F I D O N E W S Volume 18, Number 01 1 Jan 2001
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| The newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: |
| FidoNet community | "FidoNews" |
| _ | 1-714-639-0377 1:1/23 |
| / \ | 1-714-532-1586 1:103/301 |
| /|oo \ | BinkD supported both above |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | |
| | | \ \\ | Editor: Warren Bonner |
| | (*) | \ )) | editor@fidonews.org |
| |__U__| / \// | wdbonner@pacbell.net |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
*+*+*+*+*+* HAPPY NEW YEAR EDITION *+*+*+*+*+*+*
Most prosperous year to ALL sysops in Fidoland!
Table of Contents
1. HEADLINE ................................................. 1
Happy New Year one and all !!! ........................... 1
2. CHAT WITH EDITOR ......................................... 2
3. GUEST EDITORIAL .......................................... 8
***WARD DOSSCHE INTERNATIONAL COORDINATOR*** ............. 8
4. LETTERS THAT CROSS THE EDITOR'S DESK ..................... 24
5. ARTICLES ................................................. 32
6. OL'WDB'S COLUMN .......................................... 39
-=+Ol'WDB's COLUMN+=- .................................... 39
7. FACTS IN HISTORY ......................................... 48
8. POET'S CORNER ............................................ 54
-=+++ Fido Poets Corner +++=- ............................ 54
9. HUMOR .................................................... 56
10. QUESTION OF THE WEEK .................................... 60
-=This weeks Question=- .................................. 60
11. ANSWERS OF THE WEEK ..................................... 61
12. NOTICES ................................................. 62
13. FIDONET BY INTERNET ..................................... 65
14. FIDONEWS INFORMATION .................................... 70
FIDONEWS INFORMATION ..................................... 70
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 1 1 Jan 2001
=================================================================
HEADLINE
=================================================================
***International Coordinator Threatens Node Removal from Nodelist***
Ok folks, first let me tell you to disregard repeated quoted text
and concentrate on WHO is commenting to WHOM as all opinions match.
Well almost.... Secondly, today Ward backed down and corrected the
nodelist error he had meddled in as International Coordinator. That
kinda short circuited this issue as it has been building for days.
Happy and prosperous New Year to ALL! Ed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 2 1 Jan 2001
=================================================================
CHAT WITH EDITOR
=================================================================
By: Bart Verhaeghe
To: All
Re: Ward Dossche The abuse Story.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear International Fidonet Sysop's. I am here to inform you of the
abuse of Ward Dossche. Just some time ago I was a downlink of Ward.
But the cable company was ready in Belgium so I took the cable and, I
asked Johan Zwiekhorst (RC29) if I could poll his system instead by
IP, That was fine for Johan and I informed Ward about my decision. But
this was not to the liking of for Ward so he tried to trick me. * Like
changing my password so I could not areafix to his system to
disconnect my echomail. * Second he refuses to change his route file
so the mail for me and my downlinks staid at his place instead of
going to Johan Zwiekhorst. * Third after having a big discussion in
natsysop.b he wanted to take me out of the nodelist. But in the end he
gave in...
Second chapter of this story: I have made friends outside Belgium like
in R28, Z3(WWB), Z1 (animenet). I like reading a lot of R28 mail and
such... So Mr. ward dossche was been pissed because I got r28 mail
from the Netherlands without the need of his "historical" import of
such (limited) mail.Again he is threatening me for removal from the
nodelist again. He says that there is a historical rule that say's
that the ic/zc2 has to take mail from the r28-bone. His whole mailer
system is "historic"...no %rescan; no Msgid and he still strips
seenbye's so his system lacks indeed dupe detection if there is
parallel import...Several people advised him to upgrade to something
better for mail-moving...he disregards everything except his own
view:(
Third Chapter of this story He made another people think I am a bad
person by saying in a R29 area (west-vlaams.reg) with another college
(Alfred Vossen) that he is not welcome because of his special
Limburger accent and that's not true. All the facts are provable on
netmail and echomail messages. Steven Leeman even wanted to write a
story about this sick joke...
So my dear fidonet sysop's I hope I've shed some more light on Ward
Dossche's abusive power as ic/zc2.
Groeten, Bart Verhaeghe Fidonet : 2:292/907 Web-Site :
http://tsohbbs.dyns.cx E-mail : the-sources-of-hell-bbs@yucom.be
Online Poll System : tsohbbs.dyn.dhs.org , BinkP
+32-(0)50/81.52.94 (2:292/907)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(19483) Mon 25 Dec 00 9:20p By: michael kleerbaum To: Ward Dosche Re:
Domains St:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Ward,
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 3 1 Jan 2001
Is it so, that -you have been acting as the International Coordinator-
everybody who reserved a domain name including "fido" will have to ask
you for permission, and will otherwise be removed from the nodelist?
Yes or no, please.
With one sentence: You just can't remove somebody from the nodelist
because he reserved a _national_ www domain faster than you, and even
less if he didn't have any opportunity to establish local
communication about the contents of the concerning site.
Michael
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Ross Cassell
To: Steven Leeman
Re: Your behaviour within Fidonet ...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Steven!
25 Dec 00 21:13, you wrote to me:
RC>> What demands were made to or of Steven?
SL> give up fido.be & fidonet.be
I suggest you not give them up, I'll give you a home in the nodelist
if that is what it takes.
Meanwhile Ward has set sail in his ship, let the winds blow him into
the whirlpool.
==
Ross
E-mail: rcassell@home.com ICQ = 5305939
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: "David Hallford" <hallford@thevision.net>
To: "Warren Bonner" <wdbonner@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Steven Leeman Node Number put on HOLD by Ward
Date: Sunday, December 24, 2000 9:59 PM
Hi Warren!
I agree with Joe Jared's well thought out response. The internet is
not part of Fidonet and should never be used for any punitive action
within Fidonet. Before I say anything deeper, I would like Ward to
have a chance to respond.
with warm regards, Dave
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ed:
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 4 1 Jan 2001
Dave, I couldn't agree more. When I received the Netmail from Steve
Leeman early morning on December 22. I at first couldn't believe I
was reading a plea to hopefully move the Snooze into battle position.
So I phoned Joe and told him to watch his incoming netmail, then I
listened to see if he got the same message I did, out of the broken
English, although the more times I read it the better I understood
Ward Dorsche acting God was removing his ability to receive or send
netmail.
Joe immediately replied that Ward could not do that by policy, and the
Domains owned by Steven were not any part of fido or policy. I said,
"you will as my NC pass this on to Brenda"? He said he would take care
of it. He did quite well directly to all parties. Same thing happened
to him with King Kohl a couple of years ago, so he had a mission.
Ol'wdb
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Steven Leeman
To: michael kleerbaum
Re: Your behaviour within Fidonet ...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello michael,
Monday December 25 2000 22:17, michael kleerbaum wrote to
Ross Cassell:
mk> I can't believe, that this can happen in FidoNet 2001... :((
mk> Ward Dosche, the Emperor of FidoNet?
SL> I even heard someone say "little ceasar" ? :-)
[Algemeen.b]
From : Dave Luyten 2:292/624.63 Mon 25 Dec 00 18:24
Ward> indeed, no discussions. You've received your extended netmail
Ward> <point>. Ter Attention of the innocent loser : dns.be is not a
Ward> player here, the case is handled within Fidonet. So if my
Ward> demands are fulfilled it'll be business-as-usual, if not I wish
Ward> the domain holder much pleasure without a nodenumber \x/@rd
At the moment that Ward Dossche (IC) deletes a nodenumber without a
complaint going thru the hierarchies, Ward Dossche (IC) shows
"excessively annoying behaviour". Excessive because Ward has done it
on purpose :-)
In which case it'll be possible to the ZC's to undo the decision on
this case (qualified majority). (what's always the case , but in this
case has the most probable solution) also Impeachment procedures will
be possible then
The simple case was that Ward Dossche (IC) in this case a direct
complaint to himself Ward Dossche (IC) but that Ward Dossche (IC)
this complaint had to disregard without any any prenotice. This is an
automatism because by my knowing there wasn't any complaint to begin
with at NC level. The NC that is the immediate higher in rank of
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 5 1 Jan 2001
Steven in the Fidonet Hierarchies. Further complaints on the decision
of the NC must be made by RC, ZC and IC in that order...
Neglecting the proper order is showing "annoying behaviour". So Steven
can draw charges against Ward Dossche (IC) by his NC. And that can
become even stranger if Ward Dossche (IC) has to defend himself at
NC-level. But that isn't the case...because Ward has operated in
function of IC...
And the problem that Ward Dossche (IC) raised didn't hold too much.
The having of domain names is to no matter for the working of Fidonet.
You have to prove that those domain names by Steven can be
"excessively annoying" to other nodes in the network what isn't the
case!
And having a DNS entry is to matter at all in Fidonet. Steven is not
"excessively annoying". The only rightful way to become owner of
fido.be & fidonet.be is via non-fido channels. Those that were
especially setupped for this matter. File a complaint at DNS...which
is already spoken for by Jan "IN MY HUMBLE OPINION" Have A
Nice Day Dave Luyten
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Jerry Schwartz
To: Dave Hamilton
Re: Ward Dossche
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, Dave...
Dec 25, 2000 at 14:19, Dave Hamilton wrote to Janis Kracht:
DH> Do you have an opinion of Ward Dossche's treatment of Steven
Leeman? Does the RCC have an opinion?
DH> I think it's obscene.
If things are as they were reported, I doubt you'll find many who
disagree with you.
I had severe misgivings about Ward. Despite all kinds of assurances
that he was really a nice guy, my long-distance opinion has always
been that he's a bit overwound. Nonetheless, I'd like to hear more
from other sources, if any exist. In particular, I'd like to hear from
Ward.
I don't think the "in your face" approach will work with him, in any
case; so I'd like to see this handled diplomatically.
Regards, Jerry mailto:jerryschwartz@comfortable.com
http://www.writebynight.com
--- Msged/NT TE 05 * Origin: Write by Night (1:142/928)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 6 1 Jan 2001
By: Peter Barandat
To: Ross Cassell
Re: Your behaviour within Fidonet ...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Ross,
On 25.12.00, 15:45:38 you've sent this message in outer space.
An alien retrieved it on Tuesday 26.12.00, 0:51:13, and replied to it.
*Establishing connection*
PB>> Steven has to proof that he owns the rights to buy those domains.
Now, I'm sure that even Ward doesn't own those rights, simply because
they don't existe, in Belgium. If Steven can't get his hands on the
rights before thursday he will be deleted from the nodelist.
RC> To which, WARD does not have this authority whatsoever.
Indeed :-(
Greets, Peter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Joe Jared
To: Peter Barandat
Re: Your behaviour within Fidonet ...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: No copyright should be inferred from any portion of the
embodiment of this message. This message is public domain, and all
rights have been granted to publish this document anywhere or
everywhere.
Hello Peter!
Monday December 25 2000 19:50, you wrote to Ross Cassell:
PB> Hello Ross,
PB> On 12/25/2000, 11:46:57 you've sent this message in outer space.
An alien retrieved it on Monday 12/25/2000, 19:28:04, and replied to
it.
PB> *Establishing connection*
PB> Translated it means: The node 2:292/624 is placed on hold (as of
PB> now) in the fidonet nodelist en will be removed during following
PB>>> week, together with all registrations of the same person. If
PB>>> the sysop does not comply with former demands. RC>> What demands
were made to or of Steven? PB> Steven has to proof that he owns the
rights to buy those domains. PB> Now, I'm sure that even Ward doesn't
own those rights, simply because PB> they don't existe, in Belgium. If
Steven can't get his hands on the PB> rights before thursday he will
be deleted from the nodelist.
JJ> Simply put, Steven does have the right. He has money, and has
purchased the domains. Ethically, I hope he does cooperate with the
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 7 1 Jan 2001
Zone, but nothing can be done within fidonet to force him. This point
needs to be clearly identified, and opposed. It's as simple as
Fidonet != Internet. For the c impaired, Fidonet <> internet. As for
the effect this will have, first off, without the *C of the effective
level's endorsement, the domain isn't official in my own list. Another
point. Fidonet cannot be copyrighted by any other entity than Tom
Jennings. If Ward would claim a copyright, my own argument would be
that if anything, it was already Public domain, and that by his own
reasoning in prior messages, he has no claim. You cannot post-mortem
copyright that which is in the public domain, and prior art, the
world's first fidonet nodelist, would be the prior art challenging the
claim of copyright.
Spilt milk. As a matter of precedent, fidonet.com is owned by someone
who is almost a non-entity. The attack at Steven is simply because he
is close to home for Ward.
PB> In my opinion, Ward doesn't want the proof of the registration of
fido. He wants those names to be erased from the dns-tables. But why
I ask? Steven is committed to make something beautiful of those
domains. Ward hasn't got the registrations, so he can't register the
domains... (otherwise he has to place his own pc on hold, to be
removed within a week.... =) So? What will he say if some dog food
company registers the fido.be ?? Now a fido member has this domain...
Ward should be proud!!
When Ward asked me why I contacted Janis on this issue, the reasoning
was simple. The ZCC (The 5 remaining ZC's excluding the ZC who is
IC), can overturn his ruling. I don't see this situation as a
resolvable one, but rather a ZCC will need to intervene on principles.
It is however up to Mr. Leeman to appeal the IC Decision to the ZCC.
Given that the ZC is also IC, he only gets one shot at this, so I'm
hoping that the ZCC will act in fairness, or that Ward as IC will
rescind his ruling. The positions of *C above NC are typically of
appeal, not action. It would serve Ward well to back down from his
current course of action, but I doubt he will. As such, many of us
have asked our own ZC as a member of the ZCC to rescind Ward's
decision for him. Hopefully, the other ZC's will act in kind.
NC 1:103 joejared@osirusoft.com
--- GoldED/W32 3.0.1 * Origin: telnet://telnet.osirusoft.com
(1:103/301)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 8 1 Jan 2001
=================================================================
GUEST EDITORIAL
=================================================================
A Sysops Plea for help
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Ward Dossche
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:23:31 +0100
From: "Leeman, Steven" <steven@hotrate.com>
To: editor@fidonews.org
what happened in Z2 last month? (eg I'm not good at articles...so this
is just to inform you...do with it as you please) *****Note: Some
words and spelling corrected, but little as possible. ED.
A few weeks ago the .BE internet domain was to be liberalized; eg you
didn't have to be a company or institute in order to get a .be domain
name... So as a fidonetter avant la letter, I immediately started, ask
some of my friends, to buy domain names... It was a success in
Belgium... the dns.be crashed on the first day under the tons of
requests :-)
A few weeks later...Ward Dossche gets xDSL and suddenly checks at
dns.be who had tool fido.be (eg my instinct says : 18hours before he
found out I had send a routed messages to an R29 sysop called Pablo
Saratxaga who is very familiar with fido.belg.* and
z2.mail.fidonet.org MX record keeping if he could send
f624.n292.z2.fidonet.org to my fido.be or fidonet.be account)...I and
some other sysops have always been very suspicious about his "inside"
information...it's all too obvious.... he's also against sysops
connecting to other sysops although I believed fidonet policy permits
it you may lay connections to other sysops...(as long as it's for your
netmail only) eg it's thesame like "crashing" to them... but you lay
it out as a standard in your routing/tosser ... why redirect it
through 6 nodes up till IC level when you connect every damn minute to
that other sysop's system... in the WWB Ward has already received 0 on
his request to stop this charade... he wants to have total control on
fidonet...
so Ward didn't file complaint or inform me by crashed netmail.... nope
he just emailed it to me at 18h09... to put it with his own words
(rough translation) "I'm no sysop that'll stick at the screen reading
mail all day until my tongue will fall of" - or something... a R28
sysop can confirm that message... :-)
It's also the same Ward Dossche that removed any trademark/copyright
marks from the nodelist and it's decision was widespread in fidonews
(1997) about that Fido/fidonet and Dog with diskette were no
trademarks outside Zone 1... Today he shouts that he is not alone a
Coordinator Fidonet-Belgium... HE IS THE *IC* (I can send his emails
if you'd like... Fidopolicy doesn't handle those does it? :-) and that
it's HIS domain name and I should give those domain names to him
within 2 hours of his 1st email...
he never responded to my netmails... but he states he received my
netmail in an email with the last nodediff where i've been put on
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 9 1 Jan 2001
hold...this morning... he has also tried to block my domain names
(fido.be and fidonet.be) at my registrar...which obviously refused...
he's got a 24 page manual with smallwrite which doesn't give any
rights to an IC of "fidonet"-WHAT? which doesn't have any jurisdiction
affiliations in this country... (10 years ago Ward Dossche had one
Bnet.vzw but ... it died...) so Ward Dossche had 10 years the time to
get the .BE domain using his affiliation...
but now a 3rd party has taken it...his worst enemy...it's my fault...?
Even the belgian government has the same problem... www.belgie.be
turned into DUTCH (The Netherlands) hands... a big "joke" in the
Belgian Internet World
...
I'd like your input about this subject... should I ask "asylum" in Z1
or other zones to get relisted? my points & downlinks won't just
switch over because of this (one of many) Ward Dosschian fights...
the Dns.be liberalization slogan was "First Come First Serve" where
the rule was : you didn't had to have any affiliations any more... you
could register www.water.be without getting a lawyer of some
Water(H20) company on your head...
Greetz, Steven Leeman (2:292/624) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Steven Leeman To: editor@fidonews.org Re: <EXCOMMUNICATION> -Ed
=====================================================================
* Forwarded by Steven Leeman (2:292/624) * Area : FN_SYSOP
([INTERBBS]) * From : Steven Leeman, 2:292/624 (Monday December 25
2000 01:21) * To : All * Subj : :-)
=====================================================================
Hello All, does anyone still remember this fidonews article of Ward
Dossche? hence why am I posting this?
A few weeks ago the .BE internet domain name was liberalized...eg you
didn't had to have a company in order to registrar your own
domain...you could take www.yahoo.be if you wanted to have it :-)
so I took also a few...eg www.fido.be , www.fidonet.be
a few weeks later I get a nice email(multiple) from Ward Dossche (he
doesn't like netmails anymore?) stating he is copyright holder and
such of those names and asked me to dismiss ownership of those .be
domain names...
I send his own article to him by netmail...
Now instead of his threats to start a DNS-complaint...he uses another
card of his sleeve... <activate childish tone> "Although I'm not a
Belgian Fido Coordinator...I AM THE INTERNATIONAL FIDO COORDINATOR
<POINT>... Now free these domain names or you'll be removed from the
nodelist...I'll await your answer in 2 hours"... the next day I was
put on "hold" in the nodelist... next thursday I should be out of the
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 10 1 Jan 2001
Z2 nodelist as well...unless I free them up "I don't need a
/polemique/" he said as last... sure every /master/ likes a slave that
doesn't object to it's commands...
He has spammed al my downlinks and points to inform them they should
look for another uplink... they all ignored his netmail...even started
a polemique on their own...
it's not the first time Ward Dossche misuses his Nodelist-keeper
power... eg he has already blackmailed moderators in the idle hope of
getting moderatorship of that echo... he quotes Echopol nicely but if
himself stands above it... no rules of his echo's; no listening to the
rules of other echo's...; [....]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mon 31 Mar 97 9:27 By: Ward Dossche To: David Moufarrege Re: Re:
Copyright Notice
=====================================================================
Hello David,
> What is the background of your dropping the Copyright Notice of the
> Z2-Nodelist?
Some time ago a person wanted to write non-commercially something
somewhere about Fido and kinda liked the art-work on the dog with the
diskette. (name of the person escapes me, but I seem to recall a
similar incident connected to the last Eurocon) So, truthfully
believing Tom Jennings holds a trademark on this (as was mentioned in
the nodelist and still is in Fidonews) he asks permission to use it,
which Tom flatly refused.
As I found this rather a strange reaction, out of curiosity I asked
some of our corporate lawyers to look into the copyright- and
trademark-issue of "Fido", "Fidonet" and the artwork of the dog-with-
diskette. (FYI, I'm Deputy-Director at the Belgian telco, employing
some 27,000 staff and we have acorporate-law- division who does
nothing else than copyright and trademark stuff)
As I so suspected for a long time, I received confirmation after
researching relevant trademark-bureaus that no references to the above
nor any trademark held by a Jennings Tom or Tom Jennings relating to
Fidonet or something similarly sounding exists.
Mark my words ... this covers the whole of Europe (east and west)
including Israel and Turkey. It says nothing about the USA.
We discovered however expired Fidonet-trademarks in the name of other
individuals residing in Europe.
A quick search was done for Japan (where ZC/6 resides) without any TJ-
trademark. Same thing in Argentina (homebase of ZC/4) where TJ holds
no rights but where, very puculiarly, another trademark called "Latin
Fido" is held by a local sysop (this is also reflected in the Z4-
nodelist).
So let me summarize :
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 11 1 Jan 2001
There is _NO_ existing trademark in Europe in the name of Tom Jennings
nor Jennings Tom for "Fido", "Fidonet" nor the "dog-with-diskette"-
artwork.
Then why write it in the nodelist? I don't see one single reason.
Now let's not confuse "trademark" with "copyright".
If TJ wants to have a trademark on all those items then as far as I'm
concerned he can have it ... which means he must have his brand-names
registered in each and every country - for zone-2 this means 35-
countries to be precise - and agree to pay the periodical hefty sum on
that. (worldwide 190+ ?)
This he has never done, nor will he do it, nor will anyone else
because it is just too expensive. "Control" over the nodelist can
never warrant such a high price nor can anyone ever expect a return on
that investment.
If anyone ever has any bright idea here to register the trademarks to
either "control" or "financially exploit" then I hereby post a claim
to be first in line to laugh that person straight in his/her face.
Less than a year ago there was the case of a company registering a
trademark on the wording "world wide web" and "www", which mind you
are nowhere legally protected. After initial astonishment by the
internet-community the "owners" were quickly reduced to the laughing
stock even while they followed correct legal procedures. They tried to
exercise a claim and finally gave up because it was reasonably
un-enforceable.
With Fidonet it is exactly the same thing.
Now one final word about "copyright". TJ does not participate in any
way in the production of any of the nodelists nor any of the segments
that comprise the nodelist. Hence there is not one square inch of
legal ground for him to claim copyright over it.
The NC's could have a copyright over net-segments, the RC's over
region- segments and the ZC's over zone-segments. Since the ZC's also
produce nodelists they could imo also post a copyright-notice for
their version of the nodelist although I think all these notices carry
little weight and are of little to no importance.
Anyone in zone-2 having problems with the nodelist without a
TJ-copyright/ trademark notification can always freq at this node the
elements it takes to produce their own nodelist.
Every current zone-2 region-segment can be freqqed here with the
magic-name REGIONxx where xx = region number.
On top of that every zone-segment can be freqqed here following the
same logic : ZONEy where y = zonenumber.
It enables everyone who wants that to build his/her own customized
nodelist.
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 12 1 Jan 2001
If a person e.g. only wants R24, R50 and Z3, then he/she freqs
REGION24, REGION50, ZONE3 and gives that to his/her nodelist-compiler.
How's that for openness, availability, service, whatever you wanna
call it?
If they want to include the original notice they can equally freq "TJ"
here so that bit of information is accessible as well although it
makes no difference.
As a sidenote, I already received threats for a court-case by one
Randy Bush, the same person when slamming the Fido-door shut behind
him stated it was nothing else but a litter-box reeking of cat-piss. I
understand some valid concerns about intentions and motives, but I do
have a more than full-time and well payed job so I don't need to try
to squeeze some extra pennies (at what cost?) out of some peoples
pockets. I believe it would be very difficult, if not impossible, for
any individual to grab control of the nodelist and make a buck out of
it.
If that happens then it is because the sysops allow it to happen,
personally I would just totally ignore such a person.
There's a lesson to be learned from our German friends who would never
take any shit like that. This they proved after some "grab control"-
exercises there.
I'm more worried about the censoring of Fidonews-worldwide by a ZC
which recently occurred and nobody reacted upon it. Weren't you aware?
Thanks for writing. If there's more you want to ask, please do.
Take care, \x/ard Dossche
ZC/2
Netmail (2:292/624.1) NETMAIL
Msg : 755 of 768 Pvt K/s Trs A/s
From : Ward Dossche 2:292/854 Fri 22 Dec 00 10:48
To : point 2:292/624.1 Fri 22 Dec 00 11:03
Subj : Status van de 2:292/624-node in Fidonet
De sysop van 2:292/624 (jullie boss) heeft eenzijdig, zonder overleg
en zonder enig akkoord van de copyright houder en/of zijn
gemandateerde
bij DNS.BE de domeinen "fidonet.be" en "fido.be" gereserveerd.
Dergelijk usurperend gedrag wordt in een Fidonetomgeving niet
getollereerd.
De sysop in kwestie werd om uitleg gevraagd met inbegrip van aan te
tonen dat hij de benodigde toelatingen heeft. Bij uitblijven van deze
bewijsvoering wordthem vanuit de Fidonet hierarchie opgelegd dat de
domeinen "fidonet.be" en "fido.be" opgegeven worden. De termijn voor
hem om hierop bevredigend te reageren werd op 1 week gesteld.
(deadline donderdag 28 december om 23h55 lokale tijd)
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 13 1 Jan 2001
Totnutoe kwam daar geen bevredigend antwoord op.
Het nodenummer 2:292/624 werdt met onmiddellijke ingang op "Hold"
geplaatst in de fidonet nodelist en zal volgende week verwijderd
worden, samen met alle andere inschrivingen van dezelfde persoon,
indien de sysop zich niet naar het bovenvermelde directief richt.
..
Voor jullie creeert het de bijkomende moeilijkheid dat de pointaccess
wegvalt. Om die te behouden en verder in Fidonet aktief te blijven
zijn er 3 scenario's:
1) Jullie moedigen de sysop van 2:292/624, Steven Leeman, aan om zich
bij de gestelde richtlijnen neer te leggen. Wanneer het bewijs
geleverd werd dat de domeinen 'fidonet.be' en 'fido.be' daadwerkelijk
verwijderd werden uit de dns-tabellen blijft alles bij het oude; 2)
Jullie zoeken een andere sysop. Dit kan heel gemakkelijk gebeuren via
de nodelist; 3) Jullie vragen node-status aan via een hub en worden
volwaardige node binnen Fidonet.
Mogelijke hubs zijn:
* 2:292/100 (hub10010) Johan Zwiekhorst - Hasselt * 2:292/401
(hub10040) Freddy Verrezen - Mol * 2:292/706 (hub10070) Gilbert
Doyen - Brussel * 2:292/865 (hub10081) Luc Sienaert - Mortsel
* 2:292/854 (hub10084) Ward Dossche - Mortsel * 2:292/2009
(hub10200) Eric Vaneberck - Jodoigne * 2:292/4005 (hub10400) Yves
Hennico - Montzen
Ik hoop dat het allemaal zo geen vaart zal lopen maar indien de sysop
van 2:292/624, Steven Leeman, niet inbindt en niet ingaat op de
gestelde eisen zal bovengenoemd scenario onveranderd uitgevoerd
worden.
Ter info, ik ga hierover met niemand een polemiek voeren, de kaarten
liggen zoals ze liggen.
Met vriendelijke groeten,
\x/@rd Dossche Fidonet International Coordinator
Netmail (2:292/624.1) NETMAIL
Msg : 754 of 768 Pvt K/s Trs A/s
From : Ward Dossche 2:292/854 Fri 22 Dec 00 10:28
To : Steven Leeman 2:292/626 Fri 22 Dec 00 11:03
Subj : De toestand van 2:292/624 en 2:292/626
CC: Eddy Missoul, Eddy Missoul, Tom Gay, Jacek Pielesz
CC: Tom Laermans, Davy Verhaeghen
Heren,
De sysop van 2:292/624 en 2:292/626 heeft eenzijdig, zonder overleg en
zonder enig akkoord van de coyrighthouder en/of zijn gemandateerde bij
DNS.BE de domeinen "fidonet.be" en "fido.be" gereserveerd.
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 14 1 Jan 2001
Dergelijk usurperend gedrag wordt in een Fidonetomgeving niet
getollereerd.
De sysop in kwestie werd om uitleg gevraagd met inbegrip van aan te
tonen dat hij de benodigde toelatingen heeft. Bij uitblijven van deze
bewijsvoering wordtopgelegd dat de domeinen "fidonet.be" en "fido.be"
opgegeven worden. De termijn om hierop bevredigend te reageren werd op
1 week gesteld.
Totnutoe kwam daar geen bevredigend antwoord op.
De nodenummers 2:292/624 en 2:292/626 werden met onmiddellijke ingang
op "Hold"geplaatst en zullen volgende week verwijderd worden indien
hun sysop zich niet naar de bovenvermelde directief richt.
Gezien die sysop ineens ook de hub 2:292/10060 uitbaat waaronder
jullie resideren zal ook deze hub uit de nodelist verwijderd worden.
Voor jullie continuiteit binnen Fidonet wordt dan ook aangeraden om zo
snel mogelijk met een andere hub contacten te leggen opdat dit in de
nodelist zou weerspiegelen.
De andere mogelijke hubs in R29 zijn:
* 2:292/100 (hub10010) Johan Zwiekhorst - Hasselt * 2:292/401
(hub10040) Freddy Verrezen - Mol * 2:292/706 (hub10070) Gilbert
Doyen - Brussel * 2:292/865 (hub10081) Luc Sienaert - Mortsel
* 2:292/854 (hub10084) Ward Dossche - Mortsel * 2:292/2009
(hub10200) Eric Vaneberck - Jodoigne * 2:292/4005 (hub10400) Yves
Hennico - Montzen
Indien er kandidaten zijn om de hub-functie waar te nemen dan kan
NC292 steeds beslissen om in de zone-16 een nieuwe hub te creeren
waarnaar jullie je dan ookkunnen richten.
Ik hoop dat het allemaal zo geen vaart zal lopen maar indien de sysop
van 2:292/624 aka 2:292/626, Steven Leeman, niet inbindt en niet
ingaat op de gestelde eisen zal bovengenoemd scenario onveranderd
uitgevoerd worden.
Ter info, ik ga hierover met niemand een polemiek voeren, de kaarten
liggen zoals ze liggen.
Met vriendelijke groeten,
\x/@rd Dossche Fidonet International Coordinator
-----------8< dns.txt ---------------------
o Steven Leeman,
)/\,[_) Sysop SkyNET Bbs
`T7 ]=[ http://welcome.to/skynetbbs (Dutch/English)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Ward Dossche
To: Steven Leeman
Re: Your behaviour within Fidonet ...
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 15 1 Jan 2001
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Steven,
SL> a few weeks later I get a nice email(multiple) from Ward Dossche
(he doesn't like netmails anymore?) stating he is copyright holder and
such of those names ...
WD> You certainly have no problem in telling lies, do you? I wish to
draw the attention of the active audience here to the fact that you,
mr.Leeman, a few weeks ago intended to post an article in the Snooze
litterally claiming that I was a racist ... in those exact words.
WD> Since Belgium has very severe anti-Racism-laws I felt very
strongly about that too and I still thank the person who scooped-up
the article prior to publication because I could have been in a pretty
nasty position owing to you.
Another of your lies, mr. Leeman.
SL> next thursday I should be out of the Z2 nodelist as well...unless
I free them up "I don't need a /polemique/" he said as last...
WD> That is absolutely correct and I wish to add that your RC, RC29
who comes highly respected throughout the Fidonet community (he was
one of the very first in zone-2 many years ago), concurs that the
proposals which have been made to you are consistent with your
behaviour and attitude.
SL> He has spammed al my downlinks and points to inform them they
should look for another uplink...
WD> All your downlinks and points received a very balanced and neutral
communication explaining their situation. That was necessary since you
manipulated the situation by telling them you were out already, hence
they panicked.
Indeed, you have no problem in telling lies.
Have a nice day and Merry Christmas anyway.
\x/@rd
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: Holding nodes for reasons outside of fidonet
Dear Joe,
Thank you for offering your opinion.
Although my interference in zone-1 matters has been sollicited many
times I have always elected to stay out of it. My advice to anyone
being confronted with such a dillema is to act likewise since it is
quite impossible to have the correct information.
Nevertheless you have been quick to pass judgement based on "what"?
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 16 1 Jan 2001
There is an unresolved issue in zone2/R29. Steven Leeman has been
briefed on the content of this issue and how to resolve it. It's his
call.
You will notice that I have left the cc's out. In this moment I don't
believe it is productive and I would appreciate the same thing from
everyone I talk with. It has been source for misquoting, qouting
out-of-context, lies, inaccuracies which start leading their own life.
This is happening exactly now too.
You've made a few interesting suggestions to Steven, others have as
well. Maybe he'll listen to them and act accordingly but I can't force
him. I'll definitely not crumble under a mail-wall as he's trying to
provoke right now.
You need to explain me why you suggest to bring Janis Kracht on board
and talk about overruling. There is nothing to be overruled and the
worst thing I could do is to start ruling on zone-1 matters, so
likewise ....
This matter eventually will resolve itself, but not under a
mail-campaign. I've been executive drector at Greenpeace, I know the
force of mail-bombing-runs and I know how to resist them.
Don't take this as a personal comment, it isn't. Exactly because I
hold you in high esteem from other conferences it is that I'm writing
this +/- extended reply since my official position is that I am not
getting into polemics. For you there's an exeption to that rule.
Nevertheless, have a Merry Christmas,
Ward
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Jared <joejared@osirusoft.com>
To: Ward Dossche <wd@skynet.be>
Cc: editor@fidonews.org <editor@fidonews.org>;
steven@hotrate.com <steven@hotrate.com>;
steven_leeman@hotmail.com <steven_leeman@hotmail.com>
Date: Sunday,
December 24, 2000 22:42 Subject: Holding nodes for reasons outside of
fidonet
Ward:
I just received email regarding an individual who claims his node has
been put on hold by you. Assuming it is legitimate, then my belief is
that it was done outside the scope of policy and should be rescinded.
As a victim of loss of an expired domain and the apparent theft
thereof, I can empathize with your position, but respectfully disagree
with your actions of holding a node hostage. Fidonet has nothing to
do with the internet, and unless fido has been internationally
trademarked, no illegal activity has occurred, and no excessively
annoying behavior can be assumed. Therefore, I must ask that you
rescind your hold status for Steven, and return the node to good
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 17 1 Jan 2001
standing. We cannot arbitrarily make rules that effectively cause
excommunication, nor can we reasonably assume that any position of *C
has the right to make rules based on events outside the scope of
fidonet. What you're allegedly doing clearly steps beyond the realm
of fidonet.
As an outsider, my own inclination would be to go through the
channels, and petition that Janis, our new Z1C, vote to overturn your
position, assuming this situation does not resolve itself.
Steven: In the states, no single entity owns more than one fidonet
related domain, although it's not restricted. Given that you
apparently own a good portion of the fido*.be domains, you've
effectively established a monopoly on the name. It would be more than
reasonable to respond positively with redelegating some of the domains
to others with polite requests. Granted, these domains are yours
until they expire, and I'm quite sure that as an interim measure that
Z2.fidonet.org could be allocated to the official Zone 2 web site, as
mandated by either the Z2C or the IC should such a request not be met
with acceptance on your side. Given that fido.be appears to be a
blank page, I personally don't see why said domain would be held
hostage by you any more than Ward would hold your fidonet address
hostage.
http://relays.osirusoft.com
http://www.osirusoft.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: "Joe Jared" <joejared@osirusoft.com>
To: "Ward Dossche" <wd@skynet.be>
Cc: <z1c@osirusoft.com>; "Brenda Donovan" <donovan@tnl-online.net>
Subject: Re: Holding nodes for reasons outside of fidonet
Date: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 2:42 AM
Ward Dossche wrote:
Dear Joe,
Thank you for offering your opinion.
Although my interference in zone-1 matters has been sollicited many
times I have always elected to stay out of it. My advice to anyone
being confronted with such a dillema is to act likewise since it is
quite impossible to have the correct information.
--------------------------
JJ> I've been here before. Note that I've included an alias for our
ZC's email, as well as my RC. This issue needs resolution, and
neither I nor the cc's are willing to let you blackmail our zone.
WD> Nevertheless you have been quick to pass judgement based on
"what"?
JJ> Based on the facts.
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 18 1 Jan 2001
WD> There is an unresolved issue in zone2/R29. Steven Leeman has been
briefed on the content of this issue and how to resolve it. It's his
call.
JJ> He has been briefed. I believe what you wrote on the topic.
Understand, that in our region we had to deal with a tyrant. Note
that Bob Kohl is no longer RC10.
WD> You will notice that I have left the cc's out. In this moment I
don't believe it is productive and I would appreciate the same thing
from everyone I talk with. It has been source for misquoting, qouting
out-of-context, lies, inaccuracies which start leading their own life.
This is happening exactly now too.
JJ> I don't believe in mushrooms. Only the interested parties are
notified. Brenda as RC, and Janis, our ZC elect are cc'd because they
are interested parties. Warren as Fidonews editor has his hands full
and I'm sure he'll quote relevant articles on his own for this
particular topic. I doubt seriously that the next issue of fidonews
will be a small one.
WD> You've made a few interesting suggestions to Steven, others have
as well. Maybe he'll listen to them and act accordingly but I can't
force him. I'll definitely not crumble under a mail-wall as he's
trying to provoke right now.
JJ> They were suggestions only. Obviously, if you don't endorse a
zone level site, it won't get listed in my column of fidonews.
Neither of us have authority over the .be zone, nor should we.
WD> You need to explain me why you suggest to bring Janis Kracht on
board and talk about overruling. There is nothing to be overruled and
the worst thing I could do is to start ruling on zone-1 matters, so
likewise ....
JJ> She is the next and only remaining level of appeal. Should it
ever get to a ZCC decision, it is my hope that not only does your
decision get overturned, but you get impeached in the process. As
near as I can tell, the former is 1 vote away. You still have time to
change your course of action.
WD> This matter eventually will resolve itself, but not under a
mail-campaign. I've been executive director at Greenpeace, I know the
force of mail-bombing-runs and I know how to resist them.
JJ> This matter could resolve itself if you rescind your ruling on the
matter. Anything less _will_ result in your impeachment.
WD> Don't take this as a personal comment, it isn't. Exactly because I
hold you in high esteem from other conferences it is that I'm writing
this +/- extended reply since my official position is that I am not
getting into poletics. For you there's an exeption to that rule.
JJ> Thank you. However, the veiled threats in your response have been
ignored as such.
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 19 1 Jan 2001
WD> Nevertheless, have a Merry Christmas,
WD> Ward
JJ>Thanks. And in the spirit of the moment, I wish the same to you.
Did you hear the sincerity of the words? Whoops, that makes one of
us. What you're doing is wrong. I can't find any other words that
aren't inflammatory to such a degree that you find yourself any less
alienated, nor can I express the gravity of your actions as IC with
any other words. If you become enraged with my response, perhaps
recognizing what is wrong with your decisions will redirect you as one
of fidonet's leaders will be the greater result.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Jared <joejared@osirusoft.com>
To: Ward Dossche <wd@skynet.be>
Cc: editor@fidonews.org <editor@fidonews.org>;
steven@hotrate.com <steven@hotrate.com>;
steven_leeman@hotmail.com <steven_leeman@hotmail.com>
Date: Sunday, December 24, 2000 22:42
Subject: Holding nodes for reasons outside of fidonet
JJ> Ward, I just received email regarding an individual who claims his
node has been put on hold by you. Assuming it is legitimate, then my
belief is that it was done outside the scope of policy and should be
rescinded.
JJ> As a victim of loss of an expired domain and the apparent theft
thereof, I can empathize with your position, but respectfully disagree
with your actions of holding a node hostage. Fidonet has nothing to
do with the internet, and unless fido has been internationally
trademarked, no illegal activity has occurred, and no excessively
annoying behavior can be assumed. Therefore, I must ask that you
rescind your hold status for Steven, and return the node to good
standing. We cannot arbitrarily make rules that effectively cause
excommunication, nor can we reasonably assume that any position of *C
has the right to make rules based on events outside the scope of
fidonet. What you're allegedly doing clearly steps beyond the realm
of fidonet.
JJ> As an outsider, my own inclination would be to go through the
channels, and petition that Janis, our new Z1C, vote to overturn your
position, assuming this situation does not resolve itself.
JJ> Steven, In the states, no single entity owns more than one fidonet
related domain, although it's not restricted. Given that you
apparently own a good portion of the fido*.be domains, you've
effectively established a monopoly on the name. It would be more than
reasonable to respond positively with redelegating some of the domains
to others with polite requests. Granted, these domains are yours
until they expire, and I'm quite sure that as an interim measure that
Z2.fidonet.org could be allocated to the official Zone 2 web site, as
mandated by either the Z2C or the IC should such a request not be met
with acceptance on your side. Given that fido.be appears to be a
blank page, I personally don't see why said domain would be held
hostage by you any more than Ward would hold your fidonet address
hostage.
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 20 1 Jan 2001
http://relays.osirusoft.com
http://www.osirusoft.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Dallas Hinton
To: Dave Hamilton
Re: Ward Dossche
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Dave -- on Dec 25 2000 at 14:19, you wrote:
DH> Do you have an opinion of Ward Dossche's treatment of Steven
Leeman? Does the RCC have an opinion?
DH> I think it's obscene.
I hate to say this, Dave -- but:
I told you so. :-(
Cheers... Dallas
By: brenda donovan To: all Re: The IC's latest rhubarb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Things did not settle down much before a new ruckus has arisen.
Ward Dossche, acting as IC, has threatened a zone 2 node with
excommunication for registering fido.be and fidonet.be. In his message
to Steven Leeman, he used the IC title. It's sometimes tough to
separate hats, but the messages do say IC (not Z2C).
This is a gross abuse of position and is not condoned by anyone.
Foremost, since registering domain names is not within the scope of
fidonet.
Check out Z1C and FIDONEWS echos for more info.
I would be happy to give any threatened node a home in the nodelist
until things can be worked out.
There is never any excuse for this kind of behavior. There is a lot of
talk about it and we are all waiting to hear what Mr. Dossche has to
say for himself.
Personally, I think he's dug himself a hole that will be hard to get
out of, but we shall see.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: brenda donovan
To: Frank Vest
Re: Ward Dossche
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 21 1 Jan 2001
FV> If it is true. I'm not discounting anyone's belief nor arguing in
favor of anyone. I'm just stating that when I looked at the Nodelist,
Steve Leeman is still listed and not on "Hold" or any other status. He
is listed as a full Node.
FV> Of course, on the other side of the coin is... The Nodelist of Z1
might not have the updates of Z2 in it yet. I don't know how accurate
this might be, but inaccuracy is a possibility.
FV> A threat ignored by the threatened party and not acted upon by the
threatening party is just a threat, over? :-)
BD> It is unacceptable behavior in any *C. As IC, he can bluster. But
he is Z2C and does have an editor and does compile the zone 2 segment.
BD> Perceived power abuse is still abusive behavior.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Carl Austin Bennett
To: Janis Kracht
Re: Ward Dossche
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DH> Do you have an opinion of Ward Dossche's treatment of Steven
Leeman?
JK> Yes, I do. Steven contacted me on the 22nd of December about
this. I gave him some ideas that he might present to Ward to try to
make things work out but I did not hear anything from Steven after
that. If Ward does remove Steven from the nodelist, or puts his
listing on hold over this I definitely feel it is very wrong.
CB> Would you have any objection to him being nodelisted in our zone
should it become necessary due to Ward's actions?
JK> Yes, I personally agree that removing Steven would be very wrong.
CB> What's our next step at this point?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Carol Shenkenberger
To: Bart Verhaeghe
Re: Re: Ward Dossche The abuse Story.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bart, under P4, a ZC is appointed by the RC's and can be removed the
same way.
I do not know if the problems arejust relatedto Belgium. I'm listening
and seeing what Ward has to say, but as an outsider I cant do much.
On the IC position, if the ZC's vote him out, he will no longer be IC.
In Z1, a big storm is slowly brewing over this. I seriouly doubt if
any RC's in Z1 will refuse to list any Z2 site who is under threat of
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 22 1 Jan 2001
their nodelist entry, until all is resolved. Ross has already made
moves to list Steven Leeman I gather from the notes here. If you need
a listing, lets split the forces and list you with one of the others?
I have several nets who would be delighted I am sure, to have a few
good nodes as long as they can establish a path to netmail them <g>.
Check your email <G>. xxcarol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Carol Shenkenberger
To: Carl Austin Bennett
Re: Re: Ward Dossche
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*** Quoting Carl Austin Bennett from a message to Janis Kracht ***
CAB> Yes, I personally agree that removing Steven would be very wrong.
CAB> What's our next step at this point?
My *personal* stance is that I'll take the next one who needs refugee
status, and hope the 3rd (or more if needed) all list in different
regions here. Spread the targets and Ward cant do much if anything.
This allows *time* to get to the root of the problem more properly for
those sysops who are in an apparent bind.
These listings would be temporary to keep the nodes functional, until
it can be figured out. A few weeks is my guess?
I don't know about you, but I lack a firm grasp of Z2 politics.
I am also aware that the IC will probably go 'after' those of us who
do this. That said, how bold are you? Will R12C host a lostling if
needed for a time to prevent loss of a sysop til it's all figured out?
Guess I better have a long chat with Janis <G>.
xxcarol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Dale Shipp
To: Brenda Donovan
Re: Re: Ward Dossche
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-=> On 12-25-00 15:11, Brenda Donovan <=-
-=> spoke to Dave Hamilton about Ward Dossche <=-
DH> Do you have an opinion of Ward Dossche's treatment of Steven
Leeman? Does the RCC have an opinion? I think it's obscene.
BD> It is definitely abuse of power.
DS> But typical of his royal highness and the way he has acted over
the past couple of years. I am not surprised in the least. Shocked,
horrified, but not surprised.
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 23 1 Jan 2001
dale (at) min (dot) net
(1:261/1466)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 24 1 Jan 2001
=================================================================
LETTERS THAT CROSS THE EDITOR'S DESK
=================================================================
by: Ward Dossche
To: Warren Bonner
Re: Re: Your behaviour within Fidonet ...
St: Rcvd
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Warren,
WB> You must consider carefully your words so as not to be deemed
WB> tyrannical by using your nodelisting authority as a tool to
WB> accomplish a non fidonet action.
There can be debate about that (and it's not even the right conference
to do this here but, heck, it's going to be another couple of days
before the "IC"- conference will be all over the place, so ...).
How to interpret this Policy-article?
************************* QUOTE *************************
7.1 General
...
The International Coordinator is responsible ... for negotiation of
agreements for communication with other networks.
************************ UNQUOTE ************************
Is the internet another network? "Yes, it is" ... which means it is
IC-stuff although the writers of P4 never had that in mind (same as a
bunch of other things).
If I need to state an official position then it is that all sysops who
maintain Fidonet-related internet-domains which are utilized to
further the aim of Fidonet are strongly encouraged to continue doing
so.
It implies that if such domains are spotted which are not used in that
sense action is required. An item to be taken on board in a
policy-review?
WD> I suggest you openly restore S.L,'s node, ...
Not just like that ... a proposal was submitted by myself which, if
accepted, would prompt me into restoring the node numbers to their
former status. I have received confirmation by e-mail that there's a
high probability this acceptance will happen in which case I will hold
my part of the bargain. The "deal" is about ensuring that the
affected-domains indeed will be used to the best interest of fidonet.
WD> Offer to reimburse him for his costs in securing the fido,
fidonet (Ic/Z2).be you are rightfully entitled to by your fidonet
titles. <Editor note: I meant if he applied for that domain name.>
WD> I am unaware of such a domain nor do I feel the need for it.
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 25 1 Jan 2001
WB> He is not obligated to GIVE you on DEMAND anything he owns outside
of his nodelisted fido address. An apology for (in effect),
removing him may soften the heart with an offer of reimbursement of
his costs which you would have to pay had you listed the
fidoIc/Z2.be in the first place. (JMHO)
WD> As I said, P4.7.1.2 opens a path for creative thinking on
"obliged" (!!) or not. Definitely there will be no apology as I see no
need for anything of that kind nor any reimbursement for something not
requested, demanded, asked nor discussed.
WD> The thought that this gave me is that I am frighteningly powerfull
in a Fidonet-context. I can flick the big-finger to anyone without
being sanctionned ... the thought never occurred to me until now.
WD> To be removed as a ZC a referendum needs to be started by the
IC... and there's no provision for removing an IC. Another thought for
a policy-review? Maybe the IC should "not" be a ZC.
WD> Personally, and that's on a side note since the situation is only
valid in a non-North American context (which means 90% of Fidonet), I
believe that any fidonet.xx-domain (where the xx-denotes a country)
should be handled by the RC of the country. Please, North-Americans,
understand that outside your realm Country=Region.
WD> As for the others here in this and other conferences. Making a lot
of noise and displaying obnoxious attitudes has never solved anything.
A wall of mails doesn't impress me either and it was a simple
Fido-point operator who made the most sense to me.
WD> Maybe that is also an idea to be taken on board in a policy review
... point- operators do matter and they contribute.
I'm closing the books here in this matter and will not communicate
anymore via conferences to people because at this point in time the
latency in mail- distribution might effectively thwart any solution
and nobody's interests are served by that.
WD> If the few remaining individuals responsible for 99% of the noise,
call it the barroom-brawls maybe, want to continue their ranting they
will have to understand they will not be cluttering my bandwith as I
will not be reading them.
Hopefully this was a satisfactory answer?
Have a nice day,
\x/@rd
--- DB 1.58/001877
* Origin: Many Glacier on ADSL now (2:292/854)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: michael kleerbaum
To: Steven Leeman
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 26 1 Jan 2001
Re: FidoNet-Domains St:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Steven,
SL> likewise here...I've taken the liberty of remonstrating fido.be/
fidonet.be without asking Ward Dossche first ... my node has been put
on hold because of that :-|
MK> In the german node-echo NODES.024 began these weekend a discussion
about your "case". Many Germans have domains with "Fido" or "FidoNet".
I think, I write for most of the nodes in Europe and the rest of
Fidoworld, when I say, that we don't like the things, that Ward Dosche
has done to you and we will all stand behind you.
Everybody should be able to use Internet-Domains with "FidoNet" and
"Fido" because we are a hobby-network and not a commercial network.
I invite you to the nodes.024. I know, you understand german and we
understand your mother tongue and I know, you can write in german.
We want and need information from you about this case, because in near
future, some web-projects about FidoNet become international, like the
www.was-ist-fido.de-project and we DON'T want any restrictions from
the IC and ZC/2 because it ISN'T his job to do this.
Michael
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Joe Jared
To: Janis Kracht
Re: Ward Dossche
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Janis!
Monday December 25 2000 20:09, you wrote to Dave Hamilton:
> Do you have an opinion of Ward Dossche's treatment of Steven Leeman?
JK> Yes, I do. Steven contacted me on the 22nd of December about
this. I gave him some ideas that he might present to Ward to try to
make things work out but I did not hear anything from Steven after
that. If Ward does remove Steven from the nodelist, or puts his
listing on hold over this I definitely feel it is very wrong.
Thank you.
joejared@osirusoft.com
--- GoldED/W32 3.0.1
* Origin: telnet://osirusoft.com (1:103/301)
By: Janis Kracht
To: Dave Hamilton
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 27 1 Jan 2001
Re: Ward Dossche
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Dave,
> About that message on 12-25-2000 from Ross Cassell to All:
>> Its rather disturbing to see ones nodelisting being affected over
>> registering internet domain names or Ward throwing his 'TITLE'
>> around:
>> "I am the INTERNATIONAL COORDINATOR"
> Do you have an opinion of Ward Dossche's treatment of Steven Leeman?
Yes, I do. Steven contacted me on the 22nd of December about this. I
gave him some ideas that he might present to Ward to try to make
things work out but I did not hear anything from Steven after that. If
Ward does remove Steven from the nodelist, or puts his listing on hold
over this I definitely feel it is very wrong.
>Does the RCC have an opinion?
That I can't tell you ... most likely they have been busy with family
today as I have been. I've seen Ross' posts here obviously <smile>.
> I think it's obscene.
There is a body whose name escapes me at the moment who decides such
issues as ownership of Domain names.. even if this body decides that
Ward should have ownership of this domain name, Steven should not be
removed from the nodelist. In my reply to Steven on the 22nd, I told
him to let me know if he was removed.
Take care,
Janis
--- BBBS/LiI v4.01 Flag-1
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:2320/38)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Darrell Salter
To: Frank Vest
Re: simple things [1]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank Vest wrote in a message to Darrell Salter:
DS> If you follow my poor example, as the Region 12 nodelist clerk
(head bookkeeper), that is exactly what I did.
FV> Very good. I agree with you 100% in your actions, if not in all of
the beliefs.
I advocate that you are entitled to those beliefs and are free to
exercise them as a Fidonet Sysop. I expect the same. The problem
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 28 1 Jan 2001
starts when someone presumes to force their beliefs on the other. I
believe this is always wrong.
I'd like to thank you for your reply. It was detailed and straight
forward.
DS> All that remains now is for someone to twist my words and try to
shove them down my throat. I'll resist and we'll be back to where we
were.
FV> While I still believe that P4 is valid and offers a method of
FV> operation for Fidonet,
DS> Never have I claimed that you, or any other Sysop, is not free to
believe so. I have always said that there are some good guidelines in
P4. In this much we are agreed. The problem comes in when some Sysops
try to force the parts of P4 I reject upon me.
FV> it would seem that your method works/worked as well.
DS> Yes, but I don't insist on my way for others. I expect the same
consideration.
FV> At the risk of inferring wrath,
DS> I do it all the time, it ain't that bad. :-)
FV> I see a lot of similarity in what I read in P4 of handling such an
occurrence as the "Kari" incident and the way it was handled in R12.
FV> Maybe we aren't that far apart after all?
DS> Probably not, but then you may not have an axe to grind.
Darrell
darrell@sprk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Darrell Salter
To: Jerry Schwartz
Re: simple things
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Schwartz wrote in a message to Dave Hamilton:
JS> That's where Darrell could have been more helpful.
JS> ...
I did a good job processing the Region's nodelist submissions. The ZC
and I did a good job and had no difficulty getting the Region 12
nodelist submissions processed into the nodediff accurately and in a
timely fashion. I served my term as R12C and passed the torch, just as
the Sysops of Region 12 and I had discussed and agreed to do during my
campaign for the R12C position. My Region is pleased and satisfied
with my performance judging by the lack of complaint and expressions
of gratitude I have received from the Sysops here. I thank them now
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 29 1 Jan 2001
publicly for giving me the opportunity to serve them and for
supporting me. Your critical comment above notwithstanding, combined
with the fact that you are not an R12 Sysop, leaves me to suggest to
you that I am quite pleased and very satisfied with the job I did as
R12C.
Some Sysops outside of Region 12 pressured me to be the RC they wanted
me to be. Some Sysops outside of Region 12 pressured me to do the
things they wanted me to do. They were very much mistaken if they
thought they could coerce me without first obtaining a mandate from
the Sysops of Region 12, interestingly, the very people I see them now
abusing publicly. But these things come as no surprise to me. I am
not new to Fidonet and have witnessed this behavior in it's many
flavors, some subtle, some not so subtle, some downright rude and
meanspirited, many times before. I note that other RCs did not offer
much resistance to such tactics. As an RC I submit I fared much better
than they. Perhaps my ability to resist such pressure is but one
reason my Region elected me in the first place. We have some very
smart people here.
Darrell darrell@sprk.com http://sparkys.dyndns.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carol Shenkenberger wrote in a message to Darrell Salter:
DS> If my "axe to grind" has to do with "power mongering *Cs", which,
I be is *exactly* what I said above, then I'd say he definitely IS
aware of it and definitely IS part of it. Don't you agree?
CS> Yes, but your references below are specific to Z1 things that he
CS> won't most likely know much about.
My point is that, contrary to your statement, this shit happens in
Zone 1 also. It's happened in the past and it happens now. You don't
have a leg to stand on to preach to Zone 2 Sysops about the virtues of
Zone 1. We've got our policy thumping Sysop-abusers too. If Steven is
not aware of this, he should be before he accepts a node number here.
What's to stop a certain Zone 1 RC from immediately filing a policy
complaint as soon as Zone 2 Sysops are listed here in Zone 1 just like
he did last time? Nothing.
What's to stop the Z1C from threatening to excommunicate a Zone 1
Sysop or a Zone 1 Region for listing out-of-Zone Sysops just like it
happened last time? Nothing.
CS> No, was not aware of anything recent. I have heard of the earlier
CS> problem,
You were aware of the earlier problem yet you claimed that node
numbers aren't under threat of being toasted in Zone 1? Again, I'm not
calling you a liar, merely suggesting that you are dead wrong. As a
Zone 1 Sysop you are hardly in a position to be preaching about the
type of abuse you claim doesn't happen here, when it obviously does.
Yes, I have recently been the subject of a possible policy complaint
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 30 1 Jan 2001
by a Zone 1 Sysop and RC. The fact is, Sysops in Zone 1 will go after
other Sysops' node numbers too. This should have been clear to you
during the question and answer period during the recent Z1C election.
CS> and that now most of Z1 isn't so adamant about Geo-restrictions as
CS>it once was (which I consider overall to be good as the Geo doesn't
CS> really 'fit' all circumstances as you know).
I'm glad you now consider this to be good. It was my Region that was
persecuted in this manner by a Zone 1 Sysop and a Z1C. It was my
Region and my Region alone that stood against the Z1C. Now you are
also aware that very recently my own node number was also under
threat. You'd do well to remember that this type of abuse still
happens in Zone 1 the next time you are tempted to preach how it
doesn't happen here.
Darrell
darrell@sprk.com
http://sparkys.dyndns.org --- * Origin: Sparky's BBS
(telnet://bbs.sprk.com) (1:229/1)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Carol Shenkenberger
To: Ward Dossche
Re: Re: Erratum
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*** Quoting Ward Dossche from a message to Warren Bonner ***
WD> ******************** ERRATUM ********************
WD> To be removed as a ZC a referendum needs to be started by the IC..
WD> and
WD> there's no provision for removing an IC. Another thought for a
WD> policy-review? Maybe the IC should "not" be a ZC.
WD> ******************** ERRATUM ********************
WD>
WD> The above text in the previous message should be read as:
WD>
WD>"To be removed as a ZC a referendum needs to be started by the IC..
WD>under current prevailing conditions it might be hard to find a
WD>majority for removing an IC. Another thought for a policy-review? M
WD>the IC should "not" be a ZC."
CS>The IC *CAN* be removed by the ZC's. The same way they put you in,
they can take you back out.
Only the Z2 RC's can remove a Z2C however the IC hat is not subject to
the Z2 RC's but the ZC's of all 6 regions.
Watch your steps Ward. You are in deep kimchee.
xxcarol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 31 1 Jan 2001
By: Ian Moote
To: MICHAEL KLEERBAUM
Re: Statement
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MK> IM> That doesn't make any difference to the FidoNazis.
MK> ^^^^^^^^^ Oh,
MK> please. Come on, Ian!
MK>
MK> This whole case has absolute [sic] nothing to do with any nazis
MK> [sic]! Please let them out of this discussion.
I don't know what _you're_thinking of, Michael, but I was referring to
fascist attitudes shared by many on FidoNet -- so many, in fact, as to
have given birth to the word "FidoNazi".
By "fascism" I mean "violent opposition to one's extremist viewpoint".
Ward obviously holds an extremist viewpoint here. He is offended by
Steven's registration of domains containing "fido" and "fidonet". His
opposition to Steven is ostensibly because "someone else" has a
certain amount of legal control over those terms.
1. It is not Ward who holds this legal control.
2. Ward is not the servicemark police.
3. Ward has no jurisdiction over anything that Steve does outside of
FidoNet.
Ergo, Ward's extremist viewpoint.
4. Ward will summarily delete Steve from the NodeList if Steve does
not comply with Ward's personal demands which are none of his business
anyway. This is a philosophically violent action.
Hm. Violent opposition to an extremist viewpoint. Looks pretty fascist
to me. Especially when you consider:
5. There is apparently personal history between Steve and Ward, and
this seems to be more of a motivator here than Tom Jennings legal
rights.
No, the more I think of it, the more the word "Nazi" seems to apply.
Sorry. I know that it's an oft-abused word, but if the shoe fits...
Take care and TTYL.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 32 1 Jan 2001
=================================================================
ARTICLES
=================================================================
By: Ward Dossche
To: Ross Cassell
Re: Re: Ward Dossche
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross,
RC> Pay attention to messages written by Steven Leeman in the FIDONEWS
and FN_SYSOP echoes and I just read another message from a German
sysop in FIDONEWS, lending support to LEEMANS claims.
It seems you are miserably failing at what Fidonet is about:
communication.
If a person-A tells something to 10 different people, and these 10
different people then relay it on to third sources and these third
sources provide feed- back to you, then how many versions will you get
and how will they sound? At the start it was one thing but I bet you
will receive 10 different multi-color variations.
The first thing you ought to do is get your facts straight meaning
getting another opinion, like at the source for example, because I
have never had a confrontation with a German sysop over this and what
I've seen only today from German sysops was based on their quest for
information rather than on knowledge.
I take serious offense over your barroom-ethics and -manners. If you
have a hangover, why waste it on me/us?
My sympathy rather goes to a guy named Stefan Wuyts whom I'm certain
you've never heard about. He operates a point-address at Steven
Leeman's and at least he wasn't as mentally challenged as you are to
set up a peer-to-peer communication in a balanced way to work-out a
solution. A proposal to consensus and modus-vivendi was made and I
understand it has initially not met with opposition.
Next time you feel like jerking-off again, Ross, do it less public.
OK? And if you've got to do it here, please squirt in another
direction.
RC> If any of this is true, Dossche ought to resign immediately!
Shall I tell you where you can put such a slogan? ;-)
Have a nice day anyway,
\x/@rd
--- DB 1.58/001877 * Origin: Many Glacier on ADSL now (2:292/854)
By: David Calafrancesco
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 33 1 Jan 2001
To: Janis Kracht
Re: Ward Dossche
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Janis Kracht wrote in a message to David Calafrancesco:
> listings. What Ward has done (at least as far as I can tell from
> Ross' cross
> postings) is nothing short of extortion.
JK> Well, from what I have heard from Ward, Ward is not removing
JK> Steven's node number. The issue of the .be domain names has been
JK> resolved as well.
The threat of of serious repercussions for monetary gain (A FQDN is an
asset with a dollar value attached) is extortion. Whether the person
doing the extorting backs down in the face of massed and reasoned
opposition or not is irrelevant. Extortion is a crime. The threat of
extortion is a crime as well. Someone who has sufficiently shown
criminal type behavior should not be the international coordinator of
this organization.
Had Ward discussed the issues with Steven instead of moving directly
to threats of delisting then it would not be extortion.
As a node in this zone, I would ask that you as ZC of this zone, take
steps to determine whether this incident is sufficient to have Ward
removed by the ZCC as IC at the least. Abuse of power is one of the
worst offenses one in power can commit.
Dave Calafrancesco, Team OS/2
dave@drakkar.org
* Origin: Druid's Grove BBS - (914)/876-2237 (1:2624/306)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: brenda donovan
To: michael kleerbaum
Re: Domains
----------------------------------------------------------------------
mk> Is it so, that -you have been acting as the International
Coordinator- everybody who reserved a domain name including "fido"
will have to ask you for permission, and will otherwise be removed
from the nodelist?
mk> Yes or no, please.
mk> With one sentence: You just can't remove somebody from the
nodelist because he reserved a _national_ www domain faster than you,
and even less if he didn't have any opportunity to establish local
communication about the contents of the concerning site.
BD> You are correct here. He cannot excommunicate a node over
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 34 1 Jan 2001
something not techical and outside of fidonet. To do so is abuse of
power!
He should retract or resign!
Brenda Donovan
RC10
* Origin: R10 RHUB - TNL Online! - FTP Mail - San Diego, CA (1:10/3)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Jerry Schwartz
To: Dave Hamilton
Re: Ward Dossche
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, Dave...
Dec 25, 2000 at 14:19, Dave Hamilton wrote to Janis Kracht:
DH> Do you have an opinion of Ward Dossche's treatment of Steven
Leeman? Does the RCC have an opinion?
DH> I think it's obscene.
If things are as they were reported, I doubt you'll find many who
disagree with you.
I had severe misgivings about Ward. Despite all kinds of assurances
that he was really a nice guy, my long-distance opinion has always
been that he's a bit overwound. Nonetheless, I'd like to hear more
from other sources, if any exist. In particular, I'd like to hear from
Ward.
I don't think the "in your face" approach will work with him, in any
case; so I'd like to see this handled diplomatically.
Regards, Jerry mailto:jerryschwartz@comfortable.com
http://www.writebynight.com
--- Msged/NT TE 05 * Origin: Write by Night (1:142/928)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NASCAR_CONTEST echo!
Bobby Queen, 1:379/5
For those who are interested in NASCAR racing I just want to spread
the word about our NASCAR_CONTEST echo and a little contest we hold
every year. This coming Feb 2001 we will be starting our 4th year in
holding this contest in FidoNet and being gated with RaceNet and RIME.
This past year was a poor one in people staying with the contest till
the end of the season.
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 35 1 Jan 2001
WE NEED FOLKS who love NASCAR and would like to guess who will win the
pole and come in 1st thru 3rd place. Just AREAFIX the NASCAR_CONTEST
echo and join in.
The rules are going to be discussed between now and February and then
the FUN BEGINS! Can the WOMEN beat the men again like they did in
1999? Or will the MEN get the best of the women like they did when
they came back to win in 2000?
Husbands talk your wives into joining with you and wives do likewise
and talk your husbands into joining. We have always had spouses
competing against each other since our 1st year.
So join me now in NASCAR_CONTEST and lets start the ball rolling on
this next exciting season of NASCAR racing into the new millennium!
..... Atlanta to Daytona - The longest 3 months of the year!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* Zone 2 participation of FidoNews.
By: Michiel van der Vlist, 2:280/5555, pa0mmv@vrza.org
Dear FidoNews editor,
MV> It is no secret that the Snooze is largely dominated by
contributions from zone 1. I noted that you encourage articles
from other zones, albeit without much success. Under the new
rules I could have written this article in Dutch also. I choose
not to do so. How many people receiving FidoNews can read Dutch?
Less than one percent I estimate. For all the others it would
just be noise. A too high signal to noise ratio shies off the
readers and I think this is precisely the problem with Fidonews
as seen from outside zone 1.
WB> Thank you for your response. I'll try to answer your points of
concern from an Editors viewpoint about the construction of a edition
of the Snooze. Firstly, it is a NA newsletter, and English is the
primary language. If others don't want to submit their articles in
their language and English translation... that is their loss. I have
offered to try to make space available. If you have ten times more
sysops in Z2 as you claim, and only "one percent" read-write Dutch I
guess the other Languages are English, french, spanish, portuguese,
Italian and German all of whom use English as a second language. IF
you don't want to submit, why do you bitch about it?
MV> Why do we see so few contributions from other zones? Zone 2 in
particular? It counts about ten times as many sysops and who
knows how many points. The main reason for the zone 1 domination
of FidoNews is imho the fact that it ... is zone 1 dominated.
WB> Well Duh! If you won't participate that only leaves the ones that
do and thus the domination. Send me your articles in any Language
with English translation. It isn't hard to scan down past any text in
any Language.
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 36 1 Jan 2001
MV> The cure would be to *discourage* articles that are only of zone 1
local interest.
WB> Then what would be the need to publish the FidoNews?
MV> In the past month we have seen an increase in the volume of
FidoNews due to the ongoing Z1C election. Why?
WB> Because the campaign speeches, the question and answers are the
news not only in Zone one but to other readers in the other Zones.
Just because you have no interest doesn't negate my responsibility
to all the others that look to find out how we do things.
MV> Why do the sysops in zone 1 flood the world with what for many of
us this side of the pond is no more than bickering among the locals?
WB> Why do you read it if you don't like it or learn something about
the folks who submit articles?
MV> Why can't they be content with discussing it in an appropriate
echomail conference like we do when matters of local interest are to
be discussed?
WB> We do! What is reprinted in the FidoNews is only a small part, the
high-lights, of what goes on in the many echoes.
MV> How would you feel if the German sysops (forming a region bigger
than zone 1) started using the snooze as a playground for their petty
bickering over an RC24 election?
WB> I would love for them to submit articles, we then could see how
some problems are solved in Germany, and apply the knowledge here; and
they may learn some tricks from us.
MV> I confess that on several occasions I have hit the "quit editor"
key after exclaiming "Oh no, not *another* article from someone not
pleased with the way things go in the Z1C election.
WB> That is the beauty of it all... everyone has the same ability to
scan what they are interested in, and skip all that is of no value to
them. No shame to confess there. Everyone has different tastes. some
would love to have multi-language articles just to brush up on their
"other" Languages... and correspond with new friends in other
countries.
MV> Process! The snooze is zone 1 dominated because potential
contributors from other zones are put off by the zone 1 dominance.
WB> Well, you have broken the ice, <BWG> and I hope we can continue to
receive articles from you...next time on things in your Zone so it
can have something to read about at home there!
MV> A vicious circle. Maybe you as editor should ask what the readers
outside zone 1 are NOT interested in seeing in the snooze.
WB> Why? The FidoNews is for things folks are interested in! All of
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 37 1 Jan 2001
the articles are interesting to some folks. None would want to know
what you or any other individual would "NOT" like. FidoNews is for
everyone to peruse as they wish.
MV> My list would be:
1) Articles that cover topics of only local interest, such as RC
and ZC elections. They stir some interest but after the third
round it gets very boring.
2) Articles in a language I can not read. The idea may be good but
it is not going to work. The only examples of successful
multilingual magazines I have seen are the fodder that airline
companies feed us to keep our thoughts from hitting the ground
at a vertical speed higher than the landing gear can take.
3) "Tear jerkers" as Sharon Westons' "The warmth of a smile." Maybe
in NA culture such stories are an unconditional 'go', but imnsho
it belongs in the Salvation Army's Digest or whatever it is called.
My response when I see it in FidoNews is: "What's it got to do
with FidoNet?
WB> Thank you for your candor. I hope you submit many more articles.
MV>I respect the tradition of FidoNews editors to publish anything not
in violation of the (NA?) law. Maybe it is time however to review this
policy. Maybe it is time to define the topic of FidoNews and restrict
articles to those that are on topic.
WB> Nope! No censorship of any submission that is acceptable in the
perimeters established by Tom Jennings the copyright holder.
MV> Last but not least:
I am shocked to find out that the editor of the snooze is no
longer POTS crash mailable. Ok, there is an alternative: Joe
Jared at 1:103/301. I say if that is where contributions via
POTS should go, Joe Jared is the one that should carry the
1:1/23 aka.
WB> Nope, there too, anything sent to 1:1/23 comes straight to me
through my Coeditor at 1:103/301. As Coeditor he could put his name on
the /23 address and I did ask him to do so. Joe declined as his "name
has nothing to do with the delivery of Netmail with file attache as
all POTS to 1:1/23 passes through 1:103/301 to my 1:103/401 Netmail
address. So as he pointed out to me, his name hasn't anything to do
with the Snooze getting the submitted articles.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention, so that I could clear it up
for you and anyone else that may wonder what the path is.
Regards,
Ol'wdb, Ed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
++++++++++++++++++++GOOD NEWS JUST IN FROM STEVE LEEMAN++++++++++++++
(20381) Fri 29 Dec 00 10:03p
By: Steven Leeman
To: All
Re: New Nodelist
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 38 1 Jan 2001
St:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello All,
Friday December 29 2000 15:53, michael kleerbaum wrote to All:
mk> 0032-16-580862 skynetbbs2.dyns.cx, Rotselaar 2:292/624
mk> 0032-16-580862 SkyNet Bbs Line2, Rotselaar 2:292/626
mk> The "Hold" is gone and Steven is still in the new nodelist.
indeed...I also noticed from the nodelist (no message from Ward)
mk> I want to thank all nodes and points in the USA, Canada, Germany,
mk> Belgium and the rest of FidoWorld for supporting Steven to
MK> become a
mk> "normal" Node again.
many thanks to you all!
o Steven Leeman,
)/\,[_) Sysop SkyNET Bbs
`T7 ]=[ http://skynetbbs.dyns.cx (Dutch/English)
* Origin: SkyNet Bbs <32-(0)16-580862> (2:292/624)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 39 1 Jan 2001
=================================================================
OL'WDB'S COLUMN
=================================================================
By: Warren Bonner
To: Ward Dossche, Europe Gate (1/2)
Re: Fidonews
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WD> Warren,
Thank you for your very clear message from a few days ago in
FIDONEWS (the conference) to which I tried to provide a balanced
follow-up which, with proper editorial intervention, might suit
as an article.
WB> It is one of many, many articles I have been deluged with,
demanding my attention "for next issue".
WD> However, my very open and defenseless attempt to write something
within a few hours has been abused by some individuals who literally
have quoted selectively that I've declared the IC- position is now
cemented to my butt and I can flick the middlefinger to anyone.
WB> I read it as a good example of flying off the handle in a snit.
Example: `How dare anyone question my authority, as long as I am Z2C I
am not removable from my International Coordinator position, and I can
flip my middle-finger at everyone'.
Also your continued claim that you have the right to "come down heavy"
on any nodelisted sysop who has an Internet Domain with the word
"Fido or Fidonet" in it's title, and the site displeases you. Folks
want to know where you get this power!?
WD> You will recall, I hope, I was merely pointing to an obvious
weakness in P4 now that 2 of the 6 mandates in ZCC are not exercised.
It means under the current constellation if there were to be a voting,
which I strongly doubt, the current IC needs to vote against himself
in order to reach a majority.
WB> I don't read the P4 policy guidelines exactly as you do. Not my
call, probably because I don't know what, "It means under the current
constellation" means... unless you mean `constitution'.
WB> If the other ZC's Do Not agree with you, you may be out as IC. The
guidelines set forth in P4 are not a ratified Constitution. And under
our P4 guidelines, there is NO provision for an IC to remove a node
from the node list. You are not a NC or RC, the only ones responsible
for the nodelist on that level.
WB> As far as the current Z2C voting against himself statement above,
the current IC should disqualify himself in this kind of dispute as
his position is the one in question. You cant shrug it off with a
suggestion of a "policy review perhaps".
WD> If he is to disqualify himself from voting there cannot be a
majority at all <period>. I pointed out this was a serious matter for
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 40 1 Jan 2001
concern during a policy-review.
WB> Nope, It will not come down like you fantasize. You are only one
of six Zones. And if through the Snooze your zone finds out what you
are trying to do to nodes who don't give up their property at your
demand "in two hours", and your claims to control the Internet... I'd
be real surprised if the RCC permits you to sit in the Z2C chair.
WD> Was I so wrong in highlighting that?
WB> Yes. For several reasons in reasonable minds. but primarily
because in a majority vote on anything the votes that are cast are the
ONLY ones that count. Abstentions and no votes do not count. You
can't claim empty chairs for your votes. That is ridiculous.
WD> The bottom-line for me is that instead of lending broad support
for some contributions for Fidonews (the publication) I need now to
revise my options and maybe start doing like Bob Satti did ...
replying with "Good", "You think so?", "So noted", etc...
WD> Had you done so, the threats and tyrannical actions on your part
would still be counselled and no ill-advised action would have been
demanded. Bob Satti would have made better use of your perceived power
in your position in my mind. The NC's and RC's are the real powers in
fido and make the mail flow... the ZC positions are necessary only for
Zonal problems, the IC position is icing on the fido cake; your icing
is no sugar and all demand.
WD> I've been linked to the FIDONEWS conference for less than a week
and I will soon turn it to passthru again. Unfortunately I cannot deal
with the amount of abuse and falsifications produced by a mere handful
of individuals, but a handful who shouts too much and talks too
little.
WB> Ward, you almost make me feel sorry for you except for the facts:
1.) Only you, in your own words, threatened a nodes removal. 2.) Only
you, in your own words, claimed Internet fido domain policing 3.) Only
you, in your own words, "will come down heavy on any fido domain that
is negative in any way..."
WD> Our RC29 her in Belgium, who is a longstanding sysop and respected
all over this 11,000-node zone, expressed yesterday he has to go back
to the darkest days of Fidonet to find these levels of abuse and
wickedness of which the obvious signs of bad will and manipulation for
us reach new heights.
WB> I respect your friend RC29, but look elsewhere for the abuse, it
is not of the sysops making. It is of your own abuse of perceived
power you fantasize is yours in an IC hat. To resist your unfounded
power is not wickedness as you are not God. To resist God would be
wicked in all religions; but resist your abuse of power and listen to
you accuse the lowly sysops of being wicked is ludicrous.
WD> Yesterday, I went to work all day but I have been physically sick
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 41 1 Jan 2001
over this. I'm determined not to let it further affect my health, my
family and my work ... not necessarily in that order.
WB> For that kind of stress and worry that you suffer, I am truly
sorry. I have been in that state back when I owned three fair sized
companies. This however is not work induced, Ward. It is your
determination alone to suffer it no matter what, rather than post an
apology you owe Steven. It unfortunately has gone too far now for an
apology to make any difference. And claiming lordship over the
Internet domains kinda cooked your goose. It NEVER pays to NEVER back
off when wrong no matter what Green Peace practices.
WD> What I mean to say, Warren, is that I am out of FIDONEWS (the
conference) but if you need to get in touch with me you know where to
reach me. E-mail is also accepted at wd@skynet.be.
WB> Thanks for the article, Ward, and I enjoyed this "Chat with the
Editor" session. I am truly sorry you couldn't take the honest
friendly suggestions a week ago to apologize, admit an error and move
fido on down the road to include eventual IP, URL Fidointernet.
WD> Don't take this personal, it isn't.
WB> No, no... I hope you don't feel my candid thoughts are worthless.
WD> Have a nice day,
WB> You too.
WD> \x/@rd
WB> Regards,
Ol'wdb, editor fidonewsletter, a weekly publication in fidonet.
(Fido, fidonet is a Tom Jennings Copyright)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Howdy Warren.
Thanks for the nice reply. Feel free to put it in the snooze.
23 Dec 28 23:39, Warren Bonner wrote to Mark Stennett:
>> Howdy All.
>>
>> I left Fidonet some 6 years ago due to work and have recently
>> come back. Prior
>> to that I was NC, NEC and even ran the NorCal Star for a time
>> in Net203. I
>> remember the long distance bills and the electric bills.
>> Breaking even was
>> impossible. Keeping 7 386 class computers talking was a
>> challenge. Keeping the
>> room cool without additional technology called for ingenuity.
>>
>> Today, I have 80% of my 6 year old system frozen on tape and
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 42 1 Jan 2001
>> have been recently reading the mail in here. I have to tell
>> ya, it appears nothing in the last 6 years has changed by
>> reading this one single echo. Bitch, bitch, bitch. If the
>> nodelist is any clue these days, 'we' are spending way too
>> much time bitching about who does what when we should be
>> talking about how we communicate in the new age. This includes
>> the internet. Like it or not, everyone knows what AOL is. Try
>> asking these same folks what Fidonet is. 'We' are pissing in
>> our own pool. The average dog has a life span of 14 years.
>> This pooch is laying on the porch watching the big internet
>> dogs run by...
>>
WB> Sorry for quoting entire message, but it is worth it for
WB> all to read and consider the wisdom of the message... wish
WB> it had arrived an hour earlier as I have already hatched
WB> the Snooze for this week; otherwise
WB> it would be one of the articles... maybe even Guest
WB> Editor's comment. How many other Mark Stennett's are out
WB> there????
WB> Thanks Mark, for a ray of reason in an echo dimmed by lack
WB> of leadership in the past. A much brighter light is just
WB> now in place
WB> with the election of Janis Kratch to Z1C. Let us hope for a
WB> new spirit in an old puppy... <G>
WB> Ol'wdb
WB> -+-
WB> + Origin: Telnet://TheLastStop.osirusoft.com/ 1:103/401
WB> (1:103/401)
Later,
Mark
-------------------------------
Georgetown, TX
http://www.batcave.cc
Private Email: na6m@hotmail.com
-------------------------------
--- Msged/386 4.30
* Origin: =BATCAVE= Georgetown, TX http://www.fidonet.cc (1:382/23)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: michael kleerbaum
To: Alle
Re: Statement
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Diese Mail wurde weitergeleitet
MsgID : 2:2432/203@fidonet fbcacb9d
Originalabsender : michael kleerbaum@2:2432/203
erstellt am : 26.12.00 um 23:34
im Echo : /FIDO/ENET.SYSOP
an : Ward Dossche
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 43 1 Jan 2001
Betreff : Statement
Kommentar :
-------------------------------Mail Anfang----------------------------
Hi Ward,
Here is the statement from the WIF-Team Germany.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We have written this, because in our opinion your statement is not so
clear as it should be to give FidoNet-Users the security to make
FidoNet- related homepages in future without fearing restrictions from
you.
Is it so, that -you have been acting as the International Coordinator-
everybody who reserved a domain name including "fido" will have to ask
you for permission, and will otherwise be removed from the nodelist?
WD> Any sysop administering a fidonet-related internet-domain and
doing WD> that for the sole benefit of Fido is encouraged to keep
doing that.
And Steven Leeman did not so?
What has he done that you think you have the right to remove him from
the nodelist?
We knew Steven as a node who did many positive things related to
FidoNet. Many Sysops in Germany including us don't believe that he
intends doing something negative with "FIDO.BE" and "FIDONET.BE".
Question: Will you remove Steven from the Nodelist this Friday and WHY
do you think that you're having the right for doing this?
Must a node communicate with you and speak with you about things NOT
related to FidoNet? Who do you think who you are? You in your function
as a IC or ZC have to serve FidoNet and the users of FidoNet and not
to hinder them to make FidoNet well known in the WWW.
We, the members of the WIF-Team have bought the domain WAS-IST-FIDO.DE
a year ago. We have not asked any *C if this is allowed. Also we have
no *C informed that we would do so.
In the next year we're going do create several international versions
of our pages.
We are not going to ask ANYONE in FidoNet
a) which domains we are allowed to buy b) what is allowed to be shown
on the page.
We won't accept any interferences or restrictions relating to the
topic of the pages or the names of the domains by the FidoNet-*Cs
We have created these pages to attract new members for FidoNet. We do
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 44 1 Jan 2001
this cause we like FidoNet. We like the things we're doing "marketing"
for. So because we help saving Fido, we think that neither you nor
anyone else is having a right to hinder us doing so.
If you think someone is trying to use a "Fido" domain for something
not related to Fidonet in any kind your only option is to speak with
these people in a friendly manner. And even if they - being Fidonet
members - don't agree with you, because they (e.g.) want to make a
homepage for their dog "Fido", you have no right killing these guys
out of the nodelist.
For the WIF-Team Germany:
Jens Hassler 2:2476/847 Michael Kleerbaum 2:2432/203 Tobias
Gaertner 2:2476/847.47 Christoph Ripp 2:2432/203.10 Jan Kuehnert
2:2487/847.14
HTTP://WWW.WAS-IST-FIDO.DE
--- CrossPoint v3.30.018 R * Origin: www.was-ist-fido.de: Sag's
weiter! (2:2432/203)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Thom LaCosta
To: Ward Dossche
Re: Your behaviour within Fidonet ...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ward Dossche wrote in a message to Warren Bonner:
WD> If I need to state an official position then it is that all sysops
who maintain Fidonet-related internet-domains which are utilized to
further the aim of Fidonet are strongly encouraged to continue doing
so.
TL> But, you have no authority to direct anyone who owns a domain name
to do anything as it pertains to the domain name.
WD> It implies that if such domains are spotted which are not used in
that sense action is required. An item to be taken on board in a
policy-review?
TL> There is no Fidonet policy that has authority over domain names.
WD> Personally, and that's on a side note since the situation is only
valid in a non-North American context (which means 90% of Fidonet), I
believe that any fidonet.xx-domain (where the xx-denotes a country)
should be handled by the RC of the country. Please, North-Americans,
understand that outside your realm Country=Region.
TL> What you may believe has nothing to do with the policies and
procedures of any of the recognized registers of domain names.
Thom LaCosta
baltimoremd@baltimoremd.com
http://www.baltimoremd.com/
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 45 1 Jan 2001
---
* Origin: Home of The Other Robot (1:261/1352)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To: Janis Kracht
Re: Ward Dossche
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Janis Kracht wrote in a message to Dave Hamilton:
RC> About that message on 12-25-2000 from Ross Cassell to All:
>> Its rather disturbing to see ones nodelisting being affected over
>> registering internet domain names or Ward throwing his 'TITLE'
>> around:
>> "I am the INTERNATIONAL COORDINATOR"
RC> Do you have an opinion of Ward Dossche's treatment of Steven
Leeman?
JK> Yes, I do. Steven contacted me on the 22nd of December about
this. I gave him some ideas that he might present to Ward to try to
make things work out but I did not hear anything from Steven after
that. If Ward does remove Steven from the nodelist, or puts his
listing on hold over this I definitely feel it is very wrong.
RC> Does the RCC have an opinion?
JK> That I can't tell you ... most likely they have been busy with
family today as I have been. I've seen Ross's posts here obviously
<smile>.
RC> I think it's obscene.
JK> There is a body whose name escapes me at the moment who decides
such issues as ownership of Domain names.. even if this body decides
that Ward should have ownership of this domain name, Steven should not
be removed from the nodelist. In my reply to Steven on the 22nd, I
told him to let me know if he was removed.
It's called WIPO and Ward wouldn't stand a chance to take the domains
away. Tom Jennings on the other hand would be able to take them with a
minimum of fuss as long as he could prove that the domains were being
used to emulate the purposes of his copyright or to cause confusion
over the proper domains. Seeing as how Tom Jennings doesn't own any of
the internet domains containing FIDO or FIDONET to the best of my
knowledge, even he wouldn't be able to change these domain listings.
What Ward has done (at least as far as I can tell from Ross' cross
postings) is nothing short of extortion.
DC> I would get this kid and their entire region (probably region 28
as well if they wanted) moved into the Z1 nodelist... keep the RCs as
well... we can certainly use more RCs when it comes time to rewrite P4
;)
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 46 1 Jan 2001
Dave Calafrancesco, Team OS/2
dave@drakkar.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Ward Dossche
To: Malcolm Miles
Re: Re: Your behaviour within Fidonet ...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Malcolm,
> DR> FYI, the FidoNet name is a Trade Mark owned by Tom
> DR> Jennings. No NET, REGION or ZONE owns any trademarks on
> DR> any names.
> Is it? A number of people have done a trademark search and not found
any
> reference to a Fidonet trademark.
I've querried the man himself and he's quite reluctant to say very
much about
it.
\x/@rd
--- DB 1.58/001877
* Origin: Many Glacier on ADSL now (2:292/854)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Warren Bonner
To: Dale Ross
Re: Your behaviour within Fidonet ...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Malcolm!
> --== On 26/12/2000 11:09:36 AM ==--
>
> MM> The issue in question resides solely within Zone2 and was madey
> MM> by Ward wearing his Z2C hat.
Nope! Check his IC hat statement.
>
DR> Nope, not from what I've seen. He was using his IC hat.
>
DR> Thanks!
DR> Dale
Correct, and is the reason I suggested the ZCC may be interested in
removing him from offices he holds that impowers him to use nodelist
update software like a double edged sword on any sysop for any reason.
If he is willing to back off and apologize to Steve Leeman and his
down links, perhaps a ZCC resolution may be avoided; if not, I hope
they remove him from office just as we had to remove another abuser of
power who wore several hats in Region 10, Zone 1 awhile back.
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 47 1 Jan 2001
Ol'wdb
--- InterMail 2.29k * Origin: Telnet://TheLastStop.osirusoft.com/
1:103/401 (1:103/401)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: David Hallford
To: brenda donovan
Re: Hmmmm
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DH> Anyone going to give Steve Leeman a node number? This certainly
looks like a case of political asylum to me.
> Ross offered him one earlier today. I believe
> Steven also got an invite from a German net.
> It's all in the FIDONEWS echo.
Excellent!
--- GEcho 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The Psychotic Submarine (1:211/103)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Ross Cassell
To: michael kleerbaum
Re: Your behaviour within Fidonet ...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello michael!
25 Dec 00 22:17, you wrote to me:
RC>> To which, WARD does not have this authority whatsoever.
mk> But he is able to do that. Who will or can stop him from doing
this? (to delete Steven from the nodelist.)
In which case, I'll list him, Ward doesn't control the corner of the
nodelist I do.
==
Ross
E-mail: rcassell@home.com ICQ = 5305939
* Origin: The Eastern Star [Mail Hub] - 864.573.7069 (1:18/500)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 48 1 Jan 2001
=================================================================
FACTS IN HISTORY
=================================================================
From: <bob@nwstar.com>
Subject: Boxing Day
Date: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 8:27 PM
Boxing Day
(December 26th)
-=+by Dallas Hinton+=-
Origins: Few Americans have any inkling that there even is such
a thing as Boxing Day, let alone what the reason might be for a
holiday so named. However, before one concludes we're about to rag on
Americentric attitudes towards other cultures, we should quickly
point out that even though Boxing Day is celebrated in Australia,
Britain, New Zealand, and Canada, not all that many in those countries
have much of a notion as to why they get the 26 of December off.
Boxing Day might well be a statutory holiday in some of those lands,
but it's not a well understood one.
Despite the lively images suggested by the name, it has nothing to
do with pugilistic expositions between tanked-up family members who
have dearly been looking forward to taking a round out of each other
for the past year. Likewise, it does not gain its name from the
overpowering need to rid the house of an excess of wrappings and
mountains of now useless cardboard boxes the day after St. Nick
arrived to turn a perfectly charming and orderly home into a maelstrom
of discarded tissue paper.
The name also has nothing to do with returning unwanted gifts to
the stores they came from, hence its common association with hauling
about boxes on the day after Christmas.
The holiday's roots can be traced to Britain, where Boxing Day is
also known as St. Stephen's Day. Reduced to the simplest essence, its
origins are found in a long-ago practice of giving cash or durable
goods to those of the lower classes. Gifts among equals were exchanged
on or before Christmas Day, but beneficences to those less fortunate
were bestowed the day after.
And that's about as much as anyone can definitively say about its
origin because once you step beyond that point, it's straight into the
quagmire of debated claims and dueling folklorists. Which, by the way,
is what we're about to muddy our boots with.
Although there is general agreement that the holiday is of British
origin and it has to do with giving presents to the less fortunate,
there is still dispute as to how the name came about or precisely what
unequal relationship is being recognized.
At various times, the following "origins" have been loudly
asserted as the correct one:
* Centuries ago, ordinary members of the merchant class gave
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 49 1 Jan 2001
boxes of food and fruit to tradespeople and servants the
day after Christmas in an ancient form of Yuletide tip.
These gifts were an expression of gratitude to those who
worked for them, in much the same way that one now tips
the paperboy an extra $20 at Christmas time or slips the
building's superintendent a bottle of fine whisky. Those
long-ago gifts were done up in boxes, hence the day coming
to be known as "Boxing Day."
* Christmas celebrations in the old days entailed bringing
everyone together from all over a large estate, thus
creating one of the rare instances when everyone could be
found in one place at one time. This gathering of his
extended family, so to speak, presented the lord of the
manor with a ready-made opportunity to easily hand out
that year's stipend of necessities. Thus, the day after
Christmas, after all the partying was over and it was
almost time to go back to far-flung homesteads, serfs were
presented with their annual allotment of practical goods.
Who got what was determined by the status of the worker
and his relative family size, with spun cloth, leather
goods, durable food supplies, tools, and whatnot being
handed out. Under this explanation, there was nothing
voluntary about this transaction; the lord of the manor
was obligated to supply these goods. The items were
chucked into boxes, one box for each family, to make
carrying away the results of this annual restocking
easier; thus, the day came to be known as "Boxing Day."
* Many years ago, on the day after Christmas, servants in
Britain carried boxes to their masters when they arrived
for the day's work. It was a tradition that on this day
all employers would put coins in the boxes, as a special
end-of-the-year gift. In a closely-related version of this
explanation, apprentices and servants would on that day
get to smash open small earthenware boxes left for them by
their masters. These boxes would house small sums of money
specifically left for them.
This dual-versioned theory melds the two previous ones together
into a new form; namely, the employer who was obligated to hand out
something on Boxing Day, but this time to recipients who were not
working the land for him and thus were not dependent on him for all
they wore and ate. The "box" thus becomes something beyond ordinary
compensation (in a way goods to landed serfs was not), yet it's also
not a gift in that there's nothing voluntary about it. Under this
theory, the boxes are an early form of Christmas bonus, something
employees see as their entitlement.
* Boxes in churches for seasonal donations to the needy were
opened on Christmas Day, and the contents distributed by
the clergy the following day. The contents of this alms
box originated with the ordinary folks in the parish who
were thus under no direct obligation to provide anything
at all and were certainly not tied to the recipients by a
employer/employee relationship. In this case, the "box" in
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 50 1 Jan 2001
"Boxing Day" comes from that one gigantic lockbox the
donations were left in.
Whichever theory one chooses to back, the one thread common to all
is the theme of one-way provision to those not inhabiting the same
social level. As mentioned previously, equals exchanged gifts on
Christmas Day or before, but lessers (be they tradespeople, employees,
servants, serfs, or the generic "poor") received their "boxes" on the
day after. It is to be noted that the social superiors did not receive
anything back from those they played Lord Bountiful to: a gift in
return would have been seen as a presumptuous act of laying claim to
equality, the very thing Boxing Day was an entrenched bastion against.
Boxing Day was, after all, about preserving class lines.
By Dallas Hinton as told to Bob Seaborn on a cold bleak Canadian
night.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Mike Luther
To: Warren Bonner
Re: Very good!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stewart ..
> Fidonet is like a Little Fugue. Sometimes a two minute
> masterpiece,
WB> Can you write that for piano? I don't do guitar very well...
WB> <Ducking for cover> 8^)
I hope that one was tongue in cheek remark! Grin. It's the leading
entry notes in the right place for Bach's Little Fugue in G! Oh yes,
written for organ, but playable darned beautifully on a piano..
chuckle.
My beloved Mother was a performing arts graduate in piano from the
American Conservatory in Chicago back in the early '30's. I literally
cut my teeth on her Story & Clark upright at home. We won't go over
what happened next just after being caught at that. And the first
music I can remember hearing was that particular composition, at
around four years of age. She could play it *PERFECTLY*, both
as-written, and as individually interpreted.
Now, she's been ten years in a nursing home, totally paralyzed right
side and total loss of speech, but still totally able to comprehend
everything for all these years, I look longingly at that forever
stilled right hand that I can see so vividly starting those exact
notes. That, while at the same time, from her and Dad's coaching and
our culture, realizing that there is *NOTHING* that we can do to ever
recover even one minute from the past.
It's gone. It isn't worth arguing about and must provide us with a
reference framework to avoid making the same errors for today and into
the future. That perspective has a point here in Fido, as I see it.
Her final piano was a full Baldwin concert grand. I can't do *NEARLY*
the job she could on that composition. You can spend hours and hours
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 51 1 Jan 2001
at just one segment, getting things just right in any complex score.
At least that's my personal perspective.
Some Bach does scale somewhat to guitar; not so's I can determine on
my own Johnny Smith, the Little Fugue! Grin.
I see her darned near every day. There isn't a day that goes by that
I don't notice things. As we grow older, I think all of us have to
stop and wonder what's important, what we can do to make things better
at what we dabble, not tear things apart.
I've been in FidoNet for a while longer than her decline.
My original post thread to Janis was as strongly complimentary as I
could be, together with a long time understanding of how FidoNet seems
to work. It was positioned against where I realize we must go into
the future - or die.
Playing Fido is much like playing music. It isn't a specific score we
*HAVE* to play, exactly as the policy is written!
I had the unbelievable good fortune when Carl Heifitz was here for a
concert last month, to be able to attend a public two hour guest
lecture that he gave for the local congregation. His topic was how
interpretation changes music, based on what our personal experiences
bring to the score. This from the winner of the Competition in
Moscow, who refused to back down and played Jewish music for his
allowable "artist's choice" piece after winning the competition there.
He also donated his entire winnings to the families of Soviet Jewish
persecution *WHILE* in Moscow after he won it!
The announcer refused to announce his choice of music until, between
she and the KGB agent coaching her, he simply said, "If you don't,
I'll announce it personally." They gave in. It was twenty minutes
before the cheering stopped because you couldn't send the whole damned
concert hall to the Gulag...
Sounds something like some tales of Fido to me, right? Grin!
Of note. The Russian broadcast for the acceptance concert, given by
all the contestants, was stripped of his performance, but we, courtesy
of a live PBS feed during the event, have it available in the West!
Sounds something like some tales of Fido to me, right? Grin!
During the entire two hour lecture, he would take the Stradivarius.
He'd play certain segments of things exactly as the author wrote it.
Then he would play it as if it were colored the way he heard it, based
on the viewpoint of how a German Holocaust survivor would have 'heard'
that music. And then .. gave the concert the next day based *EXACTLY*
on that enriched perspective of the score. His family survived it and
he was able to actually go back and visit the family home, as well as
actually meet the immediate neighbors of his family.....
The arguments we have here over this and that haven't changed much in
the last ten years in Fido. Janis and this crew can get exactly what
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 52 1 Jan 2001
is needed for our future from P4 just as it stands, just as
beautifully as I heard Bach and all the rest played, when somebody who
really cared and really wanted to contribute to the betterment of a
group .. did so.
This group of RC's and Janis *HAVE* the opportunity and the ability to
do what is necessary, in my opinion, to make something better of us,
by interpretation, yet within the framework of what we have. The
majority of the RC's as little as I know of them, seem to have what I
think it takes to do this and have, as it seems, elevated someone whom
they feel has what is needed to do the job.
To do it will take, as I wrote, a long time of learning in Fido, to do
just a few minutes work and just get the job done. I'm interested in
seeing what decisions and efforts come out of all this before I form a
follow-on view of where we are going.. and.. if we are going.
WB> Can you write that for piano? I don't do guitar very well... WB>
<Ducking for cover> 8^)
Yeah .....
A long time ago I realized I don't do piano or guitar real well. Nor
Fido, but I try. So I copied off the first few measures... Grin..
Mike @ 117/3001
--- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Ziplog Public Port (1:117/3001)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Few Words From the Plagiarist
Bert Happel
1:2255/10
I doubt that many who are reading this issue recall my prior FidoNews
publication in December of 1998 (v5#51). It was a repayment to the
editor (Dale Lovell) for his kindness during that year's FidoCon in
Cincinnati (I hadn't made a room reservation before leaving central
Indiana and Dale put me up gratis in the Snooze Suite). Little did I
know that my seasonal drivel would become my likely source of
immortality.
FidoNet was only a few years old back then and echomail still new. Yet
readership of FidoNews was fairly widespread. The proof is on <gasp>
the Internet. If you perform a search on "Bert Happel" you will find
several hits where someone has stored (and sometimes HTML prettified)
the poem.
I went online with The I.O. Board BBS on August 14, 1986. The system
was a dual-floppy Victor 9000 with 896K RAM (no, that's not a typo -
as an IBM comparable but not a compatible, the V9 didn't conform to
all of the PC limitations). In the morning I'd load the BBS into a
600K RAMdrive and use all 620K of drive A: (there's another of those
non-compatible tweaks) for messages while all 620K of drive B: stored
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 53 1 Jan 2001
the online files. Since I ran it on my apartment voice line the BBS
was only available from 8am-6pm Monday through Friday while I was at
work. Within a couple months I obtained a second phone line for full
time operation of the BBS. Within several months I spent $1000.00 on
a used Victor VI with a 20MB hard drive. The BBS had more storage
than at my office!
The late 80's through 90's were boom times for BBSing. After
borrowing a friends 1200 baud modem I caught modem-fever. After
beginning with Fido v11 I joined IFNA and purchased a copy of Fido
v12. My goal was to run a reliable and friendly board. Fancy
graphics weren't important (and I ran Fido v12 which offered few ANSI
graphics options). After a year online the BBS had received 4000
calls before I joined FidoNet as a regional independent. For it's
second birthday the BBS joined the Central IN Net. The second year
saw an additional 8000 calls and expansion to 65MB of storage. The
third year saw 12,000 calls to the system.
I never pushed the technological envelope but added features as I
could. The BBS got a 1x CD-ROM drive in June of 1990. In March of
1993 the motherboard was upgraded to a 386/40 CPU (the same hardware
it continues to use!). In February of 1996 the BBS added a 7-disc CD
jukebox.
From there it has been downhill as the Internet rolled into our lives.
The caller database peaked at over 500 callers within the previous 90
days and 35 calls received a day. Currently there are 3 callers
within the past 90 days and receiving one or two calls a day.
So after more than 14 years and 4 months online I feel it's time to
find a new hobby. My involvement with the BBS has declined since
moving the system to my office three years ago. I enjoy scanning the
echos but faithfully read very few of them. The BBS was a wonderful
20th century phenomenon - and in days it will be the 21st Century.
Operating The I.O. Board BBS allowed me to form many friendships that
still exist today. I wish I could thank all those who assisted me
over the years but most of them have moved on and some have passed on.
Some folks assisted beyond belief, some were scoundrels and one was a
fugitive from the law. My colleagues in Region 11 have been congenial
and consistently worked for the betterment of FidoNet.
I wish you all the best. As long as FidoNet continues to serve a
purpose in your life and the life of your callers, may you enjoy your
system and the responsibility in operating it.
Bert Happel Soon to be Ex-Sysop of 1:2255/10 bhappel@indy.net
~~~~~~~~~~~END~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 54 1 Jan 2001
=================================================================
POET'S CORNER
=================================================================
Twas The Byte Before Computing M.E.
by Bert Happel
(with apologies to Clement C Moore)
Twas a week before the Millennium, when all through the house
The BBS was inactive so I idled my mouse;
The echomail was loaded on the hard disc with care,
In hopes that a caller would read them there.
The activity logs were nestled all snug in their Zips,
They keep shrinking each week unlike my fat hips;
And the modem was quiet, faking a rest
Trying to remember how to run a dial-up test.
When out of the subwoofer there arose such a clatter
I sprang to my desk to see what was the matter.
Away to the keyboard I flew like a flash,
Popped open the CD and heard a loud crash.
The lights on the crust of six inches of dust
Gave a luster of death to a mini-tower covered with crust.
When what to my wondering eyes did appear,
But a miniature sleigh and the eight data registers I fear.
With a little old driver, so lively and gloss
I knew in a moment he still remembered DOS.
More rapid than eagles his coursers they came,
And he whistled out and called them by name
"Now Binkley! Now Maximus! Now MsgEd and Squish!
On, Fido! On, BBSes! On, Dial-up Direct!
To the top of the memory! To the top of the stack!
Now dash away! Dash away! Dash away all!"
As leaves before the wild hurricane fly,
When they meet with an obstacle mount to the sky,
So up on the screen the coursers they flew,
With a sleigh full of utilities, and DOS commands too.
As I drew back my head and was turning around,
Out the USB port he came with a bound.
He was dressed all in ROM, from his head to his foot,
And his clothes were all tarnished with bytes and some soot;
A bundle of data he had flung on his back,
And he looked like he had a program he wanted to crack.
His eyes -- How they twinkled! His dimples, how merry!
His cheeks were like roses, his arms were so hairy!
His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow,
And the beard on his chin was as white as the snow;
The stump of a pipe he held in his teeth,
And the smoke it encircled his head like a wreath;
He had a broad face and a round little belly
That shook when he laughed like a bowl full of jelly.
He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old elf,
And I laughed when I saw him, in spite of myself;
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 55 1 Jan 2001
A flash of the SVGA and a twist of his head
Soon gave me to know I had a blue screen of death to dread;
He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,
And filled all the RAM; then turned, like a jerk,
And laying a finger aside of his nose,
And giving a nod, in the USB port he goes.
He sprang to the sleigh, his team they all whistled,
And away they all flew like they had sat on a thistle.
But I heard him exclaim, as my BBS faded out of sight,
"Best wishes to FidoNet now that the Internet rules the night!"
~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 56 1 Jan 2001
=================================================================
HUMOR
=================================================================
Date: Thursday, December 28, 2000 9:32 AM
What do you call a pregnancy that begins while using birth control?
A misconception.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Donald Duck and Minnie Mouse were up in a hotel room and decided that
they wanted to have sex. Well, the first thing Minnie asks is, "Do
you have a condom?" Donald says "No." Minnie tells Donald that if
he doesn't get a condom that they can't have sex and suggests to
Donald that he go buy a condom. She says that maybe they sell them at
the front desk. Donald proceeds to go downstairs and gets to the
front desk. He asks the hotel clerk if they sell condoms. The clerk
says "yes we do" and pulls one out from under the desk and gives it
to Donald. The clerk asks "Would you like me to put that on your
bill?" Donald says "NO! WHAT DO YOU THINK I AM, SOME KIND OF PERVERT?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=+BEST NEWSPAPER HEADLINES EVER+=-
01. Include Your Children When Baking Cookies
02. Something Went Wrong in Jet Crash, Experts Say
03. Police Begin Campaign to Run Down Jaywalkers
04. Drunks Get Nine Months in Violin Case
05. Iraqi Head Seeks Arms
06. Is There a Ring of Debris around Uranus?
07. Prostitutes Appeal to Pope
08. Panda Mating Fails; Veterinarian Takes Over
09. British Left Waffles on Falkland Islands
10. Teacher Strikes Idle Kids
11. Clinton Wins Budget; More Lies Ahead
12. Plane Too Close to Ground, Crash Probe Told
13. Miners Refuse to Work After Death
14. Juvenile Court to Try Shooting Defendant
15. Stolen Painting Found by Tree
16. Two Sisters Reunited after 18 Years in Checkout
Counter
17. War Dims Hope for Peace
18. If Strike Isn't Settled Quickly, It May Last a While
19. Couple Slain; Police Suspect Homicide
20. Man Struck by Lightning Faces Battery Charge
21. New Study of Obesity Looks for Larger Test Group
22. Astronaut Takes Blame for Gas in Space
23. Kids Make Nutritious Snacks
24. Typhoon Rips through Cemetery; Hundreds Dead
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RULES OF FLYING
01. Every takeoff is optional. Every landing is mandatory.
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 57 1 Jan 2001
02. If you push the stick forward, the houses get bigger. If
you pull the stick back, they get smaller. That is, unless
you keep pulling the stick all the way back, then they get
bigger again.
03. Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous.
04. It's always better to be down here wishing you were up
there than up there wishing you were down here.
05. The ONLY time you have too much fuel is when you're on
fire.
06. The propeller is just a big fan in front of the plane
used to keep the pilot cool. When it stops, you can actually
watch the pilot start sweating.
07. When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No one has ever
collided with the sky.
08. A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A
'great' landing is one after which they can use the plane
again.
09. Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long
enough to make all of them yourself.
10. You know you've landed with the wheels up if it takes
full power to taxi to the ramp.
11. The probability of survival is inversely proportional to
the angle of arrival. Large angle of arrival, small
probability of survival and vice versa.
12. Never let an aircraft take you somewhere your brain
didn't get to five minutes earlier.
13. Stay out of clouds. The silver lining everyone keeps
talking about might be another airplane going in the
opposite direction. Reliable sources also report that
mountains have been known to hide out in clouds.
14. Always try to keep the number of landings you make equal
to the number of take offs you've made.
15. There are three simple rules for making a smooth
landing. Unfortunately no one knows what they are.
16. You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of
experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience
before you empty the bag of luck.
17. Helicopters can't fly; they're just so ugly the earth
repels them.
18. If all you can see out of the window is ground that's
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 58 1 Jan 2001
going round and round and all you can hear is commotion
coming from the passenger compartment, things are not at all
as they should be.
19. In the ongoing battle between objects made of aluminum
going hundreds of miles per hour and the ground going zero
miles per hour, the ground has yet to lose.
20. Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, the
experience usually comes from bad judgment.
21. It's always a good idea to keep the pointy end going
forward as much as possible.
22. Keep looking around. There's always something you've
missed.
23. Remember, gravity is not just a good idea. It's the law.
And it's not subject to appeal.
24. The three most useless things to a pilot are the
altitude above you, runway behind you, and a tenth of a
second ago.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Man joined a big Multi National Company as a
trainee. On his first day he dialed the pantry and shouted
into the phone, "Get me a coffee quickly!"
The voice from the other side responded,"You fool
you've dialed the wrong extension! Do you know who you're
talking to, dumbo?"
"No", replied the trainee.
"It's the Managing Director of the company, you fool!"
The man shouted back, "And do you know who YOU are
talking to, you fool?"
"No.", replied the Managing Director.
"Good!", replied the trainee and put down the
phone!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
10 REASONS WHY BEER SHOULD BE SERVED AT WORK
01. It's an incentive to show up.
02. It leads to more honest communications.
03. It reduces complaints about low pay.
04. Employees tell management what they think, not what
management wants to hear.
05. Increase job satisfaction because if you have a bad job,
you don't care.
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 59 1 Jan 2001
06. It eliminates vacations because people would rather come
to work.
07. Bosses are more likely to hand out raises when they are
wasted.
08. Employees work later since there's no longer a need to
relax at the bar.
09. Employees no longer need coffee to sober up.
10. Sitting on the copy machine will no longer be seen as
"gross."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The bank manager was in the final stages of hiring a
cashier and was down to two final applicants -- one of which
would get the job.
The first one interviewed was from a small college
in upstate New York. A nice young man, but a bit timid.
Then he called for the second man, "Jim Johnson!"
Up stepped a burley young man who seemed quite sure of
himself. "He looks like he can take care of any situation,"
thought the manager, and decided, there and then, to hire
him.
He turned to the first applicant and told him he
could go and they would let him know.
Turning to Johnson, he said, "Now Jim, I like the
way you carry yourself -- that's an important asset for the
job as cashier. However, you must be precise. I noticed you
did not fill out the place on the application where we asked
your formal education."
Jim looked a little confused so the manager said,
"Where did you get your financial education?"
"Oh," replied Jim -- "Yale."
"That's very good ... excellent. You're hired!"
"Now that you're working for us, what do you prefer
to be called?"
Jim answered "I don't care... Yim... or Mr. Yonson."
Courtesy: * Origin: Top Hat 2 BBS (1:343/41)
~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 60 1 Jan 2001
=================================================================
QUESTION OF THE WEEK
=================================================================
*How many fido domains are on the Internet???
<Find answer in"ANSWER" column>.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 61 1 Jan 2001
=================================================================
ANSWERS OF THE WEEK
=================================================================
By: Jerry Schwartz
To: All
Re: Another statistic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, All...
A search for "fidonet" on iwon.com gives 84,556 hits. That's almost
three times more hits than there ever were nodes.
Somebody knows we're out here.
Regards,
Jerry
mailto:jerryschwartz@comfortable.com
http://www.writebynight.com
--- Msged/NT TE 05
* Origin: Write by Night (1:142/928)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(19753) Wed 27 Dec 00 1:52a
By: Steven Leeman
To: All
Re: Re: Fidonet.be / fido.be
----------------------------------------------------------------------
et voila.... finally answer from the one "above" :-)
Ward go home! :-)
=====================================================================
* Forwarded by Steven Leeman (2:292/624) * Area : NETMAIL (Netmail) *
From : Tom Jennings, 2:292/624.666 (Tuesday December 26 2000 11:43) *
To : Steven Leeman * Subj : Re: Fidonet.be / fido.be
=====================================================================
From: tomj@wps.com To: skynet@online.be
As long as it's not money-making or restricted access you have my
permission to use my two trademarks, Fido and FidoNet, as long as what
you're referring to is the open FidoNet network and protocols etc.
Have fun!
tomj
~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 62 1 Jan 2001
=================================================================
NOTICES
=================================================================
By: Ross Cassell
To: All
Re: FIDOPOLS
St:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
* Crossposted in Z1_ELECTION
* Crossposted in FIDONEWS
Hello All!
FIDOPOLS has been restored to the backbone, contact your uplink
for a link.
As promised work shall begin within a couple weeks on a z1 pol
document of sorts with sysop participation.
==
Ross
E-mail: rcassell@home.com ICQ = 5305939
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Carol Shenkenberger
To: All
Re: Submission?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, new to the echo. Lets see if this works <g>.
24DEC2000
Hi y'all!
There's a new flag that has been proposed which I think we can all
use. It's the RVIA flag. Now the author intended to use it as a
regular flag but I'm looking and as a 'comment' flag, that works
without breaking anything.
What is it? It's a 'Route Via' flag. It's use in R13 for now will be
to show an alternate 'route' for those nodes who get their main feed
from outside their local net. This does NOT mean a node can abandon
contacting their listed hub/NC for netmail. It will only be used if
your NC/hub goes down and no other path to reach you is known.
A sysop may also chose to use this information to direct specific
routing to that node with the RVIA listing, if they so wish but no one
is *required* to do so. The NC/hub specifically is NOT required to
use it under any circumstances.
A sysop may have only 1 RVIA listing. Use for now in R13 will be:
,U,RVIA:#.###.###
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 63 1 Jan 2001
For example: ,U,RVIA:1:2613/404
Which will mean that node draws from 1:2613/404 direct for echomail
and that their uplink passes netmail to them, if it arrives at their
site.
This listing is allowed for net feed sites, but is intended primarily
for end nodes.
Grin, in R13, go-fur-it!
xxcarol R13C
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TRADEMARK NOTICE
DR>> FYI, the FidoNet name is a Trade Mark owned by Tom
DR>> Jennings. No NET, REGION or ZONE owns any trademarks on
DR>> any names.
MM>
MM> Is it? A number of people have done a trademark search and not
MM> found any reference to a Fidonet trademark.
All I can say is that these "number of people" did not
try very hard
http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=q2b2uv.2.1
This came up as a result of a search of FidoNet at U.S.
Trademark Electronic Search System. And here is what it
says:
Word Mark FIDONET Goods and Services IC 009. US 038. G & S: COMPUTER
PROGRAMS AND ACCOMPANYING USER MANUALS. FIRST USE: 19840618. FIRST USE
IN COMMERCE: 19840915 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial
Number 73591035 Filing Date March 31, 1986 Published for Opposition
May 26, 1987 Registration Number 1452977 Registration Date August 18,
1987 Owner (REGISTRANT) JENNINGS, THOMAS DANIEL DBA FIDO SOFTWARE
INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 2269 MARKET STREET #118 SAN FRANCISCO
CALIFORNIA 94114 Attorney of Record THOMAS M. MARSHALL Type of Mark
TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
Thanks!
Dale
... Ideal Australian wife: Dumb, rich, nymphomaniac who owns a pub.
--- DVM Editor that I am testing here at 1:379/0-1-45
* Origin: telnet://HarborWebs.com (1:379/1.0)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(20320) Fri 29 Dec 00 3:53p
By: michael kleerbaum
To: All
Re: New Nodelist
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 64 1 Jan 2001
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi All,
016-HUB, Rotselaar 2:292/10060 0032-16-580862
skynetbbs2.dyns.cx, Rotselaar 2:292/624 0032-16-580862
SkyNet Bbs Line2, Rotselaar 2:292/626 0032-16-581241
Status Node Nodeliste NODELIST.364
Sysop Steven Leeman
Flags CM,XA,ZYX,V90S,V120H,X75,ITX:
skynetbbs@softhome.net,IBN,ITN:10023
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The "Hold" is gone and Steven is still in the new nodelist.
I want to thank all nodes and points in the USA, Canada, Germany,
Belgium and the rest of FidoWorld for supporting Steven to become a
"normal" Node again.
Michael
--- CrossPoint v3.30.018 R
* Origin: www.was-ist-fido.de: Sag's weiter! (2:2432/203)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 65 1 Jan 2001
=================================================================
FIDONET BY INTERNET
=================================================================
------------------------------------------------------
*Fidonet-related sites
. -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- .
| FIDONET-RELATED SITES |
` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- '
Last update: December 29, 2000
FidoNet
Homepage: http://www.fidonet.org
FidoNews: http://www.fidonews.org [HTML]
ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/
ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/
Echolist: http://www.baltimoremd.com/echolist/
Echomail links: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidonet/fidoip.html
SDS Files: http://fidobbs.dk/download (Web Access to SDS)
FTSC page: http://www.ftsc.org/
General: http://www.writebynight.com/fidonet.html
Zone 1: http://www.z1.fidonet.org
Region 10: http://www.r10.org
Net 102 http://home.earthlink.net/~kayshapero/net102.htm
Net 103: http://www.webworldinc.com/club103/
Net 203: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687/net203index.html
Region 11: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/
Net 2410: http://www.vector.11.com/net2410/
Region 12: http://sparkys.dyndns.org
Region 13: http://www.net264.org/r13.htm
Net 264: http://www.net264.org/
Net 275: http://www.homershut.net/~mahoover/net275/
Region 14: http://www.ouijabrd.com/region14
Net 282: http://www.rxn.com/~net282/
Region 15: <vacant>
Region 16: <vacant>
Region 17: http://www.region17.net
Net 140: http://www.nwstar.com/~net140
Region 18: http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/
Region 19: http://bise.tzo.com/r19
Net 124: http://www.dallasinet.com/net124
http://texoma.net/~flv
Net 130: http://www.startext.net/homes/net130
Net 393: http://www.chatter.com/~wb/
Zone 2: http://www.z2.fidonet.org
ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/zone2 (Z2 nodelists etc.)
Region 20: http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
Region 23: http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)
Region 24: http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
http://www.was-ist-fido.de/
Fido-IP: http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German)
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 66 1 Jan 2001
Region 25: http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/
Region 26: http://www.nemesis.ie
REC 26: http://www.nrgsys.com/orb
Region 27: http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm
Region 29: http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/ (French)
http://Welcome.to/skynetbbs/
Region 30: http://www.fidonet.ch (German)
? Region 33: http://www.fidoitalia.net (Italian)
Region 34: http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm (Spanish)
REC34: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/
Region 36: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/
Region 38: http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html
Region 41: http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)
Region 42: http://www.fido.cz
! Net422: http://www.fido.sk (Slovak/English)
Region 50: http://www.fido7.com/ (Russian)
Net 5010: http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5015: http://www.fido.nnov.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5028: HTTP://5028.nordnet.ru/
Net 5030: http://kenga.ru/fido/ (Russian & English)
Net 5049: http://www.n5049.z2.fidonet.org (English/Russian)
Net 5074: http://www.z2.n5074.fidonet.net
?? Net 5085: http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian)
Zone 3: http://www.z3.fidonet.org
Zone 4:
Region 80: http://fidobrasil.8m.com (Portuguese)
Region 90:
Net 904: http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)
Zone 5: http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/
Zone 6: http://www.z6.fidonet.org
Region 65: http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html
(Chinese)
Fidonet Via Internet Hubs
See also: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html
a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email
address. The email is translated as follows
firstlast@osirusoft.com will automatically route to the
appropriate individual's email. Anyone in this list will
also receive routed notice of this feature. In my case, it
would still be joejared@osirusoft.com, but you get the idea.
Also, as information is provided to me, I will be adding a
latency field to each node, which is defined as the maximum
time between when the message is received, and when it is
sent on to other nodes, or available to be sent onward,
defined in minutes. A latency of ! implies that there is an
immediate response, and an attempt to deliver immediately
after processing, or a "MinuteMail System", as it were.
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 67 1 Jan 2001
v-email flag firstnamelastname@osirusoft.com
| email address or
Node# | Operator | Facilities (*) | Speed,| Basic Rate
| | |latency|
-----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
Zone 1 | | | |
10/3 | Brenda Donovan | FTP,UUE,BinkP | 384K,30| n/c
10/345 @ Todd Cochrane | FTP,BinkP,VMOT | T1,! | n/c
13/25 @ Jim Balcom | FTP | 56k | $20mo.
18/500 @ Ross Cassell | FTP, BinkP |128K+,!| n/c
19/68 | Ben Ritchey | UUE:BFDS | 33.6k | n/c
103/5 @ Mark Luetger | BinkP | 384k,!| n/c
103/153 @ Michael Box | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
103/301 @ Joe Jared | BinkP,FTP,NFS | 384k,!| n/c
103/401 @ Warren Bonner | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
105/8 | Russ Johnson | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k | n/c
105/72 @ Larry James | FTP, BinkP | aDSL | $50/yr
106/1 @ Steve Loupe | BinkP, FTP | 128k | ???
106/6018 | Lawrence Garvin | FTP, VMoT | aDSL,60| n/c
107/453 @ Jeffrey Estevez| FTP,BinkP,VMoT,UUE| 56k,60| $10 mo.
140/1 @ Bob Seaborn | FTP,BinkP | T3,30 | $5/$16
167/133 | Stephen Monteith | BinkP | 128k+ | n/c
211/417 @ Korombos | BinkP,UUE,FTP | T1 | n/c
220/10 | groberts@nexusbbs.net |BinkP,FTP,UUE|1.5M+ | n/c
218/109 @ Matt Munson | BinkP,UUE | 33.6k | n/c
246/160 @ Mason Vye | FTP, UUE | 56K | n/c
249/116 | Carl Austin Bennett | FTP, UUE |ADSL,60 | n/c
280/169 | Brian Greenstreet | FTP | 33.6 | $2mo.
342/3 @ Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP | 128K+ | n/c
395/670 | Arthur Stark | BinkD,FTP | CABLE | n/c
379/1 @ Dale Ross | FTP, BinkP,UUE | 256K+,! n/c
396/1 @ John Souvestre | FTP,VMoT | T1,10 | $5/mo
396/45 | Marc Lewis | UUE | 33.6 | $26/yr
2604/104 @ Jim Mclaughlin | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 33.6 | $1mo
2613/404 @ David Moufarrege | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+,!| n/c
2624/306 | David Calafrancesco | VMoT | 33.6 | n/c
3407/4 @ jyates@bsdi.ldl.net | UUE,FTP | 28.8 | n/c
3632/84 | Robert Todd |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
3651/9 @ Jerry Gause | FTP,VMoT | 33.6 | $3/$6
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 2 |
20/11 | Henrik Lindhe | BinkP | ??? | n/c
31/1 | Gabriel Plutzar | BinkP | T1+ | n/c
203/600 | Mikael Karlsson | UUE | 64k | n/c
221/360 @ Tommi Koivula | BinkP,UUE | ??? | n/c
236/205 @ Michael Kaaber | BinkP | ??? | n/c
246/2098 | Volker Imre | BinkP | ??? | n/c
280/1601 @ Jeroen VanDeLeur | FTP,UUE | 64k | n/c
292/620 | Eddy Missoul | VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 64k |N/C
292/624 | Steven Leeman | UUE | 64k | N/C
292/907 | Bart Verhaeghe | BinkP,VMoT,UUE | 64K | n/c
292/2003 | Eric Vaneberck | BinkP | 768k | n/c
301/1 | Peter Witschi | BinkP | 768k | n/c
332/807 | Roberto Mascolo | BinkP | ??? | n/c
335/535 @ Mario Mure | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k | n/c
335/610 | Gino Lucrezi | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 68 1 Jan 2001
344/201 | Julio Garcia | BinkP | ??? | n/c
346/3 @ Carlos Navarro | UUE | ??? | n/c
382/100 | Sinisa Burina | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Ofir Michaeli & | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Marius Kaizerman | BinkP | ??? | n/c
423/81 | Milos Bajer | BinkP | ??? | n/c
465/204 | Va Milushnikov | BinkP | 33.6k | n/c
469/84 | Max Masyutin | VMoT | 256k | n/c
480/112 | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k | n/c
550/4077 | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE | ----- | n/c
2411/413 @ Dennis Dittrich | UUE,BinkP | 64k | n/c
2446/301 @ Lothar Behet | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP | 64K | n/c
2474/275 | Christian Emig | UUE | 64k | unkn
5030/115 | Andrey Podkolzin | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5100/8 | Egons Bush | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5020/1159 | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 3
633/260 @ Malcolm Miles | FTP,BinkP | 64K | n/c
640/954 | Rick Van Ruth | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
774/605 @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 4
801/161 @ Renato Zambon | UUE | 33.6 |n/c
905/100 | Fabian Gervan | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k | n/c
902/18 | Javier Tejedor | UUE | 33,6 | n/c
--
* FTP = Internet File Transfer Protocol
* VMoT = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
* UUE = uuencode<->email type transfers
* BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks
* NFS = Linux Networking
----------------------------------------------
Fidonet oriented news servers
news.osirusoft.com
news.tardis.net
Fidonet oriented chat rooms.
room #fidonet 5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays
irc.osirusoft.com (Peers wanted)
----------------------------------------------
Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
Joe Jared, 1:103/301, joejared@osirusoft.com. All email addresses
here for purpose of corresponding with fidonet members about
obtaining a feed. Improper use of the virtual email addresses, and
most especially, email addressed to blockme@relays.osirusoft.com
will be considered a request to be blocked by my open relay spam
stopper at http://relays.osirusoft.com
FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 69 1 Jan 2001
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FIDONEWS 18-01 Page 70 1 Jan 2001
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