F I D O N E W S -- Vol.12 No.10 (06-Mar-1995) +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | A newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: | | FidoNet BBS community | "FidoNews" BBS | | _ | +1-519-570-4176 | | / \ | | | /|oo \ | Sheep affairs desk: | | (_| /_) | Doc Logger 1:163/110 | | _`@/_ \ _ | Rev. Richard Visage 1:163/409 | | | | \ \\ | | | | (*) | \ )) | Editors: | | |__U__| / \// | Donald Tees 1:221/192 | | _//|| _\ / | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Submission address: editors 1:1/23 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | MORE addresses: | | | | submissions=> editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Don -- don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Max -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Tim Pozar -- pozar@kumr.lns.com | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | For information, copyrights, article submissions, | | obtaining copies of fidonews or the internet gateway faq | | please refer to the end of this file. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ======================================================================== Table of Contents ======================================================================== 1. Editorial..................................................... 1 2. Articles...................................................... 3 Clues, present and absent................................... 3 Snoop Project - Is anyone interested?....................... 4 The FREEBONE................................................ 5 Non-official Echos using Fidonet node system................ 7 3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 8 ======================================================================== Editorial ======================================================================== FidoNews 12-10 Page: 2 06 Mar 1995 The new Bell directory arrived a couple of days ago and it's got all kinds of politically correct stuff in the front pages, like where to get help in emergencies, but there are no listings for some countries. There are two pages of "codes for frequently called countries". What does "frequently called countries" mean? Why isn't the listing of country codes complete? You know how it is always good to have a back up plan if the currrent route mapping is somehow impeded? The back up plan isn't just computers. It is radio, small press, community theatre, gatherings, any form of free exchange of ideas. It only works if there's no censorship, though. Ideas scrunge and become flopsided if their wings are clipped. Sometimes i'm appalled at things i see and hear, and i wish everything was _nice_, but when i think about how imposed limitations of my senses wall me in, and how all i can ever truly have is my own mind, it becomes clear that for anyone else to tell me what i can and can not learn is for them to rip me off of everything. i'm suspicious of bandwagons and do-goodies. It's too easy to fall, frail, in a trail grooved out by fashion. For example, i was in an audience listening to Otis Clay and the Fire. I was sort of there by myself, becuase no-one i knew was going but i wanted to go becuase i used to listen to live blues and dance myself better, so it's almost a spiritual-type thing for me to go to blues shows. Wierd how bodies of people merge. I thought i was alone but i recognized lots of people there from being in other crowds with them. Groups are better when they happen accidentally. They tend to be more eclectic and subject-oriented rather than factious. The difference between Albert Speer in Nuremberg, and Bob Geldof in 'The Wall', is that Albert Speer constructed spectacles to suck people in and dry with glitz, while Bob Geldof made a movie to document and warn of the compelling thrill of mob psychology. Anyone who could watch The Wall and be inspired towards following Nazism is a total loser who wouldn't recognize a political slogan until it choked them while being rammed down their throat. ooops. i shouldn't have said "choked them and...total loser". That was violent imagery. Sorry about that. Maybe there lots of nice people who could let themselves believe ridiculous things because they are trying too hard to fit in with the crowd. I challenge anyone to describe to me how following groups could be more intellectually stimulating than being individual and interacting with lots of other individuals. I was listening to the CBC while driving to Toronto last week, and heard the news that the internet is being flooded with anti-semitic hate literature which must be stopped. I thought, FidoNews 12-10 Page: 3 06 Mar 1995 wow, there's yet another example of people getting hyped clueless about computer networks. I was reading a files list recently, and it included some examples of nazi-type hate literature [i guess it was that, from the file names]. The ik ilk was listed as "hate literature...paranoia reaches new heights". It does not bother me that these files exist, especially when they are appropriately named. I suspect they are there to keep the idiots out in the open, where we can watch them with skepticism. ======================================================================== Articles ======================================================================== Clues, present and absent by Kay Shapero (1:102/524) Well, if Mikhail Ramendik wasn't sure that the snooze was athiest-only before, I'll bet the reaction has convinced him of it by now. Did anybody actually READ his message, or is everyone still reacting to Steve Winter's sporadic diatribes? So he objected a single word meaning "to have sex" (or sometimes "to do bad things to"). This can be attributed to culture shock - not everybody's been desensitized to that term, and there are places even in the US where it still has the shock value it had in the US in general about 40 years ago. For a comparison, each of who who objected to his being upset please pick one of the current "unmentionable" terms of racial or sexual invective that might apply to you personally, and consider how you'd feel if someone you didn't even know used it on or around you. You may get a closer feel for what the problem was.) If you're still reading this after all the recent horsehocky, Mikhail, most of the stuff you objected to was not directed at Christianity per se, but at an individual who for years has been doing his level best to make of Christianity a hissing and a byword while posing as a representative of same. (Whether or not he's doing it on purpose I'm still not sure - but in practice this has been the result.) However, judging by all the hoopla, it would appear some folks have been so sensitized to this that they're seeing censors in every corner, and defending where they have not been attacked. That and I think some people manage tolerance of things in general by picking one religion, culture or whatever to dump on exclusively. But in answer to your questions, yes there are Christians in FIDOnet and yes some of us read the snooze and no, there is no Official FIDOnet religion or anti-religion. For which we can all be grateful. FidoNews 12-10 Page: 4 06 Mar 1995 Snoop Project - Is anyone interested? Fredric L. Rice The Skeptic Tank 1:102/890 25/Jan/95 Greetings, one and all. It might come as no surprise to you that some systems in FidoNet do not get all of the Echo Mail messages intended for them. The causes are many, ranging from technical malfunctions, through operator stupidity, to willful destruction. There is no solid way to determine if a system has not seen a batch of mail unless an Echo Mail participant makes comments alluding to messages which were never seen. Even at that there is no way to determine how many messages were not seen and from which originating systems they came from. The Snoop Project seeks to provide statistical information on the messages which are not seen by a system. While that might seem to be a metaphysical problem better suited for philosophers to contemplate, the mundane solution is to simply ask other systems about the Echo Mail messages they have seen and for the two systems to compare notes, reporting on messages the other did not see. Snoop doesn't exist yet so I'm wondering if I should expend the week or so required to hack it up. I'm solicing input from the boys and girls in the network who might be interested in finding out if they have a problem and if they do, how extensive it is. How Snoop would work is pretty simple. 1) After inbound message packets have been tossed, Snoop is run, looking into *.MSG message directories which contain Echo Mail messages, compiling a list of the MSGID's and origination network addresses of all of the messages. 2) Snoop would also check the inbound network subdirectory for Snoop Report messages addressed to it and, if finding any, would look for the requesting system's log history file specified as a FileAttach in the message addressed to it, unzip the file, and then compare the MSGIDs in the file against those it knows about in its own local history file. A report on the differences would be generated and a copy would be sent to back to the requesting system and another copy would be sent to the SysOp of the local system. The requesting system's FileAttach files (zipped and unzipped) would be deleted. 3) Using a command-line argument, Snoop would create a Snoop Report Request message addressed to another system, zipping-up its local history file and setting it up for FidoNews 12-10 Page: 5 06 Mar 1995 FileAttach. So from the perspective of the systems employing Snoop, maintaining a history of seen messages and offering reports to systems which want to compare notes is fully automatic and doesn't cost anything. Snoop is run from the batch process which still automates most FidoNet systems. Requesting a report from a system would consist of running Snoop to request the report, sending the Snoop Report Request off to the target system, and then polling the target system later to get the resulting report. If a HUB were to employ Snoop, there are obvious advantages in being able to compare notes against it. -=- The project has already started. -=- I'm soliciting input from everyone who might be interested in using the program. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The FREEBONE An alternate concept in Echo distribution By: Radical Notions- comments to (1:106/207) Free thinkers are disturbed with FIDOnet. I hear it buzzing on my netmail channels and in many echos I see movements to"clean up FIDO" or even make all echos "suitable for children's/minors eyes". This is perfectly normal from a sociological standpoint. Inclusion of the massses means accomodation of the most common denominators. Good standard structure for development to be honest. It seems T Jennings might have a little of that sociology majik in his blood as well, judging from his past articles to FIDOnews. If not, he at least recognizes that diversity (snicker) exists and must be accomodated. Kudos to the early geeks who fought the software battles and then endevoured to include the entire world in on their secret (bless their little mis-guided hearts) via the net. You guys did a great job and now the nodelist is so big that you wouldn't even be able to hold it on a typical 1984 vintage hard drive......but, it isn't just the Parselst compilers that are choking in FIDOland. We now seem to have a steady movement to take the FIDOnet away from the diversity that was enjoyed in the past and supplant it with a sort of "Universal Code of Conduct" that will be acceptable to the common masses and thereby avoid undefined and sometimes wholly-percieved problems that may or may not come to pass. Yes, the legislation of FIDO is here and congress is in full swing, passing backbone policies, making rulings that have the bearing of precedent and with even it's own Supreme Court. Yes, we Americans in FIDO made damned sure that eventually that this mess would get ORGANIZED and that it would be controlled to rigid standards of conformity and we have the POWER to do it...damn it! That is because we are right and FidoNews 12-10 Page: 6 06 Mar 1995 the rest of the world is full of crap. If the sysops in any zone with a number larger than 1 is involved, they had better write their complaint in ENGLISH or they will be excommunicated for violating POLICY and they will recieve 4 lashes with a Singapore cane before we will let them back in again. Right..... Well, almost. The fact is we aren't there _quite_ yet but it looms over us at every corner. Fido is getting too big for the echo concept unless some sort of division comes about. That division will have to be more than just a duplication of echos time and time again to accomodate the warring factions or our conference list might exceed the meggage of our nodelist at some point.....but, since every Tom, Dick and Martha in the world is now getting a spiffy 14,400 modem packaged in their computer as standard equipment, we are literally being flooded as a net. Not only do we have a heck of a lot of nodes participating...but those nodes are racking up userlists that a few years ago would have been unheard of....the individual boards are being flooded on the bottom layer. Reorganization and re-accomodation is coming and we either will accomplish it or eventually dissolve in chaos. I propose _adding_ a new backbone to the fido distribution heirarchy. This backbone would carry and distribute it's own mail and do it's own cost recovery as well as develop media-control philosophy without regard to the BACKBONE or FILEBONE setups. This is where echos that don't meet the starched-shirt standards of the BACKBONE (where children have a right to see it all) are placed. This would be where "offensive" echos could be placed and then we can let the marketplace decide if a conference floats or boats. No sysop would ever again be able to say that they expected "goodie nice" language in a controversy area and got trashy smut....if they are on the FREEBONE they have no standing and if they are on the backbone they can file a smut-PC or something. Since all nodenumbers would be FIDO numbers issued by the plain-ole ZC weekly, some power is given to the backbone people to enforce persons who stray into the BACKBONE from the FREEBONE areas that refuse to leave. Notify the sysop...nuke the number. Simple. In return, BACKBONE would be expected to remand complaints that originate on the FREEBONE _back_ to FREEBONE control heirarchy for disposition. Co-operative division with structured "national boundaries". Some will probably find a lot of fault in this, some will find merit. I see it as the only way to adequately control the _type_ of information delivered to each point and squelch the whines of the Starched-Shirt crowd. I suppose a lot of them will want to fight such a division, because it wrests control from their hands and negates the opportunity to force people into compliance with The Agenda. To them, I say too bad. Power is as power was.....tell it to Hitler. FIDO has traditionally "grown" to reasonably accomodate all of the multiple people-types out there in the digital void. I think FIDO can evolve again and accomodate those of sensitive mentalities without squelching those of radical mentality. Persons interested in the FREEBONE Project can write to me at FidoNews 12-10 Page: 7 06 Mar 1995 1:106/207 and express your pleasure or displeasure with the FREEBONE concept. Or, you can just snip out the following shorty and patch it to me netmail here to voice your view: --------------------------------------------------------------------- My vote on the FREEBONE issue is: (Multiple answers are acceptable) [ ] I think the FREEBONE is a big crock of crap and you should be shot for subversive and treasonist action against FIDOnet. [ ] Sure, the idea needs tweaking but I think the FREEBONE could work. [ ] You personally disgust me, you Cat-murdering loudmouth. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Non-official Echos using Fidonet node system by S. C. Martin Wong Hong Cong an Macau users can now use these 9 special echos using Fidonet, YO!net and the Hong Cong net node system. 1. Discussion on Vivian Lai echo Moderator: Makoto Wong 6:700/663.12 Aim: Give a place to every Vivian Lai fan to discuss their idol. Node System: Fidonet Connection agents: 6:700/663.0, 6:701/3.0, 6:700/760.0 enews@hkmhbr.mhbrgrp.hk Newsgroup: ALT.FAN.CHINESE.BIG5.VIVIANLAI 2. Discussion on Winnie Lau echo Moderator: Benny Tsang 6:700/61.8, BENNY.Tsang@HK.SUPER.NET Aim: Give a place to every Winnie Lau fan to discuss their idol. Node System: Fidonet Connection agents: 6:700/663.0, 6:701/3.0, 6:700/760.0 enews@hkmhbr.mhbrgrp.hk Newsgroup: ALT.FAN.CHINESE.BIG5.WINNIELAU 3. Discussion on Tacry So Moderator: none Aim: Give a place to every Tacry So fan to discuss their idol. Node System: Fidonet Connection agents: 6:700/663.0, 6:700/760.0 enews@hkmhbr.mhbrgrp.hk Newsgroup: ALT.FAN.CHINESE.BIG5.TACRYSO 4. Discussion on Linda Wong echo Moderator: Kevin Cheung 6:700/660.3 Aim: Give a place to every Linda Wong fan to discuss their idol. Node System: Hong Kong net, Fidonet, YO!Net Connection agents: 6:700/663.0, 6:700/760.0 FidoNews 12-10 Page: 8 06 Mar 1995 5. Discussion on Hacken Lee echo Moderator: under vote Aim: Give a place to every Hacken Lee fan to discuss their idol. Node System: Hong Kong net, Fidonet, YO!Net Connection agents: 6:700/760.0 6. Discussion on Cass Pang echo Moderator: under vote Aim: Give a place to every Cass Pang fan to discuss their idol. Node System: Hong Kong net, Fidonet, YO!Net Connection agents: 6:700/760.0 7. Discussion on Priscilla Chan echo Moderator: Chiu Ka Chun 6:700/90.5 Aim: Give a place to every Priscilla Chan fan to discuss their idol. Node System: Hong Kong net, Fidonet Connection agents: 6:700/760.0 8. Cross Fire Echo Moderator: none Aim: Give a place to user for political problems Node System: Hong Kong net, Fidonet, YO!Net Connection agents: 6:700/760.0 9. Heart-Link Moderator: none Aim: This is a general purpose area to discuss everything! Node System: Fidonet Connection agents: 6:700/663.0, 6:700/760.0 If you are a system operator outside Hong Kong and Macua, but you hope to connect to these 9 non-official echoes, you can send Email to postmaster@hkmhbr.mhbrgrp.hk or send netmail via Fidonet or YO!net to Martin Wong (6:700/760.0 or 6:1010/569.0). If you need additional information or advice, send email or netmail by the same route. * editors note: This arrived by snail mail, and was typed in by us. Please excuse any mistypes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Fidonews Information ======================================================================== ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ---------------- Editors: Donald Tees, Sylvia Maxwell Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar FidoNews 12-10 Page: 9 06 Mar 1995 Tom Jennings "FidoNews" BBS FidoNet 1:1/23 BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS) more addresses: Rev. Richard Visage -- 1:163/409 Don -- 1:221/192, don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Sylvia -- 1:221/194, max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com (Postal Service mailing address) FidoNews 128 Church St. Kitchener, Ontario Canada N2H 2S4 voice: (519) 570-3137 Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation of individual articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews. Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is Copyright 1995 Donald Tees. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or the eds. Articles by Madam emilia may be retransmitted freely through cyber-space. OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet. PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above paper-mail address, or trade for copy of your 'zine. INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org, in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. Anyone interested in getting a copy of the INTERNET GATEWAY FAQ may freq GISFAQ.ZIP from 1:133/411.0, or send an internet message to fidofaq@gisatl.fidonet.org. No message or text or subject is necessary. The address is a keyword that will trigger the automated response. People wishing to send inquiries directly to David Deitch should now mail to fidonet@gisatl.fidonet.org rather than the previously listed address. SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable FidoNews 12-10 Page: 10 06 Mar 1995 from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it. "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission. "the pulse of the cursor is the heartbeat of fidonet"... -- END ----------------------------------------------------------------------