while "opting in" for those
you do.  An article about that service can be found at:

http://www.upside.com/texis/mvm/opinion/story?id=378f6f960

To give credit where credit is due, ALL of the above articles were
found via the TELECOM Digest news page.  I don't know how you did it,
Pat, but you've managed to put together a really great news resource
here.  Thank you for a really useful service!


Jack

[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Thanks for your compliments about the
Daily E-News, the service I operate at http://telecom-digest.org/news
culled from various web sources. 

Something I do not understand about the Bright Mail service is what
are they doing I cannot do for myself with various mail filters in
place? Or are they aiming at a segment of the netizens who do not yet
understand or wish to know how to filter their own mail? By filtering
it myself, I think I have one less privacy concern to worry about,
namely the people at Bright Mail snooping around into the mail.  

Jack's message is the first of four on the topic in this issue. Lauren
will respond, then another rebuttal from Jack, and finally Lauren's
response to Jack's rebuttal.  Stay tuned!  All in this issue.   PAT]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 99 09:41 PDT
From: lauren@vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: More on Bright Light POP Spam Filtering


Greetings.  I received an e-mail from a TELECOM Digest reader who
apparently misunderstood one aspect of my recent item regarding Bright
Light Technologies' spam filtering services.  I thought I was clear
about this in my original message, but I'll take this opportunity to
be even more explicit.

Bright Light has (for quite sometime) had spam filtering services that
work with ISPs, and let the ISPs filter out spam based on Bright Light
filtering rules.  Outside of the issues of making sure that only spam
is deleted, this is relatively non-controversial.

My concerns expressed in my previous item were not with those
ISP-based services, but with the newly announced Bright Light offering
that encourages *end-users* to route all of their inbound e-mail
directly through Bright Light servers, by altering their POP server
settings in their e-mail software.  It is this flow of the full text
of all incoming user e-mail through Bright Light that is where the
range of potential privacy and other problems I discussed are
applicable.


 --Lauren--
Lauren Weinstein
lauren@vortex.com
Moderator, PRIVACY Forum --- http://www.vortex.com
Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy
Host, "Vortex Daily Reality Report & Unreality Trivia Quiz"
  --- http://www.vortex.com/reality

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:08:19 -0400
From: Jack Decker <jack@novagate.REMOVE-THIS.com.content.net>
Subject: Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea


> Greetings.  Bright Light Technologies (http://www.brightlight.com),
> which sports an impressive list of technology partners and investors, 
> has introduced a "free" service to end users (previously they have
> apparently mainly worked with ISPs) that attempts to filter out most
> unsolicited e-mail (SPAM) before it reaches the user.  They do this
> by trying to detect spam flowing around the net and then applying
> filtering rules.  Rejected messages are pushed aside and can be
> viewed later if the user wishes, and lists of rejected messages
> are made available.

Yes, I read about that this morning.  To me, this was one of the best
things I've read about since ICQ was introduced.  :-)

> I'm a long time spam-fighter myself -- I maintain a public spam
> blocking list at http://www.vortex.com.  I'm more than willing to
> declare the concept of trying to filter out spam (so long as there
> aren't too many false positives) to be a good one.  Unfortunately, the
> method chosen by Bright Light for end users' use is a potentially
> major invasion of privacy -- ironic in light of Bright Light's written
> statements that they want to "avoid the appearance of violating email
> privacy" (exact quote).

You allege a "potential" invasion of privacy.  Well, Lauren, there are
"potentials" to invade privacy all over the net.  If you are going to
worry about every "potential" invasion of privacy, I suggest you
disconnect your computer, take it and all the associated components
outside, pour gasoline over them, and toss in a lighted match.  Then
you will never have to worry about any "potential" invasion of
privacy.  When you can PROVE beyond the shadow of a doubt that the
folks at Bright Light have actually invaded someone's privacy, then I
may be willing to listen.  Then again, I may not care.  Granted, I'm
not crazy about anyone else reading my e-mail but I know that if
someone really wants to do it, they can do it at my ISP or any point
along the way.  And I *REALLY* hate spam.  I guess in a way I have
lower expectations than you do, I have never really assumed anything
transmitted over the 'net is truly private.  But then, I don't assume
that about phone conversations either.  I know that phone company
employees can and sometimes do listen to phone calls for their own
amusement.

> The problem doesn't take a masters degree in Internet engineering to
> understand.  To use their service, you have to route ALL of your
> inbound e-mail through Bright Light servers.  Your POP account
> accesses Bright Light, then they login to your ISP to pick up your
> mail.  It passes through Bright Light, and then to you.

Right.  And as I understand it, it doesn't get stored anywhere on
their system, it's strictly "pass-thru".  To me, that's a whole lot
safer than a service that might store your mail on a hard drive
somewhere.  But in any case, I don't see where this presents any
greater risk than using a large ISP.  Mail has to be stored somewhere,
mail has to pass through somewhere.  What are you afraid of, that they
might trap and temporarily store a piece of porno spam that was
addressed to you?  Well, what does that prove?  The fact that I am
using their service means that I DON'T WANT to receive such material
(and I really don't!).

> From both a Privacy and Risks standpoint, it's hard to imagine a
> system more primed for potential trouble.  Bright Light's talk of
> highly scalable systems notwithstanding, ANY centralization of e-mail
> handling systems in this manner, funneling in e-mail from numerous
> ISPs, represents an immense target for all manner of mischief--even
> more attractive to problems than the largest individual ISPs.  Systems
> failures and overloading can still happen.  Hackers can target the
> facilities.

And why is that any more of a risk if you use Bright Light than if you
have an account on one of the major ISP's?  First of all, keep in mind
that no one is forced to use Bright Light.  The moment I get a whiff
of something happening that makes me doubt that it is safe to use
their service, I change two lines in my e-mail configuration and I am
back to going directly to my ISP.  And again, they aren't storing your
mail on their system.  If they go down, you don't lose any mail, and
if you revert back to directly accessing your ISP's POP server you can
be back in business in literally seconds.

So you have a problem with how they do things -- very simple -- don't
use their service!  But until something happens to make me believe
otherwise, I think this is one of the best free services to be offered
on the 'net in many months!

> And of course, the concentration of e-mail traffic could
> make Bright Light the recipient of choice for legal actions, by those
> seeking to track or access e-mail messages for any number of purposes
> (an increasingly popular legal maneuver, as you probably know).  The
> requirement to provide such information could occur regardless of how
> little (or how much) of users' e-mail is "normally" stored on disk at
> the service (as opposed to passing through) in the course of routine
> operations.

And why would they target Bright Light before they'd go directly to
the recipient's ISP?  That would not make sense.  First of all, Bright
Light could easily make the case that they are simply acting as a
filter for e-mail, and that they don't store e-mail on their system
unless it appears to be spam.  I don't think they can be required to
rewrite their software to store messages of individual users.  But in
the second place, since the user can bypass Bright Light's service at
any time and go directly to his ISP to pick up his mail, it simply
would not make sense to involve Bright Light in this way.

> If the spam filtering rules were only sent directly to the users'
> "real" ISPs and the spam blocking applied at that level, the red flags
> wouldn't be flying up this way.

Well, sure, Lauren, if all ISP's would take an active role in spam
blocking, we wouldn't need this kind of service.  But many don't.
Actually, this statement makes me wonder a little about your motives.
You say that you have a public spam blocking list, and I'm sure you'd
like it if more ISP's would use it.  But they don't, so this gives the
users a way to have spam blocking even if their ISP doesn't offer this
feature.  Could it be that perhaps you'd offer a similar service if
you had the technical know-how, but since you don't, you're just
throwing stones at a company that is essentially a competitor for the
service you offer?  Yes, I realize that neither of you are making any
money from the respective services, but sometimes people or companies
compete for other reasons known only to themselves.

> The fundamental problem is having the
> full text of users' total incoming e-mail passing through a
> centralized third party e-mail service outside of the users' direct
> control or affiliation.

Since when did the average user have any "control or affiliation" over
whatever part of the Internet their e-mail passes through now?  Seems like
if this is a "fundamental problem", it's a problem of the Internet as a
whole, and many ISP's in particular.

Of course, someone might say that they don't use AOL or MSN or
EarthLink or some other large ISP precisely because they are worried
about having their e-mail co-mingled on the same server as many others
use, one over which they have no control.  Why this would be a problem
I'm not sure, but if you feel that way, you are certainly free not to
use such services, just as you are free to not use Bright Light.  But
I suspect that for the vast majority of 'net users, the small risks
involved simply aren't worth worrying about.

> This isn't rocket science -- it should be obvious that this sort of
> centralization of actual e-mail traffic flow is exactly the *wrong*
> direction to be moving in.

Do you have a better idea that permits users to easily remove spam, at
no cost and WITHOUT going through the hassle of maintaining their own
filter list?  I understand that privacy is your main concern, but for
MANY other Internet users, the convenience and ease of use of this
service is going to count for a lot more than any *potential* privacy
problems.  Now if a real, verifiable privacy problem ever occurs, then
all bets are off.  But as long as we are talking simply "potential"
problems here, I'm not going to lose any sleep over them

> I'd recommend thinking long and hard
> before participating, as an end user, in any third party service that
> asks you to route all of your incoming e-mail through them.  Even with
> the best of intentions (and I assume these on the part of Bright
> Light), and even with a "free" service, the price is much too high.

Thank you for your recommendation and opinion, but for the time being
I disagree strongly.  I think that the very REAL benefit of spam
elimination far outweighs any "potential" privacy issues.

> My RealAudio "Vortex Daily Reality Report & Unreality Trivia Quiz" for
> today (see below for URL to the archive of segments) is devoted to
> this topic.  Take care, all.

Why is it that the people who are wrong always get the airtime?  <grin>


Jack
(To send me private e-mail, make the obvious modification to my return
e-mail address).

------------------------------

Subject: Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea 
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 99 15:42:04 PDT
From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren@vortex.com>


Jack,

To respond very briefly ...

Any system that introduces a new centralized point for attack or
failure needs to be very carefully scrutinized -- especially if it is
likely to attract huge volumes of e-mail traffic very quickly.  A
third party POP e-mail proxy service effectively doubles the places
where things can go wrong -- or where different privacy policies and
reactions/responses could come into play involving the same e-mail:
the user's "real" ISP and the proxy service.

As for waiting for an actual privacy problem to develop before
worrying...  This is precisely the kind of attitude that has resulted
in some of the worst privacy-related abuses -- we see this over and
over again ... and getting the genie back into the bottle afterwards
is often impossible.  If a *system*, as deployed, creates conditions
that make privacy problems more likely, it is still worthy of
significant proactive concern, even if its operators have laudable
motives.


 --Lauren--
Lauren Weinstein
lauren@vortex.com
Moderator, PRIVACY Forum --- http://www.vortex.com
Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy
Host, "Vortex Daily Reality Report & Unreality Trivia Quiz"
  --- http://www.vortex.com/reality

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:05:26 -0500
From: Mark J. Cuccia <mcuccia@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu>
Subject: Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free Numbers?


Bob Goudreau (goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com) wrote:

> Recent discussion of Toronto's upcoming move away from 7-digit
> dialing got me to pondering the issue of toll-free dialing in a
> 10D/11D dialing regime (where 10D can be used for local numbers,
> but toll calls require 1+10D). Since calls to NPAs 800, 888, 877,
> etc. cost the caller the same amount (zero) as does a local call,
> should toll-free numbers be dialable as straight 10D (no 1+
> required, although it should still certainly be permitted) in such
> areas?

> How about it, readers who live in Maryland, Atlanta, Denver,
> Dallas, etc.: can you dial toll free numbers using just 10D, or
> does only the 1+10D format work?

Two earlier followups (one from Denver, the other from Maryland)
indicate that US West and Bell Atlantic (respectively) do _NOT_ seem
to allow "straight" 10-D dialing to toll-free numbers (SACs 800,
888, 877, etc).

I don't think that Bell South allows "straight" 10-D dialing to
800/888/877/etc., neither, whether Atlanta or Miami.

IMO, in places where 10-D (local) dialing has become _MANDATORY_
(but those where local dialing is still "straight" 10-D), calls to
toll-free SACs _SHOULD_ become permissive as "straight" (i.e., no
1+ required, but still permitted) 10-D.

However, since most media advertisements and commercials indicate
to call 1-800- ... or 1-888- ... (etc), most customers in mandatory
"straight" 10-D local dialing areas probably won't "try" to dial
such SACs as "straight" 10-D.

Of course, since 888 and 877 (as well as 866, 855, etc) have been
available as local c.o.code prefixes for decades, you couldn't allow
"straight" 10-D dialing of these toll-free SACs in areas where 7-D
(local) dialing is still permitted if the SAC's digits are also in use
as a (local) c.o.code prefix in that "home" NPA, or if those digits
are "permissive 7-D local cross-border" to an adjacent NPA ...
(UNLESS a time-out were introduced, which in many people's opinions,
mine included, is confusing and burdonesome).

I mentioned media representation of toll-free numbers earlier ...

The Bell System, and later, Bellcore, have for YEARS, HIGHLY
RECOMMENDED that the toll-free SAC digits be presented NOT in
parenthesis! i.e., NOT to display a number as (800) 555-2368.  The
reason was that some might consider the 800 SAC to be "optional" and
thus the caller might simply dial 555-2368, which "could" be a valid
local or home-NPA number reached with just seven digits!

Until the 1+ became a "more-or-less" de-facto standard for either toll
or "ten-digits follow" (depending on the area of the country), some
places dialed their 800 calls as 112+800-nxx-xxxx, some dialed them as
1+800-nxx-xxxx -- while others (such as major metro areas in the urban
northeast, urban midwest, and urban parts of California -- but PRIOR
to the introduction of N0X and N1X c.o.codes in those local areas)
could dial the calls as "straight" 10-D as 800-nxx-xxxx, as they
dialed _ALL_ non-home NPA calls as "straight" 10-D, regardless of the
toll or non-toll status of the call!

Also, I SOMETIMES see/hear TV/Radio/print commercials/ads for
toll-free numbers using 888 or 877 which do _NOT_ indicate the "1+"!
This could cause wrong numbers to local (or home-NPA) 888-xxxx or
877-xxxx numbers! And in areas where there already is MANDATORY
(straight) 10-D local dialing, since the 1+ seems to be REQUIRED for
calls to toll-free SACs 800/888/877/etc., such "straight" 10-D dialing
to 800/888/877 toll-free numbers will fail in the local switch! :-(


MARK_J._CUCCIA__PHONE/WRITE/WIRE/CABLE:__HOME:__(USA)__Tel:_CHestnut-1-2497
WORK:__mcuccia@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu|4710-Wright-Road|__(+1-504-241-2497)
Tel:UNiversity-5-5954(+1-504-865-5954)|New-Orleans-28__|fwds-on-no-answr-to
Fax:UNiversity-5-5917(+1-504-865-5917)|Louisiana(70128)|cellular/voicemail-

------------------------------

From: spamh8r <spamh8r@my-deja.com>
Subject: Re: No More Late Fees
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:12:11 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


I'm also with WellsFargo and use the online bill pay.  It costs $5.00 a
month.

It seems that you don't understand something about the paymybills.com
service:  not only does it allow you to pay your bills online (like many
banks do these days), but it also RECEIVES your bills for you.
Basically, you get an email saying that a bill arrived.  You log onto
the paymybills.com Web site and authorize the payment of it.  Period.
If you have a question, you can view the original bill that they've
scanned for you.

One of your complaints was that you still have to log onto the site to
pay it ... not true.  You can set up automatic payments so that once
the bill arrives it gets paid without you ever looking at it.


spamh8r

 ===================================
 "I don't like Spam!" - Monty Python
 ===================================

------------------------------

From: Bud Couch <Bud_Couch@adc.com>
Subject: Re: DSL and Cable Modems
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:58:54 -0700
Organization: ADC Kentrox


Msgt Paul Berens wrote:

> The technical discussions of which technology, XDSL or Cable Modems,
> will carry the most bits is interesting, but follow the money.  The
> consumer wants one bill ( and the concomitant savings this should
> produce due to lowered overhead) for his telephone, his ISP, and his
> television/movies. 

Maybe some idi^H^H^Hpeople want "one bill". To me, that is a
negative. I *need* my telephone, if for no other reason than to dial
911. I don't want that service held hostage to my dispute about 
whether or not I ordered the latest _WWF Bloodfest_ on pay-per-view.


Bud Couch                |When correctly viewed, everything is lewd.|
bud@kentrox.com          |                         -Tom Lehrer      |
  Insert disclaimer here | "Therefore you're guilty!" -EEOC         |

------------------------------

From: steve@sellcom.com (Steve Winter)
Subject: Re: Last Laugh? Some People Don't Think it Was Funny
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:05:36 GMT
Organization: WWW.SELLCOM.COM
Reply-To: steve@sellcom.com


Pat TELECOM Digest Editor made a brilliant point:

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Maybe so, but in that case, who did
> put the virus on the CD Rom? I think it had to be an inside job;
> who else had access to the product? And if they know, or find out,
> I wonder if they will tell the public or try to keep it secret,
> the way telco/credit card back offices do with they discover an
> employee who has a 'problem' or caused an 'incident'. Some reporter
> on television a couple days ago was saying the computer used to
> copy the CD Roms had the virus on it by accident; that no one was
> aware of it until the virus had been copied on to all the CDs ...

> It seems odd that your 'small group of computer gurus with brains'
> would not have seen that, or at the very least completely inspected
> the computer they were using prior to turning out all the work

I am surprised that the term "poetic justice" has not surfaced in this
discussion.  Who, in their right mind would expect to get hacking
tools designed to damage legitimate computer systems and not get some
kind of virus or trojan?

I think the whole thing is disgusting.


Steve

http://www.sellcom.com
Cyclades Siemens EnGenius Zoom at discount prices.
SSL Secure VISA/MC/AMEX Online ordering
Listed at http://www.thepubliceye.com as SELLCOM
New Brick Wall "non-MOV" surge protection


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Disgusting, you say? You must be one
the people who did not think it was funny.  :)    PAT]

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #237
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Wed Jul 21 01:40:04 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA08499;
	Wed, 21 Jul 1999 01:40:04 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 01:40:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907210540.BAA08499@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #238

TELECOM Digest     Wed, 21 Jul 99 01:40:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 238

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: www. Prefixes (James Bellaire)
    Re: www. Prefixes (Harvey Taylor)
    Re: Toll-Free Calls with a No PIC Selection (Mark J. Cuccia)
    Re: Toll-Free Calls with a No PIC Selection (Evan L. Hill)
    Need Grunts in LA/San Fernando Valley Area (David Kritzberg)
    Re: Just a Question About New Area Codes (Linc Madison)
    Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California (L Madison)
    Re: Freedom From Spam at Last! (John R. Levine)
    Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers? (Adam H. Kerman)
    Re: The Crisis at Pacifica Radio (Gary Novosielski)
    Assignment of Country Code for Palestine (Betty Cockrell)
    Re: A Week We Won't Forget! (Matt Ackeret)
    Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple (David Lee)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bellaire@tk.com (James Bellaire)
Subject: Re: www. Prefixes
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:49:01 GMT


It was Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:09:26 -0700, and Derek J. Balling
<dredd@megacity.org> wrote in comp.dcom.telecom:

>>> ; since we want to support both http://asdf.com/ and
>>> ; http://www.asdf.com/ we need the next two RRs as well

>> Wow.  Even the RFC written back in 1996 suggests that the root name
>> should be given to http.

> Where are you seeing that?

 "we want to support" ... "http://asdf.com/"

> Keep in mind here, lest we argue at cross-purposes. *grin* I am not
> against someone, if they want to, burning their root domain on a web
> server. I am merely indicating that this decision may not be the best
> forward-thinking decision, ESPECIALLY when alternatives exist which
> allow the user to get the same experience, and for it to be achieved
> in a graceful manner.

Including one alternative that you are championing that you just found
out about. I would venture a guess that most domains don't even exist
in the same sense as they did a few years back.  Just a name and an IP
assigned to the www.domainname 'machine' which is nothing more than a
virtual port at an ISP.

We really are fighting from different angles.  You are saving that all
important root name for some service that doesn't even exist.  I am
using my root name for the service I primarily am interested in.

>> Three years later and it still hasn't been widely accepted.  I wonder
>> how many admins have DNS files filled with experimental stuff?  It
>> makes sense to keep the files down to the required data.

> Why? I mean, seriously, are you so strapped for space on your external
> DNS server that you can't spare the extra hundred or so bytes to
> implement it?  Does sending that update to your secondary NS REALLY
> cost you so much that it will break you?

And how many domains are on the NS?  A couple hundred bytes for a
domain or two is fine -- but when you are talking hundreds of domains
on a server that is a lot to keep track of!  It is easier to use a
bare bones file that has just what is needed to make it work.

>> I came from a school of programming where the programmer had to
>> anticipate the errors of the user and the program must 1) not crash on
>> bad data and 2) use bad data to the best of its ability.

 [...]

> Funny, my CS professors ingrained into ME the concept of GIGO, Garbage
> In Garbage Out ... if you got bad data, you'd end up giving out bad
> data. In fact, I can't think of a CompSci professor who DIDN'T mention
> it at some point in time.

GIGO was mentioned, but I always got better grades when I took garbage
and recycled it.  But then, that was my professors!  YMMV.

>> I would love it if the browser builders would implement HTML properly.
>> They have enough problems without experimental RFCs.

> *sigh* That ain't no lie. Thankfully Mozilla is doing a much better job 
> with HTML than anything so far. Maybe it'll convince MS to join the club. 
> (Hope, Pray)

Frame imbedded in a page.  I'd love that.

> The 90%'ers only get to the places because the world is catering to them. 
> Instead of bringing them up to a level where they can communicate 
> intelligently, we're "dumbing down the net" and making it into one big 
> AOL-like hell. (IMHO)

I'm not going that low ... but I am avoiding emails to webmaster and
errors in my logs.

>> By comparison any idiot and his grandma could drive a modern car (and
> > do by what I've seen on the roads).  The first cars could only be
> > driven by those with the knowledge to keep it running.

> So why then, using your logic, do I still have to go in and take a
> drivers test and get a license?

Because the cars are still not idiot proof.  IIRC I wasn't asked how
to start the car or how to fix the engine on the tests.  The closest
they came was to ask what to do when the vehicle was disabled (open
hood and trunk -- tie hankerchief to antenna).

The license is for identification and accountability.  I can't even
remember the last time I took a test to get one (1990?).

> Important lesson: Once you ACCEPT a URL, you're stuck with it forever.
> That's the problem. Where I work we actually have a database of old
> URL's that need to be redirected to new ones. If you accept the URL of
> the root domain now, you will NEVER be able to get it out of peoples'
> bookmarks. If you never allowed it to get there in the first place,
> you're fine. :)

And once RFC 2052 is implemented it won't make a difference.

>> Ahh, but telecom is so many things!  Let us know when the experimental
>> RFC2052 is in all browsers (including Lynx) and on the majority of
>> domains.  Until then I'll burn my root machine name any way I want.

> Nobody's telling you that you can't. :) I'm just saying that UNTIL we
> have a firm, accepted alternative, we should NOT encourage people to
> type in URL's minus the "www."

The nice things about preferences is that we each can have our own!

[In reply to Pat]

> Many configurations do not use index.html as the "default" page though. A 
> user who subscribes to the "unix way" (unlimited characters in file names) 
> who puts his page on an ISP's IIS server may find that the IIS server is 
> configured to look for INDEX.HTM ... and since his file is named 
> index.html, he has to specify it in the URL to get the page visible.

I have a whole list of files -- the first one found is used.  Some
directories use default.html some index.html, the last choice is
index.stm -- I have indexing turned off (no snooping!).


James Bellaire
http://tk.com/telecom/

(I'm half tempted to use server side scripts to applaud those who make
it there without the www. - but I can't be bothered.)

------------------------------

From: Harvey Taylor <het@despam.pangea.ca>
Subject: Re: www. Prefixes
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:01:11 -0700
Organization: Organization? What organization?!


Christopher Wolf wrote:

> Derek J. Balling wrote:

>>> [...]

>> Funny, my CS professors ingrained into ME the concept of GIGO, Garbage
>> In Garbage Out 

No. No. That is Garbage In, Gospel Out. 


<kachung>

-het

"The earth is the cradle of mankind, but we cannot stay 
          in the cradle forever." -Konstantin Tsiolkovsky

Harvey Taylor     het@despam.pangea.ca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:23:37 -0500
From: Mark J. Cuccia <mcuccia@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu>
Subject: Toll-Free Calls With a No PIC Selection


Evan L. Hill (evanh@primenet.com) wrote:

> What restrictions are placed on a line where no Long Distance
> Carrier has been selected?

> Are 1+800 and 1+888 calls allowed?

Calls to SACs 800, 888, 877, and the future 866, 855, 844, etc. have
NOTHING to do with the call-ING party's "PIC". The carrier(s) which
complete the call to the desired call-ED 800/888/etc. party is chosen
by that called party. That's the whole point of the competition and
portability regarding toll-free numbers. So, even if you have a
"no-PIC", you still can reach toll-free numbers. Even if you have
toll-restriction from telco (however some CPE toll-restriction devices
might not necessarily allow calls to 800/888/etc, and many of us know
how PBX/Cellular/COCOTs/etc. dis-route or restrict calls to
800/888/877/etc), you SHOULD still be able to reach toll-free
800/888/877/etc.


MARK_J._CUCCIA__PHONE/WRITE/WIRE/CABLE:__HOME:__(USA)__Tel:_CHestnut-1-2497
WORK:__mcuccia@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu|4710-Wright-Road|__(+1-504-241-2497)
Tel:UNiversity-5-5954(+1-504-865-5954)|New-Orleans-28__|fwds-on-no-answr-to
Fax:UNiversity-5-5917(+1-504-865-5917)|Louisiana(70128)|cellular/voicemail-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:59:22 -0700 (MST)
From: Evan L. Hill <evanh@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Toll-Free Calls with a No PIC Selection


> Calls to SACs 800, 888, 877, and the future 866, 855, 844, etc. have
> NOTHING to do with the call-ING party's "PIC". The carrier(s) which
> complete the call to the desired call-ED 800/888/etc. party is chosen
> by that called party. That's the whole point of the competition and
> portability regarding toll-free numbers. So, even if you have a
> "no-PIC", you still can reach toll-free numbers. Even if you have
> toll-restriction from telco (however some CPE toll-restriction devices
> might not necessarily allow calls to 800/888/etc, and many of us know
> how PBX/Cellular/COCOTs/etc. dis-route or restrict calls to
> 800/888/877/etc), you SHOULD still be able to reach toll-free
> 800/888/877/etc.

Thanks for the info.

It makes sense that the person footing the bill should have the pick of
the PIC.

I guess my question could have been worded a little more direct.  My
main concern was that I could use a pre-paid calling card on a line
with NO PIC selected.

I've been dispactched on cases of trouble where the long distance
carrier had not yet set the customer up in their programming, but
never was curious as to what restrictions were placed on it as far as
the toll free numbers were concerned.

By the way, it was good to communicate with you again.  I think I sent
you some dial number cards a couple years ago for an old telephone
that you have.


Evan

------------------------------

From: David Kritzberg <dbk227@email.msn.com>
Subject: Need Grunts in LA/San Fernando Valley Area
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:10:10 -0700


We are a small company looking for part time help on a couple of
telephone and data cabling jobs in the Northern L.A. area. Experience
preferred, but not necessary. Please direct all responses to:


David Kritzberg
Operations Manager
Inphonet Communication Services
661-947-5565
or
dbk227@msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:30:40 -0700
From: Linc Madison <LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com>
Subject: Re: Just a Question About New Area Codes


In article <telecom19.227.8@telecom-digest.org>, EclectiJim
<eclectijim@aol.comnsp> wrote:

> If it is due to the proliferation of cellular phones and other
> portables that new area codes are constantly being thrust upon us,
> couldn't these hand-helds be given area codes of their own? I've been
> caught twice now with personal and business letterhead, envelopes and
> fax cover sheets with a no-longer-valid area code.

If it were due to the proliferation of mobiles that we needed so many
new area codes, then putting those mobiles into a separate area code
would be a good solution.

But it isn't.

By far the main reason that we are having so many splits and overlays
is that we are introducing local service competition for ordinary
"wireline" service in a numbering scheme that is still designed for a
local monopoly.

Putting all the cellular phones and pagers and whatnot into a separate
area code really doesn't help all that much.

What we DESPERATELY need to do is to change to a system where we no
longer assign a block of 10,000 numbers to one company in one rate
center.  There are over 100 companies certified to offer local service
in California.  If each of them had one entire prefix in each rate
center in the state, California wouldn't have 25 or 41 area codes, but
something more like 150 or 200 area codes.

See <http://www.LincMad.com/whysomany.html>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:42:59 -0700
From: Linc Madison <LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com>
Subject: Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California


In article <telecom19.228.7@telecom-digest.org>, Steven Lichter
<stevenl11@aol.comstuffit> wrote:

> These proposals would make it much more clear whether a number was
> local or toll (as well as increasing the local calling area to a more
> reasonable radius), and give consumers a tangible benefit in exchange
> for the inconvenience of an overlay.

> Why not just go back to step and SAT ACCESS.  

SAT ACCESS?  What are you referring to?

> There is no need for overlays, what they are doing now could be fixed
> by just adding a single digit to the phone number and or the area code
> as most of the rest of the world is doing now. The PUC says that is
> what is being planned by the NPA people in the future, just do it now.

Fine.  We'll add the $150,000,000,000 cost to your personal phone bill.
Would you like to pay that in one lump sum, or in three convenient
monthly installments?  Oh, and that's only counting the costs to the
network itself, not the customer equipment that is instantly obsolete.

Oh, and if we add the digit at the end, it doesn't even help at all!
The only way it helps is if we *prefix* existing seven-digit numbers.

> The baboons that thought up overlays have no idea what is going on. I
> suspect that they don't even know how to use a phone, or have someone
> else do it for them as they swing from tree to tree!!!!

On the contrary.  They know exactly what is going on, and they know
quite well that overlays cost far, far, far less than a premature
cutover to longer numbers.

See <http://www.LincMad.com/whynot8.html>

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jul 1999 23:22:25 -0400
From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine)
Subject: Re: Freedom From Spam at Last!
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA


TELECOM Digest Editor Noted:

> Something I do not understand about the Bright Mail service is what
> are they doing I cannot do for myself with various mail filters in
> place?

Bright Light has geeks on duty 24/7 looking at stuff that arrives from
spam traps and updating the filters in real time.  It's an incredibly
expensive, brute force approach to spam filtering, and the fact that
people are willing to pay for it shows how bad the spam problem has
gotten.

Bright Light must be doing OK -- according to today's Wall Street
Journal, BL's head bid $53,000 in a charity auction for the right to
push five Silicon Valley software biggies into the pool.


John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869
johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, 
Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail

------------------------------

From: Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.chinet.com>
Subject: Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers?
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:37:12 -0500
Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server


> People staked claims based on the authority of the King of England or
> the King of Spain or the Oklahoma Territory.  There's a huge chunk of
> land that was GIVEN to people simply for staking a claim on it.  The
> people of the United States decided that it was in the public interest
> to give land to people who would go out and settle upon it.

Many people moved out West in the early days because the were unable
to obtain the land they needed out East; too much of it was held out
of productive use.

Originally, western land was of negligible value.

> Likewise, the people of the United States decided that it was in the public
> interest to give portions of the radio spectrum to people who would go out
> and use it.

You defend this?

> Also, the phrase, "as long as I ... repay society for the value
> bestowed on the parcel that I didn't create" is nonsense.  You are
> under no obligation -- legal or natural -- to in any way "repay
> society" for the increase in value of your property because someone
> else built a shopping mall or a freeway or hatever, near your
> property.  You simply reap a windfall, at least on paper.

Exactly. Good summary of the major flaw in the world's economy.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:52:33 -0400
From: Gary Novosielski <gpn.NOSPAM@techie.com>
Subject: Re: The Crisis at Pacifica Radio


TELECOM Digest Editor <ptownson@telecom-digest.org> wrote in Vol 19 #225:

> Its easy for me to sit here and wish a plague on both their houses;
> let them eat each other inside-out until the powerless employees
> have all but given up and Pacifica is left with a reputation that
> renders them totally impotent in the process. I am sure the
> federal government is enjoying watching it all unravel also. 

Easy for you, perhaps, because you do not have a Pacifica station in
your area.

I'm fortunate to live within the primary signal area of WBAI in New
York (99.5 MHz).  It is difficult to describe the sense of "ownership"
felt by listeners of these stations, but it's more than just
psychological.  We do, in fact, pay for the station and keep it on the
air from our own pockets.  We also pay the salaries of the Pacifica
Board of Directors, but there is no accountability in return, and that
is what this dispute is really about.  In fact, most of those people
you call employees (who can just go work somehwere else if they don't
like it) are actually unpaid volunteers who produce programming at
Pacifica because there *is* nowhere else where it would be broadcast.

Pacifica stations are different from most "public" stations in that
nearly all their income comes from us, the individual listeners.
There is essentially no corporate underwriting and a pittance of a
grant from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, when some
right-wing Senator isn't finding a way to get it withheld this year or
next.  Our stations don't get grants from Mobil, or Archer Daniels
Midland, or the Chubb Group of Insurance Companies.  As a result, they
can report on the murders committed by oil companies in Nigeria, on
the collusion between government and industry in bioengineering our
food supply, and on why the U.S. has no national health care system
for its own citizens.  No other outlet from ABC to ZDTV has that kind
of freedom.

If the recent rightward lurch of the Board goes unchecked, Pacifica
becomes just another NPR, bought and paid for by American business,
and unable to run a critical story about anything anyone might
actually need to know.  We already have an NPR.  Then we'd have two,
or maybe one and a half.  No great advantage.

But if we lose what Pacifica has historically represented, it's no
exaggeration to call it the extinction of free speech on the American
airwaves, and the completion of the corporate takeover of what was
once public property.

More info is available at <http://www.savepacifica.net/>.


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: You quote me above from my first mention
of this last weekend. Please also see my later comments. Unlike yourself
I've never been particularly enamored of Pacifica; I've found them in
most cases far, far to the left of myself. I have in the past enjoyed
hearing some of their programs, and you do not really need to have any
particular radio station close-by these days, just listen to them on
the internet -- as can be done with Pacifica. I quite agree with you
that there is a need for programming like theirs but now I am beginning
to wonder if they were *for real* all these years or just making a
nice presentation intended to attract some percentage of the listener
base and get money. I guess I shouldn't talk or criticize them; I have
no idea (a) where their heads are at, (b) what condition they are in
financially or (c) what sort of other influences are at work. I know
so little about the corporation that I really have no right to be
critical. Observant perhaps, but not judgmental. It is hard not to see
or observe that something has gone terribly wrong in Berkeley between
Pacifica and the community which considered KPFA to be its 'voice'.

But something has gone terribly wrong here on our Internet in the past
few years also ... your mention above of 'once Pacifica becomes another
NPR it will complete the corporate takeover of what was once public
property' is reminiscent of what is happening on the Internet. I do
not expect to see any public service or non-profit organizations left
here after perhaps another four or five years. You will begin to
see larger and larger, more garish than ever corporate web sites,
major ISPs and government sites, with fewer and fewer small non-profit
sites and virtually no small independent ISPs. 

You will eventually see less and less of Usenet as the major players
refuse to handle traffic not 'authorized'. The large corporations will
decide that someone has to pay for it, and no one will able to do
that, and the large corporations won't be about to pay for it. You
will see rules put into place about email that not only have an effect
on spam, but will also serve to put most of the legitimate mailing
lists under. After all, my legitimate mailing list is your spam, and
vice-versa. I already have had a harder time in the past year with the
mechanics of this mailing list than ever before. I am always getting
bounced mail back from one site or another with a notation 'we do not
accept spam at this site'. 

Have you heard the news that AOL is now giving *TOTALLY FREE* service
in Europe? I guess they are going to try Ted Vail's routine for awhile
and drive the other ISPs over there out of business. AOL is going
to crush anyone in Europe who gets in their way until they have total
control, then of course the subscription and usage costs will go back
to 'normal'. When AOL wanted to start their new search engine service
awhile back, they found that some woman in New York had a web site
name they wanted, so they went to the registrar and just said take it
away from her and give it to us ... you will see a lot more of that.
I think you will see a rule in the next year or two in the process of
'reforming' the domain name conventions which says that if an 'estab-
lished corporation' demonstrates a need for a particular domain name,
the individual using it will be required to give it up. AOL has now
already set the precedent on that. 

It will become so expensive and rough for owners of small web sites
like mine and/or mailing lists and newsgroups that most of them will
vanish. After all, why do you need to read news in Usenet when you 
can get a much more sanitized version and advertisments to read with
it by going to a designated commercial site? 

Of course if you agree to sanitize your presentation and meet accepted
corporate standards, then some NPR-like sponsor will pay all the bills
for you. I've been *extremely* fortunate to keep ITU all these years,
and I've been extremely fortunate to keep LCS/MIT as a base of operations,
and I do mean extremely in both cases. In the Brave New World of the
Corporate Internet, most of us are going to be left behind. You watch
and see. There won't be room for any of this kind of thing over the
next few years on the net. 

So, how can I criticize Pacifica for the changes they are undergoing
when I don't know what caused it. Maybe they just got hungry, had
little or no money and did what they had to do to get money. I get
sort of hungry some days myself, but I like to think I have principles
about me. I'll give Pacifica the benefit of the doubt and say they have
principles also, and that things just didn't 'work out' as they wanted.
PAT]

------------------------------

From: Betty Cockrell <Betty.Cockrell@billingconcepts.com>
Subject: Assignment of Country Code for Palestine
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:08:06 -0500


I am trying to get some information on the country code assignment for
Palestine.  Has one been assigned yet?


Thanks.
 
------------------------------

From: mattack@area.com (Matt Ackeret)
Subject: Re: A Week We Won't Forget!
Date: 20 Jul 1999 16:14:18 -0700
Organization: Area Systems in Mountain View, CA - http://www.area.com


In article <telecom19.230.2@telecom-digest.org>, the moderator wrote:

> visit http://telecom-digest.org/camelot-on-the-moon.html  I hope you 
> will do so today or tomorrow during this 30th anniversary observance
> of 'one small step for man; a giant leap for mankind'.    PAT]

Egads, another argument along the lines of the millennium one (though
there is no true argument in that case, there is in this one).

"One small step for [a] man, one giant leap for mankind."

Neil Armstrong said recently that he hopes that people put the
bracketed [a] in their quotes, to state that it should be there.
Without the 'a', it is grammatically incorrect, because 'man' without
an article means mankind.

Check 
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/ap/science/story.html?s=v/ap/19990717/sc/apollo_anniversary_10.html

for more info


mattack@area.com


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Thanks, and I stand corrected. I knew
the correct quote also but it slipped past me. Regards "A Week We
Won't Forget" I got some email from my brother a couple days ago who
somehow stumbled across  http://telecom-digest.org/camelot-on-the-moon.html 
and he told me he learned something about the telecommunications
challenge involved in that affair which he had not known before. I
think I will leave the page up for a few more days in case anyone who
wishes to do so has not yet seen it. Maybe I will even leave this
whole site up for a few more days and see how I feel by this time
next week. I admit to a bit of depression this evening however.  PAT]

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple
From: davidll@toadEXTRASTUFF.net (David Lee)
Organization: hah!
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:38:14 GMT


roy@endeavor.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) wrote in <telecom19.234.3@telecom-
digest.org>:

> tls@rek.tjls.com wrote:

>> Have you tried other DSL providers?  They can typically deliver DSL
>> service to everywhere Bell Atlantic can, and some places where they
>> can't.

> If BA owns the local loops, how can other providers get me service?
> If there's other ones to try, I'd love to hear about them.  Nothing
> would make me happier than dumping BA.

They colocate in BA's central offices; around here Covad appears to be
very agressive, getting their DSL equipment installed in BA's
buildings before BA does. My ISP offers DSL using Covad; a quick look
shows BA to be cheaper BUT you'd best call 'em to get the real price.


Dave

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #238
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Wed Jul 21 15:19:34 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA04398;
	Wed, 21 Jul 1999 15:19:34 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 15:19:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907211919.PAA04398@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #239

TELECOM Digest     Wed, 21 Jul 99 15:19:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 239

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea (Barry Margolin)
    Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea (nospam)
    Re: Freedom From Spam at Last! (Jack Decker)
    Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers? (Linc Madison)
    Re: No PIC Selection Question (Linc Madison)
    Re: A Week We Won't Forget! (John D. Sneed)
    Re: A Week We Won't Forget! (Donald E. Kimberlin)
    Re: A Week We Won't Forget! (Matthew Black)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barry Margolin <barmar@bbnplanet.com>
Subject: Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea 
Organization: GTE Internetworking, Cambridge, MA
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:26:49 GMT


In article <telecom19.237.4@telecom-digest.org>, Lauren Weinstein
<lauren@vortex.com> wrote:

> Any system that introduces a new centralized point for attack or
> failure needs to be very carefully scrutinized -- especially if it is
> likely to attract huge volumes of e-mail traffic very quickly.  A
> third party POP e-mail proxy service effectively doubles the places
> where things can go wrong -- or where different privacy policies and
> reactions/responses could come into play involving the same e-mail:
> the user's "real" ISP and the proxy service.

Bright Light is hardly the first to introduce centralized mail
routing.  You can go to HotMail and configure it to access all your
POP servers, so that you can use their web interface to read your mail
(in case you prefer it to a regular mail client, or you're behind a
firewall that has an HTTP proxy but can't pass POP3 through).

As others have said: what's the alternative?  ISPs aren't providing much
spam blocking, and it's a PITA to do it yourself.  How would you architect
an independent service like Bright Light without having the mail routed
through their server?


Barry Margolin, barmar@bbnplanet.com
GTE Internetworking, Powered by BBN, Burlington, MA
*** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.

------------------------------

From: nospam@elmhurst.msg.net (nospam)
Subject: Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea
Date: 20 Jul 1999 23:25:53 -0500
Organization: MSG.Net, Inc.


In article <telecom19.237.3@telecom-digest.org>, Jack Decker
<jack@novagate.REMOVE-THIS.com.content.net> wrote:

>> The problem doesn't take a masters degree in Internet engineering to
>> understand.  To use their service, you have to route ALL of your
>> inbound e-mail through Bright Light servers.  Your POP account
>> accesses Bright Light, then they login to your ISP to pick up your
>> mail.  It passes through Bright Light, and then to you.

What's worse, in order for this to work you MUST reveal your pop account
password to Bright Light, and every time you use the service your account
password is passed in cleartext across the internet. Most likely the ISP
allows you to use this same password for dialup, ftp, shell, etc.

At any ISP that cares one iota about security, the first rule of passwords
is 'Never reveal your password to anybody' (or any service!)

The second rule is 'Never store passwords in cleartext'. In fact, every
system I have configured, at a half dozen ISPs and even more corporations,
stores the password encrypted on the server- even the ISP doesn't know your
password.

Bright Light contravenes both rules.

> But in any case, I don't see where this presents any greater risk than
> using a large ISP. 

In terms of the password, it's a huge risk because your password has to
cross the public internet in cleartext, rather than just an ISP's intranet.

Before you say 'but BrightMail is secure!' take a close look at the
number of remote root exploits for Solaris systems in the last couple
of years, especially ones running Sendmail ...

>> From both a Privacy and Risks standpoint, it's hard to imagine a
>> system more primed for potential trouble.  Bright Light's talk of
>> highly scalable systems notwithstanding, ANY centralization of e-mail
>> handling systems in this manner, funneling in e-mail from numerous
>> ISPs, represents an immense target for all manner of mischief--even
>> more attractive to problems than the largest individual ISPs.  Systems
>> failures and overloading can still happen.  Hackers can target the
>> facilities.

> And why is that any more of a risk if you use Bright Light than if you
> have an account on one of the major ISP's?

Bright light is a huge beacon to hackers: It yells 'Get passwords into
many different ISPs in one convenient place!'

> So you have a problem with how they do things -- very simple -- don't
> use their service!  But until something happens to make me believe
> otherwise, I think this is one of the best free services to be offered
> on the 'net in many months!

I have a problem with how they do things, as a system administrator I
block Bright Light and all similar services from any POP server under
my control.  Any user who gives out their password to ANY 'untrusted
third party' has to call to find out what their password has been
changed to, or in a corp environment, has an interesting conversation
with their supervisor.

>> The fundamental problem is having the
>> full text of users' total incoming e-mail passing through a
>> centralized third party e-mail service outside of the users' direct
>> control or affiliation.

> Since when did the average user have any "control or affiliation" over
> whatever part of the Internet their e-mail passes through now?  Seems like
> if this is a "fundamental problem", it's a problem of the Internet as a
> whole, and many ISP's in particular.

Corporate mail servers. There are thousands of corporations with
internal mail servers that are POP-accessible from the outside (not
that I encourage doing so, but it's a fact).

> But as long as we are talking simply "potential"
> problems here, I'm not going to lose any sleep over them

>> I'd recommend thinking long and hard
>> before participating, as an end user, in any third party service that
>> asks you to route all of your incoming e-mail through them.  Even with
>> the best of intentions (and I assume these on the part of Bright
>> Light), and even with a "free" service, the price is much too high.

Forget email -- think passwords.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:43:49 -0400
From: Jack Decker <jack@novagate.REMOVE-THIS.com.content.net>
Subject: Re: Freedom From Spam at Last!


On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:01:12 -0400, Pat wrote:

> Something I do not understand about the Bright Mail service is what
> are they doing I cannot do for myself with various mail filters in
> place? Or are they aiming at a segment of the netizens who do not yet
> understand or wish to know how to filter their own mail? By filtering
> it myself, I think I have one less privacy concern to worry about,
> namely the people at Bright Mail snooping around into the mail.  

While John R. Levine answered this rather nicely, I will just add that
over the course of time I had added literally HUNDREDS of rules to my
e-mail program to catch and filter out spam.  Problem was that no
matter how I tried, some spam still got through, and some "good"
messages wound up in my trashcan.  Not only that, but it was having a
significant impact on my system performance, taking several seconds to
decide what to do with each new incoming e-mail message. I finally
more or less gave up on trying to filter it here, because (at least in
the e-mail program I use) there is no way to deal with spammers who
use something unintelligible in their From address (something like
z53a2vb7@ab27qwx2h4.com).  I'm assuming that Bright Light has a much
more intelligent filtering program that can (at the very least) look
at the "Received" lines, check them for validity, and compare them to
a database of known spammers.

I've been "on the net" for several years now and the idea of setting
up filters is not a new one to me, but setting up effective ones that
catch most of the spam and none of the "good" messages is still
apparently beyond my capabilities.  I'd hate to think what the task
must be like for the "average" user (someone who is not a programmer,
and whose first exposure to the net was through AOL or something like
it).  We'll see how using Bright Light's service works out -- I'm sure
if there are problems, they will come to light sooner or later.

As I noted earlier in my reply to Lauren, anyone who has privacy
concerns is perfectly free not to use the service, or even (if they
have the ability) to create some other method of spam eradication that
works as well and that does not have the same "potential" privacy
concerns (and that hopefully doesn't task your system resources too
much).  I personally have my doubts that anyone's going to step up to
the plate and offer something like that, at least not for free.


Jack
(To send me private e-mail, make the obvious modification to my return
e-mail address).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:32:39 -0700
From: Linc Madison <LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com>
Subject: Re: Snooping OK on Pager Numbers?


In article <telecom19.234.4@telecom-digest.org>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.chinet.com> wrote:

> If you want to be a member of my fan club, get the application from
> Linc Madison; he's the president.

Why, thank you.

> Lovely. I never said I don't have the right to exclusive use of a
> parcel of land, as long as I paid for it and repay society for the
> value bestowed on the parcel that I didn't create. (Land has value due
> to location. A location has value due to infrastructure, natural
> features, and what has generally been built in the area. What I do
> with my own land doesn't raise the value of the specific parcel but
> contributes to the value of the general area.)

Now, think real hard, Adam.  How much of the privately held land area
of the United States was INITIALLY purchased at fair market value?

People staked claims based on the authority of the King of England or
the King of Spain or the Oklahoma Territory.  There's a huge chunk of
land that was GIVEN to people simply for staking a claim on it.  The
people of the United States decided that it was in the public interest
to give land to people who would go out and settle upon it.  Likewise,
the people of the United States decided that it was in the public
interest to give portions of the radio spectrum to people who would go
out and use it.

Also, the phrase, "as long as I ... repay society for the value bestowed
on the parcel that I didn't create" is nonsense.  You are under no
obligation -- legal or natural -- to in any way "repay society" for the
increase in value of your property because someone else built a shopping
mall or a freeway or whatever, near your property.  You simply reap a
windfall, at least on paper.


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: You made such a good point there, and 
beat me to the punch, really. I was going to make the same basic
response to Adam. 150 years ago -- especially in the western area of
the USA -- if you settled in some area with a lot of unoccupied land
and built a home there and started caring for the land, or farming it
or whatever, it was yours, period. You didn't 'buy' it from anyone,
you just settled there. There were many raffle contests held by the
government awarding huge tracts of land. In many instances, your
'property' was as far as your eyes could see in any distance. My
great-grandmother's sister (who I guess would have been a great-
aunt of mine) was born according to her birth certificate in the town
of 'Tulsa, Indian Territory' ... which today we would call Tulsa, Okla-
homa. As a small girl, she and her parents lived on some land that
her parents had been 'awarded' by the government in return for a promise
to do farming there. How the business of 'real estate' got started in
this country was those early settlers passed the land on to their
children and grandchildren who then decided to sell it and live else-
where, etc, and the land began changing ownership on a frequent basis.

The aforementioned great-aunt later married into a family known as
Rogers and one of her Rogers in-laws had a son by the name of William,
or 'Will' for short. This resulted in later years that I became around
a fifth-cousin -- give or take once removed -- to Will Rogers, the
somewhat famous American comedian and commentator from much earlier
in this century. And good old cousin Will -- I never met him in my
life -- explained very succinctly just how things work in the United
States today. He said if you want get rich, buy some land. The reason
is, they aren't making any more of it. What there is is all there ever
will be, but our population growth puts an ever-growing price tag
on what little of it there is.   PAT]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:56:18 -0700
From: Linc Madison <LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com>
Subject: Re: No PIC Selection Question


In article <telecom19.233.3@telecom-digest.org>, Evan L. Hill
<evanh@primenet.com> wrote:

> What restrictions are placed on a line where no Long Distance Carrier
> has been selected?

> Are 1+800 and 1+888 calls allowed?

Generally, yes, as are 1+877 toll-free calls.

> My long distance carrier now charges $3.00 per month.  I normally do
> not make over $15.00 worth of calls per YEAR.

> I'm tired of hearing about everyone's 'calling plan' to save money.
> How about the 'Zero Calls-Zero Dollars' calling plan?

There's no such thing.  The FCC has ordered that your chosen
long-distance company will now pay a flat monthly fee to subsidize your
local service.  This was one of the worst FCC rulings in a long time. 
If you want to make the flat monthly price of local service more
closely reflect the flat monthly cost of providing the service, then
put that through as an increase in the basic monthly rate; don't filter
it through an extra layer of accounting.

> I was thinking of either changing carriers, or dropping it altogether
> and using pre-paid calling cards (if this is even possible).

If you do drop it altogether, your local carrier will bill you directly
for a monthly fee.  However, it's significantly lower than $3/month.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 02:56:58 -0400
From: John D. Sneed <fuzzy@fisisoft.com>
Organization: Medium Rare Cafe/Full Information Software, Inc./TESLA, Inc.
Subject: Re: A Week We Won't Forget! 


Thanks to David Chessler for sending me several items on the moon
landing, July 20, 1969.  There is one moment that night that I
remember that made a tremendous emotional impression on me, and I hope
those of you whose e-mail addresses I have "lifted" from what David
sent me will not resent my intrusion, for this nugget is, I think,
worth preserving among those who are interested.

It concerns the only really stupid question I recall hearing Walter
Cronkite ask.  That evening, one of the people he interviewed about
the momentous event was Robert A. Heinlein, the dean of science
fiction writers.

"Uncle Walter" asked Robert Heinlein if this was an important day in
human history, and Heinlein replied:

"Well, let me put it this way.  We should call this Day One of Year
One."

Cronkite was at a momentary loss for words, and it brought tears to my
eyes.  Now we are at Day One of Year Thirty-One, and the race is still
stuck on Sol III.  Sad ...


John Sneed

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:19:08 -0400
From: Donald E. Kimberlin <dkimberlin@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: A Week We Won't Forget!


Apropos of your summary thought, I heard snippets of discussion
on NPR Radio while driving around yesterday, describing how Apollo had
included planned missions to go at least as far as Mars -- by Apollo
25, as I recall.  Apparently there are some books out detailing debate
of those times in Washington, and how, by what seemed to me a sort of
political atrophy, continued space voyages were suspended.  Now, we
don't seem to have the political will to restart them.

Perhaps there's more to be found on the NPR website.  Sorry, but I'm
off on a full day of business today, so I can't get into it at the
moment.  Just wanted to advise anyone who might be able to check it out
about that potential info.


Don Kimberlin


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Don Kimberlin is the person who wrote
the text for http://telecom-digest.org/camelot-on-the-moon.html which
describes the challenges faced in telecommunications on that never-to-
be-forgotten voyage. I wonder if I will see in my own lifetime space
travel as a routine thing? Some of the distances of travel however are
so huge that it would take years of travel to reach those points. I
guess I can dream about it and wonder what it would be like. That's 
about all I can do.  PAT]

------------------------------

From: black@csulb.edu (Matthew Black)
Subject: Re: A Week We Won't Forget!
Date: 21 Jul 1999 14:39:10 GMT
Organization: Your Organization


In article <telecom19.238.12@telecom-digest.org>, mattack@area.com says:

> "One small step for [a] man, one giant leap for mankind."

> Neil Armstrong said recently that he hopes that people put the
> bracketed [a] in their quotes, to state that it should be there.
> Without the 'a', it is grammatically incorrect, because 'man' without
> an article means mankind.

Looking back to that amazing event, the entire news media misquoted
Armstrong's famous statement because they quoted a NASA press release
rather than the astronaut.  Armstrong flubbed the script.  He was
quoted in last week's {Newsweek} that he knew it was necessary to say
something important for the world and that's how he came up with the
famous line.  Hmm ... now HE wants to rewrite history.


   ----------------------------(c) 1999 Matthew Black, all rights reserved--
matthew black                   | Opinions expressed herein belong to me and
network & systems specialist    | may not reflect those of my employer
california state university     | 
network services SSA-180E       |             e-mail: black at csulb dot edu
1250 bellflower boulevard       |   PGP fingerprint: 6D 14 36 ED 5F 34 C4 B3
long beach, ca 90840            |                    E9 1E F3 CB E7 65 EE BC

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #239
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Wed Jul 21 17:09:10 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA08909;
	Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:09:10 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:09:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907212109.RAA08909@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #240

TELECOM Digest     Wed, 21 Jul 99 17:09:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 240

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Berkeley, CA Based Firm Dials Up Concept of Master Phone Numbers (Tad Cook)
    Lucent/MIND Press Release (Andrea Dray)
    Feature Group D, Call Processing Help (rashid5730@my-deja.com)
    ANACs in Bay Area (djpoopoo@my-deja.com)
    Recording ADPCM Files (ctiguy@my-deja.com)
    Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple (David B)
    Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in Calif (Gerry Belanger)
    Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems (Fred R. Goldstein)
    Re: Wireless Solution (Eric Chamberlain)
    Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free Numbers? (Greg Monti)
    Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free Numbers? (Christopher W. Boone)
    Re: Yet Another 'Back Hoe' Telecom Outage (Christopher W. Boone)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Berkeley, CA Based Firm Dials Up Concept of Master Phone Numbers 
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:09:36 PDT
From: tad@ssc.com (Tad Cook)


By George Avalos, Contra Costa Times, Walnut Creek, Calif.
Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News

Jul. 21--BERKELEY, Calif.--Staying in touch may become simpler. An
East Bay company's breakthrough means people would have to remember
only one number for all their phones.

The high-tech boom has enabled people to communicate just about
anytime and from any place, using many kinds of devices. But the
explosion of wireless phones, home businesses and the Internet also
means that people have a bunch of phone numbers that they have to
track.

If the technology devised by Open Telephone Network Inc., or OTelNet,
pays off, people will be able to use a single master phone number for
all of their phones. This also may help ease the accelerating
proliferation of new areas codes, prefixes and numbers, a problem that
is especially acute in California.

"My home phone is in the 925 area code, my wireless phone has 510 and
my office phone is in the 415 area code," said Jay Morrison, managing
partner with Newbury Ventures, which has invested in OTelNet. "And not
too long ago, all of these were 415."

Berkeley-based OTelNet has devised a combination of software and
communications gear that can ratchet up the intelligence of the
nation's telephone networks. Pacific Bell's system, for example, would
be able to route a call to a master phone number. The customer would
be able to decide ahead of time which phone would receive the calls to
the primary number.

"This will create simplicity," David George, vice president of
marketing with OTelNet, said Tuesday. "You can have one phone number
that is your personal phone number. You get one bill from one service
provider." People would be able to collect all their messages from one
machine. OTelNet hopes to ship products to large phone companies
starting in September.

This is a promising market, industry insiders say, since the phone
number crisis is acute. Federal Communications Commission Chairman
William Kennard reckons that the nation could literally run out of
phone numbers within 16 years under current conditions. Plus,
consumers have become weary of the constant addition of area codes and
prefixes.

Still, OTelNet has to overcome a number of obstacles.

More than a few big companies may decide they want a piece of the
action.  OTelNet, a year-old start-up that began operating only in
1998, might run up against giants such as Lucent Communications or
Cisco Systems and the like. Its prospects against major players could
be uncertain.

And OTelNet would have to sell its technology to the nation's Baby
Bells and other big phone carriers, which often are not particularly
nimble.

"This technology could fly, since it certainly sounds practical," said
Michael Murphy, principal owner of the Half Moon Bay-based California
Technology Stock Letter. "But a lot of companies have broken their
picks trying to do business with the Baby Bells."

Key players at OTelNet have backgrounds in the telephone industry or
at the university. The company's chief executive officer, Mohammad
Kazerouni, is a former telephone executive who once headed development
of advanced technologies at Pacific Bell. Two other founders with
technical backgrounds -- Aleks Gollu and Farokh Eskafi -- hail from
Partners for Advanced Transit & Highways, a Richmond-based research
center established by UC-Berkeley.

OTelNet's technology sprung from a university-affiliated research
effort to develop a web of intelligent highways along which cars could
cruise on auto-pilot.

"The know-how we developed over the years at PATH and the university
is what enabled us to build this system," said Gollu, OTelNet's vice
president of engineering.

The highway technology created by the UC-Berkeley research center
allows a wireless communications network to keep track of many cars at
the same time and guide their movements on an intelligent
freeway. Similarly, the advanced telephone system, whose heart is a
powerful database, can keep track of millions of phones and which ones
should be receiving phone calls.

"The intelligence in the phone network has to remain in sync to make
the correct decisions about how to connect phone calls," Gollu said.

And OTelNet believes phone companies can deploy its technology without
having to charge an eye-popping amount of money for people who want the
service.

Prior to OTelNet's breakthrough, installations of the necessary
equipment would have cost $5 million to $40 million at each major
phone center. (Pac Bell, for example, has two such large centers.)
OTelNet believes it can charge only $500,000 to $3 million, depending
on the sophistication of the equipment. That means a phone company
wouldn't have to charge $50 to $60 a month; it probably would be able
to levy a fee of $2 to $5 a month on people who want the single-number
service.

Customers today can sign up for services such as Wildfire, or a
competing system from Lucent, that allow a caller to dial into a
single phone number.  But Wildfire, for example, is essentially an
automated secretary and the system has to dial every one of a
customer's phone numbers separately until it can find the recipient of
a call. OTelNet's system can locate a recipient immediately.

The technology also could allow phone companies to distribute new phone
numbers at a much slower pace, since many customers would need only one
number for multiple phones.

"This certainly can make a big contribution toward solving the number
shortage," Morrison said.

------------------------------

From: andrea dray <andrea@mindcti.com>
Subject: Lucent/MIND Press Release
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:45:40 +0300


LUCENT TECHNOLOGIES AND MIND ANNOUNCE AVAILABILITY OF HIGHLY SCALABLE,
REAL-TIME BILLING IP TELEPHONY SOLUTION

For Release: Wednesday, July 21, 1999

Murray Hill, N.J.. and Yokneam, Israel -- Lucent Technologies (NYSE:
LU) and MIND today announced the industry's first real-time IP
telephony solution that combines the MIND-iPhonEX IP Telephony Billing
system and the Lucent PacketStar Internet Telephony System (ITS).

This Lucent/MIND solution will enable service providers to offer their
customers a complete IP telephony solution that includes a
high-quality Internet telephony server and value-added pre-paid
billing services, including the issuing of pre-paid calling cards, in
addition to post-paid services.

"MIND and Lucent have been working together to provide the IP
telephony industry with a total solution," said Monica Eisinger,
President and CEO of MIND.  "Combining the two systems is the key for
existing carriers to commence large scale deployment and enables
next-generation telcos to launch a carrier-grade VoIP service.''

The PacketStar ITS enables service providers to offer toll-grade
quality phone-to-phone, fax-to-fax and PC-to-phone services over the
Internet.  When the PacketStar ITS is combined with the MIND-iPhonEX
Billing solution, service providers will have a scalable, integrated
billing solution allowing them to handle up to millions of customers
making thousands of simultaneous calls.  For carriers looking for
multiple VoIP platforms, Lucent has announced plans to make the
PacketStar ITS interoperable with its market-leading MultiVoice for
MAX 6000 and carrier-class MAX TNT VoIP solutions.  These systems have
also been integrated with MIND's real-time MIND-iPhonEX Billing
solution.

"Now, with the MIND-iPhonEX real-time billing solution and Lucent's
PacketStar ITS and MultiVoice for MAX 6000 and MAX TNT solutions,
network service providers worldwide can offer customers the most
sophisticated carrier-grade, real-time VoIP billing solution," said
Lov Kher, general manager PacketStar Internet Telephony Solutions.
"With these sophisticated VoIP solutions, service providers can also
offer additional IP telephony services such as real-time billing,
enabling them to bill for calls simultaneously."

Lucent Technologies, headquartered in Murray Hill, N.J., designs,
builds and delivers a wide range of public and private networks,
communications systems and software, data networking systems, business
telephone systems and microelectronic components. Bell Labs is the
research and development arm for the company. For more information on
Lucent Technologies, visit the company's web site at
http://www.lucent.com or for more information about the PacketStar ITS
visit http://www.lucent.com/dns/products/its_sp.html.

MIND, the market leader for VoIP billing, supplies solutions for
billing, accounting and management for Internet telephony, switches,
Internet-based services and data.  With over one hundred and twenty
customers worldwide, MIND has the largest install base in IP telephony
billing.  MIND-iPhonEX deploys a carrier grade billing system
supporting millions of customers, that provides a scalable, highly
reliable solution.  For information on MIND and its products visit the
company web site: http://www.mindcti.com


For additional information contact:
Stephen Loudermilk
Lucent Technologies 
Phone: 908-953-7514 
Pager:  800-759-8888, pin 1277163
sloudermilk@lucent.com

Barbara Frank
MIND
Phone: +972-4-993-6666
barbara@mindcti.com

PacketStar, MultiVoice and TNT are trademarks of Lucent Technologies.

------------------------------

From: rashid5730@my-deja.com
Subject: Feature Group D, Call Processing Help
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:51:07 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


I have just moved to a new department which requires lots of
call processing knowledge.

Like,  what is:
Feature group d, a,b,c
Dial number plan
ANI, KP, ST
ISDN, PRI
CAS
Switches like DMS 100, 250
DID, two stings

These are the things I am having problems with I have read some
document but understood little I need a document or a web site which
has in depth information on the above terms Please if someone can
guide me.


Thanks,

Rashid

------------------------------

From: djpoopoo@my-deja.com
Subject: ANACs in Bay Area
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:59:13 GMT
Organization: The Company


Does anyone know the working ANACs for San Francisco to San Jose?
That would be 415, 650 and 408 area codes.  I can also provide a list of
CLLI codes if that helps anyone.


Thanks,

MS

------------------------------

From: ctiguy@my-deja.com
Subject: Recording ADPCM Files
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:52:03 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


We've recently started using dialogic equipment in our IVR systems and
have run up against one small stumbling block ... that is the ability
to actually create the voices scripts in an ADPCM format and have them
sound reasonable when played over the phone. We've tried using
software to convert WAV to 6kbit/s ADPCM but the result is very poor
after playing on the phone. We're currently running an app on a
dialogic card to do our recordings but this is fairly cumbersome and I
don't even want to think about recording music over the phone.

I've looked at the Bitworks Audio works card as well but I'm concerned
that it only runs in DOS and Win95 (at some point we're going to go
NT) and has no real api to allow third party control (I'd like to
build a Voice prompt maintenance system around it to facilitate
maintenance of our IVRs).

So the question finally is ... does anyone know of a way to create
ADPCM sound files that sound good when played back over phone
equipment. I expect a hardware card would be the way to go, something
that can accept line-in input although if someone know of a software
package that can convert from WAV to ADPCM and take into account the
phone limitation thats playing the sounds ... that would be good too.


Thanks for your help.

------------------------------

From: DavidB <davidby*NOSPAM@banet.net>
Subject: Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 07:44:55 -0400
Organization: Global Network Services - Remote Access Mail & News Services


Thor, 

I live in Manhattan and obviously have BA telephone service. I switched
from AT&T/Worldnet as ISP a year ago after AT&T introduced 150 hours per
month limit on their 'unlimited' service. I switched to BANET since in
reality I get IBMNET service without the hour limit (100) of IBM. BA has
now, since June, introduced also 150 hours per month limit and I am
considering my options. 

Our building (175 apartments - coop) is fed telephone service through
a fiber optic cable from their CO to the basement of our building
terminating in an Alcatel SLC from where it is copper loops to the
apartment. Until BA will install special MUX cards in the Alcatel
Litespan 2000 we cannot get ADSL from any one. But the Litespan will
be upgraded soon (so they promise).

Other then that I have NO relations with BA.

I still think that where one can get BA ADSL it is a better overall
option.  I cannot see how a service based on three or four players
(BA-COVAD or Northpoint-middleman in many cases-ISP) could be superior
to pure BA service.  BA price also appear to be the cheapest. I stand
to be corrected on this.

On behalf of our coop Board of Directors I deal with BA engineers
regarding telephone and broadband service to our building and all my
interfaces with them were pleasant and professional and I found them
cooperative although of course one cannot not to come across the
serious problems of a big beaurocracy. 


David

> David, I note that your email address is at "banet.net".  Do you work
> for Bell Atlantic, or are you a customer?  If the latter, have you
> actually tried any other carrier's ADSL offering, or are you speaking
> solely on the basis of your positive experience with Bell's offering?

------------------------------

From: wa1hoz@mail2.nai.net (Gerry Belanger)
Subject: Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:30:31 GMT


In article <telecom19.238.7@telecom-digest.org>, Linc Madison
<LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com> wrote:

> In article <telecom19.228.7@telecom-digest.org>, Steven Lichter
> <stevenl11@aol.comstuffit> wrote:

>> Why not just go back to step and SAT ACCESS.  

> SAT ACCESS?  What are you referring to?

He probably meant SATT, the common moniker for the old GTE Automatic
Electric electro-mechanical CO switch.  I think it was Strowger (or
Semi-) Automatic Toll Ticketer.  We built an ANA for those beasties.
I even got to visit the ones in Lafayette IN, and Ft Dodge IA.


Gerry Belanger, WA1HOZ                      wa1hoz@ct2.nai.net
Newtown, CT                                 g.belanger@ieee.org

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:52 EST
From: FGOLDSTEIN@wn1.wn.net (Fred R. Goldstein)
Subject: Re: DSL vs. Cable Modems


In issue 252, Thor Lancelot Simon writes,

> Most performance problems with cable modems seem to stem from two
> causes, probably operating in combination in many real-world systems:

>	2) The people who did the link-layer protocols didn't understand
>	   how TCP/IP worked, and basically managed to totally break it
>	   by introducing a pathological condition.  It's the classic
>	   issue of running TCP over a reliable link-layer with even a
>	   moderate bandwidth-delay product:  the link layer tries to be
>	   "smart" and retransmit packets it knows were lost, which
>	   makes TCP's timers not work, leading to synchronization of
>	   TCP timers throughout the system and massive retransmission
>	   storms.  See Karn's work on this topic based on the reverse-
>	   engineering of his own cable modem.  This is truly idiotic and
>	   of course the modem manufacturers will be loathe to admit
>	   that they screwed up and fix things...

That may be true of some vendor's product.  But it is not true of
either the LANcity modems that MediaOne is using, or, more
importantly, of the MCNS DOCSIS standard that cable modem vendors are
moving towards.  I don't know what RCN in NYC has; up here, they're
using Hybrid Networks, and moving to Cisco's DOCSIS-compliant family.
DOSCIS does not do L2 retransmission.  It looks a lot like Ethernet,
though of course its internal contention method is a lot different.

RF is a different story -- you have to be careful around the wiring,
frequency choices, etc., because this is the "analog world".  Nothing
that can't be made to work well, but improper connectorization, cheap
cable and other impairments are often noticeable.  Not that telephone
lines aren't also prone to sloppy workmanship.

------------------------------

From: Eric Chamberlain <echamberlain@telogix_remove_me.com>
Subject: Re: Wireless Solution
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:47:57 -0500
Organization: Planet Digital Network Technologies


You may want to look at getting cell phones for everyone.  You can get
phones that look like a normal phone, but have an antenna on them and
are cellular or PCS.  Or there are devices that are convert the two-wire
phone line to a cellular/PCS/GSM signal.


Eric Chamberlain    http://www.telogix.com/
Vice President / CTO    Phone: 217-355-4400
Telogix Systems, Inc.    Fax: 217-355-4700


Jonathan <jonathan@nospam-syntel.com> wrote in message news:
telecom19.223.10@telecom-digest.org...

> I am working with a small business that needs seasonal telecoms service
>  -- data and voice, October-December.  They are located rather far from
> the nearest telco central office, so DSL is not available and T-1 is
> quite expensive.

> It occurred to me that this might be an excellent candidate for a fixed
> wireless arrangement.

> Do any LECs offer this?  Are there other economical solutions?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 00:39:02 -0500
From: Greg Monti <gmonti@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free Numbers?


On 19 Jul 99, Bob Goudreau <goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com> wrote:

> Since calls to NPAs 800, 888, 877, etc. cost
> the caller the same amount (zero) as does a local call, should
> toll-free numbers be dialable as straight 10D (no 1+ required,
> although it should still certainly be permitted) in such areas?

> How about it, readers who live in Maryland, Atlanta, Denver, Dallas,
> etc.:  can you dial toll free numbers using just 10D, or does only
> the 1+10D format work?

In Dallas (local provider: SW Bell) 1+10 digits is required for toll
free calls.  This may have a historical basis having to do with the
transition from 7D to 10D on local calls.  Any 3-digit combination
that was once a prefix that could be dialed with 7 digits now has on
it a recording telling you to dial the area code plus 10 digits for
local calls.  For example, if I were to dial 991-XXXX I'd get a
recording requesting a redial with 10D.

But, you might ask, does 800 fall into this category?

It certainly does!  800 is a legitimate prefix in area code 214.
Serves the Market Center area just northwest of downtown Dallas.  It
was, at one time, dialable with just 7 digits, as 800-XXXX.  Now, it's
214-800-XXXX, of course.  But if you attempt to dial 800-555-1212
without 1+, it dumps to the "re-dial with 10D" recording after you
dial 800-5551.

By the way, 900 is a legitimate prefix in 817.  My ISP, Mindspring,
has a POP on 817-900-1500.


Greg Monti  Dallas, Texas, USA
gmonti@mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~gmonti

------------------------------

From: Christopher W. Boone"<cboone@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free Numbers?
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:35:22 -0500
Organization: Clear Channel-Dallas (KDMX/KEGL) Engineering Department


No we cannot ... 1+ is used for all 8xx calls ... the 800 NXX is used
in Dallas as a local exchange (though with 10D dialing, that would
prevent callers from dialing 800-xxxx but rather NPA-800-xxxx!)
But then SWB also uses 1411 for DA .. .NOT 411 (STUPID!!!)


Chris
Chief Engineer
Clear Channel Radio (KDMX/KEGL)
Dallas

Bob Goudreau wrote:

> How about it, readers who live in Maryland, Atlanta, Denver, Dallas,
> etc.:  can you dial toll free numbers using just 10D, or does only
> the 1+10D format work?

------------------------------

From: Christopher W. Boone <cboone@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Yet Another "Backhoe" Telecom Outage
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:38:22 -0500
Organization: Clear Channel-Dallas (KDMX/KEGL) Engineering Department


Ronald B. Oakes wrote:

> I have often stated that the biggest threat to telecommunications
> today is the backhoe.

Nope, its the backhoe "operator" ... they may have less intelligence
than the backhoe <smirk>


Chris


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: The sad fact is that much of the
underground utility service in big cities is essentially uncharted
after years and years of happenstance record keeping. You can ask
for information before digging from the Utility Locator Services
such as JULIE which serves the Chicago area and sometimes their
records are correct; sometimes they are wrong. In Chicago for
example, in the oldest area of the city which is roughly the area
immediatly south and west of the present downtown, around the Clinton/
Harrison Sts area there have been occassions when street excavations
were necessary for one reason or another and they've found dozens
of underground conduits which they were unable to identify as to
their purpose. The newer stuff is all on computerized records and
maps, but the very oldest can sometimes only be deciphered when
experts spend some time reviewing underground utility maps in the
office at City Hall used for that purpose. And then, they hope that
someone in the middle or late 19th century was *precise* in their
measurements of exactly how many feet in one direction or another
the pipe or conduit would extend, which direction it went from there,
and which buildings it serviced, etc. 

The general rule 'ask before you dig' is a good one and should be
an absolute requirement of all contractors, land developers, etc.
But in one case about a year ago, a contractor doing excavation work
on the near west-side of Chicago ruptured a large underground pipeline
of the People's Gas Company. It caused an explosion in which no one
was killed but considerable fire damage resulted to a Chicago Housing
Authority high rise apartment building next to it. The contractor
insists to this day that the plans to excavate there were approved by
all the utility services. People's Gas insists they told him it had
to be a few feet away. The contractor insists his contact from the
gas company told him there was 'nothing in that area at all'.

Had you seen it that day, it was incredible. Flames shooting fifty
feet in the air out of the ground, exactly next to the wall of the
large highrise apartment building. I tend to believe the contractor's
version only because the fire burned out of control for about three
hours until gas company employees were able to locate -- merely able
to locate! -- a way to shut off that main line serving thousands of
residences and business places in the neighborhood. The high rise of
course had to be totally evacuated; several floors were damaged as
a result.

Then about fifteen years ago, there was the broken water main which
nearly ruined several millions dollars in exhibits at the Chicago
Historical Society. The Society building is located in Lincoln Park
on the north side of town in another older neighborhood. A water
main running underground through the park ruptured, of all times, at
4:45 on Friday afternoon. By then, everyone from City Hall was on the
way out the door for the weekend; many water distribution people had
already left. They had to get people via pager and cellular phone in
their cars on the expressway going home, etc, turn them around, get
them back to the water department and city hall so they could look
up the ancient -- and I mean ancient! -- old maps and figure out how
to cut the water supply off to that particular line. Meanwhile the
water kept flooding everywhere; that area of Lincoln Park had two
or three inches of water all over the ground everywhere by that
point and it was approaching the Historical Society building, where
anxious employees, who themselves would have gone home at 5 pm if
this had not happened were rushing frantically around the basement
grabbing all the exhibits and carrying them off to higher ground.

Given the present state of our infrastructure in the United States
these days, i.e. bridges about to fall down that there seems to be
no money available to replace; underground pipes that are on average
almost a hundred years old; (I understand New York City has some
underground infrastructure which is closer to 150 years old); I
think we are headed for disaster sometime soon.  In the case I
mentioned above in Lincoln Park in Chicago, when they finally got
the water shut off their estimate was we had lost about a million
gallons of water. The pipe was patched -- that's all they ever do
with those old pipes is patch them; to replace them totally would
cost too much money -- and water service restored at 3 AM, about
ten hours later. But, because the pipe had drained, and because in
the process of turning the water back on they did not SLOWLY open
the service allowing the onrush of water to push the air out of the
line ahead of it, guess what? About a hundred yards down the line
the pipe ruptured again from the sudden, instant pressure given to
it. So off went the water again, for another day or so.

Sometimes the backhoe people are not at fault. Sometimes it is due
to our poor record-keeping process, and the fact that some of it is
so old the slightest bit of disturbance causes it to fail.  PAT]    

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #240
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Wed Jul 21 20:40:20 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA17171;
	Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:40:20 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:40:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907220040.UAA17171@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #241

TELECOM Digest     Wed, 21 Jul 99 20:40:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 241

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: Just a Question About New Area Codes (Art Kamlet)
    Re: Yet Another "Backhoe" Telecom Outage (Art Kamlet)
    Rate Centers (was Re: Just a Question About New Area Codes) (Dan Burstein)
    How to Identify a Wireless Number? (Admin)
    Re: Assignment of Country Code for Palestine (Mark J. Cuccia)
    Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea (John Eichler)
    Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea (Steve Winter)
    800, 888, 877, 866, 855, 844, 833, 822, 811, ??? (Seymour Dupa)
    Re: ANACs in Bay Area (MMX)
    Your Voicemail Service? (Andy Berry)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: kamlet@mail1.infinet.com (Art Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Just a Question About New Area Codes
Date: 21 Jul 1999 17:06:01 -0400
Organization: InfiNet
Reply-To: kamlet@infinet.com


In article <telecom19.238.6@telecom-digest.org>, Linc Madison
<LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com> wrote:

> What we DESPERATELY need to do is to change to a system where we no
> longer assign a block of 10,000 numbers to one company in one rate
> center.  There are over 100 companies certified to offer local service
> in California.  If each of them had one entire prefix in each rate
> center in the state, California wouldn't have 25 or 41 area codes, but
> something more like 150 or 200 area codes.

> See <http://www.LincMad.com/whysomany.html>

I haven't read your linked note, so you might have covered this, but
there is a proposed solution (more than one proposal) and it is number
pooling.

Someone, however, would have to be the number pooling administrator
for each NPA and the LECs and IECs have been so successful getting
necessary yet policially acceptable charges placed on customer's bills
(e.g., E911 services, the Gore tax; Number Portability surcharge, ...)
that they just might be dragging their heels until they get paid to
let Number Pooling go through.  -- Art Kamlet Columbus, Ohio
kamlet@infinet.com

------------------------------

From: kamlet@mail1.infinet.com (Art Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Yet Another "Backhoe" Telecom Outage
Date: 21 Jul 1999 17:20:28 -0400
Organization: InfiNet
Reply-To: kamlet@infinet.com


About thirty years ago Ohio Bell (and perhaps many other telcos) found
a neat way to drastically reduce the number of line cutting outages.

When new neighborhoods sprung up, they began laying their cables in
the same ditch, right along side the electric company's lines.

As Columbus Southern Power trenched the route and buried power cables,
right behind them was Ohio Bell burying their cable and closing the
trench.

Anyone who used to thumb their noses at maybe cutting into Ohio Bell
cables, suddenly became very scrupulous when drilling near the power
lines!

Ohio Bell claimed there was no effect on signal in the cables, and
they reduced cable cutting by over 90%.

Here in Columbus, in the past ten days, there were two well publicized
incidents of cutting into gas lines or water lines that had not been
Call-ed before you dig.

One was Monday at the airport, about 200 feet from the terminal.

A worker drilling for a new garage hit a gas line.

And a few days earlier,  Arnold Schwartzennager and Sylvester
Stallone came here to open a new Planet Hollywood type movie and
restaurant, and workers decided to install velvet ropes and metal
stantions for the ropes, so they could give the red carpet (and
velvet rope?) treatment -- and cut a line.  One source speculated
the workers were not going to dig a deep hole so didn't need to 
call before digging.

So far no one hit an electric power line though (although a gas line
is no fun at all.)


Art Kamlet   Columbus, Ohio    kamlet@infinet.com  

------------------------------

From: dannyb@panix.com (Danny Burstein)
Subject: Rate Centers (was Re: Just a Question About New Area Codes)
Date: 21 Jul 1999 17:56:38 -0400


In <telecom19.238.6@telecom-digest.org> Linc Madison
<LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com> writes:

[snip for space: Linc described that the major cause for NNX
exhaustion is the need for each CLEC to get lots and lots of prefixes,
and that moving mobiles, etc., to their own areacode wouldn't help]

> What we DESPERATELY need to do is to change to a system where we no
> longer assign a block of 10,000 numbers to one company in one rate
> center.  There are over 100 companies certified to offer local service
> in California.  If each of them had one entire prefix in each rate
> center in the state, California wouldn't have 25 or 41 area codes, but
> something more like 150 or 200 area codes.

There are a couple of exceptions that prove the rule (I've always
wanted to use that phrase ...). The five boroughs of NYC are a single
rate zone.  Until a decade ago that meant one area code, 212, and that
initially included pagers and cell phones.

Later on the City was split three ways, with Manhattan [1] keeping
212, the other boroughs moving to 718, and pagers/cellulars (and a
couple of similar services) using an overlayed 917. (We've just
recently added a wireline overlay to 212, namely 646. I suspect that
if we could have held out another year or so, i.e. once cable and *dsl
for internet, various other options for voice and fax, and further
refinements in switching ... would have reduced the need for multiple
phone numbers, we would have been able to keep the earlier
arrangement).

[1] well, that is if we leave out that sliver that the Bronx keeps
thinking they can steal away ...

Since the whole city is a "local" call for most subscribers, there's
no need for CLECs to gobble up multiple NNXs. Alas, for now they still
gobble an entire NNX, but that's better than taking many of them.


Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
		     dannyb@panix.com 
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:12:24 -0400
From: Admin <Antilles@AnteLink.com>
Subject: How to Identify a Wireless Number?


Dear Pat,

Many of those on the list will soon come to realize that calls to
wireless phones overseas are rated at a cost much higher than a land
line call to the same country. The separate "land line" and "wireless"
rates for the same country are just beginning to show up on carrier
rate sheets.  A typical example is with a 3rd tier carrier that we
use.  Their rate/minute to a U.K. land line is $.10/minute.  Their
rate/minute to a U.K. wireless phone is $.31/minute. (!)

For internal billing purposes, my firm in the US needs to identify
whether numbers that we call overseas (011+) are land line or
wireless.

France and Germany have handled this beautifully: Any number in France
that is dialed 011336 etc. is a wireless call and any number in
Germany that is a 01149171 etc., 01149172etc. or 01149177etc. is
wireless. But the situation in other countries is much murkier.

Do any of the listers have specific knowledge as to how wireless
telephone numbers (as opposed to land line telephone numbers) are
identified in Australia, Israel, Italy, Japan, Netherlands,
Switzerland, Spain, the U.K., Belgium, etc.?

As a side bar, you can begin to imagine the squawks that will be heard
when and if the FCC allows "caller pays" in the U.S.


Doug Terman
Operations Manger

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 15:09:41 -0500
From: Mark J. Cuccia <mcuccia@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu>
Subject: Re: Assignment of Country Code for Palestine


Betty Cockrell (Betty.Cockrell@billingconcepts.com) wrote:

> I am trying to get some information on the country code assignment
> for Palestine. Has one been assigned yet?

Yes. Sometime back in January 1999 (or even earlier in 1998?), various
news reports mentioned that the ITU did assign Country Code +970 to
Palestine (West Bank, Gaza, etc), SUPPOSEDLY to take effect in March
1999. I don't know if March was to be beginning of a permissive
dialing period, or if it were a "mandatory" date if the introduction
of +970 for Palestine were to be done on a "flash cut".

I don't think AT&T presently routes calls to Palestine dialed using
+970 (the code isn't yet in translations in my "homing" AT&T OSPS
switch, 601-0T in Jackson MS, JCSNMSPS06T - nor my "homing" AT&T #4E
switch in New Orleans, 060-T, NWORLAMA04T).

I don't know if MCI-Worldcom, (US)Sprint, etc., nor do I know if
AT&T-Canada, Stentor-Canada, Sprint-Canada -- via Teleglobe -- are
presently routing calls to Palestine as +970.

The Telcordia-TRA LERG doesn't yet indicate Country Code +970 as
having been assigned, though.

I ASSUME that calls to the Palestinian areas are still dialable using
+972 (Israel) plus specific "area codes" assigned WITHIN Israel, for
reaching the Palestinian locations.


MARK_J._CUCCIA__PHONE/WRITE/WIRE/CABLE:__HOME:__(USA)__Tel:_CHestnut-1-2497
WORK:__mcuccia@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu|4710-Wright-Road|__(+1-504-241-2497)
Tel:UNiversity-5-5954(+1-504-865-5954)|New-Orleans-28__|fwds-on-no-answr-to
Fax:UNiversity-5-5917(+1-504-865-5917)|Louisiana(70128)|cellular/voicemail-

------------------------------

From: John Eichler <jeichl@acxiom.com>
Subject: Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 15:12:46 -0500


Question: Are there any readily available e-mail servers out there
that permit a SSL link so that one's ID and password may be sent
encrypted?  Pat ... does yours?


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note:  http://telecom-digest.org/postoffice
does not have that capability. Sorry.  The passwords are not in clear
text, and relatively secure however. PAT]

------------------------------

From: steve@sellcom.com (Steve Winter)
Subject: Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:32:40 GMT
Organization: WWW.SELLCOM.COM
Reply-To: steve@sellcom.com


nospam@elmhurst.msg.net made some very strong points when he say:

> What's worse, in order for this to work you MUST reveal your pop account
> password to Bright Light, and every time you use the service your account
> password is passed in cleartext across the internet. Most likely the ISP
> allows you to use this same password for dialup, ftp, shell, etc.

> At any ISP that cares one iota about security, the first rule of passwords
> is 'Never reveal your password to anybody' (or any service!)

> The second rule is 'Never store passwords in cleartext'. In fact, every
> system I have configured, at a half dozen ISPs and even more corporations,
> stores the password encrypted on the server- even the ISP doesn't know your
> password.

> Bright Light contravenes both rules.

Ouch, that sounds like quite a valid condemnation of the service.   

You seem to have a lot of experience with email servers, what is the
practical difference between APOP and POP and which would you prefer
from a security point of view if you had both available?


Regards,

Steve

http://www.sellcom.com
Cyclades Siemens EnGenius Zoom at discount prices.
SSL Secure VISA/MC/AMEX Online ordering
Listed at http://www.thepubliceye.com as SELLCOM
New Brick Wall "non-MOV" surge protection

------------------------------

From: Seymour Dupa <grumpy@bigbird.en.com>
Subject: 800, 888, 877, 866, 855, 844, 833, 822, 811, ???
Organization: Exchange Network Services, Inc.
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:18:11 GMT


Mark J. Cuccia <mcuccia@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu> wrote:

> Calls to SACs 800, 888, 877, and the future 866, 855, 844, etc. have

 What's going to come after 811?

 When 800 got used up, instead of going to 888, 877, etc, they should
have gone to 801, 802, 803, ...


John

  If You Always Do the Things You've Done,
  You'll Always Have the Things You Got.


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I don't think the people living in 801,
802 and 803-land would would have liked that decision very much. After
the last available choices are used up in 811, hopefully we will have
gone to some entirely new numbering system.  PAT]

------------------------------

From: MMX <mmx@DELETEMEunibiz.net>
Subject: Re: ANACs in Bay Area
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:27:08 -0400
Organization: PLA914


djpoopoo@my-deja.com wrote in message:

> Does anyone know the working ANACs for San Francisco to San Jose?
> That would be 415, 650 and 408 area codes.  I can also provide a list of
> CLLI codes if that helps anyone.

(408):
760
940

(415):
200-555-1212
211-2111
2222
640
760-2878
7600-2222

Try them all, I found them in a list.


MMX

------------------------------

From: Andy Berry <ab3@flash.net>
Subject: Your Voicemail Service?
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:02:09 -0500


PAT,

A while back, you talked about a voicemail service you were using and
mentioned that you were happy and like their product.  I tried
searching the archives, but couldn't find the name of the company.
Could you give it to me?


Thanks,

Andy B.

Certainly. It is about time to put in a good word for them anyway. The
company is now called GST-Call America, in San Luis Obispo, California.
The product is known as MyLine.

They offer, for around ten dollars per month, an 800 number which is
completely user-programmable. You get three ways to forward your calls.
One is your number for 'priority' callers, those people who enter a
two-digit secret code while your outgoing announcement is being played.
Two is your number for all 'regular' callers, those people who will be
transferred to you automatically at whatever number you designate. Three
is your voicemail or other call-taking number if you do not respond at
your first two numbers. 

Actually, there is a fourth number; whatever number you wish your fax
calls to go to. If a fax machine calls your MyLine number, their switch
can detect this and the fax caller is routed into whatever number you
designate for that purpose. It, like your voice numbers, is programmable
at any time. 

The whole thing very closely resembles AT&T's old 'Follow Me 500' service
but it is less expensive, has quite a few more features available at
no extra charge, and does not carry the stigma i.e. difficulty in 
dialing that was associated with 500. I do not think for example that
500 was able to detect fax and send it to a different number. 

As an optional extra, you can have a 'regular' number tied in with it
such as mine, which is out of San Franciso, a 415 number, and there
are other California rate centers they use as well. So you can give
out the 415/408/805 version of your number or the toll-free version;
either way reaches the same results.  In addition to my 800 number
which I do not give out very often, I have a 415 number.

So you get a call via your 415 or 800 or whatever number and MyLine
answers it. Your personal greeting plays out and the system forwards
the call or fax to wherever you indicated. Programmed changes take
place immediatly. You do the programming by dialing your own number
(again, whichever version of it), entering your passcode during the
time your greeting plays out, and the system goes into maintainence
mode. 

Depending on how you program it, you can have all or some of your
calls go into voicemail. It can be voicemail of your choice, however
they do offer it on their end as well for a few dollars extra. 

Among the free services they offer (except for connection time) are
'virtual call-waiting' and 'three-way-calling'.  What virtual call-
waiting does is this: If you are on your MyLine number, either taking
a call or in maintainence mode or whatever, if another call comes in
and the system detects you are there already, it splits the connection
for a second, beeps at you and says, 'you have another call waiting'.
You can then dismiss the call you are on and take the second one, or
you can press a digit on the phone which will cause the first party
to go on hold and bring the second party on the line. By pressing
a digit on the phone you go back and forth between callers. 

You can also use MyLine for outgoing calls, avoiding calling card
surcharges and such. They charge 25 cents per minute of activity on
the switch, inbound, outbound, voicemail, maintainence mode, whatever.
To place an outgoing call from a payphone for example, dial into your
800 number, enter your passcode, when prompted then dial the ten digit
number desired. Its 25 cents per minute total, but they do pro-rate
the minutes somehow in smaller billing increments.

'Three way calling' mentioned above comes into play if you are making
an outgoing call and wish to consult with a third party or conference
the parties. You dial the first number, get connected, press a digit
on the phone to hold the party and make your second call, then either
press digits to go back and forth between callers or some other digit
to join the callers. Likewise if you are receiving an incoming call,
you can use the same procedure to consult or conference a third party.

To bypass high phone rates on hotel switchboards, call your 800 number,
enter your passcode and make your outgoing calls at 25 cents per
minute of switch time. You can also use MyLine from international points
to take advantage of US rates on international calls. Of course you
need to dial in via your 'regular' -- not toll free! -- number and
pay for a thirty second call which is long enough to enter your
passcode and tell MyLine to 'call me back now at (foreign country number)'
where it will ask for you by name/extension/room number when it
reaches the foreign switchboard. Obviously international calls cost
more than 25 cents per minute.

'Call Screening' allows you to decide whether to take a call or not.
When someone dials into your MyLine number, if you have call screening
activated (no extra charge) then MyLine asks the caller to please
speak his name. It then splits the connection, calls you at whatever
number, and has you listen to the recording of the person's name. If
you wish to accept the call you press a digit on the phone and it is
patched through. If you decline, you press another digit and MyLine
goes back to the other party and says you are not available (they were
sitting there hearing only dead silence all this time, they have no
way of knowing if you were located or not), and MyLine transfers the
caller to your voicemail, either the voicemail they operate if you
signed up for it or whatever number you designate.

You can also be talking to someone and transfer them into voicemail
in the middle of the conversation if desired. Maybe they want to 
leave some information you have no time for now, so you tell them
I will put you in voicemail, leave it all there. When finished they
press a key and come back to you. Likewise with a fax; you are talking
to someone who says he has a fax for you. You press a digit, push his
call to the fax line and it goes through that way.

MyLine from GST-Call America should not really be considered 'voicemail';
it is actually a complete telephone network with voicemail as one
part of it unless you want to use your own from elsewhere. Some users
in fact just have the 'voicemail' option (free, unless you point
it at the voicemail service they operate) point to a secretary in
an office, or a co-worker's desk, etc.

As I said above, its like AT&T's 'Follow Me 500' service but greatly
enhanced, less expensive and without 500's problems on company and
hotel switchboards, etc. Cost wise you are looking at about ten
dollars per month for the 800 number and a DID number to the switch
out of some California rate center, a few dollars more if you want
their voicemail attachment, and 25 cents per minute that the switch
is in use.  I use it for a modest number of outgoing long distance
calls, all my incoming voicemail, and my total bill is $40-50 per
month. They send a very detailed (five or six page analysis) billing
each month, and just automatically bill my credit card. 

I've used MyLine for a number of years with complete satisfaction. 
For maximum flexibility, I have my personal phone set for 'transfer
on busy/no answer' after four rings to my MyLine 800 number and
callers to either my private number, my 800 number or my published
San Francisco number converge on MyLine, which then (if priority
caller as per secret code during greeting) rings my cell phone, or
puts the call in voicemail (the one from MyLine). I also have my
cell phone programmed for 'transfer on busy/no answer' the same way.
All very convenient. 

You might like to look into it for yourself. I really couldn't be
more pleased. My total bill from them for last month was $38.67 which
involved about a hundred instances of using it to pick up messages,
receive short calls, and make a couple of outgoing more lengthy calls.

Contacts are Ernie Strong estrong@callamerica.com  800-541-6316 or
one of his associates. If you prefer, 805-541-6316 in San Luis Obispo.
You can tell them I referred you, even though they don't pay me to
advertise them. They did make a donation a few years ago.    PAT] 

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #241
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Wed Jul 21 22:03:28 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA20668;
	Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:03:28 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:03:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907220203.WAA20668@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #242

TELECOM Digest     Wed, 21 Jul 99 22:03:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 242

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: Freedom From Spam at Last! (Thomas A. Horsley)
    Re: Freedom From Spam at Last! (usbcpdx@teleport.com)
    Building an ISP - 1500' From the CO Boundry (Justa Lurker)
    Re: The Crisis at Pacifica Radio (Lisa Hancock)
    "*CD" Advertisement (Carl Moore)
    Re: Just a Question About New Area Codes (Ron Donnell)
    Re: 2000 Silliness (Keelan Lightfoot)
    Re: 2000 Silliness (Mark Brader)
    Re: 2000 Silliness (Greg Hennessy)
    Re: Century 21 (Matt Ackeret)
    Re: Century 21 (Neal Tucker)
    Re: Century 21 (Marvin E. Kurtti)
    Re: Century 21 (Linc Madison)
    Re: Century 21 (Christopher Wolf)
    Specifics on Romans' "Screw-Up" (was Re: Century 21) (Jack Hamilton)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tom.Horsley@worldnet.att.net (Thomas A. Horsley)
Subject: Re: Freedom From Spam at Last!
Date: 21 Jul 1999 19:34:30 -0400
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services


> I've been "on the net" for several years now and the idea of setting
> up filters is not a new one to me, but setting up effective ones that
> catch most of the spam and none of the "good" messages is still
> apparently beyond my capabilities.

My technique works well and is quite simple:

   1. Recognize mail coming in from mailing lists I know I'm on, and
      let it through.

   2. If the mail that's left doesn't have my actual email address
      anywhere in a To: or Cc: line, delete it.

That gets at least 80% of the spam, because 80% of the spammers out
there seem to use Bcc: to send all their bilge.

>>==>> The *Best* political site <URL:http://www.vote-smart.org/> >>==+
      email: Tom.Horsley@worldnet.att.net icbm: Delray Beach, FL      |
<URL:http://home.att.net/~Tom.Horsley> Free Software and Politics <<==+

------------------------------

From: someone@teleport.com 
Subject: Re: Freedom From Spam at Last!
Organization: As server security goes, it's as if NT wears a 'Kick me' sign.
Reply-To: usbcpdx.teleport.com@teleport.com ( at ) ( dot )
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 00:06:18 GMT


Someone far brighter than I wrote into his mail server a program which
'resolves' the address the mail was sent from with a DNS server -- and
if it is not a valid address for that IP address, out it goes into the
bit bucket.

Now, if Bright Light just did that and did not otherwise log or examine
the mail. that would be fine by me.

------------------------------

From: Justa Lurker <justalurker@telecom-digest.zzn.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:32:24 -0500
Subject: Building an ISP - 1500' From the CO Boundry


First - I apologize for the anomynity.  For confidentiality issues
I cannot reveal my real name or the name of the company I work for.

The Story:

We are desiring to set up an ISP in our local community.  We have
located a company that will provide a turnkey system for a price.

The problem we have is with location.  Our current location is 1500'
from the CO boundry.  If we were 1500' to the west we could get local
phone numbers in an exchange that is local to most of the population
of two counties.  In our current building we can only reach half of
that population (our county).  The dividing line is a county road --
both sides are in the same county, same state.

We would like to have the telephone company install the required 'two
county' lines on our neighbors property (with his permission).  We
would then extend the lines the needed 1500' to our main building.
The ISP equipment would be installed in the main building.

This is similar to the "tying lines together in a farmhouse" thread
from many years ago -- except this is on a grander scale.  We do not
intend to allow calls leak through -- they would all terminate on the
equipment in our office.

Note that we are unable to move the business the required 1500' -- and
if you follow the lines into our building we are actually served from
lines coming from the "foreign" area.  It is all based on technicalities!

Current costs for an FX line is around $180 per month.

And now the questions:

Is this so illegal that I shouldn't even be thinking it?
Would it be possible to 'rezone' our property to join our western
neighbors?
How much trouble would this be?  Anyone have experience doing this?
Any legal references that I can take to the boss?

TIA for your advice!


Justa Lurker

------------------------------

From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa Hancock)
Subject: Re: The Crisis at Pacifica Radio
Date: 21 Jul 1999 23:11:23 GMT
Organization: Net Access BBS


> I'm fortunate to live within the primary signal area of WBAI in New
> York (99.5 MHz).  It is difficult to describe the sense of "ownership"
> felt by listeners of these stations, but it's more than just
> psychological.  We do, in fact, pay for the station and keep it on the
> air from our own pockets.  We also pay the salaries of the Pacifica
> Board of Directors, but there is no accountability in return, and that
> is what this dispute is really about.

I presume when you say "we pay for the station" you mean by voluntary
donations.  If the station is no longer what people want, the donations
will dry up and the station will cease.  Thus the Board IS accountable
to its listeners since it's dependent on their donations to function.

Or, could it be that present listener donations are inadequate to
fund the network, and the network must change in order to survive?

> Our stations don't get grants from Mobil, or Archer Daniels
> Midland, or the Chubb Group of Insurance Companies.  As a result, they
> can report on the murders committed by oil companies in Nigeria, on
> the collusion between government and industry in bioengineering our
> food supply, and on why the U.S. has no national health care system
> for its own citizens.  No other outlet from ABC to ZDTV has that kind
> of freedom.

The above statement implies that conventional radio stations do not
have the "freedom" to report on corporate malfesance.

At our local US Steel mill, a worker was killed by the failure of
a known defective stairs.  This was widely reported, with emphasis
on "known defective", implying the company knew of a problem and
failed to do anything about it.  What the news media failed to
report was that the worker involved was supposed to be fixing the
stairs.

Then, TELECOM Digest Editor noted in response:

> But something has gone terribly wrong here on our Internet in the past
> few years also ... your mention above of 'once Pacifica becomes another
> NPR it will complete the corporate takeover of what was once public
> property' is reminiscent of what is happening on the Internet. [snip]

I was reading about the history of radio broadcasting, and back in the
1920s it was a lot like the Internet -- totally free and open.
Broadcasting needed regulation because the bandwidth was limited and
had to be shared.

Will the Internet need regulation?  It does have some serious problems
in that it escapes various laws and regulations established for
public safety over the last hundred years.  For example:

 --people can get prescription medication and health advice over
   the 'net.  Is it safe?  How does someone know who's on the other
   end of the transaction -- if the advice is sound, medicines genuine
   and safe?  And can people hurt themselves by bypassing safety rules
   on prescriptions?
 
 --The heavy anonymity of the 'net allows a great opportunity for
   fraud.  Normal consumer protection laws often don't apply or are
   difficult to enforce.

 --Unlike traditional publishing distribution, anyone can establish
   a web page and spread all sorts of misinformation, some of which 
   could hurt unknowing people.  Society has always had problems
   with such disseminators, but the Internet ease of start up makes
   it so much easier.

 --An anonymous web site could spread slander and libel, or encourage
   irresponsible behavior.  This is a problem now.  Do we really want
   to make it easy for social misfits to learn how to make bombs?

Many people are very happy the Internet is so "wide open", they think
it is healthier for society to have open discourse despite the
problems.  Well, many people wish we didn't have government regulation
either, and wish society was back say at the level of 1900, before
government really got into regulating commerce.  I think those people
need to review the social problems of that time to see why laws were
passed.


> I am always getting
> bounced mail back from one site or another with a notation 'we do not
> accept spam at this site'. 

What is the solution to this?  Should they remove spam blocks?
(I think they should go after spam senders.)

As to "corporate" involvement, is this a given?  There are plenty of
non-profit organizations.  And non-profit is not necessarily always
better than corporate.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:19:39 EDT
From: Carl Moore <cmoore@ARL.MIL>
Subject: "*CD" Advertisement


Has anyone else heard the "star CD" advertisement where you dial *23
regarding a song you just heard on the radio?

------------------------------

From: Ron Donnell <rpdonnell@att.net>
Subject: Re: Just a Question About New Area Codes
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:09:41 -0700
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services


Art Kamlet wrote:

> In article <telecom19.238.6@telecom-digest.org>, Linc Madison
> <LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com> wrote:

>> What we DESPERATELY need to do is to change to a system where we no
>> longer assign a block of 10,000 numbers to one company in one rate
>> center.  There are over 100 companies certified to offer local service
>> in California.  If each of them had one entire prefix in each rate
>> center in the state, California wouldn't have 25 or 41 area codes, but
>> something more like 150 or 200 area codes.

>> See <http://www.LincMad.com/whysomany.html>

> I haven't read your linked note, so you might have covered this, but
> there is a proposed solution (more than one proposal) and it is number
> pooling.

And some info on number pooling is available at http://www.ported.com/


Ron Donnell, Phoenix AZ -- rpdonnell@att.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:25:52 -0700
Subject: Re: 2000 Silliness
From: Keelan Lightfoot <keelan@mail.bzzzzzz.com>


You're forgetting that the significance of the year 2000 is not only
with humans. Computers care about dates just as much as we do
(probably more), and to them, the new millenium begins January 1,
2000. No one knows what will go wrong, and even the utility companies
have brocures that read somewhat like:

Will I have Electricity (Gas, Telephone service, etc.) on 1/1/2000?
And invaribly the answer is 'We can't be sure, and if something goes wrong,
it's not our fault, it's our suppliers. Oh, by the way, it may be a good
idea to buy a flashlight, radio, firewood, generators, etc.)

In this case, the year 2000 is _far_ more significant than the the
year 2001. It's effects may be far more noticable, and everyone,
regardless of religion, and which calendar they run by, may be
affected.

Besides, what kind of ring does year 2001 have?


Keelan Lightfoot

------------------------------

From: msbrader@interlog.com (Mark Brader)
Subject: Re: 2000 Silliness
Date: 21 Jul 1999 00:03:29 -0400


Joey Lindstrom writes:

> But under the system ol' Dennis set up, the assumption is that Jesus
> was born in the year A.D. 1, not 0.  Whether or not Jesus was actually
> born in that year is, today, not really that meaningful ...

True.  But just for the record, the year assigned the number 1 (A.D.)
was actually the supposedly first whole year when Jesus was alive --
that is, the year *after* his supposed birth.  No number was assigned
then to the year *of* his supposed birth, which was later called 1 B.C.


Mark Brader, Toronto, msbrader@interlog.com

------------------------------

From: gsh@mgfairfax.rr.com (Greg Hennessy)
Subject: Re: 2000 Silliness
Date: 21 Jul 1999 09:12:37 -0400
Organization: Tantalus Inc.


In article <telecom19.235.6@telecom-digest.org>, Joey Lindstrom
<Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU> wrote:

> But under the system ol' Dennis set up, the assumption is that Jesus
> was born in the year A.D. 1, not 0.

Err, no. Dionysius used "reignal years" as his counting, with 1 being
the first year of the reign. Dionysius thought Christ was born on Dec
25, 753 AUC (since the founding of rome). Dionysius associated 1AD
with the year 754 AUC, not 753.

------------------------------

From: mattack@area.com (Matt Ackeret)
Subject: Re: Century 21
Date: 20 Jul 1999 15:57:06 -0700
Organization: Area Systems in Mountain View, CA - http://www.area.com


In article <telecom19.235.5@telecom-digest.org>, Fred R. Goldstein
<FGOLDSTEIN@wn1.wn.net> wrote:

> Stick to your guns Pat, you're right.

> The calendar is like a decimal counter; each column gives rise to a
> name.  There's the units, the decades, the centures, and the millenia.
> Roll over a digit and the measurement-index changes.  Thus the decade
> of the '90s technically began in 1990 (although socially it was more
> like late '87).  And the millenium is in 2000, not 2001.

"The decade of the '90s" is a strange way to phrase it.  "The '90s",
meaning the 1990s, does in fact start on Jan 1, 1990, and go through
Dec 31, 1999.  That is _a_ decade, because it contains a full ten
years.

However, _the_ current decade doesn't end until the end of Dec 31, 2000,
the same time at which _the_ current millennium ends.

> However, there is a small self-proclaimed (erroneously) elite of
> pseudo-intellectuals who think that they're smarter than everyone
> else by insisting that the millenium rollover is in 2001.  This is the

No, it is a bunch of true intellectuals who can actually do math.  It
is really sad when even Marilyn Vos Savant has taken the stupid
people's side in this non-argument.  It's a non-argument because there
is no debate possible.  With the numbering system that is being used
to measure time, and the denotational meaning of "the next
millennium," the next millennium starts on Jan 1, 2001.  PERIOD.

Sure, the "odometer rollover" happens at the end of Dec 31, 1999.
That is a completely separate situation from the millennium.


mattack@area.com

------------------------------

From: ntucker@area.com (Neal Tucker)
Date: 21 Jul 1999 08:18:38 -0000
Subject: Re: Century 21
Organization: Area Systems in Mountain View, CA - http://www.area.com


In article <telecom19.232.6@telecom-digest.org> TELECOM Digest Editor
questioned:

> Doesn't this all come down to whether or not you can rightfully
> claim to be one year old on the day you were born?  PAT]

I'd say no.  It comes down to whether you claim the year numbers are
supposed to indicate how old the Lord is.  Most of the people
disagreeing with you seem to be saying that "year 1" is not when the
Lord is one year old, but the Lord's first year.  That makes the most
sense to me, as I'm currently in year 27 of my life, meaning I'm 26
years old and change.

Personally, I couldn't care less when the millenium ends or begins,
but there are so many anal retentive people in this world who are on
one side of the fence or the other that you can't even mention it
without triggering a discussion just like this one.  As fun as it is
to argue about, you can only do it so many times.


Neal


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Yeah, it has just about run out of
space around here also. I would say maybe another 10-12K of text
on the topic and that's it.   PAT]

------------------------------

From: mkurtti@hiwaay.net (Marvin E. Kurtti)
Subject: Re: Century 21
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 08:45:12 -0500
Organization: mk Computers


If you wait until 1 Jan 2001 to celebrate the new millenium, you've
missed the party.


Marv

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:21:31 -0700
From: Linc Madison <LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com>
Subject: Re: Century 21


In article <telecom19.235.5@telecom-digest.org>, Fred R. Goldstein
<FGOLDSTEIN@wn1.wn.net> wrote:

> Stick to your guns Pat, you're right.

Pat is unquestionably WRONG on one point.  There was no year zero, not
even retrospectively.  How much time passed between the date we now
refer to as July 1, 1 B.C., and the date we now refer to as July 1,
1 A.D.?  ONE YEAR.  Not (+1) - (-1) = 2 years, but only ONE year.

Personally, I wish we could just solve the whole mess by proclaiming
retrospectively the existence of the year 0.  Problem is, that would
mess up all those Roman history dates and things, as to what happened
in 44 B.C. or what have you.  Then we could declare that the first
millenium was the years 0 through 999.  But then again, the first
millenium B.C. would still be the years 1000 through 1, and we'd be
confused again.

> The calendar is like a decimal counter; each column gives rise to a
> name.  There's the units, the decades, the centures, and the millenia.
> Roll over a digit and the measurement-index changes.  Thus the decade
> of the '90s technically began in 1990 (although socially it was more
> like late '87).  And the millenium is in 2000, not 2001.

The decade of "The Nineties" began in 1990 and ends this year.  The
tenth decade of the twentieth century, however, began in 1991 and
will end on 12/31/2000.

Likewise, the Nineteen Hundreds will end 12/31/1999, and lots of
people will celebrate.  However, the Twentieth Century will not end
until 12/31/2000.

December 31, 1999, is the right date for the celebration, but it
ISN'T "the end of the millenium."  It's the end of the nineteen
hundreds.  It's the end of the millenium 1000 - 1999, just as 42
years ago was the end of the millenium 958 - 1957.

The root of the problem is that the calendar is NOT like a decimal
counter.  A decimal counter has a zero.  The calendar doesn't.  The
first ten days of the month are the first through the tenth, inclusive,
not the first through the ninth with the first "decade" of the month
getting shortchanged.

> However, there is a small self-proclaimed (erroneously) elite of
> pseudo-intellectuals who think that they're smarter than everyone
> else by insisting that the millenium rollover is in 2001.  This is the
> same crowd who probably thinks that a preposition is a bad word to end
> a sentence with.

Since you cannot come up with a valid factual argument, you resort to a
flawed analogy.

> The hyperurbanized millenium begins in 2001.  In the meantime, the hoi
> polloi and those of us who get the joke will all recognize that it's
> the rollover to 2000 that counts.  Even if the First Decade (1-9 CE)
> was only nine years long.  Programmers call it a fencepost error.

Fencepost error: exactly.  Saying that 2000 is the beginning of the new
millenium (or the new century, or the new decade) is a fencepost error.
The First Decade was 10 years long, the years 1 through 10, inclusive.
The First Millenium was 1000 years long, the years 1 through 1000,
inclusive.  The Second Millenium will have been 1000 years, the years
1001 through 2000.

In programming terms, if you want to count a thousand years (one
millenium), you could do it in a loop like this:

for (year = 1; year <= 1000; year++) { ... }

However, this loop -- the one that would give you a millenium change
at the year 1000, and later at the year 2000 -- has a fencepost error:

for (year = 1; year < 1000; year++) { ... }     (FENCEPOST ERROR)

You can't arbitrarily declare that the first (decade/century/millenium)
was short by a year, nor can you arbitrarily declare that the beginning
of the current era was the beginning of the year 1 B.C.  Both of those
are fencepost errors.

As was pointed out by other posters, the problem is that the year isn't
actually 1999.  It's 1999th.  That little "th" causes the problem.  The
year 1 wasn't the year that the Current Era was already a year old, it
was the first year of the Current Era.  As to the birthday analogy,
your FIRST year begins when you are born, and ENDS when you are one
year old.  Your FIRST birthday is the first day of your SECOND year of
life.  I am 35 years old, so I am currently in my thirty-SIXTH year of
life.  (I am in fact in the twelfth month of the thirty-sixth year of
my life, which means that my birthday is coming in less than a month.)


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Considering Linc's parenthetical remarks
at the close of his letter, I think we should all at this point stop
for a minute and wish him a happy birthday and our hopes that he has
at least another 36 of them. I'll start! Happy birthday, Linc!    PAT]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:51:58 -0500
From: Christopher Wolf <wolf@ti.com>
Organization: Texas Instruments
Subject: Re: Century 21


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: ... Calendars and years on the other hand
do not start with zero so we have that 'little problem' at the end of
only having 99 of whatever. PAT] 

Depends on how you count.  A decade runs from year 0 though year 9
(1980 -- 1989), and at least one document (referenced below) notes that
astronomers use a year zero, and astronomy is the basis of the calendar.
But since the modern calender (ignoring redesigns and shifts) wasn't
established until AD 523, doesn't that mean the next century does not
start until 2024 and the next millenium on 2524?  Holds about as much
water as anything else I've seen.

                ------------------------------
-W

 from: The Calendar FAQ
 http://www.pip.dknet.dk/~pip10160/cal/calendar20.txt
 
2.10. How does one count years?
 
In about AD 523, the papal chancellor, Bonifatius, asked a monk by the
name of Dionysius Exiguus to devise a way to implement the rules from
the Nicean council (the so-called "Alexandrine Rules") for general
use.
 
Dionysius Exiguus (in English known as Denis the Little) was a monk
from Scythia, he was a canon in the Roman curia, and his assignment
was to prepare calculations of the dates of Easter. At that time it
was customary to count years since the reign of emperor Diocletian;
but in his calculations Dionysius chose to number the years since the
birth of Christ, rather than honour the persecutor Diocletian.
 
Dionysius (wrongly) fixed Jesus' birth with respect to Diocletian's
reign in such a manner that it falls on 25 December 753 AUC (ab urbe
condita, i.e. since the founding of Rome), thus making the current era
start with AD 1 on 1 January 754 AUC.
 
How Dionysius established the year of Christ's birth is not known (see
section 2.10.1 for a couple of theories). Jesus was born under the
reign of king Herod the Great, who died in 750 AUC, which means that
Jesus could have been born no later than that year. Dionysius'
calculations were disputed at a very early stage.
 
When people started dating years before 754 AUC using the term "Before
Christ", they let the year 1 BC immediately precede AD 1 with no
intervening year zero.
 
Note, however, that astronomers frequently use another way of
numbering the years BC. Instead of 1 BC they use 0, instead of 2 BC
they use -1, instead of 3 BC they use -2, etc.
 
See also section 2.10.2.
 
It is frequently claimed that it was the venerable Bede (673-735) who
introduced BC dating. This is probably not true.
 
In this section I have used AD 1 = 754 AUC. This is the most likely
equivalence between the two systems. However, some authorities state
that AD 1 = 753 AUC or 755 AUC. This confusion is not a modern one, it
appears that even the Romans were in some doubt about how to count
the years since the founding of Rome.

------------------------------

From: jfh@acm.org (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Specifics on Romans' "Screw-Up" (was Re: Century 21)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 03:18:37 GMT
Organization: Copyright (c) 1999 by Jack Hamilton
Reply-To: jfh@acm.org


Carl Moore <cmoore@ARL.MIL> wrote:

> PAT wrote that the Romans had gotten things all screwed up regarding
> the calendar, which was indeed corrected by advancing the date 10 days
> in (Oct.?) 1582.  However, the screw-up wasn't very bad.  The calendar
> from the Romans is what we call the Julian calendar, and it assumed the
> year to be exactly 365 1/4 days long (which is still close enough to be
> taught to, say, an elementary school student).  The year is actually a
> little shorter (by about 11 minutes plus about 14 seconds), and the
> discrepancy added up to about 1 day every 128 years, and a result was
> that natural events were occurring earlier and earlier in the calendar.

Digital Equipment Corporation, which cared very much about accuracy in
its operating systems, put together a more detailed description of
western calendar systems in answer to a query from a customer about
"why OpenVMS incorrectly assumes that the year 2000 is a leap year."

You can find it at:

   <http://www.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=211801286&fmt=text>

I've also reproduced the text below. 

Incidentally, according to the Calendar FAQ at

   <http://www.pip.dknet.dk/~pip10160/calendar.html>

the Mayan calendar is slightly more accurate than the Gregorian
calendar; the URL also contains other interesting material, including
a list of the dates when various countries switched from the Julian to
the Gregorian calendar, an explanation of the slightly more accurate
leap year calculation used by the Greek Orthodox Church, and the
statement that the day added in a leap year is February 24, not
February 29.

Here's the text of the DEC explanation of leap years: 

                            D I G I T A L
                           SPR ANSWER FORM

SPR NO. 11-60903

           SYSTEM   VERSION   PRODUCT   VERSION   COMPONENT
SOFTWARE:  VAX/VMS  V3.2      VAX/VMS   V3.2      Run-Time Library

PROBLEM:

The LIB$DAY Run-Time Library service "incorrectly"  assumes  the  year
2000 is a leap year.

RESPONSE:

Thank you for your forward-looking SPR.

Various system services, such as SYS$ASCTIM assume that the year 2000
will be a leap year.  Although one can never be sure of what will
happen at some future time, there is strong historical precedent for
presuming that the present Gregorian calendar will still be in effect
by the year 2000.  Since we also hope that VMS will still be around by
then, we have chosen to adhere to these precedents.

The purpose of a calendar is to reckon time in advance, to show how
many days have to elapse until a certain event takes place in the
future, such as the harvest or the release of VMS V4.  The earliest
calendars, naturally, were crude and tended to be based upon the
seasons or the lunar cycle.

The calendar of the Assyrians, for example, was based upon the phases
of the moon.  They knew that a lunation (the time from one full moon
to the next) was 29 1/2 days long, so their lunar year had a duration
of 354 days.  This fell short of the solar year by about 11 days.
(The exact time for the solar year is approximately 365 days, 5 hours,
48 minutes, and 46 seconds.)  After 3 years, such a lunar calendar
would be off by a whole month, so the Assyrians added an extra month
from time to time to keep their calendar in synchronization with the
seasons.

The best approximation that was possible in antiquity was a 19-year
period, with 7 of these 19 years having 13 months (leap months).  This
scheme was adopted as the basis for the religious calendar used by the
Jews.  (The Arabs also used this calendar until Mohammed forbade
shifting from 12 months to 13 months.)

When Rome emerged as a world power, the difficulties of making a
calendar were well known, but the Romans complicated their lives
because of their superstition that even numbers were unlucky.  Hence
their months were 29 or 31 days long, with the exception of February,
which had 28 days.  Every second year, the Roman calendar included an
extra month called Mercedonius of 22 or 23 days to keep up with the
solar year.

Even this algorithm was very poor, so that in 45 BC, Caesar, advised
by the astronomer Sosigenes, ordered a sweeping reform.  By imperial
decree, one year was made 445 days long to bring the calendar back in
step with the seasons.  The new calendar, similar to the one we now
use was called the Julian calendar (named after Julius Caesar).  Its
months were 30 or 31 days in length and every fourth year was made a
leap year (having 366 days).  Caesar also decreed that the year would
start with the first of January, not the vernal equinox in late March.

Caesar's year was 11 1/2 minutes short of the calculations recommended
by Sosigenes and eventually the date of the vernal equinox began to
drift.  Roger Bacon became alarmed and sent a note to Pope Clement IV,
who apparently was not impressed.  Pope Sixtus IV later became
convinced that another reform was needed and called the German
astronomer, Regiomontanus, to Rome to advise him.  Unfortunately,
Regiomontanus died of the plague shortly thereafter and the plans died
as well.

In 1545, the Council of Trent authorized Pope Gregory XIII to reform
the calendar once more.  Most of the mathematical work was done by
Father Christopher Clavius, S.J.  The immediate correction that was
adopted was that Thursday, October 4, 1582 was to be the last day of
the Julian calendar.  The next day was Friday, with the date of
October 15.  For long range accuracy, a formula suggested by the
Vatican librarian Aloysius Giglio was adopted.  It said that every
fourth year is a leap year except for century years that are not
divisible by 400.  Thus 1700, 1800 and 1900 would not be leap years,
but 2000 would be a leap year since 2000 is divisible by 400.  This
rule eliminates 3 leap years every 4 centuries, making the calendar
sufficiently correct for most ordinary purposes.  

This calendar is known as the Gregorian calendar and is the one that
we now use today.  (It is interesting to note that in 1582, all the
Protestant princes ignored the papal decree and so many countries
continued to use the Julian calendar until either 1698 or 1752.  In
Russia, it needed the revolution to introduce the Gregorian calendar
in 1918.)

This explains why VMS chooses to treat the year 2000 as a leap year.

Despite the great accuracy of the Gregorian calendar, it still falls
behind very slightly every few years.  If you are very concerned about
this problem, we suggest that you tune in short wave radio station
WWV, which broadcasts official time signals for use in the United
States.  About once every 3 years, they declare a leap second at which
time you should be careful to adjust your system clock.  If you have
trouble picking up their signals, we suggest you purchase an atomic
clock (not manufactured by Digital and not a VAX option at this time).

                            END OF SPR
                            ----------

This is supposedly the first draft; the official version omitted the
reference to VMS 4, and the business about atomic clocks.  

OpenVMS has other problems; some of the routines accept only 4 digit
years, and Digital says "We expect this to be corrected in a future
release of VAX/VMS sometime prior to 31-DEC-9999".  Also, the field
used to store dates has a limited resolution; according to:

   <http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=352081583&fmt=text>

the combination of a 63-bit storage field and 100-nanosecond precision
means that the whole OpenVMS date scheme will collapse on 31-JUL-31086
at 02:48:05.47.  

This is, however, still an improvement over some versions of DOS and
Windows, which will start to collapse in less than six months. 


Jack Hamilton
Broderick, CA 
jfh@acm.org


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Has everyone had enough of this now?
Have we gotten all of this out of our systems that we might proceed
with some other topics?  If so, what shall we talk about next?  PAT]

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #242
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Thu Jul 22 06:14:17 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA03643;
	Thu, 22 Jul 1999 04:52:04 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 04:52:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907220852.EAA03643@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #243

TELECOM Digest     Thu, 22 Jul 99 04:52:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 243

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: Yet Another "Backhoe" Telecom Outage (Anthony Argyriou)
    Re: Yet Another "Backhoe" Telecom Outage (Adam Frix)
    Re:800, 888, 877, 866, 855, 844, 833, 822, 811, ??? (Judith Oppenheimer)
    Re: 800, 888, 877, 866, 855, 844, 833, 822, 811, ??? (Mark J Cuccia)
    Arkansas A.G. Moves Against American Tele-Network Inc. (Jim Haynes)
    Apple Introduces AirPort Wireless Networking (Monty Solomon)
    Apple and Akamai Create High Quality Network for Internet (Monty Solomon)
    Re: Building an ISP - 1500' From the CO Boundry (John R. Levine)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: anthony@alphageo.com (Anthony Argyriou)
Subject: Re: Yet Another "Backhoe" Telecom Outage
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 04:01:26 GMT
Organization: Alpha Geotechnical
Reply-To: anthony@alphageo.com


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: 

> The sad fact is that much of the
> underground utility service in big cities is essentially uncharted
> after years and years of happenstance record keeping. You can ask
> for information before digging from the Utility Locator Services
> such as JULIE which serves the Chicago area and sometimes their

[shuffled]

> The general rule 'ask before you dig' is a good one and should be
> an absolute requirement of all contractors, land developers, etc.

In California, it's USA (Underground Service Alert). One of their
numbers in Northern California is 1-800-642-2444. It is
_REQUIRED_BY_LAW_ to call them 48 hours in advance before digging in
public right-of-way or utility easements. USA is a subscription
service - the utilities pay USA, and USA notifies the appropriate
person at each utility at the location you're digging. I've gotten
lists of over 20 utilities in some locations in San Mateo and Santa
Clara Counties. (Did you know they pipe nitrogen all over Silicon
Valley?)

However, the system isn't perfect. I work as a geotechnical engineer.
One Monday I called to drill a bunch of holes in the streets of
Berkeley - various scattered locations. On Thursday, on the 10th hole
of 12, we hit an old water main (6" or 8"). The first person on the
scene was the fellow from the water agency who was running behind on
his location markings...  The line was installed in 1927, 1.5 feet
deep (minimum is now 5 feet). The cast-iron pipe was brittle, and it
took two nicks with the drill teeth to shatter it.

> records are correct; sometimes they are wrong. In Chicago for
> example, in the oldest area of the city which is roughly the area
> immediatly south and west of the present downtown, around the Clinton/
> Harrison Sts area there have been occassions when street excavations
> were necessary for one reason or another and they've found dozens
> of underground conduits which they were unable to identify as to
> their purpose. The newer stuff is all on computerized records and
> maps, but the very oldest can sometimes only be deciphered when
> experts spend some time reviewing underground utility maps in the
> office at City Hall used for that purpose. And then, they hope that
> someone in the middle or late 19th century was *precise* in their
> measurements of exactly how many feet in one direction or another
> the pipe or conduit would extend, which direction it went from there,
> and which buildings it serviced, etc. 

Another time, I was drilling a site on Mission Street in San
Francisco. PG&E had marked some sort of line in front of the building.
We set up a few feet away, and began drilling. Three feet into what we
thought was an old concrete footing, we hit a 12kV line. Turns out
that the conduit bank was mainly on the _other_side_ of the hole from
the markings.

Most of the utility companies actually run underground location
equipment when called out by USA. The maps aren't nearly accurate
enough to locate. The best you'll get is sidewalk vs. street.

[snip]

> Sometimes the backhoe people are not at fault. Sometimes it is due
> to our poor record-keeping process, and the fact that some of it is
> so old the slightest bit of disturbance causes it to fail.  PAT]    

And sometimes it's a mix. A main long-distance cable out of San
Francisco was drilled through a few years (10-15?) back. The engineer
had marked a small (six inches square) location, which was reported as
clear, well in advance. Soil engineers forget to look up sometimes -
there was an awning in the way which the drill rig wouldn't fit under.
The engineer decided to move a few feet away, the same distance from
the building as the marked location. And promptly drilled through the
main LD cable. San Francisco's financial district was cut off from the
rest of the world for 4 hours. The settlement between the phone
company and the insurance company was about $10 million, representing
only the lost revenue to the telco, not the lost business, etc, of the
customers. On future investigation, it was discovered that the phone
line ran directly under the marked location, too.


Anthony Argyriou

------------------------------

From: adamf@nospam.columbus.rr.com (Adam Frix)
Subject: Re: Yet Another "Backhoe" Telecom Outage
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:26:53 -0400
Organization: Road Runner Columbus


In article <telecom19.241.2@telecom-digest.org>, kamlet@infinet.com wrote:

> Here in Columbus, in the past ten days, there were two well publicized
> incidents of cutting into gas lines or water lines that had not been
> Call-ed before you dig.

> One was Monday at the airport, about 200 feet from the terminal.

But that one *was* researched before the dig.  Problem was, the line was
not where the records showed.

Not the operator's fault.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 00:33:50 -0400
From: Judith Oppenheimer <joppenheimer@icbtollfree.com>
Organization: ICB Toll Free News / WhoSells800.com
Subject: Re: 800, 888, 877, 866, 855, 844, 833, 822, 811, ???


Washington, DC June 4, 1999 (ICB TOLL FREE NEWS) By letter dated June
2, The Industry Numbering Committee (INC) notified the Ordering &
Billing Forum's SMS Number Administration Committee (OBF/SNAC) that it
had reached agreement at its meeting the week of May 17, 1999, on the
assignment of NPA codes for toll-free service. It was agreed to use
the 88X series (except 888 already in use) with certain restrictions.
The codes to be assigned with the restrictions noted are as follows:

880, 881 and 882

These codes are currently used for Paid-800 service in Canada and the
Caribbean as "mirrored" codes to match 800, 888 and 887. These codes
will be reclaimed and available for use (pending an aging period, if
necessary) no later than April 1, 2004.

883, 884, 885 and 887

These codes are available for use now.

886 and 889

These codes are currently assigned as pseudo-NPA codes for billing
purposes for Non-Dial Toll Points. These codes will be reclaimed by
June 7, 2001.

The order of opening new codes will be addressed later by the INC,
pending a response from the OBF/SNAC as to when the new codes will be
required.


Judith Oppenheimer
ICB Toll Free News
http://icbtollfree.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:59:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mark J Cuccia <mcuccia@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu>
Reply-To: Mark J Cuccia <mcuccia@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu>
Subject: Re: 800, 888, 877, 866, 855, 844, 833, 822, 811, ???


Seymour Dupa (grumpy@bigbird.en.com) wrote:

> What's going to come after 811?

> When 800 got used up, instead of going to 888, 877, etc, they should
> have gone to 801, 802, 803, ...

and PAT (editor@telecom-digest.org) replied:

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I don't think the people living in 801,
> 802 and 803-land would would have liked that decision very much. After
> the last available choices are used up in 811, hopefully we will have
> gone to some entirely new numbering system. PAT]

Well, first, you will _NOT_ have 811 being used as a geographic/POTS NPA
nor as a SAC (non-geographic "Special" Area Code). It is one of the
special LOCAL access 3-digit "N11" codes that can NOT be used for NPA
purposes.

In many areas of the country, 811 has traditionally been used to call the
telco Business Offices. This was the traditional use in most Panel and
#1XB areas of the country dating back to prior to WW-II. (I know that in
decades past, in Chicago, Pat will mention how 811 was used to get some
form of "regional toll operator" or during "the war" (WW-II that is), 811
was IIRC, the code for an operator who handled "military immediate" toll
calls).

811 is _NOT_ used as a Central Office code in ANY area code in the NANP,
except it _is_ available _within_ toll-free SACs 800/888/877/etc. Seven
out of the eight possible N11 formats ARE available for the "c.o.code"
part of toll-free numbers. The N11 that is NOT used as a c.o.code within
toll-free SACs is 911, for obvious reasons (mis-dials).

However, in some areas (California and British Columbia, and maybe
Nevada), telco has in the past used 811-xxxx for reaching particular
departments of telco's business office or repair service - 811 as a
SPECIAL c.o.code, dialed as part of a seven-digit "local" but SPECIAL
number. USUALLY, one trying to call from "outside" of CA, NV, BC can NOT
reach such numbers in CA, NV, BC, etc.

In areas where 611 has been used to reach Repair Service and 811 has been
used to reach the Business Office, most of the traditional telcos have
been "phasing out" these 3-digit local codes in favor of dialing a
ten-digit toll-free 800/888/877/etc. type of number. One of the reasons is
the emerging local competition. Should 611 and 811 reach the traditional
telco's departments? Should 611 and 811 reach the telco that the line is
getting its dialtone from? Remember, there are "facilities-based" CLECs as
well as reseller-only CLECs. The second type of a CLEC is simply buying
lines and switching functions from the larger telco and reselling it as a
middle-man. The customers of resellers still get their dialtone from a
larger/traditional telco's switch, while a customer served by a facility
based CLEC gets their dialtone from that CLEC's switch.

Lockheed-Martin's NANPA's website has some info on the N11 codes:
http://www.nanpa.com/number_resource_info/n11_codes.html

Some of the N11 codes not previously used for "traditional" functions
in a particular area have been "approved" for "temporary"
PAY-PAY-PAY-per-call functions - particularly in many BellSouth
states! :-(

As for what happens after 822 is "full" for toll-free ...

That's still up-in-the-air...

The Industry groups (Telcordia/ATIS/INC/NANPA/NANC/etc) are THINKING
about using the remaining 88X codes for toll-free fuctions (880 thru
887, and 889 - 888 is already used for toll-free). This is NOT a final
position!

This would also involve RECLAIMING 880, 881, and 882 from their present
uses. These three codes are presently used for "International-inbound
caller PAYS the international toll for calling SOME NANP-based toll-free
numbers". They are "replace" codes... i.e. a caller from outside of the
NANP would dial their intl/ovs access code (most countries presently use
'00+'), followed by Country-Code +1, and then the ten-digit NANP-based
toll-free number, however, an 800 would be replaced with 880, an 888 would
be replaced with 881, and an 877 would be replaced with 882. Even some
NANP-Caribbean locations have used the "replace" codes to call US/Canada
toll-free numbers which aren't available from the Caribbean, but the
caller still wishes to call them yet PAY for the call. In 1995 and 1996,
some Canadian telcos allowed calling US-based toll-free numbers not
usually available from Canada in this fashion - the call was simply placed
as 1-880- for a US 800 number, and 1-881 for a US 888 number. But this
isn't always workable, since many NANP-based companies with toll-free
numbers still had to pay the DOMESTIC toll part of the call, and didn't
want overseas callers (who weren't necessarily their customer-base)
dialing them.

ALSO, using the other 88X codes for additional toll-free SACs will involve
RECLAIMING the _BILLING-IDENTIFICATION-ONLY_ 88X codes (883, 885, 886,
887, 889) from their present use. Since the 1970's, calls to remaining
small non-dial settlements throughout the US/Canada/Caribbean AND MEXICO,
have to be placed by an operator. These towns (mostly in remote parts of
NV, CA, and northern Canada) have ratecenter V/H co-ordinates, identified
for the 10-digit billing equipment with "pseudo" area codes of the 88X
format. Note - the 88X codes for billing of calls to non-dial points is a
BILLING code. In most every case, the OPERATOR does NOT even DIAL (or KEY)
the 88X code to route and ring the actual desired party, but rather uses
other operator-only ROUTING codes of the 1XX and 0XX format.


MARK_J._CUCCIA__PHONE/WRITE/WIRE/CABLE:__HOME:__(USA)__Tel:_CHestnut-1-2497
WORK:__mcuccia@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu|4710-Wright-Road|__(+1-504-241-2497)
Tel:UNiversity-5-5954(+1-504-865-5954)|New-Orleans-28__|fwds-on-no-answr-to
Fax:UNiversity-5-5917(+1-504-865-5917)|Louisiana(70128)|cellular/voicemail-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:39:03 CDT
From: Jim Haynes <jhaynes@cavern.uark.edu>
Subject: Arkansas A.G. Moves Against American Tele-Network Inc.


The Attorney General of Arkansas has filed a lawsuit against
American Tele-Network, saying:

  "AT-N tricked Arkansas consumers into switching their long-distance
   service by using such deceptive tactics as claiming to be AT&T or
   Sprint, and by misrepresenting to consumers that they would receive
   long-distance service for nine cents per minute, 24 hours a day."

Suit seeks injunction barring these practices, restitution for Arkansas
victims, and civil penalties.

My father is one of their victims, got slammed in February, and their
monthly charges are still appearing on his Southwestern Bell bill after
he has twice told them to cancel the service (and their operator assured
him they had done so).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:25:33 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Apple Introduces AirPort Wireless Networking


http://www.apple.com/pr/library/1999/jul/21lucent.html

Joint Release

Apple Introduces AirPort Wireless Networking

Teams with Lucent to Bring Cable-Free Internet Access to iBook
MACWORLD EXPO, NEW YORK-July 21, 1999-Apple today introduced 
AirPort, a wireless local area network (LAN) solution that provides 
totally untethered Internet access for its stunning new iBook 
consumer portable. Apple's AirPort solution includes the AirPort 
Card, which fits inside Apple's new iBook, and the AirPort Base 
Station, which contains a 56K modem and a 10BASE-T Ethernet port for 
connecting to a phone line, cable modem, DSL modem or local area 
network for terrestrial Internet access. AirPort is based on the 
industry standard IEEE 802.11b, and operates at 11 megabits per 
second for fast Internet access from anywhere in the home or 
classroom.

"It's a liberating experience to surf the Internet from your iBook 
while freely moving about your home or classroom-without any power or 
networking cables to tie you down," said Steve Jobs, Apple's interim 
CEO. "With AirPort we can now bring fast Internet access to every 
room in the house and every desk in the classroom."

iBook, the first computer designed for wireless networking from the 
start, includes two built-in antennas and a slot for the optional 
AirPort Card (see related release). The AirPort Card, working in 
conjunction with the AirPort Base Station, enables data to be 
transmitted between iBooks and the AirPort Base Station at speeds of 
up to 11 megabits per second. Up to ten iBooks can share a single 
AirPort Base Station simultaneously from up to 150 feet away.
Apple teamed with Lucent Technologies, a leader in wireless 
networking, to design and deliver AirPort. The 18 month-long 
collaboration has resulted in the most cost-effective and 
easiest-to-use wireless networking solution ever.

"Apple's decision to pioneer mainstream wireless networking is as 
significant as its pioneering of the graphical user interface," said 
Rich McGinn, chairman and chief executive officer of Lucent 
Technologies. "We are delighted to be working closely with Apple to 
bring this incredible technology to the market."
Apple's iBook consumer portable, available in September for U.S. 
$1,599, features a brilliant 12.1-inch (diagonal) active-matrix TFT 
SVGA display; a fast PowerPC G3 processor running at 300MHz with a 
high-speed 512K backside L2 cache; and up to six hours running time 
on a single charge of its Lithium-Ion battery. The AirPort Card is a 
U.S. $99 option and easily installed by consumers. The AirPort Base 
Station is U.S. $299. Additionally, Apple will offer a wireless card 
for its current line of PowerBook G3 professional notebooks.

Apple Computer, Inc. ignited the personal computer revolution in the 
1970s with the Apple II, and reinvented the personal computer in the 
1980s with the Macintosh. Apple is now recommitted to its original 
mission-to bring the best personal computing products and support to 
students, educators, designers, scientists, engineers, 
businesspersons and consumers in over 140 countries around the world.
Lucent Technologies, headquartered in Murray Hill, N. J., designs, 
builds and delivers a wide range of public and private networks, 
communications systems and software, data networking systems, 
business telephone systems and microelectronics components. Bell 
Laboratories is the research and development arm for the company. For 
more information on Lucent Technologies, visit the company's web site 
at http://www.lucent.com.

Press Contacts:
Nathalie Welch
Apple Computer, Inc.
(408) 974-5430
welch@apple.com

Sam Gronner
Lucent Technologies
(908) 507-2115
samgronner@lucent.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:26:23 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Apple and Akamai Create High Quality Network for Internet 


http://www.apple.com/pr/library/1999/jul/21akamai.html 

Joint Release 

Apple and Akamai Create High Quality Network for Internet Streaming


MACWORLD EXPO, NEW YORK-July 21, 1999-Apple and Akamai Technologies 
today announced that they are combining their technologies to build the 
backbone for Apple's new QuickTime TV (QTV) network, creating the most 
reliable way for Macintosh and Windows users worldwide to view 
high-quality streaming video and audio over the Internet. Working 
together, Apple and Akamai's engineers have upgraded Akamai's global 
Internet content delivery service to support Internet streaming, using 
Apple's QuickTime Streaming Server software. 

"Apple and Akamai are working together to build a global network that 
will deliver the highest quality streaming video and audio over the 
Internet," said Steve Jobs, Apple's interim CEO. "High-quality, scalable 
Internet streaming is finally here." 

"Apple and Akamai's technologies will elevate streaming media to a new 
level of performance not yet realized on today's Internet," said George 
Conrades, Akamai chairman and CEO. "Apple was one of Akamai's first 
customers and we are excited to be working closely together on the 
QuickTime TV network." 

The QTV network will provide leading content providers with the fastest, 
most reliable distribution network available for Internet content. The 
QTV network integrates the QuickTime 4 Player and QuickTime Streaming 
Server with the Akamai network to give consumers one-click access to 
high-quality content. 

Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the 
Apple II, and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the 
Macintosh. Apple is now recommitted to its original mission-to bring the 
best personal computing products and support to students, educators, 
designers, scientists, engineers, businesspersons and consumers in over 
140 countries around the world. 

Akamai Technologies is transforming the way content is delivered over 
the Internet. With an unprecedented guarantee for improving the speed 
and reliability of web sites, Akamai's Internet content delivery network 
has grown to over 900 servers in 15 countries, and serves over 
one-quarter billion hits per day. Headquartered in Cambridge, MA, Akamai 
Technologies-www.akamai.com-has 150 employees. Akamai (pronounced AH kuh 
my) is Hawaiian for intelligent, clever and cool. 


Press Contacts:
Matthew Hutchison
Apple Computer, Inc.
(408) 974-6877
hutchison@apple.com


Jeff Young
Akamai Technologies, Inc.
(617) 250-3913
jyoung@akamai.com

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jul 1999 02:02:33 -0400
From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine)
Subject: Re: Building an ISP - 1500' From the CO Boundry
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA


> We would like to have the telephone company install the required 'two
> county' lines on our neighbors property (with his permission).  We
> would then extend the lines the needed 1500' to our main building.
> The ISP equipment would be installed in the main building.

You can have the telco install phone lines anywhere you want.  But
there's the tiny issue of "extending" the lines back from your
neighbor's property to your office.  You can't just string wires
across the road.  If you have an extremely cooperative PUC and local
government, you might be able to get permits to run wires in the road
right of way and make a deal with whoever owns the phone poles (telco
or electric company most likely) to attach your wires to the poles,
but that's going to take forever and cost too much.

The straightforward approach is to install a rack in your neighbor's
building with the Portmaster or whatever kind of modem bank you plan
to use, so you just need to run a single high-speed line back to the
office.  If you can see the roof of one building from the other, there
are several moderately priced wireless systems that will give you T1
or better speed.  Or at worst, find out how much the telco will charge
you for a T1 from the neighbor to you.  Most telcos charge by the
mile, and a 1/2 mile T1 would probably be pretty cheap.

But before you do that, see if there are any CLECs operating in your
area, and if there are, get your lines from one of them.  CLECs for
the most part are happy to give you lines with numbers in the "wrong"
exchange.

If all this seems like too much hassle, you probably shouldn't be in
the ISP business.  This is nothing compared to other stuff you'll have
to deal with.


John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869
johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, 
Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #243
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Thu Jul 22 13:31:40 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA20539;
	Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:31:40 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:31:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907221731.NAA20539@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #244

TELECOM Digest     Thu, 22 Jul 99 13:31:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 244

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Welcome to Vortex Daily Reality Report (TELECOM Digest Editor)
    Re: Building an ISP - 1500' From the CO Boundry (Justa Lurker)
    Re: Building an ISP - 1500' From the CO Boundry (Derek Balling)
    Re: No PIC Selection Question (Scott)
    Re: No PIC Selection Question (Ed Ellers)
    Re: How to Identify a Wireless Number? (David Clayton)
    Re: How to Identify a Wireless Number? (Ari Wuolle)
    Re: 1411 vs. 411 (Was Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free (Joseph Singer)
    Re: Public Phones Number Listing (Michael S. Berlant)
    Re: Isotec Terminals (Michael S. Berlant)
    Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California (E Ellers)
    Re: A Week We Won't Forget! (Darryl Smith)
    Re: Rate Centers (was Re: Just a Question About New Area Codes) (D. Esan)
    Re: Berkeley, CA Based Firm Dials Up Concept of Master Numbers (Black)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: TELECOM Digest Editor <ptownson@telecom-digest.org>
Subject: Welcome to Vortex Daily Reality Report
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:00:00 EDT


Lauren Weinstein's five day per week radio feature, 'Vortex Daily
Reality Report and Unreality Trivia Quiz' can now be heard as part
of the background audio in the TELECOM Digest Daily E-News presentation
each day.

When you browse to http://telecom-digest.org/news each day for the
'best of the net', a compilation of news and feature stories from
dozens of internet web sites, an audio background is automatically
started which you are free to silence if you prefer silence. The
default audio is the Associated Press Internet Audio news feed, a
five minute summary of news updated every fifteen minutes at AP for
the net.

The alternative audio choices you may choose are a continuous live
feed from CNN Headline News and now, Lauren Weinstein's ninety second
daily commentary. I hope you will enjoy his five times weekly feature.

To use http://telecom-digest/news in addition to the three audio
presentations, you may click on one of the daily features shown at
the top including the cartoon, the daily quote, the daily astronomy
picture or 'This Day in History'.  Two feature stories from CNET are
featured on the front page as well. By clicking on the large 'NEWS'
icon further down the page, you are taken to another page where about
a hundred links are given to the news for the day from many different
sources on the net.

My thanks to Lauren for allowing his program to be included.


Patrick Townson

------------------------------

From: Justa Lurker <justalurker@telecom-digest.zzn.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:07:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Building an ISP - 1500' From the CO Boundry


johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) wrote:

>> We would like to have the telephone company install the required 'two
>> county' lines on our neighbors property (with his permission). We
>> would then extend the lines the needed 1500' to our main building.
>> The ISP equipment would be installed in the main building.

> You can have the telco install phone lines anywhere you want. But
> there's the tiny issue of "extending" the lines back from your
> neighbor's property to your office.  You can't just string wires 
> across the road. If you have an extremely cooperative PUC and local
> government, you might be able to get permits to run wires in the road
> right of way and make a deal with whoever owns the phone poles (telco
> or electric company most likely) to attach your wires to the poles,
> but that's going to take forever and cost too much.

There are power poles available.  I hadn't thought about permits.
(Which is why I asked in TELECOM Digest -- where the thinkers are.)

> The straightforward approach is to install a rack in your neighbor's
> building with the Portmaster or whatever kind of modem bank you plan
> to use, so you just need to run a single high-speed line back to the
> office. If you can see the roof of one building from the other, 
> there are several moderately priced wireless systems that will give
> you T1 or better speed. Or at worst, find out how much the telco
> will charge you for a T1 from the neighbor to you. Most telcos
> charge by the mile, and a 1/2 mile T1 would probably be pretty cheap.

I'd prefer to run the whole operation from across the road.  We could
call the pop for our in-house needs.  But the price of a building is
too steep -- which tells a lot about our (lack of) budget.

> But before you do that, see if there are any CLECs operating in your
> area, and if there are, get your lines from one of them. CLECs for
> the most part are happy to give you lines with numbers in the "wrong"
> exchange.

We have CLECs nearby -- but so far they are using the incumbant's
numbers -- all exchanges are now portable in this area.

> If all this seems like too much hassle, you probably shouldn't be in
> the ISP business. This is nothing compared to other stuff you'll 
> have to deal with.

I'm not rushing in.  Just making sure that if the boss' dreams come
true he doesn't end up with a nightmare.

Thanks for your help.


Justa Lurker

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:23:42 -0700
From: Derek Balling <dredd@megacity.org>
Subject: Re: Building an ISP - 1500' From the CO Boundry


>   Or at worst, find out how much the telco will charge
> you for a T1 from the neighbor to you.  Most telcos charge by the
> mile, and a 1/2 mile T1 would probably be pretty cheap.

Yeah, but the mileage is calculated from CO to CO (so for example it
would be the distance between HIS CO and his neighbor's CO), as well
as from CO to customer.

So he'd end up paying for a lot more than the 1500' feet of T1 that he 
needs. :)

Another possibility, if it is available is RCF (Remote Call
Forwarding) or in Ameritech lands Omnipresence.

Both of those allow you to have phone numbers in one location
forwarded to another. (So you could have numbers in the neighboring
location forwarded to your location).

With RCF, this is only economical if the two locations can call each
other locally. It's 1500', so I suspect they can (although for years,
the town I grew up in [Saugerties, NY] couldn't call its direct
neighbor [Palenville, NY], because they were in separate NPA and
LATA's).

With Omnipresence, the numbers do not necessarily have to be local to
each other, but its cheaper if they are.

They are usually cheaper solutions than FX lines, from my experience.


D

------------------------------

From: Scott <reply@thegroup.com>
Subject: Re: No PIC Selection Question
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:31:08 -0600
Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com


Only toll calls are blocked, and calls to 900 type numbers.  Many of our
customers have toll-restricted service for budgeting reasons.

R. Scott Seab, VP - Law
NOW Communications, Inc.

Evan L. Hill <evanh@primenet.com> wrote in message
news:telecom19.233.3@telecom-digest.org...

> What restrictions are placed on a line where no Long Distance Carrier
> has been selected?

> Are 1+800 and 1+888 calls allowed?

------------------------------

From: Ed Ellers <ed_ellers@msn.com>
Subject: Re: No PIC Selection Question
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 02:30:19 -0400


Linc Madison (LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com) wrote:

> The FCC has ordered that your chosen long-distance company will now
> pay a flat monthly fee to subsidize your local service. This was one
> of the worst FCC rulings in a long time.  If you want to make the flat
> monthly price of local service more closely reflect the flat monthly
> cost of providing the service, then put that through as an increase in
> the basic monthly rate; don't filter it through an extra layer of
> accounting."

But, of course, that would take away Federal power and give it back to
the states' utility commissions, which as we "know" are run by
incompetent political hacks who aren't capable of setting a fair rate
for telephone service, right?

Seriously, *some* Federal preemption has been a good thing (such as
the Part 68 rules that allow us to buy our own telephone sets), but
the idea of the FCC telling telcos that they have to charge X more
than the state will allow them to is just asinine.

> If you do drop it altogether, your local carrier will bill you directly
> for a monthly fee. However, it's significantly lower than $3/month."

I believe it was 53 cents/month.

------------------------------

From: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au (David Clayton)
Subject: Re: How to Identify a Wireless Number?
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:28:20 GMT
Organization: Customer of Connect.com.au Pty. Ltd.
Reply-To: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au


Admin <Antilles@AnteLink.com> contributed the following:

> Do any of the listers have specific knowledge as to how wireless
> telephone numbers (as opposed to land line telephone numbers) are
> identified in Australia, Israel, Italy, Japan, Netherlands,
> Switzerland, Spain, the U.K., Belgium, etc.?

In Australia prefixes 04, 015, 018, 019 are mobile services.


Regards,

David Clayton, e-mail: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

Dilbert's words of wisdom #18: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

------------------------------

From: spta2h99w@nic.fi (Ari Wuolle)
Subject: Re: How to Identify a Wireless Number?
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:06:24 GMT


On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:12:24 -0400, Admin <Antilles@AnteLink.com>
wrote:

> For internal billing purposes, my firm in the US needs to identify
> whether numbers that we call overseas (011+) are land line or
> wireless.

Over here in Finland numbers starting with +358 4 and +358 50 are
cellular (or pager).

+358 4 is divided between several carriers, but all numbers starting
with +358 4 are either in cellular or pager use.

Please note that +358 5 is also the Kymi area code for land line
phones. So +358 5 x ... where x is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 are
landlines, but if x is 0 it is Radiolinja GSM cellular. If x is 9 it
is an invalid number (at least at the moment).

Same thing repeats with other number series, too. For example, +358 8
is the area code for land lines in Oulu area, but +358 800 is freefone
area code (***NOT*** free of charge when called outside Finland!). So
we are reusing the 0 in cases where subscriber numbers cannot begin
with 0. 

Note that as one has to always dial the "area code" when calling a
mobile phone, there are some mobile phone numbers that actually start
with 0, like +358 40 043 1140.

Then there are some local cellular operators who let incoming calls go
without any surcharges (neither caller nor callee). They use numbers
embeddeded into the local land line area codes. One example of such
are Helsingin Puhelin Oyj GSM1800 numbers which are +358 9 411xxxxx
and + 358 9 850xxxxx. However as they do not charge any surcharges, I
don't think international carriers would have any reason to charge
more for this kind of numbers.

Mr. Kimmo Ketolainen has gathered quite nice list of Finnish numbers
which may be worth looking at:

http://iki.fi/kk/tele/+358=Finland.numbering.html

Official data is available at Finnish Telecommunications
Administration Center, but over there it is spread into several
documents:

http://www.thk.fi/englanti/tele/telenum.htm

For other countries The Phone Booth could be a good place to start
gathering information:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/8818/

IMO your international carrier should provide you with accurate
pricing information -- if they can't tell you which area codes are
which just find another carrier who knows what customer service means.


Cheers,

Ari

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:23:23 -0700
From: Joseph Singer <dov@oz.net>
Subject: Re: 1411 vs. 411 (Was Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free


Christopher W. Boone"<cboone@earthlink.net> wrote:

> But then SWB also uses 1411 for DA ... NOT 411 (STUPID!!!)

SWB in Houston also does this.  I believe it's a holdover from when
certain switches such as the step-by-step switches needed some way to
"bill" the calls when SWB started to charge for Information (nee
directory assistance.)

It was far after I was in Houston, but I would bet that originally
information was just plain 411 when DA was free.  In Maine where I
hail from they changed from the service code 411 (originally 113) to
1-555-1212 so they could bill the calls.  In step offices that was the
only way you could indicate billing easily (my guess.)  USWest until
last year was using 1+A/C+555-1212 for DA, but changed to 411 with the
inauguration of their "anywhere" DA service.  I've heard that 411 was
used before they used the 1-555-1212 service.


Joseph Singer    Seattle, Washington USA  <mailto:dov@oz.net> 
<http://welcome.to/dov>  <http://wwp.mirabilis.com/460262> [ICQ pgr] 
+1 206 405 2052 [msg] +1 707 516 0561 [FAX] Seattle, Washington USA

------------------------------

From: Michael S. Berlant <MichaelS.Berlant@eds.NOSPAM.com>
Subject: Re: Public Phones Number Listing
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:40:23 +0900
Organization: Professional EDS Vagabond


These services are only available for territories that allow incoming
calls to pay phones.

SingTel does not, although the Dymo label above the dial will be the
last five digits of the telephone's real phone number.  You have to
know what telephone exchanges are serving the neighborhood to make an
intelligent guess as to the correct phone number.  For example, pay
phones at Changi Airport are all 54x-xxxx.

Of course, Caller ID is blocked on those phones, so paging with ** or
calling a handphone won't help.


peng1234@singnet.com.sg wrote:

> Just wondering, is there any way posiible for one to get the telephone
> number of public phones without calling the exchange or
> telecommunications company (telco) ?

------------------------------

From: Michael S. Berlant <MichaelS.Berlant@eds.NOSPAM.com>
Subject: Re: Isotec Terminals
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:14:34 +0900
Organization: Professional EDS Vagabond


The Isoetec system control terminal for System 66/96 is nothing more
than a Wyse50 with a keyboard mapping ROM in it.  

You don't mention whether you have a dead terminal or not.  During the
life of my Isoetec system, I have experienced a dead system terminal. 
While searching for a replacement, I used a VT-220 emulator with 80%
compatibility.  Then, I bought a used Wyse50 and swapped in my keyboard
driver chip (it's socketed on the motherboard of the screen unit).

YMMV, but this worked for me.


Alain Chagnon wrote:

> Anybody knows a good terminal emulator that can replace an Isotec
> terminal?

------------------------------

From: Ed Ellers <ed_ellers@msn.com>
Subject: Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 02:58:57 -0400


Thomas A. Horsley (Tom.Horsley@worldnet.att.net) wrote:

> I really don't understand what people have against overlays. Do they
> enjoy having to make sure everyone they ever gave their phone number
> to gets their new number?

That's not the case at all, because the seven-digit number does not
change, only the area code associated with that *area.* If you know
someone in western Kentucky (formerly area code 502), when the area
code split a few months ago all you had to remember was that your
friends in Louisville are still in 502 and your friends in Bowling
Green, Mayfield, Henderson, etc.  are now in 270.  With an overlay
you'd have the situation where different numbers *in the same place*
could have different area codes, so for example you'd have to remember
that Wally's office number and his cellular phone are still in 502 but
Mary Ellen's new PCS phone is in 270, even though all are in the same
rate center.

> Why does the outrage always come from having to dial four more digits?

Because in a typical overlay situation you end up having to dial *the
same digits* (maybe three, maybe four) for almost every call, since
the vast majority of the local calls you make would stay in the
existing area code.  If the overlay had gone through I'd have to
prefix "502" on 90% of the calls I make every day and "812" (for local
calls to southern Indiana) on almost all the rest, because it would be
some time until a significant number of the people I call would have
new 270 numbers.

> The most ridiculous thing about the four digit outrage is that if
> you keep splitting the area codes instead of doing overlays, pretty
> soon your "next door neighbor" (the standard example in all the
> outrage stories) is in a different area code anyway!

Only for the small percentage of people who live or work along the new
boundary -- and they'd already be in different prefixes anyway, so
remembering that they are now in a new area code won't be that tough.
A good analogy would be to a conversion from four-, five- or six-digit
local numbers to seven digits in the 1950s; it was easy to remember
that all the New Albany numbers (which had been four digits) now began
with WHitehall 1, all the Jeffersonville numbers (five digits) now
started with BUtler followed by the existing number, and all the
ARlington numbers in Louisville (which had had six digits) now are
SPring 6 followed by the last four digits.

In short, with a split you not only don't have to dial the same three
or four digits over and over, but you still know what the area code is
for a given place.  With a general overlay you don't.

------------------------------

From: Darryl Smith <vk2tds@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: A Week We Won't Forget!
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:08:08 +1000


Pat and others,

Here in Australia there was a story on the news about the 30th
anniversary of the Moon Landing. Australia played an important part in
the whole episode, even more so thanks to the timing of the moon walk.

The moon walk was intended to happen many hours later than it did -- I
seem to remember something about it being eight hours early. That
eight hours placed the first step being received in Australia rather
than the European ground station.

The transmission was received at Honeysuckle Creek which has now been
closed down. The antennas have now been moved the 20 miles to
Tidbinbilla tracking station. Anyway they then apparently sent the
signals to Sydney by microwave links owned by the Australian
Broadcasting Commission (ABC). From Sydney they were sent throughout
Australia in Black and White (Australia did not get colour TV until
1975 or 1975). The signal was also unlinked to the USA.

According to the news broadcast an hour or two later they handed over
to the Parkes radio telescope in Central New South Wales (NSW) because
it was about 500 kM West, and also had a larger antenna improving the
received signals.

As it was pointed out, Australians actually saw the first step on the
moon before the rest of the world thanks to the 300 mSec propagation
delay :-)

In 1969 my mother was a teacher in a small mining town about 100 miles
west of Sydney -- and she can remember a few classes of 10 year olds
watching the moon landing during school.

If you want a real telecommunications story I have heard some small
stories about how Honeysuckle creek was used during Apollo 13. From
what I have heard they used every trick in the book during that one. I
will have to ask a friend to write down what he remembers of it ...


Darryl Smith Vk2TDS
Sydney Australia


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: There was something mentioned about how
if certain links had not worked correctly the astronauts would have
been forced to wait another eight hours before leaving the ship to 
walk on the moon. This might be the reference I am thinking about. Don
Kimberlin would be the best person to answer. Anyone who has not yet
had an opportunity to view http://telecom-digest.org/camelot-on-the-moon.html
might wish to do so for a fascinating account of the challenge to
telecommunications in the 'moonwalk'.     PAT]

------------------------------

From: davidesan@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Rate Centers (was Re: Just a Question About New Area Codes)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:36:51 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


In article <telecom19.241.3@telecom-digest.org>, dannyb@panix.com
(Danny Burstein) wrote:

> There are a couple of exceptions that prove the rule (I've always
> wanted to use that phrase ...). The five boroughs of NYC are a single
> rate zone.  Until a decade ago that meant one area code, 212, and that
> initially included pagers and cell phones.

This isn't quite true.  New York City is still divided into several
rate zones.  Manhattan in three different pieces, and I think there
are about eleven other zones in outlying areas.  I think this has no
real effect on billing -- all three Manhattan zones have the the same
costing and billing area, but if memory serves, some of the other
zones have exceptions from their neighboring zones.


David Esan
Veramark Technologies
desan@veramark.com

------------------------------

From: black@csulb.edu (Matthew Black)
Subject: Re: Berkeley, CA Based Firm Dials Up Concept of Master Phone Numbers
Date: 22 Jul 1999 14:47:15 GMT


In article <telecom19.240.1@telecom-digest.org>, tad@ssc.com says...

> By George Avalos, Contra Costa Times, Walnut Creek, Calif.
> Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News
[original message edited for brevity --matt 990722]

George certainly needs help understanding business technology.
Maybe he can take lessons from Pacifica Radio (-;

> If the technology devised by Open Telephone Network Inc., or OTelNet,
> pays off, people will be able to use a single master phone number for
> all of their phones. This also may help ease the accelerating
> proliferation of new areas codes, prefixes and numbers, a problem that
> is especially acute in California.

Not a chance; it may make problems worse.  As others have pointed out,
the proliferation of area codes is caused by archaic allocation of NXX
number pools in blocks of 10,000 to any LEC regardless of the number
of customers they support.

> "My home phone is in the 925 area code, my wireless phone has 510 and
> my office phone is in the 415 area code," said Jay Morrison, managing
> partner with Newbury Ventures, which has invested in OTelNet. "And not
> too long ago, all of these were 415."

And 52 years ago California had only three area codes (213/415/916)

> Berkeley-based OTelNet has devised a combination of software and
> communications gear that can ratchet up the intelligence of the
> nation's telephone networks. Pacific Bell's system, for example, would
> be able to route a call to a master phone number. The customer would
> be able to decide ahead of time which phone would receive the calls to
> the primary number.

Unless I'm mistaken, Sprint (or is it MCI) has offered this service
for several years.  It's called the "One" plan.

> "This will create simplicity," David George, vice president of
> marketing with OTelNet, said Tuesday. "You can have one phone number
> that is your personal phone number. You get one bill from one service
> provider." People would be able to collect all their messages from one
> machine. OTelNet hopes to ship products to large phone companies
> starting in September.

That's rather misleading.  Of course you would always get "one" bill
from one service provider.  Will they not send two?  What if all of
my phones are from different LEC's?

> Customers today can sign up for services such as Wildfire, or a
> competing system from Lucent, that allow a caller to dial into a
> single phone number.  But Wildfire, for example, is essentially an
> automated secretary and the system has to dial every one of a
> customer's phone numbers separately until it can find the recipient of
> a call. OTelNet's system can locate a recipient immediately.

Kind of like the Starship Enterprise?  How does it know which phone
I'm near?

> The technology also could allow phone companies to distribute new phone
> numbers at a much slower pace, since many customers would need only one
> number for multiple phones.

Every phone needs its individual phone number else we're talking about
multiple extensions which all ring at the same time.


  -----------------------------(c) 1999 Matthew Black, all rights reserved--
matthew black                   | Opinions expressed herein belong to me and
network & systems specialist    | may not reflect those of my employer
california state university     | 
network services SSA-180E       |             e-mail: black at csulb dot edu
1250 bellflower boulevard       |   PGP fingerprint: 6D 14 36 ED 5F 34 C4 B3
long beach, ca 90840            |                    E9 1E F3 CB E7 65 EE BC

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #244
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Thu Jul 22 15:59:26 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA26756;
	Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:59:26 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:59:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907221959.PAA26756@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #245

TELECOM Digest     Thu, 22 Jul 99 15:59:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 245

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea (Jack Decker)
    Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea (nospam)
    Phone Use on Airplane Sends Man to Jail (Mike Pollock)
    The Internet's Future (Myron Harvey)
    Re: Freedom From Spam at Last! (Joey Lindstrom)
    Digital Speech Integration With Lucent Definity (robthaler@my-deja.com)
    Re: How to Identify a Wireless Number? (David Charles)
    Re: ANACs in Bay Area (djpoopoo@my-deja.com)
    Re: 1411 vs. 411 (Was Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free (John R. Levine)
    Re: A Week We Won't Forget! (Matt Ackeret)
    Need 3xBRI ISDN Routing Switch For H.320 Set Top Box (John Bartley)
    Followup: Monophone (AE Model 40) Wiring Diagram Needed (Keelan Lightfoot)
    GTE and COCOT (Peter J. Gregoire)
    Re: www. Prefixes (Leonard Erickson)
    Re: 800, 888, 877, 866, 855, 844, 833, 822, 811, ??? (Seymour Dupa)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:35:37 -0400
From: Jack Decker <jack@novagate.REMOVE-THIS.com.content.net>
Subject: Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea


On 20 Jul 1999 23:25:53 -0500, nospam@elmhurst.msg.net (nospam) writes:

> In article <telecom19.237.3@telecom-digest.org>, Jack Decker
> <jack@novagate.REMOVE-THIS.com.content.net> wrote:

>>> The problem doesn't take a masters degree in Internet engineering to
>>> understand.  To use their service, you have to route ALL of your
>>> inbound e-mail through Bright Light servers.  Your POP account
>>> accesses Bright Light, then they login to your ISP to pick up your
>>> mail.  It passes through Bright Light, and then to you.

> What's worse, in order for this to work you MUST reveal your pop account
> password to Bright Light, and every time you use the service your account
> password is passed in cleartext across the internet. Most likely the ISP
> allows you to use this same password for dialup, ftp, shell, etc.

But, they claim they don't store it, and until someone proves
otherwise, I believe them.  To me, spam is SO offensive and such a
headache that I am willing to take the potential risk.

> At any ISP that cares one iota about security, the first rule of passwords
> is 'Never reveal your password to anybody' (or any service!)

Well if they care so much, why don't they set up their own spam
filtering?  As I understand it, Bright Light offer their service to
ISP's.  My gripe about some ISP's is that they are WAY too concerned
about security but don't spend a minute of time helping their
customers deal with the spam problem.

> The second rule is 'Never store passwords in cleartext'. In fact, every
> system I have configured, at a half dozen ISPs and even more corporations,
> stores the password encrypted on the server- even the ISP doesn't know your
> password.

> Bright Light contravenes both rules.

Well, first of all, when I transmit my password directly to my ISP, it
still goes clear text, so Bright Light isn't doing anything other than
what my ISP already does.  And second, unless you are calling them
liars when they say they don't store your password, they aren't
contravening that rule either.

>> But in any case, I don't see where this presents any greater risk than
>> using a large ISP. 

> In terms of the password, it's a huge risk because your password has to
> cross the public internet in cleartext, rather than just an ISP's intranet.

Well, to me it's an acceptable risk.  I HATE spam.

> I have a problem with how they do things, as a system administrator I
> block Bright Light and all similar services from any POP server under
> my control.  Any user who gives out their password to ANY 'untrusted
> third party' has to call to find out what their password has been
> changed to, or in a corp environment, has an interesting conversation
> with their supervisor.

In a corporate environment, if the corporation wants to pay for its
employees to read spam, that is their prerogative.  If you are saying
that a private ISP blocks use of the service to its users, then my
response would be to simply not use my ISP for ANY incoming e-mail
anymore.  There are plenty of other POP-accessible e-mail services on
the net that don't sit around wondering how they can inconvenience
their users this week.  I'd set up mail forwarding from my ISP account
to someplace that will allow me to use Bright Light's service, and go
from there (and if they disable my forwarding, well, I just hope they
have a lot of hard drive space to dedicate to all the e-mail list
messages that will never get read or removed unless they remove them
manually).

> Forget email -- think passwords.

As I say, until someone proves that Bright Light is storing passwords,
or handling them in an insecure manner, I'd be careful about making
such accusations.  Anyway, if there really is a security problem, I'm
sure we'll hear about a real incident soon enough.  Until then, I'm
very happy to have this option to filter out spam, something my ISP
does NOT provide.


Jack
(To send me private e-mail, make the obvious modification to my return e-mail
address).

------------------------------

From: nospam@elmhurst.msg.net (nospam)
Subject: Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea
Date: 22 Jul 1999 11:57:24 -0500
Organization: MSG.Net, Inc.


In article <telecom19.241.7@telecom-digest.org>, Steve Winter
<steve@sellcom.com> wrote:

> nospam@elmhurst.msg.net made some very strong points when he say:
>> At any ISP that cares one iota about security, the first rule of passwords
>> is 'Never reveal your password to anybody' (or any service!)

>> The second rule is 'Never store passwords in cleartext'. In fact, every
>> system I have configured, at a half dozen ISPs and even more corporations,
>> stores the password encrypted on the server- even the ISP doesn't know your
>> password.

>> Bright Light contravenes both rules.

> Ouch, that sounds like quite a valid condemnation of the service.   

> You seem to have a lot of experience with email servers, what is the
> practical difference between APOP and POP and which would you prefer
> from a security point of view if you had both available?

The primary difference between APOP and POP is that in POP the
password is (usually) stored encrypted on the server, but transmitted
in cleartext, while with APOP the password is stored in cleartext, but
transmitted encrypted.

Personally what I do is use APOP, but have a completely different
password for mail access than the password I use for anything
else. Actually, that is the third rule of passwords, ' Never use the
same password in more than one system (or administrative domain)'.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:40:48 PDT
From: Mike Pollock <pheel@sprynet.com>
Subject: Phone Use on Airplane Sends Man to Jail 


W I R E D   N E W S
- - - - - - - - - - 
Pig-Headed Cell Phoner Jailed
Reuters 

MANCHESTER, England -- A judge sentenced a British oil worker on
Wednesday to an unprecedented one year's jail for endangering an
international flight by refusing to switch off his mobile phone.

Neil Whitehouse, 28, was convicted of "recklessly and negligently
endangering" a British Airways flight carrying 91 passengers from
Madrid to Manchester after he ignored repeated requests from the crew
to switch off his phone.

"You had no regard for the alarm that would be caused to passengers by
your stubborn and ignorant behaviour," Judge Anthony Ensor told
Whitehouse at Manchester crown court.

Ensor said the case was the first time anyone had been prosecuted in
Britain for using a mobile phone aboard a plane and there was no
precedent to guide him on sentencing.

The sentence should serve as a warning that mobile phone use on
planes, which is is illegal in Germany and the United States, would be
treated as seriously as violence on board aircraft, Ensor said.

Both British Airways and the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), which
looks after the interests of all UK carriers, welcomed the landmark
ruling as a step in the right direction.

"We welcome the fact that the court has recognized the seriousness of
the hazard from mobile phones," BA spokesman Jamie Bowden said.

Although Whitehouse made no airborne calls, aviation experts told a
three-day trial that radio waves from the phone could have sparked an
explosion or affected the Boeing 737's navigational systems as it flew
at 31,000 feet (9,500 metres).

"The scientific evidence showed that there was a real possibility of
risk," Ensor said.

"You were sitting six metres (20 feet) away from 100 pieces of complex
electrical equipment," he told Whitehouse.

Whitehouse, who was sitting over the aircraft's wing fuel tanks, said
he had just been preparing a text message to send on his arrival in
Manchester. Despite warnings from the pilot and crew he kept his phone
on.

His lawyer argued that any potential interference to the plane's
systems would have been only for a few seconds and could have been
corrected.

Judge Ensor called for urgent new legislation specifically covering
mobile phone use on planes following CAA evidence given in the trial.

Detective Sergeant Rick Bates of Manchester Airport police agreed
action was necessary.

"The possible consequences in this case could have been far more
serious than from on-board violence. Luckily they weren't but that is
no guarantee for the future," he said.

Copyright 1999 Reuters Limited. 

------------------------------

From: <mharvey@uswest.net> (Myron Harvey)
Subject: The Internet's Future
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:55:39 GMT


Hi Pat,

	Some of your concerns about commercialization of the internet
are being addressed by a new entity set up by Savvis Communications
http://www.bcr.com/bcrmag/12/1298p23s1.htm  This was found by searching
northernlight.com and references a November '98 Boardwatch magazine
article by (then owner) Jack Rickard on the growing problems of
peering. "Brokered Exchange Systems" will be the name and is the
search string.

	MCI, Sprint and UUNET have aroused concern about peering and
this new entity is intended to offer  alternative access. The above
press release and the Boardwatch article indicate the plan includes 8
or 9 new interior gateways (NAPS?) and sensible peering rules. It
won't be free but will offer access right down to the smallest ISP in
East Podunk.

	Only you can solve the problem of a host. The first listserv I
subscribed to was moved off a university system when it became to big
a burden.

	I stumbled on comp.dcom.telecom several years ago and have
been hooked ever since. Your efforts are much appreciated.


Myron Harvey      Denver, CO 

------------------------------

From: Joey Lindstrom <Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:14:33 -0600
Reply-To: Joey Lindstrom <Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU>
Subject: Re: Freedom From Spam at Last!


> Someone far brighter than I wrote into his mail server a program which
> 'resolves' the address the mail was sent from with a DNS server -- and
> if it is not a valid address for that IP address, out it goes into the
> bit bucket.

> Now, if Bright Light just did that and did not otherwise log or examine
> the mail. that would be fine by me.

How exactly is this done?  Hopefully reverse lookups aren't used,
otherwise any mail I sent to such a server would bounce - and so far,
I've not seen that happen.

My POP3/SMTP server is located at 209.91.96.34.  The problem is that
this IP address, and indeed the entire subnet I'm using here (supplied
by my ADSL provider, Cadvision), is "owned" by my ISP, and they've got
reverse-DNS records in their database for every one of 'em.  I
specifically asked 'em to remove these records for this subnet because
I'm running my own DNS service, but to no avail.

Thus, if you try to resolve "babcom.garynumanfan.nu" (or
sinclair.garynumanfan.nu, my mail server), you get 209.91.96.35.  But
if you pull a reverse-lookup (first) on 209.91.96.35, you get
gen2-96ip35.cadvision.com.  If the mail server you're talking about
relies on reverse-lookup, all my mail is gonna get spam-filtered. 
Since I'm not a spammer, I find this annoying.  Almost as annoying as
your not including any name information in your post... :-)


 From the messy desktop of Joey Lindstrom
 Email: Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU or joey@lindstrom.com
 Phone: +1 403 313-JOEY
 FAX:   +1 413 643-0354 (yes, 413 not 403)
 Visit The NuServer!  http://www.GaryNumanFan.NU
 Visit The Webb!      http://webb.GaryNumanFan.NU

 Why is the alphabet in that order?  Is it because of that song? The guy
 who wrote that song wrote everything.
         --Steven Wright

------------------------------

From: robthaler@my-deja.com
Subject: Digital Speech Integration With Lucent Definity
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:07:16 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


Have you heard of Digital Speech?  This Voice Mail/ Messaging system
integrates with over 200 different phone systems.  My company is
curently using Digital Speech with our Lucent Definity PBX.  It's
features are unbelievable and it costs significantly less than
Lucent's voice mail offerings.  Digital Speech runs on a Windows NT
Platform and setting up voice mailboxes is as easy as drag-and-drop.
Check it out for yourselves at http://www.empt.com/digitalspeech/index.htm

------------------------------

From: d_c_h@my-deja.com (David Charles)
Subject: Re: How to Identify a Wireless Number?
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:58:13 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


In article <telecom19.241.4@telecom-digest.org>,
  Admin <Antilles@AnteLink.com> wrote:

> Do any of the listers have specific knowledge as to how wireless
> telephone numbers (as opposed to land line telephone numbers) are
> identified in Australia, Israel, Italy, Japan, Netherlands,
> Switzerland, Spain, the U.K., Belgium, etc.?

In the UK all geographical area codes (i.e. fixed lines) start 1 or 2
(i.e. 01... or 02... within the UK or +44 1... or +44 2...
internationally). Other codes are non-geographical and most of these
to which international calls are possible would be mobiles (others are
for toll free, premium rate, personal numbers etc.). There is a
reorganisation of the non-geographical area codes currently in
progress.  When this is finished all mobile and personal numbers will
have codes starting with 7.

In Ireland the codes for mobiles are 86, 87 and 88 and there are
currently no other codes starting 8 to which international calls can be
made.

Most European telecom regulators publish details of their numbering
plans, in some cases on the internet -- it may be useful to check their
web sites (e.g. www.oftel.gov.uk for the U.K. and www.odtr.ie for
Ireland).

As an aside a similar problem occurs when ringing NANP numbers from
elsewhere -- without a complete list of current area codes it is not
possible to distinguish between a relatively cheap call to the USA or
Canada and an expensive one to the Carribean.


David Charles

------------------------------

From: djpoopoo@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: ANACs in Bay Area
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:09:24 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


Yeah, I saw those in a 2600 FAQ.  However, that's pretty old and none of
the 415 ones work -- at least not for the areas I tried.

Thanks,

M

In article <telecom19.241.9@telecom-digest.org>, MMX <mmx@
DELETEMEunibiz.net> wrote:

> djpoopoo@my-deja.com wrote in message:

>> Does anyone know the working ANACs for San Francisco to San Jose?
>> That would be 415, 650 and 408 area codes.  I can also provide a list of
>> CLLI codes if that helps anyone.

> (408):
> 760
> 940

> (415):
> 200-555-1212
> 211-2111
> 2222
> 640
> 760-2878
> 7600-2222

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jul 1999 14:23:02 -0400
From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine)
Subject: Re: 1411 vs. 411 (Was Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA


>> But then SWB also uses 1411 for DA ... NOT 411 (STUPID!!!)

> SWB in Houston also does this.  I believe it's a holdover from when
> certain switches such as the step-by-step switches needed some way to
> "bill" the calls when SWB started to charge for Information (nee
> directory assistance.)

DA in Connecticut was 1411 as far back as I can remember, long before
anyone thought of charging for it.

More likely it was that step switches needed the 1+ to hand the call off
to a long-distance tandem that would connect to the DA bureau.


John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869
johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, 
Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail

------------------------------

From: mattack@area.com (Matt Ackeret)
Subject: Re: A Week We Won't Forget!
Date: 22 Jul 1999 11:31:12 -0700
Organization: Area Systems in Mountain View, CA - http://www.area.com


In article <telecom19.239.7@telecom-digest.org>, the moderator wrote:

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Don Kimberlin is the person who wrote
> the text for http://telecom-digest.org/camelot-on-the-moon.html which
> describes the challenges faced in telecommunications on that never-to-
> be-forgotten voyage. I wonder if I will see in my own lifetime space
> travel as a routine thing? 

Sure, it's not going to the moon or Mars, but do you discount space
shuttle flights?  (I already realize that this is probably not
counting Earth orbit as "space travel.")

Even after the Challenger accident, they have once again become fairly
routine (though not once a week like I believe they were originally
intended for).  Heck, aren't some of the satellites put into orbit
commercial satellites?  So it's gotten routine enough to be used for
other than governmental purposes. 


mattack@area.com

------------------------------

From: someone@teleport.com (John Bartley)
Subject: Need 3xBRI ISDN Routing Switch For H.320 Set Top Box
Reply-To: john_bartley@orb.uscourts.gov
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:02:31 GMT


Need to purchase two (2) automatic line router switches for 3 BRI ISDN
lines used for H.320 set-top videoconferencing.

Want to have a _simple_ way to redirect our three BRI ISDN lines from
one location to another, so we can easily connect when we move the
videoconference gear from one room to another.  We have home-run Cat5
cabling all over our offices.

Have found the ALRS from RelCom Technologies (800-657-5910).

Are there any other vendors out there?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:57:24 -0700
Subject: Followup: Monophone (AE Model 40) Wiring Diagram Needed
From: Keelan Lightfoot <keelan@mail.bzzzzzz.com>


I have recieved the wiring diagrams for this telephone, and thanks to
all those that offered information. I see that I created a little
confusion, and at the slip of a key, called the Model 80 the
Monophone. I meant 40. Too late now, anyway :)

Thanks for all the help.


Keelan Lightfoot

------------------------------

From: Peter J. Gregoire <PG111669@exchange.ColumbiaSC.NCR.com>
Subject: GTE and COCOT
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:24:16 -0400


Hello Patrick,

I am currently working towards my BSBA degree.  In my marketing class,
I have to do a case study analysis about GTE and the Pay-Phone Market
(COCOT).  I was disappointed with the information (or lack there of) I
was not able to find on the GTE home Page (www.gte.com) about Pay
Telephones.  I was wondering if your resources had any information
about GTE and the COCOT market.

You can reply to either my work or my home email address:

work:	peter.gregoire@columbiasc.ncr.com
home: 	pjgclg@mindspring.com

Thank you for any information or links you can provide.


Peter J. Gregoire

Taken From:		PETER'S LAWS  TM
	The Creed of the Sociopathic Obsessive Compulsive
Rule # 1:  If anything can go wrong, Fix It!
	   (To Hell with Murphy!)

------------------------------

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: www. prefixes
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:36:00 PST
Organization: Shadownet


Derek J. Balling <dredd@megacity.org> writes:

>> Until then we can have the root named machines handle http.
>> I came from a school of programming where the programmer had to
>> anticipate the errors of the user and the program must 1) not crash on
>> bad data and 2) use bad data to the best of its ability.  Browsers
>> have embraced this school of thought.  Just look at all the garbage
>> one can type in the GO TO line and still get a site!  A far cry from
>> Lynx where (last time I checked) one still had to type http:// .

Funny, the version of Lynx I use from my shell account will accept
things like "nanpa" and assume the "http://" and then try adding
various domains and subdomains until it makes a match or runs out of
things to try.

And it's not terribly up to date.


Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com	<--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com	<--last resort

------------------------------

From: Seymour Dupa <grumpy@bigbird.en.com>
Subject: Re: 800, 888, 877, 866, 855, 844, 833, 822, 811, ???
Organization: Exchange Network Services, Inc.
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:35:33 GMT


Two apologies:

Mark J Cuccia <mcuccia@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu> wrote:

> Seymour Dupa (grumpy@bigbird.en.com) wrote:

>> What's going to come after 811?

>> When 800 got used up, instead of going to 888, 877, etc, they should
>> have gone to 801, 802, 803, ...

> and PAT (editor@telecom-digest.org) replied:

>> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I don't think the people living in 801,
>> 802 and 803-land would would have liked that decision very much. After
>> the last available choices are used up in 811, hopefully we will have
>> gone to some entirely new numbering system. PAT]

#1. I did not know there were area codes 801, 802 and 803.

> Well, first, you will _NOT_ have 811 being used as a geographic/POTS NPA
> nor as a SAC (non-geographic "Special" Area Code). It is one of the
> special LOCAL access 3-digit "N11" codes that can NOT be used for NPA
> purposes.

> In many areas of the country, 811 has traditionally been used to call the
> telco Business Offices. This was the traditional use in most Panel and

#2. I did not know 811 is a 'special' code.  So I guess I should have
said, "What will come after the last available code in the series 800,
888, 877 ...?


Sincerely,

Telecomm code challenged John

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #245
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Fri Jul 23 03:41:08 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA20721;
	Fri, 23 Jul 1999 03:41:08 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 03:41:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907230741.DAA20721@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #246

TELECOM Digest     Fri, 23 Jul 99 03:41:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 246

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea (Richard Freeman)
    Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea (Walter Dnes)
    Re: Building an ISP - 1500' From the CO Boundry (Terry Kennedy)
    Re: Building an ISP - 1500' From the CO Boundry (Keelan Lightfoot)
    Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California (L Madison)
    Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California (J Singer)
    Re: 1411 vs. 411 (Was Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free (Stanley Cline)
    Re: A Week We Won't Forget! (Bill Newkirk)
    Re: Satellite GPS Can Locate Wireless Phones Within 15 Feet (Bill Newkirk)
    Last Laugh! The Next Decade - The Naughties? (Brad Houser)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: rfreeman@netaxs.com (Richard Freeman)
Subject: Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea
Date: 22 Jul 1999 20:42:02 GMT
Organization: newsread.com ISP News Reading Service (http://www.newsread.com)


On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:35:37 -0400, 
Jack Decker <jack@novagate.REMOVE-THIS.com.content.net> wrote:

> On 20 Jul 1999 23:25:53 -0500, nospam@elmhurst.msg.net (nospam) writes:

>> What's worse, in order for this to work you MUST reveal your pop account
>> password to Bright Light, and every time you use the service your account
>> password is passed in cleartext across the internet. Most likely the ISP
>> allows you to use this same password for dialup, ftp, shell, etc.

> But, they claim they don't store it, and until someone proves
> otherwise, I believe them.  To me, spam is SO offensive and such a
> headache that I am willing to take the potential risk.

Actually, I don't think you get the point.  The problem isn't a matter
of trusting Bright Light.  If the password were encrypted enroute,
then the problem would be trusting them.  The real problem is that
Bright Light doens't have exclusive control over your password.  When
a cleartext password is sent from your computer to theirs there are
several ways to compromise it:

1.  The obvious -- they can store and abuse it -- you admit this and
say you trust them.  I would hesitate on that, but I don't consider
this the worst possible problem, since if they abuse lots of passwords
they would get caught most likely and it is obvious they have access
to the password so an investigation would be likely to find them out.

2.  The trip from your computer to theirs.  A cleartext password
passes first to your ISP's router.  From there it hops all over the
country over routers belonging to big telecoms like sprint, MAE, etc
 ... at any point interception is possible, and not tracable for the
most part.

3.  Likewise, they send it from them to your ISP -- same thing applies.

#'s 2 and 3 are the real threat -- since they aren't obvious targets
of investigation in the event of a password breach there is not the
same kind of accountability.

Normally, if you dial in to an ISP and check email at your ISP, the
password is sent cleartext from your computer, to the ISP router, to
their POP server -- it never leaves the property of your local telco
or ISP.  As a result, hacking is much more limited.  Your ISP being
able to intercept your password isn't much of a threat (although
storing hashed passwords like unix is still a good move) - they can
read your email at will anyway and can change passwords at will as
well...  Tapping a phone line to intercept a password is also
laborious for the amount of traffic it intercepts.  On the other hand,
hacking a router close to Bright Light would yield tons of passwords
with only a single site compromise.

Is it likely -- no.  Neither is any other SINGLE site likely to get
hacked, but you significantly raise your exposure by sending passwords
in the clear all over the world ... Really -- somebody needs to come
up with a encrypted POP standard that gets implemented in the standard
unix config and becomes a default on all the major email software ...

As far as somebody's claims about APOP -- if it does encrypt them over
the net, I don't think plaintext on the server is a real problem.
After all, the protocol deals with communication -- not with how it
gets stored on the server.  Changing the local storage of passwords
shouldn't interfere with software that uses APOP from the client side.


Richard T. Freeman <rfreeman@netaxs.com> - finger for pgp key
3D CB AF BD FF E8 0B 10 4E 09 27 00 8D 27 E1 93 
http://www.netaxs.com/~rfreeman - ftp.netaxs.com/people/rfreeman

------------------------------

From: waltdnes@interlog.com (Walter Dnes)
Subject: Re: "Bright Light" POP Spam Filtering: A Bad Idea
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:26:49 GMT
Organization: Interlog Internet Services


I use a procmail filter, and publish it on my webpage.  I have no
income from the webpage (no banners, etc).

On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:35:37 -0400, Jack Decker
<jack@novagate.REMOVE-THIS.com.content.net> wrote:

> Well if they care so much, why don't they set up their own
> spam filtering?

One size does not fit all.  Some customers are more willing to risk
false positives in order to stop spam than others.  An ISP that offers
procmail gives users the choice.  If the MTA is Exim, it can *FLAG*
suspect email, and let the clients take their own risks in deciding
what to reject.  In today's litigacious society, any ISP with deep
pockets is a potential target for a mega-lawsuit for any dropped
messages.

> As I understand it, Bright Light offer their service to ISP's.

But not for free!!!

> Well, first of all, when I transmit my password directly to my ISP,
> it still goes clear text, so Bright Light isn't doing anything other
> than what my ISP already does.

Wrong.  When I dial up my ISP (Interlog), the password traverses a few
miles of phone line.  I'm not saying that wiretapping is impossible,
but it is more difficult.

There are a lot more people with packet-sniffers, and packet-sniffing
is more difficult to detect.  And packets from me to Brightlight
traverse half the continent.

D:\>tracert brightlight.com

Tracing route to brightlight.com [157.130.198.238]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1   139 ms   141 ms   128 ms  pm3-28.toronto.interlog.com [209.20.42.38]
  2   140 ms   121 ms   136 ms  fa1-0.core2.toronto.interlog.net [209.20.42.1]
  3   139 ms   128 ms   136 ms  fa0-0.core1.toronto.interlog.net [207.34.202.1]
  4   141 ms   127 ms   137 ms  interlog-gw.vl1000.f000.bb1.tor2.uunet.ca [205.150.221.65]
  5   139 ms   137 ms   133 ms  1.a10-0-0.cr2.tor2.uunet.ca [205.150.159.105]
  6   153 ms   154 ms     *     ATM11-0-0.BR2.TCO1.ALTER.NET [137.39.250.69]
  7   156 ms   149 ms   149 ms  112.ATM3-0.XR2.TCO1.ALTER.NET [146.188.160.86]
  8   144 ms   151 ms   150 ms  192.ATM3-0.TR2.DCA1.ALTER.NET [146.188.161.186]
  9   206 ms   210 ms   209 ms  101.ATM6-0.TR2.SCL1.ALTER.NET [146.188.136.226]
 10   209 ms   208 ms   208 ms  298.ATM7-0.XR2.SFO1.ALTER.NET [146.188.147.173]
 11   206 ms   210 ms   215 ms  186.ATM10-0-0.GW1.SFO1.ALTER.NET [146.188.148.173]
 12   230 ms   235 ms   232 ms  brightlight.com [157.130.198.238]

Trace complete.


Walter Dnes <waltdnes@interlog.com> procmail spamfilter
http://www.interlog.com/~waltdnes/spamdunk/spamdunk.htm
Why a fiscal conservative opposes Toronto 2008 OWE-lympics
http://www.interlog.com/~waltdnes/owe-lympics/owe-lympics.htm

------------------------------

From: Terry Kennedy <terry@spcunb.spc.edu>
Subject: Re: Building an ISP - 1500' From the CO Boundry
Organization: St. Peter's College, US
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:56:28 GMT


John R. Levine <johnl@iecc.com> writes:

> You can have the telco install phone lines anywhere you want.  But
> there's the tiny issue of "extending" the lines back from your
> neighbor's property to your office.  You can't just string wires
> across the road.  If you have an extremely cooperative PUC and local
> government, you might be able to get permits to run wires in the road
> right of way and make a deal with whoever owns the phone poles (telco
> or electric company most likely) to attach your wires to the poles,
> but that's going to take forever and cost too much.

Pole rental isn't that complicated -- I rent space on the poles
between my office and my house for some fiber. Here in Northern NJ
it's $4.77 per pole per year, $100/year minimum bill. You also have to
provide $1M in liability insurance, a 24 x 7 repair contact (in case a
drunk hits a pole you're on and your attachments need to be moved),
and you have to pay for a taller pole or for other attachments to be
moved if there isn't enough space on the pole for you.

> The straightforward approach is to install a rack in your neighbor's
> building with the Portmaster or whatever kind of modem bank you plan
> to use, so you just need to run a single high-speed line back to the
> office.  If you can see the roof of one building from the other, there
> are several moderately priced wireless systems that will give you T1
> or better speed.  Or at worst, find out how much the telco will charge
> you for a T1 from the neighbor to you.  Most telcos charge by the
> mile, and a 1/2 mile T1 would probably be pretty cheap.

True. But I don't see why a modern-day ISP would be terminating
customer calls on analog modems -- don't all customers expect 56K
support these days?  I'd suggest getting the service delivered on a T1
(probably PRI, as it's usually cheaper than DID-style T1's, due to
antiquated telco pricing ideas) and then get a Frame Relay link
between that site and the main site (since many areas offer
distance-insensitive FR).

> If all this seems like too much hassle, you probably shouldn't be in
> the ISP business.  This is nothing compared to other stuff you'll have
> to deal with.

Yup. But these days folks think that anyone can be an ISP. I started
one 5+ years ago, and the entry costs are higher now. Unless there's
a) a *lot* of money available, or b) a clearly-identified niche
market, I think that most ISP startups are likely to fail (or be
acquired at a loss to the original investors) within 18 months.


	Terry Kennedy		  Operations Manager, Academic Computing
	terry@spcvxa.spc.edu	  St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA
        +1 201 915 9381 (voice)   +1 201 435-3662 (FAX)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:37:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Building an ISP - 1500' From the CO Boundry
From: Keelan Lightfoot <keelan@mail.bzzzzzz.com>


> The problem we have is with location.  Our current location is 1500'
> from the CO boundry.  If we were 1500' to the west we could get local
> phone numbers in an exchange that is local to most of the population
> of two counties.  In our current building we can only reach half of
> that population (our county).  The dividing line is a county road --
> both sides are in the same county, same state.

What about putting the portmaster (, etc. I'm not in the business) in
the neighbor's building, and adding a wireless ethernet link between
that building and yours? Because of the extreme cost of getting any
sort of fast data connection between anything in my town, the local
ISP used this to connect their office to the high school (About a 10
minute walk from each other.)

This would probably be cheaper than a pole line solution.


Keelan Lightfoot

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:11:58 -0700
From: Linc Madison <LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com>
Subject: Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California


In article <telecom19.244.11@telecom-digest.org>, Ed Ellers
<ed_ellers@msn.com> wrote:

> Thomas A. Horsley (Tom.Horsley@worldnet.att.net) wrote:

>> I really don't understand what people have against overlays. Do they
>> enjoy having to make sure everyone they ever gave their phone number
>> to gets their new number?

> That's not the case at all, because the seven-digit number does not
> change, only the area code associated with that *area.* If you know
> someone in western Kentucky (formerly area code 502), when the area
> code split a few months ago all you had to remember was that your
> friends in Louisville are still in 502 and your friends in Bowling
> Green, Mayfield, Henderson, etc.  are now in 270.  With an overlay
> you'd have the situation where different numbers *in the same place*
> could have different area codes, so for example you'd have to remember
> that Wally's office number and his cellular phone are still in 502 but
> Mary Ellen's new PCS phone is in 270, even though all are in the same
> rate center.

Okay, then explain to me how you know which of your friends and
business contacts are now in 213, 323, 310, 562, 818, and 626.  Which
side of La Cienega was that store on?  And gosh, Joe lives just off
Wilshire Blvd, but I don't remember the cross street.

>> Why does the outrage always come from having to dial four more digits?

> Because in a typical overlay situation you end up having to dial *the
> same digits* (maybe three, maybe four) for almost every call, since
> the vast majority of the local calls you make would stay in the
> existing area code.  If the overlay had gone through I'd have to
> prefix "502" on 90% of the calls I make every day and "812" (for local
> calls to southern Indiana) on almost all the rest, because it would be
> some time until a significant number of the people I call would have
> new 270 numbers.

Kentucky was certainly not the best case for an overlay.  But even so,
you'd have been seeing 270 numbers within a few months, just the way
that it took a while before you started seeing significant quantities
of 888 numbers along with 800, and you're now starting to see 877 more.

If the 310/424 overlay goes through, overnight 10% of the active
prefixes will be in the new code, and within about two years about a
third of customer numbers will be in 424.  The AreaCode-Info.com web
site has a news item about the Denver city offices changing to area
code 720.

>> The most ridiculous thing about the four digit outrage is that if
>> you keep splitting the area codes instead of doing overlays, pretty
>> soon your "next door neighbor" (the standard example in all the
>> outrage stories) is in a different area code anyway!

> Only for the small percentage of people who live or work along the new
> boundary -- and they'd already be in different prefixes anyway, so
> remembering that they are now in a new area code won't be that tough.

Not necessarily, and not necessarily.  First of all, it's for the
people who live somewhere near the boundary.  The entirety of 213 is
within two miles of the 323 boundary; that was a ridiculous split that
should unquestionably have been an overlay instead.

Secondly, more and more splits are now being done along political
boundaries rather than rate center boundaries.  Personally, I think
it's foolish, but if you have two numbers that used to be 612-322-xxxx,
one might now be 651 while the other is still 612, and you can't even
tell by the city name or ZIP Code in the street address, since there
are several ZIP Code areas that straddle the new area code boundary. 
Long Island might be a little easier, since ZIP Code lines are more
likely to exactly follow town and county boundaries there than in the
Minne-Apple.

> In short, with a split you not only don't have to dial the same three
> or four digits over and over, but you still know what the area code is
> for a given place.  With a general overlay you don't.

See my comments on Los Angeles above.  Or take a look at the proposed
split boundary for 415 in the last round of relief.  Do *you* know
which of your friends are in San Francisco Central as opposed to San
Francisco Montrose-Evergreen?  The rate center boundary zigs and zags
down tiny little side streets.  I live here and I'm a telecom numbering
freak, and *I* don't know where the boundary is.  A friend of mine
moved from one apartment in Montrose to another apartment in Montrose,
but the obvious direct route between them is mostly in Central, and if
you go four blocks south you're in Juniper.

The bottom line: splits make much more sense in large areas, especially
if they contain multiple metropolitan areas.  Overlays make much more
sense in dense metropolitan areas where any split is dividing a city on
a building-by-building level.  Thus, 760 is splitting, but 415 will
overlay, and 707, a combination of both kinds of territory, will (most
likely) split and then overlay the densely populated part.  I wouldn't
support an overlay of the entire 707, nor would I support a split that
divided Sonoma/Napa/Solano Counties.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:54:12 -0700
From: Joseph Singer <dov@oz.net>
Subject: Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California


Ed Ellers <ed_ellers@msn.com> wrote:

> That's not the case at all, because the seven-digit number does not
> change, only the area code associated with that *area.* If you know
> someone in western Kentucky (formerly area code 502), when the area
> code split a few months ago all you had to remember was that your
> friends in Louisville are still in 502 and your friends in Bowling
> Green, Mayfield, Henderson, etc.  are now in 270.  With an overlay
> you'd have the situation where different numbers *in the same place*
> could have different area codes, so for example you'd have to remember
> that Wally's office number and his cellular phone are still in 502 but
> Mary Ellen's new PCS phone is in 270, even though all are in the same
> rate center.

I'm afraid what it's going to come down to is that you're going to
have to remember a ten-digit number rather than the seven that you
have referred to for years.  If everyone quotes their number as all
ten digits there's no confusion at all.  I'll grant you that it is ten
digits rather than seven, but the reality is that we're moving into a
minimum ten digit era.

>> Why does the outrage always come from having to dial four more digits?

> Because in a typical overlay situation you end up having to dial *the
> same digits* (maybe three, maybe four) for almost every call, since
> the vast majority of the local calls you make would stay in the
> existing area code.  If the overlay had gone through I'd have to
> prefix "502" on 90% of the calls I make every day and "812" (for local
> calls to southern Indiana) on almost all the rest, because it would be
> some time until a significant number of the people I call would have
> new 270 numbers.

Well, permissive dialing across area codes with seven digits is almost
not in existence at all anymore.  If we had the same number of phones
to deal with today as we did 40 years ago we'd make due with the
numbering plans that were in existence then.  When you factor in the
need for phone numbers for other phone needs such as extra lines for
data/fax/cellular/pager and of course the biggest grabber of numbering
space is competitive local exchange carriers (CLECs.)

>> The most ridiculous thing about the four digit outrage is that if
>> you keep splitting the area codes instead of doing overlays, pretty
>> soon your "next door neighbor" (the standard example in all the
>> outrage stories) is in a different area code anyway!

> Only for the small percentage of people who live or work along the new
> boundary -- and they'd already be in different prefixes anyway, so
> remembering that they are now in a new area code won't be that tough.
> A good analogy would be to a conversion from four-, five- or six-digit
> local numbers to seven digits in the 1950s; it was easy to remember
> that all the New Albany numbers (which had been four digits) now began
> with WHitehall 1, all the Jeffersonville numbers (five digits) now
> started with BUtler followed by the existing number, and all the
> ARlington numbers in Louisville (which had had six digits) now are
> SPring 6 followed by the last four digits.

But this only shows that with the increase in need for numbering you
needed to change the number format.  Assigning a new overlay to the
same area isn't forcing anyone to change their number and all the
expense and inconvenience that goes with it.  There are areas of the
US that have had their area code changed three or four times within
the last ten years!  How are you going to be sure that every contact
that you have is aware that you no longer are in 616 or 505?  If you
don't conscientiously contact anyone and everyone that you've ever had
a contact with that you now basically have a new phone number
someone's going to lose in the process and it will be you if they are
not aware of your new area code.

> In short, with a split you not only don't have to dial the same three
> or four digits over and over, but you still know what the area code is
> for a given place.  With a general overlay you don't.

As it stands with overlays at the present time there usually isn't
more than one or two overlays for an area.  There's a point in the
number relief process that it's smarter to "bite the bullet" and do an
overlay rather than make arbitrary decisions on area splits.

As we've all seen there doesn't appear to be any consensus of opinion
on which is the better solution to numbering space shortage, but
*something* has to be done.  Acting like there's no problem as some
legislators do is no solution to the problem.


Joseph Singer    Seattle, Washington USA  <mailto:dov@oz.net> 
<http://welcome.to/dov>  <http://wwp.mirabilis.com/460262> [ICQ pgr] 
+1 206 405 2052 [msg] +1 707 516 0561 [FAX] Seattle, Washington USA

------------------------------

From: sc1@roamer1.org (Stanley Cline)
Subject: Re: 1411 vs. 411 (Was Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:56:32 GMT
Organization: by area code and prefix (NPA-NXX)
Reply-To: sc1@roamer1.org


On 22 Jul 1999 14:23:02 -0400, johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) wrote:

> DA in Connecticut was 1411 as far back as I can remember, long before
> anyone thought of charging for it.

BellSouth uses 411 in former Southern Bell areas (FL, NC, SC, most of
GA), and 1+411 in former South Central Bell areas (AL, KY, LA, MS, TN,
and very small parts of GA that adjoin TN and AL).  Local DA is still
totally free from residential lines in TN!

Independents tend to use whatever BellSouth uses in a given area;
however, ALLTEL requires 1+411 in parts of GA that aren't in the
Chattanooga LATA.


SC

------------------------------

From: Bill Newkirk <wnewkirk@iu.net>
Subject: Re: A Week We Won't Forget!
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:55:19 -0400
Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com


I guess it would have helped if there was someplace to go ... right
now, we'll have to build it all (not that we can't).

John D. Sneed wrote in message ...

> Cronkite was at a momentary loss for words, and it brought tears to my
> eyes.  Now we are at Day One of Year Thirty-One, and the race is still
> stuck on Sol III.  Sad ...

[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Thursday night I followed coverage here
on the Internet of the first lady off into space serving as the super-
vising officer of the mission. The two attempts over the past two days
were both aborted because of various circumstances, but the third time
it went off without a hitch. Oh, how I wish I could be part of something
like that! I certainly hope that some modicum of 'routine' (as in avail-
able to the general public) space flight becomes possible in my life-
time. I wonder if anytime, ever, travel will be possible to more distant
areas of the universe? I sat in the park tonight (actually, was laying
on a park bench) about midnight for a couple hours just looking up
at the sky. I saw this very tiny, very distant star which was so faint
that I really had to stare and fix my eyes to see it at all ... and
wondered to myself what it would be like looking back at Earth from
that distance. I cannot imagine ever overcoming the distance involved
in ever going to visit those places. But perhaps some day we will get
visitors here from one of those places; they will have started out
a million years before on their voyage, and they will tell us how it
is done. PAT] 

------------------------------

From: Bill Newkirk <wnewkirk@iu.net>
Subject: Re: Satellite GPS Can Locate Wireless Phones Within 15 Feet
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:10:47 -0400
Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com


Yeah, but by the time we get around to the next generation shows, it seems
that everyone is in Starfleet.

(contrast to babylon 5 where not everyone was an EA officer,
An'La'Shak/ranger, Psi Cop, etc.).


Dale Farmer wrote in message ...

> Bill Newkirk wrote:

>> Isn't this what the crew in Star Trek has with their "badges"? if they
>> have their comm-badge with 'em, they can be located OR selectively
>> called by the ship or others in the away team?

>> The folks in the Federation don't seem to mind having a universal
>> locator/pager/telephone they wear just about 100% of the time.

>> So it must certainly be just fine in the future ... and the future
>> must be like star trek, right?

> To be a bit pedantic, the Star Trek communicators are worn by the
> members of starfleet, a military organization.  The military person
> works under a very different set of constraints and functions than a
> civilian.  So even avoiding your tongue in cheek bit, the analogy does
> not hold up.

------------------------------

From: Brad Houser <brad.houser@intel.com>
Subject: Last Laugh! The Next Decade - The Naughties?
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:49:25 -0700
Organization: Intel Corporation


Matt Ackeret <mattack@area.com> wrote in message news:telecom19.242.10@
telecom-digest.org:

> "The decade of the '90s" is a strange way to phrase it.  "The '90s",
> meaning the 1990s, does in fact start on Jan 1, 1990, and go through
> Dec 31, 1999.  That is _a_ decade, because it contains a full ten
> years.

Not to change the subject, but what will we call the next decade?

The "zeros" sounds too limited.

The "ohs" perpetuates the confusion over O (the letter) and 0 (the
number).  [TELECOM Content: although phones still show "Oper" above
the 0 key.)

The "ones", while it may be the correct digit in the decimal system,
doesn't quite have that intuitive ring.

Since "Naught" is a synonym for zero, we could call them the
"Naughties", or we could resurrect the archaic alternative, "aught"
and we could have the "Aughties"

How about the "Zilchies"? The "Goose eggs"? The "Nils"?

I know, let's look back at the last time we had this problem. Wasn't
it the "Turn of the Century"? Well we can make it the "Turn of the
Millenium" or TOTM for short, which us techies would pronounce
"Totem".

So cast your votes, I like the "Naughties" myself.


Brad Houser

"Not speaking for Intel"


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I sort of like 'Naughties' myself. 
Any suggestions from anyone else?   PAT]

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #246
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Fri Jul 23 04:26:25 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA22125;
	Fri, 23 Jul 1999 04:26:25 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 04:26:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907230826.EAA22125@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #247

TELECOM Digest     Fri, 23 Jul 99 04:26:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 247

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Simson Says: The Neighbors Are Watching (Monty Solomon)
    Re: How to Identify a Wireless Number? (Michael S. Berlant)
    Re: No PIC Selection Question (Linc Madison)
    Your License or Your Life (Monty Solomon)
    Re: 1411 vs. 411 (Was Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free (Linc Madison)
    Industry Crypto Bill in Peril (Monty Solomon)
    Internet Historical Society / Internet Pioneers (TELECOM Digest Editor)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 02:52:26 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Simson Says: The Neighbors Are Watching


Forwarded FYI:

  Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:55:18 -0400
  Subject: SIMSON SAYS: The neighbors are watching 
  From: simsong@acm.org

PLUGGED IN
The neighbors are watching

Cable modem can threaten your computer's security if you're not careful

By Simson L. Garfinkel, 07/15/99

In April I got this e-mail from a reader in California: ''My associate
recently installed cable modem in her home and was shocked to find
that 'Network Neighborhood' was, literally, her neighborhood! She
could see the desktops of all her connected neighbors. This seems like
an enormous oversight on the part of cable modem companies, or maybe
they just don't care (more likely the latter.) In any case, I think it
is important for cable modem users to realize the risks of being
connected to the Internet 24 hours a day, and the other
vulnerabilities associated with cable modem. What do you think?''

I think that stories like this are becoming far too common.

The particular problem that the person in California is experiencing
has to do with the way the Windows operating systems does
networking. Because it is common for people in offices to share files
and printers, Microsoft made file sharing very easy in its Windows
operating system: Just click ''share'' and off you go. This lax
approach to security was understandable in 1994, when Microsoft
designed most of this technology: Then, most local-area networks were
confined to corporate offices - offices in which it was more important
to make files and printers easily available over the network than to
try to keep them secret.

Unfortunately, the networking protocols used by today's cable modem
systems are very similar to those used in a typical office network -
indeed, most neighborhood cable systems look like one big local area
network. This similarity is responsible for the low price of cable
modem access - much of the technology is recycled from other parts of
the computer industry. But the recycling brings with it many security
problems, as the California reader's associate is experiencing.

Unauthorized file sharing is less of a problem for people with
MediaOne cable modems in the Boston area. This is because MediaOne
blocks Microsoft's file sharing protocol by default. But file sharing
can still be a problem for Macintosh users. As recently as a year ago,
a friend of mine in Wellesley was able to see printers and computers
belonging to other Macs in his neighborhood using his computer's
''Chooser'' program. He could even print messages on other people's
printers - and sometimes he got surprising printouts on his own.

The best way to protect yourself from unauthorized file and printer
sharing is to disable these services on your computers. If you need
file sharing - for example, if you have two computers on the same
network - then you should create user names and passwords.

Another alternative that is more expensive but much more secure is to
set up a firewall to isolate your internal network from the cable
modem network. A friend bought such a firewall, called the ''Sonic
Wall.'' It cost $500 for the basic configuration.

This whole issue of cable modem security was driven home to me on
Sunday morning, when somebody attacked a computer that I was setting
up in my study. I had just finished a new operating system on the
computer that's connected to my MediaOne cable modem, when a warning
message flashed on the screen: Somebody else on the network was trying
to break into my system using a well-known security hole in a program
called ''portmap.''

The portmap attack is classic: I wrote about it in 1990 when I
published my first book on UNIX computer security. Unfortunately,
there are many computers on the Internet that are still susceptible to
this attack.  Somebody else on my network was scanning all of the
computers in the neighborhood, trying to see whether any were
vulnerable. If I had been running an older operating system, that
person could have broken into my machine and taken it over.

Why would somebody want to break into my machine? The answer is
access. If an attacker can break into somebody's home computer on the
MediaOne network, he can then use that machine as a jumping-off point
for breaking into other computers on the Internet. By jumping from one
machine to a second and a third, an attacker can weave a path that
effectively hides his tracks.

Richard D. Jenkinson, Media One's director of communications and
public affairs for the Northeast region, says problems such as being
able to browse somebody's computers or being targeted in a portmap
attack aren't limited to cable modems. ''Any Internet user should be
concerned about security, whether they have a cable modem, DSL, or
dial-up connection.''

Nevertheless, attackers do seem to be increasingly targeting home
computers that are connected to cable modems or high-speed DSL
lines. One reason is the speed: Because a cable modem is 50 times
faster than a standard dial-up, a bad guy can launch 50 attacks
against a cable modem user in the time it takes to launch a single
attack against somebody over a dial-up. This increases the chances of
actually breaking in.

Meanwhile, because high-speed connections are ''always on,'' people
frequently leave their computers connected to the Net and unattended
for long periods. Because it's much harder to get caught breaking into
a computer when nobody is watching the machine, this makes these
computers all the more vulnerable.

If you have a computer that is attached to the Internet, it's
important to take precautions to protect your safety. One of the most
important things is to make sure your software is up to date. No
matter whether you are running UNIX, Linux, Windows, or MacOS, be sure
to check the Web for security alerts. When bug fixes come out, be sure
to download and install them as soon as you can.

The second thing to do is avoid running programs people send you by
e-mail.  Although most programs sent by e-mail are harmless, a growing
number are actually computer viruses or other kinds of ''Trojan
Horses.'' These programs can damage your system within a split second,
and often there is no way to easily tell that damage has been done.

For Net security tips, see MediaOne's Usenet security group, roadrunner.
techtalk.security. Or click on ''member services'' at www.mediaone.rr.com/
to get a list of security bulletins.


Technology writer Simson L. Garfinkel can be reached at plugged-in
SIMSON-SAYS is Simson's column on computer issues that appears weekly
in various newspapers.

Please feel free to pass this column on to a friend. 
If you wish to subscribe to SIMSON-SAYS, just send an e-mail message
with the word "subscribe" as its first line to simson-says@vineyard.net.

This message (C) Simson L. Garfinkel. 

------------------------------

From: Michael S. Berlant <MichaelS.Berlant@eds.NOSPAM.com>
Subject: Re: How to Identify a Wireless Number?
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:29:02 +0900
Organization: Professional EDS Vagabond


Singapore wireless numbers, both pager and cellular, are eight digits
long and begin with 9.  (+65 9xxx-xxxx) All other phone numbers are
seven digits long and do not begin with 9.  Airtime is paid by the
wireless subscriber, so you needn't worry about them for the moment.

Malaysia wireless numbers are all in NPAs 01x.  (+60 1x xxx-xxxx) 
Airtime is paid by the wireless subscriber.

Thailand wireless numbers are all in NPA 01.  (+66 1 xxx-xxxx)  Airtime
is paid by the wireless subscriber.

Philippines wireless numbers are all in NPAs 09xx.  (+63 9xx xxx-xxxx) 
Airtime is paid by the wireless subscriber.

Chinese wireless numbers are all in NPAs 08 and 09.  (+86 8 xxx-xxxx or
+86 9 xxx-xxxx)  I don't know who pays.

Japanese wireless numbers are all in NPAs 090 and 070.  (+81 90
xxxx-xxxx or +81 70 xxxx-xxxx)  CALLER PAYS FOR AIRTIME.

New Zealand wireless numbers are in NPAs 02x.  (+64 2x xxx-xxx)  I don't
know who pays.

Taiwan wireless numbers are NPA 09.  (+886 9 xxxx-xxxx)  I don't know
who pays.

I hope this helps.

Admin wrote:
 
> Do any of the listers have specific knowledge as to how wireless
> telephone numbers (as opposed to land line telephone numbers) are
> identified in Australia, Israel, Italy, Japan, Netherlands,
> Switzerland, Spain, the U.K., Belgium, etc.?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:31:00 -0700
From: Linc Madison <LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com>
Subject: Re: No PIC Selection Question


In article <telecom19.244.5@telecom-digest.org>, Ed Ellers
<ed_ellers@msn.com> wrote:

> Linc Madison (LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com) wrote:

>> The FCC has ordered that your chosen long-distance company will now
>> pay a flat monthly fee to subsidize your local service. This was one
>> of the worst FCC rulings in a long time.  If you want to make the flat
>> monthly price of local service more closely reflect the flat monthly
>> cost of providing the service, then put that through as an increase in
>> the basic monthly rate; don't filter it through an extra layer of
>> accounting."

> But, of course, that would take away Federal power and give it back to
> the states' utility commissions, which as we "know" are run by
> incompetent political hacks who aren't capable of setting a fair rate
> for telephone service, right?

Not necessarily.  The FCC can still mandate the amount, just as they do
with the existing SLC.  I don't care whether the FCC or PUC declares
some part of my monthly bill to be related to "interstate network" as
opposed to local service (a bogus distinction in my view); my main
complaint is with funneling the fee through the IXCs.  The extra layer
of accounting serves no purpose, and causes problems.

> Seriously, *some* Federal preemption has been a good thing (such as
> the Part 68 rules that allow us to buy our own telephone sets), but
> the idea of the FCC telling telcos that they have to charge X more
> than the state will allow them to is just asinine.

It's all a smoke-and-mirrors game.  We used to have subsidies from
long-distance rates to pay for the true cost of local service.  Now we
have SLC and PICC and such instead.  The difference is only in how the
subsidy is collected, but the changeover has been handled very poorly.

See
<http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/News_Releases/1999/nrcc9050.html>

>> If you do drop it altogether, your local carrier will bill you directly
>> for a monthly fee. However, it's significantly lower than $3/month."

> I believe it was 53 cents/month.

It started at 53 cents/month for a primary residential line.  It was
supposed to go up January 1st, and it is also higher for additional
residential lines, business lines, and so forth.

In article <telecom19.244.4@telecom-digest.org>, Scott Seab wrote:

> Evan L. Hill <evanh@primenet.com> wrote:

>> What restrictions are placed on a line where no Long Distance Carrier
>> has been selected?

>> Are 1+800 and 1+888 calls allowed?

> Only toll calls are blocked, and calls to 900 type numbers.  Many of our
> customers have toll-restricted service for budgeting reasons.

Toll restriction and no-PIC are not the same thing.  No-PIC does NOT
block toll calls.  It only blocks 1+ toll calls outside your LATA.  It
still allows 1+ toll calls (or 7D toll calls in places like California)
within your LATA, and it still allows 101xxxx-1+ toll calls elsewhere.

I suppose that with intra-LATA carrier presubscription, you could
no-PIC for intra-LATA calls, too, in which case you would have to dial
a 101xxxx code for any toll call.  But that's still not the same thing
as toll restriction.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:22:30 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Your License or Your Life


by Declan McCullagh 
3:00 a.m.  22.Jul.99.PDT

WASHINGTON -- If Representative Lamar Smith has his way, your driver's 
license will soon sport your Social Security number, whether you like it 
or not. It may also include microchips encoded with your fingerprints 
and other personal data. 

Government agencies will no longer accept as identification licenses 
that don't meet the new standards. 

http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/20881.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:44:36 -0700
From: Linc Madison <LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com>
Subject: Re: 1411 vs. 411 (Was Re: Any 10D Dialing of Toll-Free


In article <telecom19.245.9@telecom-digest.org>, John R. Levine
<johnl@iecc.com> wrote:

>>> But then SWB also uses 1411 for DA ... NOT 411 (STUPID!!!)

>> SWB in Houston also does this.  I believe it's a holdover from when
>> certain switches such as the step-by-step switches needed some way to
>> "bill" the calls when SWB started to charge for Information (nee
>> directory assistance.)

> DA in Connecticut was 1411 as far back as I can remember, long before
> anyone thought of charging for it.

> More likely it was that step switches needed the 1+ to hand the call off
> to a long-distance tandem that would connect to the DA bureau.

Well, in Texas, the change from 411 to 1+411 was at precisely the
moment they started charging for the service.  Whether that was for
regulatory reasons (more likely, in my opinion) or technical reasons,
I don't know.  I suppose that even in the late 1970's there might have
been switches in Texas that couldn't generate a billing record without
a 1+ "hint," but I'd suspect that even then it was more a reminder to
the customer that there was now a charge for what had been a free
service.  This was circa 1978.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:46:42 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Industry Crypto Bill in Peril


by Declan McCullagh 
5:00 p.m.  21.Jul.99.PDT

WASHINGTON -- And you thought Congress was going to override White
House rules restricting US firms from exporting encryption
products. Well, you were wrong.

The House Armed Services Committee voted 47-6 Wednesday to replace an
industry-endorsed encryption bill with substitute legislation drafted
by law enforcement advocates.

http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/20872.html 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 04:16:13 EDT
From: TELECOM Digest Editor <ptownson@telecom-digest.org>
Subject: Internet Historical Society / Internet Pioneers


You may recall a discussion here in this Digest back in April on
the Telephone Pioneers and possibly starting an organization to
collect and preserve the history of the Internet.

After that discussion, John Levine mailto:johnl@iecc.com very
generously arranged to start a site for that purpose. I helped
get it started and collected quite a large number of links to
historical references on the net. About fifty people indicated
an interest in participating, as per their posted comments at the
site.

I really have not said much about it here since then, but the
little historical society site has been open now since early in
May, and you are invited to review the various links and read the
comments posted by others who expressed an interest. 

If you are interested at all in the history of the Internet over
the past thirty years you might wish to look at what I have done
with the site in the past three months. If you know of some links
that should be included, please let me know.

     http://internet-history.org   http://internet-pioneers.org

     (Both get you to the same place).

I do invite your suggestions on ways to improve the site; it still
needs a lot of work but my problem is one of time and resources. If
any company wishes to sponsor the Historical Society I would also
be grateful.


Thanks,

PAT

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #247
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Fri Jul 23 16:20:05 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA15025;
	Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:20:05 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:20:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907232020.QAA15025@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #248

TELECOM Digest     Fri, 23 Jul 99 16:20:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 248

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    The Dumber They Are, the Better He Likes Them (TELECOM Digest Editor)
    Web Talk Getting Crowded (TELECOM Digest Editor)
    No Brain Cancer Link To Mobile Phones - U.S. Expert (Mike Pollock)
    Re: "*CD" Advertisement (Linc Madison)
    Re: Feature Group D, Call Processing Help (ctiguy@my-deja.com)
    Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California (J Nagle)
    Technical Info Needed on Phone Models (jedifox@one.net.au)
    The Real Meaning of SAC (Gene Saunders)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:41:33 EDT
From: TELECOM Digest Editor <ptownson@telecom-digest.org>
Subject: The Dumber They Are, the Better He Likes Them


With apologies to W.C. Fields, the early twentieth century comedian
whose comments I am using for my text today, let me share still
one more outrage with you from the annals of net history.

Still another of the increasing number of con-artists who like to
think the net is a place where living is easy and the pickings are
plentiful has been shut down, at least for the time being.

I don't know who put the brakes to this one, but thank you, whoever
you are. Read his 'going out of business' notice below. Naturally 
all his email addresses are bogus, as they were when he first 
announced his new enterprise on the net.

Notice how he spams all the newsgroups with his confession. Its rare
you find a newsgroup line as *short* as his. I've seen them come
through with three or four times as many newsgroups listed. Having
five hundred newsgroups listed is not uncommon. Thankfully some
places still honor moderated newsgroups such as this one, as we see
in the header below.

I've added some comments to his orginal offering, which appears
below his confession; they are flush left, as [ed note:]    PAT

                 ---------------------------------

	To: comp-dcom-telecom@moderators.isc.org
	Path: none444.yet
	From: no.email.address.entered@none444.yet
	Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn,comp.dcom.isdn.capi,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet,comp.dcom.lans.fddi,comp.dcom.lans.hyperchannel,comp.dcom.lans.misc,comp.dcom.lans.token-ring,comp.dcom.modems,comp.dcom.modems.cable,comp.dcom.net-analysis,comp.dcom.net-management,comp.dcom.sdh-sonet,comp.dcom.servers,comp.dcom.sys.bay-networks,comp.dcom.sys.cisco,comp.dcom.sys.nortel,comp.dcom.telecom,comp.dcom.telecom.tech,comp.dcom.videoconf,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip
	Subject: RETRACTION 23488
	Date: Saturday, 24 Jul 1999 02:27:32 -0600
	Organization: <no organization>
	Reply-To: martin_davies_roundhill@yahoo.com
	NNTP-Posting-Host: pppa1-13.eisa.net.au
	X-Trace: news.eisa.net.au 932748720 7335 202.139.12.13 (23 Jul 1999 16:52:00 GMT)
	X-Complaints-To: news@news.eisa.net.au
	NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jul 1999 16:52:00 GMT


	PLEASE BE ADVISED
	My previous invitation to join in the forming of an Internet Business 
	DOES NOT COMPLY  with the Law and the Invitation as shown below 
	 IS WITHDRAWN.
	No further offer or invitation will be made until I can correct 
	the the errors in this offer which have rendered it Illegal.

	ALL Money received to date and all Money 
	Received in the future will be FULLY Repaid.

	Anyone thinking of investing their money should obtain 
	a copy of the brochure "Dont kiss your money goodbye"
	 from Australian Securities and Investment Commission on
	 http://www.asic.gov.au/.

	If you would like to contact me personally about any of this 
	or about how to 
	legally fund a company please contact at my email
	martin_davies_roundhill@yahoo.com

	+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
	+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Ed note:I doubt anyone who sent him any money will ever see it again;
the part about refunds is just a lie.  His original lies now follow:]

	The Internet is exploding as you Know.
	New Internet companies are starting all the time. 

[Ed note: New Internet frauds are starting all the time is what you
meant to say. Why is it no matter how many filter rules I have in
place, when I wake up each morning and go to fetch the mail, the
first thing I see are the latest half-dozen or so pitches from
hucksters talking about their new company on the net?]

	Companies listing as Internet companies are enjoying
	 great increases in the share price.

[Ed note: Well of course. P.T. Barnum explained that there were
suckers born every minute. If you combine the fact that as a fairly
new media, most people do not understand very well how the Internet
operates, with the fact that some enterpreneurs are willing to go
into almost any uncharted waters, with the fact that a lot of the
guys here are -- well, just not very bright -- you have some really
fertile soil waiting to be tilled.] 

	Can you get a part of this action?

[ed note: Can I go jump off a bridge tomorrow if I want also?]

	YES. Honestly. I am forming a new Internet company to raise capital
	by issuing shares.
	I expect to issue shares before the end of the year to raise
	Ten Million dollars Australian AUD$10,000,000.00.

[ed note: Is that *all*?  How modest you are! ]


	This money will be used to form the business and to fund operations for
	the first 5 years.

[ed note: Actually, isn't the purpose of raising the money to insure
that you can support yourself, your girlfriends and boyfriends in the
style to which you are all accustomed? ]

	I want netsurfers to get a chance at getting in on the ground floor 
	and making some big money.

[ed note: Well, as L. Ron Hubbard once said, if you want to make some big
money, don't waste your time writing science fiction books. Start a
moderated mailing list on the net with an associated web site and
spend many hours every day counting the money which shows up every day. 

	2 opportunities exist.

[ed note: Opportunity one, hand over our purses. Opportunity two, bend
over your desk. Will you take credit cards so that those of use with
little cash on hand don't have to miss out on this fabulous opportunity?]

	First for major investors you can take up to 10% 
	of the business as it is for $500,000.00
	Please contact me directly at  618 83449514.

[ed note: I see you do not really want to bother with having to take
phone calls from anyone unwilling to give you at least five hundred
thousand dollars. Good thinking! Why waste your time with peons.

	Secondly for the rest of us you can buy units now for $100 each.
	Please deposit AUD$100.00 in my bank account with the 
	Commonwealth Bank of Australia
	Savings Account M L Davies-Roundhill 5008 1004 5703
	then Email me a copy of the receipt along with 
	your full postal details to
	receive your Certificate.

[ed note: The late, great comedian W. C. Fields, whose text I used for
my subject today explained it thusly:

'The dumber they are, the better I like them.'  He was speaking about
his girl friends, but surely this would apply in your case to netizens
in general, would it not?]

	Units in the business should increase in 
	Value many times in the short to medium return
	and offer the returns being enjoyed by Internet companies today.

[ed note: The returns being enjoyed by Internet frauds posing as a
legitimate business is pretty good alright.]

	This not a CON This is genuine.

[ed note: That's what all you guys say. I guess someone saw through
your thinly-veiled BS and shut you down anyway, eh?

	Any queries phone me on 618 83448514 
	or email me at martin_davies_roundhill@yahoo.com.
	Act Now. Think of Bill Gates!

[ed note: When I think of Bill Gates, and I then think of you, I don't
see any comparison at all. I see a man who started out honestly and
made his fortune without going door-to-door slipping notes in people's
mailboxes asking them to wire off their money to a bank account in
another country somewhere.]


	Yours Sincerely
	Martin Davies-Roundhill
	Martination and Tresoft
	Unit 92 No 3 Noblet Street
	Findon SA Australia
	martin_davies_roundhill@yahoo.com

[ed note: Hasn't anyone reported you to Yahoo yet? Usually they are
pretty good about cancelling out the email address of anyone who
gets turned in to them for spamming. 

Just a couple more questions, please ... how many netizens were you
able to lure and trick into sending you money before you got caught?
How many service providers did you have to abuse in the process of
spamming the net?  What was your overall take, money-wise? Anywhere
close to the ten million you hoped to receive? Enough, I hope, that
you and your friends can go out for beer and pizza over the weekend
sometime at least, compliments of the net.

                    ---------------------------

Readers, make a note of the above name. I suspect we will be hearing
more from him when he refines his pitch just a bit more. I must say
his approach was far less crude than most I read each day. At least
he does not suggest that your 'opportunity' consists of going around
stuffing letters in everyone's mailbox asking them to send you five
dollars in exchange for an opportunity to the same to others.

Maybe someone in the general vicinity of the town of Findon in
Australia can do a lookup on the address and phone number given for
us. It would be informative to see if the address is a private home,
a business, a maildrop or whatever. Likewise, is the phone number
real, or does it just go to an answering service/voicemail of some 
sort?


PAT

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:11:15 PDT
From: TELECOM Digest Editor <ptownson@telecom-digest.org>
Subject: Web Talk Getting Crowded


Perhaps you missed this item. It appears Third Voice already has
some competition. This story and a hundred others each day appears
in http://telecom-digest.org/news  the daily online 'Best of the
Web' news feature at this site. 

W I R E D   N E W S
- - - - - - - - - - 

Web Talk Getting Crowded
 by Chris Oakes 

Utilities that allow people to post messages on the Web page they're
viewing is becoming a bona fide industry "space."

On Thursday, a start-up called NovaWiz launched Odigo, the latest
entry in an increasingly crowded field. Odigo joins other tools
allowing onsite discussion of any Web page, but also combines the
functions of a variety of utilities.

 See also: Every Web Site a Chat Room    

Odigo users can communicate by email, through chat, or by sending
"instant" messages that pop up in a real-time window. Chat and instant
messaging are similar, but chat is open to a group of people while
instant messaging targets particular recipients, much like email.

Using a companion Web browser utility, Odigo-equipped visitors to a
site or particular page can either annotate or launch discussions
centered on the information at hand, such as a news story. Other Odigo
users can view the remarks and respond to them.

"Odigo gives Internet users the tools they need to find the most
popular sites on a given topic in real time and to engage the people
on those sites who share their interests," said Shai Buber, president
of NovaWiz.

Internet watchers consider this type of discussion utility a new
category of Net-based communications, following in the footsteps of
email, discussion boards, and live chat.

Related tools include Third Voice, Utok, now in beta but scheduled to
launch next week.

Odigo merges tools for instant messaging and chat with standard
discussion tools, but unlike previous software, doesn't require all
participants to be online at once. The combination is roughly
equivalent to the separate functions of Gooey and Third Voice.

Like Third Voice, Odigo lets users post "sticky"-like notes that can
be viewed by other Odigo visitors that land on a particular page. But
unlike Third Voice, Odigo messages disappear from Odigo when the user
who posted them logs off. The company says this avoids clutter.

In a unique twist, Odigo also folds in a search function. The software
enables general Web site searches, with the results prioritized
according to the real-time surfing habits of Odigo users at any one
time. The company claims this will produces more useful search
results.

This new category of interactive discussion software is already the
subject of some controversy. Web site authors who don't like the idea
that pages can be annotated and discussed without their control see
this as a form of electronic graffiti.

Odigo, like Third Voice and Gooey, allows discussion of any
site. Internet users can use the software to find the most popular
sites on a given topic to invite others for live discussions.

Odigo, available for Windows only, supports Internet Explorer versions
3.0 and higher and Netscape versions 3.0 and higher.

Like the companies who spawned Gooey and Utok, NovaWiz's also has
roots in Israel, although the company maintains a research and
development office in the United States.


Copyright 1999 Wired Digital, Inc. 

------------------------------

From: Mike Pollock <pheel@sprynet.com>
Subject: No Brain Cancer Link To Mobile Phones - U.S. Expert
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:06:47 -0400
Organization: It's A Mike!


DUBLIN (Reuters) - A U.S. radiation expert said Friday extensive
studies had shown there was no evidence of a link between mobile phone
use and brain cancer, but that there were always more studies to be
done.

John Molder, a professor of radiation oncology from the Medical
College of Wisconsin, said during a visit to Dublin there was ``no
evidence of hazard whatsoever'' from the use of mobile phones.

``There are always more studies that can be done,'' Molder said. ``But
there have already been extensive studies in human and animals and no
link between cell (mobile) phone use and brain cancer has been
found.''

Swedish researchers have said mobile phone users could be two and a
half times more likely to develop brain cancer than those who do not,
but Molder said he had studied their research and found the numbers
had no statistical significance.

The evidence of brain tumors in mobile phone users was in a tiny
sub-group of about five people, he told a news conference on the last
day of the 11th International Congress on Radiation Research in
Dublin.

The radiation congress, held every four years since 1959, started on
July 18 and covered a wide spectrum of radiation topics including
cancer therapy and the exposure of airline crews to cosmic radiation.

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/ts/story.html?s=v/nm/19990723/ts/mobile
s_cancer_1.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:24:31 -0700
From: Linc Madison <LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com>
Subject: Re: "*CD" Advertisement



In article <telecom19.242.5@telecom-digest.org>, Carl Moore
<cmoore@ARL.MIL> wrote:

> Has anyone else heard the "star CD" advertisement where you dial *23
> regarding a song you just heard on the radio?

I haven't heard that one.  Is it just "dial *23" or "dial *23 on your
[brand-X] cellphone"?  The latter sort are much more numerous.  For
instance, you can dial *CBS (or equivalently *CAR, but they don't quote
it that way) to report a traffic jam to KCBS, if you're on the right
cellular/PCS/whatever network.  There's another station that is, I
think, #KFOG, possibly on a different mobile network.

------------------------------

From: ctiguy@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Feature Group D, Call Processing Help
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:02:52 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.


Try ... computertelephony.org for starters. If you need some others
let me know and I will send you the URL's.


JL

In article <telecom19.240.3@telecom-digest.org>, rashid5730@
my-deja.com wrote:

> I have just moved to a new department which requires lots of
> call processing knowledge.

> Like,  what is:
> Feature group d, a,b,c
> Dial number plan
> ANI, KP, ST
> ISDN, PRI
> CAS
> Switches like DMS 100, 250
> DID, two stings

------------------------------

From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle)
Subject: Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California
Date: 23 Jul 1999 18:09:14 GMT
Organization: Netcom


Joseph Singer <dov@oz.net> writes:

> I'm afraid what it's going to come down to is that you're going to
> have to remember a ten-digit number rather than the seven that you
> have referred to for years.  If everyone quotes their number as all
> ten digits there's no confusion at all.  I'll grant you that it is ten
> digits rather than seven, but the reality is that we're moving into a
> minimum ten digit era.

What we really need to do is to go to eight digit local numbers, like
France and Japan did years ago.


John Nagle

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 00:40:45 +1000
From: jedifox <jedifox@one.net.au>
Reply-To: jedifox@one.net.au
Subject: Technical Info Needed on Phone Models


Hi,

I'm after info on the following phones:

Desk phone type itt 2500 13 fba
Date of mfr 20 m5 85

Wall phone type 1-66-16 made by a.e.co and used by gte
other nubers found nb92216 cxx mfr date 12 2 76

Reply via email.


jedifox@one.net.au

Many thanks.

------------------------------

From: Gene.Saunders@Central.Sun.COM (Gene Saunders - Sun Microsystems SE)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:13:49 -0500
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc - Dallas TX USA office
Subject: The Real Meaning of SAC


I thought SAC was "special area code" (choosing between these):

SAC             Sacramento-Executive, CA, USA
SAC             Service Area Code
SAC             Single Attachment Concentrator (FDDI)
SAC             Strategic Air Command [US Military]

Yet you didn't take the opportunity to correct Seymour Dupa when he
penned "SAC (non-geographic "Special" Area Code)".

So which is it?  Service Area Code, or Special Area Code?
Where's my copy of Newton's Telecom Dictionary when I need it?  ;^)


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note:  Harry Newton has the dictionaries
for sale over at his web site. If you can't afford one of his, or
don't think it worth the money, you can have my glossaries for free
by going to http://telecom-digest.org/archives/glossaries and down-
loading them. I only have about five different ones available. For
just a casual one time lookup, write tel-archives@telecom-digest.org
and in the text of your message do as follows:

REPLY yourname@site
GLOSSARY acronym requested, no periods, i.e. MFJ  *not* M.F.J.
GLOSSARY repeat as often as desired, i.e. LEC 
END so that the script does not try to read your .signature

You will get back by email shortly after that an automatic letter
written to you which returns the results of looking for your requested
acronym through four or five reference files of same I have on line.

You must begin with REPLY yourname@site and if you need HELP just
include that word also, flush with the left margin like the others;
you will get back a detailed file explaining GLOSSARY and other
commands you can use to obtain archives files.   PAT]

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #248
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Fri Jul 23 21:47:04 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA27671;
	Fri, 23 Jul 1999 21:47:04 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 21:47:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907240147.VAA27671@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #249

TELECOM Digest     Fri, 23 Jul 99 21:47:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 249

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    UCLA Fall Short Courses in Communications Engineering (Bill Goodin)
    Is This Legal? (Robert Bononno)
    Update on Sprint Canada (Jim Willis)
    Master Phone "Numbers" and Email (Colin Sutton)
    Re: Yet Another "Backhoe" Telecom Outage (Tony Toews)
    Re: The Real Meaning of SAC (Linc Madison)
    Re: "*CD" Advertisement (Andy McFadden)
    The .GOV and .EDU Domains (was Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce)
    Long Distance IXC Poll Being Taken (TELECOM Digest Editor)
    Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in Calif (Joseph Singer)
    Re: Last Laugh! The Next Decade - The Naughties? (Heywood Jaiblomi)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bill Goodin <bgoodin@unex.ucla.edu>
Subject: UCLA Fall Short Courses in Communications Engineering
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:13:29 -0700


This fall, UCLA Extension will present the following communications 
engineering short courses on the UCLA campus in Los Angeles.

September 21-24, 1999, "Automatic Speech Recognition: Fundamentals 
and Applications".  The instructors are Abeer Alwan, PhD, Associate 
Professor, Electrical Engineering Department, UCLA; and Ananth 
Sankar, PhD, Senior Research Engineer, Speech Technology and 
Research (STAR) Laboratory, SRI International, $1495.

September 22-24, 1999, "Advanced Digital Communications: The 
Search for Efficient Signaling Methods".  The instructor is Bernard 
Sklar, PhD, President, Communications Engineering Services, $1195.

September 29-October 1, 1999, "Digital Signal Processing Applications 
in Wireless Communications".  The instructors are Zoran I. Kostic, PhD, 
Member of Technical Staff, AT&T Bell Laboratories; and Babak 
Daneshrad, PhD, Assistant Professor, Department of Electrical 
Engineering, UCLA, $1195.

October 4-5, 1999, "Introduction to Phase-Locked Loops".  The instructor 
is Donald R. Stephens, PhD, President and Chief Scientist, CommLargo, 
Inc., $795.

October 6-8, 1999, "Design of Wireless Modems".  The instructor is 
Donald R. Stephens, PhD, President and Chief Scientist, CommLargo, 
Inc., $1195.

October 11-15, 1999, "Communication Systems Using Digital Signal 
Processing".  The instructors are Bernard Sklar, PhD, President, 
Communications Engineering Services, and fred harris, MS, Cubic 
Signal Processing Chair Professor of Electrical and Computer 
Engineering, San Diego State University, $1695.

October 12-15, 1999, "Optical Fiber Communications: Techniques and 
Applications".  The instructors are Tran V. Muoi, PhD, President, 
Optical Communication Products; Del Hanson, PhD, Principal Engineer, 
Hewlett-Packard; and Richard E. Wagner, PhD, Manager, Optical 
Network Research, Corning, $1495.

October 19-22, 1999, "Integrated Circuit Design for Wireless 
Transceivers".  The instructors are Asad Abidi, PhD, Professor, 
Electrical Engineering Department, UCLA, and Behzad Razavi, PhD, 
Associate Professor, Electrical Engineering Department, UCLA, $1495.

October 25-29, 1999, "UNIX Kernel Internals: Structure and Networking".  
The instructors are Marshall Kirk McKusick, PhD, independent 
consultant, and Michael J. Karels, system architect, BSDI, $1695.

November 1-3, 1999, "MEMS for Optical and RF Applications".  The 
instructors are Ming C. Wu, PhD, Professor, Electrical Engineering, 
UCLA; M. Frank Chang, PhD, Professor, Electrical Engineering, UCLA; 
Robert Y. Loo, PhD, Hughes; and Yu-Chong Tai, PhD, Associate 
Professor, California Institute of Technology, $1195.

November 2-5, 1999, "Satellite-Based Communications, Navigation, and 
Surveillance for Air Traffic Management (CNS/ATM)".  The instructors are 
Cary R. Spitzer, MS, President, AvioniCon, Inc.; Wayne Aleshire, 
Captain, United Airlines; Michael J. Morgan, Director, Flight Management 
Systems, Honeywell; and Roy T. Oishi, Technical Director, International 
ATC, ARINC, Inc., $1495.

November 16-19, 1999, "Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM) 
Communications Networking", The instructor is Izhak Rubin, PhD, 
Professor, Electrical Engineering, UCLA, $1495.

November 17-19, 1999, "Multirate Signal Processing in Transmitter 
and Receiver Designs".  The instructor is fred harris, MS, Cubic 
Signal Processing Chair Professor, Electrical and Computer 
Engineering, San Diego State University, $1195.

December 6-7, 1999, "Automatic Test Equipment (ATE) Selection, 
Design, and Programming".  The instructor is Louis Y. Ungar, MA, 
President, ATE Solutions, Inc., $795.

December 8-10, 1999, "Design for Testability and Built-In Test".  The 
instructor is Louis Y. Ungar, MA, President, ATE Solutions, Inc., 
$1195.

For additional information and complete course descriptions, please
visit our web page, http://www.unex.ucla.edu/shortcourses/,

or contact Marcus Hennessy at:
(310) 825-1047
(310) 206-2815  fax
mhenness@unex.ucla.edu

All of these courses may also be presented on-site at company locations.

------------------------------

From: Robert Bononno <rbononno@erols.com>
Subject: Is This Legal?
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:25:17 -0400


About six weeks ago I switched my LD carrier from MCI to AT&T. I
called Bell Atlantic to authorize the switch since I had blocked my
carrier after being slammed twice (by AT&T of all people).

On the latest bill I see that MCI is still charging for a) their long
distance plan and b) the Internet service fee, which comes to about
six dollars and change. I called MCI to ask about this and after being
put on hold for at least 20 minutes, a rather brusque operator
informed me that although I had switched carriers, I had never called
MCI to cancel the service. Huh?

Doesn't the act of switching constitute cancelling a service? I guess
not. I know I never had to contact any previous LD carrier to tell
them I was switching. Does anyone know what the truth of the matter
is? She cancelled my account (gee thanks) but said I was still
responsible for the charges.  Apparently MCI would have been happy to
continue to bill me for a service I didn't know I (still) had.


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Actually it does not constitute cancel-
ation since all you are really doing is changing the default one plus
carrier. You could continue to use MCI's 'ten-ten' code and perhaps
receive the benefits of whatever plan you had been on. Whether or not
you did continue to use them or not is anyone's guess, and whether or
not changing the default carrier is to be treated by the former 
default carrier as a 'cancellation' of service is handled in various
ways. You are best off notifying both the local carrier and the IXC.
Ditto signing up for service. You can tell the local telco and not
bother to tell the IXC, but the results are unpredictable.   PAT]

------------------------------

From: Jim Willis <ppost2@drlogick.com>
Subject: Update on Sprint Canada
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:33:25 -0400


Here is some of what's been happening with Sprint Canada lately:

Competition

 Canada -
   Local service competition was declared open by the Canadian regulator
   (CRTC) late in 1994. No significant plans have yet been announced for
   the provision of new local services, other than some cable company
   Internet access services. Some specialty business services are also
   available. There was at least one university student residential local
   service established, competing with Bell (at York University in Toronto).
   The local competition framework and rules are to be formalised by the
   CRTC.

There is now LOCAL competition from Optel http://www.optel.ca/ (I use
that here at work). Also LOCAL from Sprint Canada web
http://www.sprintcanada.ca/English/Business/Local/LocalProduct/

BUSINESS -already has local service available
 Advanced Local Network

Sprint Canada has provided Long Distance service across the country
since 1986 and is now Canada's number one alternative carrier. One of
the keys to our success is our investment in technology - we maintain
our own, future-ready network.

The same strategy applies to Local Service. We own and maintain our local
switching facilities, which are based on advanced equipment from Lucent
Technologies - equipment with an excellent rating for performance
reliability worldwide. Lucent Technologies is a world leader in
telecommunications systems. They design, build and deliver a wide range of
public and private networks, communications systems and software, data
network systems, business telephone systems and microelectronic components.

Product

Our initial local product offering has been created with the small and
medium sized business customer in mind. Our present line functionality
addresses the needs of individual line subscribers and key system users.

Local service is coming for HOME users

Switch to Sprint Canada local service and you'll benefit from lower
rates, volume discounts, calling features and advanced billing and
reporting. Long distance and local services charges are conveniently
combined on one bill.

Sprint Canada began a local service alternative in Calgary in
February. This service is expanding to Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver
by the end of the year.[1999] Within three years we expect to be in 25
major Canadian markets reaching 65 percent of Canadian businesses and
households.


Jim Willis
ppost2@drlogick.com

------------------------------

Reply-To: Colin Sutton <colin.sutton@syd.landisstaefa.aust.com>
From: Colin Sutton <colin@sutton.wow.aust.com>
Subject: Master Phone "Numbers" and Email
Organization: Siemens Building Technologies
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 08:35:05 +1000


Here in Australia, the phone service provider Telstra has a service
that allows you to register your mobile phone number as an email
address. Email sent to +61241nnnnnnnnn@mobilenet.telstra.net will be
received as an SMS message - if the owner of the phone has registered.

What I'd like is the opposite. On my phone I would set up a shortkey
to an email address, rather than a phone number. On calling that
number my speech is sent as an attachment. When the recipient reads
the email, s/he can respond using the computer microphone (a
reply/voice option is needed) and a live connection set up. (That
ought to be possible between computers too).

Then we don't need phone numbers any more, but email addresses. The
phone number could be hidden from the user by the phone company, who
allows you to set my_phone.colin@phone_company.com to call
+61241nnnnnnnnn when the SIM card is registered. Then the phone
company can add digits to codes at will.


Colin Sutton

------------------------------

From: ttoews@telusplanet.net (Tony Toews)
Subject: Re: Yet Another "Backhoe" Telecom Outage
Organization: Me, organized?  Not a chance.
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:40:18 GMT


And then theres the outage at the Lethbridge, Alberta airport several
decades ago.   A former boss was the operations manager for a service
bureau running accounting systems for an small airline based out out
Lethbridge.  

The entire airport  was down for about a day or so.  This included all
phone and communications lines with the airport, weather and so on.

Turns out a farmer had decided to put in a fence.  Turns out he hit
the telephone cable not once, not twice, no, not even three times, but
forty times.   

Kinda impressive that both the telco and the farmer could 1) make it
so straight or 2) both be out of line so often.  <grin>

Then there's my uncle doing a bit of field work in southern Manitoba.
He notices this several hundred yard long wire trailing from his
equipment.  Its telephone cable.  Oh well, he saids figuring that his
telephone service is out. Sure enough, he can't reach his wife on the
cell phone so he calls a service call to the telco, MTS or Manitoba
Telephone System.   

A while later a foreman starts to tell him that he's going to be
billed for the work.  Uncle points out his equipment only goes down
about six inches at the most.  Foreman starts muttering about how some
sub contracters were getting very cheap and shallow when they were
burying new cable for private phone lines for every farmer.


Tony Toews, Independent Computer Consultant
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at 
   http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
VolStar http://www.volstar.com Manage hundreds or 
   thousands of volunteers for special events.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:45:49 -0700
From: Linc Madison <LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com>
Subject: Re: The Real Meaning of SAC


In article <telecom19.248.8@telecom-digest.org>, Gene Saunders - Sun
Microsystems SE <Gene.Saunders@Central.Sun.COM> wrote:

> I thought SAC was "special area code" (choosing between these):
> SAC             Service Area Code  [other choices deleted]

> Yet you didn't take the opportunity to correct Seymour Dupa when he
> penned "SAC (non-geographic "Special" Area Code)".

> So which is it?  Service Area Code, or Special Area Code?

Actually, neither.  It's "Special Access Code," in that context.

SACs are codes that are not *area* codes at all, since they are
non-geographic.

------------------------------

From: fadden@netcom.com (Andy McFadden)
Subject: Re: "*CD" Advertisement
Date: 23 Jul 1999 22:00:27 GMT
Organization: Lipless Rattling Crankbait


In article <telecom19.248.4@telecom-digest.org>, Linc Madison
<LincMad001@telecom-digest.zzn.com> wrote:

> In article <telecom19.242.5@telecom-digest.org>, Carl Moore
> <cmoore@ARL.MIL> wrote:

>> Has anyone else heard the "star CD" advertisement where you dial *23
>> regarding a song you just heard on the radio?

> I haven't heard that one.  Is it just "dial *23" or "dial *23 on your
> [brand-X] cellphone"?  The latter sort are much more numerous.  For
> instance, you can dial *CBS (or equivalently *CAR, but they don't quote
> it that way) to report a traffic jam to KCBS, if you're on the right
> cellular/PCS/whatever network.  There's another station that is, I
> think, #KFOG, possibly on a different mobile network.

I saw a quick blurb about this on CNN-HN one morning.  It's *23 on a
specific brand of cellular phone.  If my groggy mind got the details
correct, you call in while the song is playing, and they use some fancy
audio recognition techniques (I think the reporter mentioned submarine
hunting technology) to match the sounds against a database.

You're told what the song is, and given an option to buy the music right
then and there, which is where the $$$ factor comes in.

It's currently undergoing a trial in a limited area.  Some aspects of it
don't really seem practical, but that may well be due to an imperfect
understanding.


Send mail to fadden@netcom.com (Andy McFadden)
CD-Recordable FAQ - http://www.fadden.com/cdrfaq/ (a/k/a www.spies.com/~fadden)
Fight Internet Spam - http://spam.abuse.net/spam/ & news.admin.net-abuse.email

------------------------------

From: Rfc1394a@aol.com (Paul Robinson)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:05:42 EDT
Subject: The .GOV  & .EDU domains (was Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce)


Derek J. Balling wrote in message ...

>> Why won't the USA use the .US domain ?

> In the US, you HAVE to get your .US domain registered geographically.
> If ISI would reorg the way the US domain was laid out it would have been 
> infinitely more useful. Now, inertia has set in ...

>> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I believe that '.us' is used by local
>> and state governments in the USA, while '.gov' is used only by the
>> federal government.   PAT]

The .US domain is available for anyone who bothers to register.  About
the only advantage is that you don't have to pay maintenance fees on a
.US domain.

> .gov can be used by "any government agency" ... 

No longer true.

> An example of this is www.bart.gov (Bay Area Rapid Transit here in 
> the San Francisco area).

> One thing that really annoys me is something like:
>         www.fremontpolice.org
> They could have had a .gov address for free, but didn't do so. Instead, 
> they decided to spend tax-payer dollars sending money to NSI.

Addresses in .GOV (and FED.US) are now only available to agencies of
the U.S.  Federal Government.  State and local agencies must register
as local .US domains EXCEPT that states and local government agencies
who obtained .GOV addresses in the past will be allowed to keep them.

A similar policy applies to the .EDU domain.  Only degree-granting
four-year universities can get into the .EDU domain.  There are a few
community colleges and smaller educational organizations that "snuck
in" when the standards were lower and while they are permitted to keep
their domains in the special .EDU classification, new schools and
colleges either have to get .US or standard domains.


Paul Robinson (Formerly PAUL@TDR.COM, TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM, among others)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:54:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: TELECOM Digest Editor <ptownson>
Subject: Long Distance IXC Poll Being Taken


The current poll question asks what IXC is your *primary* long distance
carrier. Please cast your vote today.

Every week or two we will have a new poll question. You can watch the
results as they accumulate. In Chicago, the politicians like to say
'vote early and often' ... and I do hope to see results start coming
in soon, but please do not stuff the ballot box by voting more than
once. 

To cast your vote go to http://telecom-digest.org/vote.html

And no electioneering allowed within a hundred feet of the polling place.


PAT

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:10:26 -0700
From: Joseph Singer <dov@oz.net>
Subject: Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California


nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle) wrote:

> Joseph Singer <dov@oz.net> writes:

>> I'm afraid what it's going to come down to is that you're going to
>> have to remember a ten-digit number rather than the seven that you
>> have referred to for years.  If everyone quotes their number as all
>> ten digits there's no confusion at all.  I'll grant you that it is ten
>> digits rather than seven, but the reality is that we're moving into a
>> minimum ten digit era.

> What we really need to do is to go to eight digit local numbers, like
> France and Japan did years ago.

Perhaps this would work, but as has been written at length it is no small
task to switch from the present NANPA format of 3+7 numbering.  Not only
would it be a *major* task to convert every single CO in the NANPA but you
would also have to convert any and every database that has 3+7 as defaults
in their database.  It's not a simple fix by any means and I'd guess that
in the next ten years *something* will be done either with the addition of
an extra digit in the NPA code or the actual subscriber number.  Those in
authority know this and are at present looking at what alternatives there
are for making whatever change needs to be made.  To be sure it's going to
be a mammoth project.


Joseph Singer    Seattle, Washington USA  <mailto:dov@oz.net> 
<http://welcome.to/dov>  <http://wwp.mirabilis.com/460262> [ICQ pgr] 
+1 206 405 2052 [msg] +1 707 516 0561 [FAX] Seattle, Washington USA

------------------------------

From: heywood@gloucester.com (Heywood Jaiblomi)
Subject: Re: Last Laugh! The Next Decade - The Naughties?
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 23:55:06 GMT
Organization: Redundancy and more of it


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I sort of like 'Naughties' myself. 
> Any suggestions from anyone else?   PAT]

The nineties has brought us the concept of "naming rights" for sports
stadiums and other public facilities. Might I suggest we sell the
naming rights for each decade.

We could have the "Fords" the "Pepsis" the "Sprints", etc. 

Funds from the sale of naming rights would go to support Pat's work on
TELECOM Digest.


Nulla meretrix est melior quam longaeva meretrix


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Why, thank you! Since you brought the
topic up first, I might as well remind everyone that telecom-digest.org
along with TELECOM Digest and the Telecom Archives are kept afloat from
one year to the next as a result of voluntary gifts from readers and
help by sponsors and the ITU. The suggested -- and that's all it is,
a suggestion -- donation amount is twenty dollars per reader per year.
You have to no obligation either way, and neither do I. Editorial
content is independent of how anyone chooses to participate. If you
care to help:  Patrick Townson/ PO Box 765/ Junction City, KS 66441-0765
and thanks!  PAT]

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #249
******************************
    
    
From editor@telecom-digest.org  Sat Jul 24 14:40:21 1999
Received: (from ptownson@localhost)
	by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA21635;
	Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:40:21 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:40:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: editor@telecom-digest.org
Message-Id: <199907241840.OAA21635@massis.lcs.mit.edu>
To: ptownson
Subject: TELECOM Digest V19 #250

TELECOM Digest     Sat, 24 Jul 99 14:40:00 EDT    Volume 19 : Issue 250

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: The Real Meaning of SAC (Mark J. Cuccia)
    Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple (Paul Robinson)
    Re: BellSouth MemoryCall Fails (Paul Robinson)
    Re: Is This Legal? (Steven J. Sobol)
    Re: Master Phone "Numbers" and Email (Mjsutter)
    Re: 800, 888, 877, 866, 855, 844, 833, 822, 811, ??? (Leonard Erickson)
    Re: Yet Another "Backhoe" Telecom Outage (Scott Robert Dawson)
    Re: How to Identify a Wireless Number? (Geoff Dyer)
    Re: DSL and Cable Modems (Roy McCammon)
    Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in Calif (Julian Thomas)
    Re: The Dumber They Are, the Better He Likes Them (Geoff Dyer)
    Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce (Robert Eden)

TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, and other forums.
It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated 
newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copywrited. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occassional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
                        Post Office Box 765
                        Junction City, KS 66441-0765
                        Phone: 415-520-9905 
                        Email: editor@telecom-digest.org

Subscribe/unsubscribe:  subscriptions@telecom-digest.org

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the second oldest e-zine/
mailing list on the internet in any category!

URL information:        http://telecom-digest.org

Anonymous FTP: hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives
  (or use our mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives)

Email <==> FTP:  telecom-archives@telecom-digest.org 

      Send a simple, one line note to that automated address for
      a help file on how to use the automatic retrieval system
      for archives files. You can get desired files in email.

*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the              *
* International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland    * 
* under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES)   * 
* project.  Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-*
* ing views of the ITU.                                                 *
*************************************************************************

   In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert
   has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and
   enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order 
   telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has
   been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very
   inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request
   a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com 
   ---------------------------------------------------------------
    
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any
organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages
should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 21:22:54 CDT
From: Mark J Cuccia <mcuccia@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu>
Subject: Re: The Real Meaning of SAC


In the 1960's and 70's, "The Bell System's" definition of "SAC" was for
"Special Area Code". Sometime in the 1980's, either AT&T/Bell, or maybe
Bellcore (if it was 1984 or later) changed the definition to "Service
Access Code".

Both definitions have their merits. I prefer Special Area Code, the older
definition, even though the SACs aren't really defined to any specific
geographic part of the NANP - thus are the "area" codes - the use of these
3-digit codes in the _area_code_position_ of a North American ten-digit
number is why I like to call them _Special_ Area Codes.

The later definition of Service Access Code indicates that they are not
"area" based, but rather codes for accessing special services. However,
while the 11-XX(X) = *XX(X) codes are called "Vertical Service Codes", and
the three-digit local N11 codes are called "Service Codes", the term
Service Access Code for the N00's and other NXX codes where the second and
third digits are identical - in the "area code position" of a ten-digit
number - might be erroneously applied to the 11XX(X) = *XX(X) or N11
codes.

At one time, the N10 range of codes were classified as "SACs", since they
were used for switching TWX (TeletypeWriter eXchange) service over the
Bell System's network. While the N10 codes aren't used for TWX on the
telephone nubmering/switching/routing network anymore, the 710 code in
the "area code" position of a ten-digit NANP number, is a SAC for the US
Federal Government's "GETS" (Government Emergency Telephone Service).
Also, the 456 code when used in the "area code" position of a NANP
ten-digit number is a SAC, for "International Inbound" services.

So, call it what you like -- SAC has been defined to indicate "Special
Area Code", but also "Service Access Code". I prefer the earlier
definition.


MARK_J._CUCCIA__PHONE/WRITE/WIRE/CABLE:__HOME:__(USA)__Tel:_CHestnut-1-2497
WORK:__mcuccia@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu|4710-Wright-Road|__(+1-504-241-2497)
Tel:UNiversity-5-5954(+1-504-865-5954)|New-Orleans-28__|fwds-on-no-answr-to
Fax:UNiversity-5-5917(+1-504-865-5917)|Louisiana(70128)|cellular/voicemail-

------------------------------

From: rfc1394a@aol.com (Paul Robinson)
Date: 24 Jul 1999 02:39:40 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Bell Atlantic Brings DSL Services to the Big Apple


> I switched to BANET since in reality I get IBMNET service without the hour 
> limit (100) of IBM. BA has now, since June, introduced also 150
> hours per month limit and I am considering my options. 

A few months ago at Micro Center I bought a new computer, a very nice
E-Machines 333mhz box with essentially everything except monitor for
$524.  I eventually even got the $25 rebate check meaning it was $499.
About a month ago I bought a second computer, an E-Machines 366mhz box
with all the same things as the first one in which the price was $175,
meaning $100 after rebate which I couldn't get because I'd already
gotten one on the other computer, I think. I got it at that price
because I agreed to take a three year contract with MSN for unlimited
Internet connectivity for $19.95 a month and in exchange they covered
$400 of the purchase price.  As an added benefit the store happened to
be selling used floor model Compaq 15" color monitors for $78.

Right now competitors to Microsoft are selling internet access here
for about $13.95 a month so in essence I am paying $6 a month for the
computer which isn't bad at all.  The reason I point this out is since
my contract with them was based on their providing unlimited Internet,
the day they change that either by raising the price or limiting
number of hours is the day that I'm able to get out of the contract
for free since they are changing the terms and I don't have to agree
with the change.  So absent any unusual conditions I expect to see
them keep service at $19.95 for unlimited Internet for at least the
next three years.  Or I get to walk away from the contract and still
keep the computer and the rebate.  I win either way.

About two years ago I worked as one of the technical support people
for the subcontractor that ran the help desk for Bell Atlantic
Internet, and I was using Erols, not BA for my own personal Internet
access.

> On behalf of our coop Board of Directors I deal with BA engineers 
> regarding telephone and broadband service to our building and all 
> my interfaces with them were pleasant and professional 

I personally can't say enough bad things about the shoddy and
poor-quality customer service and order processing of "Hell Titanic"
as one person here aptly named them, or "Barf Atemetic" as I have.
The only company that is probably worse is GTE which I have also had
service from and know about from personal experience..

However, I personally can't say enough GOOD things about the excellent
and professional TECHNICAL and SUPPORT people of Bell Atlantic.
Whenever I've had a technician come out and do something or fix
something they've always done it right or gotten it right the first
time.


Paul Robinson (Formerly PAUL@TDR.COM, FORYOU@EROLS.COM among zillions of
others)

------------------------------

From: rfc1394a@aol.com (Paul Robinson)
Date: 24 Jul 1999 03:15:03 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: BellSouth MemoryCall Fails


John Warne wrote:

>> The following is based on the assumption BellSouth is using an 
>> Octal VM platform in your area, and relates information I gleaned 
>> from multiple discussions with BellSouth:

> I think they are using a Nortel DMS-100.  I don't know what an "Octal
> VM" is.  Is it just another brand and model of switch

I had the privilege of working for a week at the Southern California
sales office for Northern Telecom, which, as it turns out, at that
time was owned by Pacific Bell.

It's 'Octel'.  It's an add-on voice mail system that is hooked onto
the switch.

------------------------------

From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steven J. Sobol)
Subject: Re: Is This Legal?
Date: 24 Jul 1999 01:53:14 GMT
Organization: North Shore Technologies Corp. 888.480.4NET


On Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:25:17 -0400, rbononno@erols.com allegedly said:

> About six weeks ago I switched my LD carrier from MCI to AT&T. I
> called Bell Atlantic to authorize the switch since I had blocked my
> carrier after being slammed twice (by AT&T of all people).

> On the latest bill I see that MCI is still charging for a) their long
> distance plan and b) the Internet service fee, which comes to about
> six dollars and change. I called MCI to ask about this and after being
> put on hold for at least 20 minutes, a rather brusque operator
> informed me that although I had switched carriers, I had never called
> MCI to cancel the service. Huh?

I had a big, big problem between Ameritech, MCI and AT&T when
switching long-distance on my ISDN line. AT&T digital long distance
is serviced through a different phone number (800 820-6464) than
regular residential long distance (800 222-0300). MCI claimed the same
thing. Actually, Ameritech, MCI and AT&T all blamed each other.

> receive the benefits of whatever plan you had been on. Whether or not
> you did continue to use them or not is anyone's guess, and whether or
> not changing the default carrier is to be treated by the former 
> default carrier as a 'cancellation' of service is handled in various
> ways. You are best off notifying both the local carrier and the IXC.
> Ditto signing up for service. You can tell the local telco and not
> bother to tell the IXC, but the results are unpredictable.   PAT]

You'd better tell the local telco, though, because if not it's very
likely the change won't be put through by them. At least that's my
experience.


North Shore Technologies Corporation http://www.NorthShoreTechnologies.net
We don't just build websites; we build relationships!
815 Superior Ave. #610, Cleveland, OH 44114-2702 216.619.2NET 888.480.4NET
Host of the Forum for Responsible & Ethical E-mail http://www.spamfree.org

------------------------------

From: mjsutter@aol.com (Mjsutter)
Date: 24 Jul 1999 03:46:13 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Master Phone "Numbers" and Email


> Here in Australia, the phone service provider Telstra has a service
> that allows you to register your mobile phone number as an email
> address. Email sent to +61241nnnnnnnnn@mobilenet.telstra.net will be
> received as an SMS message - if the owner of the phone has registered.

> What I'd like is the opposite. On my phone I would set up a shortkey
> to an email address, rather than a phone number. On calling that
> number my speech is sent as an attachment. When the recipient reads
> the email, s/he can respond using the computer microphone (a
> reply/voice option is needed) and a live connection set up. (That
> ought to be possible between computers too).

> Then we don't need phone numbers any more, but email addresses. The
> phone number could be hidden from the user by the phone company, who
> allows you to set my_phone.colin@phone_company.com to call
> +61241nnnnnnnnn when the SIM card is registered. Then the phone
> company can add digits to codes at will.

You would be interested in a profile originally developed in the
Electronic Messaging Association (EMA) that has subsequently been put
under the auspices of the IETF. I don't have the RFC number at my
fingertips but it shouldn't be hard to find on the IETF site. The
profile is called Voice Profile for Internet Mail (VPIM) and can be
accessed at www.ema.org. I believe the profile addresses your
requirements.  


cheers/mike

------------------------------

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: 800, 888, 877, 866, 855, 844, 833, 822, 811, ???
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 23:34:48 PST
Organization: Shadownet


Seymour Dupa <grumpy@bigbird.en.com> writes:

> Two apologies:

> Mark J Cuccia <mcuccia@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu> wrote:

>> Seymour Dupa (grumpy@bigbird.en.com) wrote:

>>> What's going to come after 811?

>>> When 800 got used up, instead of going to 888, 877, etc, they should
>>> have gone to 801, 802, 803, ...

>> and PAT (editor@telecom-digest.org) replied:

>>> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I don't think the people living in 801,
>>> 802 and 803-land would would have liked that decision very much. After
>>> the last available choices are used up in 811, hopefully we will have
>>> gone to some entirely new numbering system. PAT]

> #1. I did not know there were area codes 801, 802 and 803.

*All* the N0X and N1X codes were in use before we switched to allowing
digits 2-9 in the second position back in 1995. We started using the
N10 codes in 90 or 92. And many of the others had been in use for
*decades*.

NPA	area			started
 --	----------------	--------
801	Utah			1947
802	Vermont			1947
803	South Carolina		1947
804	Virginia		19730624
805	California		1957
806	Texas			1957
807	Ontario			1962
808	Hawaii			1957
809	Carribean Islands	1958
810	Michigan		19931201
812	Indiana			1947
813	Florida			1953
814	Pennsylvania		1947
815	Illinois		1947
816	Missouri		1947
817	Texas			1953
818	California		198401
819	Quebec			1957


Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com	<--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com	<--last resort

------------------------------

From: sunspace@interlog.com.placeholder (Scott Robert Dawson)
Subject: Re: Yet Another "Backhoe" Telecom Outage
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:34:06 GMT
Organization: Interlog Internet Services


On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 04:01:26 GMT, anthony@alphageo.com (Anthony
Argyriou) wrote:

[snip]
 
> (Did you know they pipe nitrogen all over Silicon Valley?)

Why?

[snip]
 
Scott Robert Dawson, Toronto
Parolu Esperante!

------------------------------

From: gldyer-nospam@geocities.com (Geoff Dyer)
Subject: Re: How to Identify a Wireless Number?
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:00:11 GMT


On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:28:20 GMT, dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au (David
Clayton) wrote:


>> Do any of the listers have specific knowledge as to how wireless
>> telephone numbers (as opposed to land line telephone numbers) are
>> identified in Australia, Israel, Italy, Japan, Netherlands,
>> Switzerland, Spain, the U.K., Belgium, etc.?

> In Australia prefixes 04, 015, 018, 019 are mobile services.

The leading zero is dropped when dialing internationally, of course. 
Australia's numbering is getting a bit simpler, and David's list
covers the vast bulk of wireless stuff, but there are still some
things like ranges with multiple services. 

Digital mobiles (nearly all GSM, as CDMA has only just been
introduced) are, internationally, 11-digit numbers of the form:
 +61 4xx xxx xxx

(If you see ten-digit numbers +61 4n xxx xxx, they are out-of-date
wireline numbers, for which dialling of the new numbers became
mandatory in August 1998.)

Analogue AMPS mobiles are not long for this life; the
government-mandated shutdown of the network happens in most of
Australia (including all five of the million-plus population cities)
at the end of 1999, with remaining areas losing the service during
2000. The numbers for that service are ten-digit, in the ranges:


 +61 15 xxx xxx
 +61 18 xxx xxx
and parts only of
 +61 14 xxx xxx
 +61 17 xxx xxx
 +61 19 xxx xxx

There are apparently satellite services at:
 +61 07 1xx xxx
(due to finish in 2001)
and parts only of
 +61 14x xxx xxx

Other odds & ends include 
pagers, mostly taking up the bulk of:
 +61 16 <variable length>
UPT services (charged at mobile rates) at:
 +61 5xx xxx xxx
(One digit shorter indicates out-of-date wireline numbers)
and premium-rate wireline services at:
 +61 190 xxx xxx
 +61 197 <variable length>

For more details, try the Australian Communications Authority at:
 www.austel.gov.au
which I think is where I got the document with the above numbers.

While on the subject of Australian phone numbers, I have details of
the recent (since 1994) renumbering of geographic services at:
 www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/8842/8-digits.htm
It's mostly lists for old-to-new conversion and broad locations, and
some hopefully useful and relevant comments. Raw HTML text, with a
zipped Win Help file (almost identical) also available.


Geoff 
(to e-mail me, remove any instances of "-nospam" from my address)

------------------------------

From: Roy McCammon <rbmccammon@mmm.com>
Subject: Re: DSL and Cable Modems
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 08:54:33 -0500
Organization: 3M-Telecom Systems Division
Reply-To: rbmccammon@mmm.com


John McHarry wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 06:55:20 -0600, Msgt Paul Berens <Paul.Berens@
> spacecom.af.mil> wrote:

>> The consumer wants one bill

Not this consumer.  I want separate bills so I can refuse to pay the
ones that are mischarged.

------------------------------

From: jt5555@epix.net (Julian Thomas)
Subject: Re: How to Increase Public Acceptance of Overlays in California
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 15:27:15 GMT


In <telecom19.249.10@telecom-digest.org>, on 07/23/99 at 06:10 PM,
Joseph Singer <dov@oz.net> said:

>> What we really need to do is to go to eight digit local numbers, like
>> France and Japan did years ago.

> Perhaps this would work, but as has been written at length it is no small
> task to switch from the present NANPA format of 3+7 numbering.  Not only
> would it be a *major* task to convert every single CO in the NANPA

And the transition period would be even more challenging, when
equipment would have to work with both number sizes.  [surely you
didn't expect every CO in the country to switch at the same instant in
time]!!

> you would also have to convert any and every database that has 3+7 as
> defaults in their database. 

There's the next opportunity for the programmers who have been working
on the Y2K stuff!

[aside - I dislike intensely data entry mechanisms that assume:
    10 digit phone numbers
     2 character 'state' fields
     5 digit postal code fields.

unless the application has an absolute restriction to US addresses only].
 

 Julian Thomas: jt 5555 at epix dot net  http://home.epix.net/~jt
 remove numerics for email
 Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc  http://www.possi.org
 In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!

 Windows:  50 million flies can't be wrong!

------------------------------

From: gldyer-nospam@geocities.com (Geoff Dyer)
Subject: Re: The Dumber They Are, the Better He Likes Them
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:00:13 GMT


On Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:41:33 EDT, in comp.dcom.telecom was written:

> Notice how he spams all the newsgroups with his confession. 

Well, you must admit he *had* too, really, after suggesting in
presumably the same groups that people direct deposit to his bank
account. 

> Maybe someone in the general vicinity of the town of Findon in
> Australia can do a lookup on the address and phone number given for
> us. It would be informative to see if the address is a private home,
> a business, a maildrop or whatever. Likewise, is the phone number
> real, or does it just go to an answering service/voicemail of some 
> sort?

Looking up the Telstra WhitePages showed he has a residential phone
line at that street address (unit numbers are not included in
WhitePages listings). Both it and the number he gave are Adelaide
numbers. (Findon is a suburb of Adelaide.)

It'd be hard to tell for sure until anybody sucked in tries to get
their money back, but I think it's possible this bloke was more
ignorant than actually intending to rip people off. He's being very
public about backing down, he's giving the ASIC link, and at least
some of his contact details seem to check out ok. He's still an idiot,
of course. 8-)


Geoff 
(to e-mail me, remove any instances of "-nospam" from my address)

------------------------------

From: Robert Eden <rmeden@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Moderator's View on Net Commerce
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:17:45 GMT


Pat wrote..

> So you say well fine, the credit card company is there to protect you,
> and the same rules generally apply to 'debit cards' issued by banks
> under the VISA/MC brand name, so even if the payment comes out of your
> checking account at the time of purchase you should be covered, right?

Even if it is covered by the credit card rules, how many checks would
you bounce before you realized it?  With credit card fraud, you have a
billing cycle to check the statement and correct errors/fraud before
your money goes away.

What most people don't seem to know, is you can get all the benefits
of a debit card without the risk by arranging for your credit card
company to draft your full balance every month from your checking
account.  Combine this with a no-fee/ 25 day grace period credit card,
and you basically have a reduced risk debit card.

I refuse all of the "VISA" logo "ATM" cards my bank sends me and
insist on ATM-ONLY cards.  Those cards carry lots of additional risk
with -zero- additional benefit.  If my bank ever refuses to support a
non-VISA ATM card, I'll change banks.

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V19 #250
******************************