F I D O N E W S -- Vol.12 No.14 (03-Apr-1995) +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | A newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: | | FidoNet BBS community | "FidoNews" BBS | | _ | +1-519-570-4176 | | / \ | | | /|oo \ | Sheep affairs desk: | | (_| /_) | Doc Logger 1:163/110 | | _`@/_ \ _ | Rev. Richard Visage 1:163/409 | | | | \ \\ | | | | (*) | \ )) | Editors: | | |__U__| / \// | Donald Tees 1:221/192 | | _//|| _\ / | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Submission address: editors 1:1/23 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | MORE addresses: | | | | submissions=> editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Don -- don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Max -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Tim Pozar -- pozar@kumr.lns.com | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | For information, copyrights, article submissions, | | obtaining copies of fidonews or the internet gateway faq | | please refer to the end of this file. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ======================================================================== Table of Contents ======================================================================== 1. Editorial..................................................... 1 2. Articles...................................................... 2 Freedom, Network, Future World.............................. 2 The Return of the Archons: "You Are NOT of the Body!"....... 3 Legal Briefs: The Judge has no Clothes...................... 5 F.A.C.TNet reports serious censorship attempts.............. 6 Who Owns an Echo?........................................... 9 3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 10 ======================================================================== Editorial ======================================================================== FidoNews 12-14 Page: 2 03 Apr 1995 Whew! At 10:15 in the evening, Sunday, I looked in the inbound and there were *no* articles. Then I checked my mail, and three were waiting. Then two more came in while I was reformatting the first three. So there will be a snooze for another week. Max is away this week, at the computer privacy conference in San Francisco, so I am stuck doing this alone. If there were articles sent to Max, rather than to "Editor", then they will have to wait for next week. Mail is set up here so that mail to specific people cannot be read by anybody else. Mail to "editor" gets split and sent to both of us. I hope that does not upset anyone, but I am not willing to violate the privacy efforts on this board for the sake of a late article. It would be particularly ironic to do it this week . SYAITE. ======================================================================== Articles ======================================================================== Freedom, Network, Future World. by S.C.Martin Wong (6:700/760) Computer network develop very rapidly after 1992.In U.S.A, a lot of people is using InterNet.In Hong Kong, over 1000 BBS is running, a lot of is using InterNet via InterNet Services Provider (ISP).But some troubles is happening now.We must solve these troubles quickly to protect the computer network development and the human rights. In March, Hong Kong some ISP were closed because OFTA and police forced these ISP close down by telecommucation act.In Hong Kong, every people open BBS or ISP, if the BBS and ISP provide any E-Mail, these BBS and ISP should have PNETS license and pay 9cents/per min to Hong Kong Telecom.But most of BBS and ISP haven't any PNETS license, that mean most of BBS and ISP in Hong Kong is illegal, expect some file-oriented BBS. We can say this law is out-dated.But some large ISP use this law hope make a big barrier to block another people use "Information Highway".I think the Hong Kong Government do not up-date the law, nobody can believe Hong Kong people have any human rights after 1997. In U.S.A, the new telecommucation act make the network citizen lose a lot of rights which we must have.I think some stupid politican hope make some stupid law to restrict the human rights in network.But these politican will destroy U.S.A economic future by these laws. But if government haven't anty laws to restrict some people do some absurd thing in network, network will be a black places in the world.Then , what can we do? FidoNews 12-14 Page: 3 03 Apr 1995 In my opinion, government should make some suitable laws with BBS system operator, ISP owner, university professer and some professional people in network world or computer world.Some points is every law maker should know, and use these points to make the law : - - These law can protect the human rights. - These law can block the people to do some illegal things in network world. - These law can make the network citizen have a equal opportunity to use "Information Highway". - These law is easy to execute. - These law can up-date very easily. - These law can make some pressure to every ISP provide better services in the acceptable prices. "Information Highway" is a turning point of human history, "Information Highway" development is another important revolution of human history.I hope every government in the world can use the suitable policy to welcome this revolution, don't do any stupid thing to welcome. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Return of the Archons: "You Are NOT of the Body!" From: Fredric Rice (1:102/890) The Return of the Archons: "You Are NOT of the Body!" Another Meandering Tirade? Greetings, Editrix and FidoNewsers, and a big 'hello' to all the intelligent life out their. Since I like rhetorical questions so much on call-in talk shows, I'll also ask the host "How're ya doin?" I would like to say a few things about FidoNet and Internet systems which maintain archives of hate materials -- an issue you touched briefly upon in one of the last issue of FidoNews. I think 'mindless conformity' becomes popular due to a lack of desire to put forth the effort to think critically along with the desire to be on what is percieved as "the inside." After all, those who don't conform are censored, demonized, and made sacrificial Goats -- a highly successful vehicle for unifying the fractions of dogmatic conformers against non-conforming freethinkers. My opinion, sure, yet I think it an obvious conclusion to reach. You comment upon Nazi hate literature, Editrix, being available on FidoNet systems and it's good that you recognize that they're made available so that we can, as you say, keep an eye on "them." In fact, on my system, I have over 10,000 files which deal with the distasteful. Much of it is exactly as you describe. Much of it is far worse. I have a file which describes the book titled, "The Death Penalty for Homosexuals is Proscribed in the Bible" yet that file doesn't exist here because I agree with the claims the book FidoNews 12-14 Page: 4 03 Apr 1995 makes, it is because I recognize the need to distribute details about such materials _outside_ of the circles where it normally perpetuates: among those who already believe and are looking to further entrench their astounding hatred and bigotry. If it is already believed that homosexuals should be executed, when that is entrenched, a critical mass will be reached and mob rule takes over. Every time, in fact. Demonize the innocent and you win the hearts and the minds of those who mistakenly feel disenfranchized and who are resentful (and the utterly ignorant and dimly stupid) then you may use them to further the rest of your political agenda. And I will be Goat-fucked if I'll be censored, I might add. I understand that in Canada there are "false news reporting" laws which have been used to censor Holocaust revisionists. Such laws, I feel, are _dangerous_ to the liberties of free speech even though it allows for those who hate to have their say. They should. Yet the "false news reporting" laws of Canada could be used against systems like mine which make hate materials available for download, censoring the very information I feel is very important to _stop_ the pendulum of fascism and make it reverse its direction toward tolerance. I tell you, Editrix, FidoNewsers, and all intelligent life forms in the universe, resistance _isn't_ futile. Simply having files of information about fascist groups and allowing them to speak for themselves is all the effort that is needed to dispell them -- among the intelligent, I might add. No appeal to reason has ever swayed a bigot, in my opinion, and I seriously doubt that it ever will. I took a magazine to work one day which delved into the history of bigotry against blacks predicated upon various versions of various religious mythologies. You've seen the comments, I'm sure, of how none of the people on Noah's magic boat were black because blacks were taken aboard as but one of the many other animals. According to some brands of that religion, a female (always blame the female) mated with a "Negro animal" and thus we have blacks today. (You should see some of the photographs which were included in these books in the centuries past, depicting 'negro animals.' Demonizing is bad enough; making the enemy less than human is what helps nations feel no moral difficulty in slaughtering the peoples of other nations -- or the peoples of their own. Or enslaving them.) One of the new hires where I worked saw his brand's race mythology being reviewed -- blacks, according to his version, were caused when the 'Cain' of the 'Cain and Able' mythologies was 'marked' for having gutted Able with a number 7 golf iron -- or whatever was used those days before the invention of snub-nosed hand guns. He is told that blacks aren't allowed into his 'heaven' because they are decended from 'Cain.' That's a good excuse to keep blacks out of his church, you see. Was he angry? You bet. Could he deny the details of the quick overview? Well, no. But that didn't stop him from being very angry... angry enough to ask if he could keep the magazine to show FidoNews 12-14 Page: 5 03 Apr 1995 his leaders. Why he was angry gets complicated, I think, because he couldn't very well claim that the review was mistaken. He was most probably angry because the vehicle for his bigotry was exposed outside of the context within which it is usually given: in his church, a place where questioning the dogma is forbidden. My point is that having such materials available and not making any commentary other than to label it for what it is should be enough. If growing mindless conformity broadens to include the belief that such materials be censored based upon the belief that people will download them and adopt their fascist philosophies, I think that the censors instigate the growth of the very thing they mistakenly seek to stop. What a fun subject, ay? I can't help but feel that we'll weather the current dark age and emerge the stronger for it. Networks such as FidoNet and Internet can't help but be a good tool for keeping the windows open and the light shining through -- even if we have to expose the darkness. Lovely rhetoric. Fredric L. Rice 1:102/890 (818) 335-9601 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Legal Briefs: The Judge has no Clothes From: Fredric Rice (1:102/890) FidoNews 12-11: 'I have been discussing the proposed ECROC standard with a sysop on the NEWSCHAT echo. He is all for it, as he wants to prevent moderators from ejecting anyone from an echo without "due process".' Greetings, Editrix. I suspect that the individual who contrived such a plan simply didn't think about the consequences and merely has a bone to pick with the moderator of a specific forum. The call for making each and every forum a legalistic pseudo-democracy with mob rule goes against every ideal and reason FidoNet has developed upon. The suggestion simply has no benefits to offer and as such holds no merit. I will go one step beyond and take another position which _does_ have benefits to offer. We've discussed this subject somewhat and there is a great deal of support for it. Specifically, the suggestion that anyone who threatens or makes good on his or her threat to take legal action against another SysOp should be grounds for having the individual ejected from the network immediatly without any recourse to being allowed back in. As you've mentioned before, anyone with a valid case against a SysOp would face ejection under that rule and my response is: good. That's perfectly acceptable. In our liticious society, anyone who is forced to face an uncomfortable truth and is incapable of defending his posistion FidoNews 12-14 Page: 6 03 Apr 1995 through rational argument finds that the only way to strike out and make the hurtful truth shut up is to threaten law suit. This goes against the whole structure of FidoNet and Internet where open dialog and understanding -- and yes, out-right flame wars -- are expected and perfectly reasonable means of communication. Complaints otherwise are always (and rightfully) greeted with the fact that the door is always open and one is free to leave. Such a rule as ejecting anyone who threatens legal action against a SysOp has the benefit of making hot-headed argument loosers think twice; most of the times it would make them think at all. In addition, it wouldn't detract one iota from an individual with a valid legal complaint from taking the SysOp to court. It would mean the loss of their FidoNet access, sure, yet for something an individual thinks strongly warrants legal action, the loss of FidoNet connectivity should be of no further concern. I'm sure that as FidoNet grows ever larger and more and more users recognize the benefits of uncensored, non-commercial networks, more and more people who loose their arguments and try to defend unsupportable posistions will end up with their backs to the wall and human ego being what it is in an ever increasingly liticious society, _eventually_ FidoNet rules are going to have to adopt such a measure. True, perhaps not as strict as I suggest -- surely some will argue that valid legal suits shouldn't cause the ejection of an individual -- yet eventually, I feel, something will need to be put in place to squelch the artifacts of human frailty and ego which threatens to bring down the whole house down upon the rest of us. That's my opinion. It damn well should be everyone's. I might also add that the subject you brought up is greatly related to my comments above. How long will it be before someone points at a FidoNet echo and demands that it must go -- then takes the moderator of the forum and "corrupt FidoNet officials" to court? Fredric L. Rice. 1:102/890 (818) 335-9601 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- F.A.C.TNet reports serious censorship attempts From: Fredric Rice (1:102/890) Rcvd: Fri 31 Mar 19:23 To: Fredric Rice (1:102/890.0) (818) 335-9601 Fwd: Message from FACTNet Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 17:26:49 -0500 In article <3l5d8t$is4@news.primenet.com> you write: Lawrence asked me to post this. FidoNews 12-14 Page: 7 03 Apr 1995 SUBJECT: EMERGENCY MESSAGE TO INTERNET USERS INTERESTED IN PROTECTING THE FREEDOM OF information on the THE INTERNET FROM LAWRENCE WOLLERSHEIM CO DIRECTOR OF FACTNET For those of you unfamiliar with me I am a co-director of the United States non profit 501(c)(3) victim advocacy organization and electronic library and archive called FACTNet. We provide electronic information on dangerous cultic groups like Jonestown, Waco, the Swiss Solar Temple, and Scientology. Lately we have focused on public records and research information on Scientology because of the dangerousness of this group, its economic size, and its worldwide history of criminality. Scientology has responded to our collecting and electronic making available of these public records by threatening our organization with 4 lawsuits using three different law firms covering everything from copyright infringement to libel and slander. They have followed and intimidated our staff, attempted to infiltrate to possibly sabotage our organization, threatened our Internet Web page provider with a lawsuit, and they have even threatened to sue our secure mail and offices services provider (Mail Boxes Etc.) if they even send out another fax out for us. Through Scientology's now notorious overt and covert operations (just one was as widespread anonymous mailings calling FACTNet's Board of Directors and network associates everything from criminals, perverts, con men, CIA operatives to insane) Scientology seems to be taking every step to destroy our ability to archive and preserve public records and research and make those records available to the public who wants them now or who will want this information in the future. Over the past year FACTNet has been able to survive this onslaught, but we are a small humbly funded all volunteer organization and are getting to the point that if our insurance premium is raised because of all these new threatened lawsuits we will not be able to continue to exist. (We are paying $1,000 a month in insurance now.) We also are concerned the library and archive may soon be made unavailable to the public because we believe that we are about to be raided and our equipment seized. We believe Scientology is preparing to do a search and seizure of our premises based on false affidavits and illegal applications of copyright law as it applies to religious freedom. This raid expectation is not at all paranoid. This just happened to Dennis Erlich an outspoken Scientology Internet critic. Although our organization is expendable and our staff have come to grips with we may be run out of operation by the nazi tactics of Scientology, the information in our library is NOT expendable and much of it is NOT replaceable. We urgently need you to help us frustrate this new "electronic book and library burning" evolution of Nazism for the 90's called Scientology. Do this by downloading as much of our library as you can to safe places around the world and helping get our report out. FidoNews 12-14 Page: 8 03 Apr 1995 It is very important for you to help us tell the Internet and non internet world what is happening to us. Pass and copy this message to other BBS's, other libraries and library associations, and other Internet Newsgroups so that everyone who should know about this new Scientology form of electronic book and library burning and intimidation on the Net will be informed. (We simply do not know everyone to turn to and who is best out there that can help us frustrate Scientology's efforts to destroy our library and to curtail Internet freedom of information.) If others are informed maybe they will know what to do to creatively and ethically to show this neo nazi cult the power of free and open dialog and what will happen to them when brave individuals and brave coalitions are willing to fight for this valuable freedom which libraries and archives such as we at FACTNet help preserve. For those faint hearted who have heard what Scientology does to its critics, take heart. It is not generally known, but if you can last the harassment Scientology is horribly unsuccessful in the courts. It really has NO victories other than intimidating critics by spending or scaring them into silence. Like cowards Scientology usually only attacks those who have no insurance or whom they believe are weak or they can intimidate or wear down. I do not say the following lightly or for effect. Scientology really IS the new face of Nazism, a "white" collar new evolution of Nazism drawn in substantial part from the worst of the secret society principles and occultism of the old Nazism. (FACTNet has a report coming out soon on all the details of this.) For those of you who understand what Nazism does if it is not resisted and understand the "NEVER AGAIN" painful lessons learned from the rise of the first generation of Nazism we invite you to stand with FACTNet to stop or frustrate this ruthless organization's efforts before it destroys our library. If you are going to help you must act now! We have only a matter of a few weeks left before we may loose our insurance and be forced to go off line because of Scientology's activities. Begin downloading all of or the best of our library so the information is preserved. Our direct BBS # in the U.S. is 1-303-530-1942. Call this number and follow the instructions on the screen. (There is no downloading charge and the downloading is unlimited.) Thank you for your help, ideas and courage in advance, Lawrence Wollersheim Lawrence Wollersheim, Co-founder and Executive director of F.A.C.TNet, Denver, Colorado, USA e-mail: lawrence@factnet.org FidoNews 12-14 Page: 9 03 Apr 1995 Who Owns an Echo? by Jerry Schwartz 1:142/928 Who Owns an Echo? It is clear to me that Bob Moravsik and I are not likely to reach any agreement on this subject; he would likely object to the very title of my submission. Nonetheless, since I have strong feelings about this issue and a personal interest in it (I moderate a fairly large echo, WINDOWS), I can't resist at least asserting my position. Quite simply, I believe that a moderator DOES own an echo. He acquires it by election, by inheritance, or by an act of creation. Like any saloon-keeper, the moderator can set any tone he likes. Some echos are rough-and-tumble, some more formal; some encourage "vigorous" debate, some allow no debate at all; some adhere to a strict definition of topicality, some do not. Those are individual choices by the moderator, and he must be allowed to enforce them. If the participants in an echo don't like the moderator's style, then they can very easily form another echo more to their taste. My own echo has schismed several times, not because of any issues of moderation but because some people found it hard to track subtopics in such a big echo. I didn't have to give my permission for this; I wasn't always consulted, although in some cases I was; and that doesn't matter, because I COULD NOT HAVE STOPED IT even if I had tried. About the only thing I could have done was to force the moderators of the other echos out of mine. That would have been stupid and spiteful, and probably would have driven yet more people out of "my" echo. It is absurdly easy to start a new echo; in the last two years the number of echos on the backbone has almost doubled. No moderator has a monopoly on a topic, and that's a fact. There are plenty of saloons in cyberspace, and plenty of vacant lots, too. It's no great tragedy if some moderator takes his style from the Red Queen and entirely depopulates his echo; it just frees up bandwidth for others. As to the matter of "proving" that a rule has been violated, etc., before someone's access can be cut - well, that isn't always easy. For example, my echo seems to attract a certain number of juvenile Beavis and Butthead wannabes who will suddenly post a dozen obscene, taunting messages. I'm not about to start building a case, sending multiple netmail warnings, etc.; I will pull their plug as soon as I can crash mail to the offender's home node. In such situations, speed is important if I hope to maintain any kind of control. A somewhat similar problem arises when someone announces that he disagrees with the rules and intends to ignore them. That's gets FidoNews 12-14 Page: 10 03 Apr 1995 you the gate immediately, too. In other situations, the offense may not be clearcut to someone who hasn't been following the echo for months. There are not a few individuals who seem to enjoy walking the edge, constantly testing to see what they can get away with. Some of these folks eventually become good citizens; some eventually get their access cut, even though no handful of messages necessarily proves the point. To expect me to argue a case before a tribunal of some sort is an imposition. For how many months would something like this be dragged out, months during which the offender would be essentially untouchable. Finally, what could possibly be the benefit of forcing a moderator to tolerate behavior that he has declared inappropriate? Moderators do not have any ability to control the posting of messages before the fact; they cannot remove messages after the fact; they cannot edit them; and they cannot force any system to carry them. The ONLY things a moderator has going for him are the degree of respect he has earned, and the ability in extremis to cut someone's access. Putting every decision up for appeal to some outside authority can only undercut a moderator and make it impossible for him to use the best tool he has: persuasion. The first time it becomes known that a moderator's decision was overturned, he becomes powerless. Any sysop who disagrees with my opinion can start their own echo, and/or stop carrying mine. It's that simple. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Fidonews Information ======================================================================== ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ---------------- Editors: Donald Tees, Sylvia Maxwell Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar Tom Jennings "FidoNews" BBS FidoNet 1:1/23 BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS) more addresses: Rev. Richard Visage -- 1:163/409 Don -- 1:221/192, don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Sylvia -- 1:221/194, max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com (Postal Service mailing address) FidoNews FidoNews 12-14 Page: 11 03 Apr 1995 128 Church St. Kitchener, Ontario Canada N2H 2S4 voice: (519) 570-3137 Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation of individual articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews. Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is Copyright 1995 Donald Tees. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or the eds. Articles by Madam emilia may be retransmitted freely through cyber-space. OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet. PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above paper-mail address, or trade for copy of your 'zine. INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org, in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. Anyone interested in getting a copy of the INTERNET GATEWAY FAQ may freq GISFAQ.ZIP from 1:133/411.0, or send an internet message to fidofaq@gisatl.fidonet.org. No message or text or subject is necessary. The address is a keyword that will trigger the automated response. People wishing to send inquiries directly to David Deitch should now mail to fidonet@gisatl.fidonet.org rather than the previously listed address. SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it. "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission. "the pulse of the cursor is the heartbeat of fidonet"... -- END ----------------------------------------------------------------------