F I D O N E W S -- Vol.10 No.27 (05-Jul-1993) +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | A newsletter of the | | | FidoNet BBS community | Published by: | | _ | | | / \ | "FidoNews" BBS | | /|oo \ | +1-519-570-4176 1:1/23 | | (_| /_) | | | _`@/_ \ _ | Editors: | | | | \ \\ | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 | | | (*) | \ )) | Donald Tees 1:221/192 | | |__U__| / \// | Tim Pozar 1:125/555 | | _//|| _\ / | | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Submission address: editors 1:1/23 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Internet addresses: | | | | Sylvia -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Donald -- donald@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com | | Both Don & Sylvia (submission address) | | editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | For information, copyrights, article submissions, | | obtaining copies and other boring but important details, | | please refer to the end of this file. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ======================================================================== Table of Contents ======================================================================== 1. Editorial..................................................... 2 2. Articles...................................................... 2 Georgia State Wide Echo..................................... 2 An Open Letter to Joe Sysop / David Stark................... 3 NC's repeal United Nations Charter.......................... 4 Teen Net.................................................... 4 Region 24, continued........................................ 5 Farewell to FIDO?........................................... 5 An open letter to David Stark............................... 7 Comments about Jeff Murphy at 1:105/222.3 and VANPORT....... 8 "Madness in FidoLand... Part I?"........................... 9 3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 10 FidoNews 10-27 Page: 2 05 Jul 1993 ======================================================================== Editorial ======================================================================== Well, all is quiet here on the home front, and I sit in front of a terminal struggling for yet another snooze editorial. The problem with bad mail ending up at 1:1/1 seems to be tapering out, but we still get the odd glitch. A packet arrived this week with some 35 messages ... all undeliverable. Ironically, they seemed to be errors generated by a program to place the snooze into an echo. Hoisted by our own petard ... We are getting more and more articles via routed mail. Technically, all snooze articles are supposed to arrive as files, but with a few exceptions the routed mail is not a problem. As a temporary guideline, we would like to suggest the following rules for routed mail articles. (One of these days, a revision to AERTSPEC.DOC is going to get done). First of all, please include a tearline at the top and bottom of the actual article. Often, writers have a note to us as editors at the top, and it is difficult to know what is meant as comment to us and what is meant for the snooze. Say it is an article at the top, then put a tearline in. Secondly, anything coming in by netmail should NOT have any quotations, tables, or special formating. Netmail nearly always needs to be reformated at this end, and articles that rely on specific pagination/line formating create problems and work. If that is required, then send the articles in as files, as per ARTSPEC. Netmail articles are limited to paragraphs of text. And keep in mind, our address is 1:1/23, not 1:1/1. ======================================================================== Articles ======================================================================== Georgia State Wide Echo By Merrill Guice 1:3645/50 +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ | _ _ _ _ |_ _ __ | | (_)(_| __ (_'(_ | | (_)__) | | ._| | +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ GA-ECHOES the Fidonet echoes for the State of Georgia I would like to invite all sysops in the Peach State of Georgia (or our kissin' cousins on the border) to join us in a state wide hookup! The Georgia Echoes are currently running in Brunswick, Valdosta, Tifton, Thomasville, Albany, Athens, and Metro Atlanta. We have been swapping mail among ourselves since June 4th and traffic has built to over 45 messages a week. FidoNews 10-27 Page: 3 05 Jul 1993 The echoes we are offering: GA_CHAT A general Chat area GA_SALE Classifieds and Civic Announcements GA_ADULT Nasty Talkers GA_SYSOP Echo discussions and administration For complete echo rules, freq GA_ECHO.ZIP from 1:3645/50. The file includes a simple announcement for you to post for your users in your main message base. We are available on the Region 18 Hub in Memphis at 1:123/19 through the kindness of REC Steve Cross. Other locations for feeds are: 1:3645/20 Valdosta Robert Whitt, NEC 1:3617/3 Albany Joe Recker, NEC 1:3640/19 Brunswick Joe Harrell, Plain Vanilla Sysop 1:370/510 Athens Greg Shaffer, NEC 1:133/10 Atlanta B Noel, Atlanta Echomail Importers When you come on line, please post a howdy in the chat echo! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- An Open Letter to Joe Sysop / David Stark Dean Ridgway (1:357/1.103) ridgwad@kira.csos.orst.edu In regard to the article entitled "No Privacy Or Safety For Sysops" in issues 1024 & 1025 of the snooze... David Stark said: "Second, how does anyone expect the Fido community at large to take an article such as that one seriously? ''Joe Sysop'' indeed." I just can't let this comment slide. Things like this happen all the time. Just because you live in the United States don't dismiss something like this "because it just can't happen here." This case sounds VERY SIMILAR to the Akron Anomaly BBS trial that has been widely publicized on InterNet. In case there are some of you that haven't heard about it yet, I have uploaded a 12048 byte .ZIP file to my BOSSNODE (Computer Hotline 1:357/1) called ARKONBBS.ZIP, (Ok, I misstyped it when I ZIPped it up >:-S ) for FREQ. FidoNews 10-27 Page: 4 05 Jul 1993 NC's repeal United Nations Charter Just a sysop ?:9999/9999 FidoNet Nodelist for Friday, June 25, 1993 -- Day number 176 NOTICE -- NOTICE -- NOTICE -- NOTICE -- NOTICE -- NOTICE -- NOTICE -------------------------------------------- Currrent Policy Interpretation: Threatening or taking any legal action against any Fidonet Co-ordinator for enforcing policy will be considered excessively annoying. -------------------------------------------- My, my, my. So now the powers that be have decided they are above the law; that to be a Fidonet node one has to give up the protections of the courts, the constitutions of every country in the world, the united nations charter, and every common law protection since the Magna Carta. I did not realize that becoming a nodelist manager carried such weight. I have some news for whoever wrote the above. 1. Making threats against anybody for resorting to the court of the land is illegal in just about every country in the world. 2. Current policy prohibits breaking the law. Seems we have a mail loop here. I think I'll make a policy complaint. Who is running this show anyway? Are thay really that ego-maniacal, or just rather slow? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Teen Net by Matt Riedel (1:2606/408@FidoNet), (85:862/304@ITCNet) Teen Net, a network for Teens. Ever get mad at the world of FidoNet today, and say 'if I were any older, they wouldn't treat me this way'... Well If you are, join Teen Net, the Network exclusivly for teens. In this net we'll discuss the everyday life of teenagers, school, love, problems, etc. Let's face it, probably at least 35% of FidoNet is made up of teens, like myself. And, I would feel more at home, if FidoNet weren't so grown up. Not to flame FidoNet, it's Great, but some teens don't want to look stupid to the rest of the world. Teen Net one rule, don't be annoying. By this I mean: Don't make fun of people just because it's different, Don't close your mind, and be open to other ideas (Whoa!) FidoNews 10-27 Page: 5 05 Jul 1993 If you would like to join Teen Net, FREQ the Magic FileName: TEEN from FidoNet 1:2606/408, or ITCNet 85:862/304. In the packet, it should come with: Teen.Eco (A list of message echos) Teen.Exe (An application genarator) Teen.nnn (where nnn is a number for a nodelist) Teen.Rul (Rules [short doc... :)]) Think it over.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Region 24, continued Just a little addition, written down on Monday, June 28th. The retirement mail of our "beloved" RC was a fake, obviously created by one of his supporters. That's what I call good style :-( So the situation is now that many nodes demand of their new assigned NC's to remove their new nodelist entries. Don't wonder if R24 is significantly smaller with NODEDIFF.183 or NODEDIFF.190. What will happen to Fido in Germany is not clear. Maybe the major part of our region will quit the net if the old structures are not re-established in a certain period of time. If you want to support us (and I ask you to) feel free to Freq our alternative region file under the magic of REGION24 here at 2:2400/105 - just this AKA is supported. Markus ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Farewell to FIDO? by Keith Wood, BRASS CANNON BBS 1:304/8 Is this goodbye to Fido? I run a BBS in a small town in rural Northern Arizona. Or, to be more accurate, I run THE BBS here in Cottonwood. The nearest neighboring FidoNet BBS is 65 miles away in Flagstaff, where the Net is based, though there are two formerly-FidoNet BBSes in the next town over (Sedona, 25 miles toward Flagstaff from here). Having originally run the first "INTERCEPTED" BBS in California (back in 1985, running the original FIDO BBS software) then having been out of BBSing for several years, I was surprised to see what FidoNet had become during my absence. I started BRASS CANNON in 1991 with a 2400bps modem, and the FidoNews 10-27 Page: 6 05 Jul 1993 extent of my echo participation was in two non-Fido echoes. Then in February, the new NEC for :304 sent me a message threatening to pull my Fido Node Address for "non-participation in the Net." I explained to him in a return posting that A), it costs me more to call Flagstaff than it does to call MAINE; B), at 2400bps any echo is a costly proposition if it's not fed locally; C), I was in the middle of running Red Cross Disaster communications for severe flooding of the Verde River and I was only home to pack for possible evacuation (the BBS might be a moot point later that day), so "GET OFF MY BACK." Fortunately, the floodwaters went down before the BBS did, and his Netmail response was "Just kidding, I wanted to get you more active." A couple of weeks later I got a v.32bis modem, and started picking up echoes that he was already carrying, such as OS/2 and SF. I asked for one that he didn't have, but after a couple of weeks let that one go; I told him that I would not be able to send money on top of the in-state Long Distance charges, but at least I would be "participating." Then, last week, I got a Netmail message informing me (and other sysops in :304) that: With lack of support , we have no alternative but to shut down our echomail feeds. We will likely be taking a few feeds for our own use, however the free lunch has ended. If any of you feel there is any value in the feeds you receive, then you can continue them at $25 per year per feed, a sum that barely covers the telco costs. Since I can't afford to pay $25 per year (per echo?) on top of in-state Long Distance for calls at 9600bps, that started me on a hunt for alternate feeds by the cutoff date (7-1-93). This has got me nowhere. Not that I'm surprised. A couple of months ago I sent direct Netmail to a number of other BBSes to try and get a better feed for the SF echo (at that time, the SF feed was just unreliable -- as of this date, it's been a month since I got a feed of SF). It is possible that some of the sysops I've Netmailed did send me replies, but since I have NEVER received a single routed Netmail message in the 18 months I've been in FidoNet (a number have been sent), not getting any now is no change. I've even asked the NEC where I could get feeds -- his reponse was: The fate of the echoes is up to you. Sure, you have LD costs, but SO DO I. Mine are EXTREMELY COSTLY as I am feeding ALL OF YOU. $25 per year is a paltry sum compared to what I have to pay. Your choice. FidoNews 10-27 Page: 7 05 Jul 1993 Well, my choice had been to ask where I could get an out-of-state feed, and he just deamnded money, so I still have no idea were to look. Thus, it appears that BRASS CANNON will just not have any Fido echos after this week. In fact, since I haven't "supported the Net," I suppose the old threat to de-node me will come back into force. C'est le guerre. I'm a hour's drive away from Net 304 anyway. Maybe I should request to be an independent node while I still have an address to send mail from. Anyone wishing to help me, I would like V.32bis feeds from OUTSIDE ARIZONA, for these echoes: BRIT_CAR COMICS FILK OS2 OS2DOSBBS RAILFANS SF SIP_INCEST TEAMOS2 If you can help, please Netmail me DIRECTLY at 1:304/8 (or, if I get de-noded before you reach me, 602-639-1039). Yes, I know the NODELIST shows me at 2400bps, but we've been at 14,400 since March (despite notes to the NC -- who also happens to be the NEC). This takes us full-circle. Is this goodbye to Fido? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- An open letter to David Stark. Garth Kidd 3:800/828 In regard to your article entitled "An Open Letter to Joe Sysop" in issue 1025 of Fidonews -- Firstly, IMHO you're suffering from an over-abundance of capitals in your own title. Deem comments about glass houses and stone throwers included, or perhaps shouts of "KLANK!" and veiled references to cooking implements. What I'm writing about, though, is your huge beef with "Joe" having concealed a few details about his situation. You seem to view this as proof that he's got something to hide, has a problem, has an incompetent attorney, or indeed that he's guilty as all hell and is just some kind of alias-using troublemaker out to stir the pot. David, meboy, you've got an Attitude Problem. Pull your head in. If somebody is a bit touchy about their privacy -- for example, FidoNews 10-27 Page: 8 05 Jul 1993 someone who's just had half of their possessions raided away by the police -- let them keep it until such a time that they feel like giving you the rest of the facts. Isn't the witholding of information ("taking the Fifth") one of your constitutionally protected rights? If so, why assume that someone is guilty of some crime or other if they decide to exercise that right? Sheesh! -- garth [FYI, if he lived in Australia a likely reason for keeping his identity secret would be that his lawyer told him to. Joe might well be taking a legal risk by revealing the information he has. Which, of course, makes him a law-breaking alias user in your eyes anyway, so he =deserves= to rot in jail, right?] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comments about Jeff Murphy at 1:105/222.3 and VANPORT... From: Gulliver Flynn (1:209/216) Jeff, from my point of view, it looks like you tried (unsuccessfully) to initiate a hostile takeover of an echo. You wrote messages that were annoying and off topic, as declared by the moderator, and you wrote about it in other echos (which can also be considered annoying). You might be absolutely right in your crusade, but you're doing it all wrong. Upsetting the moderator isn't the best route to go, especially since he has the authority to cut your feed. And it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, if you're being disruptive in an echo, the moderator can (and should) cut you from it. By the way, did YOU decide the echo needed you as the moderator, or did the echo? If you decided it needed better/more/different moderation, you're out of luck, and will probably be called a fanatic, etc. If, on the other hand, the ECHO decided that better/different moderation was needed, and you were the man to do it, (although you handled it all wrong) you still have some options left. You SHOULD have had users/sysops of that echo NETMAIL the current moderator complaining about the lack of moderation, and ask that you be made the new moderator, etc. If that didn't work... Drop the echo, get everyone supporting your cause to drop the echo and start your own. Basically, vote with your feet. FidoNews 10-27 Page: 9 05 Jul 1993 "Madness in FidoLand... Part I?" by Jeremy Dailey (1:2613/276) All seems quiet in FidoLand... or so it seems... until one fateful Friday night... Since I'm long distance and non-CM, I decide to poll my mail server for my usual assortment of mail. Lo and behold, I receive a NODEDIFF filled with 193K of changes, mostly for Germany. What gives!? Three days later... Polling for mail, I receive FidoNews, where I learn of the Region 24 madness that has happened. All within a matter of 96 hours, a section of the world has been changed. Bizarre. These events have caused me to ask the following questions: 1. Will this madness continue? I DON'T want to see 193K NODEDIFF files each week when a region suddenly decides to convert itself. I have to pay for my feed, and at 2400bps, it's nasty. As well, I'm SICK of seeing ARC as the standard for FidoNet. Does ANYONE out there still use this ANTIQUATED software? I'd push for LHA to be the standard, due to the fact that FidoNews comes in that format, and IT'S FREE! No fees required for its use; it's perfect! Considering it would have shrunk that 193K NODEDIFF down to around 130K... 2. Can regions just be taken over like that? I guess our current Policy (4.07 -- last I knew) allows this sort-of thing. There are no strict guidelines prohibiting or governing such behavior. After seeing this, we NEED A NEW POLICY DESPERATELY! I'm asking that anyone out there who is SICK of this madness PLEASE speak up! I want to see FidoNet move forward, NOT BACKWARD... Along the same lines, I'd like to see which regions have NetMail routing fully implemented. I know that at least in Regions 12 and 13, mail routing has been successful... (Coming from the regions I've written to via Fido.) Thank you... Please, bring peace and progress to FidoLand soon, so I don't have to go griping like this... Jeremy Dailey - Da Software Systems 17 Prospect St., Delevan, NY 14042-9704 - +1-716-492-4541 voice 1:2613/276@fidonet.org 176:1716/42@rccnet.ftn jpd@rochgte.fidonet.org FidoNews 10-27 Page: 10 05 Jul 1993 (US Mail address and telephone number good until August 30th, when I move into a dorm room at RIT...) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Fidonews Information ======================================================================== ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ---------------- Editors: Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, Tim Pozar Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello, Tom Jennings IMPORTANT NOTE: The FidoNet address of the FidoNews BBS has been changed!!! Please make a note of this. "FidoNews" BBS FidoNet 1:1/23 BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14200/V.32bis/HST(DS) Internet addresses: Don & Sylvia (submission address) editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Sylvia -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Donald -- donald@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com (Postal Service mailing address) (have extreme patience) FidoNews 172 Duke St. E. Kitchener, Ontario Canada N2H 1A7 Published weekly by and for the members of the FidoNet international amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews. Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is copyright 1993 Sylvia Maxwell. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or FidoNews (we're easy). OBTAINING COPIES: The-most-recent-issue-ONLY of FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet. PRINTED COPIES may be obtained from Fido Software for $10.00US each FidoNews 10-27 Page: 11 05 Jul 1993 PostPaid First Class within North America, or $13.00US elsewhere, mailed Air Mail. (US funds drawn upon a US bank only.) BACK ISSUES: Available from FidoNet nodes 1:102/138, 1:216/21, 1:125/1212, (and probably others), via filerequest or download (consult a recent nodelist for phone numbers). A very nice index to the Tables of Contents to all FidoNews volumes can be filerequested from 1:396/1 or 1:216/21. The name(s) to request are FNEWSxTC.ZIP, where 'x' is the volume number; 1=1984, 2=1985... through 8=1991. INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.ieee.org, in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. If you have questions regarding FidoNet, please direct them to deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org, not the FidoNews BBS. (Be kind and patient; David Deitch is generously volunteering to handle FidoNet/Internet questions.) SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it. "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission. Asked what he thought of Western civilization, M.K. Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea". -- END ----------------------------------------------------------------------