F I D O N E W S -- | Vol. 9 No. 27 (13 July 1992) The newsletter of the | FidoNet BBS community | Published by: _ | / \ | "FidoNews" BBS /|oo \ | (415)-863-2739 (_| /_) | FidoNet 1:1/1 _`@/_ \ _ | Internet: | | \ \\ | fidonews@fidonews.fidonet.org | (*) | \ )) | |__U__| / \// | Editors: _//|| _\ / | Tom Jennings (_/(_|(____/ | Tim Pozar (jm) | | | Newspapers should have no friends. | -- JOSEPH PULITZER ----------------------------+--------------------------------------- Published weekly by and for the Members of the FidoNet international amateur network. Copyright 1992, Fido Software. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact FidoNews. Electronic Price: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . free! Paper price: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $10.00US For more information about FidoNews refer to the end of this file. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Table of Contents 1. EDITORIAL ..................................................... 1 Editorial: Still not here ..................................... 1 2. ARTICLES ...................................................... 3 Response to: Netmail and Echomail are Different? ............. 3 Regarding the Commercialization of FidoNet via Support Echoe .. 5 Home Wine Making Echo -- VIN_MAISON ........................... 8 United Methodist Echo ......................................... 9 3. LATEST VERSIONS ............................................... 11 Software Versions List ........................................ 11 4. FIDONEWS INFORMATION .......................................... 12 FidoNews 9-27 Page 1 13 Jul 1992 ====================================================================== EDITORIAL ====================================================================== Editorial: Still not here by Tom Jennings (1:1/1) Your intrepid reporter is still at his secret remote location somewhere in the Specific NorthWest. Things are relatively quiet, and I like it. No fires, assasination attempts, protests outside my door, etc. I'll have to try harder; it seems I haven't made anyone mad for a few months now. (Not quite: my one-sentence mention of falling in love invoked the usual in-passing "good luck!" responses (thanks!), and two amusing responses: a request that I keep my sexual activities out of FidoNews (huh?!); the other was CC:'ed to me, a network manager at NCR informing his clients that he will no longer distribute FidoNews because of, quote, "the fag and his boyfriend". Sheesh. Can't seem to please *anybody*.) This issue is very late, same as last week. I'm having hardware troubles, same as last week. My BBS/node is a cruddy 286 motherboard sitting on a phonebook, with the power supply on the shelf next to it, hard drive and floppy sitting on the modem. The CGA monitor and keyboard are on the shelf above. Kinda minimal. It looks like hell, but runs great -- normally. It has gone down four times since I left town. Murphy's Law or what?! Tim Pozar paid a visit to the ugly box this morning (Monday) to kick start it. It didn't last; by noon it was dead again (I'm typing this on my Tandy 200). Had a roommate turn it on and off. Still dead. Pozar will visit again tonight. I'm sure when I get home it will be fine again. FidoCon '92 is coming up; see enclosed article this issue. The Computers, Freedom and Privacy Conference is coming up in Spring of '93. I'll keep you posted. Well that's all for now. I'll be (physically) back in San Fran late July. Hopefully Pozar won't have to run out here this week again... PS: to PRIME98.ART author -- please resubmit your article after making it conform to ARTSPEC.DOC, specifically, remove large ASCII drawings. Articles should contain text only, not pictures drawn with spaces and stars. I am unable to contact you directly because you used a zone number not in FidoNet. FidoNews 9-27 Page 2 13 Jul 1992 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FidoNews 9-27 Page 3 13 Jul 1992 ====================================================================== ARTICLES ====================================================================== Response to: Netmail and Echomail are Different? by John Souvestre, 1:396/1, one of the Zone 1 Backbone Hubs This is a response to an article by Aaron Goldblatt in FidoNews 926. AG> Big deal. Mail is mail. If it gets there nobody cares, and AG> when it gets dropped in the bit bucket it may take months to AG> get noticed. Not net mail. For example, the main program that I run which "checks" net mail is Message Track, by Andrew Farmer. It returns "bad" net mail to the originator, as much as is possible. AG> Tom said a while back that netmail and echomail routing schemes AG> are different - they serve different purposes and one should not AG> be fed into the routing stream of the other. Sysops who do, he AG> implied, take their chances. One should simply pass the netmail AG> through the *C system. AG> AG> Fine as far as it goes. There really is no *C system to route net mail, except at the net level as per Policy 4. There was for a while, but the Backbone has pretty much replaced it. Why? Because it is easier, cheaper, faster and more reliable. AG> If there truly are two different systems to route mail (and AG> nothing I've seen indicates that there really is such), ... Bingo! AG> Most of the software commonly used is up to the job, so why does AG> the mail disappear? From what I have seen, there are two main problems: 1) It never leaves the net where it originated because one of the local Hubs doesn't understand how to route outgoing net mail. 2) It has a non-FidoNet destination address. AG> The answer may lie in the fallacy that software such as message AG> bouncers and Grunged Message Detectors are always bug-free. The GMD (Grunged Message Detector) program doesn't touch net mail at all. It only checks echo mail. Also, if it decides to not pass a message it returns it. It does *not* delete it without returning it. AG> Let's assume that most local routing systems are fairly reliable FidoNews 9-27 Page 4 13 Jul 1992 AG> and mail doesn't get lost, at least at the net level. Bad assumption. See above. AG> Perhaps the sysops of systems that do (inter)national mail AG> transfers, such as Z1C George Peace at 1:13/13, should take a AG> look at their systems to make sure their automation doesn't AG> occasionally slip up. Software such as message bouncers, AG> Grunged Message Detectors, netmail routers, etc., can have bugs, AG> and mail can get fried because of these bugs. Bad assumption. We *do* check. AG> Perhaps instead of software that simply bounces, returns, or AG> deletes bad mail, what we need on the (inter)national level is AG> software that redirects bad or grunged mail to wait for human AG> intervention. Message Track does just that. So does GMD (for echo mail). AG> A perfect example is some echomail I sent recently with a bad AG> datestamp. It was formatted properly and everything, but my AG> system clock was set wrong. At the Zone 1 backbone level, the AG> GMD bounces any mail that has a datestamp of more than 30 days AG> in the past or more than 24 hours in the future. The sysop gets AG> a nice netmail message back about it. Bingo! By the way, your message was bounced by your Region Hub. It didn't get to the Zone level. AG> First, why did it go five or six systems up the chain before AG> getting bounced? Because not every Hub runs such software. AG> The netmail I got back was from the GMD at an echomail hub about AG> five systems up from my boss. The Region Hub that bounced it was one level above the Net Hub. Your net has an unusual arrangement in that it is fed by another semi-local net, hence your long path, mostly local calls, from the Net Hub who actually calls long-distance. AG> Presumably, PASCAL, INTERUSER, and POLITICS are fed to other AG> systems by the intervening four nodes, so why did I have to AG> resend the mail after it got that far up to make sure it went okay, AG> because, after all, by resending it, I duped the mail to every AG> system below the node with the GMD. Waste of my time, waste of AG> everybody's money. FidoNews 9-27 Page 5 13 Jul 1992 No, not "everybody's", only those 2% or so of the nodes "close" fed by that Region Hub. In general, messages older than 30 days are dupes. Stopping them this same way saves money for 98% of the nodes. It's a clear win. AG> Maybe what should have happened was my mail should have been put AG> in a special place for the sysop to look at, ... Perhaps you don't realize the volume of such messages in a single day. That's why the process was automated. AG> I'm not saying that I'm sure the GMD, mail routers, or mail AG> bouncers, do have bugs that cause them to kill mail, but it's a AG> possibility. We've all had problems with computers where the AG> only possible explanation was that you weren't sticking your left AG> thumb in your right ear while typing with your big toes. But the AG> software deserves a closer look; SOMETHING is killing the mail, AG> and I doubt it's an Act of God. You have presented no evidence that any software is at fault. I suggest that you send a test message and then trace it. Most Hubs have programs that put "via" lines at the bottom of routed net mail messages. Most Hubs have logs that show what routed net mail went through their system. It's generally not that hard to find the source of the problem if you are willing to spend a little time looking for it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Regarding the Commercialization of FidoNet via Support Echoes By: Paul Harney @ 1:107/579 Dated: June 29th 1992 Greetings to you fellow FidoNet members, The last time I addressed you in this newsletter it was to express concern regarding an echo which purportedly was to require a fee paid prior to allowing FidoNet SysOps the ability to be active in it. I write this follow up to report to you that this seems to no longer be the case. Due in large part to those of you who read my first article and spoke your mind regarding your personal preference to keep echoes that required fees from the FidoNet backbone, I have received word from the echoes FidoNet side Moderator Michele Stewert that she has received assurances from David Terry and CDC that there well not be any restrictions, as originally reported in the conference rules, by anyone at CDC. All FidoNet SysOps in good standing will be able to access the echo. Anyone may post or reply to a post. The only restriction still invoked is CDC's request to reserve the right to not reply to anyone their records show does not have a current account with them. As no has the right to tell someone they must respond to a post addressed to FidoNews 9-27 Page 6 13 Jul 1992 them, this presents no problem that I can see. Others will, as I said, be free to reply or post as they see fit and an account with CDC or SaltAir BBS is no longer necessary to access the forum. I wish to thank Michele Stewert and Butch Walker for handling the situation in such a complete and comprehensive manner. I wish to thank those of you who became involved, made your feelings known, and helped bring this to a swift conclusion. I trust this proves that the system can work with a little communication between the users and those who administrate the system for them. Be well and pax. Paul Harney ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Registration Form FidoCon '92 "Gateway Networking" September 4-6 Summit Hotel Dallas, Texas ------------------------------------------------------------- Price schedule -------------- Single occupancy for 2 nights, airport transportation, conference with breaks, lunch each day, Saturday banquet ..................... $182.80 Double occupancy for 2 nights, airport transportation, conference with breaks, lunch each day, Saturday banquet ..................... $254.80 2 Double Beds King-size Bed No sleeping room, conference with breaks, lunch each day, Saturday banquet ...................... $74.00 Thursday night early arrival .......................... $49.00 Conference and breaks only ............................ $20.00 Saturday banquet ...................................... $30.00 FidoNews 9-27 Page 7 13 Jul 1992 Credit Card fee ....................................... $10.00 Registration postmarked after July 31 ................. $10.00 Official FidoCon '92 T-Shirt .......................... $12.00* At the door ...................................... $15.00 Size: S M L XL Official FidoCon '92 Mug .............................. $8.00* At the door ...................................... $10.00 Official FidoCon '92 Cap ............................... $6.00* At the door ...................................... $7.00 Galleria Mall Day Bus Trip ............................. $1.00 ------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Network address: Mailing address: Voice phone number: Please circle the items from the above list that you desire, and indicate quantity if applicable. If you wish to split the cost of a double occupancy room and want us to find you a roommate: You must pay the full price for a single occupancy room at the time you register. We will refund the difference at the conference if we are able to find you a match. Please indicate if you have any preferences about your roommate (i.e. smoking/non-smoking). If you will be sharing a double occupancy room, please give us the name of the other person: Would you like a room with a modular phone jack? Do you require any special (i.e. wheelchair) facilities? Do you desire information about rental cars? What date/time do you plan to arrive in Dallas? FidoNews 9-27 Page 8 13 Jul 1992 What date/time do you plan to leave? Since the hotel rooms cannot receive direct-dialed calls without going through the hotel operator, we're considering installing an external line as a "FidoCon hub" to route netmail to the various hotel rooms. If you're planning to bring a portable computer with modem, do you have any interest in participating in this? * If you're not planning to come to the conference, souvenirs may be shipped to you if you include appropriate shipping and handling charges. Any surplus will be refunded. However, these souvenirs will be available only in limited quantity, and people showing up to claim them in person will have first choice. If you miss out, we will refund your money. ------------------------------------------------------------- Please make your check or money order out to "FidoCon 92". Note the July 31st deadline and associated late charge above. If you wish to pay by credit card, please contact 1:1/92 for more information. Mail your payment to: FidoCon '92 PO Box 550542 Dallas, TX 75355-0542 For more information, send netmail to Ron Bemis (1:1/92) or Henry Clark (1:124/6119), or call John Summers at the FidoCon '92 Hotline 1-800-899-3585. Exhibitors and speakers are currently being sought. Please send your proposal to the address above. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- VIN_MAISON An Echo devoted to the home wine maker by Chris Grainger Exception #13 BBS - 1:163/518 After several months in private distribution, I am quite happy to announce the availability of VIN_MAISON to all North American systems via the Zone 1 Backbone. VIN_MAISON started as a local message base on my BBS. Another local sysop noticed the area and asked if we could turn it to an echo and share the wealth so to speak. The echo quickly spread throughout systems in the Ottawa area. Soon, systems in British Columbia, Washington, and Montreal were participating. After several queries from nets in Dallas and Raleigh, I decided it might be time to apply for a more widespread distribution of the echo. FidoNews 9-27 Page 9 13 Jul 1992 Why make your own wine? I once thought that. Why should I invest money and time into a hobby that's gonna turn out schlock? Believe me, I've tasted home made wine before and it was terrible. However, the kits you can buy now are practically foolproof. You can make just about any style of wine you want. If you like Bordeaux's, you can make them. If you prefer Beaujolais styles, by all means, buy the kit and make it. Italian, German, Yugoslavian.... the possibilities are endless. If you get really hooked, you can even search out your own fruits and make wine from scratch. I must say, I get particular pleasure in serving wine I have made to friends. I tend to go overboard at bottling time and design my own labels to fix on the bottles. Most don't realize they are drinking home made wine til they take a real close look at the bottle. Another thing that I've noticed is that I'm never short a bottle to bring to dinner. You know the feeling, dinner party, in a rush, get home from work, wash, change, rush out to the local grog shop only to discover it closed. [grin] I moderate VIN_MAISON but am by no means an expert in the art of making wine at home. However, several knowledgable people take part in the discussions and one can learn much from participation in the echo. So, if you are a rank beginner or a seasoned veteran with countless fine vintages to your credit, please consider picking up the echo from your local hub and having a peek. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Spray 1:373/14 How many people out in Fido land are members of the second largest Protestant denomination? If you are a United Methodist, keep reading! (if not, you are welcome to continue reading, too!) I have formed an echo called UNI_METH. This is an echo for members & non-members of the United Methodist Church to talk about what is going on in the Church, and to ask questions about things such as: beliefs, the Ritual, the Discipline etc etc. All people are more than welcome to use this conference. In keeping with the ecumenical spirit of the United Methodist Church, all people of any religion or non-religion are allowed to pick up this conference. So, if you are interested, send mail to Chris Spray at 1:373/14. We are operating on a USRobotics Dual Standard, so speed should not be a problem. Just tell me that you are interested in picking up the echo, and I'll go into TosScan and add you in to the fellowship! God bless! FidoNews 9-27 Page 10 13 Jul 1992 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FidoNews 9-27 Page 11 13 Jul 1992 ====================================================================== LATEST VERSIONS ====================================================================== Software Versions List Please refer to the article in this issue... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FidoNews 9-27 Page 12 13 Jul 1992 ====================================================================== FIDONEWS INFORMATION ====================================================================== ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ---------------- Editors: Tom Jennings, Tim Pozar Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello "FidoNews" BBS FidoNet 1:1/1 Internet fidonews@fidonews.fidonet.org BBS (415)-863-2739 (9600 HST/V32) (Postal Service mailing address) FidoNews Box 77731 San Francisco CA 94107 USA Published weekly by and for the Members of the FidoNet international amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews. FidoNews is copyright 1992 Fido Software. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact FidoNews (we're easy). OBTAINING COPIES: FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and via uucp. PRINTED COPIES mailed may be obtained from Fido Software for $5.00US each PostPaid First Class within North America, or $7.00US elsewhere, mailed Air Mail. (US funds drawn upon a US bank only.) BACK ISSUES: Available from the following sources (and possibly others), via filerequest or download (consult a recent nodelist for phone numbers). Back issues are *NOT* available from FidoNews 1:1/1. FidoNet 1:102/138 (All issues) FidoNet 1:216/21 (All but 18 issues) Internet ftp.ieee.org, in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonew/fidonews SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable from 1:1/1 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". FidoNews 9-27 Page 13 13 Jul 1992 "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings of Fido Software, Box 77731, San Francisco CA 94107, USA and are used with permission. Asked what he thought of Western civilization, M.K. Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea". -- END ----------------------------------------------------------------------