=========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-07-94 (11:31) Number: 1176 From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE To: DON BIVENS Recvd: NO Subj: GAYLE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Don was saying to James on 06 Mar 94 00:41:00 << -=> Quoting Daniel North to James White <=- DN> On 03-03-94, JAMES WHITE wrote to ROBERT MCKAY: JW> I took this echo back when I was reading/responding to Gayle JW> Riplinger's _New Age Bible Versions_. Sadly, I've become the JW> nation's expert on Gayle, since I was the last person she debated JW> (she won't do that anymore). A large portion of my mail these day JW> has to do with Riplinger's book. < sigh > DB>Wow! What kind of info can you give on this woman? I heard that she h DB>credentials were in home-ec, is this so? Yes, that is correct. Bob and Gretchen Passantino looked into that, and found her degrees were in home economics and interior design. I'm sure she bakes great cookies and her front room is probably immaculate. DB>There's a KJV-only, rabid-fundie, old time Church of God guy here in DB>Charlotte DB>who has been using her book for the subject matter of his weely radio DB>broad- DB>casts. It would be nice to have something to counter this insanity wit DB>Oh, in case you keep up with the news, this same preacher is the one wh DB>raised all the stink about Barney being a "New Age Messiah". Sheesh! That doesn't surprise me much. Gayle won't debate anymore, but if that fellow in Charlotte would be willing to do so, get us in touch! I can send him, and you, the tape of the two programs I did with Riplinger back in November. They turned out to be the last "debates" she was willing to do. James>>> * Wave Rider 1.10 # 155 * ... God is to be feared. --Psalm 76:7 --- Blue Wave/Max v1.10 [NR] * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-08-94 (21:20) Number: 1243 From: DANIEL NORTH Refer#: NONE To: JAMES WHITE Recvd: NO Subj: GAYLE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 03-07-94, JAMES WHITE wrote to DON BIVENS: JW> Yes, that is correct. Bob and Gretchen Passantino looked into that, JW> and found her degrees were in home economics and interior design. JW> I'm sure she bakes great cookies and her front room is probably JW> immaculate. Yes, and Gretchen (side note) is also one of our writing professors at Concordia University in Irvine. She's a pretty nice person, but a harder prof (so I hear (g)). To your comment: ROFL. JW> That doesn't surprise me much. Gayle won't debate anymore, but if JW> that fellow in Charlotte would be willing to do so, get us in touch! JW> I can send him, and you, the tape of the two programs I did with JW> Riplinger back in November. They turned out to be the last JW> "debates" she was willing to do. I might be interested, too. Also, Jeff Spector might want to talk to you about the KJV and other, more reliable translations of the Bible. Check what I said in MORMONISM and see if you agree with what I wrote. In Christ...Dan * Freddie 1.2.5 * Yes, God does answer all prayers, but sometimes the best answer is "No."-Family Circus --- * Origin: Christian Central - Garden Grove, Ca. (714)971-1564 (8:3200/207) =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-07-94 (18:51) Number: 1248 From: ROBERT MCKAY Refer#: NONE To: DON BIVENS Recvd: NO Subj: GAYLE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- DB>Oh, in case you keep up with the news, this same preacher is the one who DB>raised all the stink about Barney being a "New Age Messiah". Sheesh! ACtually, there is an outfit called the Church of Barney Dinosaur, Transcendent. ___ X QMPro 1.01 11-1111 X If God meant it that way, it would've been Adam & Steve. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-11-94 (00:44) Number: 1474 From: DEBRA BOUEY Refer#: NONE To: JAMES WHITE Recvd: NO Subj: GAYLE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On (07 Mar 94) James White wrote to Don Bivens... JW> Yes, that is correct. Bob and Gretchen Passantino looked into that, JW> and found her degrees were in home economics and interior design. I'm JW> sure she bakes great cookies and her front room is probably immaculate. Her fabric choices are probably well-coordinated and prime too, but what does THAT do toward her credentials as a Biblical scholar I wonder...;-) IC, Debra +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ | NETMAIL> FamilyNet 8:200/403 / Fido 1:396/1.15 | | INTERNET> debra.bouey@ozonehole.com / 74241.3502@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ ... The truth of our faith will be tested by our lives. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: Deb's Point (8:200/403) SEEN-BY: 8/0 14 2000 100/0 200/0 403 3000/13 3200/207 7000/43 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-15-94 (20:30) Number: 1740 From: ROBERT MCKAY Refer#: NONE To: DEBRA BOUEY Recvd: NO Subj: GAYLE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- DB>Her fabric choices are probably well-coordinated and prime too, DB>but what does THAT do toward her credentials as a Biblical scholar DB>I wonder...;-) Reminds me of a book in the UMI library on "*Book fo Mormon archaeology". It's written by an artist. :+{> I am not qualified to speak authoritatively on anything that I can't find in Strong, Vine, Zodhiates, or whomever. I also make sure that I don't go beyond this. Some people who have, apparently, even fewer qualifications believe themselves perfectly capable of discoursing at great length and with great dogmatism on everything under the sun. ___ X QMPro 1.01 11-1111 X Celibacy is not hereditary. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-17-94 (23:22) Number: 1914 From: DARYL WESTFALL Refer#: NONE To: ROBERT MCKAY Recvd: NO Subj: GAYLE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Re: Robert Mckay's message to Debra Bouey, * entitled "Gayle" on 03-16-94 07:28. RM> Some people who have, apparently, even fewer RM> qualifications believe themselves perfectly capable of discoursing at RM> great length and with great dogmatism on everything under the sun. (Nodding head furiously in agreement.) I have been wanting to make up a list of timely tips for curious Christians, with statements such as the following: * The words "HOLY BIBLE" on the front cover of a Bible will NOT make your Bible any holier. * Scofield Reference notes are NOT a part of the inspired text. * N.I.V. is a Bible translation; H.I.V. is a virus. The King James Version is a Bible Translation; "James King" is not, neither is "St. James." * Christ did not speak in red letters. * There is no such thing as an "anointed" Bible; there IS such a thing as an "annotated" Bible. * The apostles did not write, nor use, the King James Version. * The only thing that Gayle Riplinger's book has in common with accepted scholarly works on Biblical translation is a cover, pages and ink. Ciao! Daryl ... Straw should make no pact with fire. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Renegade v1-2 Exp * Origin: Cross Roads BBS, Phoenix, Az. (602)482-8577 (8:1015/50) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-18-94 (12:12) Number: 1980 From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE To: DARYL WESTFALL Recvd: NO Subj: GAYLE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Daryl was saying to Robert on 17 Mar 94 23:22:16 << DW>(Nodding head furiously in agreement.) I have been wanting to make up DW>list of timely tips for curious Christians, with statements such as the DW>following: DW> * The words "HOLY BIBLE" on the front cover of a Bible will DW> NOT make your Bible any holier. But it will make YOU feel holier while you carry it. DW> * Scofield Reference notes are NOT a part of the inspired text. Really?? Yikes! DW> * N.I.V. is a Bible translation; H.I.V. is a virus. DW> The King James Version is a Bible Translation; "James King" DW> is not, neither is "St. James." Ssshhhhh! Gayle hasn't thought of paralleling NIV and HIV.....YET. DW> * Christ did not speak in red letters. To the stake with him!!! DW> * There is no such thing as an "anointed" Bible; there IS such DW> a thing as an "annotated" Bible. < ROFL > DW> * The apostles did not write, nor use, the King James Version. I see the liberals have already ruined you. DW> * The only thing that Gayle Riplinger's book has in common with DW> accepted scholarly works on Biblical translation is a cover, DW> pages and ink. You forgot one: verbosity. James>>> * Wave Rider 1.10 # 155 * ... "Piccard, why are you putting iron shavings in Data's head?" --- Blue Wave/Max v1.10 [NR] * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-18-94 (19:22) Number: 2163 From: CHUCK GREEN Refer#: NONE To: ROBERT MCKAY Recvd: NO Subj: GAYLE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- RM> X QMPro 1.01 11-1111 X Celibacy is not hereditary. I forgot about your memorable taglines. (Has it been *that* long?) BTW, your posts themselves are usually pretty good too. ___ X RM 1.3 00231 X --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-19-94 (23:34) Number: 2321 From: DEBRA BOUEY Refer#: NONE To: ROBERT MCKAY Recvd: NO Subj: GAYLE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On (15 Mar 94) Robert McKay wrote to Debra Bouey... RM> Reminds me of a book in the UMI library on "*Book fo Mormon RM> archaeology". It's written by an artist. :+{> Has nice artwork, huh? RM> I am not qualified to speak authoritatively on anything that I can't RM> find in Strong, Vine, Zodhiates, or whomever. I also make sure that I Zodhiates? I have a copy of the H/G study Bible myself--I like having access to the quick references in the back. RM> don't go beyond this. Some people who have, apparently, even fewer RM> qualifications believe themselves perfectly capable of discoursing at RM> great length and with great dogmatism on everything under the sun. RM> Aye, I've seen Strong's used to grind "root" words to powder for the sake of "argument". From what I can understand in my limited knowledge of Koine Greek, and particularly Biblical Hebrew, the exact definition of a number of the "root" words are sometimes nebulous, leaving us to depend on context and the accumulative evidences of Scripture for a proper understanding. Debra, 74241.3502@compuserve.com ... Faith without works is dead. Works without faith is equally dead. Many will say "Lord, Lord"... --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: Deb's Point (8:200/403) SEEN-BY: 8/0 14 2000 100/0 200/0 403 3000/13 3200/207 7000/43 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-08-94 (21:19) Number: 1242 From: DANIEL NORTH Refer#: NONE To: JAMES WHITE Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 03-07-94, JAMES WHITE wrote to DANIEL NORTH: JW> Nope, and little need to, either. Riplinger is 99% air. There is JW> nothing scholarly, or serious, about the book. It's like trying to JW> deal with a Jack Chick comic book. You give Chick that much credit? (g) In Christ...Dan * Freddie 1.2.5 * Yes, God does answer all prayers, but sometimes the best answer is "No."-Family Circus --- * Origin: Christian Central - Garden Grove, Ca. (714)971-1564 (8:3200/207) =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-07-94 (18:50) Number: 1247 From: ROBERT MCKAY Refer#: NONE To: JAMES WHITE Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- JW>Nope, and little need to, either. Riplinger is 99% air. There is nothing JW>scholarly, or serious, about the book. It's like trying to deal with a JW>Jack Chick comic book. Sounds like Riplinger and Ruckman are clones. :+{> ___ X QMPro 1.01 11-1111 X Who are you to reply against God? (Rom. 9:20) --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-04-94 (23:23) Number: 1305 From: DEBRA BOUEY Refer#: NONE To: ROBERT MCKAY Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On (01 Mar 94) Robert McKay wrote to All... RM> And with that, I leave us all to see what happens. Brave soul, 'tain't ya'? ;-) Debra +--------------------------------------------------+ | NETMAIL--> FamilyNet 8:200/403 / Fido 1:396/1.15 | | INTERNET--> debra.bouey@ozonehole.com | +--------------------------------------------------+ ... Conduct and conversation are the grand test of character. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: Deb's Point (8:200/403) SEEN-BY: 8/0 14 2000 100/0 200/0 403 3000/13 3200/207 7000/43 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-10-94 (21:13) Number: 1365 From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE To: ROBERT MCKAY Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Robert was saying to James on 07 Mar 94 18:50:00 << JW>Nope, and little need to, either. Riplinger is 99% air. There is n JW>scholarly, or serious, about the book. It's like trying to deal wit JW>Jack Chick comic book. RM>Sounds like Riplinger and Ruckman are clones. :+{> Ruckman is more SOLID than Riplinger, if THAT tells you anything. Sadly, after more than 10 years of work in Mormonism, about six years of work in Roman Catholicism, numerous books, scholarly debates, etc., it looks like I'm finally becoming nationally known: as the greatest living expert on Gayle Riplinger's _New Age Bible Versions_. I've been invited to speak at a conference with folks like Norm Geisler, Craig Branch, and Eric Pement in September, and on what? Yup, Gayle Riplinger. < sigh > God *does* have a sense of humor! (: James>>> * Wave Rider 1.10 # 155 * ... Alleluia! For our Lord God Almighty reigns. --Rev. 19:6 --- Blue Wave/Max v1.10 [NR] * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-11-94 (23:27) Number: 1383 From: DANIEL NORTH Refer#: NONE To: PAUL THOMAS Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 03-10-94, PAUL THOMAS wrote to DANIEL NORTH: PT> Is this "Gender Specific"? (G) We'll have to find out what *she* says. (G) In Christ...Dan * Freddie 1.2.5 * Yes, God does answer all prayers, but sometimes the best answer is "No."-Family Circus --- * Origin: Christian Central - Garden Grove, Ca. (714)971-1564 (8:3200/207) =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-14-94 (08:18) Number: 1582 From: CHUCK GREEN Refer#: NONE To: ROBERT MCKAY Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- RM> Through the good offices of James White and his Pros Apologian BBS RM> (I'm trying flattery today; I browbeat people tomorrow ), I am RM> now here. How do you find the time with all the other conferences you contribute to and a moderatorship on NewLife? Anyway, good to read you here too. Are you also getting Apologia? Lots of good discussion on Mormonism there. ___ X RM 1.3 00231 X The only right a sinner has is to go to hell. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-15-94 (20:24) Number: 1737 From: ROBERT MCKAY Refer#: NONE To: JAMES WHITE Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- JW>RM>Sounds like Riplinger and Ruckman are clones. :+{> JW>Ruckman is more SOLID than Riplinger, if THAT tells you anything. Oy! ___ X QMPro 1.01 11-1111 X Boot, n: Footware worn when kicking computer --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-15-94 (20:25) Number: 1738 From: ROBERT MCKAY Refer#: NONE To: DEBRA BOUEY Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- DB> RM> And with that, I leave us all to see what happens. DB>Brave soul, 'tain't ya'? ;-) I have been informed that bravery and foolhardiness are indistinguishable. ___ X QMPro 1.01 11-1111 X C-130 Hercules --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-15-94 (20:27) Number: 1739 From: ROBERT MCKAY Refer#: NONE To: CHUCK GREEN Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- CG>RM> Through the good offices of James White and his Pros Apologian BBS CG>RM> (I'm trying flattery today; I browbeat people tomorrow ), I am CG>RM> now here. CG>How do you find the time with all the other conferences you contribute CG>to and a moderatorship on NewLife? Anyway, good to read you here too. CG>Are you also getting Apologia? Lots of good discussion on Mormonism CG>there. Well, I just got booted off of the entire Intelec network for having the temerity to post documented proof that, contrary to the net head's claim, Mormons *were* running me down behind my back (they thought), so I've got a little more time. Plus so far James' board hasn't had enough traffic for me to call more than once or twice a week. I *thought* I'd selected Apologia here - that was in fact one reason I started calling Pros Apologian. But I've gotten nothing from that conference, so perhaps not. I'll have to check. ___ X QMPro 1.01 11-1111 X My way, your way, the right way, and the Air Force way. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-17-94 (19:41) Number: 1907 From: DANIEL NORTH Refer#: NONE To: ROBERT MCKAY Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 03-15-94, ROBERT MCKAY wrote to DEBRA BOUEY: RM> I have been informed that bravery and foolhardiness are RM> indistinguishable. I've been told that they are one and the same. (g) In Christ...Dan * Freddie 1.2.5 * Yes, God does answer all prayers, but sometimes the best answer is "No."-Family Circus --- * Origin: Christian Central - Garden Grove, Ca. (714)971-1564 (8:3200/207) =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-16-94 (11:40) Number: 1910 From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE To: ROBERT MCKAY Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Robert was saying to Chuck on 15 Mar 94 20:27:02 << RM>I *thought* I'd selected Apologia here - that was in fact one reason I RM>started calling Pros Apologian. But I've gotten nothing from that RM>conference, so perhaps not. I'll have to check. It's running 25+ messsages a day, so you're probably not set up properly. You'll have to check it. James>>> * Wave Rider 1.10 # 155 * ... Abortion: Killing quietly involves no less guilt. --- Blue Wave/Max v1.10 [NR] * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-20-94 (00:00) Number: 2164 From: CHUCK GREEN Refer#: NONE To: ROBERT MCKAY Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- RM> Well, I just got booted off of the entire Intelec network for having RM> the temerity to post documented proof that, contrary to the net RM> head's claim, Mormons *were* running me down behind my back (they RM> thought), so I've got a little more time. Plus so far James' board RM> hasn't had enough traffic for me to call more than once or twice a RM> week. To some conference hosts, nothing is as inflammatory or off-topic as the truth backed with evidence. I almost got kicked off a Fido conference recently for asking the conference host there too many questions about the conference rules. He told me my queries were off-topic and that I would be removed if I didn't stop asking him questions. RM> I *thought* I'd selected Apologia here - that was in fact one reason RM> I started calling Pros Apologian. But I've gotten nothing from that RM> conference, so perhaps not. I'll have to check. The message traffic there is about 100-200 messages per week, so you would know it if you were getting it. I hope you get it sorted out soon. James has been having some interesting discussions there with Mormons. ___ X RM 1.3 00231 X God's redemption is as vast as the sweep of sin. -Van Til --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-19-94 (23:29) Number: 2320 From: DEBRA BOUEY Refer#: NONE To: ROBERT MCKAY Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On (15 Mar 94) Robert McKay wrote to Debra Bouey... RM> DB>Brave soul, 'tain't ya'? ;-) RM> RM> I have been informed that bravery and foolhardiness are RM> indistinguishable. Depends on which foxhole you're in I reckon ;). Brings back memories of an earlier encounter with some Ruckermaniacs a while back. Funny, because I happen to study primarily, albeit it _not_ exclusively, out of the KJV, but for different reasons than the usual so prevelant today. It's what we had to learn when I was in boarding school during my "formative" years [have I just "dated" my education? ] and I happen to have a penchant for Elizabethan english. Debra, 74241.3502@compuserve.com ... To say we will believe nothing unless we understand everything is poor philosophy! --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: Deb's Point (8:200/403) SEEN-BY: 8/0 14 2000 100/0 200/0 403 3000/13 3200/207 7000/43 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-21-94 (05:54) Number: 2546 From: DANIEL NORTH Refer#: NONE To: CHUCK GREEN Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 03-20-94, CHUCK GREEN wrote to ROBERT MCKAY: CG> The message traffic there is about 100-200 messages per week, so you CG> would know it if you were getting it. I hope you get it sorted out CG> soon. James has been having some interesting discussions there with CG> Mormons. I haven't had the opportunity to get back there and get on. The Mormons that come from MORMON don't like me very much. (g) In Christ...Dan * Freddie 1.2.5 * Yes, God does answer all prayers, but sometimes the best answer is "No."-Family Circus --- * Origin: Christian Central - Garden Grove, Ca. (714)971-1564 (8:3200/207) =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-26-94 (00:32) Number: 3926 From: DANIEL NORTH Refer#: NONE To: JAMES WHITE Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 03-23-94, JAMES WHITE wrote to DANIEL NORTH: JW> I wouldn't hurry: Gene Humbert is now moderating MORMON (yes, the JW> same Gene Humber that Malin banned last year), and he's already JW> bounced James Graves without even a warning. I won't be far behind, JW> I'm sure. Gene is a nice guy, but he's completely and totally JW> incapable of controlling his emotions, and is not fit to BBS, let JW> alone moderate. It's amazing how MORMON is self-destructing, but JW> then again, any enterprise dedicated to defending a lie can't last JW> forever. Look at FARMS! (: (chuckle) I'll last a day's worth of posts. (BG) In Christ...Dan * Freddie 1.2.5 * Yes, God does answer all prayers, but sometimes the best answer is "No."-Family Circus --- * Origin: Christian Central - Garden Grove, Ca. (714)971-1564 (8:3200/207) =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-26-94 (00:00) Number: 4108 From: CHUCK GREEN Refer#: NONE To: JAMES WHITE Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- JW> Gene is a nice guy, but he's completely and totally incapable of JW> controlling his emotions, and is not fit to BBS, let alone moderate. Isn't that sort of behavior the norm in cyberspace? Of course the government wants to take over the "Information Superhighway" (where lies and misinformation in enormous quantity can and do travel at the speed of light): megalomaniacs feel right at home here. The likes of you and Richard Bacon over at the Blue Banner (in Rowlett, TX) are the exceptions. <>> ___ X RM 1.3 00231 X there is none that does good, no, not one. (Rom 3:12) --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-26-94 (13:34) Number: 4109 From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE To: CHUCK GREEN Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Chuck said to James on 26 Mar 94 00:00:00 << JW> Gene is a nice guy, but he's completely and totally incapable of JW> controlling his emotions, and is not fit to BBS, let alone moderate CG>Isn't that sort of behavior the norm in cyberspace? Of course the CG>government wants to take over the "Information Superhighway" (where CG>lies and misinformation in enormous quantity can and do travel at the CG>speed of light): megalomaniacs feel right at home here. The likes of CG>you and Richard Bacon over at the Blue Banner (in Rowlett, TX) are the CG>exceptions. CG><>> < chuckle > Well, I don't know if it's the norm or not. It seems to be the norm for most KJV Only folks I've encountered, that's for certain. James>>> * Wave Rider 1.10 # 155 * ... Clara voce cogito --- Blue Wave/Max v1.10 [NR] * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-27-94 (07:16) Number: 5465 From: CHUCK GREEN Refer#: NONE To: JAMES WHITE Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- JW> < chuckle > Well, I don't know if it's the norm or not. It seems JW> to be the norm for most KJV Only folks I've encountered, that's for JW> certain. True. Any chance of getting Ralph Stokes to contribute to this conference? ___ X RM 1.3 00231 X --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-28-94 (13:09) Number: 6074 From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE To: CHUCK GREEN Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Chuck was saying to James on 27 Mar 94 07:16:05 << JW> < chuckle > Well, I don't know if it's the norm or not. It seems JW> to be the norm for most KJV Only folks I've encountered, that's for JW> certain. CG>True. Any chance of getting Ralph Stokes to contribute to this CG>conference? Actually that would be good. Ralph is a hard-head, but he's normally fairly calm. James>>> * Wave Rider 1.10 # 155 * ... The man of God loves the Scriptures. -- Psalm 119:97 --- Blue Wave/Max v1.10 [NR] * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-30-94 (13:04) Number: 8170 From: CHUCK GREEN Refer#: NONE To: JAMES WHITE Recvd: NO Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- JW>CG> Any chance of getting Ralph Stokes to contribute to this JW>CG> conference? JW> Actually that would be good. Ralph is a hard-head, but he's JW> normally fairly calm. He is pretty calm, come to think of it. He's not one for long threads, though. He presents his opinion, labels his opponents un-Christian, then quits. ___ X RM 1.3 00231 X --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 H: 7007/2 0 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-08-94 (02:21) Number: 1362 From: STEVEN LUKER Refer#: NONE To: JAMES WHITE Recvd: NO Subj: JACK CHICK Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- JW> There is JW> nothing scholarly, or serious, about the book. It's like trying to JW> deal with a Jack Chick comic book. Hey, watch it. Chick draws well. :-> Steven ... Don't argue with he who buys ink by the gallon. --- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR] * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-14-94 (23:34) Number: 1583 From: DARYL WESTFALL Refer#: NONE To: JAMES WHITE Recvd: NO Subj: RIPLINGER'S BOOK Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey, James! Books for the Greek class are selling pretty well. Any chance I might be able to get back on Pros? As for the Riplinger book, a few things of interest: 1. Gayle quotes Edwin Palmer, stating that "[his NIV] (her quotes) shows the great error that is so prevalent today in some orthodox circles, namely the error that regeneration depends upon faith ... (curious ellipses, Ms. Riplinger has deleted part of the quote) and that in order to be born again man must first accept Jesus as Savior." First off, Palmer was not referring to "his NIV" since the book she is quoting from was written in *1958*, before the NIV was a twinkle in anyone's eye. Secondly, Palmer is making a statement concerning the sovereignty of God the Holy Spirit, a statement which has been tampered with by Ms. Riplinger... The quote (with the missing words deleted) is: "...namely the error that regeneration depends upon faith AND NOT UPON GOD, and that in order to be born again man must first accept Jesus as Savior." Palmer is stating that regeneration depends upon God, and without God, no man can accept Jesus as Savior. Palmer's statement attacks Arminiamism/Decision Theology - which holds that man effects SOMETHING, contributes SOMETHING to his salvation...through the "Sinner's Prayer," "sincere repentance," etc. 2. The "New Age Bible" pictured on page 33...is a King James Version! (I can prove it...I have a copy!) 3. Patent dishonesty on page 57, in relation to the Lord's Prayer. "...which art in heaven..." does not occur at Luke 11 in *any* pre-5th century manuscript! It was the SCRIBES that INSERTED the words from Matthew 6:9-13 in an attempt to "harmonize" the accounts. Doesn't it seem strange that she would use the most UNFAMILIAR rendering of the Lord's Prayer? Because if she used Matthew 6:9-13, it would destroy her entire argument. (It does ANYWAY!) Of course, these are minor chinks into the paper wall which is Riplinger's book. James, I'd be interested in assisting you in researching her quotes, if you ever plan on writing a large-scale refutation. It really needs to be written. (By the way, did you ever get the ad I sent you for the book, "King James Version - Spawn of Satan"? Hee hee!) 1. The NT text used by the KJV translators was not the Textus Receptus, which was not published until over 10 years after the KJV was translated. 2. The KJV translators used Stephen's edition of Erasmus' Greek NT text. 3. Erasmus' was Catholic, and was opposed to the Reformation. 4. Erasmus dedicated his Greek NT to Pope Leo X, the Pope who condemned and excommunicated Martin Luther, the Reformer! No WONDER the Catholic dictionaries speak of the King James Version in such glowing terms. Hmmm...the KJV a CATHOLIC corruption? And what about old Charles Taze Russell? His foundational false doctrines were formulated using the KJV. Not to mention that the KJV is the official translation of the Mormon Church, Christian Science, the Branch Davidians, the United Pentecostal Church, the Way International and the Children of God? And come to think of it, which translation is quoted more often by New Agers than any other English translation? YOU GOT IT - the KJV! Methinks I could write me OWN conspiracy theory! Who knows, maybe I'll even find Jimmy Hoffa in the process! Muahahahaaaaa... Daryl --- Renegade v1-2 Exp * Origin: Cross Roads BBS, Phoenix, Az. (602)482-8577 (8:1015/50) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-15-94 (12:08) Number: 1679 From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE To: DARYL WESTFALL Recvd: NO Subj: RIPLINGER'S BOOK Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Daryl was saying to James on 14 Mar 94 23:34:31 << DW> Books for the Greek class are selling pretty well. Any chance I mi DW>able to get back on Pros? Back on Pros? Oh, sure, just give me a call and I'll upgrade you. DW> 2. The "New Age Bible" pictured on page 33...is a King James Versio DW> (I can prove it...I have a copy!) < chuckle > I'll have to check that out... DW> 3. Patent dishonesty on page 57, in relation to the Lord's Prayer. DW> "...which art in heaven..." does not occur at Luke 11 in *any* DW> pre-5th century manuscript! It was the SCRIBES that INSERTED th DW> words from Matthew 6:9-13 in an attempt to "harmonize" the accou DW> Doesn't it seem strange that she would use the most UNFAMILIAR DW> rendering of the Lord's Prayer? Because if she used Matthew 6:9 DW> it would destroy her entire argument. (It does ANYWAY!) Classic Riplingerisms. DW> Of course, these are minor chinks into the paper wall which is Ripling DW>book. James, I'd be interested in assisting you in researching her quo DW>you ever plan on writing a large-scale refutation. It really needs to DW>written. (By the way, did you ever get the ad I sent you for the book, DW>James Version - Spawn of Satan"? Hee hee!) Hmm, I think so....can't recall immediately. DW> 1. The NT text used by the KJV translators was not the Textus Rece DW> which was not published until over 10 years after the KJV was DW> translated. DW> 2. The KJV translators used Stephen's edition of Erasmus' Greek NT TR really doesn't differ, though, at least materially. DW> 3. Erasmus' was Catholic, and was opposed to the Reformation. DW> 4. Erasmus dedicated his Greek NT to Pope Leo X, the Pope who DW> condemned and excommunicated Martin Luther, the Reformer! All very true. Riplinger tried to make Erasmus into a great textual scholar on a program in Detroit recently, even saying that Erasmus used Luther's German Bible in creating his greek text! (Woops!) Of course, that was the same program in which she said I was "rude and crude" and a "heretic." Oh well.... James>>> * Wave Rider 1.10 # 155 * ... The truth of Yahweh is everlasting. --Psalm 117:2 --- Blue Wave/Max v1.10 [NR] * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-15-94 (20:47) Number: 1742 From: ROBERT MCKAY Refer#: NONE To: JAMES WHITE Recvd: NO Subj: RIPLINGER'S BOOK Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- JW>All very true. Riplinger tried to make Erasmus into a great textual JW>scholar on a program in Detroit recently, even saying that Erasmus used JW>Luther's German Bible in creating his greek text! (Woops!) I have great difficulty with the concept that a great textual scholar would construct an original text from a translation. It seems oxymoronic to me. ___ X QMPro 1.01 11-1111 X Who are you to reply against God? (Rom. 9:20) --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-16-94 (11:48) Number: 1912 From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE To: ROBERT MCKAY Recvd: NO Subj: RIPLINGER'S BOOK Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Robert was saying to James on 15 Mar 94 20:47:05 << JW>All very true. Riplinger tried to make Erasmus into a great textual JW>scholar on a program in Detroit recently, even saying that Erasmus RM>used JW>Luther's German Bible in creating his greek text! (Woops!) RM>I have great difficulty with the concept that a great textual scholar RM>would construct an original text from a translation. It seems RM>oxymoronic to me. Well, the worst part is that Luther translated the NT portion of the German Bible *from* Erasmus' Greek text. In other words, Riplinger, in her frantic attempt to find *anything* in her support, turns history on its head yet once again. James>>> * Wave Rider 1.10 # 155 * ... The True God: Creator of Time Itself. --Isaiah 41:4, 21-23 --- Blue Wave/Max v1.10 [NR] * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-17-94 (23:22) Number: 1913 From: DARYL WESTFALL Refer#: NONE To: JAMES WHITE Recvd: NO Subj: RIPLINGER'S BOOK Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Re: James White's message to Daryl Westfall, * entitled "Riplinger's Book" on 03-15-94 11:18. DW> Books for the Greek class are selling pretty well. Any chance I mi DW>able to get back on Pros? JW> Back on Pros? Oh, sure, just give me a call and I'll upgrade you. Thanks! BTW, the Seow books are in as well. Had a student pick up one today. JW> TR really doesn't differ, though, at least materially. If you want to get technical, however, the two texts differ in 287 places (According to "The Facts on the Textus Receptus and the King James Version," by Dr. Allen A. MacRae and Dr. Robert C. Newman. Hatfield, PA: Biblical School of Theology). JW> All very true. Riplinger tried to make Erasmus into a great textual JW> scholar on a program in Detroit recently, even saying that Erasmus JW> used Luther's German Bible in creating his greek text! (Woops!) Do *you* have that on *tape?* I LOVE IT! HEE HEE! JW> Of course, that was the same program in which she said I was "rude and JW> crude" and a "heretic." Oh well.... If you're a heretic and she's orthodox, then we're ALL in trouble. By the way, that reminds me. "GOD" paid us a visit at the store today. Or at least that's who he said he was. He stopped in to look at a Dake's Annotated Reference Bible. He stated that the Epistle of James was actually written by FOUR people (including the Old Testament Jacob), and what Jesus was writing on the ground (John 8:6) was actually a request to the Father for an answer to the accusations of the scribes and Pharisees. (You see, Jesus didn't have a clue as to what to say, and he had to bug "Dad" for the answer.) Also, he said that the world will end in the year 2004, since it represents 2000 years since the Epistle to the Romans was written (A.D. 4?) Then, when my head was turned, he tried to steal the Dake's by replacing the Bible in the box with his own and then closing the cover.) When this was discovered, he then complained that he should get the Bible for free since HE WROTE IT, and then stormed off. (I didn't get the chance to ask him what HE needed with a Bible anyway, being "God" and all, especially one with study notes.) I DID ponder the possibility of passing the info along to Dake Bible Sales for a great new slogan: "DAKE'S ANNOTATED REFERENCE BIBLE - The Bible God would use if he could afford it." Daryl ... Smote any key to continueth. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Renegade v1-2 Exp * Origin: Cross Roads BBS, Phoenix, Az. (602)482-8577 (8:1015/50) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-17-94 (23:22) Number: 1915 From: DARYL WESTFALL Refer#: NONE To: ROBERT MCKAY Recvd: NO Subj: RIPLINGER'S BOOK Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Re: Robert Mckay's message to James White, * entitled "Riplinger's Book" on 03-16-94 07:28. RM> I have great difficulty with the concept that a great textual scholar RM> would construct an original text from a translation. It seems RM> oxymoronic to me. Hold the "oxy" and you've got an agreement here! Ciao! Daryl ... To understand is to complicate. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Renegade v1-2 Exp * Origin: Cross Roads BBS, Phoenix, Az. (602)482-8577 (8:1015/50) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-18-94 (12:10) Number: 1979 From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE To: DARYL WESTFALL Recvd: NO Subj: RIPLINGER'S BOOK Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Daryl was saying to James on 17 Mar 94 23:22:14 << JW> TR really doesn't differ, though, at least materially. DW>If you want to get technical, however, the two texts differ in 287 plac DW>(According to "The Facts on the Textus Receptus and the King James DW>Version," DW>by Dr. Allen A. MacRae and Dr. Robert C. Newman. Hatfield, PA: Biblica DW>School of Theology). Is a list provided in that text? I'd like to see some. JW> All very true. Riplinger tried to make Erasmus into a great textu JW> scholar on a program in Detroit recently, even saying that Erasmus JW> used Luther's German Bible in creating his greek text! (Woops!) DW>Do *you* have that on *tape?* I LOVE IT! HEE HEE! Yup, sure do. BTW, do you have a spare copy of NABV that the ministry could get for a steal? Kevin Johnson is helping me do some research for a fuller response to the book. DW>By the way, that reminds me. "GOD" paid us a visit at the store today. DW>at least that's who he said he was. He stopped in to look at a Dake's DW>Annotated Reference Bible. He stated that the Epistle of James was DW>actually DW>written by FOUR people (including the Old Testament Jacob), and what DW>Jesus DW>was writing on the ground (John 8:6) was actually a request to the Fath DW>for an answer to the accusations of the scribes and Pharisees. (You se DW>Jesus didn't have a clue as to what to say, and he had to bug "Dad" for DW>answer.) Also, he said that the world will end in the year 2004, since DW>represents 2000 years since the Epistle to the Romans was written (A.D. Jeff Niell shared similar stories from his years at Berean. It must be a fascinating job! (: DW>Then, when my head was turned, he tried to steal the Dake's by replacin DW>the DW>Bible in the box with his own and then closing the cover.) When this w DW>discovered, he then complained that he should get the Bible for free si DW>HE WROTE IT, and then stormed off. (I didn't get the chance to ask him DW>what DW>HE needed with a Bible anyway, being "God" and all, especially one with DW>study notes.) I DID ponder the possibility of passing the info along t DW>Bible Sales for a great new slogan: "DAKE'S ANNOTATED REFERENCE DW>BIBLE - The DW>Bible God would use if he could afford it." < ROFL > You ought to see about putting God in jail. (: James>>> * Wave Rider 1.10 # 155 * ... The Spirit always speaks in harmony with the Word. --- Blue Wave/Max v1.10 [NR] * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-18-94 (19:36) Number: 2165 From: CHUCK GREEN Refer#: NONE To: DARYL WESTFALL Recvd: NO Subj: RIPLINGER'S BOOK Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- DW> I DID ponder the possibility of passing the info along to Dake Bible DW> Sales for a great new slogan: "DAKE'S ANNOTATED REFERENCE BIBLE - DW> The Bible God would use if he could afford it." I saw an ad for the Ryrie Study Bible about ten years ago or so that went something like this: "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the new leather-bound Ryrie Study Bible will last almost forever." It was accompanied by a first person account with photo of a Ryrie falling out of a car travelling at high speed. It seems that when the RSB was retrieved it was as good as new. ___ X RM 1.3 00231 X Draw me, unwilling, to make me willing. -Bernard --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-20-94 (23:53) Number: 2166 From: DARYL WESTFALL Refer#: NONE To: JAMES WHITE Recvd: NO Subj: RIPLINGER'S BOOK Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Re: James White's message to Daryl Westfall, * entitled "Re: Riplinger's Book" on 03-18-94 11:54. >> Daryl was saying to James on 17 Mar 94 23:22:14 << JW> Is a list provided in that text? I'd like to see some. The article does not; however, I think the authors might have a list. I'm not sure if the address in the article is still current. Would you like it? DW>Do *you* have that on *tape?* I LOVE IT! HEE HEE! JW> Yup, sure do. BTW, do you have a spare copy of NABV that the ministry JW> could get for a steal? Kevin Johnson is helping me do some research JW> for a fuller response to the book. I offered Kevin my copy to borrow. But I suggested that he might call Chick and request a review copy. (That's how I got mine.) JW> Jeff Niell shared similar stories from his years at Berean. It must JW> be a fascinating job! (: It's not a job I would wish on any Christian. JW> < ROFL > You ought to see about putting God in jail. (: BTW, the next day I found that the Bible had been stolen (the box was lying in another part of the store, empty). But no one had seen the man in the store at all that day. Hmmmm... ... "Q" - As fictional as the "Jesus" of the "scholars" that support it. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Renegade v1-2 Exp * Origin: Cross Roads BBS, Phoenix, Az. (602)482-8577 (8:1015/50) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-21-94 (11:26) Number: 2397 From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE To: DARYL WESTFALL Recvd: NO Subj: RIPLINGER'S BOOK Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Daryl was saying to James on 20 Mar 94 23:53:54 << JW> Is a list provided in that text? I'd like to see some. DW>The article does not; however, I think the authors might have a list. DW>not sure if the address in the article is still current. Would you lik Yes, I should track it down. DW>Do *you* have that on *tape?* I LOVE IT! HEE HEE! JW>Yup, sure do. BTW, do you have a spare copy of NABV that the ministry JW>could get for a steal? Kevin Johnson is helping me do some resear JW>for a fuller response to the book. DW>I offered Kevin my copy to borrow. But I suggested that he might call DW>and request a review copy. (That's how I got mine.) < chuckle > Review copy. That's rich. (: JW> Jeff Niell shared similar stories from his years at Berean. It mu JW> be a fascinating job! (: DW>It's not a job I would wish on any Christian. Like working in a church I imagine. JW> < ROFL > You ought to see about putting God in jail. (: DW>BTW, the next day I found that the Bible had been stolen (the box was l DW>in another part of the store, empty). But no one had seen the man in t DW>store at all that day. Hmmmm... Gracious. I had someone steal my Thompson Chain NIV from the hospital last year. Who in the world would steal a Bible? Yeah, I know: they must need it more than me, and all that. James>>> * Wave Rider 1.10 # 155 * ... Threw my root beer at Clinton; it was a draft; he dodged it. --- Blue Wave/Max v1.10 [NR] * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-22-94 (10:20) Number: 2653 From: LYNDA Refer#: NONE To: DARYL WESTFALL Recvd: NO Subj: RIPLINGER'S BOOK Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -=> Quoting Daryl Westfall to James White <=- DW> BTW, the next day I found that the Bible had been stolen (the box was DW> lying in another part of the store, empty). But no one had seen the DW> man in the store at all that day. Hmmmm... (Twilight Zone theme music in the background) Gee, maybe he WAS....nahhhh! (G) ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Renegade v1-2 Exp * Origin: Cross Roads BBS, Phoenix, Az. (602)482-8577 (8:1015/50) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-15-94 (20:45) Number: 1741 From: ROBERT MCKAY Refer#: NONE To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: WHY I SWITCHED Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I switched some years ago from the KVJ to the NKJV. There were a number of reasons for the switch, which was made only after a great deal of prayer and a reading of the NKJV to see 1) how it read (I'm an inveterate reader and a writer and the quality of the English is important to me), and 2) how God used it in speaking to me. Briefly, I found that, 1) while I have no trouble with 1611 English, the NKJV is simply much more proper in terms of twentieth century vocabulary and grammar; and 2) God used (and is using since the switch) the NKJV as much as He had the KJV. But what really broke this camel's back was the NKJV rendering of Isaiah 9:5. In the KJV this verse reads: For every battle of the warrior [is] with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but [this] shall be with burning [and] fuel of fire. In the NKJV, however, it is rendered: For every warrior's sandal from the noisy battle, And garments rolled in blood, Will be used for burning [and] fuel of fire. This is clearly a significant different. The KJV says "confused noise" while the NKJV has it as "noisy battle." I immediately thought that the NKJV had made a translation error. But when I consulted my Strong's Hebrew dictionary, lo and behold! it was the KJV which had erred. At this point I decided that I wouldn't be able to catch every translation error - I simply didn't have the time. It behooved me, therefore, to switch to a version that was more accurate in its renderings, and I did so. This is not to say that the KJV's translators were malicious in their erroneous renderings. They did not, however, have the amount of information that we do today, and they were moreover human and prone to error. And since there is not one Biblical verse that says any translation, much less the KJV specifically, partakes of the exact same kind and degree of inspiration that inhered in the original autographs, it is foolish to think that in instances such as this the KJV is right, and the original text and modern versions are wrong together. Robert -+- | Internet address robert.mckay@thehub.com ___ X QMPro 1.01 11-1111 X I have a life - I'm a Star Trek fanatic. :+{> --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-16-94 (11:42) Number: 1911 From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE To: ROBERT MCKAY Recvd: NO Subj: WHY I SWITCHED Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Robert was saying to All on 15 Mar 94 20:45:04 << RM>I switched some years ago from the KVJ to the NKJV. Any particular reason why you decided to stick with a translation based upon a "less modern" text? I.e., not the NASB or NIV? James>>> * Wave Rider 1.10 # 155 * ... Do you not know? There is only one eternal God. --Isaiah 40:21-26 --- Blue Wave/Max v1.10 [NR] * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-17-94 (23:22) Number: 1916 From: DARYL WESTFALL Refer#: NONE To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: FACTS ON TR AND KJV Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: How did the term "textus receptus" originate? A: It originated through a highly exaggerated statement - actually a publisher's blurb - in the preface to the second edition of the Greek New Testament that was published in Holland in 1633 by the Elzevir Brothers. In this Latin preface they called their book "the text which is now received by all, in which we give nothing changed or corrupted." This is how this latin term textus receptus (text received) came to be applied to a particular text of the Greek New Testament. On the European continent, aside from Great Britain, the first Elzevir edition (published 1624) was for a long time the standard edition of the Greek New Testament. Q: Did the King James translators use their "textus receptus" as the basis for their translation? A: NO. Even the first Elzevir edition was not published until 13 years after the date of the KJV. Q: What was the Greek text on which the KJV New Testament was based? A: It was based on the third edition of the Greek New Testament, issued by the Parisian publisher Stephanus (Latinized form of Estienne) in 1550. Q: Was the text of Stephanus on which the King James Version was based identical with the later "textus receptus"? A: NO. The two differed in 287 places. Q: How many Greek manuscripts agreed exactly with the edition published by Stephanus, and how many agree exactly with the edition published by Elzevir? A: There is no Greek manuscript that agrees exactly with either of these. Both of them are conflate texts. Q: Were the scholars who prepared the King James Version convinced that their text was absolutely correct? A: NO. They recognized the possibility of copyists' errors, and showed this by making marginal notes to variant readings at 13 places. For instance, in Luke 17:36 their marginal note reads: "This 36th verse is wanting in most of the Greek copies." In Acts 25:6, where their text reads: "When he had tarried among them more than ten days," they inserted the following marginal note: "Or, as some copies read, no more than eight or ten days." Q: What was the source of most of the readings found both in the edition of Stephanus and in that of Elzevir? A: Most of the readings in both of these follow the edition of the Greek New Testament prepared by Erasmus, the great enemy of Martin Luther, and published in 1516, the year before the Reformation began. Q: How many manuscripts agree exactly with Erasmus' edition of the Greek New Testament? A: There is no Greek manuscript that agrees exactly with it. Erasmus made it by combining the readings of several manuscripts, none of them earlier than the tenth century A.D., and most of them still later. In some parts of the New Testament he had no manuscript at all, but simply translated from the Latin Bible. Q: To whom was the Greek New Testament prepared by Erasmus dedicated? A: It was dedicated to Pope Leo X, the Pope who later condemned Luther and the Reformation. It is believed that this Pope gave Erasmus' publisher the exclusive right to publish the Greek New Testament for a period of time. Q: Have better manuscripts been discovered than those on which the textus receptus was based? A: During the three and one-half centuries since the King James Version was made dozens of manuscripts have been found that were copied many centuries earlier than any manuscript used by Erasmus. The manuscripts he used were copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies. When material is copied a number of times by hand, extra words and phrases generally find their way into the text in the course of copying and occasionally the eye of a copyist may jump from one word or phrase to a similar one, and thus omit something or perhaps copy it twice. Q: Does this mean that the textus receptus is a harmful text? A: The additions in the textus receptus do not contain any idea that is not taught elsewhere in the New Testament in parts that agree with the earlier manuscripts. The differences consist mainly of repetition or ideas already contained elsewhere in the Scripture. Q: Then why bother to hunt for early manuscripts? Why not simply follow the textus receptus? A: God inspired the manuscripts that came from the hands of the original writers. It is impossible to copy a book of any length without making some mistakes. In the case of the New Testament we have more evidence for determining the text of the original writers than for any other book from ancient times. While there is rarely anything harmful in the textus receptus, if we truly wish to know God's Word, to base our text, as far as possible, on early manuscripts. Q: What IS the situation among early New Testament manuscripts? A: 95% of the known Greek New Testament manuscripts were copied after A.D. 700, more than six centuries after the New Testament was written. Among =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-18-94 (12:16) Number: 1981 From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE To: DARYL WESTFALL Recvd: NO Subj: FACTS ON TR AND KJV Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Daryl was saying to All on 17 Mar 94 23:22:20 << DW>Q: How did the term "textus receptus" originate? < etc. > Excellent stuff. However the post was MONDO long. Could you break her up into 100 line segments? And, could you please upload this as a text file to Pros? I'd like to make it available. James>>> * Wave Rider 1.10 # 155 * ... You were once "intra-uterine matter." --- Blue Wave/Max v1.10 [NR] * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-19-94 (07:58) Number: 1989 From: BERNIE WILT Refer#: NONE To: JAMES WHITE Recvd: NO Subj: FACTS ON TR AND KJV Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -=> James White wrote to Daryl Westfall on 03-18-94 16:09 <=- >> Daryl was saying to All on 17 Mar 94 23:22:20 << DW>Q: How did the term "textus receptus" originate? JW> < etc. > Excellent stuff. However the post was MONDO long. Could JW> you break her up into 100 line segments? And, could you please upload JW> this as a text file to Pros? I'd like to make it available. Yeah, the jet it over to me :) ~Bernie Wilt~ ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Renegade v1-2 Exp * Origin: PIONEER INTERNATIONAL BBS =Mesa, AZ= (602)649-2647 (8:1015/0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-20-94 (23:53) Number: 2167 From: DARYL WESTFALL Refer#: NONE To: JAMES WHITE Recvd: NO Subj: FACTS ON TR AND KJV Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Re: James White's message to Daryl Westfall, * entitled "Facts on TR and KJV" on 03-18-94 11:54. JW> < etc. > Excellent stuff. However the post was MONDO long. Could JW> you break her up into 100 line segments? And, could you please upload JW> this as a text file to Pros? I'd like to make it available. Can do. (BTW: I need the phone number again. I lost it. *looking sheepish*) Daryl ... Baby: Unwritten history; Unfathomed mystery! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Renegade v1-2 Exp * Origin: Cross Roads BBS, Phoenix, Az. (602)482-8577 (8:1015/50) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-21-94 (11:27) Number: 2398 From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE To: DARYL WESTFALL Recvd: NO Subj: FACTS ON TR AND KJV Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Daryl was saying to James on 20 Mar 94 23:53:55 << DW>* Re: James White's message to Daryl Westfall, DW>* entitled "Facts on TR and KJV" on 03-18-94 11:54. JW> < etc. > Excellent stuff. However the post was MONDO long. Coul JW> you break her up into 100 line segments? And, could you please DW>upload JW> this as a text file to Pros? I'd like to make it available. DW>Can do. DW>(BTW: I need the phone number again. I lost it. *looking sheepish*) Oops. 973-3739. James>>> * Wave Rider 1.10 # 155 * ... Zonked by Grace --- Blue Wave/Max v1.10 [NR] * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-23-94 (07:57) Number: 3089 From: STEVEN LUKER Refer#: NONE To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: RIPLINGER Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am very familiar with Ruckman. However, who is Riplinger? What does he teach? Where does he come from? How much influence does he have? Just tell me anything you think is relevant. Steven ... King James: The Official Bible Version of Christian Science. --- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR] * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2 =========================================================================== BBS: Christian Central Date: 03-23-94 (11:53) Number: 3090 From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE To: STEVEN LUKER Recvd: NO Subj: RIPLINGER Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Steven was saying to All on 23 Mar 94 07:57:06 << SL> I am very familiar with Ruckman. However, who is Riplinger? What SL>does he teach? Where does he come from? How much influence does he SL>have? SL>Just tell me anything you think is relevant. It's Gayle Riplinger, a she, not a he (she has lots of degrees in home economics and interior design). She's the author of the single worst book published in 1993, _New Age Bible Versions_ (ultra KJV-Only). James>>> * Wave Rider 1.10 # 155 * ... Whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. --1 Cor. 10:31 --- Blue Wave/Max v1.10 [NR] * Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0) SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2