F I D O N E W S -- Vol.12 No.45 (06-Nov-1995) +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | A newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: | | FidoNet BBS community | "FidoNews" BBS | | _ | +1-519-570-4176 | | / \ | | | /|oo \ | | | (_| /_) | | | _`@/_ \ _ | | | | | \ \\ | Editors: | | | (*) | \ )) | Donald Tees 1:221/192 | | |__U__| / \// | Sylvia 1:221/194 | | _//|| _\ / | | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Submission address: editors 1:1/23 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | MORE addresses: | | | | submissions=> editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Don -- don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Sylvia max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | For information, copyrights, article submissions, | | obtaining copies of fidonews or the internet gateway faq | | please refer to the end of this file. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ======================================================================== Table of Contents ======================================================================== 1. Editorial..................................................... 1 2. Articles...................................................... 2 Response to Mr Fredrik Bennisons............................ 2 3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 3 ======================================================================== Editorial ======================================================================== I listen to a lot of the sysop echos, even post in a few of them. It strikes me, lately, that the fights have become almost ceremonial in nature. As if the participants know there has to be a better way, but have not quite figured out how yet. It strikes me that relationships should have a reset button. A big red one that we could press every once in a while, and start over. Without the harsh words. Without dredging up old history from a previous, and younger life. I read the wizard of Oz recently. Maybe declaring a new variable actually does create it. Like magic. Here is my favourite all time poem by Max. She called it Quickie Code: push push push POP P.S. Please forgive such an unbalanced editorial. ======================================================================== Articles ======================================================================== Response to Mr Fredrik Bennisons article in FNews 12/43 (23-Oct-1995) From: Robert Hoerner (2:2476/7) Hello Fredrik, this is a nice chat, isn't it :) Ok, let's remember: in an article some weeks ago you wrote that NC_ELECT, a so called policy addentum set in force by Z2C this year, could be a good example of how to implement some democracy in FidoNet. I answered that this NC_ELECT has not been set in force following the rules in P4, section 8, and therefore, from my point of view, it is nothing but a paper, at least it is no "democratic policy". You answered: "I'd like to point out that P4 section 8 describes how a new version of FidoNet policy is ratified. NC_ELECT however is no new FidoNet Policy proposal, it is simply a Zone policy document as mentioned in section 1 of FidoNet Policy4." This leads me to one little question: if policy 4, section 8, is NOT to be used when implementing a new (here of course: a new local) FidoNet Policy Document, which guideline has to be used instead? And another question arises from policy 4, section 2.2: "You must indicate that you have read, and agree to abide by, this document and all the current policies of FidoNet." "All the current policies"? Which policies could be meant? You continue: "FidoNet Policy 4 does in no way describe how these local policy documents are ratified, the only restriction is that they must have the approval of the IC if they contradict FidoNet Policy 4." So in your opinion everybody could present his ideas to the IC, asking him to "appove" it to be a new zone policy? And this is, in your eyes, only necessary if those ideas "contradict" P4? Come on, and you are talking about democracy? Democracy, Fredrik, FidoNews 12-45 Page: 3 06 Nov 1995 means (at least in my tired eyes it does mean) open discussion, secret voting and publishing of the results. Where has been the discussion? What could be changed? Secret voting? Who voted, and who made those people eligible to vote? Publishing of the results? You wrote: "NC_ELECT _was_ democratically approved, a vote was held among all Region Coordinators in Zone 2 and a majority voted to accept the document." I friendly invite you to prove it: When exactly has the voting been held? Who exactly participated in this voting? What exactly has been the result? And, last but in no way least: Based on which written rule (you may call it a "policy") has the voting been held? (this means: who has been eligible to vote, where has this been published, where and when has the election period and the name of the returning officer been published and who decided about all these rules based on wich rules?) I'd like to hear from you again, my best wishes Robert (2:2476/8) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Fidonews Information ======================================================================== FidoNews 12-45 Page: 4 06 Nov 1995 ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ---------------- Editors: Donald Tees, Sylvia Maxwell Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar Tom Jennings "FidoNews" BBS FidoNet 1:1/23 BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS) more addresses: Don -- 1:221/192, don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Sylvia- 1:221/194, max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Postal Service mailing address) FidoNews 128 Church St. Kitchener, Ontario Canada N2H 2S4 voice: (519) 570-3137 sylvia: (519) 579-8029 Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation of individual articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews. Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is Copyright 1995 Donald Tees. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or the eds. OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet. PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above paper-mail address. INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org, in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. Anyone interested in getting a copy of the INTERNET GATEWAY FAQ may freq GISFAQ.ZIP from 1:133/411.0, or send an internet message to fidofaq@gisatl.fidonet.org. No message or text or subject is necessary. The address is a keyword that will trigger the automated response. People wishing to send inquiries directly to David Deitch should now mail to fidonet@gisatl.fidonet.org rather than the previously listed address. FidoNews 12-45 Page: 5 06 Nov 1995 SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it. "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission. ' ' disgreement is actually necessary, or we'd all have to get in fights or semethin to amuse ourselves,, and create the requisite chaos." -Tom Jennings -- END -------------------------------------------------------------------