F I D O N E W S -- | Vol. 9 No. 35 (31 August 1992) The newsletter of the | FidoNet BBS community | Published by: _ | / \ | "FidoNews" BBS /|oo \ | (415)-863-2739 (_| /_) | FidoNet 1:1/1 _`@/_ \ _ | Internet: | | \ \\ | fidonews@fidonews.fidonet.org | (*) | \ )) | |__U__| / \// | Editors: _//|| _\ / | Tom Jennings (_/(_|(____/ | Tim Pozar (jm) | | | Newspapers should have no friends. | -- JOSEPH PULITZER ----------------------------+--------------------------------------- Published weekly by and for the Members of the FidoNet international amateur network. Copyright 1992, Fido Software. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact FidoNews. Electronic Price: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . free! Paper price: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $10.00US For more information about FidoNews refer to the end of this file. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Table of Contents 1. EDITORIAL ..................................................... 1 Editorial: Same old path ...................................... 1 2. ARTICLES ...................................................... 3 Hurricane Andrew Hits Miami ................................... 3 Zone 2 would-be dictators, a reply ............................ 4 Do *C's have really power ? ................................... 12 Finally, some REAL FidoGrunts ............................. 14 FidoNet Democracy: Long Overdue ............................... 15 A message to Tom .............................................. 16 The FidoNet Sysop's Bill of Rights ............................ 17 File Nets Need Better Descriptions ............................ 22 Zone 3 Hub/Gate change for A_THEIST/HOLYSMOKE/SKEPTIC Echos! .. 23 GAME_DESIGN A new echo for Game Programmers .................. 24 Tourette's Syndrome Echo ...................................... 24 Progressive News & Views ...................................... 24 3. FIDONEWS INFORMATION .......................................... 26 FidoNews 9-35 Page 1 31 Aug 1992 ====================================================================== EDITORIAL ====================================================================== Editorial: Same Old path by Tom Jennings (1:1/1) The zone 2 holy war is quite well under way. Last week you saw an article hopefully explaining some of the troubles with the self-appointed heirarchy claiming control over the network, both as to by whom and how it is run, and in many cases trying to control *content*, by banishing conferences deemed "unacceptable" and by "permanently" banishing sysops. Last week there was an article by Henk Wevers of Holland; this week, Ron Dwight, ZC2, has an article in response. It seems obvious to mee that this is going to go on for a while, and like previous network obsessions, could get tedious. So I am now invoking recently-added FidoNews policy in order to keep the whole thing understandable to all: Quoting from ARTSPEC.DOC (2 Feb 92) ----------------------- RESOLVING CONTROVERSIES: (v3) Occasionally FidoNews is presented with a dillema: a "controversial" article generates a seemingly endless series of responses, commentary, rebuttals, etc, and threatens to overwhelm FidoNews. How to stop the stop the flood without violating the editorial policy? Here is the somewhat complex solution: If a particular article generates a cascade of responses, the editor does two things: (1) chooses one or few of them as representative; (2) passes them on to the original author, who is asked to write a response within 2 weeks. The resulting representative response(s), and the original authors response, are run in the next possible FidoNews -- ONCE ONLY. Interested parties can then pick up the torch and march with it off the long or short pier of their choice. End of ARTSPEC.DOC quotation. So starting now, I will set aside articles I receive related to this "war", and make them available as file "WAR", via the usual methods (filerequest from 1:1/1 or manual download). What actually happens will depend somewhat on the size and number of responses; if low enough, I'll of course run them all. Hopefully, if authors can see what will be coming up, via the WAR file, they can avoid asking the same question twice, etc. I will make sure the process remains open. FidoNews 9-35 Page 2 31 Aug 1992 This is slightly sticky because it'll probably be an ongoing thing. In the mean time, and after, I'll probably run small articles, especially if they're news-y and less than flame temperature. The goal of course is to prevent an incomprehensible glut of articles, but provide room for all to speak, as best as can be done in a vehicle such as FidoNews. (And of course all articles submitted will be available in the WAR file regardless of their status). * * * * * I am amazed at the number of people who completely missed my point regarding "policy" in FidoNet. Let me make it crystal clear. o I was not proposing that my, or anyone's "policy" document become the latest object of worship. o The only point of my "Articles of Confederation" was to make a contrast with the overdetermined piece of crap being waved around. o Simplicity is possible, and desirable. If an ordinary human cannot understand it, it is useless. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FidoNews 9-35 Page 3 31 Aug 1992 ====================================================================== ARTICLES ====================================================================== by Michele Stewart, 1:369/21 I Survived Hurricane Andrew... News at 11 At first we didn't believe it but on Saturday, not to take any chances, my husband, Peter, went to the store anyway to make sure we had enough food, candles, flashlights, batteries, tape and anything else he could think of. The place was jammed to the rafters with every cart being used at this area "super"store. We turned the TV news on that night and haven't turned it off since. Sunday, there was no doubt that Hurricane Andrew would hit our area; we started to prepare by bringing into the house all loose objects, flower pots, tools, etc., shoring up the fence, taping the windows, etc. Unfortunately, by the time he'd made it to the lumber yard, Peter discovered there was no more plywood to board up the windows with... and where you could get it, people were charging $30 a board! Talk about your carpetbaggers. We did the best we could with what we had. Following instructions by area experts, we had three 5-gallon bottles of drinking water, filled two empty 5-gallon bottles we had with tap water and filled our tub with water as well. An evacuation order was underway for people living near the coast and in high flood areas (not us, thank goodness) and the shelters were starting to fill up while others refused to leave their homes deciding to brave the imminent danger. By Sunday night, all buses had stopped running, the streets were pretty much deserted except for the news teams, cops and one or two stubborn individuals and all our computer equipment, modems, phones and peripherals were completely disconnected in anticipation of the 150 mph winds which were on their way. The power went out around 5:30am and between the loss of power and turning on the radio to continue listening to what was happening around the area, I could hear the winds howling around the corners of our townhouse. Loud cracks outside foretold of trees which had stood for years, snapping in two like matchsticks... thuds across the roof testified to shingles being ripped up and thrown around... torrents of rain attested to the flooding the streets would be under... We were up all night, huddled together watching the news on TV for as long as possible and witnessing the winds tearing into our city... and we, up in Broward County, at least 50 miles north of the eye of the hurricane, were among the lucky ones? By Monday afternoon, South Florida, more specifically, South Miami was pretty much destroyed by Hurricane Andrew, a level 4 hurricane, and the worst disaster to hit this area since the late 1920's. FidoNews 9-35 Page 4 31 Aug 1992 I'll never forget the look on my neighbor's faces when we walked outside to survey the damage. Trees were down everywhere, sometimes having lifted the concrete sidewalks they were next to. Power lines were down and debris was scattered. And we were lucky. 50-60 miles south of us, though a different city and county, still a part of us as we are a part of the whole South Florida area, mobile homes were flattened, roofs of homes and department stores and offices were ripped off and their contents scattered to the 4 winds. Our power was restored by 8pm Monday night and now I could witness the devastation left by Andrew. At least 15 people have died as a direct result of the hurricane either by electrocution from downed power lines, collapsed roofs and/or falling trees. Damage is estimated at over $15 Billion dollars!!!! Thousands of people have lost their homes and all their possessions. Looting is now of growing concern and the police, national guard and Navy are doing all they can to stem the tides. A curfew has been in effect for Dade County since Monday to help stop the looters and protect citizens... Since there's no power, you can't see where obstructions are and it can be very dangerous out there. It is anticipated that power will be out to some areas for anywhere from one to 4 weeks! This makes it harder on everyone. The airports are only partly open and President Bush has been down to visit us and declared the area a National Disaster Site! Tell me something I don't know. Like I said, I am one of the lucky ones. But there are thousands of people who are not as lucky and they need our help. I am going to a local food drive site and drop off whatever food I can to help those who now have nothing. I'm not sure what you can do but if you've a mind, I imagine calling your local Red Cross office can help. It seems logical that the National Red Cross would have info on what's needed here, whether it's food, clothing, medical supplies, whatever. But help is needed. I don't know how many of my fellow Fidonet friends I have down here still have their homes. I don't know who's been hit by this disaster and who's safe and fine. No news is coming out of Miami from the net since there's no power in the area. Good luck Louisiana. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zone 2 would-be dictators, a reply by Ron Dwight on 2:220/22 In order to obtain a balanced view, it is reasonable, in most societies, to listen to more than one side of a debate. I note with some horror of the absolute failure of our current IC, Matt Whelan, to follow this procedure, but I guess that is just a sign of the times. I will try to present another side to this saga in the hopes that it will become clear just who the "Zone 2 would-be dictators" are, in reality. I will try to answer as concisely as possible each point which Henk Wevers makes and add FidoNews 9-35 Page 5 31 Aug 1992 to this a couple of his own messages which hopefully will demonstrate the point he is trying to make (or avoid making!). --BEGIN-- It has been a long time since I was actively involved in the politics in fidonet. It has become necessarily to do so, just to be able to stay in fidonet. ---END--- I believe this is called "propaganda"! Henk Wevers's node number has NEVER been under threat save for the time when he informed us that he quit Fidonet should geographic nets be imposed upon "his" region. This "pose" has since been withdrawn when it was seen that he might be forced to live up to it. --BEGIN-- For the hundreds of sysops...... ---END--- There is little need to quote the large chunk which I have ommitted, it can be briefly summed up as "I formed zone 2 and You OWE me". Neither FidoNet as a whole nor zone 2 in particular owe either Henk or the HCC any debt, save perhaps for gratitude. Starting a net does NOT give anyone the right to flout the rules which we have all agreed to abide by. We all understand Henk was disappointed by the acceptance of Policy 4, I was even disappointed myself but FidoNet is NOT the servant of the HCC and it should not be allowed to become subservient to it. --BEGIN-- So if you look at fidonet in region 28 today and you want to join fidonet you have three choices: The regional net, and one of the club nets if you are a member. ---END--- Here is a CLEAR admission that membership of FidoNet nets is SUBSERVIENT to the will of the "clubs", you may join one of the club nets, IF YOU ARE A MEMBER. One of the fundamental reasons for the creation of a policy, which TJ so obviously dislikes, is the PROTECTION of the freedom and rights of the SysOp. Policy 4 makes certain GUARANTEES to new SysOps. It GUARANTEES that a SysOp may join a local net for the purposes of NetMail handling. Region 28 makes NO such guarantees unless you are member of a particular "club", even then you may be forced to make long distance calls to obtain mail. Just who is it that is being restrictive here, Policy or Henk Wevers and his "clubs"? You may ask, "but that's ok, we can create more nets". I agree, this would be a reasonable thing to do, but this question has already been asked in region 28 and the answer came back from the RC "We already have enough nets in region 28". Does this sound to you like a region in which "freedom" has gone walk-about? FidoNews 9-35 Page 6 31 Aug 1992 --BEGIN-- we solved the problem in region 28 in the beginning of this year by establishing one central echomail hub where all nets connect. The hub would be paid for by all participants. To solve the problem of all those hosts for people outside region 28 we established one inbound gateway for the region. Inner region netmail is exchanged directly between the hosts. ---END--- You will see a quoted message at the end of this text that he uses this gate, it's called TipTop, in order to FORCE SysOps in region to bend to his will. It is BLACKMAIL of the worst order and has NO place in a hobby organisation, except this is MORE than a hobby to some who "RUN" region 28. --BEGIN-- Back to Ron Dwight, the 2nd ZC2. After a discussion between Ron and some sysop the sysop called Ron a liar. When Ron complained at the IC he got an answer in the line: "this is something a ZC should be prepared for and he should not easily be annoyed". Ron pulled the plug, we had no ZC. ---END--- I have no idea why this is in here but I think, it too, comes under the heading of "propaganda." Let me give you a little reading tip which I use when reading this kind of article, ask yourself "What was written?", then ask yourself "WHY was this written?" For the latter question, you will often come back with, "for effect only". Let's try to stick to the matter at hand. --BEGIN-- The third ZC2 was Felix Kaska, He also was voted in being very popular because he imported free of charge the echomail from the usa. Felix had to resign for personal reasons, but not after a clash with region 28 where he tried to reorganize the nets so the club nets would disappear. ---END--- Which seems to go to show just how powerful the club nets are! I'm just real glad that I don't reside in Holland and have to live under this sort of regime. --BEGIN-- In came Ron Dwight again. He was all for democracy. He would not follow policy to the letter. He said then. Nowadays he writes policy with a capital P and declares it the Law. And he is after every region that does not follow policy to the letter. Democracy : No. Flexible interpretation of policy (what is in a word, why did we call it policy and not Law back then eh ?): No. Thou Shall Reorganize. ---END--- FidoNews 9-35 Page 7 31 Aug 1992 This is clearly incorrect as are many of the "facts" in Henk's article. Currently, every region in zone 2 except 25 (the UK) and 28 (the Netherlands) have democratically elected RCs. Region 25 will have a democratically elected RC in the beginning of next year and region 28 will have one as soon as suitable candidates can be found for an election to be held. Currently ALL potential candidates express actual FEAR of being nominated. FEAR of reprisals by the current RC structure. Yes it sounds unbelievable doesn't it? I assure you that it really is true, SysOps live in FEAR of the power of the *C structure in region 28. The messages to me (with the SysOp's names removed) are available at 2:220/22, drop me a line if you are interested. --BEGIN-- Boy, did we regret we voted for RD the second time ! ---END--- This is perfectly understandable as the interests which currently control the region are under threat. Honouring the policy which have ALL agreed to follow would mean freedom for the SysOps, but this will not be allowed to happen according to Henk's philosophy. --BEGIN-- Not being able to find a sysop in region 28 that could do Ron's dirty work Ron agreed with the then current (chosen) RC that the RC would try to reorganize within a year. That was march. 10 days ago the dutch hosts found a message on our board from some unknown dutch sysop telling us HE was the new RC and he demanded a session password with our systems so the nodelist updates were protected. Without consulting all of the NC's responded negative. A few hours later we received a message from the ZC2 confirming that he had replaced our RC. ---END--- Once again, you are presented with a "half-truth" and most of the story is (accidentaly?) ommitted. The previous RC/28, Hanno van der Maas, in fact made a written agreement to reorganise region 28 to conform to the requirements of policy. i.e. to remove overlapping nets. This agree was made in March 1992 and was to have been completed by the end of 1992. Three times between April and August 1992, crash mail messages were sent to the RC (Hanno van der Maas) asking for progress reports on the state of the reorganisation. All of these messages were ignored. A fourth message was sent in which Hanno was informed that he would be replaced as RC/28 if a progress report was not forthcoming. This invoked a reply which stated that "A meeting will be held WITHIN THE NEXT TWO MONTHS". I was also told to stay out of region 28 affairs. FidoNews 9-35 Page 8 31 Aug 1992 The progress for an agreed-upon reorganisation was NOTHING in over five months, not even a meeting had been arranged. Clearly this RC was not doing what he stated he would do and had absolutely no intention of doing it. He was replaced according to Policy 4. --BEGIN-- Now, there is a lot more cooperation in region 28 than Ron and the young guy (only being in fidonet a year as a point, not having experience as hub or host) thought. Within one hectic hour of voice telephone calls (we had each other numbers of course) we agreed fully. We RC, REC and NC's would not accept this replacement coup. On behalf of the group I wrote a message to the young guy explaining that he would not get any support of the *C's of region 28 and that he surely would recognize that he could not operate this way. We gave him 24 hours to reconsider. The response was that we would be thrown out of the nodelist if we would not cooperate. I called him voice. Explained how we were operating fidonet in the region. He responded that he would withdraw if he 'got something out of it'. When I asked 'what' he told me he should have a 'position' in fidonet after all the trouble he went through. I told him that he was lucky that we would allow him his nodenumber if he withdrew. 24 hours later most of us had been 'thrown out of the nodelist', including some sysops the guy had a personal problem with. ---END--- I'm glad that Henk put that last part in quotes as enough lies and half-truths have already been spread around the net. You can see for yourselves exactly how many nodes were 'thrown out of the nodelist' as the zone 2 list distributed in zone 2 is the same as that distributed elsewhere in the world. Please check for yourself and see this for what it REALLY is. Later you will see a copy of a NetMail message in which Henk (and his band of merry men!) clearly violate the rights of their own SysOps as well as some of the most fundamental freedoms within FidoNet. --BEGIN-- At least one host had been removed he told us. After another round of consulting our reaction was very clear. A complaint was filed about Frank (the would be RC 28) and honored within 5 minutes by his nethost. ---END--- A complaint issued AND honoured WITHIN 5 minutes! Surely this is not the action of reasonable FidoNet SysOps! This sounds VERY much like the actions of the military to me. Are you getting the picture already as to just WHO the bully boys are in this affair? It is also interesting to note that the region, which as a whole (according to HW) rejects Policy 4, is capable of issuing a policy complaint! Doesn't this seem like rejecting the law when it doesn't suit you and seeking it's protection when it's to your advantage? FidoNews 9-35 Page 9 31 Aug 1992 --BEGIN-- His actions were endangering the operation of fidonet in region 28 and for us were extremely annoying. The punishment was a three month removal from fidonet. We told him he could complain by the only RC we recognized, the one that has been voted in. We also password protected our links with our current RC28 so no games could be played by sending us nodelist updates we did not want. ---END--- Here you have a clear violation of policy in that several systems are DELIBERATELY password protected against another system, this action is clearly immoral as it deliberately imposes costs upon other systems. Not that I expect Henk or any of his cohorts to be bothered by that. These actions are not the actions of reasonable people, they ARE the actions of a frightened group of power-freaks who feel their power base about to break down. Retain control at any price, nice one Henk. It should also be noted that at this time several mail bombs were sent from Dutch SysOps as deliberate attempts to further confuse the situation. Threats of physical violence were also made by Dutch SysOps against other Dutch SysOps. --BEGIN-- We informed all of our nodes and advised them to do the same and to NOT automatically process the next nodelist. --END-- As you will see by the message from Henk Wevers, his use of the "advised" seems to be original to say the least. More appropriate terms such as 'blackmail' and 'threaten' spring to mind. ........ --BEGIN-- Up to now polls of our sysops have shown us that we have more than 90% of them behind us. As usual the fighting has become dirty, on both sides. Frank (the fake RC28) promised to reorganize everything, mail and echomail. In response we announced that the regional costsharing system was only available for systems in the regional nodelist published by our RC and that sysops that would like to be on RD's and Franks side should get their echomail from them. There should be no problem because the 'new RC' promised to get the echomail in. And we would be crazy to pay for people that wanted us to be excommunicated. --END-- Here you can see the blackmail very clearly, even before the text of the message I promised. I would be inclined to agree with the figure of 90% and they were ALL behind Henk, mostly cowering in fear of the reprisals, excommunications and removal from access to EchoMail which Henk has so obviously promised them. FidoNews 9-35 Page 10 31 Aug 1992 --BEGIN-- We informed all of our nodes and advised them to do the same and to NOT automatically process the next nodelist. --END-- Here's that ADVISED once again! --BEGIN-- The latest stand is that we jointly have set up a system that generates a zonelist, zone update, world list and world list update exactly the same as the one the ZC publishes, but with the correct region 28 included. Starting next week we will even provide a diff that revert this and will get us back on the ZC generated stream without having to turn to getting a full nodelist. Also region 28 lists and diffs are available and are being sent to everybody that communicates with the region. -- END-- Ok, here's the stuff I talked about earlier, concerning TipTop and how Henk keeps his SysOp's "in-Line", even against his own promises NOT to do so: From Tip-001.001, the initial documentation for the TipTop Gate(s). Document name : TIP-001.001 Document version: 1.0 Timestamp : 12 december 1991 created : 08 januari 1992 update 0.1 : 09 march 1992 release 1.0 Author : Henk Wevers Adresses Fidonet 2:500/1 Internet Henk.Wevers@f1.n500.z2.fidonet.org ......... Stuff removed Rules ? -------- I know people will scream for rules, ways to complain and other stuff. Sorry, we only have a few rules: 1) The people (organisation) organizing the regional TIPTOP gate must promise that every sysop with a nodenumber in fidonet zone 2 can have access to the echomail. ..... Stuff removed Fidonet TIPTOP relations ------------------------ I have no intention to interfere with fidonet. ...... Rest removed. FidoNews 9-35 Page 11 31 Aug 1992 It would appear that he had EVERY intention to interfere with FidoNet and in the WORST possible way. From Henk's IMMEDIATE use of TipTop as a blackmail weapon against his own SysOps it could be quite justifiably concluded that the inital creation of TipTop was nothing but a power trip, but the conclusion must be yours. The original document is fully identified and is available at many sites throughout FidoNet. The above two points written by Henk are the most important for the moment. Henk Wevers then writes the following message:- The SysOp forwarding the message to me SPECIFICALLY requested that his name be kept out of it as he was afraid of reprisals from the region 28 *Cs. He is a trusted and sincere SysOp and Henk Wevers has not disputed the translation made here. (114) Wed 12 Aug 92 16:40 Rcvd: Wed 12 Aug 17:53 By: A Dutch SysOp To: Ron Dwight Re: Nodelist a.s.vrijdag en TipTop St: Pvt Rcvd --------------------------------- Here follows the translation of Henk's message. In a message of <09 Aug 92>, Henk Wevers wrote to Allemaal: HW> Het is wellicht verstandig het volgende op te merken: It's worth mentioning the following: HW> 1) Door mij wordt uitsluitend de door de RC 28 gegenereerde HW> nodelist van Regio 28 geaccepteerd als juist. For me, only the Region 28 nodelist generated by the RC 28 will be accepted as correct. HW> 2) Die RC is de democratisch gekozen Hanno van der Maas This RC is the democratically elected Hanno van der Maas. HW> 3) Voor aansluiting op TipTop Regio 28 heb je een HW> nodenummer in Fidonet nodig For a connection to TipTop Region 28 you need a FidoNet node number. HW> 4) Sysops die voorkomen in de lijst van Frank HW> v.d.L Zullen na vrijdag NIET meer voorkomen in de officiele HW> Fidonodelijst. dat is de afspraak gemaakt door ALLE *C's in regio 28 FidoNews 9-35 Page 12 31 Aug 1992 Sysops who appear in the list made by Frank van der Loos will NOT be listed anymore in the official Fido nodelist after Friday, this has been agreed upon by ALL *C's in Region 28. HW> 5) Bovenstaande HW> houdt in dat dergelijke nodes na uitkomen van de nieuwe HW> nodelijst direkt van de TipTop R28 gate worden afgekoppeld. The above means that such nodes will be directly disconnected from the TipTop R28 gate after release of the new nodelist. HW> 6) Binnenkomende netmail HW> uit andere zones zal worden geretourneerd naar de afzender HW> met een uitleg van het probleem. Mijn systeem 'kent' HW> namelijk de door FvdL in bv net 2805 ondergebrachte nodes HW> niet en zal ze ook niet kennen. Incoming netmail from other zones will be returned to the sender with an explanation of the problem. My system does not 'know' about the nodes lodged by FvdL in e.g. net 2805, and will never know about them in the future. ........ the rest is not relevant to the current discussion but HAS been distributed in EchoMail in zone 2. The intent of this message is quite clear and is obvious blackmail. Henk is using the TipTop gateway in order to force nodes into submission and from what I read in my inbound directory he is being VERY successful with it. You now have a lot more of the "facts", please judge for yourself just who is bullying who and who are the "power- freaks" in zone 2. Ron Dwight, ZC2 and PROUD of a 'mostly' well operating zone. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Do *C's have really power ? =========================== by Henk Wevers (2:500/1) Hello Fidonetters ! After the initial article about region 28 last week I will try to follow up with short notices from region 28 and zone 2. I have had tremendous response so a lot of you must be interested. Rightly so, because what is happening could very well be the beginning of a change in fidonet. Kinda back to the basics movement. FidoNews 9-35 Page 13 31 Aug 1992 A lot has happened after last weeks article. The international coordinator has written a message to the zone 2 coordinator to immediately restore the situation in zone 2 to the state it was before the 'wars' started. Also the new RC28 that was appointed by Ron Dwight should be removed. The next thing that happened was that the zone 2 coordinator Ron Dwight refused to go back to the pre 'war' status. He removed the guy he just appointed to RC28 and tried to find another standin. No one was available so the zone coordinator made himself the regional coordinator of region 28. This will be a surprice for people trying to communicate with the RC28 when their mailer calls long distance in stead of the expected regional call. As you will be aware, the attitude of the sysops in region 28 is that no *C should interfere in a lower level unless invited to do so. The IC has been asked to help by us, we never asked the ZC2 to reorganize our region. Personally I have been telling people that there is no real power in fidonet. The only action a ZC for instance can take against you is to remove you from the nodelist. If you are alone in your struggle you have a problem, but if enough people support you there is an easy way out. Just distribute your part of the nodelist. This is exactly what region 28 is doing at the moment. We are producing our region segment and distribute it to every sysop, net, region or zone that wants it. This fails if no-one asks for it, but in the current situation there is much demand. As Ron is finding out at the moment this effectively neutralizes his 'power' as a ZC. If you think about it, this is a perfectly balanced situation. The power of a *C can be effectively made zero by distributing your nodelist segment. The last article I asked for help. A lot of people from different zones have asked how. Here is the first suggestion: ask your *C to distribute the region 28 nodelist segment. We can make it available in your zone if you want. If they cannot or wil not do so, help us spreading it. A very nice touch would be if the Zone coordinator would compile our segment into his worldlist. Ask him to do so. After all a ZC should be there for the sysops, right ? Wrong ! At least in zone 2 for the moment. Maybe your ZC is different, try to find out. I'll be back in two weeks. Henk Wevers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FidoNews 9-35 Page 14 31 Aug 1992 Finally, some REAL FidoGrunts By Erik VanRiper, erik@pdnfido.fidonet.org First kudos to Tom. Good Editorial. Glad you also published Pablos article(s). I am extremely happy that there are people_in_power (if "power" is what people like to call it, then we can call it that), are standing up and saying "NO!". I liked Pablos moving article about Zone 4, and his personal experiences in that area of the world. You may not think about it much, but happenings around your area of the world are interesting to others. We have a good medium here. Lets use it. Kudos (again) to our esteemed editor. His policy proposal is by far one of the best that I have seen. I did some minor work on WorldPol some years ago with Pablo et. al., and looking at Tom's proposal is a breath of fresh air. Not too wordy, leaves a lot to mature humans all working toward a common goal, and leaves a lot of room to grow. In other words, it is not a "you can do this, but not this" document, it is a "hey, lets all get together and pass mail back and forth, and here is a way that we can all keep in contact through the Nodelist!". There seemed to have been a bit of local heat here in Net 107 land (two weeks later) after my last article was published. Unfortunatly, nobody looked at themselves. All they could do was point fingers. I guess some things will never change. Oh well. :) Good to see the FileBone working so well. Expect some more traffic coming from the Internet in files and mail in the future... WorldNet is what we all should be working for, a collective effort of computer professionals and enthusiasts all over the world. Not just FidoNet (I understand it is reaching 18,000 humans now), but EVERYONE. New software, new ideas, new people... You would be suprised how much is going on out there, and how much work is going into the effort. Speaking of which, a public "Thanks" and a big pat on the back for the "fidonet.org" crew that work so hard at maintaining the Internet <-> FidoNet connection possible, esp. Burt Juda. These guys have really busted their collective asses to make things like this article possible. I know George Peace is out there somewhere, but I never hear of/from him. Maybe some wisdom from the Z1 (or ANY Z*C coordinator) would be valuable in a public forum. Since they are the ones running the show, getting them to talk to the little people through this Newsletter may be a good idea towards relations. As stated above, we have a good thing going here. USE IT. /* Erik */ FidoNews 9-35 Page 15 31 Aug 1992 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FidoNet Democracy: Long Overdue By Randy Edwards Sysop, Socialism OnLine!, 1:128/105.0 It was sad to read the various reports of troubles in parts of FidoLand in the FidoNews 934 issue. What was worse was not the stories of problems with *Cs, but rather the realization that the vast majority of these problems stem from one fact: the FidoNet has no standard procedure for electing the various levels of *Cs in a bottom-up fashion. In short, the FidoNet has no democracy that is mandated by policy. This is an old issue which has been brought up many times before in the net. Allowing Sysops to choose their *Cs is not set in policy, and is only practiced in a patriarchal way in some networks of the FidoNet. This fact -- the lack of bottom-up democracy -- has been a problem in the net for years, and it's the cause of much of our current *C problems. And what's worse, it doesn't have to be this way! There's no reason why we can't implement a policy that is based on the democratic principle of allowing the average Sysop to vote for her/his *Cs -- A policy that would empower the average Sysop and encourage cooperation, not the establishment of fiefdoms. There's no reason we can't have a flexible policy that is enforced by the will of the majority, not by an age-old "old boy" network. Several years ago, back in 1987 or 1988 -- when the IFNA controversy was the big issue in the FidoNet, I wrote up a draft "policy-type" document of standard democratic procedures for the FidoNet. While this document is by no means polished, it would have implemented a true system of democracy in the FidoNet in the way we elect -- and possibly remove -- our various *Cs. This policy, the FidoNet Sysop's Bill of Rights, was the ideological basis for the founding of at least one "other net," the EggNet. While the EggNet has had its ups and downs membershipwise, the EggNet has *never* had the cries of tyranny, accusations of dictatorship, and other bickering that now permeates sections of the FidoNet. Folks, the FidoNet doesn't have to mean "Fight-o-Net." While some arguing is inevitable, democratic procedures in a FidoNet-technology network works -- the EggNet is living proof of this. To stimulate your thought, included in this issue of FidoNews is the original version of the "FidoNet Sysop's Bill of Rights." Think of it what you may, but ... FidoNews 9-35 Page 16 31 Aug 1992 The time for change is long past due in the FidoNet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Title : A message to Tom Author : Fabiano Fabris Address: 2:285/304.100@FidoNet 57:3901/100@intlnet 69:391/100@gaynet This is an open message to Tom Jennings, whom I very much respect for all he has done for and in Fido, particularly since his "coming out" in a past issue of FNEWS. While I'm at it, and since most of my friends know already (be they "electronic" friends or not), I might as well state right off that I'm gay too, always have been, and never made a secret of it in the network(s). To those who seem to think otherwise, I can assure them that they won't "catch" my homosexuality buy using my software (yeah, I really did get a message to that effect). Anyway, that's beside the point, really. I'm writing about FidoNet, not about queers. Tom, the "beast" you have created is rapidly going down the drain; not from the technical point of view, but from the human one. Considering that Fido is (supposed to be) an amateur network, I am amazed at the power struggles which go on. In Italy, there are witch hunts against "OtherNets" that would put Salem to shame; in other regions, entire nets are cut off without warning from one day to the next; and there is a continual fighting about =money=; sysop echos are filled with angry messages by one sysop to another. Is that what you wanted, Tom, when you started FidoNet so long ago? Even though I joined only four years back, it was quite different then. Oh sure, there were squabbles, but nothing like this. I don't think this is what you intended. I've even heard of threats of blackmail! Where has the "friendly" atmosphere gone? The basic idea of linking people with a common interest? Now many of those people aspire to "importance" and "fame", either by holding an administrative position, or by being a "mail mover", or something similar. And there are even those who seek to make money from it ... and succeed. Why am I writing this? Well, FidoNet for me was a way to exchange ideas with other people around the world, to learn new things, and to get away from the stress of everyday life. But FidoNet has now become an even greater source of stress than day-to-day life. You may notice that I'm just a point ... the reason being that I was fed up with paying hard-earned money to import echos which were full of flames, and of little use. Then, when I heard of the blackmail attempt, and of coordinators being dismissed without warning, I decided it was just about enough. FidoNews 9-35 Page 17 31 Aug 1992 OK, there are still a lot of people out there who do this just for fun, and are not even aware of many of these things ... but since I =am= aware.... I read your editorial in FNEWS934, as well as Henk's article in the same issue. Tom, I agree with what you wrote 100%! Henk is trying to justify his actions and those of others, and obviously I don't have the information to comment. But my point is not that of whether he (or Ron, or anyone else) is right or wrong; instead, I'm wondering how FidoNet ever reached this point to begin with! I think EVERYONE should rethink the reasons they are in FidoNet, and whether it is correct to make all sysops "submit" to all this mess. Replies of any kind should be sent to me via net mail, please. I am crashable at +39-427-938827 (HST/V32/V42b,CM,XA). Fab ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The FidoNet Sysop's Bill of Rights By Randy Edwards Sysop, Socialism OnLine!, 1:128/105.0 This version of the Bill of Rights is a draft version. It is designed to show the multi-layer style of voting where every member in the net has a democratic vote in quick and fair elections. ----------------------------------------------------------------- [*] THE FIDONET SYSOP'S BILL OF RIGHTS [*] ver 0.15 [1] Any new POLICYx document must be ratified by the same process as an amendment or deletion to this document. (see #10 below) [2] (a) No node may delete or modify (except modification by recognized netmail utilities) intransit netmail unless it is obviously illegal in nature. Copying or recording of intransit messages is forbidden. An exception to this right is prior agreement between all parties. FidoNews 9-35 Page 18 31 Aug 1992 (b) No node may delete or modify (except modification by recognized net/echomail utilities) intransit echomail unless it is obviously illegal in nature. An exception to this rule is an agreed-upon conference moderator. All nodes must do any local modification or deletion ('chopping' or 'ed- meeseing') of echomail after it is scanned. [3] (a) Every node has the right to choose to be listed in either the local geographic network, or as an independent node in the local geographic region. (b) No independent regional node will be subject to any mandatory dues, taxes, or fees of any kind. (c) Every node has the right to run any FTSC approved software and no network will restrict compatible software types. [4] Every network will have an Election every 12 months. The election will be held in June (see {2} below), in honor of the month the original FidoNet converted nodelists. Every node in the network will have one vote towards the position of Network Coordinator. Elections are won by straight majority, but elections that are not won by more than 5% are submitted to an automatic revote within 30 days. This is to ensure the winner of an election has enough support to work effectively and to help prevent controversial election results. The Network Coordinator, upon election, will name an assistant. The Assistant Coordinator (at each level (Net, Reg., Zone)) will act as Coordinator at any time the elected coordinator is unable to. Additionally, if a Coordinator resigns, the Assistant will take over until the following election (or recalled by a recall vote, see below). The newly elected Network Coordinator will serve until the following June when a new election will be held. The Network Coordinator will act as a combination 'Prime Minister' and 'Representative' of the Net in addition to any other duties outlined in Policy4. Additionally, if there are 10 or more independant nodes in a Region, (termed a Group, see {1} below) they are also encouraged to have similar elections as above selecting one person to be thier Representative, though since independent regional nodes are independent, the Representative's position will be in an unofficial capacity (see below). [5] If at any time during a Network Coordinators term of office, if 25% of the nodes in the network agree they can submit a Request for Recall to the Network and Regional Coordinators, who will have 2 weeks to verify the Request for Recall and respond to the plantiffs via netmail. Within 60 days of the Request for Recall a new election will be held (unless the June election is within 60 days). FidoNews 9-35 Page 19 31 Aug 1992 [6] Every region will have an Election every 12 months. The election will be held in August (see {2} below), in honor of the month of the first FidoCon and the birth of IFNA and the start of democracy in the FidoNet. Every Network Coordinator in the Region will vote towards the position of Regional Coordinator. Additionally, if a Region has 10 or more independant nodes in it and the nodes have elected a Representative (see above), then that Representative will vote in the Regional elections. Each Network Coordinator (and Group Rep) will cast votes toward the position of Regional Coordinator which total up to the total number of nodes that the Network Coordinator (Rep.) had in his Network (or Group) at the time he was elected. But, if the total number of nodes in any one net or group in any particular region add up to 50% or more of the total nodes in that region then that net must be broken up into two (or more) nets to prevent unfair elections. The Regional Coordinator, upon election, will name an assistant and serve until the following August when a new election will be held. The Regional Coordinator will act as a combination 'Prime Minister' and 'Representative' of the Region, in addition to any other duties outlined in Policy4. [7] If at any time during a Regional Coordinators term of office, if 25% of the Network Coordinators (plus one vote for a qualified 10+ elected independant regional Group Representative) in the region agree they can submit a Request for Recall to the Regional and Zone Coordinators, who will have 2 weeks to verify the Request for Recall and respond to the plantiffs via netmail. Within 60 days of the Request for Recall a new election will be held (unless the August election is within 60 days). [8] Every zone will have an Election every 12 months. The election will be held in September (see {2} below), in honor of the month of the first St. Louis nodelist. Every Regional Coordinator in the Zone will vote towards the position of Zone Coordinator. Each Regional Coordinator will cast votes toward the position of Zone Coordinator which total up to the total number of nodes that the Regional Coordinator had in his Region at the time he was elected. If the total number of nodes in any one region in the zone add up to 50% or more of the total nodes in that zone then that region must be broken up into two (or more) regions. The Zone Coordinator, upon election, will name an assistant and serve until the following September when a new election will be held. The Zone Coordinator will act as a combination 'Prime Minister' and 'Representative' of the Zone in addition to any other duties outlined in Policy4. FidoNews 9-35 Page 20 31 Aug 1992 [9] If at any time during a Zone Coordinators term of office, if 25% of the Regional Coordinators (plus one vote for a qualified 10+ Group) in the zone agree they can submit a Request for Recall to the Zone and Int'l Coordinators, who will have 2 weeks to verify the Request for Recall and respond to the plantiffs via netmail. Within 60 days of the Request for Recall a new election will be held (unless the August election is within 60 days). [10] An amendment or deletion to this Bill of Rights or ratification of a new Policy document is done by a Constitional Convention. The exact procedure is this: If a node wishes an amendment or deletion (which should be thought out carefully, for it is a very serious matter) he must write up a Proposal for the amendment or deletion stating the reasons for a change. The proposal is sent to the proposing nodes Net Coordinator (or RC for a Regional Ind.) who must verify it by responding in no more than seven days to the proposing node via netmail. The Network Coordinator then will put the proposal on the Net ballot for next election (whether it be recall or the June election). If the proposal does not win by more than 5% then is is a failed proposal and no further action is taken on it. If the proposal wins by more than 5% then the proposal is submitted to each of the Regional Coordinators and to the Zone Coordinator. Upon receipt the Regional Coordinators have 60 days to vote on the Proposal and notify the Zone Coordinator of their vote. The Zone Coordinator will then tally the votes and notify the RC's and the Node who submitted the proposal of the RC's vote via netmail. If the RC's vote 75% in favor For the amendment or deletion then the Proposal is submitted for a Zone Constitutional Vote. The Zone Constitutional Vote (ZCV) is done in June. Every Node in the Network votes on a ZCV. The ZCV is done by placing the Proposal on each individual Network's (and qualified Regional Group) ballot for Network Coordinator. Each Network Coordinator will then tally his/her Network's ZCV vote and submit it to the Zone Coordinator who has 30 days to add up the total ZCV vote and report it to the RC's and NC's. The ZCV vote is won on a straight majority count of votes - but for a change to this Bill of Rights to take place the Proposal must 'win' the vote by at least 5% - if the proposal wins, but does not win by 5% then the Proposal is considered too controversial and is held over for an automatic ZCV revote the following June. FidoNews 9-35 Page 21 31 Aug 1992 --- {1} GROUP = A Group consists of 10 or more independant nodes in any given region. Some independent regional nodes don't directly vote in elections, but most large Groups organize themselves into unofficial 'mini-nets' for voting reasons, and elect a semi-official spokesman for the Group called a Representative to cast their vote in regional elections. Each Regional Group Representative election must take place in the same month and manner as other Regional elections. {2} ELECTIONS = A potential candidate for a Coordinator position must think long and hard before volunteering, the demands are many and the pay is nothing. A candidate must have already been a node in the particular net/region/zone for at least one year before you can volunteer to run. Before each election, candidates for the Coordinator position must volunteer six weeks before the actual election date to the current holder of the desired position and to the immediate superior coordinator. The current holder must verify the candidacy by replying via netmail to the candidate and notifying the immediater superior coordinator within 7 days. The ballot is then made up of prospective volunteers by the immediate superior coordinator. If there are no volunteers then the immediate superior coordinator is free to appoint a node to the position (who will be subject to recall), assume the position temporarily himself, repeat the election process at a specified date, or to seek the guidance of the next immediate superior coordinator. The ballot is then made up by the immediate superior coordinator of all the people volunteering for the position. This ballot should be posted as widely as possible by the current coordinator, candidates, and all net members beginning on the first day of the election month. This is the beginning of the election campaign. On the twenty-seventh of the election month the immediate superior coordinator will start accepting the actual ballots from the appropriate voters. The polls close at midnight on the last day of the voting month. The immediate superior coordinator then has 7 days to tally the votes and announce the results. If the current coordinator is to be replaced, then this shall be done within 7 days. [*] End of the FidoNet Bill of Rights [*] --- Standard version numbers are in effect: 1.23 1 = Major change, 2 = Minor change, 3 = Tiny change FidoNews 9-35 Page 22 31 Aug 1992 Version 1.00 will be when this document is implemented throughout the entire FidoNet! Changes: Version 0.15 * Changed who accepts and tallys votes from the current coordinator to the immediate superior coordinator. Version 0.10 * Added Policyx verification by ZCV. * Defined/outlined the election process. * Gave the NC's and RC's a "total vote" which is the total of the nodes at the time of the NC or RC's election. Since the FidoNet is made up of volunteers with limited time we cannot run a 'two-house' democracy (it'd be big, slow and would further hurt the effectiveness of the "dictatorship" of the various coordinators). So to directly represent the will of the nodes in the FidoNet we give the NC's and RC's voting power based on the total number of nodes under them. Simple, effective, and fair. * Added rights for discrimenation of software, and for no dues or fees to be placed on regional independents. Some networks might want to charge a fee, so it'll be up to them. The regional ind's will have the right never to be charged (since all nodes can be reg ind's). * Changes to recall and amendment percentages. Added net-vote for amendments to the Bill of Rights, stressed netmail verification, other minor spelling/wording changes ... Version 0.00 * Original draft. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- by Ian Evans - Sysop of Baudeville BBS 1:250/304 ian.evans@bville.gts.org I've recently begun using the services of the various File Distribution Networks and I'm amazed at the number of files that don't contain either a FILE_ID.DIZ or DESC.SDI file. Now granted not all systems are able to use those files, but there are an increasing number of utilities that will import these description files into the file directories of a BBS. FidoNews 9-35 Page 23 31 Aug 1992 How do these files help? Of paramount importance is the fact that they make the description more attractive to a user and may lead them to download the program, fall in love with it, and send off their registration money. The number of files appearing on boards is increasing at a dizzying rate. If they see this description: Makes coffee. They might download it. But this description lets them know what they are getting into: Version 2 of John Doe's Coffee Maker. Now supports the use of coffee's other than Columbian. Can do exotic blends and will make the coffee while you read your morning email. An expanded description also makes life easier for the sysop. I get several megs of files daily, and when I have a file_id.diz enclosed it makes my life easier when I have to catergorize the files. A file_id.diz file is a text file that contains up to 10 lines of next with up to 45 characters a line. I don't know what the solution is. Should the file nets educate the authors to use these files, or should they get permission to write their own when an author submits a file to the net without one. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher Baker Rights On! 1:374/14 Zone 3 Hub/Gate for Echos Changed! Jackson Harding, Sysop of 3:681/857, Moderator of SKEPTIC, and EchoGate for A_THEIST and HOLYSMOKE into Zones 3 and 6, has changed Net numbers. The Cockpit is now listed at 3:800/857 in the hills of Nairne in Adelaide, Australia as of Nodelist.241. Everyone with regular links to Jackson's system should make the necessary adjustments of passwords and configs to allow for this changeover. All ELIST info related to his Gate activities for the above Echos has been updated for the the next issue [ELIST209]. FidoNews 9-35 Page 24 31 Aug 1992 All of these Echos are now available on the Zone 1 Backbone as well as in Zone 2 via 2:241/6001 [another recent change] and in Zone 6 via 6:600/403. Zone 3 systems should contact 3:800/857. I hope you will join us or ask your Sysop to request a link via their regular Backbone connections! TTFN. Chris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- by Matthew Hudson of 1:3622/801.4 GAME_DESIGN echo now available! GAME_DESIGN is for game programmer's old and new. Are you having trouble getting that image to do just what you want? Need some help with the graphics modes? Can't get that mouse interface to work just right? Then GAME_DESIGN is the answer! The GAME_DESIGN echo is open to anyone needing help with designing a game program. BASIC, Assembly, C, C++, Pascal, and other language programmer's are all welcome to join in on discussions about graphics, image manipulation, modeX, and more! Not a programmer and have a good idea? Talk to a game designer and get the ball rolling! GAME_DESIGN is available from 1:123/19, The Memphis Mail Hub, or 1:3622/801, The XT Connection! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- By Bill Meck Tourette's Syndrome Echo Started At the request of one of my users, I have started a echo for those afflicted with Tourette's Syndrome. The echo is intended to be a electronic support group and chat area for those dealing with Tourette's Syndrome. This echo is just starting up and we are searching for systems interested in carrying this echo. If you are interested, please contact me at 1:264/100@fidonet to arrange a feed to TOURETTES. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "P_news" PROGRESSIVE news, views & poetry FidoNews 9-35 Page 25 31 Aug 1992 There are ALTERNATIVES. This is an echo conference for articulating ideas that challenge prevailing views. Except for "Anews" and very few others, there is a shortage of alternative networks. BUT NOW, there is "progressive" news, views & poetry. An alternative echo to discuss NEW VISIONS? Discuss news from the alternative press and on Anews, nytransfer, peaceNet, ecoNet, conflictNet with a little poetry thrown in. The "P" also stands for a "Peaceful" resolution of conflicts, wherever possible and not wars for oil or tyranny or right wing dictatorships because they are supportive of exploitive social orders. No more genocide in our name. It stands for "Poetry", that contains social commentary, and relates to the human condition. Poetry contains a language of its own. It is metaphor and images, a painting on the canvass of the mind, using words to evoke feelings and stir the sleeping soul. And it stands for "Progressive", that tendency for justice and more humane attitudes and a recognition that abuses will occur unless we vigilently struggle for the protection of the weakest, the dowtrodden and the most unfortunate among us. It is the recognition that we desperately need a clean environment, affordable housing, decent mass transportation. We need sanity and to vigorously move away from the conspiratorical hypocracy that rules. We need democracy for all the people and we don't have it, not enough of it, and we aim to get it, and that's human nature----or put in another way, in the nature of our humanity, to insist on decency, peace, and social justice. This echo is for PROGRESSIVE positions only. NO flames! NO right wing debate. NOT a forum for reactionary politics. Hank Roth, moderator ###### Work for Peace & Justice ####### Anyway the Left wind blows ... P_news is on the national backbone. If you would like a really different approach, a *REAL* ALTERNATIVE to the mainstream echo conferences your BBS now carries, AREAFIX P_news and give your users a unique alternative.. odin@world.std.com // Hank Roth, Moderator. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FidoNews 9-35 Page 26 31 Aug 1992 ====================================================================== FIDONEWS INFORMATION ====================================================================== ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ---------------- Editors: Tom Jennings, Tim Pozar Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello "FidoNews" BBS FidoNet 1:1/1 Internet fidonews@fidonews.fidonet.org BBS (415)-863-2739 (2400 only until further notice!) (Postal Service mailing address) (have patience) FidoNews c/o World Power Systems Box 77731 San Francisco CA 94107 USA Published weekly by and for the members of the FidoNet international amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews. Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is copyright 1992 Tom Jennings. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or FidoNews (we're easy). OBTAINING COPIES: The-most-recent-issue-ONLY of FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet. PRINTED COPIES may be obtained from Fido Software for $10.00US each PostPaid First Class within North America, or $13.00US elsewhere, mailed Air Mail. (US funds drawn upon a US bank only.) BACK ISSUES: Available from FidoNet nodes 1:102/138, 1:216/21, 1:125/1212, 1:107/519.1 (and probably others), via filerequest or download (consult a recent nodelist for phone numbers). INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.ieee.org, in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. If you have questions regarding FidoNet, please direct them to fidoinfo@fidoinfo.fidonet.org, not the FidoNews BBS. SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable from 1:1/1 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". FidoNews 9-35 Page 27 31 Aug 1992 "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings of Fido Software, Box 77731, San Francisco CA 94107, USA and are used with permission. Asked what he thought of Western civilization, M.K. Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea". -- END ----------------------------------------------------------------------