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ANOTHER GREAT FILE FROM
LEXI'S PLACE 407 656 1601
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Edited Transcript: SPOTLIGHT CO
March 26, 1989
Guest: Dr. David Nutter
Topic: A Psychological Perspective on D&S
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(12,:: Will ::) Well, everyone, the time draws nigh to once more enter the
exciting world of SPOTLIGHT ON D&S, our weekly CO where we discuss topics
of interest and concern to those who express dominance and submission in
their sexuality.
Our host tonight will be Dr. Nutter, but, before I introduce him, a word:
this is a formal CO. If you wish to ask a question, type ? if you wish to
make a comment, type !. End with ga, and please do not type in open unless
I have recognized you in your turn.
Now, everyone, our guest is Dr. Nutter, a psychiatrist and sex therapist
who apparently has had some experience with d&s from the psychological
perspective. Welcome aboard, Dr. Nutter! would you please tell us a bit
about yourself and your experience? ga
(12,Dr. Nutter) Hello, everyone. I am a psychiatrist who specializes in
the area of Human Sexuality. My work consists of treating various sexual
dysfunctions such as erection problems, anorgasmia, lack of sexual desire,
etc. However, I also work in the area of sexual fantasy, sexual offenses,
paraphilias and sexual phobias.
(12,Joel & Allysse) ?
(12,Dr. Nutter) I am also a consulting editor for Human Sexuality on
Compuserve ga
(12,:: Will ::) Thanks, Doctor! I see we already have a question-- Joel
and Allysse, go right ahead. ga
(12,:: Angelique ::) ?
(12,Shiva) ???
(12,Old MRD) ;-)
(12,Joel & Allysse) What do you mean by "work in sexual fantasy?" Do you
consider people who enjoy D&S to be in need of help ? GA
(12,Dr. Nutter) Not usually, it is just a variation of sexual interest. ga
(12,:: Will ::) Alright, let's see... Angelique, you're up next, please
go ahead. ga
(12,Joe C.) ?
(12,Kay B.) ?
(12,:: Angelique ::) Thanks, Will. Dr. Nutter, after we chatted the other
day, I was quite interested in the work you've done in extreme crisis
intervention--particularly with masochists who inflict extreme self-
injury. I was just wondering whether you had an overall theories on the
roots of such behavior and on its treatment? ga
(12,Des J.) ?
(12,john h.) ?
(12,Dr. Nutter) The roots of such behavior, that is a hard question.
However, this particular person came from a strict religious background
where any sexual subject was taboo. It was thought that to her having
sexual fantasies needed to be punished. She did so by cutting herself
repeatedly in the vaginal area with razors. This required multiple
transfusions.
(12,Joel & Allysse) ?
(12,Dr. Nutter) She was also sexually aroused by such behavior despite its
scaring her. She felt unable to stop her behavior and was asking for help.
She was treated with Sexual supressant drugs.
(12,:: Will ::) ?????
(12,Kay B.) ???
(12,Dr. Nutter) This was able to decrease her compulsive
behavior. ga
(12,:: Will ::) Thanks, Doctor. Shiva, you have a question or several? ga
(12,Shiva) Will, several, thanks. Dr. Nutter:
1. Why a sexual suppressant--wouldn't an avenue for for the release of the
sexual energy be more beneficial?
2. Do you find that masochistic behavior of this sort (extreme self-
injury) is equal to the armor the individual has in them, and that the
extremes they go to are to move beyond or pierce that armor?
3. Following the various psychological disturbances that can accompany
growths in consciousness, do you ever find individuals that move towards a
D/s lifestyle or explore it as a way of coming to terms with that growth?
ga
(12,Dr. Nutter) Those are good questions. The first avenue that was tried
was giving permission just to masturbate and then to fantasize rather than
cutting. This did work for about 6 months. However, she again fell into
her old compulsive routine. Many other avenues were explored and despite
excellent insight her behavior remained life threatening.
As an answer to number 2--You are right in that this person had an
extreme of character- logical defenses that strengthened at every
confrontation. It is true that for some people exploring a D/s lifestyle
could result in a freeing of themselves. However, for this person the
attention getting behavior of her compulsions provided too much
reinforcement. ga
(12,Shiva) ?
(12,:: Will ::) Shiva, if your next question is a continuance of the dis-
cussion at hand, please go ahead. If not, we'll go to the next person. ga
(12,Shiva) It is, thanks Will. Dr. Nutter, in this particualr case what,
if any, feelings did this person have during her self-injury other than
compulsion or atonement? ga
(12,Dr. Nutter) Guilt and arousal. She was aroused by the sight of blood
when she cut herself when taking baths. She felt guilty at being so
aroused and would often orgasm and the cycle would continue. ga
(12,:: Will ::) Okay! Joe C., some time ago you had a question? ga
(12,Joe C.) My question is, do you in your practice see patients that want
D/s relationships but don't know how to meet and ask the question of
interest, and what do you or would tell them? And is D/s behavior rooted
in childhood experiences, in your opinion? ga
(12,Dr. Nutter) I really don't get asked that first question as much as
how to bring it up in an existing relationship. Often, yes it is rooted
in childhood experiences. Spanking for instance can be very arousing to a
child. They feel the sense of someone taking control over them and this is
sometimes paired with sexual excitement or humiliation.. ga
(12,Shiva) !
(12,:: Will ::) Kay B., you have a question? ga
(12,Kay B.) Thanks, Will. Dr. Nutter, do you have any suggestions for
couples who differ in their sexual fantasies, One partner finding D/s
enjoyable and necessary, the other aversive? ga
(12,Dr. Nutter) Yes. The partner who has D/s fantasies should listen
closely to the other partner's fantasy. Usually in just about every
fantasy there can be found a D/s component. If the fantasy can be slowly
altered over time to more D/s themes that is, one step at a time, often
the other person will become more accepting of D/s images. ga
(12,:: Will ::) Okay. John H. you had a question? ga
(12,Kay B.) ?
(12,john h.) Dr Nutter; What other "reasons" can you find other than
childhood experiences? I am attracted to D&S more and more (and finally
don't feel so guilty), yet I had a typical suburban childhood. No abuse or
broken home, etc.
(12,Dr. Nutter) Good question. Perhaps a religious up bringing with a lot
of ritualistic behavior and negative sex attitudes. I would be
interested to know what you think? ga
(12,john h.) Well, I didn't have a particularly strict religious up-
bringing, though my Mom did take me and my sister to church each week.
About the only unusual thing (and maybe it's not that unusual) was that my
folks didn't discuss sex. I was told about it by friends. By the time my
folks probably got ready to tell me about the birds and bees, the secrets
had been revealed in health class at school and by friends. ga.
(12,john h. ) What other causes can be identified? ga
(12,Dr. Nutter) It is a question that I find hard to answer. It is one of
the reasons I am interested in D/s psychologically. ga
(12,Will :) Alright... Joel and Allysse, you had a question? ga
(12,Joel & Allysse) Dr Nutter, can you tell us what you see as the
positive aspects of a D/s lifestyle/relationship? I am distressed that the
negative aspects are sometimes over emphasized by the press and other
Doctors. ga
(12,Dr. Nutter) Trust! I feel that trusting and knowing what the other
person wants are very important in a relationship. I think being able to
explore the other person's limits not only increases excitement in the
relationship but adds to a deeper sense of intimacy and self knowledge. ga
(12,:: Will ::) Shiva, you had a comment? ga
(12,Shiva) Yes, Will, thanks. Dr. Nutter, I have seen that the inverse is
also true in D/s behavior--as regards childhood experiences--in that I
have one 'client' who, as a child, had a very weak father, and in all her
adult relationships would end them in anger, because she didn't find a
strong male. Now she is in a D/s relationship and very happy and is
'blossoming' very quickly.
(12,Joel & Allysse) /sen Very interested in having the ability to lock in
dildos in each hole in addition
(12,Joel & Allysse) Damn!
(12,:: Will ::) Guffaw!
(12,Michael) #$%)@*#!
(12,MRD) ;-)
(12, :: Angelique ::) ROFL!
(12,denis) (widening eyes)
(12,Joel & Allysse) (Joel) Sorry for dropping the line!
(12,Joel & Allysse) (Allysse) Joel did it, but I will be in trouble
*smile*
(12,:: Will ::) Quite alright, you're forgiven. Sorry, Shiva--continue.
(12,Shiva) Also, in the power play and exlporation of the unknown we get
to be children in a very 'ADULT' world. ga
(12,Dr. Nutter) I believe that being able to find the child in our
relationships is a very important concept. Thanks for your input. ga
(12,:: Will ::) Okay, next up is (surprise) me! Doctor, you mentioned
sexual suppression drugs-- are these some sort of sedatives or is there a
drug that somehow affects sexuality? ga
(12,Dr. Nutter) There are sedatives that have been used to try and supress
sexual appetite but these do not work well, if at all. I am speaking of
what is called an anti-androgen. This lowers testosterone in the blood
stream and occupies testosterone receptor sites in the brain and supresses
sexual apetite to a controllable degree for some one whose sexual
compulsion is out of control and dangerous to their health. ga
(12,:: Will ::) Thanks, Doc.
(12,Kay B.) ?
(12,:: Will ::) Well then, Kay, please go ahead. ga
(12,Kay B.) Thanks, Will. I have two questions: 1. do anti testo drugs
work in women where estrogens also effect level of libido? and 2. I am
perseverating on the fantasy question. Dr. Nutter, your suggestions to the
couple would work if the D/s partner were D however if s/he were s, then
s/he would be in a bind trying to change the partner--which is more of a D
stance--while convincing the partner to become dominant. ga
(12,Dr. Nutter) First anti- androgens have rarely been used in women. I
only know of 4. A lot more research needs to be done in this area. But of
the 4, 3 of them have felt it helped to control unwanted sexual behavior.
As to the second question, you are right, it is difficult to get a
submissive to be dominant than vice versa. I do believe that even a very
submisive person has some region left where they exercise some control but
it could take who knows how long to find it. ga
(12,:: Will ::) Doc, did you have any questions for us? I know you
expressed an interest in asking. ga
(12,Kay B.) ?
(12,Dr. Nutter) I am interested if any of the rest of you have ideas about
the origins of D/s behavior. ga
(12,:: Will ::) Okay, folks, if anyone wants to tackle it, type ! now. and
I'll call on you. ga
(12,:: Angelique ::) !
(12,Kay B.) !
(12,Joel & Allysse) !!
(12,:: Will ::) Angelique, you first, then Kay. ga
(12,:: Angelique ::) I think it's obvious that d/s orientation originates
in childhood--the real question is the correlation between stimuli and the
development of personality. Why are some children aroused by spankings,
others not? Are there any specific patterns, or is it all merely random?
If you know the work of Alice Miller, you're familiar with her theories
that especially intelligent children are more sensitive to stimuli. She
examines the impact of parental narcissism and violence on gifted
children. ga
(12,:: Will ::) Kay? ga
(12,Kay B.) I think it is erroneous to posit that all patterns of behavior
are set in childhood. There are more recent studies suggesting that we
keep on developing. It is quite possible that we explore and learn and
condition, if you will, new patterns in adulthood. It is quite possible
that some of the changes occur as a function of the environment that we
are in, the reading we are exposed to, etc. We try out new behaviors, find
them pleasurable, get them rewarded, and continue them. ga
(12,:: Will ::) Joel and Allysse, your answer? ga
(12,john h.) !
(12,Joel & Allysse) (Joel), I can remember my feelings starting to develop
in childhood as a response to wanting to be able to control women who
seemed to ignore me. I think my desires originate from that area. GA
(12,Kay B.) !
(12,:: Will ::) John, you had an answer? ga
(12,john h.) Could it be (for the sub) a way to escape pressures? i
remember having bondage fantasies before i knew about sex, but i was under
quite a bit of pressure to excel in school, and now a kind of pressure
job. Though i hate to put it that way--seems like i'm blaming my parents
or something. I have no intention of doing that. The were and are great.
GA.
(12,:: Will ::) Kay, we'll have your comment and then Dr. Nutter can have
his last say. Then we'll wrap up, since our time's up. ga
(12,Kay B.) I wonder how common it is in children to have power fantasies
and how often these are continued into adulthood? ga
(12,Dr. Nutter) It is very common to have power fantasies in childhood. I
believe all children have them. However, some children may have them to an
inordinate degree. In those children it may become a dominant (pun) part
of their personality. ga
(12,:: Will ::) Doctor, have you anything to add before we close down
the CO? ga
(12,Dr. Nutter) Yes! My experience tells me that some people get into
different variations for fun and variety. However, those that come to see
me are trying to stop their behavior because it has become almost an
addiction that may be costing them psychologicaly as well as legally.
Those that feel they are a complete slave (pun) to only one lifestyle and
cannot find anyway out, in my experience, got into completing adolesence.
Thank you for answering my questions. It was a unique and interesting
experience. ga
(12,:: Will ::) For us too, Doc. Many thanks for being with us and my
thanks also to those who asked and answered tonight. And now, long
overdue, I declare this session of SpotLight on D&S to be OVER!!!!! Thanks
again, Dr. Nutter. ga
(12,:: Angelique ::) Thanks. We appreciate your spending time here.
(12,john h.) Thanks Doc.
(12,Joel & Allysse) Thanks Doc.
(12,Michael) Thanks one and all for an interesting CO.
(12,:: Will ::) You're welcome, Michael,
(12,Joel & Allysse) To all of you, good night and happy spanking.